A controversy has erupted over the request by the Rabbi of the Western Wall, Shmuel Rabinovitch, that Pope Benedict XVI take off his cross before a visit to the wall in May. Rabinovitch stated “My position is that it is not fitting to enter the Western Wall area with religious symbols, including a cross. I feel the same way about a Jew putting on a tallit and phylacteries and going into a church.”
Actually, asking someone to remove a cross is more like asking them remove yamaka in a church, which would be an outrageous demand. As someone raised as a Catholic, I would also never ask a Jewish person to remove a tallit or phylacteries.
In 2000, Pope John Paul II prayed at the Western Wall without removing his cross. Rabinovitch has made headlines in recent years by blocking clergy wearing crosses.
In November 2007, he blocked a group of Austrian bishops led by the Archbishop of Vienna, Christoph Schonborn, stating that “crosses are a symbol that hurt Jewish feelings.” That seems less of a view of religion than prejudice. I am married to a Jewish woman as is one of my brothers and they clearly do not view crosses in such a way. I would view a Jewish person praying in a church to be a sign of respect and interfaith connection.
It seems to me that the symbol of intolerance in this controversy is Rabbi Rabinovitz as when he barred access in May 2008 to a group of Irish prelates from both Catholic and Protestant churches. The Rabbi has converted a symbol of faith and tolerance into a place of exclusion and prejudice. I would be interested in hearing particularly from our Jewish bloggers as to whether Rabbi Rabinovitz’s views are shared by the mainstream of the Jewish community.
The politics of the wall has been marred in past years by attacks on Jewish women who seek to hold prayer sessions at the wall, here and here and here.
For the full story, click here
Israel troops admit Gaza abuses
An Israeli military college has printed damning soldiers’ accounts of the killing of civilians and vandalism during recent operations in Gaza.
One account tells of a sniper killing a mother and children at close range whom troops had told to leave their home.
more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7952603.stm
“Would either of us change the others point of view, I think not.
I was trying to establish perhaps a dialog with you in my comments, or maybe common ground, but you choose to score points.”
Because someone doesn’t agree with you does not mean they are trying to score points. You could pick up the ball and discuss it.
“but if it was your relative killed by one how would you feel?”
I answered it rhetorically because that is the argument one always hears. You knew the answer when you asked it. Few in this country know the other side to the story. You said you are Jewish so you perhaps have skin in the game. I don’t. I do have history with the region, however.
Robert,
The problem with “the infinite” is it defines little and makes one’s head hurt. Sort of like contemplating the stars as one lays on their back deep in the desert. I prefer “creative force” but that is also imperfect. How does one define what is if it exists beyond human understanding? My answer has been does something move me viscerally? Do I feel awe? Do I feel a visceral connection with my fellow humans? As you said previously it is beyond words. Having spent a life working in the depths of society, at least as those who are ego driven would have it, I don’t think you attitude is “airy fairey” at all.
“Mike, I respectfully disagree. From an intelligence standpoint, Israel is absolutely our biggest ally in the region. Cooperation with the Israeli government and the Massad are crucial to American interests.”
Doglover,
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this. I think it’s the Saudi’s, but I’m sure we could argue each other to a draw on this and still not convince one another.
“Hezbollah, by the way, grew out of Lebanon, not Syria”
Yes Hezbollah was created in Lebanon, but initiated by Syria.
“Marginalizing was one of Sharon’s goals. He promoted massive building to squeeze the Palestinians out. The West Bank is covered in red roofs. The primary reason: water.”
You won’t find me supporting Sharon anytime. Indeed, I have stated that I didn’t and don’t like the West Bank settlements and felt Begin fast tracked their creation because of his opposition of land for peace and a separte Arab stat. I don’t think the problem though is primarily water, I actually think the truth is worse. The settlements were created as a sop to Fundamentalist Parties, who believe that God decreed that the West Bank should be part of Israel. This kind of pandering enabled Likud to gain control of the government by support of the small religious parties.
“What would you do if you and your family were denied a way to make a living; little or no medical care; food and goods scarce; you were forced to fish in shallow waters where there is raw sewage; your wife had to cross a check point to get to a hospital to give birth and was denied; your children are forced to cross a busy highway to get to school because the Israeli’s closed a road; your family’s old olive orchard was ripped up just because; you were not allowed to visit relatives in another town; you were bombed repeatedly, attacked with tanks and aircraft (which you don’t have) and ?”
My question to you:
“but if it was your relative killed by one how would you feel?
was rhetorical in the sense of how would you have had the Israeli’s deal with the rocket attacks? Your reply was basically argument rather than discussion. I could match you point for point, atrocity for atrocity, but why bother? Would either of us change the others point of view, I think not.
My position on Israel is clear and I think it is a reasonable one, given that I’m a supporter. I was trying to establish perhaps a dialog with you in my comments, or maybe common ground, but you choose to score points. Been there with others
and done that. It’s just not fruitful or interesting to me anymore.
Catholic in greek means universal. The Catholic Church is the universal church started in the year 33 in Jerusalem. It will stand for all time even unto the consumation of the world. Praise be Jesus Christ now and forever!
When we use the term ‘God’ we are already doing a disservice to ourselves and to others. ‘God’ is a closed concept., ie., the chair is here, my computer there and ‘God’ is over there. It makes god into an object within which we can identify in ways that allow a competitive and often violent outcome to arise. A better way, perhaps, is to say ‘The Infinite’. In this way, one cannot say ‘My Infinite’ is better than ‘Your Infinite’. It doesn’t work! And yet, we actually follow this perverted line of thought attaching it to an ethnic form making god into an object with which we can then have a relationship with. A mind-indentification that is an illusion. Monotheism is perhaps our point of solidarity in which there can only be one ‘Infinite’. Our rush to reduce religion and people to an object stands in the way of actually experiencing that which our forefathers who understood religion in a deeper sense knew to avoid. When I had a spiritual experience in Temple, I did not think jewish, christian or along any lines of deliniation. What happened, in my case, is, I was there as a guest of jewish friends of mine and as I witnessed one of them singing, her voice was so beautiful, I was moved to a place beyond words. And I thought I knew her for years and yet, I was so warmly connected with her in that temple in a way in which I had never viewed her before. That connection, without defining it, naming it, labeling it, is such a deep and beautiful feeling that I realized-in that moment-that we are trapped in thought. Trapped in a mind-indentifiction with words wherein we give something a name and then think, ‘oh yes, I know all about that’ when all it is is a word or thought about it. So, when I think in terms of israel, america, the cia or mossad as an entity, I find that I don’t like any of them. At all. They are all equally distorted, archaic and seem to bring so much suffering to people that I cannot justify supporting the us role in iraq or the israeli role in gaza. I know it may sound a bit airy-fairy to those who are perhaps less travelled or less exposed to the violence suffered by so many but I honestly believe that if we are to find a common ground and create a truly rich world for humanity it has to begin with our understanding the way in which the mind works and yield to the fact that we are all pointing to something much larger than mind when we speak of religion. I sound like a clinical psychologist leaking into taoism.,… :))perhaps it fits. Thanks again for the interesting dialogue. I sincerely appreciate it.
Mike, I respectfully disagree. From an intelligence standpoint, Israel is absolutely our biggest ally in the region. Cooperation with the Israeli government and the Massad are crucial to American interests. (The Jordanians are great friends as well.) Israel funded Fatah to counter Hamas. Yes, Arafat was an opportunist, but he eventually acknowledged Israel’s existence. Hamas and Hezbollah are a direct result of Israel’s policies. (Hezbollah, by the way, grew out of Lebanon, not Syria.) So Israel aint’ doing something right. Unless their goal is to keep the Palestinians marginalized.
Marginalizing was one of Sharon’s goals. He promoted massive building to squeeze the Palestinians out. The West Bank is covered in red roofs. The primary reason: water.
You ask what I would do if a Palestinian rocket killed a relative. What would you do if you and your family were denied a way to make a living; little or no medical care; food and goods scarce; you were forced to fish in shallow waters where there is raw sewage; your wife had to cross a check point to get to a hospital to give birth and was denied; your children are forced to cross a busy highway to get to school because the Israeli’s closed a road; your family’s old olive orchard was ripped up just because; you were not allowed to visit relatives in another town; you were bombed repeatedly, attacked with tanks and aircraft (which you don’t have) and are not allowed to escape, etc.
re mespo and the good doc, my hope is that all religions followed the one rule they have in common – The Golden Rule.
“Shermer argues that if our species is to survive we need “us” to be all of humanity. He even goes one step further to argue that eventually it needs to include all life.”
Gyges,
I’ll drink to that. Thank you for mentioning Shermer’s
book, another one to add to my list of future reading.
Mike and Robert,
You are both touching on one of the overarching themes in “The Science of Good and Evil;” as humanity has grown and developed our view of “us” has grown as “Them” has shrank. Originally “us” was me, then my family, etc. Unfortunately, “us” has yet to include everyone. Shermer argues that if our species is to survive we need “us” to be all of humanity. He even goes one step further to argue that eventually it needs to include all life.
Robert,
Excuse me for not responding sooner since both your comments do call attention to an issue that I’ve also been pondering as I’ve grown older. Humanity has been locked into an “us versus them” mindset since at least the time of what we currently conceive as recorded history, Sumer let’s say. This might be categorized as tribalism in the sense of competing society’s.
Tribalism is overlapped by the competition of religion, which at first was identical with tribe, but as a kind of colonialist ethos created tribal amalgams (think imperial Rome but the process began much earlier) religion began to become detached from tribe. Early on I think religion was a means of explaining existence and dealing with the knowledge of death. It was philosophic at heart. However, either the heads of State, or the priests/shamans/whathaveyou realized that it could be used for the attaining and maintaining of power and here we are today.
I state the above to see if we are on the same wavelength, which I assume we are. What does not exist in any of this, as you stated, is a common feeling of being one with all humanity. We are divided by our countries, the illusion of race, our tribes (ethnicity) and primarily by our religions. This is the travesty because one should expect that religion should ground us in our commonality and perhaps in terms of certain prophets that was the intent. However, after all prophets, come those who would bend their words in the service of individual and collective ego. Our world today.
In my own case I am ethnically Jewish and use that religion to celebrate our common humanity. That is why I style myself a deist, since I believe there is some creative spark in the universe, but I believe it is beyond humanity’s powers to quite grasp it. I use Judaism to fuel personal meditations that have led me to feel one with all humans. As such, as Mespo showed above I believe no religion offers the all answers and all improperly understood fuel the hatred and division.
As you aptly put it:
“We all know that there is a larger world in which we live, a world that we cannot explain. We should view ourselves as all living in that matrix, as children ourselves. Connected in the same world, bound by the same fundamental universal laws and in this way seek peace and stability”
What divides us in my opinion is the tendency to organize ourselves into hierarchies, dominated by a few not out of worthiness, but fueled by ego and the will for power. This to me is the next necessary evolutionary step for humans and that is to break those chains of hierarchy and egotism that
separate us and oppress us. I don’t know how in the hell we do that and that knowledge is a part of my consciousness that I suppress as a way of maintaining hope for the future of human progeny, my own included.
You might think then that there is a dichotomy in some of my comments here and on this site supporting Israel and being proud to be Jewish. Perhaps this is so, but then I may identify the problem of the division of humanity, but still feel the strong emotional ethnic call of my tribe. Especially, because I see in the history of its persecution a microcosm of all that is wrong with humanity’s ego driven separation. I’m an underdog loving person and being Jewish emotionally infuses me with identification.
I suspect this is a different experience from your being born a Catholic, since that religion spans many ethnicity’s, but not having the experience it is hard for me to judge the emotional impact. Your statement below resonates with me:
“I sincerely believe the arguments we have all been making for so long, this way or that, give us an illusion of understanding and do not serve us well at all. We need to move beyond words when it comes to humanity”
I fully agree, but how we all get past it is I think a mystery to us both, though each in our own way strives to bridge the gap. While I’ve used it before my religious belief can be summed up by the following from Rabbi Hillel (and many others):
“If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am I’?”
“That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn.”
My comments are intended in a much wider context than the middle east alone. I am trying to put into this thread the basic needs of humanity for all of us, food, water, shelter, the right to live where our forefathers did in peace, the right to practice our culture & beliefs.,.
The spiritual experience that I m attemtping to relate here, I believe, transcends words. Words become paradoxical and lock us into an identification with the mind and the words themselves frequently lead to violence. I sincerely believe the arguments we have all been making for so long, this way or that, give us an illusion of understanding and do not serve us well at all. We need to move beyond words when it comes to humanity, all humanity, and set a base level of existence wherein all people are allowed access to basic needs. Living in a world of identification with mind, and mind alone, allows violence to continue and escalate. We all know that there is a larger world in which we live, a world that we cannot explain. We should view ourselves as all living in that matrix, as children ourselves. Connected in the same world, bound by the same fundamntals universal laws and in this way seek peace and stability. Anything short of that and it appear we are chasing our tail. Yes, I can quote the bible, speak to middle east history and the rest but that method of seeking peace is a false idol indeed. We need a huge shift in the way we view our world. I am hopeful but uncertain if that can happen.
“By making blanket statements essentially suggesting the entire region wants Israel’s extinction, Israel has been able to conjure unreasonable support such as Dr. Wales suggests. To be sure, Israel has enemies and we must support Israel; she is our biggest friend in the region”
Doglover,
The reason I named particular entities so was to ensure I was not making blanket statements. I noticeably didn’t include Jordan, Egypt and Turkey.
Secondly, I don’t believe that Israel is our biggest friend in the ME at least in terms of the ongoing US foreign policy establishment. to me the US has shown, prior to Obama, that the Saudi’s are either our biggest friend, or possibly the US is the Saudi’s biggest vassal. Take your pick. Historically, the Us has served as a check on Israel, rather than its’ protector. The reason of course is oil.
Even in Israel’s war of independence the US maintained an arms embargo. In the 60’s Israel had to by Jets from France, because the US wouldn’t supply them and this was at the same time the Saudi’s and Egyptians were receiving our best Jet products. These are merely two examples, I can give you a lot more. The truth is that Israel is just a tiny nation, surrounded by hostile forces and so has to trod a difficult path. I’ve already stated that they’ve been picking bad leaders, with bad policies to trod that path.
“I find it disingenuous to give a raison d’etre for Israel’s policies because they fear groups Israel, itself, helped create”
No raison d’etre is needed, the fact is that these groups do exist and from the start they have called for Israel’s destruction. However, from their point of view that stance seems reasonable, no matter how unhelpful it is to peace.
Whether it was Israel’s actions that caused these groups formation and hostility to Israel, depends on which side of the you’re coming from. It is incontrovertible, however, that there was a large Islamic movement hostile to Israel’s inception and that tried to destroy it from the beginning.
Again, from their point of view this was desirable and just.
Fatah, a creature of Arafat publicly was said to soften their stance but their charter had and still has a call for the destruction of Israel. Hamas really started as an opponent of Arafat’s corruption and gained power by actually providing social services for its’ people, something Arafat was loath to do. Hezbollah is a direct invention of the Syrian government, always hostile to Israel’s existence and is now also funded by Iran.
As far as your having been in Gaza, I have no doubt that Israel reacted harshly. As I said i’m no fan of their government. However, just how else were they to react with rockets being launched daily. not comparable you might say and that is true, but if it was your relative killed by one how would you feel?
Robert Wales, PhD:
“When did religion become something to be mnopolized by individuals out of the maintream and display such a refusal to at least attempt to make an effort to accomodate competing narratives from their fellow man?”
*******************
I would say at their outset most of the major religions were dominated by individuals out of the mainstream refusing to make an effort to accommodate competing narratives from their fellow man.
Here’s a little sample from the Qur’an:”
“2:113 And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing (true), and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing (true); yet both are readers of the Scripture. Even thus speak those who know not. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they differ.”
And from Exodus:
“23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.”
And from the 1 Nephi 14 of the Book of Mormon:
“14:10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.”
Shall I go on, or have I shown that today’s religious intolerants are philosophically true to their founding scriptures?
MS –
“However, there are two main problems to this and that is that
Fatah, Hamas, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, The UAE and Iraq all
call for the end of Israel.”
This is a misleading statement. By making blanket statements essentially suggesting the entire region wants Israel’s extinction, Israel has been able to conjure unreasonable support such as Dr. Wales suggests. To be sure, Israel has enemies and we must support Israel; she is our biggest friend in the region. But some of their enemies are a direct result of Israel’s own tactics and we should not support Israeli extremism.
Specifically, Fatah evolved from that hard stance. Hamas’ existence is a direct result of Israel’s policies (1987). Hamas was beginning to soften (small gesture, perhaps) from their hard line stance after winning parliamentary elections when Israel bombed the crap out of Palestine. Israel/U.S. have played a complicated game with Hamas and Fatah in this region. Hezbollah (operating in Syria) formed in direct response to the policies/attacks of Israel (1982). I find it disingenuous to give a raison d’etre for Israel’s policies because they fear groups Israel, itself, helped create. This is not to say I condone extremist actions on any side. Iraq remains to be seen. Since the Bush regime essentially handed Iraq over to the Iranians, this may well be the case. Saudi Arabia and the UAE play it both ways. But in the first Gulf War, they were an integral part of the coalition.
Having been to Gaza and witnessed the horrors of the Israeli occupation, I also take issue with the following, “Israel, while far from perfect has a better record of treating its’ indigenous groups, women….” But I will leave that for another time.
In Peace.
It is nice to hear some of the candid comments made here by jewish people about the extreme state of israel. Why then, do we tolerate the inordinate over-reaching by both Tel Aviv and Washington to such an extent that much world is thrown into chaos? I was raised catholic but no one asked me what I wanted to be when I came into this world. Had I been dropped off at a Temple I’d be jewish. Who knew? I have attended many jewish services for friends and their family functions and have worn a shawl and yamulka at those functions. I found that I had some very spiritual feelings as I listened to those services. It was moving and I felt connected to something much larger than either single religion. It was a really enlightening experience for me personally. Perhaps these fellas would benefit from uch an experience as well allowing them to get away from the religious clustering they cling to. It did not make me jewish, it just opened a door for me to see the similarities rather than the differences. The shawl felt warm and I understood how it enveloped me in prayer.
This pope is out of touch in sugesting condoms are problematic. In that case, he needs to visit africa and see the horrors of std’s that could be avoided by way of simple protection. When did religion become something to be mnopolized by individuals out of the maintream and display such a refusal to at least attempt to make an effort to accomodate competing narratives from their fellow man? I think both of these guys make religion look really stupid.
Shamai,
In my opinion you are letting your political views conflate this issue into a conclusion that is not justified. As you can tell by my original comment I have no sympathy for this Rabbi and his aberrant ruling. Further you will note that I dislike Fundamentalist belief of any kind, including Judaism. If you are familiar with my previous comments on JT’s site you will see that I am strongly for the separation of church/state and believe that fundamentalism + politics = a recipe for disaster.
“This is the result of maintaining an exclusivist Jewish state. This Rabinovitch would never have made such an outrageous demand had he not been living in a powerful Jewish ethno-religious state that devalues and belittles all other religions, particularly those of the indigenous Palestinians.”
“Rather, this demand is purely political. It is way for Israeli rabbis to promote Jewish supremacy while boasting of their political and military power to enforce it. It may very well be that this particular rabbi believes in Jewish supremacy, but it is much more significant that he is supported, funded and cheerled by state that promotes these warped values.”
Those two paragraphs pretty much disclose your political view vis-a-vis Israel, I have different views but I’m not interested in debating them with you because it would not profit either of us, nor really be topical to this thread.
The problem, however, is not Israel’s orientation as a Jewish
State, it is Israel’s governmental structure. Because of the way the Knesset is set up and because we are a disputatious people, Fundamentalists Religious parties, with few votes, often derive power by assisting in the making of coalitions
that run the government. Thus they exercise more political power than their support, or numbers would logically give them.
This is rather like the way that Fundamentalist Christians in the U.S. exercise power beyond their numbers. It is also the way that Islam has been pushed to extremes by a fanatic minority that does not really represent mainstream Islamic thought. By the same token it is why extreme Hindu groups are succeeding in exhorting hatred of India’s indigenous Muslims.
“If we want an Israel that is really true to the best of Jewish values, it cannot be exclusively Jewish. It is a strange but manifestly true irony that for Judaism and Israel to become really compatible, Israel must become a democratic, equalitarian and tolerant place.”
Israel is surrounded by States that are Islamic by law and do not allow religious freedom for other faiths except as “vassals” to Islam, that violently oppress women and homosexuals and that are undemocratic to the extreme. Your solution of a pluralistic State will lead to the dismemberment and destruction of Israel. This is because of population growth and would also lead to a surge of Fundamentalist Christian emigration to get in on the ground floor of apocalypse.
That may appeal to you, but it doesn’t appeal to me. I have stated before that to me the only solution is to demolish the settlements and evacuate the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. I have also unequivocally stated my disdain for Netanyahu, Likud, Begin and others of that ilk. However, 7 decades of ongoing attacks by ones’ neighbors does engender anger, aggression and angst that are understandable and so demagogues unfortunately do get elected.
However, there are two main problems to this and that is that
Fatah, Hamas, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, The UAE and Iraq all
call for the end of Israel. The second being that, as in Gaza and the Hamas rockets, the surrounding states and factions like to keep up the heat and are just as reluctant to talk peace.
Finally, the colonialist appellation that you use does indicate your political views, which I’m sure you’ll agree are not those of a neutral observer. The entire ME has historically been the territory of colonialists. The West moved in after the fall of the Ottoman Empire in WWI. The States in the ME are all pretty much artificial, so “colonialist” is a weighted term based on whose ox is being gored. While I decry some policies of current and prior Israeli governments and never supported the settlements, I think your characterization of the people and policies of Israel are over the top. Israel, while far from perfect has a better record of treating its’ indigenous groups, women and people of all sexual orientation than any other ME state and better than perhaps 75% of all this world’s countries. Is this acceptable to me, no it isn’t, but then perhaps 95% of all the world’s countries, including the US don’t meet my standards of good government and decency.
The comments of Mike S. and Shamai Leibowitz are thoughtful and thought provoking. The surge of fundamentalist ideology around the world is the greatest danger we collectively face. The right to adorn one’s body with the symbols of one’s beliefs ought not to be a subject even worthy of intelligent discussion.
This is the result of maintaining an exclusivist Jewish state. This Rabinovitch would never have made such an outrageous demand had he not been living in a powerful Jewish ethno-religious state that devalues and belittles all other religions, particularly those of the indigenous Palestinians. In other words, I don’t see this as a religious demand (though I am no authority on the Jewish halakha, I highly doubt the religious justification for such a demand). Rather, this demand is purely political. It is way for Israeli rabbis to promote Jewish supremacy while boasting of their political and military power to enforce it. It may very well be that this particular rabbi believes in Jewish supremacy, but it is much more significant that he is supported, funded and cheerled by state that promotes these warped values. People should realize that these intolerant and infuriating measures are a direct result of the continued attempt to maintain a “Jewish” state at the expense of the human civil and religious rights of Palestinians, and the only way to change this dynamic is to vocally support the transformation of Israel into one, democratic, secular, ethnically-diverse state.
As I’ve written in my Feb. 17 blogpost titled The threat of interfaith prayer:
“Israel has become a country so scared of equality and coexistence to the extent it represses those very groups that could actually benefit it and change its destructive dynamic.
If we want an Israel that is really true to the best of Jewish values, it cannot be exclusively Jewish. It is a strange but manifestly true irony that for Judaism and Israel to become really compatible, Israel must become a democratic, equalitarian and tolerant place. To transform Israel, the colonialists, racists and segregationists need to be boycotted and removed from power. They must be replaced with the type of people – Jewish, Muslim and Christian – that appear in the above-captioned picture.”
(You have to read the original blogpost to understand the last sentence.)
The first time I visited the Wall, the elderly ladies made me hide my cross necklace before I was allowed to touch the wall. I was stunned. At least they’re consistent, I suppose.
I wore a cross in Israel, because I was accosted for being Jewish by Palestinians and taunted for being Palestinian by the Israelis. Being neither (I’m of Greek ancestry), I decided to wear the cross my parents had given me. Peace at last – until the Wall, that is.
The Rabbi is a schmuck. My daughter, who I’ll match with his piety at any time was segregated in her prayer at the Wall, while she lived in Israel. The Rabbi represents Fundamentalist Judaism, which is no more nor less ridiculous than their Christian and Islamic counterparts.
The Hasidim mentioned in the attacks on women stories are a cult from 18th Century Europe that originally followed a religious mystic called the Baal Shem Tov. They do not represent normative Judaism, but they do have a following among Jews who view only the external piety. In the 70’s I was a NYC liaison to one of the largest of the various Hasidic sects and from what I saw they are cult like in operation.
We Jews when we stray into the fundamentalist firmament can be every bit as wacky as any other religion. I guess that’s what religious freedom is about. It would be nice though if Fundamentalists of all stripes allowed the same live and let live attitude.