A controversy has erupted over the request by the Rabbi of the Western Wall, Shmuel Rabinovitch, that Pope Benedict XVI take off his cross before a visit to the wall in May. Rabinovitch stated “My position is that it is not fitting to enter the Western Wall area with religious symbols, including a cross. I feel the same way about a Jew putting on a tallit and phylacteries and going into a church.”
Actually, asking someone to remove a cross is more like asking them remove yamaka in a church, which would be an outrageous demand. As someone raised as a Catholic, I would also never ask a Jewish person to remove a tallit or phylacteries.
In 2000, Pope John Paul II prayed at the Western Wall without removing his cross. Rabinovitch has made headlines in recent years by blocking clergy wearing crosses.
In November 2007, he blocked a group of Austrian bishops led by the Archbishop of Vienna, Christoph Schonborn, stating that “crosses are a symbol that hurt Jewish feelings.” That seems less of a view of religion than prejudice. I am married to a Jewish woman as is one of my brothers and they clearly do not view crosses in such a way. I would view a Jewish person praying in a church to be a sign of respect and interfaith connection.
It seems to me that the symbol of intolerance in this controversy is Rabbi Rabinovitz as when he barred access in May 2008 to a group of Irish prelates from both Catholic and Protestant churches. The Rabbi has converted a symbol of faith and tolerance into a place of exclusion and prejudice. I would be interested in hearing particularly from our Jewish bloggers as to whether Rabbi Rabinovitz’s views are shared by the mainstream of the Jewish community.
The politics of the wall has been marred in past years by attacks on Jewish women who seek to hold prayer sessions at the wall, here and here and here.
For the full story, click here
In a line by line refutation CCD, I challenge you to tell where in this article heterosexuality is compatible with pedophilia, and that pedohiles are in fact heterosexual in orientation. Quite the contrary, if anything, it alludes to the possibility that links could be made to homosexuality and pedohpilia, when it is male on male.
mespo,
You’re batting 1000% BTW now is the time for your all star to get his rips in at the batting cages. Mine don’t have any eligibility left.
CCD:
Oops CCD you beat me to the link. Sorry I should have read your comment more closely.
Mespo77 Nowhere does this article state that pedophilia is a heterosexual problem! The only thing you seem to excel at is deception. The article is open to much interpretation as most inexact sciences like psychology are. The psychologist states that caution must be adhered to when a person jumps to the conclusion that all pedophilia is due to homosexual tendencies. Nowhere does it say that pedophilia is an outgrowth of heterosexuality or celibacy. Pull your head out!
CCD:
“You are as deceptive and sly as your blog-mate mespo77.”
***************
Rejoice that we have broken the gregory code so that we know that the words “deceptive and sly,” are now synonymous with “clear and convincing.” Also if I read his Rosetta Stone properly, “baffle them with bologna,” means present cogent evidence that gregory cannot refute and thus must resort to invective to counter. Primitive languages are loads of fun!
Allow me to clarify. The expression stepping in quicksand relates to conversing with someone whose mind is closed and their awareness of the world we live in is low. Read the link “Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation” Try expanding your brittle awareness just a bit.
Lol at myself. That brass band is really, really loud, how could I miss it!
Murry, Bertram and the third guy whose name I can never remember, help pull me out!
CCD:
gregory’s knowledge of psychology is perfectly consistent with his knowledge of theology and history. Being unable or unwilling to research, he, like many in his religion, retreat to some ancient bromide to support their bigoted attitude. Here’s the science from a paper at UCal-Davis:
“Reflecting the results of these and other studies, the mainstream view among researchers and professionals who work in the area of child sexual abuse is that homosexual and bisexual men do not pose any special threat to children. For example, in one review of the scientific literature, noted authority Dr. A. Nicholas Groth wrote:
Are homosexual adults in general sexually attracted to children and are preadolescent children at greater risk of molestation from homosexual adults than from heterosexual adults? There is no reason to believe so. The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual (Groth & Gary, 1982, p. 147).
In a more recent literature review, Dr. Nathaniel McConaghy (1998) similarly cautioned against confusing homosexuality with pedophilia. He noted, “The man who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically not sexually interested in older men or in women” (p. 259).
This well known lack of a linkage between homosexuality and child molestation accounts for why relatively little research has directly addressed the issue. Proving something we already know simply isn’t a priority. Indeed, a commentary that accompanied publication of the 1994 study by Jenny et al. in Pediatrics noted that debates about gay people as molesters “have little to do with everyday child abuse” and lamented that they distract lawmakers and the public from dealing with the real problem of children’s sexual mistreatment (Krugman, 1994).”
The entire paper can be seen at:
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html
Now I understand it, when a priest molests a boy he is really a heterosexual in orientation and if he molests a female he is clearly a homosexual! Thankyou CCD for clearing up this ambiguity.
CCD, you need to go back and read your own article. Nowhere does it state that pedophile males are heterosexual in orientation! You are as deceptive and sly as your blog-mate mespo77. I should realize this of course. Law 101 teaches “you all” that when you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with Bologna! Whatever works I guess, since it is clear you can’t be intellectually honest with me.
The truth is a sobering reality.
I did step quicksand, whoops. Won’t be the last time.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html
Gregory what can you tell me about the Blue Devils Vs the Wildcats?
Mespo,
Amen to you brother. I think the word hypocrisy comes to mind when one speaks of the Catholic Church and its disciplining of its own priests and Bishops.
My point exactly gregory 2, in fact if the Church had tossed out these gay priests and never ordained them in the first place, people like Cardinal Baloney, would not have had to spend over half a billion dollars to confront this horrific problem. Rampant homosexuality and pedophilia are some of the burgeoning fruit that Mike A. needs to know has ripened since Vatican II. Mespo 77, go back to your playstation game! Your logic CCD says a man who molests boys is really a “heterosexual”, not a homosexual. Dosn’t this seem just a little “paradoxical” to you CCD!
CCD, your head is in a deeper pile of sand than Mike A. Studies know where support this opinion. The pedohile act between an adult male and prepubescent or teen male does not mean that the act is not homosexual. You should spend some time at a seminary or religious community of men for a weekend, and you then tell me that homosexuality is not rampant and a seriously pervasive problem in the Church. You are deluded beyond imagination!
I am amazed at the ease with which the pious gregory moves away from the Pope’s recognition of delusional, anti-Semitic, holocaust denying bishops into the ever-relevant St. Margaret Clitherow. Proof once again that to the religious, all sins in furtherance of the faith are no sins at all.
Gregory,
Studies show that pedophiles are overwhelmingly heterosexual.
Dante reserved the lowest circle for those who violated trust….
popes, cardinals, bishops, priests and brothers.
Religious zealots Gregory are headed for the Eighth Ring, Bolgia 8,
set aside for false advisors.
Mike A., the very act of pedophilia is homosexual, when a priest molests a boy. And as I have stated over ninety percent of molested children in the Church have been males. Do you see the bankruptcy of your postion?
Gregory:
how many RC Priests are gay? I have read anywhere from 35% to 75%. Are gays the predominant problem or is it a mix?
I dont think you can say that just because a priest is gay he is a pedophile but if you have a large body of gay priests then most of the incidents are going to involve homosexuals. What is the rate of pedohilia in the overall population among gay and straight men? and also among just gay men and just straight men. From the little I know about pedophiles they do not change and are just wired wrong. They should be locked up and kept away from children once they have acted on the impulse.
The church should have locked these priests up immediately upon knowledge of the crime. It is understandable why they did not, an organization always will protect it’s self even to it’s own detriment.
The answer to this problem is to pre-screen people that may tend toward pedophilia whether they be straight or gay and not allow them to become priests. I think the RCC is going to have to face reality one day and allow men to have families and be priests. The RCC is into natural law to a point and the 10th century problems with property is not a valid point anymore.
The reason that most Saints are Saints is because they were sinners first. If you dont sin how can you become a Saint?
When I choose to champion the heroic saints in my Church I think of St. Charles Lwanga, St. Peter Chanel, St. Margaret Clitherow, and St. John Fisher. The entire Roman Calendar is replete with these noble, humble, self sacrificing servants of Our Lord. The Berrigans and there ilk, are nowhere to be found in the hagiography of the Church.
You speak as if you were a former priest. Were you? If so, why did you leave the priesthood? I suspect you were a former priest or brother in the Church. Am I right Mike A.? Are you referring to the notorious Berrigans? If memory serves, me one or both are convicted felons and were on the FBI ten most wanted list for treason. When I think of the many noble and heroic members of the Church Triumphant, thankfully the notorious Berrigans do not come to mind. Coincidentally, you should go back and rethink your position on celibacy being the cause of rampant pedophilia in the Church. Pedophilia usually follows a chronic course, especially in those attracted to males. The recidivism rate for individuals with Pedophilia involving a preference for males is roughly twice that for those who prefer females. Pedophilia is not an outgrowth of celibacy. Nothing found in any study on paraphilias and sexual deviance supports this claim of yours. You write eloquently, but when the content is analyzed it becomes vapid quickly.