After refusing to release even unclassified materials as Vice President, former Vice President Dick Cheney is now calling for the release of all interrogation reports to show that torture works. This is the same Cheney who supported the denial of such evidence to courts and criminal defendants and Congress. However, now that calls for prosecution for war crimes are increasing, Cheney suddenly believes in transparency in government. In the meantime, Obama has reversed earlier statements and indicated that he will not rule out prosecutions of Bush officials. We discussed this latest development on this segment of MSNBC Countdown.
“One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn’t put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified. . . .I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven’t announced this up until now, I haven’t talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country. . . .And I’ve now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was, as well as to see this debate over the legal opinions.”
This is part of the new strategy where torture is defended because it works. This is the same argument that I faced yesterday in a debate on NPR with Professor Robert Turner, click here. The media is being sucked into this false debate, debating how successful the torture program was in extracting information. Under domestic and international law, we are not allowed to torture people regardless of how successful it might be. In the same fashion, we are not allowed to beat and torture criminal defendants like Dirty Harry with post hoc rationalizations. International treaties and cases expressly reject such claims.
In his latest round of interviews, <a href=”click here.”>Cheney added “I don’t think we’ve got much to apologize for.” As we have previously discussed on the air, Cheney is the walking example of the dangers of Obama’s policy of blocking any investigation, click here. Not only is Cheney walking around casually discussing war crimes, he is wholly unrepentant. He and others are now trying to corrupt this country’s values even further by defining the issue of war crimes as to whether they resulted in actionable intelligence.
For the Fox News interview, click here.
justmy2 1, April 24, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Next time, ask Chris Matthews if he would agree to Jessica Lynch being tortured?
I have never written you before, but this is visceral. The next time anyone makes some type of moral equivocation about torture, I beg you to ask them if Jessica Lynch, captured in a time of war, with potential information regarding the security of Iraq, should have been tortured. Ask them why not?
It is sickening to allow pundits to not be forced to admit they are only for torture when Americans are not involved. They need to be forced to come to grips with the ramifications of their equivocation.
I beg you, as someone with a national outlet to force major pundit to either admit they are for torture, or admit they are hypocrites.
Good luck in your future appearances.
The above was indicative of what I have seen. Unless this is a test from G-d and I failed miserably.
Forgive me father for I have sinned.
Another intellectually stimulating and non-responsive post.
I guess the anal one came back only to try and cause a angina attack only to realize that he’s nothing more than a vagina And he can’t understand that he can’t do the Vagina Monologues to well either.
And by the way my “argument” is a simple one: Look at the actual law before you conclude someone is guilty of something; The modus operandi (wow big word) on here is “I hate Cheney and I know torture when I see it, so they are guilty, don’t confuse me with the law” or the other one “we are a nation of laws, the Constitution and due process, we must protect these insurgents rights…but Cheney is Guilty, Bush is Guilty, we don’t need to look at the law..throw them in jail” The intellectual dishonesty and contradiction is evident just in the posts themselves.
And spare me the “to wit” crap. You have already put Esq after your name, I am not impressed, and I can read simple english. Nunc pro tunc, quid pro quo, sui generis, arguendo, give me a break.
Sorry Bob, I thought we were talking about legal prosecution for “torture”, and you invoke a Webster’s dictionary meaning? You thought I meant there was no entry for the word torture in Webster’s? See Bob, its called context, we were talking about the LEGAL prosecution of someone for torture. Thank you for advising me that its in the dictionary. Should they use Webster’s for jury instructions? Is that what you are advocating? That was actually a stupid comment for someone with Esq, after their name and likes to advertise it.
And your comment about a “question of fact for the jury” is a little puzzling. You mean the jury decides whatever they want to decide is “murder” in a murder case? Hmmm they aren’t given jury instructions and the prima facie elements of the crime (e.g. a definition), e.g. If you found the defendant 1) took the life, killed, another ..etc. They don’t use “common vernacular” useage, and they are advised as to the elements of the law, which included the elements of the charge. Which by the way Bob is not read from Webster’s.
Actually, your entire post, while attempting to be condescending was pretty much stupid, except for the parts in quoting me.
By the way, did anyone of you know that the statute regarding torture is a specific intent statute? Aww heck I won’t want to confuse you with the law because Bush is guilty Bush is Guilty, Cheney is a traitor Cheney is a traitor, we know torture when we see it, we know torture whe we see it…..some of you are attorneys? Bob its against the law to practice without a license.
That ball is jacked out/a/here, bye bye, DOWNTOWN!
Sports fans an off the bench, low inside, 2-0 change up, ejected.
Cleared the park outside wall by 60 feet!
Scott Rumph:
“Once again “torture”, is a legal conclusion without fact.”
Wrong; torture is a defined term existing outside legal vernacular.
To wit:
1 a: anguish of body or mind : agony b: something that causes agony or pain
2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3: distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument (e.g. the way you present the definition of torture as a “legal conclusion”)
“Don’t you realize when you are talking of a prosecution and using that word, you have to have a legal definition of what that means?”
Wrong again; not only do the acts in question align with past torture prosecution precedent, but it’s also a question of fact for a jury.
“Cheney was guilty of torture, Cheney was guilty of torture, Cheney is a traitor, Cheney is a traitor; I said it, therefore it is fact.”
To you it’s fact; to me it’s an allegation to be proved in a court of law.
“Unfortunately for you, and again thanks to laws and the Consitution, if you say many times it doesn’t become legal fact.”
Much like your “argument.”
AY,
When I read your comment about your son my stomach churned and a tear formed in my eye. As a parent myself I can so empathize with what you must be feeling, but at the same time I know that I can’t even begin to approximate in my viscera what it is you’re going through.
I don’t know what the facts of your son’s situation was, nor am I inquiring. I had an experience though with Ambien a few months ago that for whatever it matters I’d like to share with you. Having a severe heart condition and at time having trouble sleeping due to a tendency to ruminate, my Doctor recommended Ambien to me. It did help me sleep but I began to notice a feeling of being off in the days that followed. This feeling reached its’ height five days after beginning with the drug and found me in deep depression, crying to my wife that my life was over and I was going to die very soon.
My wife was shocked because I am usually one of the most upbeat and optimistic people you could meet. She reflected this back to me and insisted that I discontinue the Ambien.
Within a day I was back to myself.
As a trained Psychotherapist of 64, with a good deal of Psychiatric experience and smarts, the effects of this drug snuck up on me and became overwhelming in a way that I wasn’t even aware of its’ happening. I can only imagine its effect on younger people. I offer this not as healing balm since you know better than I, that your healing will be a long process, that in truth will never end. I offer it only to help you realize that this is an overused and dangerous drug, whose prescription is not well thought out by Physicians influenced by drug company detail people. Drugs such as these should not be allowed to advertise.
“Well I apologize for the dribble and the renal Fool. But he was getting annoying. He knows what he is doing and is enjoying changing the target once you get close to the answer to the question he asked.”
No need to apologize AY, I’ve spent my morning reading all of the posts and replies to this guy and you have hit the mark. He is an intellectually dishonest, but capable writer, who takes pains to state his opinions obliquely and sneaks in attacks with feigned innocence. Ultimately a bore with a paucity of interesting content.
Anon:
I am sorry to hear about your son, I can only imagine. Hopefully time will dull the pain and you will be left with fond memories. My father died when I was 7 and from that experience I can tell you, you will never get over the loss and it leaves a hole in your heart but you will mend.
AY:
My sincerest condolence on the loss of your boy.
“Life is good today,” yes sir, agreed.
bRon98,
Buddha hath stated that he might be trolling the forum. But if we do not see him it because he will be on Vacation.
Buddha:
watch out for the roaming Nome, I hear Scott Rumpf has paid him to put a hit on you.
Thank you all. Thank you all. Life is good today.
And on that note, I bid the regulars a good evening and notify you all I may not be posting at all next week as I am going on vacation as of Saturday. I’d say hold down the fort, but I know JT’s lounge is in good hands.
AY,
Fight the good fight.
See you guys when I get back if I don’t get in tomorrow.
Buddha, let me know what she thinks!
I also have a pumpkin cake with cream cheese frosting recipe
I still make, even though chocolate with white buttercream is my ‘fav’.
—–
For mespo, in the AM:
The Original Morning Glory Muffins
Earthbound Farm’s culinary consultant, Pam McKinstry, created these muffins in 1978 for her eponymous restaurant on Nantucket Island. The recipe was first published in Gourmet Magazine in 1981, and in 1991 it was chosen as one of the magazine’s 25 favorite recipes from the past 50 years. These muffins have a great shelf life and actually taste better a day after baking, when the flavors have melded. Store them at room temperature, covered, for up to 3 days, or freeze them for up to 2 months.
Makes 16 muffins
1 1/4 cups sugar
2 1/4 cups all-purpose flour
1 tablespoon ground cinnamon
2 teaspoons baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup shredded, sweetened coconut
3/4 cup raisins
1 large apple, peeled and grated
8 ounces (1 cup) crushed pineapple, drained
2 cups grated carrots
1/2 cup coarsely chopped pecans or walnuts
3 large eggs
1 cup vegetable oil
1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
Position a rack in the lower third of the oven and preheat to 350 degrees F.
Sift or whisk together the sugar, flour, cinnamon, baking soda, and salt into a large bowl. Add the coconut, raisins, apple, pineapple, carrots, and nuts, and stir to combine.
In a separate bowl, whisk the eggs with the oil and vanilla. Pour into the bowl with the dry ingredients and blend well.
Spoon the batter into muffin tins lined with muffin cups, filling each to the brim. Bake for 35 minutes or until a toothpick inserted into the middle comes out clean. Cool muffins in the pan for 10 minutes, then turn out onto a rack to finish cooling.
AY,
I am so sorry to hear about your son. I am also glad that you are getting back to work. Hang in there.
That vein twitching in your forehead yet?
And I’ll tell you once more: MY GOAL WAS NOT TO DEFEAT YOUR ARGUMENT BUT REVEAL YOUR TRUE NATURE AS A TROLL DEFENDING CRIMINALS WITHIN OUR GOVERNMENT.
I wouldn’t waste my time with your specious wonk bullshit arguments. You came in with a clear agenda. You got smacked down. Run along.