The Pew Forum has released an interesting poll that the more religious Americans, the more likely they are to support the use of torture against terrorism suspects.
The majority of people who attend religious services at least once a week support the use of torture either “often” or “sometimes.” Fifty-four percent embraced torture while only 42 percent said they would “seldom or never” use torture.
Only twenty-five percent said that torture would ever be justified. Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians were the least likely to endorse torture while evangelicals were the most likely to accept it.
There is in fact a great deal of beatings in the Bible. For example, “And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.” ~ Deuteronomy 25:2.
Indeed, the Bush administration may have gotten its technique of putting people in a small box while dropping in insects from Revelation: “And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.” ~ Revelation 9: 5-6
For the full story, click here.
AY
Thanks for that link. It was both enlightening and disturbing (mostly disturbing). The depths of intellectual ignorance to which some people deliberately take themselves is amazing. I never heard that quote you attributed to GWBush. If it’s accurate, it is a scary illustration of just how dangerously mentally unstable that sicko is.
Gyges,
You’ve said too much.
AY,
Welcome to the club, we have a secret meeting once a month to plot how we can take over America. We want it to become as godless as possible so that the God we don’t believe in will destroy it. We also get together with the Elders of Zion, the Illuminati, and the Freemasons every spring for big conference, and Ultimate Frisbee tournament.
makarios
Of course . . . . I think what this one shows is that atheists would rather thousands of innocents be killed by terroists than find out ahead of time what the terroists are planning.
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How to Spot Atheists and Report Them to the FBI
“I don’t know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.”
-President George Bush
Link: http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0503/atheists.html
If George is for it then I have to be against it. Damn, I am converting today. To become an Atheist of Course. Please pray for my soul to be redeemed
Of course surveys are open to many possible interpretations. I think what this one shows is that atheists would rather thousands of innocents be killed by terroists than find out ahead of time what the terroists are planning.
Buddha,
You left out Faust, Frankenstein, Pandora’s box, most of the stories of H.P. Lovecraft, Shivers, Event Horizon, etc.
I view that type of story as more of a tapping into the fear of the unknown and a prohibition of seeking knowledge than as a warning over the vagueness of language. I favor the argument that the “priest\shaman” class exploited that fear to help secure their own power. Early religion was basically worshiping the gods of the gaps, any exploration into the true nature of the world made those gaps shrink, and so limited the domain of the elect. History seems full of examples of illiteracy being used to keep people subjugated. Thus the message is “the low should keep their thoughts low.” I suggest that this is a much more likely and simple explanation for the Faust archetype than what you suggest.
That’s not to argue that your thoughts on the written word in general are wrong, just that I think your take on those stories doesn’t take a wide enough sample into account.
I would say that religion falls into the category of a “tool.” As you’ve said, tools are not inherently evil, just the use to which they’re put.
I mentioned a week or so ago that I thought fundamentalism tends to attract those who need a place in a hierarchy, I think this study fits well into that idea. There is an ultimate GOOD (the highest spot in the hierarchy) and serving that could never be bad; torture is justified if it serves that good.
Former Federal LEO
Teabagger…lol
Ha!
The only reason whoolie*Bacon* aint postin’ is ’cause he is liein’ or layin’ low cause he’s feared them govmit’ officials is affer him for startin’ the swine flew, or floo, er whatever…
It was based on questioning of 742 whites …
If you can draw conclusions about millions of Americans based on that … well … imagine all the people …
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1210/torture-opinion-religious-differences
Anonymously Yours
We are good.
Sir,
No one was disagreeing with you at all. I presumed that your logic was sound in that “Circular Logic” can be used to justify a means to an end. You stated it well and I was commending you for it. If you have taken offense. I sir apologize.
Sent from my windows based phone=
Anonymously Yours
Thanks for the critique but I can get all of that I want in a Linux forum where all the hotshots attack the newbe’s.
Recently there has been a lot of dumping on Jill and Patti C. It isn’t necessary and people shouldn’t receive a bunch of crap because they state an opinion.
I rarely post here because I find this group of people to be very intelligent and there input is excellent and they cover most topics with some deep insight.
Hank G:
“I wonder if the constant imagery of the suffering that Jesus was supposed to have suffered has desensitized them to the suffering of torture victims.”
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That’s a prescient comment and worthy of some thought. Note the Bible’s incessant praise of suffering and scorn at pleasure. Any reason lust, gluttony, and pride are deadly sins, but torture isn’t? Maybe you’re on to something.
I am not a mental health professional, but I did grow up attending a very conservative, evangelical church. I wonder if the constant imagery of the suffering that Jesus was supposed to have suffered has desensitized them to the suffering of torture victims.
I’ve heard sermons where the minister spent 15-20 minutes describing in excruciating detail what it is like to be whipped with a scourge, have thorns pressed into your head, and crucified. After all that, some water up the nose might seem pretty minor.
Actually this doesn’t surprise me at all.
whooliebacon
Are some now trying to sell the notion that the party of Jesus justifies torture…
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One can infer that is the case while you are reasoning with yourself. Circular Logic.
http://www.light-to-dark.com/2008_A.D..html
Anon.:
““Fred Flintstone and his friend Barney Rubble were members of the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes Lodge No. 26. A high ranking elected position within this organization is Grand Poobah or Grand Imperial Poobah. Poobah is a title of respect and often is linked to might in a role.”
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Well it started a few threads ago, when I compared myself to some Imman and figured it was akin to the pompous character in “The Mikado,” with the same name. I do fancy membership with Fred and Barney so yaba daba do, indeed.
Buddha:
“…Prometheus was chained to that rock for the offense of bringing fire to man, but the Gods were more offended and concerned that he brought man knowledge and with that the knowledge of language. Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat from the Tree of Knowledge…”
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As usual, an elegant point about the true nature of religion. Is is designed to keep Man obsequious and downtrodden or uplift him from the banality of his existence? Wonderful subjects for discussion as usual at Blawg No. 1. Hurry on back there is much to discuss and learn.
It would appear that Mr. Rove and Mr. Bush have sold the idea that the Republican party, and only the Republican party, is the party of Jesus…if you aren’t Republican then you are against Jesus.
Are some now trying to sell the notion that the party of Jesus justifies torture…