The Pew Forum has released an interesting poll that the more religious Americans, the more likely they are to support the use of torture against terrorism suspects.
The majority of people who attend religious services at least once a week support the use of torture either “often” or “sometimes.” Fifty-four percent embraced torture while only 42 percent said they would “seldom or never” use torture.
Only twenty-five percent said that torture would ever be justified. Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians were the least likely to endorse torture while evangelicals were the most likely to accept it.
There is in fact a great deal of beatings in the Bible. For example, “And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.” ~ Deuteronomy 25:2.
Indeed, the Bush administration may have gotten its technique of putting people in a small box while dropping in insects from Revelation: “And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.” ~ Revelation 9: 5-6
For the full story, click here.
Joan and Larry,
Their hearts were connected and they were all saved. Listen to my voice, here my words in the wind, my thoughts echo in the silence of your prayer. Come through me and enjoy the spendor that I offer you. The word is love. Love for the terrorist, love for the torturer, love for each other. If you don’t believe in me, at least believe in what I say.
Jesus
Larry,
You are an imbecile. You and your kind really burn me up. I am much much much smarter than you! Torture is bad – it really is that simple. Terrorism is not bad but just misunderstood. You can’t judge people you don’t know. If they are blowing things up, then they must have an issue that needs to be addressed. They are just crying out for help. They are doing it out of love and we must be doing something wrong that they don’t agree with. When you die you go to heaven. It is a much better place than this. Therefore terrorists are doing you and us all a favor. Up with terrorism! Got to go, I smell something burning.
Joan
Hi, I’m Larry of Nazareth. A great, great, great, etc…. decendent of Jesus going many years back. It can be construed as torture reading this self deluding gibberish from intellectually superior beings. You must be GODS and thus my little brain is unable to understand your seemingly simple logic. Let me see,”Torture is bad because it hurts someone.” Would therefore terrorism be bad because it hurts (or intends) to hurt someone (thousands)? If we need to stop torture then do we need to stop terrorism? Would the self-fascinated, awe-of-self, brain trust, that lives on this blog, share how they intend to stop the following:
1) Torture
2) Terrorism
3) Yourselves
Hey almost forgot this one:
Beware the man of one book.
–Latin Proverb
Buddha:
A waffle with cream cheese.
on another topic, you might be interested to know that I have been having some discussion with some objectivists on the topic of torture and it is very interesting that not one of them has a compelling argument for it. I actually thought that someone might have a cogent argument but so far no. The “best” one was some guy saying that it was the torturees fault because he could have prevented it by just providing the information that the “interogator” was “requesting”.
I must say that this is and is not a very complex issue. It is almost simplistic in some respects 1’s and 0’s, black and white, right and wrong. The complexity is in proving to people what Bush did was wrong and why he was wrong to do it. There are so many incorrect defenses of this policy and I can tell you I have thought about most of them. But what I cant shake is that you cannot have a bunch of government lawyers “proving” the executive is right and using the law to do it. The fact that I have not heard one good argument against that simple fact speaks volumes.
Gyges,
No worries.
Bron,
No syrup on this thread, but there’s another John Galt wannabe on the Award Winning Vocalist Killed thread who looked a lot like a waffle to me.
Buddha:
no maple syrup?
Buddha,
That was unclear, I’m sorry. If you put the words “if you believe…” at the beginning of the sentence you’ll get a much better picture of what I was trying to say.
Gyges,
I’m with you up until “There is an ultimate GOOD (the highest spot in the hierarchy) and serving that could never be bad; torture is justified if it serves that good.”
Torture is simply cruelty with no utility except faulty intelligence. If it had higher utility for intelligence operations, I might be more sympathetic to that argument. The facts show otherwise and indeed that torture is counterproductive as it creates a recruiting tool. To me torture is a white hat/black hat issue. If that card is played in the name of good, you’ve lost the hand and likely the game because your actions would default your team to the bad guys. You can’t “kinda torture” and be a good guy. That’s the ethical equivalent of being “kinda pregnant”. Torture in the name of good is an oxymoron to me. You cease being good when you torture by definition just as you do when you commit pedophilia. But it has been stated here before that it is no secret that good can come from bad and vice versa. Death and killing for “good” is a sometimes required evil, but I honestly see no justification for torture other than to satisfy sadistic urges of the torturer who, by their very nature, are antithetical to civil society. If killing is required, it should be done as humanely as possible and only when required, i.e. an intractable opponent will not stop short of being killed. I’m all for Dick getting a lethal injection. But torture? As badly as my Demon would enjoy seeing Dick in a Iron Maiden for his crimes against America or perhaps staked out over an anthill with honey poured on his evil fascist head, it is over the line.
You forgot some I am sure, Pardon me? Like workers day and St. Josephs Day etc
May 1st is Beltaine, Law Day, Loyalty Day, Mother Goose Day and No Pants Day.
So hold up your skirts before jumping over those Beltaine fires. Hope you didn’t forget to bathe in this morning’s dew.
they love their torture, for Jesus or of Jesus. how ’bout mel gibson’s “the passion of the christ”. and while jc was up there, you think they would’ve demanded god’s name.
and fwiw, the internet movie database, imdb, demographic poll shows females under 18 giving it the highest rating, 8.1 out of 10. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335345/ratings
Youtube must be blocked; I wanted to reference the song:
“The Lusty Month of May” from Camelot! They have both the Julie Andrews stage and Vanessa Redgrave screen versions; it’s a great song listen to Julie’s for voice and watch Vanessa’s for seduction. The Taliban would ban both; they are such prudes!
One should never scorn pleasure; today is May Day!
Religion and government policy never mix unless you live in a Taliban-like world. The far religous right is as close to the Taliban as we will likely see in our country. There is only answer to every question to them and it comes from the Bible. No matter if you don’t believe in their bible because then you are an atheist or a heathen. The answers to the poll are a perfect example why there has to be a strict separation between Church and State. Without that separation, the American Taliban will be a reality.
Sorry I misdirected you; try:
http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/31/
bdaman,
Based on your ill informed posts at 7:00am and 7:33am I suggest you read these articles; read them and weep!
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/20/nyregion/20stab.html?_r=1
http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/31/lawyer-in-mistaken-stabbling-case-recieves-12-years/
rcampbell,
I never heard that quote you attributed to GWBush.
******************************************************
It was in the caption sir.
I do in fact believe that a number of people that are in positions of influence suffer from some insanity.
Well Gyges, I thank you for the invitation. But I see I have been black beaned by Jill. I guess I am the only one that is anonymous. So, if I want to get into the club again, I guess Jill will have to be presumptively absent.
ONLY KIDDING.