We have another taser incident at a sporting event. It is unclear why the man was approached. Some reports suggest that he was in the wrong seat and was not obeying the commands of the officers.
There is again a question of the need for the taser, which creates a scene that is made all the more chaotic with the intervention of a shouting individual and then a fly ball.
One alleged witness left the following account:
I was sitting about 5 rows in front of him and he was actually a Texas fan and he kept yelling obnoxiously. The usher who had been very nice went over and made a joke. And dude flipped out screaming and swearing saying get outta my fing face and calling him the n word. They called security and he was still screaming and swearing. So the police came and while they were trying to put handcuffs on him he kept trying to swing at them. So they tasered him and he fell and hit his head.
While the man is clearly uncooperative and perhaps belligerent, it is unclear why a shot of 50,000 volts was needed.
We previously saw the use of a taser on a woman accused of sitting in the wrong seat at a football game, here.
At last night’s A’s game against Texas, a belligerent fan gets zapped by Oakland police officers (1:05), another fan gets pushed down the stairs (1:25), a woman makes things worse by screaming, and then a foul ball lands (1:42).
I believe that the police responded with excess force. The person causing the disturbance was not even on his feet. I feel like further efforts could have been exhausted before the police used the tazer.
The person causing the problems at the game has a disease called Schizophrenia is a chronic, severe, and disabling brain disorder. Its surprising that the police were not able to recognize that this person was not just drunk and agitated but that he was mentally ill as well. I watched the video once and recognized that the person may have schizophrenia or some mental impairment.
People with schizophrenia may hear voices other people don’t hear or they may believe that others are reading their minds, controlling their thoughts, or plotting to harm them. These experiences are terrifying and can cause fearfulness, withdrawal, or extreme agitation. Clearly, this situation agitated this person and the symptoms of his schizophrenia only worsened as the situation progressed. People with schizophrenia may not make sense when they talk, may sit for hours without moving or talking much, or may seem perfectly fine until they talk about what they are really thinking.
Our police need to be better trained in recognizing and handling people who suffer from these types of mental impairments. This person has a severe case of schizophrenia and suffers from other mental illness as well. Some of this sickness was caused by childhood trauma including but not limited to molestation and physical abuse. Not to mention, this person served his country in the Vietnam War which only advanced his mental health condition. I understand that police offers are trained to focus on safety and that is their priority. However, with so many Americans suffering from untreated mental illnesses it seems like we as a country should be driving for a cure and better access to treatment for all who suffer from mental illnesses and not just criminal justice. Perhaps, if the severely mentally ill were treated maybe crime would be reduced?
I know most people are thinking why doesn’t this guy just take his meds and he will be better? There are a variety of reasons why people with schizophrenia do not adhere to treatment. If they don’t believe they are ill, they may not think they need medication at all. If their thinking is too disorganized, they may not remember to take their medication every day. If they don’t like the side effects of one medication, they may stop taking it without trying a different medication. Substance abuse can also interfere with treatment effectiveness. Its really hard to understand the mind of people with schizophrenia until you walk a mile in their shoes.
Schizophrenia is an extremely puzzling condition, the most chronic and disabling of the major mental illnesses. Its unfortunate that people who suffer from treatment resistant mental illnesses such as this are viewed as “burdens” on the society and treated like animals and not human beings. I certainly hope that some public service worker reaches out and tries to find help for this person so he is able to live a meaningful life in the community.
Again, public safety of innocent people is of the most importance. I just only hope that the public can be more aware of mental illnesses and schizophrenia. These people suffer, something those of us who are not mentally ill will never understand. It would be great if our country could focus more on getting good treatment and services for people who have schizophrenia. Its no wonder that more then 20% of people in prison in the USA are severely mentally ill and most often it is untreated.
The next big danger to get tasered? Soccer moms. Complete with video.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/mom_in_minivan_tasered_in_traf.html
It’s all part of a culture of cruelty where no excess is too great:
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/video-ohio-cop-bodyslams-knife-wielding-grandma/
Srsly, this video made me sick.
Good Ole’ General Abner Doubleday, Union Traitor, War Profiteer ready to service those who would pay.
Mike S history needs scribner like you.
“I think MLB has had its Heros and Bullies throughout the time. Abner being NO EXCEPTION.”
AY,
You are more correct than you might even know. In the 50’s for instance so-called “greenies” were available in the locker room to whoever wanted it. These were early amphetamines. Alcoholism has always been prevalent throughout baseball’s history. Abner Doubleday had nothing to do with inventing baseball and it was known when MLB introduced the fable, so they intentionally lied. The racism in Baseball was of course palpable and came about when a redneck star Adrian Cap Anson refused to play with Blacks in the 1880’s, when there were some already playing. Anson is in the Hall of Fame. Between the scuffed balls and tricked up bats baseball is actually the only sport that has through its’ history put a premium on cheating. Thrown games were common throughout the sports’ history up until the 1920 Black Sox Scandal.
The Oakland A’s were originally the Philadelphia Athletics one of the most successful teams of all times, whose owner Connie Mack decided he could make even more money by fielding a poorly paid team. He owned and managed them for 50 years and turned a great franchise into a joke. The team was moved to Kansas City in the early 50’s and basically served as a “farm team” for the NY Yankees, since its’ owner was financially beholden to the Yankees owner. When the KC market became fed up with a purposely bad team, they then skipped to Oakland.
The worst, however, was the Brooklyn Dodgers, the team of my youth. They were actually at the time of their move the wealthiest team in baseball, but their owner Walter O’Malley was given the entire Chavez Ravine in a lucrative land deal, that moved out poor Mexicans and turned his back on the most loyal fans in the country, almost destroying Brooklyn in the process. It was a move tinged with racism.
I know this stuff because since my youth my hobby was baseball statistics and Baseball in general. I was even a member of SABR (Society of American Baseball Research) for some years in the 80’s. I’ve grown tired of the game, though
I still sort of root for the Mets. The years of it being run corruptly have taken their toll on me and I find I’ve lost interest in my old age.
I recently slipped down to dugout seats at a Nationals game. Could I have been tasered if I refused to leave? “uh, my ticket? Like, I had it a minute ago. Yikes!
My heart goes out to families who have lost loved ones to tragedy. However, I do NOT concede my point. Although anything from ballpoint pens to hotel towels have killed people, few groups have made it their life cause to lobby agains them as deadly instruments of torture. We can debate the correct spelling of doushebag all night, but the fact of the matter remains, there are few other options that would have served these officers better. No one can tell if the subject you’re dealing with is suffering from mental illness or higher than a kite right at that moment. Sometimes you don’t have all day to figure it out.
I’d hate to believe that medical examiners are listing contributory factors of death with no medical basis for their judgments. Keep a close eye on that one.
As a side here are a few options for those officers; tactics that might have been used prior to the advent of the Taser. There’s a pressure point that works well, just under the mandibular angle, for standing drunks up. This, however, relies on pain compliance, which may not work with the intoxicated. Arm bars work too, although when a subject is that big, you have to lift a few weights to counter his. You’ve heard of gym’s, right? If he fights or resists, you may have to step it up. Carotid control techniques aren’t called for, and the recovery is more sketchy than a Taser use. Or you could walk away and not do the job you’ve sworn, or are getting paid good off-duty money, to do.
Question Man:
GW law mommy dearest is a vapid twit. is that an oxymoron? The missive above appeared to have been written under the influence. WWI?
I guess you could smack him on the head with a billy club or a black jack. Put the old sleeper hold on him or half or full nelsons. Take him down and put a knee in his back while cuffing him. Any number of things they used to do.
hmmmm. I seem to have struck a nerve. when you have run out of intelligent discourse that seem to be when you resort to personal attack.
of course, the time before tasers is relevant. there were certainly unruly drunk spectators at ballgames them. there were certainly people who resisted arrest before tasers. we had beer back then and baseball and thetwo mixed just about as well then as they do now. take that any way you want.
if you can’t think of ways to subdue a rowdy drunk without a taser you just are not very well trained or very smart.
I am not an Oakland Police Officer so I won’t play you little hypothetical.
**********
Actually, you started the personal attack. Keep in mind you reap what you sow.
Your generic reference to something that happened X years ago is meaningless. Just because something did not exist X years ago does not by mean it should not be used now. The issue at hand, however, is the question you will not answer.
You say you are not an Oakland police officer and therefore will not answer. However, your own words indicate that someone who cannot figure out how to subdue a rowdy drunk is not very smart. Are you saying you are not very smart? I have come up with multiple options and you cannot come up with one?
As I said before, I refrained from adding example options that would influence a reply. Consequently, your avoidance is very telling. It is clear you will not answer because you can’t, or more likely, you are afraid that you will somehow fail.
It appears you are incapable of defending your criticism of the police using a taser other than making generic comments about rowdy people existed before tasers.
It is one thing to criticize others, however, criticizing and at the same time refusing to provide a specific alternative when the opportunity is presented speaks volumes about you.
By the way, you do not know this Oakland spectator was drunk. Be careful about just making things up.
I think MLB has had its Heros and Bullies throughout the time. Abner being NO EXCEPTION. When baseball was gaining momentum in the US, some of the players could not play because they were too drunk or high on cocaine. Cobb certainly would have been banned from participation.
If memory serves me correctly was not Brooklyn a lovely place to live when the syndicate decided to move them to LA? Did I say Syndicate, I meant the family.
I would garner to say that less than 10 percent of the original players could have passed a drug test in any sense of the imagination today.
poohbear writes: as a law enforcement officer do not make the laws nor do I set fines. I do however hold the power of what I put down on paper. You call the fact that I can give someone a break on an inflated traffic fine wrong? I think not. Its my way of saying that I too am a citizen and I think the fines are out of hand. Now for your excuse for running the stop sign. I have heard most of them and they are usually bullshit. The thing is that if there was no one coming it would have added three to five seconds to your journey and been safer for everyone. But it seems that you are able to pick and choose the laws you obey or whatever suits you at the moment. Traffic laws are put in place not to inconvenience you but to keep us all safe. But when people as yourself decide they have the right to disobey when they wish then the greater public is at danger. Hope your child was fine.
the real truth is you like the power your badge gives you. you can be merciful or not. your choice. that is the definition of power over others.
so I rolled through a stop sign. had there been another car i’d have stopped all the way. no one was at risk. and the officer knew that if he’d pointed his speed gun at the brick wall he was parked next to it’d been clocked at 50 mph.
my kid wasn’t fine. she is now. 20 years later.
it didn’t get me to the doctor that much faster.. my kid was weird about the stop and go of the car and ear infections will do that to them.
I as a law enforcement officer do not make the laws nor do I set fines. I do however hold the power of what I put down on paper. You call the fact that I can give someone a break on an inflated traffic fine wrong? I think not. Its my way of saying that I too am a citizen and I think the fines are out of hand. Now for your excuse for running the stop sign. I have heard most of them and they are usually bullshit. The thing is that if there was no one coming it would have added three to five seconds to your journey and been safer for everyone. But it seems that you are able to pick and choose the laws you obey or whatever suits you at the moment. Traffic laws are put in place not to inconvenience you but to keep us all safe. But when people as yourself decide they have the right to disobey when they wish then the greater public is at danger. Hope your child was fine.
Question Man writes: My question was asked without insulting any posters or professions. Sorry that a simple question sets you off. My sympathies to anyone who has to be around you in real life.
Generic comments about not having tasers X years ago is not relevant to the question. The list of items/products used today but did not exist X years ago is a long one. We got by without them too.
Back to the point.
You are an Oakland police officer assigned to eject a defiant trespassor. What specific action would you take to remove this uncooperative spectator from private property? I am intentionally not adding example options that would influence a reply.
Can anyone answer that?
hmmmm. I seem to have struck a nerve. when you have run out of intelligent discourse that seem to be when you resort to personal attack.
of course, the time before tasers is relevant. there were certainly unruly drunk spectators at ballgames them. there were certainly people who resisted arrest before tasers. we had beer back then and baseball and thetwo mixed just about as well then as they do now. take that any way you want.
if you can’t think of ways to subdue a rowdy drunk without a taser you just are not very well trained or very smart.
I am not an Oakland Police Officer so I won’t play you little hypothetical.
GW Mommy Dearest,
My question was asked without insulting any posters or professions. Sorry that a simple question sets you off. My sympathies to anyone who has to be around you in real life.
Generic comments about not having tasers X years ago is not relevant to the question. The list of items/products used today but did not exist X years ago is a long one. We got by without them too.
Back to the point.
You are an Oakland police officer assigned to eject a defiant trespassor. What specific action would you take to remove this uncooperative spectator from private property? I am intentionally not adding example options that would influence a reply.
Can anyone answer that?
Well, I also watched this video. You can clearly see that while his arms and hands were out infront of him, and he was not resisting arrest anymore, that is when that “Power minded A**hole of a cop” tasered him in the back. Totally uncalled for. Not only once, but twice. He was not a threat to anyone. He was sitting in his chair. Now i can understand if he stood up and got in the officer’s face, but that’s not what happened.
A perfect example of a bad police officer that thinks he is above every one else. He should lose his job and/or sued. The guy hit his head. I have no idea how hard or what damage. Doesnt matter. The man was sitting back in his chair not resisting arrest and being handcuffed.
Next time I see that officer, I am going to use me 1st ammendment rights on him and see if he tasers me. Easiest money I will ever make.
question man writes: f you do not tase this defiant person, what do you do?
golly QM… whatever did we do before tasers were invented? just shoot people?
clearly, there were ways to get uncooperative people to cooperate prior to the invent of the taser.
now.
what does your little brain tell you?
This incident has generated quite a few comments.
I am not a cop or a lawyer, nor is anyone in my family. I was not at the game.
However, I do have a question based on the video.
There is a spectator on private property and it appears that he is being asked to leave.
It appears the spectator is not cooperative.
At 58 seconds on the video, the spectator thumbs his nose at a cop.
That’s a good clue that he is not going to follow any instructions.
You are a cop asked to step in and get this person off your private property.
The person you are dealing with is not only not cooperating, but by thumbing his nose, it is reasonable to say he is defiant.
The cops do not know this person or anything about his mental or medical issues.
Their assignment is to remove this person from this property. The property owner has every right to have this done.
If you do not tase this defiant person, what do you do?