Some people in Asheville, North Carolina are up in arms about a man just elected to the city council. No he is not corrupt or an adulterer. Those are virtually qualifications in today’s politics. The problem is not what Cecil Bothwell is but what he is not: God-fearing. Opponents are opposing his election on the basis of a provision of the North Carolina Constitution that bars atheists from public office. One is the former head of the NAACP. It is clearly unconstitutional and would make for a wonderful (and educational) challenge for North Carolina.
H.K. Edgerton, a former Asheville NAACP president, does not appear disturbed about discriminating against people on the basis of faith as opposed to race: “I’m not saying that Cecil Bothwell is not a good man, but if he’s an atheist, he’s not eligible to serve in public office, according to the state constitution.”
Article 6, section 8 of the state constitution says: “The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.”
We have previously seen candidates opposed for their belief in creationism (here) or their lack of belief in God (here). I am not sure why atheists are viewed as inherently disqualified. At least with an atheist, you know that he is not hoping for something better later. This is it. Indeed, Mr. Bothwell should have run on the slogan: “Vote for Me: This is All I Got.” If you do not believe in an afterlife, you really want to make this heaven on Earth. It is the same reason it may be an advantage to have pilots who are atheists: they have nothing to look forward to if they crash, here.
Article VI of the U.S. Constitution says: “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” The Supreme Court clearly ruled that such requirements are unconstitutional in Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961).
Bothwell acknowledges that he is an atheist on his MySpace page, though he wrote in an online post last week that he prefers the term “post-theist.” At the moment, many are trying to keep him a pre-council member.
For the full story, click here.
Cecil Bothwell’s story was covered on Maddow last night. Here’s a link
Also, a link to Mr Bothwell’s blog which has a statement explaining his position.
Milk K.
Don’t let the keynoard kept use hear. k
or don’t let the wind sweep your ass between you ears again. It makes it difficult for one to hear. Ever read Faulkner, Steinbeck? Did not think so.
Mike Kilpatrick,
You are welcome to leave any time; please do.
“Pray to Play: North Carolina Voters Seek to Seek To Block Swearing in” man this site has the worst typos of any I’ve seen.
Tootsie,
If man is inherently evil, why has the course of human history (in general) been a progression away from violence and towards pacifism, from slavery and serfdom to freedom for all?
Of course, Tootie you share the ideals of some of my fellow towns people(Asheville, NC), where this story is unfolding.
I’m always amused by religious judgement and self-righteousness.
Its as clear as “the overwhelming evidence writ large throughout history” that you believe yourself to be ‘right’ beyond doubt in all things but how do you know for sure?
Its fun to say things like “Last century was particularly awful and atheism had a lot to do with it.” with ZERO evidence to back up such a claim, I guess. Unfortunately, for your way of thought control though, its not true.
Please, Tootie, prove to us that supernatural beings are real and that YOUR particular brand of the supernatural is ruling the universe, first, then we’ll talk.
“Last century was particularly awful and atheism had a lot to do with it.”
Tootie,
If you knew anything about history you would understand that most Centuries have been particularly awful. That is the history of humanity. It is not about evil though for the most part, that is where your personal prejudices cloud your viewpoint. Humanity is evolving apes. We are somewhat different from most animals in that we are self aware and aware of our own mortality. A shark is not inherantly evil as a flesh eater and yet constantly kills to live. Where the simian branches have evolved the option of meat vs. vegetable it is less clear cut and humanity has come to the point where there is general acknowledgement that murdering others of our species is unnecessary and can be counterproductive. This has represented at least a million years of evolving, with our understanding of the world making breakthroughs in perhaps the past 250,000 years.
Now to an extent, religion has played a positive role in this and there is wisdom to be found in various religious philosophies. However, these philosophies, no matter how enlightened the original teacher, have also been re-interpreted into justifications for killing other people. There were no doubt horrendous wars and genocide in the 20th Century, but the 19th was hardly better. The Civil War killed over 500,000 people who were citizens of the same country. Slavery was genocide, without question and so was our dealing with Native Americans. That was just our country alone. The historical record shows the rest of humanity no better.
Your claim that atheism had a lot to do with the troubles of the 20th Century and your reference to Marx. no doubt indicates communism as a pernicious cause of evil in the 20th century and no doubt it played a major role with Stalin killing as many as Hitler. I’m not a fan of Marxism as an economic philosophy and unlike many I have known and debated real life Marxists. However, the NAZI’s were not atheists and were supported by the bulk of Christians in their country. They were responsible for WW II and not Stalin. WW I was begun by Christians, as was the slaughters in Africa. THe Muslims and Hindu’s also had problemmatic 20th Century History and many criticize Israeli behavior. Neither Atheism, nor religion represents inherent evil or bad behavior. Both can be used to good or bad purposes. The bad behavior in the world is the product of individuals and groups who fanatically believe their own version of the truth should prevail.
However, as bad as history has been it has truly shown a marked upward trend in human living. Given that we humans are at the brain stem merely omnivorous predators of the highly successful variety, there is little doubt that we have had a violent history. This for the most part is not evil, it is the nature of a percentage of our population acting on their less evolved impulses. People who generally try to define things as evil, are those with a philosophical, or religious axe to grind and so have their judgment clouded by their own pre-suppositions.
“Among those in the world I distrust are those who claim to be optimists but pessimistically make nasty snap judgments about people they just instantly met through a few typed words in the comment section of an internet blog.”
Since I assume this to be a riposte aimed at me let me say that there are clues in your meager output that I think indicate where you’re coming from, though you try to play your cards close to the vest.
1.”That is the “eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die” theory written about in the Bible.”
2. “This is because, and I think history proves it, humans are inherently evil whether they do their evil deeds because or not because of “god”.”
3. “the human race is wicked beyond belief”
Your word choice and characterizations are such that much meaning can be gleaned from the.
mespo:
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Thank you, I am a Christian.
The most beautiful thing in nature is a virtuous man (since there are so few of them).
I appreciate them all.
Tootie:
“My outlook on who humans are comes from the overwhelming evidence writ large throughout history that the human race is wicked beyond belief.”
************
I wonder who illuminated,tried,reproved,and punished those responsible for historical atrocities? Chimpanzees? How did the lions handle their crimes among themselves? If for every evil, there is a justice are not these “vile” humans worthy of some credit? If it’s any consolation, your view is decidedly Christian!
Mike:
My outlook on who humans are comes from the overwhelming evidence writ large throughout history that the human race is wicked beyond belief. Last century was particularly awful and atheism had a lot to do with it.
Yes, I’m guilty, I have profiled the entire human race. It helps me survive.
I profile lions too and so, wisely, I keep away from them. This is not pessimism, it is sensibility.
Among those in the world I distrust are those who claim to be optimists but pessimistically make nasty snap judgments about people they just instantly met through a few typed words in the comment section of an internet blog.
Gyges,
Those who are so eager to ascribe evil willy-nilly, don’t get the sense of what you say. They’re too busy pointing fingers.
Mike,
But if all men are inherently evil, then our own short comings are just human nature and excusable.
That’s why family values politicians can cheat on their wife with a clear conscious.
Tootie,
Your logic is distressed to say the least. The truth is that some people are predominantly good, some are predominantly bad and most are inbetween. Bad can usually be defined as those who would hurt others for their own gain, be it psychological, power based of money based. There is enough historical evidence to show that purveyors of religion have been every bit as bad as purveyors against religion.
“That is the “eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die” theory written about in the Bible.”
This is not logically responsive to your quote from JT which obviously meant that those not believing in an afterlife might be more careful about avoiding death. This has nothing to do with the “eat,drink..etc.”
formulation since that is about fatalism.” As to the inherent evil of human beings, one first has to define what is evil. To me anyone who does not believe in treating others, as they themselves would want to be treated, are people on the path towards being evil. However, that doesn’t make them inherently evil, only self centered.
To me few people are really evil and that is not because I morally equivocate, but because of my lifelong interest in how people think and live, I’ve only seen a few instances of real evil. Among those who I distrust the most in their judgments of others are those who have such a pessimistic outlook on who humans are.
Mr. Turley writes:
“If you do not believe in an afterlife, you really want to make this heaven on Earth. It is the same reason it may be an advantage to have pilots who are atheists: they have nothing to look forward to if they crash, here.”
That is the “eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die” theory written about in the Bible.
It has never worked, anywhere on earth, including non-biblical lands, or even atheist lands.
This is because, and I think history proves it, humans are inherently evil whether they do their evil deeds because or not because of “god”.
Karl Marx, if I recall, didn’t believe in a god. He worked real hard at making life a better place, perhaps even a heaven on earth.
And in the meantime, his wife and children lived in dire poverty. This was, I believe, somewhat self imposed because Marx was obsessed with how to make life fairer but couldn’t make a living at it. Four of his seven children died because of the hardships caused in large part because of a man out to make the world a better place since there was nothing beyond this life.
Gyges–
Thank you for the clarification.