A new Rasmussen poll reveals that 58% of people polled would like to see Flight 253 bombing suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab tortured for information. It is not just an indictment of our values but another byproduct of President Obama’s blocking of any independent investigation and prosecution of torture under the Bush Administration. By protecting Bush officials, Obama is reinforcing their argument that such measures are merely controversial and not crimes.
The poll asked individuals: “Should waterboarding and other aggressive interrogation techniques be used to gain information from the suspected bomber?” The result was 58% yes, to only 30% who said no. I was asked the same question during this segment of The Situation Room.
What is astonishing is that this poll occurred virtually as people were leaving for churches and synagogues to celebrate the holidays. I guess that walking on water thing was just a prelude to waterboarding the Pharisees.
For the full story, click here.
People want to torture these bastards that have no problem killing innocent people in order to have a virgin orgy.
Only problem is once you set your wee wee on fire, it’s hard to use, or is it hardly any use.
Bdaman,
The games are to begin in the Winterfest Games 2010 Games of Bdaman Bashing.
If you like toast make sure its out of the toaster before it get too toasted on both sides.
mespo727272
I know, just another poke in the eye with a hot ice pick.
I think this represents the purposeful attempts to brutalize our population with fear and propaganda. Joe G. pointed out all the relelvant consequences of torture, so why doesn’t this reality mean anything to 58% of our population? Why are so many people full of bloodthirsty cruelty?
We now have a cowardly, cruel, cringing population who is easy to control. Too many of us will do anything, or put up with anything to “be safe”. This scares me about our nation, it scares me more than the cruelty I see in our “leaders”.
If we had any real leaders in this nation, every person from the last administration would be facing trial for torture. Instead, many in our Congress, the DOJ, the intelligence services, the armed forces as well as Obama have either engaged in, looked the other way, or actively approved of torture. A real leader would have come out and stood by our Constitution, stood by the rule of law. A real leader would have taken on anyone who tried to tear apart what makes this nation great, even if it meant their own death or lack of a political future. Our ruling elite is full of cowards.
The people of this nation had better stop following such cowards and starting thinking for ourselves. We are a bullied and manipulated people who calls ourselves free. If we are free we ought to act like we are. Freedom takes courage. You can’t abandon everything that our nation should be and call yourself a free and brave people. We are now so easily controlled, but we have a choice to pull back, stand up and reclaim the nation. That means a rejection of torture and a rejection of any person who reviles our Constitution and would hold us hostage to fear.
Learn to distinguish attacking your credibility versus attacking you as a person. If I said you are a bigot racist troll it’s because you have demonstrated (AND ADMITTED) that is what you are. The defense against slander is truth. You have 1) called another poster a “Christ Killer”, 2) posted racist comments and 3) admitted you are a troll with no agenda but disruption.
If I said you liked to kill kittens for fun? That’d be a personal attack.
What I do is attack your credibility as a speaker, which given the circumstances, is perfectly appropriate. So please, try to paint yourself the victim.
We’ll all laugh our asses off at that, Mr “Christ Killer”.
He knew, but Golfing is more important.
EXCLUSIVE: Obama Got Pre-Christmas Intelligence Briefing About Terror Threats to “Homeland”
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/archive/2010/01/01/exclusive-obama-got-pre-christmas-intelligence-briefing-about-terror-threats-to-homeland.aspx
Bdman:
Buddha isn’t attacking you personally — but he should be.
mespo’s post points to another distinction that is often overlooked. Where our systems are breaking is at the junction of democracy and republicanism. It is breaking because those who are supposed to be representing our interests as citizens are now looking out for 1) themselves and 2) their corporate donors – donors which should not be allowed to participate in electoral processes of government (as they are a fiction) any more than animals are allowed to participate. Had the Congress been doing their job? No one would have EVER been tortured nor would have habeas corpus been suspended. Of course, if they were doing their jobs, Cheney and the Board of Exxon would be in prison right now.
To be clear, “psychological harassment” (torture) has come to America (and American citizens). It’s real and it’s inconsistent with our Constitution and the rule of law.
This what happens on the slippery slope. We torture terrorists and then we slowly start working on “our own.” Too “liberal”? Out of step with the 58% who believe that torture is a good idea? A little different? Confrontational? Questions authority?
We’re certainly moving towards a “slave state.” Let’s hope it isn’t too late.
so he resorts to attacking me personally
You do it to me, far more than I do it to you, Mr. Sunspot
As they say, turn about is fair play.
“A new Rasmussen poll reveals that 58% of people polled would like to see Flight 253 bombing suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab tortured…”
**************
Just another example of the wisdom of the Founders in forming a republic rather than a democracy. One would hope that our leaders know better. Madison in Federalist 10, lays out the problem and postulates the solution:
“Among the numerous advantages promised by a well constructed Union, none deserves to be more accurately developed than its tendency to break and control the violence of faction. The friend of popular governments never finds himself so much alarmed for their character and fate as when he contemplates their propensity to this dangerous vice. He will not fail, therefore, to set a due value on any plan which, without violating the principles to which he is attached, provides a proper cure for it. The instability, injustice, and confusion introduced into the public councils have, in truth, been the mortal diseases under which popular governments have everywhere perished, as they continue to be the favorite and fruitful topics from which the adversaries to liberty derive their most specious declamations.”
…
“By a faction I understand a number of citizens, whether amounting to a majority or minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adverse to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community.”
…
“The latent causes of faction are thus sown in the nature of man; and we have them everywhere brought into different degrees of activity, according to the different circumstances of civil society. A zeal for different opinions concerning religion, concerning government, and many ocher points, as well of speculation as of practice; an attachment to different leaders ambitiously contending for pre-eminence and power; or to persons of other descriptions whose fortunes have been interesting to the human passion, have, in turn, divided mankind into parties, inflamed them with mutual animosity, and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppress each ocher than to co-operate for their common good.”
…
“It is in vain to say that enlightened statesmen will be able to adjust these clashing interests and render them all subservient to the public good. Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm. Nor, in many cases, can such an adjustment be made at all without taking into view indirect and remote considerations, which will rarely prevail over the immediate interest which one party may find in disregarding the rights of another or the good of the whole.”
…
“When a majority is included in a faction, the form of popular government, on the other hand, enables it to sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of ocher citizens. To secure the public good and private rights against the danger of such a faction, and at the same time to preserve the spirit and the form of popular government, is then the great object to which our inquiries are directed. Let me add chat it is the great desideratum by which alone this form of government can be rescued from the opprobrium under which it has so long labored and be recommended to the esteem and adoption of mankind.
By what means is this object attainable? Evidence by one of two only. Either the existence of the same passion or interest in a majority at the same time must be prevented, or the majority, having such coexistent passion or interest, must be rendered, by their number and local situation, unable to concert and carry into effect schemes of oppression. If the impulse and the opportunity be suffered to coincide, we well know that neither moral nor religious motives can be relied on as an adequate control. They are not found to be such on the injustice and violence of individuals, and lose their efficacy in proportion to the number combined together, that is, in proportion as their efficacy becomes needful.
From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert results from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”
…
“The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens and greater sphere of country over which the latter may be extended.
The effect of the first difference is, on the one hand, to refine and enlarge the public views by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country and whose patriotism and love of justice will be lease likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial consideration. Under such a regulation it may well happen that the public voice, pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good than if pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good than if pronounced by the people themselves, convened for the purpose. On the other hand, the effect may be inverted. Men of factious tempers, of local prejudices, or of sinister designs, may, by intrigue, by corruption, or by other means, first obtain the suffrages, and then betray the interests of the people.”
anon nurse,
Excellent post. And you point to a key tactic of the fascists: dumbing down the populace.
It’s easier to steal from and abuse the rights of those who have no idea what their rights are or that they are being stolen from. Our educational systems are partly to fault for the decline into fascism we are seeing.
“I’ve had patients (too many) tell me that they’re being harassed and followed in their communities. They tell me that the police (and other “public servants” are involved.) And I believe most of them. And I’m sick of it (as well as heartsick about it). The police response is that these folks are “crazy” and you must be “crazy”, as well, for believing it.
The patients to whom I’m referring are vulnerable and may have provoked the wrong person. Some of them are also activists. If we don’t closely examine the abuses of the last administration and curb the powers of those who clearly don’t have the moral code to be given such authority, we have no one to blame but ourselves for what happens down the road. (And I’m not referring to many of the good people who post here, in addressing “blame.”)
Colin Powell spoke of a “Terror-Industrial Complex” (and I’m seeing the clear signs of one):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dsw4Y3ej9w
In Paul Krugman’s book, “The Great Unraveling (Losing Our Way in the New Century”, he wrote:
“The real challenge now is not to stamp out terrorism; that’s an unattainable goal. The challenge is to find a way to cope with the threat of terrorism without losing the freedom and prosperity that make America the great nation it is.” September 10, 2002
He (Krugman) quotes Kissinger in his intro: “Those who warn against danger are considered alarmists; those who counsel adaptation to circumstance are considered balanced and sane.” Krugman then concludes, “But so far the alarmists have been right, every time. What can we do?”
Indeed. What can we do? I do know this: We’d better do something and we’d better do it quickly. We’re in a world of trouble here. And I’ll say it. Yep, I’m sounding one of the many alarms.
I remember seeing a Sandra Day O’Connor interview about her web site (http://www.ourcourts.org/). At the time, she said that high schools were cutting back and eliminating “Civics” classes. I guess we’re seeing the results…
Never, in my wildest dreams, would I have imagined what I’m now seeing in America.
None of this changes the topic here is the illegal and unconstitutional torture of anyone by the Federal government.
It’s not the weather.
It’s not my record.
It’s not bdawhackjobs delusions of grandeur.
The topic iss the record of the Bush and Obama administrations actions in ILLEGALLY TORTURING PEOPLE.
That’s the only valid topic for this thread. As soon as the amateur is done playing propagandist and trying to drive away from that, I’ll probably quit chewing on him. At least in this thread.
AY,
He seems to forget that “down that road” led to my victory. He’s just desperate and flailing at this point so he resorts to attacking me personally. Well that’s just funny considering he’s a demonstrated bigot, racist and self-confessed troll. Yeah, he’s no longer even good sport, just another bad example.
Like those who endorse torture are bad examples of human beings.
Buddha,
January 2, 2010 resolve. I will try and not be acerbate to Bdaman as much as it hurts. He is a troll as you know.
My record?, yes your record.
We’ve been down this road before with another well known poster here, I’ll let the record speak for itself.
no what I mean Vern?
Have your handlers started asking for their money back or are they just getting mad because the free help is worth less than what they paid for it? Just curious. Because it must be torture knowing both your intended targets AND your employer think you are a joke.
You could always go waterboard yourself in the alternative. Ask your buddy Dick. He’ll even help. Then he’ll shoot you in the face with a shotgun and make you apologize.
My record?
Stay on topic, troll.
If you want to compare records in this venue, I’ll be glad to let my record stand against yours any day.
If you just like feeling small, marginalized and defeated. Which apparently you do. But if you want to play “mine is bigger than yours”? roflmao. Yeah, you have a reputation I’m really worried about as far as your credibility goes.
The topic is TORTURE. And it’s illegality.
But you keep trying to steer it to other topics. It’s funny.
Yessum Boss Hog. you right boss, whatever you say boss cause you da boss, boss. I think you should be the president,
oh but wait, we would have to look at your record, unless that is, you would be willing to tell it, tell it like it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcbbOYcEz88