Rev. Pat Robertson often attributes horrific events to God’s wrath as when he explained that the 9-11 attacks and the Katrina disaster were punishments for our sins. Now, Robertson has proclaimed that the earthquake in Haiti was sent by God to punish Haitians for a “pact with the Devil” made to overthrow the French.
Robertson favors that Old Testament God filled with anger and wrathful impulses. On this occasion, in Robertson’s mind, God wanted to kill over 100,000 people because of something that some of their ancestors allegedly did. Makes perfect sense. Here is what the good Reverend said “happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it”:
You know, Christie, something happened a long time ago in Haiti. And the people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon the third or whatever, and they got together and swore a pact to the Devil. They said, ‘We will serve you if you get us free from the French. True story. And so, the Devil said, Ok, it’s a deal. And they kicked the French out. You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since they have been cursed by one thing after another — desperately poor. That island of Hispaniola is one island. It’s cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti on the other is the Dominican Republic. The Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, etc. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have, and we need to pray for them, a great turning to God, that out of this tragedy, I’m optimistic something good may come, but right now we’re helping the suffering people — and the suffering is unimaginable.
He may be taking Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s reference to “Biblical damage” a bit too literally. However, President Obama seem to be offering a rebuttal by promising the Haitians that they “will not be forsaken.”
Native Haitians defeated French colonists in 1804 and declared independence. If only they had stayed virtual slaves under French rule, God would have been pleased and they would have been earthquake free.
This is line in with Robertson’s prior explanations of God’s wrath in terms of killing people in New Orleans and New York as God’s way of “vomiting” us out:
My only question is why we want to spend eternity with God if he is this horrible being filled with rage and wrath who speaks to guys like Pat Robertson? Isn’t God supposed to be better than us? Even my four-year-old does not hope that her classmates are wiped out in earthquakes when she is mad at them. If this were true, God would be in serious need for intense therapy over his anger issues and violent disposition. It is a bit hard to imagine Jesus saying “serve’s em right, Pop, for that stuff that their ancestors did over two hundred years ago.”
By the way, I missed that history lesson about how all of the Haitians swore a pact with the Devil. There are sacrificial and voodoo practices certainly on that island, but I was unaware that the whole revolution was one big Satanic movement.
There is no such “true story” about a nationwide pact with the devil. There were various revolutions by people like Padrejean in 1676 and François Mackandal in 1757. Robertson seems to be referring to Dutty Boukman who helped led the uprising in August 1791. He was a houngan, or Haitian priest, who held a traditional ceremony in which a pig (symbolizing the power of nature) was sacrificed and an oath administered to the fighters to be fearless in battle. However, accounts of his words notably omit Robertson’s alleged pact:
h! Eh! Bomba! Heu! Heu!
Canga, bafio té!
Canga, mouné de lé!
Canga, do ki la!
Canga, do ki la!
Canga, li!We swear to destroy the whites
and all they possess.
Let us die rather than fail
to keep this vow.
Indeed accounts have him referring to God not Satan for some old-fashioned wrathful justice (which would seem to appeal to Robertson:
“The god who created the sun which gives us light, who rouses the waves and rules the storm, though hidden in the clouds, he watches us. He sees all that the white man does. The god of the white man inspires him with crime, but our god calls upon us to do good works. Our god who is good to us orders us to revenge our wrongs. He will direct our arms and aid us. Throw away the symbol of the god of the whites who has so often caused us to weep, and listen to the voice of liberty, which speaks in the hearts of us all.”
For more on this oath, click here.
Of course, even if there was a pact with the Devil, God can really keep a grudge. Over two hundred years later, he kills over one hundred thousand people to teach their long-dead ancestors a lesson. I find that hard to believe, though I am warming to the idea of God sending Pat Robertson to punish us for our sins.
30%er:
I am a reformed troll but never neocon at least at core. I think I may have had some superficially neo-con beliefs but Buddha got my thinking straight on those. And thankfully so, I never had the make up to be a neo-con.
Pat Robertson is a paragon of virtue and anything he says is true. Since he is the second son of God, just ask him.
“you’re starting to sound like a neocon troll”
This must be where the debate/argument has the exit strategy introduced. It wasn’t Byron, bdaman, or myself that introduced global warming. It was introduced as supporting argument by the guy who ‘is a believer’.
We don’t chastize you for having your beliefs. We didn’t return fire until we were fired upon. bdaman has been following the global warming issue for a long time. He has posted much information about it on this blog. If anyone here should be considered the resident expert, it is bdaman. He provides a link to everything he provides.
30%er:
I am not a climate scientist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
Of course anything I say is strictly my opinion based on what I have read and heard. I could be totally wrong, in which case I will change my opinion to match the facts of reality, but then at that point it ceases to be an opinion/hypothesis and becomes settled science. Will you? Or will you keep denying reality to support an agenda?
“I try and not feel the trolls, especially if Buddha is around”
Where is the big green guy these days?
“Do we really need an in-depth discussion about Pat Robertson and his pious hypocrisy? I don’t see anyone here defending Pat Robertson or his statement.”
One good way to ensure I do not engage you in the future in polite discourse is to continue to behave like a neocon troll. For two days now we’ve had an in depth and interesting discussion on Pat Robertson and Christianity.
Now you’re trying to derail that discussion and that is a sure way to ensure that I ignore you in the future.
“You want a scientist how bout this one.”
Unless that scientist you are quoting is you, then once more you’re just the bird repeating what it heard.
Your opinion on scientific data that you are not trained to examine carries no weight.
And worse, you’re starting to sound like a neocon troll.
I’ve made it clear and as politely as I know how. I will not allow you to drag me further into a debate on global warming in a thread about pious hypocrisy.
SB “Where” not “we’re”.
Do we really need an in-depth discussion about Pat Robertson and his pious hypocrisy? I don’t see anyone here defending Pat Robertson or his statement.
“Then your “opinion” is no more valuable than mine.”
I didn’t try to say that it was. Did I?
Has the majority of the scientific community weighed in on this?
Did you get that from Wiki? How many of those that agree are experts in the field of climate change? I always put the burden of proof on the claimant.
When and where did this vote of concurrence take place? We’re they influenced by peer pressure? Did many of them just go along because it sounded reasonable?
You want a scientist how bout this one.
According to IPCC scientist Mojib Latif in an article for the Daily Mail, it could be just the beginning of a decades-long deep freeze. Latif is known as one of the world’s leading climate modelers.
Latif, is a professor at the Leibniz Institute at Germany’s Kiel University and an author of the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report. Latif is a prominent scientist in the UN’s IPCC climate research group.
Latif thinks the cold snap Americans, Brits, and Europeans have been suffering through is the beginning of another cycle, this one a down cycle. He says we’re in for 30 years of cooler temperatures. While maybe it is a harsh prediction, he calls it a “mini ice age”. That phrase is sure to stick in the craw of more than a few people. His theory is based on an analysis of natural oscillations in water temperatures in the oceans.
According to his He believes our current cold weather pattern is a pause, a “30-years-long blip”, in the larger cycle of global warming, which postulates that temperatures will rise rapidly over the coming years.
At a U.N. conference in September, Latif said that changes in the North Atlantic Oscillation could mask over any “manmade global warming” for the next few decades. He said the fluctuations in the NAO could also be responsible for much of the rise in global temperatures seen over the past 30 years.
In a stunning revelation, he told the Daily Mail that:
“a significant share of the warming we saw from 1980 to 2000 and at earlier periods in the 20th Century was due to these cycles – perhaps as much as 50 percent.”
Quite a revelation, and a smack down of much of the climate science in the last 30 years that attributes the cause mostly to CO2 increases.
In other news, Arctic sea ice is on the rise too.
According to the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center Arctic summer sea ice has increased by 409,000 square miles, or 26 per cent, since 2007.I’m betting that summer 2010 will have even more ice retained.
Right now, there doesn’t appear to be much of that “rotten ice” that one Canadian alarmist researcher squawked about to the media just a few weeks ago. In fact, we aren’t looking bad at all compared to 30 years ago.
Since neither of you are climate scientists your opinions are all you have to offer.
Since this thread is not about global warming your opinions would best be put to use in a thread about global warming, at which point I’d be happy to discuss the matter further.
But being as neither of you is a climate scientist then by your own arguments to me, you’re just the “birds” repeating what someone else told you.
This threads about Pat Robertson and his pious hypocrisy. I’ll be happy to answer any other questions you want to present me with on that topic.
“No I’m not a climate scientist, I’m Bdaman”
Then why are you trying to sound like one?
““Are YOU a climate scientist?”
The answer is NO.”
Then your “opinion” is no more valuable than mine.
And since the majority of the scientific community disagrees with you your opinion is even less valuable.
Mine at least has the weight of the overwhelming majority of the scientific community behind it.
No I’m not a climate scientist, I’m Bdaman
Duh and don’t forget this
How Wikipedia’s green doctor rewrote 5,428 climate articles.
We’ve known for some time that Wikipedia can’t be trusted to provide unbiased climate information. Solomon starts off by talking about Climategate emails.
The emails also describe how the band plotted to rewrite history as well as science, particularly by eliminating the Medieval Warm Period, a 400 year period that began around 1000 AD.
The Climategate Emails reveal something else, too: the enlistment of the most widely read source of information in the world — Wikipedia — in the wholesale rewriting of this history.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/19/wikibullies-at-work-the-national-post-exposes-broad-trust-issues-over-wikipedia-climate-information/
“30%er,
Wiki is not a scientific reference. Further, the Wiki points to the opinion of one Otto Kinne for support. Here’s a link and his full statement.”
It quotes one. See the little numbers next to the quotes? That’s called a reference.
Now please answer my question. I think I’ve answered more than my share of questions. Please answer mine now.
Are you, or any of you a climate scientist?
“Are YOU a climate scientist?”
The answer is NO. I’m not trying to sell anything. You are. I’m not going around saying that those who believe in global warming are “silly”. Am I?
I asked because I was interested in whether you were an expert spreading your knowledge, or just the bird repeating the words.
Byron you now I do. I B Da Man, and ya know it!!! my brother from another mother.
Get Down, Get Down, Get Down Get Down
I’m Bdaman, thats who I am, I’m into, the global Warmin Scam
I’m Bdamn, I’m Bdaman, it turns me on, I’m Bdaman, I’m Bdaman, say what you want.
To toot to too toot toot I’m your Bdaman
30%er,
Bdaman, Duh, Alan, and some others are one in the same. See the definition for troll.
I try and not feel the trolls, especially if Buddha is around.