Rev. Pat Robertson often attributes horrific events to God’s wrath as when he explained that the 9-11 attacks and the Katrina disaster were punishments for our sins. Now, Robertson has proclaimed that the earthquake in Haiti was sent by God to punish Haitians for a “pact with the Devil” made to overthrow the French.
Robertson favors that Old Testament God filled with anger and wrathful impulses. On this occasion, in Robertson’s mind, God wanted to kill over 100,000 people because of something that some of their ancestors allegedly did. Makes perfect sense. Here is what the good Reverend said “happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it”:
You know, Christie, something happened a long time ago in Haiti. And the people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon the third or whatever, and they got together and swore a pact to the Devil. They said, ‘We will serve you if you get us free from the French. True story. And so, the Devil said, Ok, it’s a deal. And they kicked the French out. You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since they have been cursed by one thing after another — desperately poor. That island of Hispaniola is one island. It’s cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti on the other is the Dominican Republic. The Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, etc. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have, and we need to pray for them, a great turning to God, that out of this tragedy, I’m optimistic something good may come, but right now we’re helping the suffering people — and the suffering is unimaginable.
He may be taking Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s reference to “Biblical damage” a bit too literally. However, President Obama seem to be offering a rebuttal by promising the Haitians that they “will not be forsaken.”
Native Haitians defeated French colonists in 1804 and declared independence. If only they had stayed virtual slaves under French rule, God would have been pleased and they would have been earthquake free.
This is line in with Robertson’s prior explanations of God’s wrath in terms of killing people in New Orleans and New York as God’s way of “vomiting” us out:
My only question is why we want to spend eternity with God if he is this horrible being filled with rage and wrath who speaks to guys like Pat Robertson? Isn’t God supposed to be better than us? Even my four-year-old does not hope that her classmates are wiped out in earthquakes when she is mad at them. If this were true, God would be in serious need for intense therapy over his anger issues and violent disposition. It is a bit hard to imagine Jesus saying “serve’s em right, Pop, for that stuff that their ancestors did over two hundred years ago.”
By the way, I missed that history lesson about how all of the Haitians swore a pact with the Devil. There are sacrificial and voodoo practices certainly on that island, but I was unaware that the whole revolution was one big Satanic movement.
There is no such “true story” about a nationwide pact with the devil. There were various revolutions by people like Padrejean in 1676 and François Mackandal in 1757. Robertson seems to be referring to Dutty Boukman who helped led the uprising in August 1791. He was a houngan, or Haitian priest, who held a traditional ceremony in which a pig (symbolizing the power of nature) was sacrificed and an oath administered to the fighters to be fearless in battle. However, accounts of his words notably omit Robertson’s alleged pact:
h! Eh! Bomba! Heu! Heu!
Canga, bafio té!
Canga, mouné de lé!
Canga, do ki la!
Canga, do ki la!
Canga, li!We swear to destroy the whites
and all they possess.
Let us die rather than fail
to keep this vow.
Indeed accounts have him referring to God not Satan for some old-fashioned wrathful justice (which would seem to appeal to Robertson:
“The god who created the sun which gives us light, who rouses the waves and rules the storm, though hidden in the clouds, he watches us. He sees all that the white man does. The god of the white man inspires him with crime, but our god calls upon us to do good works. Our god who is good to us orders us to revenge our wrongs. He will direct our arms and aid us. Throw away the symbol of the god of the whites who has so often caused us to weep, and listen to the voice of liberty, which speaks in the hearts of us all.”
For more on this oath, click here.
Of course, even if there was a pact with the Devil, God can really keep a grudge. Over two hundred years later, he kills over one hundred thousand people to teach their long-dead ancestors a lesson. I find that hard to believe, though I am warming to the idea of God sending Pat Robertson to punish us for our sins.
30%er,
Since you’re not the expert either, who appointed you to be the one to determine what is truth and what is nonsense? Are you going to claim that the majority can’t be wrong?
How often is your weatherman spot on with the 10 day forecast? Where do you think they get their information? How close could they get if they had to predict the average temperature for all of next year?
Weather prediction is not very accurate, and the longer period of time, the less accurate they are. Why some are so willing to believe their long range predictions is beyond me.
“I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, and I don’t think Byron is either. I don’t care if you want to believe it. You’re welcome to your opinion. I only have a problem when you belittle those who don’t share your opinion.” -duh
No, but I do tend to dismiss nonsense and I find those who push it suspect. I am fine discussing rational concepts with rational people as I think our discussion on Christianity and Robertson demonstrates. But I don’t abide nonsense. If you want to continue you’ll have to do it without me.
Talk about conspiracy theories.
Bdaman, Guh, Alan, etc
You really amuse yourself don’t you? I bet by the end of the day, you have to get a pin to pop that head of yours as it is so inflated.
Does your hand or back ever get sore from the amount of patting its does and gets?
Well said Duh,
I can only wish to be one day, as articulate as you.
Three Cheers Mate
“I’ll be in the Global Warming thread if you’d like to continue discussing this.”
Welcome back.
I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, and I don’t think Byron is either. I don’t care if you want to believe it. You’re welcome to your opinion. I only have a problem when you belittle those who don’t share your opinion. The science, and the facts supporting that science, are in dispute by those who are experts in the field. I’ve read the information presented by both sides and have concluded that more research needs to be perfromed, and better methods of obtaining the data must be put into place. Until that is achived, I am skeptical.
I’m all for going green, but in a troubled economy, I’m not ready to throw all of our resources at a problem that we aren’t sure we have any influence over.
You need to figure out that people who are just as intelligent as you, who are just as caring as you, and who have the same things at stake as you do, can disagree with you without being your enemy. The “bad guys” don’t have that many friends and they don’t bother discussing things on blogs. I’m sure you already know that you’re not going to win anyone over by calling them “silly”. So that must be used to try to keep others from thinking about the information. I welcome people to ask questions and explore all available information. If more people in this country asked more questions, and started examining all the information, we’d probably have a government that we could trust. That’s because they wouldn’t be able to continue fooling most of the voters.
I’ll be in the Global Warming thread if you’d like to continue discussing this.
Well since both of you by your own admission aren’t climate scientists your opinions on the issue don’t carry any weight.
Except in your ability to convince others I suppose.
Which leads us to our next thought. For what purpose do you two exhaust so much time into attempting to convince others that the scientific community is wrong in their conclusions? To what end?
So what if everyone embraces it? So what if we stop suckling off the oil teat?
So what if we’re no longer dependent on middle eastern terrorists for our nations energy needs?
So what if we invent new cars that don’t pump unbreathable filth into the air we breath?
What is it that drives you two so hard working to convince others that science is lying to them?
There’s the real question to ask.
Byron,
Good point. I guess what it really comes down to is that the arguments presented have not been strong enough to convince all of the scientific community, and when we find that lies were told to bolster the science it makes me want better research to be performed by a group that doesn’t have a stake in the results.
Duh:
Sham wows at least work and only cost a few bucks and you can choose to buy one or not buy one. In other words they are the product of a free association. There is no government coercion or force to compel you to buy one.
“NASA had used temperature records from the naturally hotter month of September and claimed they represented temperature figures in October.”
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ipcc-scientists-caught-producing-false-data-to-push-global-warming.html
I didn’t buy a ShamWow either.
I think this thread is really about who’s pushing an agenda. Pat Robertson surely is.
I Am Satan, Risen, Reborn and In the Flesh, a regular Christian, the Original Born Sinner and a BSer like you and anybody else.
I know youve heard “It is more Blessed to Give; than to Receive” Or that GOD Gave He/r only begotten Son, Jesus Christ 2 Give His Life as a Ranson” 4 Your Dumbasses. I guess you never thought GOD could or would then send He/r only begotten Daughter, His Twin & Sister Spirit Satan aka the anti Christ, Miss Christ or Mrs. Christ as the Receiver or one created as Mrs. Takes. Due to His Giving, I was cast down with Great Anger by GOD like a Trump card S/He had up Her sleeve all along. Now T/His Angel of Death is sent to Take your Life, Collect His Rent, Ransom aka the Final Judgement. (John 12:47-49 &15:26 -16:27)
Most dont know what a son of Doe Doe did or is so I’ll tell U. A Doe a is Deer a FeMale Dear, Ray a drop of golden son, Me a name I call myself, Far a long long way to run,…. Sew a needle pulling thread, La a note to follow So, Tea a drink with jam and B/Read. And it all leads us back to Doe, Ray, Me, Fa, So, La, T, Dough 4 U who dont know T/His T stands 4 His & T/He cross T.
Now you probably think what Ive said is Blasphemy, just like the Romans and Jews who sent Jesus to the Cross, because He said he was the Son of Man and Son of GOD. So I Am sure if God could beget a son using a normal virgin woman that GOD could beget a daughter & a wife for Him as He slept on T/He cross using a Mother of Harlots as SHe did in the Beginning with Adam
Well anyway, believe or not; I Am Satan Risen in accordance to the Book, Heb. 10:7-10 But I am known here as BurntOffering cause LOW I Come, IN THE FULL VOLUME OF THE BOOK, IT IS WRITTEN OF ME TO DO THY WILL O GOD.
So T/His is A Blast 4 Me because I know Jesus Christ saved the very Best and Last 4 U & me. Sio T/Heir 4 My Friends, Romans, Countrymen Lend Me Your Ear! As One greater than Soloman and the Queen of the South is Heir 4 all you Deaf, Dumb and Blind so called witnesses of His.
In Honor of the King of Kings & Lord of Lord, I say to you all to FEAR Almighty GOD. I Praise & Give Thanks to Our Fat Her in Heaven who sent ME in the name of the Lord. But before I go and in rememberance of Him and Martin Luther King I say:
Free At Last; Free At Last, ThanK GOD Almighty I was ReBorn Free; Black and Last, especially since its the Last that shall be 1st 2 Inherit the Kingdom & why GOD sent me 2nd & in the last hour
Peace out
30%er:
I am not looking for a debate on climate change. I believe something is going on but have no idea what it is.
Why is it that when someone has a disagreement it is always “right wing nuts” who are wrong? Did you ever stop and think “left wing nuts” can be just as wrong?
Neither side of an issue has a monopoly on truth unless it is settled science. And even “settled” science can be wrong until such time as more information is made available.
I don’t think I ever called you a left wing nut because of your views on Christianity and the question I asked initially was raised by someone I know. You seemed to have quite a good deal of Biblical knowledge and so I figured you would give some good insight. You did.
I especially enjoyed your thoughts on Constantine and his interpretation of Christianity for reasons of state.
Thats my story and I’m sticking to it.
They tell me if a thread naturally progresses to a different subject it’s o.k. You opened the door for that to happen with your comparison. Fine, If you look back over the thread there were many times the thread could have shifted to another subject.
“Bdaman = Neo-con troll nice 30%er, just call me a name and label me. What would jesus think of you doing that to someone who treated you with civility”
Well since Jesus had no problem labeling hypocrites as hypocrites I doubt he’d have a problem labeling a troll as a troll. And I didn’t say you were a troll. I said I was pretty sure you were.
And if you don’t like the label then a good way to avert it would be to stop acting like a troll.
There’s a perfectly good Global Warming thread on the cover of this blog. Its the newest thread. If you want to discuss global warming, then that is where you should be. Derailing this thread as you’ve done is the actions of a troll.
Bdaman = Neo-con troll nice 30%er, just call me a name and label me. What would jesus think of you doing that to someone who treated you with civility.
Unless that scientist you are quoting is you, then once more you’re just the bird repeating what it heard.
Maybe you should reread his credentials. He use to be part of that consensus you were talking about.
and if I don’t provide a link, take any part of what I post that points to a specific statement and google it. That way you do your own homework.
30%er:
I am a reformed troll but never neocon at least at core.”
Well then perhaps this was just a minor relapse.
The way to correct that is to stay on topic and not try to sell neoconservative ideas like denying global warming, or trying to derail the thread into a debate on global warming.
“30%er:
I am not a climate scientist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
Of course anything I say is strictly my opinion based on what I have read and heard. I could be totally wrong, in which case I will change my opinion to match the facts of reality, but then at that point it ceases to be an opinion/hypothesis and becomes settled science. Will you? Or will you keep denying reality to support an agenda?”
Byron, I was pretty aware that Bdaman was a neocon troll. I didn’t want to say anything as I wasn’t sure, but his posts seem to indicate that. At least some I’ve read. Yet he was polite with me and seemed to want to talk so I engaged him. For the most part he was civil and thus troll or not I’ll discuss the topics with anyone civil.
What I will not do is be dragged into an off topic debate on global warming as I’ve made clear now several times. Your uneducated opinion on global warming is just that. An uneducated opinion. When you are a scientist, let me know. But until then I and the rest of the world has readily available at our fingertips the consensus of the experts.
The only ones denying the majority consensus are the far right wing loons.That one or two scientists (most of whom have ties to the right wing or energy) deny it is moot. You’re not a scientist thus your interpretation of scientific data you are not trained in carries zero weight with me.
Implying I’m ignorant for accepting the global consensus on the matter doesn’t improve your standing. You’re not trained, thus your opinion is just an opinion. When you have a degree on the subject, let me know. Until then your uneducated opinion on the matter is irrelevant. And I’ve asked several times now for you to stay on topic and not try to derail this thread.
I’m starting to wonder if you also are a neocon troll.
I hope not. You seemed ok.