We often run Iranian blogs to show clown-like policies such as requiring Islamic haircuts or mannequin mascetomies. However, it is important to remember the plight of women and dissidents under Iran’s medieval Sharia system. There is no more frightening example than the scheduled stoning of Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani, 43, for conducting an “illicit relationship outside marriage.” Convicted in May 2006, Ashtiani has already been given 99 lashes under her Sharia sentence.
She was originally acquitted, but under the Iranian “legal system” a judge is allowed to reverse such decisions based on “judge’s knowledge.” She has been in jail for five years and will now be buried up to her neck (men are buried to the waist) and then stoned to death.
Source: Guardian.
Ruba:
did you ever bother to ask yourself why the United States is a rich country? Africa has far more raw materials than we do and they are a basket case. Likewise most of the Islamic countries.
There is no hope in Islamic countries because they are totalitarian and they are totalitarian because of their religion. It actually is quite simple. The issues you mention are only symptoms of the disease of totalitarianism/collectivism.
But go ahead and think it is someone else’s fault if that makes you feel better about yourself and your genetic heritage.
byron, I clearly stated that I do not wish to go into remedial arguments, i.e. I don’t wish to go into epxlaining basic concepts in regard to religion, culture and who did what first… 911 did not happen before a whole host of other things took place (please understand I am not justifying it, I am saying that is how it was justified by someone or some people)… I realize I can be patient and go ahead explain it and provide references and links, but honestly I am too old for this and I only check this blog for 15 minutes and I don’t wish to spend too much more time on it… so I will leave it at, well pretty much ignoring it…
for the people who keep on wondering why moderate muslims are not doing anything… well look at what happened in egypt during the arab nationalist movement (i.e. moderate secular movement)… secondly, moderate or not, when the country is in turmoil, constantly at war or in a region that is kept unstable, the country is under sanctions, can’t trade with one country or another due to alliances, unemployment rate is high etc… priorities shift… food, shelter, school become the number one priority… rocking the boat to fix the country at the price of your life or your family’s life is not exactly your highest priority…
additionally, ask yourself how did the current government in iran come about in the first place! did it not come as a result of the united states and england backing up the shah in order to control the oil in the country? do you think the reign of the “moderate” shah was much better back then? that is why the people supported the muslim hardliners in overthrowing the shah… now, well, they know they don’t want another shah, so they will turn the blind eye on what the gov. does..
you guys make it sound as if there are no dissidents anywhere in the world and that no one is doing anything about the local governments or challenging religion and laws… but you wouldn’t know anyway, otherwise why would you ask ‘what does the united state has to do with it’…
it is very easy to judge when you are few thousand miles away enjoying the luxuries of a rich country where you can wahtever you please fairly safely…
Speaking of original subjects . . .
UPDATE:
“The Iranian Embassy in London on Thursday denied reports by media and human rights groups that a convicted adulterer would face death by stoning for her crime.
The execution of Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani, 43, who has already spent five years in prison and received 99 lashes for alleged adultery, would “disgust and appall the watching world,” the British Government declared, according to a report Thursday in U.K. newspaper The Times.
Later Thursday, the Iranian Embassy took issue with those comments, releasing its own statement that ‘according to information from the relevant judicial authorities in Iran, she will not be executed by stoning punishment.’ It was uncertain if Ashtiani would face death by another means.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38140909/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/
Sounds like someone in I’madinnerjacket’s office understands barbarism can be bad PR.
equalizer–
You make an excellent point.
Oftentimes at the Turley Blawg, we get into discussions on different topics that may not speak specifically to the subject of a particular post. I find it interesting to see where some discussions lead us. One can always steer the conversation back to the original subject.
What does this have to do with the U.S.?? This woman is going to be tortured to death! Her eyes will be shredded, her teeth will be knocked out, her nose will be broken. It is almost too painful to imagine what she will experience. Why aren’t moderate Muslims around the world taking to the streets and protesting this? They find the time to protest cartoons of Mohammad, but not this??
Elaine:
Henry pointed out to me that I may be wrong on my thoughts and he seems to be correct based on what I can find on the web. It appears that at most about 25% are bad actors who should remain incarcerated.
The passing of the Patriot Act logically lead to Jane Mayer’s conclusion. But then what we ended up with is the logical conclusion of compassionate conservatism as practiced by George Bush and his gang. They spout the same self sacrifice and nationalism that many totalitarian collectivists do.
Henry–
Right. I stand corrected. I didn’t word my comment properly. People are abducted and then–through extraordinary rendition–taken to “black sites”–where many have been tortured.
Elaine M. — just a technical point, but I believe that extraordinary rendition refers to sending people to other countries that we know will probably torture them. It does not refer to how we get custody of them (kidnapping or otherwise) in the first place.
Byron–
You said:
The people we have in holding cells are the same ones that are willing to stone this woman. They are lawless and do not respect any type of rights. They only recognize Sharia Law which is no law at all, it is the interpretation of the writings of Quran. So in actuality it is man’s law. Interpreted by whomever is in power to their benefit.
Based on what they are willing to do and how they were captured I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. During WWII they would have been shot on site because they were not wearing uniforms of a specific country. Seems to me our grandfathers knew how to handle things better than we do.
**********
Some people that we have held captive have been guilty–some have not. Some of our captives were handed over to us for money. We also abducted people through a program called extraordinary rendition. These people who were kidnapped were brought to “black sites” in other countries where they were tortured. Some of those who were abducted and tortured were also innocent victims. In fact, one of the innocent victims was a Canadian citizen who was abducted from an airport in the US.
One book that I would recommend to you is Jane Mayer’s “The Dark Side: The Inside Story of How the War on Terror Turned into a War on American Ideals.”
Ruba:
I was responding in kind to your knee jerk reactionary, America bad third world dictators good argument.
But good way to avoid answering, typical BS when you don’t know how to answer a simple statement. You must be a liberal arts college professor trained in the 60’s on radical pablum.
I hope I am always in the process of acquiring knowledge and learning even if I make it to 95. I have met many like you in that the last book they read was in their senior year in college and it was probably by some follower of Marx or Fourier.
Byron,
I am assuming you are a very young person and are still in the process of learning and acquiring knowledge?
please spare me the remedial arguments..
in our Gulf….
After we steal all of the oil and other things from Iran, how about we take time and look i our Gulf.
AP IMPACT: Gulf awash in 27,000 abandoned wells
The AP investigation uncovered particular concern with 3,500 of the neglected wells — those characterized in federal government records as “temporarily abandoned.”
Regulations for temporarily abandoned wells require oil companies to present plans to reuse or permanently plug such wells within a year, but the AP found that the rule is routinely circumvented, and that more than 1,000 wells have lingered in that unfinished condition for more than a decade. About three-quarters of temporarily abandoned wells have been left in that status for more than a year, and many since the 1950s and 1960s — even though sealing procedures for temporary abandonment are not as stringent as those for permanent closures.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100707/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill_abandoned_wells
Bryon,
So are the the really Orthodox Jews, the Quakers, Amish etc….
ruba:
“and if you truly believe that people of those nations are incapable of changing those trends on their own, then you are lying to yourself and history is there to contradict you…”
No, Islam has been around since the 700’s and they are still in the dark ages. It has nothing to do with the US but with Islam itself. Lest you forget we were savagely attacked and responded with greater force and had a moral right to do so. If you don’t want your ass kicked you don’t mess with the 300 lb martial arts expert.
The tenets of Islam are at base totalitarian and illiberal (which can be said of other fundamentalist religious orders). There will be no change until more liberal Muslims step forward and chastise those who use Islam for their own power and control.
I would be very bored if mockery were outlawed.
Nah! Who am I kidding?
I’d be an outlaw.
I agree with ruba on this issue. Neither the United States nor any other country can “liberate” Iran (or Iraq or Afghanistan)from a medieval legal system that thrives on fear and ignorance. I view the gradual decline of sharia law to be inevitable, but it will have to come in its own time. Nationalism will always trump imperialism, whether real or perceived. The Iranian people are perfectly capable of finding their own way forward. Having said that, I also believe that if free speech is to have any meaning, we must resist the growing effort to immunize religious beliefs from criticism, even mockery.
“Me and my brother against my cousin; me and my cousin against the other.” is an Arab notion that tribal loyalty works in levels.
see, it is really simple, when foreign entities like the united states, england or france (with the united states being the most active today) meddle in the affairs of other countries for financial interests under the cover of “freeing the people” and “stopping oppression” or whatever stupid claim they make, the people will start supporting their oppressive governments and will stop making internal improvements. a lot of people would prefer the oppression of their governments than the oppression of foreign governments that is stealing their money or using them for military basis or whatever else..
so psychologically, people will turn the blind eye to this sort of stupidity until the right time if it ever comes…
so now, because they support their government they get classified as religious fanatics or stupid or controlled etc… when the populous is simply saying: I don’t want you (foreing entity) in my country and I can do whatever I want!
off course the colonizers like to pretend that they are there to free up people when in reality they are only there for financial benefits because 1. they almost always take the democratically elected person down and replace him by a thug who will keep the people in worse conditions that they once were… but this happen when and only when the country provide some benefits to them…
colored people are not stupid, the fact that non colored people believe that they know what is better for everyone else is the danger here
so until the united states stops its unnecessary meddling in the middle east and iran to protect its interests people are not going to be standing up against stoning, stupid laws against hair cuts, cutting people arms or whatever else…
and if you truly believe that people of those nations are incapable of changing those trends on their own, then you are lying to yourself and history is there to contradict you…
W/C,
Are there real men in the Arabic World? Or all of them misogynists? That is the real question……
“Sharia Law also states that if they can get OUT of the hole they wll be spared. That’s why men r only buried to their waist and women are buried to their necks. ”
OMG…is this true? misogynistic pricks (if it is….)…. gives real men a bad name. I’m surprised such a blatant show of cowardice would be accepted…