To the delight of civil libertarians and libertarians alike, the Canadian courts have been leading the world in dealing with conflicts between privacy principles and morality legislation. I am serving as an expert in the review of Canadian polygamy laws in British Columbia. In the meantime, the Ontario Superior Court may allow three prostitution laws to die this Saturday.
In September, the Court struck down the laws. The federal government is charging that this is nothing short of a “social experiment unprecedented in this country.” However, it is also a frank acknowledgment that consenting adults came engage in sex for money as a consensual choice. Currently, an individual can have sex with any number of partners but can be arrested if they accept anything of value in exchange for sex. They can receive gifts as part of a “relationship” no matter how fleeting but not as payment.
The Court previously noted that criminal laws force prostitutes in the shadows where they are easy prey for abuse and even homicides. Once legal, protections and regulations can apply to the world’s oldest profession. With the demise of the laws, street walking will be legal.
Source: Star
Jonathan Turley
@ Canadian Eh
So what happened with the legalization in Ontario since the blog started?
How far is this from Toronto?
How many prostitutes have your informally interviewed first hand?
How would you estimate the age breakdown?
under 15
15-20
21-25
26-30
30+
How would you estimate national origin?
North American Aboriginal
Immigrant non U.S.
Somalian
U.S. born
Born in Ontario
Aboriginal
What percentage of prostituted acts do you think are performed in
apartments
cars
streets and parks
hotels
locations with more than 10 prostitutes
What percentage of prostitutes you have encountered are male?
Do you think that prostitutes are aware that there might be mental health programs that could benefit them?
Good morning to you, Canadian. Your experience with working with prostitutes has added valuable information to this debate. You bring reality not fantasy to the debate.
Swarthmore Mom….
Good morning to you.
The laws pertaining to application for SA actually varies from province to province as SA ( and health care is actually governed by the provincial governments. I am sorry, I don’t know the specifics across Canada, with the exception of Ontario & BC. In BC, a person must be a resident for a period of 3 months before they are able to apply for health care and SA, however I believe this only applies to Canadian citizins. In terms of immigration, a person actually has to be sponsored by a Canadian Citizin or a Canadian employer to even enter the country with the intent to stay. The sponsor has to be able to prove that they will be able to support the immigrant….there are a lot of immigration laws/criteria that has to be met in order to come and actually stay.
With regard to people being smuggled into Canada as sex slaves, I honestly know anything about that. I would suspect if a person was in this situation, and able to escape their captures then find a police station, they would be helped. I also suspect that they would receive assistance from a womens’ program until arrangments could be made to send them home…if it was safe to do so. Again I suspect, that if it was unsafe for that woman to be sent home, SA and health care would be made available to that person.
” See, what needs to happen with prostitutes in Canada is first, legalize their trade so that they get protection under the law, and then organize them so they make some decent money. They need a union! And while you may be ROFLYAS by this point, I’m serious as a heart attack about it. Then if men or prostitutes want to take their chance in an alley for $5.00 that’s on them. ” Lotakatz
Good Morning to you.
In theory I actually agree with you. De-criminalization could actually work in the favour of sex workers….if done properly. However, as I explained above, with respect to the escort services that have been operating here in Ontario for years, workers need to meet specific physical criteria. I don’t believe that this will change…..the most attractive applicants will get the jobs. This leaves a lot of people out in the cold….quite literally. Yes, this is true of a number of occupations where one is ” serving ” the general public. An attractive waiter/waitress is more likely to be working at the high end restaurant and earning the higher tips than a less attractive server who may be working at a diner receiving 25 cent tips.
Any number of services have higher and lower end outlets and often the more attractive people, with the same skill sets, are hired at the higher enders. The difference for sex workers can, however, be fatal. If a less attractive sex worker is not able to be hired with an escort service, their choice is the streets or find another line of work. My personal experience has been with women who have suffered abuses at an early age who have absolutely 0 self esteem and often suffer from body dysmorphic disorder. Others have engaged in self harming behaviours and have bodies covered in horrific scars and tattoos. Some, because of their mental health disorders do not have the hygiene skils to keep themselves looking….or smelling very good. many of those women may not even apply to the escort services because they KNOW that they will NOT meet the physical criterea.
While de-criminalization may mean that ALL sex workers will have access to police services I don’t believe we have the man power here in Ontario to provide the degree of safety necessary to protect sex workers on the streets. For the record, I also do not believe that the sex workers themselves should face criminal charges.
This is such a contentious question that seems to revolve around and around and never come up with a viable answer. You cant please all of the people all of the time and on this one it is so diverse that I am not sure ever if there is any answer that will sooth everyone.
Canadien EH: I have a question about immigrant women being smuggled into prostitution. It has been found that in Amsterdam most of the prostitutes are immigrants from Eastern Europe. At what point would someone who was smuggled into Canada as a prostitute be able to free herself and receive state sponsored benefits?
Canadian Eh:
from your post it sounds like it pays to be an addict.
Annie:
“Your paternalism is showing Tony. Woman needs psychiatric help because she does not agree that prostitution is a rewarding career.”
Typical shtick around these parts, someone with whom you disagree is a deranged psychotic. Mostly people who are not liberal in their thinking are deranged psychotics.
I am wondering if it isn’t the case of the ones who scream the loudest?
If you post here with a differing point of view, get used to being told you need psychiatric help.
I think they cant handle the premise that most people don’t think like them, therefore people who don’t must be crazy. They are in the minority after all.
Relying on research data alone with no current or geographical personal experience is what leads to misinforming!
Oh, and TonyC…. I am neither misinformed or misinforming. I am well informed. I have to be. Unlike researchers, who may face embarassment for misinformation, I face having the knowledge that someone who I work with has gone without because I was not informed.
ooops I accidently hit ” enter ”
contd…..
$10 will buy a pack of cigarettes, or a gram of pot
$15 will buy a cheap bottle of wine
$25 will buy 1 Tylenol #3 with codine, a few benzos, or a ritalin tab
$50 will buy an oxy, perc, or morphine tab, meth, X
( the prices continue to raise based on the drug of choice )
You see in Ontario if a person qualifies as disabled ( and yes, an addiction qualifies as a disability here )they receive $1051.00 / single person /month from the Prov. govt. If one does not qualify for disability they are entitled to receive Ontario Works ( Welfare ) in the amount of $600 / month for a single person. Both of these amounts increase based on the number of persons in a family unit. In addition, if a person has children they receive, from the federal government a ” child tax credit ” deposit monthly which is approximately $200 / child per month for a person collecting social assistance. Quarterly, people who qualify ( essentailly people on social assistance ) receive a $65 ‘ HST credit ‘ amount deposited into their bank accounts. Every 6 months, in Ontario, a family receives $335 and a single person receives $100 from the government in order to offset the recent Harmonized Sales Tax. In addition, the average annual tax refund for peopl on SA ( who do not pay any taxes ) is $200 – $500 based on the amount of rent that they pay.
We have a publicly funded social housing program which charges rent in the amount of 30% of one’s income, the remainder of the rent amount is subsidized by the municipal government. The rental units that are subsidized are not all located in ” slum ” areas but rather are available all over the city including sub-divisions and our rural areas…so people have the choice of where they want to live, as they should ( based, of coarse on availability )in apartments, town houses or houses amoung every other Ontario citizin. In other words, in Ontario we don’t create 1 particular area to ” store ” all of the people who need to rely on the system a.k.a ” the projects “. If people are not fortunate enough to have a ” sub ” rent ( we do have lengthy wait lists at this time ) local churches and social programs are available to offer assistance from time to time (this is also the case for utility payments ). FYI, people who are homeless, and battered women/children take priority on these wait lists and are housed at shelters until such time that a sub unit becomes available.
In addition to the above, all health care is free for people on social assistance, this includes prescription drug benefits, dental care, vision care – eye glasses, physiotherapy ( if ordered by a GP ), prosthetics, hearing aids, in home nursing care ( if needed ), additional monies for special diets as ordered by GP’s ( for diabetics, heart pts etc.,) orthotics and medical supplies. FYI the extended health care benefits listed above are only available free of charge for people on SA and Seniors, those of us who work pay for theose benefits out of pocket or through private insurance plans.
In every city in Ontario there are well stocked food banks located at designated / publicly funded food bank centres, churches and community programs available for use AS NEEDED. In our city there are churches that provide hot meals for lunch & dinners every day of the week…including Christmas. During the holiday season, in the city that I live in, every person who meets the financial criteria ( this includes ppl on SA as well as the ” working poor ” ) are able to apply to the Salvation Army to receive a Christmas hamper full of all the goodies necessary for a beautiful Christmas dinner as well as treats to last through the season. There are organizations ( in this city ) that hold ” toy drives “, and ” winter clothing ” drives at this time of year. Again, people meeting the financial criteria can apply to these organizations to receive Christmas toys and winter clothing for every child under 16 in their care. During the summer months these same organizations hold ” back to School ” drives where they ask for and receive donations for school supplies all packaged nicely into backpacks for every child of every famiily who applies for and, again, meets the financial criteria. If you were wondering, for all of the above donation programs only new ( still having the store tag ) items are accepted.
As you can see the government, and the public as a whole, ensure that the basic needs ( and then some ) of people who are less fortunate are more than met here in Ontario. So tell me now, other than to purchase drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes OR for the mere enjoyment, why would any person HAVE to work as a sex worker here in Ontario?
@ Tony…..if you’d like a breakdown of what exactly $5 – %25 per trick can buy for the women employed as sex workers with whom I have had contact with for mental health / addictions services here you go…..$5 buys 1 pot joint
Since I’m the cop that often busts your lurid pantsless trolling behavior, it’s only appropriate.
Kinda like a photobomb of your mugshot.
Ha Ha fitting that the BIL Avatar appears at the end of the sentence. NICE !!!!!
You get caught with your pants down around here all the time, bdaman.
If the customer has become a “sex addict” as many are and needs frequent contact with prostitutes to fullfill his fantasies, the family will pick up on this.
I haven’t been caught yet 🙂 but I’m sure if I ever am, It will be with my pants down 🙂
Tony C: I think Annie is partially right. Maybe a child would not pick up on a visit once or twice to a prostitute. If the customer has become a “sex addict” as many are and needs frequent contact with prostitutes to fullfill his fantasies, the family will pick up on this.
@katz: After legalization, a Sex Workers Union could be a good idea. It would allow for some standardization of wages, standard commissions for agents (like madams or pimps), negotiated room rates, and with enough memebers the union itself could hire full-time attorneys willing to specialize in the laws that can be used to defend union members vigorously.
I am always suspect of public defenders. I have no evidence of wrong-doing, but I think public defender is something attorneys volunteer to do when they have no clients, kind of like the minimum fee fill-gap work attorneys can do to keep the lights on. I think there is some monetary incentive for them to just plea out and move on.
(Any attorneys out there feel free to educate my ignorant ass.)
Blouise, “next logical step”, exactly.
I saw the documentary “Live Nude Girls Unite” a few years ago and it’s a good movie and downright inspiring. If you get a chance to see it, it’s well worth the time.
From IMDB:
Storyline
Documentary look at the 1996-97 effort of the dancers and support staff at a San Francisco peep show, The Lusty Lady, to unionize. Angered by arbitrary and race-based wage policies, customers’ surreptitious video cameras, and no paid sick days or holidays, the dancers get help from the Service Employees International local and enter protracted bargaining with the union-busting law firm that management hires. We see the women work, sort out their demands, and go through the difficulties of bargaining. The narrator is Julia Query, a dancer and stand-up comedian who is reluctant to tell her mother, a physician who works with prostitutes, that she strips.
lotta,
There are a million other benefits to unionization that I won’t bother to mention for I know you know what they are.