Submitted by: Mike Spindell, guest blogger
“People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?” Rodney King 5/1/92
The arguments and divisions politically here and throughout this country are rampant and destructive. Anger and hatred of others of differing opinions rises at times to fever pitch and I admit that I am part of the problem as much as anyone else is. This is a somewhat different piece in that I am going to present some national problems, as I see them and elicit your comments on them, in an attempt to discover whether there is some common ground agreement, on some things plaguing our society. While I am more interested in whether or not people agree that these are indeed problems for us all to consider and work to solve, it is certainly apropos for people to comment on what they believe the solutions to be.
This is an experiment on the viability of people agreeing on the premise that a problem exists in a given area. We cannot begin to resolve issues, unless we first agree that they are issues to be contemplated by the entire body politic. My hope is to engender real, civil discussion and perhaps at the end reach something like consensus. This is not a plea for Bi-Partisanship because to me that is a fantasy, whoever may utter it. To be “partisan” is to hold strong opinions and srong opinions do not resolve themselves into agreement. The resolution reached by “partisans” is always one of compromise, without either side changing their core beliefs, but agreeing to take part of the loaf. I am “experimenting” to see if many of the diverse viewpoints represented here can at least agree that a specific issue is indeed a problem, or if it is indeed an issue. Beyond writing this, I will not take part in the ensuing discussion, since the formulation itself indicates my views on whether these are indeed problems. I will limit my questions to legal issues, with no particular order of importance intended.
A. Does the fact that we have the highest incarceration rate of any nation in the world indicate a problem?
B. Given the overcrowding and long delays inherent in our legal system, do we need to do something to reform it?
C. Have our Constitutional Rights been diminished?
D. Has the policing authority both State and Locally been extended beyond permissible bounds.
E. Has the War on Drugs been a failure and added to addiction rather than restricting it?
F. From the perspective of criminal/civil procedure, has the Right to Privacy been terminated and/or restrictively diminished?
G. Does State and Federal Government have the right to criminalize non-coercive sexual acts between adults?
H. Should the States and Federal Government admit the “War on Drugs” is a failure and seek new methods to deal with addiction?
As an illustration of what I am looking for I will present this. FFLEO and I both voted for Barack Obama, even though FFLEO and I have very different political and partisan beliefs. Yet we both agree that he has been an awful President. Where we respectfully disagree is that he has stated he will never vote for Obama again and I have stated I might, if there are no alternatives that seem viable. The most important element is that we, though vastly different politically, agree on the nature of the problem. With that agreement, there comes a mutual respect and a future hope of resolution, even though one is not now apparent or even likely. If there is no agreement on whether something is at least a problem, then the legacy of that disagreement is ongoing, unresolved strife.
Submitted by: Mike Spindell, guest blogger
@swarthmore mom….
I see no reason to help the Republicans repeal the New Deal, and Obama seems intent on doing that on his own for his own reasons (see Greenwald).
However, once they get there, I will gladly help see the Republic unzip even further past Santa Clara vs. Southern Pacific.
And with a population of 350M, I’m okay with unzipping to where States can legally secede. And no, I don’t see that as making slavery legal anywhere.
One of the true problems of government is the scale required to govern 350M+.
A. Does the fact that we have the highest incarceration rate of any nation in the world indicate a problem?
Hell yes!
B. Given the overcrowding and long delays inherent in our legal system, do we need to do something to reform it?
Hell yes!
C. Have our Constitutional Rights been diminished?
Hell yes!
D. Has the policing authority both State and Locally been extended beyond permissible bounds.
Hell yes!
E. Has the War on Drugs been a failure and added to addiction rather than restricting it?
Hell yes!
F. From the perspective of criminal/civil procedure, has the Right to Privacy been terminated and/or restrictively diminished?
Hell yes!
G. Does State and Federal Government have the right to criminalize non-coercive sexual acts between adults?
Hell no but hell yes!
H. Should the States and Federal Government admit the “War on Drugs” is a failure and seek new methods to deal with addiction?
Hell yes!
@swarthmore mom,
“anon Do you really think Obama is more harmful than Rick Perry?”
Yes. I absolutely do.
With Rick Perry in place, Democrats would oppose anti-democratic, anti-civil liberty policies.
With President Obama in place, Democrats vote to support, sustain, and put in place anti-democratic, anti-civil liberty policies.
The 12 minute ‘Reverend’ Perry Prayer video is on this page.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/us/politics/07prayer.html
Agree,FFLEO
Mike Spindell,
I posited some the religious aspects of politics because I think that is a critical reason why we cannot get along. Anytime large groups of people base everything that can occur on religious faith alone—instead of using logic, reason, and science—reasonable, educated people simply cannot debate the issues with them in any meaningful, problem-solving format.
Culheath,
A professor of mine at Duke used to say that there are three kinds of mathematicians: those that can count and the other kind. (Alternately, there are 10 kinds of computer scientists: those that count in binary and the other kind…)
Did you catch that last line? It is the money quote:
Hope this fits in with the discussion and not too far off topic.
The Yahoo news page has a story on the S&P downgrade and assesses responsibility.
The article also says:
The whole article is worth a read.
Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daniel-gross/u-credit-rating-victim-gop-sabotage-021622372.html
anon Do you really think Obama is more harmful than Rick Perry?
Slartibartfast
“Certainly it will never happen if no one tries.”
The only politicians who might even consider trying, don’t have the clout needed, and it’s naive in the extreme to think the MSM would lend their support.
Lots of theoretically good solutions, but in the real world, they don’t stand a chance.
@slarti,
See that’s the thing. Mr. Miyagi and I think that Obama (and our current system) is of course more harmful than an actual Democrat and even more harmful than a Republican.
Miyagi: Walk on road, hm? Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later
[makes squish gesture]
Miyagi: get squish just like grape.
And that’s where we are today.
More on potential presidential candidate Perry…he was not a good college student–guess he did not *pray* hard enough…
_____________
“A&M wasn’t exactly Harvard on the Brazos River,”
Rick Perry’s College Transcript: A Lot Of Cs And Ds
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html
“I dont think we can ever get along, there is a fundamental difference on how each side sees the world.”
There are two kinds of people in the world; those who think there are two kinds of people in the world and those who don’t.
The trick is being able to transcend your own practiced belief system and engage the other via empathy. You can spot the sociopaths by their lack of this ability.
anon, Disagree. I really don’t want to see Rick Perry or Mitt Romney elected. Voted for Gore not Nader in 2000.
Slarti:
I take the efficacy of the scientific method not on unsuported faith but on my assessment of the utter futility of the alternatives when compared to it. That the scientific method has provided us the most remarkable progress we’ ve seen in our lifetime certainly adds to my confidence.
tom,
Certainly it will never happen if no one tries. Anyway, I’m done for now – be back later…
anon,
Your reasoning assumes that President Obama is no less harmful than the eventual Republican nominee. I don’t think this will be the case.
Slartibartfast
Wrong. What I’m saying is that it ain’t gonna happen.
Mespo,
We all take things on faith (mostly, I put my faith in the scientific method). I suspect, if I put it to the test, that Dr. King’s words would be borne out empirically – but I haven’t done it, so my certainty derives from faith rather than empiricism. I don’t see anything wrong with that.