-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger
Paul Ryan, Republican nominee for Vice President, said he believes that states should have the right to determine if prayer in public schools is allowed. In response to a question from a campaign volunteer, Ryan said that’s “a constitutional issue of the states.” Prayer in public schools is a hot-button issue for religious conservatives. Was Ryan simply pandering to the Republican base or does he truly not support the separation of church and state?
While any student can silently pray during school, that’s not the kind of prayer that the religious right is talking about. They want the kind of prayer that is foisted upon young minds by school authority figures. Those in the classroom are a captive audience, compelled by law to attend.
In the case of Engel v. Vitale (1962), the Supreme Court found that a New York state law, directing a School District’s principal to cause a prayer to be said aloud by each class in the presence of a teacher, was “wholly inconsistent with the Establishment Clause.” The Court noted that the First Amendment was “made applicable to the State of New York by the Fourteenth Amendment of the said Constitution.”
Ryan goes on to say that the decision to say a prayer is the “moral responsibility of parents.” However, a government sponsored prayer violates the very parental responsibility he claims to support. The decision not to say a prayer is also the responsibility of parents. A child should neither be pressured to pray nor pressured not to pray. Religious parents would scream bloody murder if their child was pressured not to pray, but these same parents have no qualms when pressuring other children to pray.
Government sponsored prayer in public schools is a blatant attempt to refresh and reinforce religious beliefs of the children of religious parents and indoctrinate the children of parents who have different beliefs.
H/T: Steve M., New York Times, Americans United.
Matt,
LOL for lots you write. It was not the drinkin’,it was the Sen-Sen he chewed. Do you even know what it is? And don’t go peeking in Wikipedia this time, that’s cheating.
LOL ..Matt… Good one..
Jim Jones
Interesting . . . never been in moderation here before. Wonder whats in the previous post that triggered that?
Darren Smith: “I wish the Republican Party would just simply walk away from the abortion issue, stop pandering to the pro-religion cause, and become the party to clean up the environment. I feel if they accepted these three causes they would do much better in the elections.”
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Darren, That is the Republican Party now. They have remade themselves. They can’t walk away from who they are.
Teji Malik 1, September 8, 2012 at 2:42 pm
He wants his Christian ilk to learn at their young ages, how to bribe because that is what prayer stands for.
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Is that what everybody stands for? I won’t put my head on the floor, and I won’t stand on my knees.
Religion is a cult. It really doesn’t mean anything.
Poor Paul, he was born with a dead brain up his arse. First he lied about his running a marathon under 3 hours- a great feat if it were correct, As an ex- marathon runner, I know all my times.
Then he did not tell his clappers (the word not being used figuratively), that he voted NO on Simpson-Bowles and blamed Obama for not doing anything. Had he voted YES, it would be under implementation. It only needed one vote which belonged to Paul Ryan- the man who loves men in long frocks. He also lied about the $760billion that Obama “stole” from Medicare without mentioning that he had the same in his own bill which would come out from the beneficiaries, unlike Obama’s which would come out from the providers.
Now, he wants prayer in public schools. LOL. It is hillarious indeed.
He wants his Christian ilk to learn at their young ages, how to bribe because that is what prayer stands for.
rafflaw 1, September 8, 2012 at 2:36 pm
I forgto to add that if you want your child to be able to pray at school, send him to a priviate or parochial school.
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No prayer at school.
I forgto to add that if you want your child to be able to pray at school, send him to a priviate or parochial school.
bettykath,
I agree that a visit to the mosque is educational, an invitation to pray on school time as a class is not right.
Malisha, interesting video.
It seems the Muslims are joining various Christian sects in looking for converts. Missionaries go all over the world looking for converts, frequently volunteering to teach school. Some have come to my door.
I applaud the school for giving the students the opportunity to visit the mosque. It was unwise for the boys to be invited to pray. The school should make sure it doesn’t happen again. If the boys want to pray to allah, they can return on their own.
bettykath 1, September 8, 2012 at 2:03 pm
Matt,
“What if the Muslims have their own loud speakers? Can they make they same argument?”
If churches can call their faithful with bells, I see no reason Muslims couldn’t call their faithful with their own loud speakers under the same noise rules.
The church across the road used to ring its bell every Sunday a couple of pastors ago. The bell ringer was a energic pre-teen, then teen. Newest pastor doesn’t bother. His oldest is only 5 or 6. If they stick around I may hear the bell again in 8-10 years, or not. A church in the city has a contraption that plays bell-like music. It’s just loud noise up close but quite nice a couple of blocks away.
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The Muslims don’t get to call prayer three times a day in the United States. Freedom of speech and religion being what it is.
idealist707 1, September 8, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Protestant agnostic. I would say the same, but at what póint were you protestant?
I never was. My mom said go with the evangelic neighbors and try it. Motherly duty. I dropped out after two Sundays. The father chewed SenSen. Yech!
Wonder if he drank?
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I was born Protestant. I only went to church when my maternal grandmother forced me to.
I drink whatever I want.
Matt,
“What if the Muslims have their own loud speakers? Can they make they same argument?”
If churches can call their faithful with bells, I see no reason Muslims couldn’t call their faithful with their own loud speakers under the same noise rules.
The church across the road used to ring its bell every Sunday a couple of pastors ago. The bell ringer was a energic pre-teen, then teen. Newest pastor doesn’t bother. His oldest is only 5 or 6. If they stick around I may hear the bell again in 8-10 years, or not. A church in the city has a contraption that plays bell-like music. It’s just loud noise up close but quite nice a couple of blocks away.
Prayer:
Want prayer in the public schools? It’s not such a far-fetched idea.
Prayer, which prayer?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7-I9Qp3d4Y
Protestant agnostic. I would say the same, but at what póint were you protestant?
I never was. My mom said go with the evangelic neighbors and try it. Motherly duty. I dropped out after two Sundays. The father chewed SenSen. Yech!
Wonder if he drank?
Elsie DL 1, September 8, 2012 at 12:54 pm
Thank you for using that most ‘adorable’ picture of Paul Ryan. Every time I see one of him like it I feel nauseous. He looks like an innocent altar boy.
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He isn’t an innocent alter boy. Perhaps you should hit him on the knuckles with a stick.
Matthew 6 >> 1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
King James Version.
Prayer is a state of mind. That means prayer can be anywhere with whoever not even knowing it.
Thank you for using that most ‘adorable’ picture of Paul Ryan. Every time I see one of him like it I feel nauseous. He looks like an innocent altar boy.
Malisha,
I think I went to school the same time you did. I’m not Jewish, I’m a Protestant agnostic.