Our erstwhile ally in Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai is responding to the brutal murder of U.S. ambassador to Libya J. Christopher Stevens and three other embassy staff in Benghazi on Wednesday. Stevens was reportedly suffocated to death by the attacking mob which attacked the consulate because of a small film shown in the United States that was deemed as insulting to the Muhammad. Karzai then offered his own take on the murders by denouncing the “inhuman and abusive act” of the . . . filmmakers.
President Obama heralded Stevens as someone who “[t]hroughout the Libyan revolution, he selflessly served our country and the Libyan people at our mission in Benghazi . . . and supported Libya’s transition to democracy. His legacy will endure wherever human beings reach for liberty and justice. I am profoundly grateful for his service to my administration, and deeply saddened by this loss.”
Afghan President Hamid Karzai then stepped forward to denounce the “inhuman and abusive act” of the filmmakers and criticized them for causing “enmity and confrontation between the religions and cultures of the world.” I have not seen this film and have little interest in doing so. However, those filmmakers have a right to portray Muhammad in any fashion that they wish. It is the basis for free speech. The continued pattern of Muslim extremists killing people as a protest to intolerance is facially absurd and little more than a rationalization for violence. For Karzai to pick up on that theme demonstrates his fundamental disagreement with key free speech and free exercise values. It also shows the dangers of the Obama Administration’s effort to create an international blasphemy standard with its Muslim allies.
The Obama Administration has been working to develop an international standard for blasphemy prosecutions. The West has steadily yielded to the demands of religious groups that free speech must be curtailed in the name of faith. At the same time, Western governmental and religious leaders have denounced agnostics and atheists as one of the greatest threats facing the West (here and here and here and here). President Obama and Hillary Clinton have been facilitating this trend by working with Muslim nations to develop an international standard allowing for the prosecution of those who insult religion. The Administration has drawn a dangerous line with Muslim countries in first supporting the concept of an international blasphemy standard. As I have mentioned before, the efforts of the Obama Administration to work with these countries on an international blasphemy standard is a threat to free speech around the world. After first supporting an international blasphemy standard, the Administration sought to get Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and other countries to adopt the Brandenburg standard as the basis for such prosecutions. This case also shows why the use of the Brandenburg standard is so dangerous in the hands of such officials who view free speech as the cause of imminent violence. Past cases show that even the suggestion of blasphemy is enough to trigger violent riots in some Muslim nations. Because any joke or image of the Prophet can trigger violence, the standard is immediately satisfied in countries like Egypt and Pakistan, which can then claim some legal legitimacy under the standard created with the United States.
Secretary of State Clinton continues to push for the implementation of the new international effort to criminalize certain forms of anti-religious speech as our Muslim allies expand their definition of blasphemy.
Source: Guardian
The death of our ambassador and these other Americans was simply murder. It was not caused by a film or the exercise of free speech. It was caused by the continued failure of leaders like Karzai to stand up to extremists who believe that violence is warranted whenever people insult your faith or a religious figure. There is a global struggle today over free speech, not just in the Middle East but in the West. The solution is not to enable or legitimate efforts by people like Karzai to prosecute those who “cause” violence by engaging in unpopular or blasphemous speech.
Source: National Journal
Lotta,
will check the link and consider who is publishing it—the neocon think(?)tank. Thanks.
I have been aware of Salafist importance in Egypt since
over two years as was given a heads up by my Iranian urologist. He appreciates heads up clients, and does not milk me. Ie good guy. Like most Iranians here.
Met a new one at the cytologal dept at the hospital last week: nurse from SW Iran near Iraqi border. Kurds on the other side, but she did not know that. She probably came here as a child, judging from her lack of accent in swedish.
Lotta,
Juat wrote a long “lecture” challenging your views on bin Laden. And the damn system flushed it down.
Moral? Write briefly. bin Laden never had any Taliban support. He was and remained a foreigner. Anethema to Taliban and afghanis in general. Your knowledge of SA, our policy there, and Wahabism/Salafism etc do not impress me.
But you do. As always. Salaam alejkam. Hee hee. Bibi!
ID707, check SWM’s posting at 6:51, Bin Laden was a follower of the earliest form of Wahhabism, the stuff from the 17th century as I recall, the original Salifi preaching, that Islam should not go beyond the 4 corners of the written Koran. Contemporary Wahhabism is said to be moderate in that it is moving toward the concept that jihad/war is to be declared by the rulers of countries and governments, not individuals.
id, Eggplant is an olive oil sponge. I slice them thinly and then just pour Kosher salt on them arranged on a towel. After an hour, flip and salt again. I prepare flour w/ basil, oregano and pepper. Lightly dust the sliced eggplant in the flour mixture and fry in olive oil…~3 minutes per side. Let the cooked eggplant rest on paper towels. If you’re cooking a big eggplant or two this is labor intensive.
When done frying grease a baking dish, put down a layer of eggpalnt, layer or tomato sauce, then layer of parmesan. Do another layer or two..you really don’t want it thicker than 3 layers. On top more sauce and parmesan. You can also put some provolone and/or mozzarella on top. Bake uncovered @ 400 degrees for 45 minutes.
We’ve needed less reasons to invade than this….now… Why are we there?
SwM,
“Not prepared? I guess one could say that about Bush, idealist.—–SwM
Guess will have to go to the link.
These deepthinking women leave me swimming. What does she mean? And you took less than a minute on Blouse’s ref to Dung Ho. I’m still wondering on that one. Dung=crap, OK, so what, was that it?
Think if he had named himself Dong Ho! Now I am off the rhread again.
Mothers always know how to puzzle their small ones. Question is do all men realize this?
Good synopsis Lotta.
ID707: \”Al Qaeda is an arm of the CIA?\”
Bin Laden and the Taliban was subsidized by the CIA and were very useful but they felt shafted when SA agreed to allow military installations in SA after the first Gulf War. Bin Laden then recruited the most militant of his Taliban brigades to form Al Qaeda. The were not funded by CIA but were still funded by their family members it is rumored and indirectly by the Saudis since they heavily fund the Wahhabism faction of Islam. They are the most fundamental faction and given great deference and official support in their country. They are the primary authority in the enforcement of Sharia law, they are the virtue police. Bin Laden was a practitioner and used his religious adherence to old-line Wahhabism to advance his cause.
So,
should we let it all slde …
Nick,
We can agree to diaagree and agree and live with it.
I am not sacrificing anybody’s first amendment (Lotta says), or kissing extremist arsle. If the one I am embracing pulls a knife, then I hope my arm is faster.
Your expeience of psychopaths exceeds mine. No contest.
But what do you know personally of muslims.
I even know former Iraqis who were not of any religion, but who were deists. And they left after ’91.
Getting your info from media is BS. Or do you have a channel you believe in?
As roe consipiacies: Did you ever hear what JE Hoover once said? Comspiracies so great, we can not imagine their existence. Was he right? And which one was he talking about.
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Oh yeah. Please tell me how to do eggplant and parmagiano cheese. I have soaked them in salt water to remove the bitterness and made ovendishes with tomato sauce. But the skins are still tough, and the taste is not apparent.
I have peeled and fried them in gallons of olive oil, they just soak up and soak up. Taste? Niente.
I am totally challenged by them.
idealist, no
SwM,
Is foreignpolicy the neocon group? Seems I was a short subscriber there until I rapidly got their slant clear for me. Or am I confusing them with……???
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/12/1130950/-If-diplomatic-attacks-are-a-sign-of-weakness-Bush-was-the-weakest-of-all Not prepared? I guess one could say that about Bush, idealist.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/09/12/the_salafi_moment?page=full The ultraconservative Salafi movement is pushing to the forefront in Mideast politics.
ID, The conspiracy stuff, 9/11 truther or this “the CIA did it” is lost on me, paisan. But, to each their own.
This attack in Libya is going to change the upcoming debt-ceiling battle I bet, as well as reinforce the arguments to continue the war -on whatever, terrorism, Al Qaida- where ever it leads. Who is the puppet and who is the master?
While Nick S and I disagree on some things I am completely in agreement with his statement: “Do we flush down the toilet our constitution to try and appease crazy people? NO.”
Not under the banner of cultural sensitivity, not under some BS Brandenburg standard, not based on some craven pragmatism (and I try to be a pragmatist), but no, not my First Amendment.
Dredd’s info above is something to think about,
I agree with the comment of Flip Kid, above. I also feel that the best thing to do with Afghanistan is pull out now like Nixon’s father should have at that moment of conception. End all aid immediately. Tell Karzai to put a turbin on that bald head of his and to go ahead and be an Ayatollah or whatever name he wants.
Nick,
“This Libyan raid, apparently planned, should not have worked if we were prepared.”
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Who says we were not? Who says this was not CIA planned and enabled? Have we not understood at this point that Al Quaeda is an arm of the CIA? That Al Quaeda provacations are not part of the big picture—whatever that is?
Can this not be part of the drumming up to Syria and Iran bombing? You figure it out, I can not. But think widely and wildly is productive. It has lead to lots of advances.
They said to the ambassador: This is a do or die operation and it is your turn to die for it. Got it?
idealist707 1, September 12, 2012 at 5:57 pm
Alexander the Great took ships to get around it to reach India. He was wiser than we are.
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And then there were Texas guitarists ….
The news continues to shape up that this was a planned attack as Mespo’s cite states.
The majority of Americans are at odds with our foreign policy regarding the Middle East in general and specific, discrete policy aspects. The Administration and Congress is unresponsive and if current predictions on training the Afghan police and reinforcing the government/civilian/cultural infrastructure is to be believed, the figure of a potential 10 year, on the ground engagement in some regarding Afghanistan is possible.
There are those that say Karzai plays to the radicals as well as the US (behind the scenes) because the only thing that standing between him and a revolution is the the US presence. He’s in it only for himself and the graft for him and his family.
We’re not going to change the culture and and the ‘enemy’ owns the battle-space on the ground. And they shift the battle-space whenever there is an opening.
Our exit from Afghanistan (both troops and the thousands of military contractors)is long overdue and that token force of troops (trainers?) and large numbers of military contractors should be pulled out too.
*****
“Today, there are more than 113,000 private contractors in Afghanistan, while there are only 90,000 troops, Manchin said.
“For Iraq, we can’t get accurate numbers. But there are between 20,000 and 30,000 contractors still in Iraq,” Manchin said.
Bowen said, “The Department of Defense has never seen a complete audit of its contractors. They say it is impossible to do. That is unacceptable.”
http://wvgazette.com/News/201208290193