Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has decided to continue the fight to preserve the state’s “crimes against nature” law that bans both oral and anal sex in both heterosexual and homosexual relations. The United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit (considered by many to be the country’s most conservative circuit) struck down the law on obvious constitutional grounds. However, Cuccinelli has filed a motion for reconsideration to try to get that decision reversed. The current attorney general and likely GOP gubernatorial candidate Ken Cuccinelli wants to keep anti-sodomy laws on the books in Virginia.
Notably, Cuccinelli’s position contradicts the position of many in the GOP who support not just the decriminalization of homosexual relations but more recently same-sex marriage. It is a position that conflicts with basic libertarians values that motivate some in the GOP and many independents. The most basic right of Americans is, to quote Louis Brandeis, the right to be left alone. The intrusion of the government into the actual bedrooms of Americans is the ultimate expression of government power and abuse. It is also a classic form of majoritarian tyranny where neighbors insist that you live by their moral code and values. It is not the position of those who want to limit the role of government in the lives of citizens.
The law states:
Va. Code § 18.2-361(A) provides that: “If any person . . . carnally knows any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth, or voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge, he or she shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony, except as provided in subsection B.”
Fortunately, the Fourth Circuit opinion is unassailable and will not be reversed in my view. We have grown as a nation both in terms of our laws and our values. It is not that a majority approve of these relations but they embrace the right of citizens to decide how they relate for their lovers and spouses. It is also a law that would criminalize relations that are widely practiced by citizens — condemning conduct that a majority support by their conduct. The future of such morality legislation is dim in this country not because we are less moral but because we are more tolerant and inclusive.
Source: MSNBC
Wow, that blows.
I love the idea of laws against oral sex being “facially unconstitutional.”
Are laws against anal sex, an example of “the ends justify the means”, or just nullification of “you’ll get it in the end”?
When you stand definitely depends on those with whom you sit. Cuccinelli sits with the religious folk who are obsessed with the sex practices of others. He’s been told to stand and stand he must. If one wants to sit with the obsessed, vote for him.
Crimes against nature…
Seems reasonable. Now all we need is Mother Nature to testify that said actions are indeed against nature. Seeing that such activity happens in nature it might be a hard argument but if She testifies to it, I’ll listen.
Also as has been often times pointed out celibacy is just about the only sexual activity that isn’t seen in nature. It would be easier to say the priest is acting against nature.
Bron 1, April 4, 2013 at 10:42 am
….
“The Virginia State Seal makes me super uncomfortable”
==============================================
Send in The Baby Seal Club:
rafflaw 1, April 4, 2013 at 1:23 pm
——————————————–
Another reason to be celibate. I’m not a virgin, but maybe I should be.
Another small government conservative wanting to send the sex police into your bedroom.
Ask Jean what she thinks. She isn’t a fascist, but I’m not sure what she thinks.
“well I always say liberals and conservatives are all the same, they both want to put their hands in your pants.” – Bron
Almost.
“well I always say
liberals and conservativescorporatists/fascists and theocrats are all the same, they both want to put their hands in your pants.”There. That’s better.
mespo727272,
He was not convicted of violating the “crimes against nature statute” by itself (Va. Code 18.2-361(a), but rather the crime of solicitation to commit a felony (Va. Code 18.2-29), a portion of which addresses adults and minors.
They won’t put their hands in your pants if you don’t let them.
Bron:
Sadly, I think it’s 50-50 he wins given McAuliffe’s lifeless campaign.
Ken Walsh:
” (2) the law was not unconstitutional as applied because an adult’s solicitation of oral sex from a minor is not constitutionally protected under Lawrence v. Texas. ”
********************************
Here’s the law: Va. Code § 18.2-361(A) provides that: “If any person . . . carnally knows any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth, or voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge, he or she shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony, except as provided in subsection B.”
The problem of course is that nowhere in the statute is any restriction made to stop the law only at solicitation of minors. The archaic law refers to solicitation of “any male or female person” without mentioning minors. McDonald was thus convicted of an element that does not exist in the statute namely soliciting minors. (The alleged victim was 17 years old and above Virginia’s age of consent). Amid all the hoopla over standing and facial versus applied unconstitutionality you missed the most important part. As the 4th Circuit said,
We are confident, however, that we adhere to the
Supreme Court’s holding in Lawrence by concluding that the
anti-sodomy provision, prohibiting sodomy between two persons
without any qualification, is facially unconstitutional.
lrobby:
one to grab your wallet, the other to grab your . . .
lrobby:
well I always say liberals and conservatives are all the same, they both want to put their hands in your pants.
mespo:
well he has had some pretty amazing shots across the bow of the ship of state.
Ultrasounds and now this, religious conservatives must be some really strange people. I wonder if they understand how foolish this is?
He lives around here somewhere, I am not sure after this, if I saw him in public, I could refrain from laughing and making some lewd comment if I was introduced.
What do you think his chances for being elected are? People who know him say he can quote Jefferson and understands the founding. They are probably right on the former, a parrot can quote Jefferson, but if he is trying to push laws like this he needs to take another look at the latter.
Nice…. So does it still enforce its sodomy laws in view of Bowser v Hardwick….. I guess the children are still fair game and the mules….
More of those Fascist Liberals at work in VA, this time disguised as Conservative Attornies General, and standing in front of a Fascist Liberal Activist Court too! Fascists! Fascists! Everywhere!
Bron:
He appeals to the conservative religious crowd which keeps him well financed with tax free dollars. He’s not so radical when you talk to him but he’s totally in their pocket and liable to propose anything. I think he’s just getting started.
The United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit (considered by many to be the country’s most conservative circuit) struck down the law on obvious constitutional grounds.
—————————————–
Go ahead and submit a Petition for Review. I think that’s what it’s called. Denied.