I had a fleeting sensation of hope yesterday when a poll of 1,000 Egyptians by the Pew Research Center found that 59% percent said that their preferred form of government is democracy. Then a little below the poll found that 82% feel adulterers should be stoned and 84% believe that apostates from Islam should face the death penalty.
The poll captures a long-standing tension in Muslim countries, which favor differing degree of democracy while applying Sharia law and deny basic rights like free speech and association and privacy in the name of Islam. The Egyptians have long been one of the most educated and modern countries in the Arab world. Yet, 95 percent believe that it is a good thing not to have separation of mosque and to allow Islam to play a large role in politics.
Some 85% say that Islam’s influence on politics is good
While 80% think that suicide bombings are never or rarely justified and 70% are concerned about radical Islam, 54% believe men and women should be segregated in the workplace and 77% believe thieves should be flogged or have their hands cut off.
The lack of separation and secular principles will continue to result in the denial of fundamental human rights in Muslims countries until citizens recognize the relationship between such rights and liberty. Democracy is little protection of rights since, in nations with overwhelming Islamic voting blocks, these laws are always popular. This is the very meaning of what the Framers viewed as majoritarian terror or tyranny. Liberty requires citizens to take a type of leap of faith in giving up their ability to dictate the views, associations, and beliefs of their neighbors. That takes a great deal of education to instill such values of governance in a population. Even in this country, many seek to impose their morals on their neighbors through morality laws.
The corrosive impact of Sharia law is well-documented on this and other legal blogs. Freedom of the press and freedom of speech (as well as freedom of religion) are denied in such systems where people may be punished and even put to death for uttering irreligious and minority views. Democracy becomes a tool for opposition in the absence of guaranteed rights of speech, religion, press, and association. Without such protections, it merely allows ordinary people to participate in the oppression of their neighbors.
Source: Globe and Mail
Off course, none of that religious (i.e. false “belief”), mystical hogwash is in the Preamble, Constitution and Bill of Rights (disregarding the clearly unconstitutional 13th, 14th, 15th, etc. “amendments” enacted through coercion without a “quorum” by a theocratic dictator in full “overreach” mode who should have been indicted fro abuse of power and coercion; whose first high crime was usurpation and confiscation of private property which led to his other high crimes of unconstitutional war, immigration, vote fraud, etc., but who’s counting, right?).
It is, by contrast, the essence of the Communist Manifesto.
Oops! One of these positions is treasonous, subversive and insurrectionist.
Can you guess which one?
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/attachments/people-and-opinion/3008d1277320234-no-tolerance-for-intolerance-tolerance.jpg
In a society that continues to RESPECTS the freedom of diversity of thought and belief we will continue to have legal rights, that PROTECT that very notion. Those who can’t or won’t respect any other philosophy other than the one they adhere to makes our form of government less stable and we have then lost some of those freedoms they believe are natural. It’s strange that some here profess to honor the Constitution and Bill of Rights and other Amendments, yet they seem to want to deny freedom of thought.
The survey results are indicative of any culture that does not recognize the basic, natural rights of its people. When you remove the limits by which natural rights bind society, then what becomes the legitimate limit of government? Something will replace Natural Rights; what will it be?
In a society that places the limits at the will of God, you get Sharia. In a society that places the limits at the will of the government, you get Dictatorship. In a society that places the limits at the will of the People, you get pure Democracy (mob rule). We have some on this blog that believe ALL rights come from government through the will of the people. And when you advocate for moral relativism as well, then the survival of this republic will surely be on the clock.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter 1, September 22, 2014 @ 12:51 pm
I think the US and World condition today would be in a much improved state had freedoms and rights flowed from a ‘Bill of Individual and Government Responsibilities and Obligations’
“Poll: Egyptians Want Democracy . . . and Stonings”
And the Chinese give the death penalty for corruption and violation of the public trust which are the highest of crimes.
My iPad wants to misspell “country” today. It has a mind of its own it seems. I won’t tolerate that, I need to be the ruler of my iPad.
That may be so Darren, BUT with the huge number of fundamentalists that are unique to this country, we are in greater danger of an abusive democracy. It’s not belief in something greater than oneself that is dangerous, it’s the notion that there is no other legitimate way of thinking that is dangerous. Look at what happened in African countries that now have majority fundamentalist Christians in their legislating bodies. What freedoms have been taken away from homosexuals in these newly Christian nations? Watch the documentary, God Loves Uganda to see what has happened to people in those contries that don’t adhere to fundamentalist Christian dogma. It’s fundamentalism in Islam and fundamentalism in any other religion that we need to be worried about, IMO. Belief systems that don’t tolerate diversity is what these theocracies in the ME and Africa are dealing with now and we are seeing the end result. I think we can learn from their mistakes if we continue to respect differing philosophies.
The Church of England as used in the case of its relationship with the state has not resulted in the UK becoming like Egypt any more than the Christlich Demokratische Union Deutschlands, (CDU, Angela Merkel’s party) resulted in Germany.
It is not necessarily automatic that an abusive theocracy will result from more reference to God at least in writings.
“The strength of a nation lies in the homes of its people”.
Abraham Lincoln
As long as we remain both secular and religious we have less of a chance of seeing democracy being misused. It’s our diversity of thought and belief that’s guaranteeing our freedoms thus far. If we cross the Rubicon and become a “Christian Nation” with a state religion, we will start looking a lot more like Egypt. Some commenters here have advocated for a Constitutional Amendment recognizing ” God”. What a dangerous slippery slope that would put this contry on. It’s our committment to individual freedoms that may keep us from becoming a theocracy or an oligarchy. Sadly I think that we probably in reality are already an oligarchy and if some people had their way, we would become a theocracy of sorts. Morality laws based on Judeo Christian beliefs would look different than morality laws based on Islam, no doubt, but it’s also no doubt it would insult the principles the formation of this country was inspired by.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vRnl_fZNMlY/U7c5uNBkB0I/AAAAAAAAXiM/a5KI3VySTXA/s1600/QP-+commitment+to+freedom.jpg
One success of Islam seems to be that it has prevented the West from taking control of the ME. You can kill millions of Muslims, threaten millions more, and those remaining will still not accept control by non-Muslims. That’s what the threat of chopping off hands and stoning people can do, apparently. Brutality seems to reinforce faith.
Well, let’s see. The Egyptians would rather whack a paw off a thief, whereas we prefer locking up millions of thieves in prison, where they learn to be better criminals. Whacking off a paw costs but a little, whereas locking up a thief cost about $30,000 to $40,000 per year.
The Egyptians would rather stone a few adulterers to death each year, whereas we would rather have about half our marriages end up in divorce with broken homes, delinquent kids, mentally screwed up kids, and once again, a burden to the taxpayer to support divorced mommies and their brood in many cases.
Seems to me, like the Egyptians understand one aspect of democracy better than we do. . .that citizens have obligations, not just rights.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
pretty much the reason the founders werent to high on direct democracy. Mob rule is mob rule however you want to slice it.
Direct democracy is for people who do not believe in individual rights.
“Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”
“Even in this country, many seek to impose their morals on their neighbors through morality laws.”
So please, let us spend the $trillions locally instead of around the world to spread “democracy”. We have a long way to go cleaning up our own house before we start telling other people how to live.
“a poll of 1,000 Egyptians from the Pew Research Center”
Interesting. I didn’t realize that the Pew Research Center had 1,000 Egyptians working for them. And why did they just poll Egyptians from the Pew Center? Perhaps that’s the explanation for the odd results…
And these are the people to whom we send billions and the
People we expect to fight ISIS wth whom they AGREE!
We never learn.
Don’t democracies always result in the stoning of the minority by the majority (at lest figuratively)?
The mindset of a region and religious culture as we see in the Middle East shows why we need to become energy independent. The opposition to the Keystone pipeline is an affront to our national security.
Never believe polls. Only 59% want democracy while 70% believe in stonings. If you ever watched the series ‘Yes, Minister’ there was a hysterical episode where they showed how you could get any answer you wanted in a poll just by how you asked the question. Have never felt the same about polls.