I have previously discussed my admiration for Pope Francis, who strikes me as a truly holy man in every true sense of that term. Francis has pulled the Church into the Twenty-First Century with massive reforms and new approaches. This week saw one of the most remarkable such changes: Pope Francis announced that it is perfectly consistent to be a Catholic and an evolutionist. For many Catholics who cannot deny the evidence that the Earth is billions rather than thousands of years old, the announcement shows that it is possible to believe in both God and evolution.
Pope Francis declared that the Big Bang theory “doesn’t contradict the intervention of a divine Creator, but demands it.” The comment came at the plenary assembly of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, gathered in the Vatican to discuss “Evolving Concepts of Nature.” Francis said that the creator “brought all things into being . . . from a supreme Principle of creative love.” He added that “[e]volution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.”
On my recent visit to the Vatican, I was told by multiple people that there has been a massive increase in visitors due to the unprecedented popularity of this Pope. Indeed, churches are reporting rising congregations after years of decline due to the draw of Pope Francis. Ironically, he is the greatest evidence that institutions like humans can evolve into better and higher forms.
Oops. In the prior “All interventions by god(s) or other supernatural events is within the realm of science, however.” is correct. The original sentence “All non-intervention… is outside the realm of science.” would have worked, too. Typing with two ways to say it sometimes leads to an inversion.
DBQ, I got to know an ER doc pretty well from helping defend him in a horseshit malpractice lawsuit. He was not a religious guy per se. He was raised some Protestant religion, but didn’t attend church. But he said, there aren’t many people who work ER’s for a long period of time who don’t believe there is some higher force, a God if you will. They SEE miracles. These people of science see things that DEFY science. He said it is quite inspirational and humbling.
“Pogo, Easy to pick out the socialists here, isn’t it.” nick lol Easy to pick the right wing nut jobs, too.
Justice Holmes:
I certainly appreciate your skepticism. However, the outraged reaction of conservative bishops (and conservative lay persons) to some of Pope Francis’ public statements means that he is pushing some buttons that need to be pushed and forcing debates on matters that need to be debated. In my view (perhaps skewed somewhat from my experience with Jesuits), any perceived retreats by him are merely tactical.
Mike – remember the old saying. There are two types of Catholicism, the Jesuits and everybody else. Pope Francis, unless he wants to speak ex cathedra, has to have the support of the other bishops (remember he is the Bishop of Rome). The Catholic Church has never been a top-down organization. The Pope has never really been in charge since the days Popes had their own armies.
Religious dogma involves the supernatural. The domain of science is the natural. Science has nothing to say about religious dogma since they are are involved with unconnected portions of reality: the seen and the unseen. Religion has nothing to say about the natural. All intervention by god(s) or other supernatural events is outside the realm of science.
If it affects reality it is natural. If the nature of the universe is that there is a god or gods then those gods are indeed natural. We have looked for gods in the natural world and have, instead, found solely natural explanations.
It is impossible with science to prove a scientific theory. It is possible to disprove a scientific theory, though, The 6-day-creation story is clearly myth. Perhaps myth with a message like Aesop’s Fables, but not reality.
Yes, it is possible to be both Catholic and believe that the human species evolved over hundreds of thousands of years. It takes the ability to doublethink.
Eschew doublethink: it strains the brain and can lead to dangerous thinking in extreme cases. Buddhists self-immolating to proclaim the truth of their belief. Muslim suicide-bombers proclaiming the truth of their belief. Christian martyrs by the score proclaiming the truth of their belief. Christian Crusaders willing to die to take the “Holy” Land from the Muslim horde. Christian cannibalism is only ritual, but there have been real cases of religious cannibalism.
The Pope apparently agrees with the Dalai Lama regarding his religion: “If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims.”
oops miracles
davidm I think wiccans believe in miracle.
This is really not news as Paul pointed out in the very first comment. The Church has never (to my knowledge) denied evolution. It was taught in school. Unlike some other sects of Christianity, I was taught that the Bible is not completely literal.
You can believe in a God who has created the plans upon which evolution works. The Architect. God the great mathematician….. if you will. There are rules behind the mechanisms of life, the structure of minerals, the aspects of atoms. Miracles and science are not mutually exclusive.
JH ~
I completely agree with you.
What Mike A. said in response to davidm. It is astounding that after reading what Pope Francis said anyone can claim he is a creationist in the modern sense.
rafflaw wrote: “It is astounding that after reading what Pope Francis said anyone can claim he is a creationist in the modern sense.”
I would be astounded if Pope Francis claimed he was not a creationist. His language generously refers to the Creator and to creation often.
Theistic evolution is a type of creationism. Evolutionary scientists reject theistic evolution just as much as they reject young earth creationism.
Evolutionists do not believe in any kind of spirit or soul. They are mechanists. Their entire paradigm is to explain how what Catholics call “God’s creation” came to be without God. So while the Catholics want to hang on to the idea that God creates the soul, that is nonsense to the evolutionist.
What is astounding to me is how much people see what they want to see in articles like this recent one.
Pogo, Easy to pick out the socialists here, isn’t it.
Pogo, LOL is about all that one can do with your idea of economics and vulnerability to evil. I had to LOL along,
davidm:
The principles of evolutionary theory were generally accepted by both Catholic and Protestant theologians initially. The creationist reaction is largely a 20th Century product of what I consider to be a very narrow and simple-minded form of religious fundamentalism. Your definitions of “Evolutionist” and “Creationist” reflect a false and misleading dichotomy. Mainstream Christians have never had difficulty accepting the principles of natural selection while believing in both miracles and the resurrection.
Many Christian leaders do not have problems believing in miracles and the resurrection, but the positivist evolutionists do.
Mike Appleton wrote: “The creationist reaction is largely a 20th Century product of what I consider to be a very narrow and simple-minded form of religious fundamentalism.”
Yours is a common misperception that is repeated often. What you call a “20th Century creationist reaction” was articulated in the Church Fathers, which I assume is still highly regarded by your church.
The epistle of Barnabas (AD 130), which was part of the oldest Bible we have, interprets the Torah as indicating that the earth was created in six literal days. We find similar views by Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Lactantius, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, and Augustine.
Pogo, I said lol because you sound like a member of Opus Dei.
david m, I think you are confusing evolutionists with atheists.
Haz, Wow! Thanks. Went to Catholic high school and college. Was taught evolution. Here’s my take as to why the Pope made this announcement that most knowledgeable Catholics are saying, “Duh, we knew that.” The Catholic Church is losing members in droves in the Western world. It started before the priest scandals, but that travesty accelerated the exodus. The mega churches are growing. Religions are big business. They need bodies in the seats and money in the baskets. They are starting to sell advertising. My bride and I chuckled when we saw a large Kia advertisement on the scaffolding for refurbishing the Duomo in Florence.
This Pope scares conservative Catholics. I understand that. But, these holy man was elected for a reason. That reason is to get bodies in the seats. This announcement on evolution was made to differentiate the Catholic Church from the many fundamental Christian churches that do not believe in evolution. I get this guy. I like him. He is a breath of fresh air as was John Paul, but for different reasons. As I said when he was first elected and no one knew much about him. They elected a Jesuit for a reason. Hold onto your hats, it will get bumpy.
Pogo:
You have a spectacularly limited view of Catholic social doctrine. If you want to know the Church’s position on socialism and the rights of labor, you won’t find a better place to start than by reading Rerum Novarum. Trust me, neither Glenn Beck nor Rush Limbaugh have a clue as to the meaning of the phrase “social justice.”
Nothing unusual about a Pope embracing evolutionary theory. It’s been done before by other popes. The problem is that they use vague language that only creates a superficial notion that there is no conflict.
The truth is that Pope Francis is still a Creationist. Evolutionists typically are not. The Pope believes Jesus was resurrected from the dead. Evolutionists do not. The Pope likely believes in a resurrection of all humans and judgment day. Evolutionists do not. The Pope believes in miracles. Evolutionists do not. The list of differences goes on and on.
“You must really be disappointed in the choice of Pope Francis.”
He seems a truly good man whose ignorance of economics makes him vulnerable to evil wearing justice’s mask.
“Pogo, LOL.”
I’m puzzled. Why do you find that funny?
The government has many necessary and indispensable functions to play, roles that cannot be accomplished by individuals acting alone or even by smaller groups in society. Yet states and governments often exceed their legitimate role and infringe upon individuals and groups in society so as to dominate rather than to serve them. To combat this tendency, Catholic social thought emphasizes the principle of subsidiarity. Non-Catholics also have discovered this principle.
Abraham Lincoln wrote: “The legitimate object of government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done, but cannot do at all or cannot so well do, for themselves—in their separate and individual capacities.” Government should be as small as possible, but as big as necessary to accomplish whatever needs to be accomplished that cannot be accomplished in any other way. National defense, interstate cooperation, and treaties with other nations are obvious examples of matters properly undertaken by the federal government. Administration of the criminal justice system is another example of a matter that properly pertains to government. On the other hand, the government should not intervene to attempt to alleviate all problems. A welfare or “nanny” state, offering cradle-to-grave security and attempting to provide for all human needs, expands the state beyond its proper scope and violates the principle of subsidiarity. Pope John Paul II explained:
“Malfunctions and defects in the social assistance state [or welfare state] are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the state. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: A community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.” (Centesimus Annus 48)