As many on this blog know, I am a great fan of Pope Francis who has brought an inspiring leadership to the Church that has drawn millions back to the faith. Given that admiration, I was disheartened to read the Pope’s comment on free speech today. I ran a column last weekend on how world leaders are failing over themselves to “Stand With Charlie” after the massacre of editors and staff at Charlie Hebdo magazine. However, the West has been rolling back on free speech rights, including some of these very leaders. Pope Francis added his view this week to those insisting that free speech must have limits when it comes to insulting people about their religion. It is a disappointing observation, particularly when coupled with a rather poor analogy.
On the papal plane, Pope Francis spoke beside Alberto Gasparri, who organizes papal trips. He used his aide in this analogy: “If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch. It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.”
Of course, people can insult the faith of others. It is called free speech and you are not allowed to punch someone (or in the most recent case, massacre people) out of a sense of legitimate outrage. Clearly, Pope Francis was not condoning the massacre. He remains a leading voice for Peace and tolerance. However, the discussion of limits on free speech in the West has spawned a trend toward greater criminalization and prosecution for unpopular writers and speakers, including a crackdown in France after the march in support of free speech.
Pope Francis added that people who make fun of religion “are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to Dr. Gasparri if he says a curse word against my mother. There is a limit.” Presumably, the victims are Charlie Hebdo would be considered such “provocateurs,” precisely the image advanced by Muslim extremists insisting that they were incited to violence.
I still admire the Pope but he is less inspirational on free speech, particularly anti-religious speech, in making these comments. Ironically, free speech is the greatest protection of the free exercise of religion. It is the right that allows people of faith (as well as people who are agnostic and atheist) to speak out about their values and beliefs. That freedom comes with a certain covenant of faith in free speech: that we all can speak our mind without fear of prosecution or retaliation.
Source: Yahoo
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This sure ain’t that. Just sayn’
Nick I will be happy to give the Pope full credit when the says or does something good. Let me know when that happens.
The politically correct view is that the murdering savages are justified in their feelings that showing these cartoons will result in violence. That is what this Pope has signed on to with this nonsensical statement that he should punch someone who mocks his mother.
In this as in so many other matters he is misguided and just plain wrong.
George, Exactly. You answer offensive speech w/ speech, not bullets.
Respond to violence with the same or lesser degree of violence. Words with words, slaps with slaps, …
Respond to threat of violence … with the threat of the same.
That works on the playground. Does it work on the world stage?
Assume the Golden Role is in effect… They _are_ doing unto others as they would be done by. They _understand_ vendetta. They understand blood feud.
Oh and Trooper, I would ignore the anarchy. Just sayn’.
Trooper, I understand your feelings and I am not ashamed to admit I have lost some faith in him, and see some of your points. But understand, some of the shakeup of the old guard, cleaning up the Vatican bank, getting the politician priests out of the Vatican, reaching out to prisoners and their families, stuff like that I love. I don’t care about the liturgy, the Opus Dei stuff. The liberation theology we are pretty much sympatico. You are expected to help the poor, not become poor! That helps no one. As I said, this statement is horseshit. But, we approach this from different viewpoints. I call it the way I see it. But, you have to admit, he’s in your doghouse and that is no place ANYONE wants to be. So, even when he does something good, you are reticent to admit it.
York-
“This Pope is jumping on the politically correct band wagon to excuse these murderous fascist Muslim”
Man you make no sense. Isn’t the politically correct bandwagon wearing a “Je suis Charlie” pin right now? So, of course, that condition of your narrative upon which you build to whine about be a victim of liberals has no basis in reality.
If reality doesn’t fit your narrative, then to you reality is just ballast to hoist over the rail so you can get your argument off the ground.
The thing is Nick you know how I feel about this Pope. He is only confirming my great reservations about his tenure. I know the Church will be fine. I just want to mitigate the damage.
Trooper, As I said previously, the Pope made a strong statement about the murdering of Christians by ISIS. This is PC and he is a Jesuit, trying to make nice. He should have said nothing. That doesn’t seem to be part of his repertoire to date.
This has been a pretty good thread. Trooper, you have shown a great deal of restraint and decorum. See, we can take you to nice restaurants!! ChipS, you are my intellectual mentor, something I never thought I would say about a Crimson. DBQ and Karen, the female common sense and intellect this forum desperately needs. Pogo, I enjoy your brand of humor. There are few docs w/ your unique sense of humor. I am blessed to have one like you, and she too is a Crimson. Finally, there is Isaac. I like the fact that you use non PC terms like “mackerel snapper” and you have never played victim when I call you a Canuck or hoser. We had a severe problem here before you came. I called it “flopping” if you’re familiar w/ the need for the NBA to institute a flopping rule. Folks here would howl @ the slightest word they found offensive. JT got sucked in sometimes but got to see that flopping was ruining this place. There has been some jabs, back and forth, on this thread. We have a disparate group, not an echo chamber like some blogs we know. But, it’s been cool and I salute you all. And yes Isaac, Catholics have built them some majestic churches over the centuries. I’ve visited many in large Italian cities as well as small towns, The majestic ones of course are wondrous. But, driving both the northern and southern coasts of Italy, we have stumbled[not ubriaco] into some small village churches that have literally brought tears to my eyes. In Santa Margherita Ligure we stopped in a quaint fishermen’s church. A friend of mine, who comments here, was having a heart procedure. I lit a candle, said a prayer, and felt a real peace he was going to be OK. But, for me, the food in Italy trumps the architecture.
What are you smoking pal. I am not talking about violence in any way shape or form. I am talking about the possibility of a schism in the Church as has happened many times before. This Pope is jumping on the politically correct band wagon to excuse these murderous fascist Muslim as do most of the Western liberals who want to hand the Muslims the Ropes to hang us with. Or the knives to slit our throats.
Pope Pius’s acquiescence to the fascists was a shame and a stain on our church that lingers to this day. I just hope this misguided Pope doesn’t go down the same road.
Republican Free Speech-
Republican: I believe in the absolute right to free speech like it grants us in the Constitution (wipes a tear)
Sane Adult: What should be done to journalists that print stolen government documents related to National Security?
Republican: Hang the f*ckers!
“Oh, so you’re saying that if he keeps saying…
Do you see why people consider you ….?”
Straw man defeated, with just one punch!
Trooper York-
“I don’t have to imagine it. He has shown his hand in his demotions and promotion of ultra liberal Cardinals.”
It must hurt when the Church starts to separate the wheat from the chaff and your ilk are deemed the chaff. I’m glad that, being the salt of the earth, I’ll never have to worry about that.
Here’s the statement of yours that gave me the most enjoyment-
“The longer he is Pope and the more he advances ideas such as this……well the conflicts will be much more in the open.”
Oh, so you’re saying that if he keeps saying things and offend people’s religious views, then they will eventually retaliate?
So, you’ve just essentially agreed in principle with the remark that you equated with Pope Pius capitulating to “the fascists”. Do you see why people consider you modern conservatives to be mindless reactionaries? You just accused the Pope of some great treachery of historic proportions for expressing the sentiment that you yourself just expressed.
You’re also making what could be construed as a veiled threat of violence against a person or institution insulting your religious opinions. Taking that into account, you not only agreed with his statement, you also inadvertently provided an excellent example.
The guy whose head the radical Islamists wanted to chop off for writing stuff they don’t like gets it right: “The moment you limit speech it isn’t free.”
I don’t have to imagine it. He has shown his hand in his demotions and promotion of ultra liberal Cardinals. Right now he is getting the benefit of the doubt from many mainstream Catholics who are not paying attention to his radical liberation theology. The longer he is Pope and the more he advances ideas such as this……well the conflicts will be much more in the open.
“Imagine how disappointed the Pope is in those conservatives.”
Yeah, he should punch them all in the nose.
Noah Rothman at Hot Air writes
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