There is another controversy involving a police shooting. Jermane Reid was shot and killed after the Jaguar in which he was riding was pulled over for running a stop sign by Bridgeton officers Braheme Days and Roger Worley in a Dec. 30 traffic stop. When one officer reported seeing a handgun in the glove compartment, things got tense and ultimately led to the fatal shooting of the unarmed Reid. [Warning: the video and text includes foul language]
Driver, Leroy Tutt, is seen showing his hands throughout the encounter.
The officers are heard screaming over and over “Don’t you fucking move!” and “Show me your hands!” at the driver and passenger. Days repeatedly warns Reid not to move, screaming “I’m going to shoot you . . . You’re going to be … dead. If you reach for something, you’re going to be … dead.” However, Reid is heard saying “I ain’t got no reason to reach for nothing, bro, I ain’t got no reason to reach for nothing.” He then says, “I’m getting out and getting on the ground.” Days tells him not to move, but decides to step out of the Jaguar with his hands raised to shoulder height. He is then shot.
Clearly he should have obeyed the officer but his hands appear to be in clear view and Reid made clear that he was going to get out. Both officers appear to have fired at least six times. It is not clear if it was Reid or Days who opened the door. Under Tennessee v. Garner, there would be no justification for the use of lethal force in such a circumstance.
Reid, 36, had a record, including 13 years in prison for shooting at New Jersey State Police troopers when he was a teenager. He was also arrested last year on charges including drug possession and obstruction. Notably, Days was one of the arresting officers in the later arrests. That record however does not factor into the shooting if his hands were visible and there was no threatening behavior. Disobeying an order to remain in the car is obviously not sufficient cause for the use of lethal force under the controlling standard.
“So your argument is that the cop was in danger of his life?”
Tjustice,
??? I made no such argument; I was responding to your comment about not killing your brother. Do you ever bother to qualify any of those deaths as justified?
Gun in glove compartment.
Passenger persisting in doing the opposite of the officer’s order.
Passenger pushing against the door being held shut by the officer?
(The multiple comments suggesting that the shooting was a consequence of one of these don’t make sense.)
Olly:
That’s a difficult question, personally. I’m honestly not sure of what I would do, but I am a private citizen and not a cop with ample resources.
So your argument is that the cop was in danger of his life? I’m pretty sure the amount of deaths of civilians by cops is much greater compared to the amount of deaths of cops by civilians. To say a private citizen has more power in this case is absurd.
There is what is legal and there using common sense. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they don’t. If a cop with a gun tells me to stop and don’t move, I’m going to do just that. Doesn’t matter whether the cop is acting constitutionally or not. They are far less likely to shoot or harm me if I , an older white male, obey the cop.
For others (usually younger than me), the situation may more perilous. Some cops practice “street justice”. Some are trigger happy. If you reasonably believe that you are dealing with one of these cops and that you are serious risk of being shot no matter what, whether or not that is the case, what do you do?
I don’t have a good answer, but the questions highlights the problems that come up when people don’t trust the cops. People need to trust the cops. Even though it is a dangerous job. So the rules that govern the consequences of cop misbehavior should be designed to instill trust in the cops. Otherwise we have chaos.
I’m not passing judgment on what happened here. It is odiferous at first glance , but more info is a good idea before passing judgment.
I need a new key board please bear with my errors until then
😉
We have so many shootings on the Streets these days in SE Missouri that I can see the tension in being a Cop. If Mr.Reid’s Rap sheet – Reid, 36, had a record, including 13 years in prison for shooting at New Jersey State Police troopers when he was a teenager. He was also arrested last year on charges including drug possession and obstruction. was ran before the cops pulled him over and he was told not to move and he got off on scaring the cops to death. Well, it seems it back fired. Such is life.
This is irrefutable based on the video. The cop shooter did not follow the cops order .He moved toward the cop which is the WORST thing he could have done. He got shot for his stupid and reckless behavior. Darwinism @ its core.
A gun in the glove compartment doesn’t mean he wasn’t armed. He could have a gun hidden behind his back or have a knife. I watched testimony of an academy instructor in a trial. Police are taught not to assume anything. Arms in the air is not unarmed. You can’t get out of a car with your hands in the air. Out in front of you doesn’t mean you are unarmed. Getting out of the car after being told not to would be threatening.
The adrenaline going through officer’s blood spikes from uncertainty. Night pullovers are probably hardest due to less clarity. Still, if pulled over do as you are told.
As for the stop about a rapist, it sounds like an adrenaline thing. Would the police appreciate a call the next day advising them of his overreaction? Maybe some counseling or additional training might stop a future tragedy?
I have never considered getting out of the car when pulled over. I just sit with my hands in my lap until he tells me to put the window down. Then follow instructions, getting insurance info from glove compartment and license out of my wallet. Of course, a female isn’t very threatening.
Also, I didn’t get a ticket one time because our insurance is USAA and he asked if my husband (sexist?) was a vet. I said yes. After a brief talk about which service and where served I was on my way. Ladies, always have USAA showing when getting your insurance, might help!
DBQ, SUPERB rebuttal. Thanks for saving me some time.
Sorry but if you actually shoot and unarmed man with his hands up (no matter his color or the cops color) you should be charged with murder!
I can’t help thinking that Jermane may have been hedging his bets by getting out of the car. We can’t see what happened in the car, but we hear the officer yell that he’s going to shoot Jermane if he reaches for anything and then tell his partner that Jermane is reaching for a weapon. If I was in Jermane’s place, I would assume that the cop had just pronounced my death sentence (and laid the foundation for his legal defense if the murder was ever investigated)…there are too many instances of cops shooting people (esp black men) who they “thought” were armed. By calmly saying that he wanted to lay down on the ground, Jermane hoped that getting out of the car (where others could see he wasn’t resisting) was the safest bet for staying alive. Conjecture, I know, but the fact that he got out of the car does not mean that he had bad intent or just wanted to be defiant.
So the white red neck dumba$$es walking around in Walmart with weapons slung across their backs should be shot on sight? How would anyone know if that person was a felon or not on sight? Do we know if they knew the victim’s background when they shot him?
Oh dear God. ‘Only I noticed the cop escalated when he saw the gun in the glove compartment, aren’t I observant?’ ‘ No one else is as observant as I !’ LOL, Oy!
@ Jane
BUT so what if he had a gun in the car? Guns are LEGAL.
This is a completely uninformed statement. Not all guns are equal or have the same legal treatments. ex: handguns versus rifles or shotguns. Not all guns are legal either. Some guns are legally owned: hand guns can legally bought and registered Others are not legally owned: stolen or bought on the black market.
A felon, (which this dead guy was), in many cases (not all), is not allowed possession of a gun. Possession of a weapon can be a felony for a felon IF the guy was on parole, the possession of a weapon, can send you back to jail for a very long time. On the other hand if the gun in the vehicle LEGALLY belonged to the driver, not in the possession of the felon, that would be a different issue entirely.
If the gun WAS legal and not an illegal weapon, then the driver needed to have a concealed carry permit.
There were all sorts of issues associated with the weapon that were danger signals. Then on top of that the refusal to comply sends up more red flags.
I also live in a rural area where most everyone is armed or has access to weapons. I personally own several guns, rifles and shotguns. No one is “freaking out” about guns. It is the PERSON with the gun that causes the freak out.
Thank you Jim; I should have quit while I was ahead. 😀
Olly – “As is often the case in this blog, there is just enough information missing from this story to make every opinion valid and worthless at the same time; including mine.”
t
The only comment on this thread worth reading.
And I do agree that it appeared to be a calm encounter until the gun was sighted, and then it crackled with adrenaline.
Jane – everyone here where I live is packing, too. I also recall during hunting season in my childhood, seeing a lot of gun racks in trucks.
But I live in a rural area. A gun in a rural area means something different than a gun in a high crime area. I do not know anything about the location of this event. Was it in a gang neighborhood? Suburb? I do know the officer had arrested the victim before, and may have known that the suspect had shot at officers before. With that knowledge, seeing a gun would have an entirely different meaning.
We just don’t know everything, yet, such as what was going on inside the car. I thought I heard the officer say twice, “He’s reaching!”
We have seen police wrongdoing before. This may be one of those times. I just want to make sure we know what happened.
And for those who do not obey an officer’s direction of “don’t move” while he has a gun pointed at you, he may not be justified in shooting you, but do you want to bet your life that he won’t feel threatened enough to do just that, during a tense encounter? Obey an officer. You can always have the opportunity to complain later. Not following an officer’s commands, when things have progressed to the point that he’s pointing a firearm at you, will likely not improve the situation, and is dangerous.
Nick,
Besides being rude, it appears you too freak out at the sight or sound of a gun, (and maybe are just afraid of life in general?) BUT so what if he had a gun in the car? Guns are LEGAL. Though a city girl, I lived in rural Alabama for ten years, men stopping on the road in front of my house to slowly get out and shoot a rattler was not uncommon in the summer. Once one of my sons asked for a .22 for his birthday. He was in fifth grade. I told him NO WAY. And he pouted that every boy in his class had a gun… turns out it was absolutely true! (Pisgah). I learned to feel safe with the armed population, actually very safe.
Jane – I grew up in Montana with an armed population. Those pickups had gun racks and the racks had guns in them. First day of deer season half the boys in high school were absent (resident license was 2 deer and an elk, you drew for antelope). In college we left our guns with the Dean of Men and they allowed us the use of the college garages to hang the deer or elk.
Or to defend the life of a child?
Nick – I am not going to kill someone for getting out of a car.