There is another controversy involving a police shooting. Jermane Reid was shot and killed after the Jaguar in which he was riding was pulled over for running a stop sign by Bridgeton officers Braheme Days and Roger Worley in a Dec. 30 traffic stop. When one officer reported seeing a handgun in the glove compartment, things got tense and ultimately led to the fatal shooting of the unarmed Reid. [Warning: the video and text includes foul language]
Driver, Leroy Tutt, is seen showing his hands throughout the encounter.
The officers are heard screaming over and over “Don’t you fucking move!” and “Show me your hands!” at the driver and passenger. Days repeatedly warns Reid not to move, screaming “I’m going to shoot you . . . You’re going to be … dead. If you reach for something, you’re going to be … dead.” However, Reid is heard saying “I ain’t got no reason to reach for nothing, bro, I ain’t got no reason to reach for nothing.” He then says, “I’m getting out and getting on the ground.” Days tells him not to move, but decides to step out of the Jaguar with his hands raised to shoulder height. He is then shot.
Clearly he should have obeyed the officer but his hands appear to be in clear view and Reid made clear that he was going to get out. Both officers appear to have fired at least six times. It is not clear if it was Reid or Days who opened the door. Under Tennessee v. Garner, there would be no justification for the use of lethal force in such a circumstance.
Reid, 36, had a record, including 13 years in prison for shooting at New Jersey State Police troopers when he was a teenager. He was also arrested last year on charges including drug possession and obstruction. Notably, Days was one of the arresting officers in the later arrests. That record however does not factor into the shooting if his hands were visible and there was no threatening behavior. Disobeying an order to remain in the car is obviously not sufficient cause for the use of lethal force under the controlling standard.
Paul, the death penalty doesn’t apply to burglary, armed robbery, and other “lesser” crimes of this nature, but I’d be in favor of it. If it had applied to attempted murder by shooting at cops, this whole situation here would never have occurred. These are conscious, deliberate acts of violence meant to do harm to others, and the perpetrators don’t care about the consequences to anyone else. They are in it for what they can get for themselves. Make the cost of doing business a lot higher for these crimes and the incidence of them will go way down instead of up. You want to clean up your society and make it safer for those willing to get along with others instead of making life miserable for them, this would be one good way to do it. The perpetrators don’t care about others in your society, so the society should eliminate them without remorse. Not the way things are, of course, but that’s my considered opinion.
There’s that obedience thing again. I’m losing patience with disobedient people–I think the cops are too.
Gigi – if you can find the death penalty for not obey the cops please post it.
Nick…your point about cop shooter being known to all cops, of any color, at least local cops, is germane. I know and knew (some are dead) the cops here involved directly in the Boyd, Brown, Bethune case (1972 – one cop murdered, another shot in the head on the sidewalk after being shot down initially)…and I know for fact that not one cop locally didn’t know exactly who Hayward Brown was on sight. The Atlanta police (main Atlanta cop doing the dispatching was black) dispatched the other two (Boyd and Bethune) rather promptly and without fan fare when they tangled with the northerners. He was invited to Detroit and celebrated. A good friend of mine was directly involved with that disaster, he was one of the survivors, and never got over it…finally left the department (his wife insisted…he’d become homicidal beyond redemption) to pursue a law degree, and to this day he is a fine very liberal Democrat….and a damn good lawyer. And still married to one of the prettiest women I’ve ever known.
It took nearly 12 years before Brown was dispatched by a 60 something dude with a shotgun door guard at a dope house he was trying to rob. A grand city wide party ensued. I think I still have remnants of that hangover.
I agree that all is not made clear by the video. That is why we need a thorough investigation, as has been pointed on the thread.
Ari, Rebel W/O A Cause! Love it.
Wadewilliams … my “affection” for the black jack is only for its proper use…and I have been on the receiving end of one, on the shoulder….when I foolishly took a swing at a cop in my 20 something daze. If used on the head, it isn’t a good idea. No connection to Mr. Burge’s use of the implement. Just like MP’s are taught, a swipe upside the head across the ear is a good disabler of idiots….not direct blows to the skull. Then again, as I mentioned, I knew a guy who went to prison for “construed misuse” of a flashlight. He was nearly “famous” for not drawing his sidearm, always figured he could out muscle an idiot…once lost his pistol (drawn from his holster by the loon) to a loon outside a women’s shelter and only his partner’s use of lethal pistol force saved his life. He was a good cop, may he RIP now, for his efforts to NOT use lethal force.
Suggested reading: a good read.
I wouldn’t bet on that Wade. 😀
BillW, This was a local cop shooter. Trust me, ALL cops know a cop shooter, ALL of them. They are as tight knit a group as your will find. And, although late in the discussion, it needs to be said. There is a reality that has proven to be true many times. Cops know, “Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.” That is the reality of what they face w/ every traffic stop.
The video seems inadequate for the certainty of some of these posts. After the fact we know the criminal history of the victim. But how sure are we that the police officer knew the passengers criminal history before shooting. The officer approached the passenger side seemingly not thinking there was a major danger. The passengers name was likely not on the car registration.
Maybe I missed it on the video, but some here seem certain the police knew the passenger was a cop killer (had shot – not killed). Just not sure how the officer secured that info. standing by the passenger window.
I don’t have enough information to criticize or applaud the police officers actions. But if the police officer did not know the victims criminal history, then will even be more interested in the follow up details.
Yes, Bill W, the video is inadequate for the certainty of most of these posts, especially when the audio of it has been modified so it doesn’t even support the detailed description of the dialog in the article.
How officer Days knew the passenger was an attempted cop-killer was in the article, not the video: “Reid, 36, had a record, including 13 years in prison for shooting at New Jersey State Police troopers when he was a teenager. He was also arrested last year on charges including drug possession and obstruction. Notably, Days was one of the arresting officers in the later arrests.” What is not known from the video or described by the article is to what extent Days had interactions with Reid at any other time, or the content of those interactions. Days may have known from his direct experiences with Reid that he was a vicious, lying thug with an intent to kill when encountering the law. When he saw this criminal was in close proximity to a gun, this immediately threw him into a high-danger reaction mode. That might be one reasonable explanation, but until the results of a more complete investigation are known, if even then, there is no way to appropriately judge the whats and whys of the event.
happy
Sorry I got so confused. Here I thought you had said Darren was an attorney who defends these scumbags for some reason. But now it is clear that you know he is a retired police officer and I made you mad.
Glad you cleared that up.
Wade Williams
Don’t bring me down to your level. I don’t like it when anyone talks bad about Darren Smith. He is our midnight Shaman here and he has no enemies I am aware of.
I believe in free speech and I practice it. You obviously do also. But do not attach motives here to my behavior. Everyone else here knows better than that.
Some wonderful person must have prepared a sandwich for old Nick. He is in a much better mood this morning. I bet he didn’t even kick his dog.
Ari
Like you, he found the blackjack to be an effective ‘controller’. That’s what you have in common, Ari. The respect for the blackjack.
Ari, Congrats! That was one of the best beat downs I have seen in a long time.
I see comments on here and elsewhere that we have to trust cops. However, the nature of trust is tha it is something that is earned. How can one reasonably trust a stranger? Particularly if said stranger threatens your life on the flimsiest of pretexts?
As a society, we have agreed that certain professions are trustworthy. For example, we leave our children in the care of educators, despitr the fact thay we may not knoe the individual teacher very well or even at all. But some of these teachers betray that trust. They abuse children, eithet sexually, emotionally, or even physically.
But the vast majority of teachers are good people that want to help children, not hurt them. In order for the education system to work, we have to trust teachers. As a group, educators are pretty trustworthy.
Nonetheless, for my part, I took the time tointroduce myself to each and every teacher whom I trusted to care for and teach my child. These teachers, at least the ones I came to trust and admire, always took the time to interact with me, generally in a pisitivr and productive manner. In doing so, I learned to trust these individuals with my children. As a group, educators have EARNED my trust.
This is not thr case with law enforcement. I live in a small town. Most times, if I try to approach a police officer in an attempt to get to know them, they are dismissive and arrogant, if not outright hostile. They are mistrustful of my intent, and they seem to assume that I am “out to get them”.
On both a local and national level, I see so many instances of police musconduct, abuse, and outright betrayal of thier solemn oathes that I do not fell thay law enforcement is either honorable or trustworthy.
As a group, police have EARNED the mistrust of the public.
Paul C … more important, perhaps, is who edited the video to the form it was presented to the public? Darren more or less suggested questions about the editing as well.
It something very fishy about how all this happen and how the cop attitude change in a blink of an eye. It look like that cop meant to shoot that boy. That cop knew exactly what he was doing.
He disobeyed a GOD, he deserved to die!
WadeWilliams…oh, please. You are imagining things no one said. I think we’re done.
BTW…it’s Jon Burge, not John Burge. And he has nothing in common with me or anyone I know.
happy
I agree Missouri is a miserable place to live. Dusty may give you directions to her part of the country. Everybody is nice there. They all carry guns. Guarantees niceness. Is your health good?. It’s a long way to the nearest hospital. And water can be a problem. But if you’ve got those things solved and have a job or don’t need one – you’ll be sitting pretty.
I am in my 60s and live in Cape Girardeau and SE is right down the Street. I am fairly new to the blog and did not recognize you. I know he is a ret. police officer but he also polices the blog and you made me mad lol.
This is all just recent down here and I think it’s because of a combination of factors. Those being the new Casinos and the proliferation of cheap Methamphetamine and poverty in outlying areas.
I love where I live. I was just saying that if someone was a cop killer and I saw that video, I felt the cop was provoked. And I didn’t know you
🙂
happy
Darren is a retired police officer and I have no quarrel with the way he offered his opinion. Unfortunately, others did not read his comment very carefully