Dr. Hayat Sindi is a Saudi Arabian medical scientist and a woman who has earned respect for extraordinary accomplishments in a country that denies women basic liberties. She is not only an award-winning scientist but one of the first female members of the Consultative Assembly of Saudi Arabia. Ranked by Arabian Business as the 19th most influential Arab in the world and the ninth most influential Arab woman, it is not surprising that Harvard University has brought her to the country as a visiting scholar. However, a nasty lawsuit in King County has raised deeply disturbing allegations about Sindi’s efforts against women who she accuses of hacking her emails. According to counsel for one of those women, Sindi worked to have another woman flogged for writing on Facebook that she had had an affair with her husband. On the other side is Samia El-Moslimany, a women’s activist and photographer who lives in the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, who is fighting to keep Sindi from forcing the disclosure of the women, who would face medieval Sharia justice in Saudi Arabia.
All of this began when El-Moslimany posted statements on social media in 2012 alleging that Sindi had had an affair with her husband. Sindi responded with a Saudi defamation case and, according to an affidavit submitted by El-Moslimany’s lawyer, she wanted El-Moslimany flogged. The effort backfired. A Saudi judge decided last year that El-Moslimany should spend four days in jail for the public defamation while Sindi should spend two months in jail for forming an illicit relationship with El-Moslimany’s husband. Neither has served their sentences.
Sindi however has continued to try to force disclosure of the names of the women commenting on the Internet under the claim that she was hacked. A King County Superior Court judge decided Friday not to sentence a Burien woman to jail or to levy a $500 fine for each day of withholding the names in light of the danger to these women.
Judge Mariane Spearman denied Sindi’s request to hold El-Moslimany in contempt of court because Sindi’s new lawyer could not specify which Facebook comments might be a basis for investigating any of the women.
The idea of a Harvard academic fighting to have women flogged for alleged defamation is deeply troubling. The fact that Saudi Sharia law allows for medieval justice does not excuse a demand for such justice over the exercise of free speech. Even if such speech was defamatory, it should not be a criminal matter subject to flogging. Whatever the truth of the adultery, it should not be relevant to Harvard or anyone else other than those involved in these families. However, flogging for posting matters on the Internet raises significant issues of due process and free speech.
Should Harvard be involved in such dispute when one of its faculty seeks to have women flogged under Sharia law or this is simply a private matter under the laws of another country?
Happy
I laughed my buns off when I clicked on the link right after you said this is what I believe, and the link said: this video does not exist.
Am sure the atheists here are laughing their arses’ off too 🙂
But re Muhammad AS, ISlam does not believe that a prophet can be immoral or indecent, or even prurient. In Islam, all prophets are upstanding for they are the reference. That is why Prophet Solomon AS, in Islam, is not guilty of what he accused of.
But yeah, I too believe it will take God’s infinite mercy to get us through these times.
Po
You are alright then. When I find something like that and share it because it is so special from God and it is received in kind, it brings tears to my eyes. No more fighting my friend. 😉
Darren if this one doesn’t print I give up but erase those other two
Po – This is what I believe
Do you believe Muhammad AS to be a prophet?
Who is aggrandizing? And aggrandizing what?
Regarding Muhammad’s AS rank, the Quran says not to rank one Prophet above another for God sent them all. At the same time He says He ranked some higher than others.
One explanation is that Muhammad AS completed the divine message, as Jesus AS himself announced in the Gospel that he will come Ahmad, and he will speak only what the Lord tells him.
Moses AS was sent to the Israelites, and Jesus AS was sent to the sons of Israel and Muhamad AS was sent to the whole of humanity until the end of times.
But ultimately it is as simple as which one does it for you. Your pastor may be great, but your neighbor may choose to attend the other church for she likes that other pastor better. Each of them is still a link in the chain.
Po
I believe Mohammed as to be a prophet. I don’t understand what religion means to you but I respect it in spite of what you might think. I do know it is going to take God’s infinite mercy to get us through these times.
hAPPY, hAPPY, o HAPPY
You just repeated your question, and I still don’t know what you mean by Allah reporting to Mohamad. What is your question? Or is it a statement?
Screamy fit? Moi? mais non, pas du tout ma chere!
i don’t do screamy fit, though seems like you really, really want me to. Between hissy fit and screamy fit, the fits abound…:)
I did read your link, I still do not know what is your purpose in posting it, other than your tendency to bite while claiming to blow 🙂
Interesting, han? Yeah, agree with you, Prophet Muhamad is an incredible being, such an interesting man, as many have testified of throughout history. Glad to see that you are turning around and leaving the hatred behind. Good for you.
Great minds indeed think alike:
“…I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and his own mission. These, and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every trouble.” Ganghi
“He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope’s pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports.” rev Bostworth Smith.
http://www.gainpeace.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63:what-non-muslim-scholars-said-about-prophet-muhammed-peace-be-upon-him&catid=41&Itemid=105
Po –
Whatever
I don’t think aggrandizing is a good thing for a religious figure. I don’t think I have a great mind. I just use what God gave me to the best of my ability,
I am confused about Mohammed because I am understanding that you do not assign Mohammed divinity nor Jesus Christ and yet he is on a pedestal above all others. I don’t understand this.
Happy, am not sure what it is you asking.
Would you please expound?
Thank you
Paul
thank you for confirming that you have no answer for my o so eloquent, wise and knowledgeable answer to your Paulying…
Po – I know you are jumping between the threads here and identities because I recognize personalities but whatever 😉 😉
And Allah knows what is in your hearts. And ever is Allah Knowing and Forbearing.
This is where I don’t know whether or not Allah is reporting to Mohammad or not. You will have to let me know Po.
You had a little screamy fit a day or so ago regarding my use of a Islamophbic link I sent Karen regarding Sura 33 and the treatment of women.
So I pulled some pure verse from the Suras so I would not get a screamy fit and I guess you did not read them. I find Mohammed is very interesting and prurient when it comes to a prophet. He is worse than King David and Solomon because he is cruel. His Allah is mean
po – you see but you do not understand. Janissaries,
One more thing, Karen. A I said before, my mother is an islamic scholar who does not wear the hijab, nor do my sisters.
They are all business women who own houses, cars, and travel across the globe on their own.
Sister married the guy she liked.
We have female ministers in the government, and oen of our past vice-president was a woman.
Not what you expected, han?!
Karen S says:
Islam might have been considered remarkably pro-woman 1,000 years ago. But let’s compare the actual facts of women today in Muslim theocracies. Are they “equal?” Can a woman go where she wants, do what she wants, dress how she likes, date whom she wants, talk to whom she wants, and get any job she wants? Please explain to me how a woman is equal to a man in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.
There are some who feel that forcing a woman to stay at home, even if she doesn’t want to, not allowing her to shake hands or speak to an unrelated male, not allow her to have a job that would bring her into any contact with males, not allowing her to show her hair, and forcing her to dress modestly under threat of a beating, is “cherishing” and “honoring” her, but it’s not really equality. It’s locking her away. Women don’t really have the same rights and freedoms as men do in the Middle East.
——————
On to you, Karen:
1- Is the world of Islam limited to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia?
Those 4 countries together count 162 million muslims, out of 2 Billion.
Did you know that china has almost as many muslims as Saudi arabia?
That Indonesia counts more muslims than all of those countries put together?
You may not know that but arab muslims are fewer in numbers than non-arab muslims. SO which one are we discussing? Arabic culture or Islam?
Awaiting your answer. Not expecting it though.
And why limit the discussion to islamic theocracies? Are we discussing islam or theocracies?
Again, where is your female head of state?
Here are mine:
Tansu Çiller, elected prime minister of Turkey, 1993-1996
Benazir Bhutto, elected prime minister of Pakistan 1988-1990, 1993-1996
Mame Madior Boye, appointed prime minister of Senegal, 2001-2002.
Megawati Sukarnoputri, elected president of Indonesia, 2001-2004
Khaleda Zia, elected prime minister of Bangladesh, 1991-1996 and 2001-2006
Sheikh Hasina, elected prime minister of Bangladesh 2009-
Roza Otunbayeva, president of Kyrgyzstan, 2010- 2011
Atifete Jahjaga, elected president of Kosovo 2011-
And this ain’t enough, here is a list throughout history.
http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/Muslim_Leaders.htm
You are welcome.
I call everyone to witness, unless you can, Karen, undermine mine arguments and sources, please just keep silent, lest I think you intellectually, and morally, dishonest.
Paul C. Schulte
po – Islam advocates slavery and warfare. You were telling us all how it honored Jesus and Mary the other day, but actually it doesn’t the way you would like. Jesus is a prophet, like Mohammed.
BTW, you were complaining about the slave holding South the other day. The Prophet was a slave holder.
—————————————————-
Paul, wrong on all counts! For someone who knows so much about Islam, you know so little 🙂
For 13 the 23 years of the Prophet’s prophethood, fighting back against the Arab pagans who oppressed the muslims, killed and tortured them was forbidden. Only after they emigrated to Mecca did revelation allow them to fight back, and the rules for fighting back were very clear.
Do no more to them than they did to you, and forgiving them is better in the sight of your Lord.
Treat prisoners of war fairly, give them safe passage
Don’t attack those you had a treaty with
Don’t kill or harm the elderly, women and children
Don’t kill your enemies’ cattle, don’t destroy their property, don’t even cut their trees.
Islam makes it part of the requirements of faith that one treats his slave fairly. The sunnah says that the Prophet made people feed their slaves and clothe them the same as themselves.
Most great sins one does in Islam can be absolved with the freeing of a slave.
From wiki:
Muhammad restricted the traditional means of enslavement, and urged compassion and moderation as the general rule for their treatment. He enforced emancipation as the necessary atonement for having assaulted one’s slave without just cause,[1] and he deemed manumission as either meritorious or as a means or requirement for Muslims to earn forgiveness for serious transgressions.[2][3] He also established the principle that slaves may have authority over free men in Islamic government and religious and military affairs.[4]
Many early converts to Islam were the poor and former slaves like Bilal ibn Rabah al-Habashi, and Muhammad would send his companions like Abu Bakr and Uthman ibn Affan to buy slaves to free.[5][6][7][8]
Muhammad’s pronouncements regarding slavery simultaneously reinforced the principle of a slave’s loyalty to his or her master and the master’s circumscribed duty of reciprocation. By their fiat a master could sell and trade their slaves, and although the Qur’an frequently encourages the ransom or mukataba of slaves as a pious practice,[9][10] the act of emancipation was not incumbent upon believers. Female slaves could not marry without their master’s consent, but the Qur’an also made it clear that it was forbidden to compel female slaves to “prostitution” if they desired chastity.[11] Sexual intercourse with a female slave was permissible, [12] but only following the normal conditions of Islamic marriage.[13]
Sahih International
And [mention, O Muhammad], when We took from the prophets their covenant and from you and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus, the son of Mary; and We took from them a solemn covenant.
Sahih International
That He may question the truthful about their truth. And He has prepared for the disbelievers a painful punishment.
Sahih International
O you who have believed, remember the favor of Allah upon you when armies came to [attack] you and We sent upon them a wind and armies [of angels] you did not see. And ever is Allah , of what you do, Seeing.
Sahih International
And [remember] when the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease said, ” Allah and His Messenger did not promise us except delusion,”
Sahih International
Sahih International
Say, [O Muhammad], “Never will fleeing benefit you if you should flee from death or killing; and then [if you did], you would not be given enjoyment [of life] except for a little.”
Sahih International
And Allah repelled those who disbelieved, in their rage, not having obtained any good. And sufficient was Allah for the believers in battle, and ever is Allah Powerful and Exalted in Might.
Sahih International
And He brought down those who supported them among the People of the Scripture from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts [so that] a party you killed, and you took captive a party.
33:27
Sahih International
And He caused you to inherit their land and their homes and their properties and a land which you have not trodden. And ever is Allah , over all things, competent
Sahih International
O Prophet, say to your wives, “If you should desire the worldly life and its adornment, then come, I will provide for you and give you a gracious release.
Sahih International
O wives of the Prophet, whoever of you should commit a clear immorality – for her the punishment would be doubled two fold, and ever is that, for Allah , easy.
33:31
Sahih International
And whoever of you devoutly obeys Allah and His Messenger and does righteousness – We will give her her reward twice; and We have prepared for her a noble provision.
33:32
Sahih International
O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech.
33:33
Sahih International
And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.
Sahih International
O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
Sahih International
Sahih International
You, [O Muhammad], may put aside whom you will of them or take to yourself whom you will. And any that you desire of those [wives] from whom you had [temporarily] separated – there is no blame upon you [in returning her]. That is more suitable that they should be content and not grieve and that they should be satisfied with what you have given them – all of them. And Allah knows what is in your hearts. And ever is Allah Knowing and Forbearing.
This is where I don’t know whether or not Allah is reporting to Mohammad or not. You will have to let me know Po.
po – with ISIS setting up a new caliphate I have a one word response to your weaseling: Janissaries.
I don’t even know the way I stopped up right here, however I assumed this submit used to be good. I do not realize who you might be however definitely you’re going to a famous blogger should you aren’t already. Cheers!
Hillary is every bit as fat as Christie.
How much is cultural and how much is based on Islam? That would be the question to ask a moderate Muslim.
Po:
“Just a couple of points:
Islam stopped the killed of female infants that pre-islamic arabic culture used to do.
Islam said that men and women are equal in the sight of their Lord.
Islam established a system of quranic laws and sunna mores that protected every aspect of woman’s life.
Islam so values the reputation of the woman that the man who accuses her of a misdeed has an incredible burden of proof to meet or he gets lashes and is discredited forever.
Islam rules for divorce are geared towards protecting the woman and the child.
I could go on and on…”
Islam might have been considered remarkably pro-woman 1,000 years ago. But let’s compare the actual facts of women today in Muslim theocracies. Are they “equal?” Can a woman go where she wants, do what she wants, dress how she likes, date whom she wants, talk to whom she wants, and get any job she wants? Please explain to me how a woman is equal to a man in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.
There are some who feel that forcing a woman to stay at home, even if she doesn’t want to, not allowing her to shake hands or speak to an unrelated male, not allow her to have a job that would bring her into any contact with males, not allowing her to show her hair, and forcing her to dress modestly under threat of a beating, is “cherishing” and “honoring” her, but it’s not really equality. It’s locking her away. Women don’t really have the same rights and freedoms as men do in the Middle East.
You are in complete denial if you assert this.
Of course if you call someone a Pig then you might be calling that person a cop. Officer Krumpke was an igPay.
It is uncivil to call someone here commenting on the blog a “pig”. It is not nice to even say “fatso” unless one is talking about a politician like the CC guy in Jersey. If you are going to be uncivil then employ Pig Latin. The proper word is: igPay. Now that does not sound so bad.
Edward, I read the superb Atlantic piece on ISIS this morning. Thank you. It is, as you know, quite chilling. When you are dealing w/ people whose stated goals is a return to the 7th century concept of justice? Well, “Houston err DC, we have a problem.” The backwards Mideast culture respects strength above all else. Obama has continually showed weakness.
Edward – thanks for the great Atlantic article.
Really, Happy, you’d get your talking points from an islamophobic website yet throw a hissy fit when someone suggests that doing that might be a tiny, tad bit islamophobic!
Why not offer a link to the sura itself and let people read them and make up their own mind. Wouldn’t that the most honest thing to do?
Should I offer commentary on the Bible through Islamist websites?
Just a couple of points:
Islam stopped the killed of female infants that pre-islamic arabic culture used to do.
Islam said that men and women are equal in the sight of their Lord.
Islam established a system of quranic laws and sunna mores that protected every aspect of woman’s life.
Islam so values the reputation of the woman that the man who accuses her of a misdeed has an incredible burden of proof to meet or he gets lashes and is discredited forever.
Islam rules for divorce are geared towards protecting the woman and the child.
I could go on and on…
po – Islam advocates slavery and warfare. You were telling us all how it honored Jesus and Mary the other day, but actually it doesn’t the way you would like. Jesus is a prophet, like Mohammed.
BTW, you were complaining about the slave holding South the other day. The Prophet was a slave holder.
Gigi De La Paz
Po,
Why is it that the women are the ones who seem to always get the 80 lashes or stoned to death? Shariah Law is antiquated and needs to be thrown in the fire. Your law, you, and the judges have no right to use corporal punishment on men, women, or children. Let God be the judge in these cases, and God alone.
Read Sura 3 and 4 There are some really cool things here for disobedient wives. It’s good for them. I read all about it after the Canon that used to come on here encouraged us to actually read this
http://www.message4muslims.org.uk/the-quran/selections-from-the-quran/2-al-baqarrah/sura-3-al-imran/
Nick, funny you’d say, I was just told of a plot to blow up… Trooper’s house. now WWPD? Trooper, WWPD?
Po would take action and take them all out, Team6-like.
You owe me one, Troop. Don’t ever say I never did anything for you.
This muslim, always so helpful!
Here it is, your quote:
po
Since I know, I’ll help.
Based on my understanding of the post, the woman who made the accusation of adultery is Saudi. The accused is also Saudi, and therefore would bring the matter under Saudi jurisdiction.
According to general shariah law, one must back up an accusation of adultery with 4 reliable witnesses, otherwise one is subject to flogging with 80 lashes. To make it even more clearer, 4 reliable people should have witnessed the act of coitus and testify to it in order for the accusation to stand.
Otherwise there is no case.
Now, if the husband suspects / accuses his wife of adultery without the required witnesses, each, husband and wife would swear on the quran 3 times that the accusation is true/false, and the 4th time that may the punishment of God befall the lying party.
At that point, both move on, together or separate, and God would handle it Himself.
So, the accused in this case followed the rule of the law, which is that since the accuser had no witnesses, she should be punished, and the punishment for false accusation according to general shariah law is….all together now….80 lashes.
I so wish I could subject some of you that that law 🙂
Wade – I assume the “Jewish mafia” was the Purple Gang. Google them – Al Capone chose not to fight with them.