We have previously discussed violence and legal measures targeting dogs by some Muslims who view canines as “unclean.” Even postcards with dogs and service dogs (and here) have raised the ire of some Muslim groups. Now this issue is getting some long-needed attention in Iran after a short film that showed stray dogs being tortured and killed by having acid injected into them.
The video was taken an industrial area of Shiraz, 900 kilometres south of Tehran. The animal activists claimed that those responsible paid $4 for each dog. As with environmentalists in China, I have always had overwhelming respect and admiration for secularists and animal (particularly dog) advocates in Muslim countries. This is more than an impressive commitment to principle but putting your actual life on the line for those principles.
The good news is that the Iranian government is acting on the video. While there was an effort to criminalize the ownership of dogs under Sharia law (and subject dog owners to up to 74 lashed last year), Vice President Masoumeh Ebtekar has called for an investigation into the video. While she referred rather mildly to the practice as “an immediate end to unconventional population control method[] for stray dogs,” she did call upon the interior ministry to “deal with the criminals responsible”.
Some Iranian celebrities like Ali Karimi, once a star on Iran’s national football team, posted a picture with his two dogs on Instagram and the message “Dogs are the kindest domestic animals. I hope those who, under any excuse, did this to these animals get what they deserve.”
She has done it again, Mullah Kare. oops, Ayatollah Karen!
Dog ownership is illegal in Iran? ANOTHER LIE!!!!!!!!
Okay, I’ll play along, offer a proof!
If you can’t offer a proof, you’d have thereby confirmed what I have saying that you are prone to saying things that are blatantly untrue..
Karen S said & asked…
Aridog – what is your opinion on the various colored GSDs? I love the European lines, with their strong, flat toplines. I prefer that to the rake that seems to be preferred by the American shows. I have to admit the silver, white, and black coat varieties are just lovely, but when someone breeds for color, you can lose quality. I wish that all coat colors were allowed, so they wouldn’t be novelties that tend to be too inbred. Have they relaxed the rules yet on coat colors? Are they still favoring that angled top line?
Karen, “pigmentation”…the term for coloring of a GSD is mostly an issue with the show dog folks, not the trials folks. Trials folks tend to not breed for “color.” That said, sables, with wolf like pigmentation, are as popular at trials as the saddle back black and tan pigmentations. “Ari” was a tri-color of saddle back black, tan, and red, with a touch of white to boot…”Dera” is a sable as you describe them, with “red” highlights. Recently, as mentioned before, “long hairs” are now considered normal GSD’s….at least in the USCA and the German SV.
As for the top-lines, even in Europe they do breed the angulation dogs with a moderately sloped top-line, as well as the flat top-line dogs, just not as aggressively raked as most American bloodline dogs. In breeding (less that 3 generations out) is forbidden for registry in Europe….you cannot register an inbred dog there….and they, like our USCA, have breed surveys (where an inspector evaluates the pups or young dogs) for conformity to the rules. As for the common image of Rin Tin Tin is the USA, a saddle back pigmented dog in most minds, the truth is the original real Rin Tin Tin was more of a sable dog without much of a mask.
The real criteria for those of us who adore the performance GSD’s is performance per se…we could care less if they are pink and lime color 🙂 .. well maybe not quite that extreme, but the idea is performance over anything else. The ultimate “title” for a GSD in my opinion is the herding title awarded by the SV or similar agency…the “HGH Title.” There are those who make a point that some angulation is necessary for a top rated HGH dog, due to their extended trot gait. It is a v-e-r-y expensive title to acquire in the USA…e.g., how many people do you know who have flocks of 200+ sheep for testing? They exist, one of the best in NY state, but the training and cost of travel is expensive. Unlike the Border Collies, GSD’s in herding are usually two dogs working, one at the shepherd’s side and the other free ranging as the “fence” (and defense) for the flock.
Finally, as mentioned by Bob Stone earlier, the larger GSD’s are gaining ground and for good reason, they’re just big, not less of a GSD…and frequently have long hair coats. These larger dogs are usually welcome in a Schutzhund Trial and compete very well. Not sure they’re welcome in AKC conformation shows. I pay those no attention….among other things for the extreme rake you cited.
Aridog and Karen and Bob Stone – is there some way you can take this conversation about dogs off this thread, 😉
Po:
“Yep Karen, you know gestational crates are evil, so you don’t use them yourself yet support farmers use them just so they can make more money! You care more about the farmers’ bottom line than the welfare of animals, especially pregnant pigs, such loving and smart animals… For a woman, you’d think you’d be more sensitive to the plight of pregnant animals! What a shame. I sure hope you change heart and start vocally supporting the ban on gestational crates and better humane treatment in factory farming.
At least I speak up against the mistreatment of animals of any type, anywhere, whether here or in Iran and the Middle East at large.”
This is a shamefully dishonest statement not based on anything I have ever written or thought.
You cannot silence me from speaking my mind, however hard you try. Call me every name you can think of. It just makes me laugh at your desperation and difficulty having an intellectual discussion. Poor man. Are you over-faced by a serious discussion and facts?
Are you about to address my points Mullah karen, or as usual will you just overlook them?
If you answer them, I’ll upgrade you to Ayatollah!
Po:
Dog ownership is currently illegal in Iran. The proposed law would have added 74 lashes and a stiffer fine. They are prohibited from being kept in apartments, as their mere presence would “contaminate” the stair well. They are prohibited from being in public for the same reason. If a neighbor hears a dog bark, he can call the police to confiscate the dog. If you keep a dog in your own home that you own and do not rent, and your neighbors never see it or hear it, you might be fine.
We do not loathe dogs as a nation, think of them as unclean, or have the attitude that a dog walking by would contaminate an entire stairwell and necessitate calling the police.
Your arguments each and every single solitary time I and others criticize extremist Islam are all the proof any casual observer may require. If not, there is always the “Islamophobe”, “liar”, etc that you have thrown at me, when I have ONLY criticized extremist Islam, and made it very clear I support moderate Islam.
Sell your drivel to someone more gullible.
Yep Karen, you know gestational crates are evil, so you don’t use them yourself yet support farmers use them just so they can make more money! You care more about the farmers’ bottom line than the welfare of animals, especially pregnant pigs, such loving and smart animals… For a woman, you’d think you’d be more sensitive to the plight of pregnant animals! What a shame. I sure hope you change heart and start vocally supporting the ban on gestational crates and better humane treatment in factory farming.
At least I speak up against the mistreatment of animals of any type, anywhere, whether here or in Iran and the Middle East at large.
Bob Stone – your article was spot on. There are just some people for whom facts be damned.
Paul, I know. I raise chickens, and find it hard to eat them. Wife and kids won’t let me.
Mullah Karen
You make everything about Islam and shariah law, everything. No matter how secular the topic, you’ll find a way to turn it to Islam and shariah law. If Islam were a man, I bet you’d marry it. Why don’t you convert and just embrace your secret desire to be part of a harem? I bet I can arrange that.
Meanwhile,,,answer my points above. Here they are:
———————————–
Karen says:
Do you think the outcry of less than 100 people will make Iran reverse its position that dog ownership is illegal, and pets must be confiscated and euthanized?
———————————
Such dishonesty, hahaha…wow! remarkable! My point exactly, very obvious attempt to change the narrative, you proved my point earlier, we go from 32 MP trying to pass a law to the law being passed and already in application???!!! How do you live with such dishonesty??
Karen says:
Perhaps they will choose a more humane means of killing dogs in the future, but does that in any way address the fact that dogs are considered unclean, and illegal, in many places in the ME?
——————————–
WHat method is used to kill dogs in US shelters? Should we blame America or should we just blame Christianity?
Karen says:
You, on the other hand, consistently argue that there isn’t really a problem with extremist Islam.
————————————–
Well, offer one proof, one quote of mine and I’ll apologize here, publicly for everything I might have ever said about you. You won’t because you can’t.
Meanwhile keep supporting gestational crates and big agra’s horrific treatment of cattle and poultry, and keep enjoying the rewards of the stocks you own in it. I hope you come to your senses soon and stop supporting and defending this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki57eFs7XFo
I wonder if Po is a vegetarian.
I’ve certainly put my money where my mouth is in my opinions about how food is raised. I raise my own eggs, belong to a grass fed beef coop, and have a line on a free range hog share raised without gestational crates. One of my horses is my retired jumper, whom I’ve retired on expensive supplements and daily care long years after he was no longer rideable.
Saying I support the mistreatment of animals, either pet or livestock, is laughably inaccurate and an obvious false hare. A casual review of his contributions on every single Islamic topic shows a firm trend in his opinions.
Bob
Did your initial post deem Dorian Johnson a liar, Mike Brown a thug and a cop-mugger and the protesters “mob” yes or no?
Were all the facts available by then, yes or no?
Did you sling mud on Dorian, Mike and the protesters individually and communally, yes or no?
Were all the facts available yet, yes or no?
Were you yelling at anyone who disagreed with your narrative for not waiting for all the facts to be in, yes or no?
Did I call Darren Wilson racist anywhere, yes or no?
——————————-
These were the themes of my comments:
1- Good article, Bob.
2- However, you blame the Mike Brown supporters for not waiting for the facts to come in while, yourself are not waiting for all the facts to come in.
3- People are rightfully outraged because too many black kids are being killed by white cops.
4- I don’t trust what the cops are saying because it is what they say anytime a black person is murdered by them.
My reading the doj report or not had nothing to do with the matter of what I was saying, and still doesn’t. Though Darren Wilson was exculpated, I am still convinced that his narrative was false, just as I believed that OJ’s was also false. I have the right to that opinion. Now if you hear calling for further targeting of Darren Wilson, then you’d be right to pounce on me… until then, I have full right to my opinion.
Paul – so true. Once I name something, it’s a pet and under my protection. 🙂
Po:
I’m not a liar, and calling me such indicates you are uninterested in discussing a very serious topic.
You admitted that dogs are considered unclean because of an interpretation of Islam, and then called me an Islamophobe because I linked the above case to that motivation. I have indicated that I hope moderates reform the abuses of extremist Islam, and you have an problem with that. Calling me an Islamophobe for my reasonable position is a typical attempt to silence sincere criticism with personal attacks.
This is not an intellectually sincere discussion.
It is an indisputable fact that dogs are considered unclean under Islam. I think that’s terrible. It is also true that many moderates here in the US are able to reconcile Islam with a love of dogs. So reform the region. Focus your ire on those who loathe dogs, not on me for complaining about it or its cause.
Po: Bob, the DOJ report did NOT disprove whatever Dorian said, “credible evidence” is NOT a proof.
Po,
You’re going to hid behind semantics of your own making now?
And you have the gall to pronounce what the DOJ report did or didn’t do without obviously having read it?
My God you really are desperate to cling to that lie of yours.
Let’s review some of the highlights that you could have gleaned from the Grand Jury transcripts.
Johnson claimed:
Brown “never” reached inside the vehicle;
Brown “never” hit Wilson;
Brown “never” touched Wilson’s gun;
Brown “never” wrestled Wilson for his gun;
Blood and DNA evidence, along with corroborating eyewitness statements showed that they were all lies.
Johnson made these claims while remaining steadfast that he “never” left Brown’s side during the entire altercation with Wilson; and yet NOT ONE SINGLE WITNESS OUT OF ALL THE WITNESSES THAT CAME FORWARD PUT JOHNSON WHERE HE SWORE HE WAS.
Johnson claimed Wilson shot Brown in the back. When the autopsy showed otherwise, both Johnson and Piaget Crenshaw revised their stories to match the autopsy findings.
Johnson claimed that when Wilson shot Brown he was standing still and never took a step towards Wilson; the 22 foot long blood trail from the point he turned around proved that to be a lie.
Po: “Now, you did not wait or all the evidence to come in before you deem Dorian a liar, Mike Brown a thug, WHILE blaming the mob for reacting before the facts came to light, did you?
Some may call it hypocrisy….”
Po,
I deemed Johnson a liar once I realized his story was changing from one telling to the next and that the ultimate story was physically impossible. You obviously never analyzed Johnson’s statements to the media that were inconsistent from one telling to the next which also means you never questioned whether Johnson’s story was even remotely possible from the beginning. You never bothered to read the Grand Jury transcripts and you couldn’t even be bothered to read an 80 page report by the DOJ for the simple reason that it completely refuted the narrative you held so dear.
Po: As for your claim I called Darren Wilson a racist murderer, are we putting that one to bed or do we need to burp it first?
After bearing false witness against Wilson you somehow think you can bear false witness against me?
You repeatedly called Wilson a murderer and you repeatedly made this claim while describing how yet another unarmed black man was dead at the hands of “young white men, in uniform or not, with a sizable chip on their shoulders”
“Woe unto every sinful self-deceiver.”
Je suis Fido.
Karen, how they treat dogs is certainly consistent:
Woof!
Karen says:
Do you think the outcry of less than 100 people will make Iran reverse its position that dog ownership is illegal, and pets must be confiscated and euthanized?
———————————
Such dishonesty, hahaha…wow! remarkable! My point exactly, very obvious attempt to change the narrative, you proved my point earlier, we go from 32 MP trying to pass a law to the law being passed and already in application???!!! How do you live with such dishonesty??
Karen says:
Perhaps they will choose a more humane means of killing dogs in the future, but does that in any way address the fact that dogs are considered unclean, and illegal, in many places in the ME?
——————————–
WHat method is used to kill dogs in US shelters? Should we blame America or should we just blame Christianity?
Karen says:
You, on the other hand, consistently argue that there isn’t really a problem with extremist Islam.
————————————–
Well, offer one proof, one quote of mine and I’ll apologize here, publicly for everything I might have ever said about you. You won’t because you can’t.
Meanwhile keep supporting gestational crates and big agra’s horrific treatment of cattle and poultry, and keep enjoying the rewards of the stocks you own in it. I hope you come to your senses soon and stop supporting and defending this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki57eFs7XFo
@ Karen
Does she process the rabbits or do you? I don’t have a source for rabbit, and it is expensive at our local ranch store. But no way could I dress out a bunny myself.
She does! I was once around when they were “processing” aka killing the rabbits. I couldn’t do it. :-c She basically gives the rabbits to us already cut in quarters. I think she does something with the fur herself or sells to someone who crafts.
Down here, poultry breeders are not allowed to process their own carcasses, so you can only buy live. That would leave me with a live bird that I would inevitably name and end up keeping.
We only buy the eggs from our local people. The chickens for meat…at the store. When I did have chickens for eggs years ago, in a different location, I also gave them names. They are very amusing. It is difficult to enjoy the chickens and then wring their necks for food. I’ll just buy for now. Since there are so many people who do raise chickens and have surplus eggs, and ‘cuz I’m lazy 🙂 I’ll just trade or buy from them.
We have two big upright freezers. Things get lost in a chest freezer, in my experience. One is about 40 years old and uses the old freon mix and isn’t frost free. Once a year we have to unload everything into ice chests and defrost the built up ice. The new freon is crap and guaranteed to ruin your freezer in less than 10 years. SO we will probably buy another freezer soon to have as back up for either the grandfather freezer or our newer one which is about 8 years old and probably ready to croak.
Karen
You keep making my point. You are trying to link this particular story to Islam then complain that my reaction to that is because I can’t stand islam/islamic extremism being criticized.
I keep repeating it and you bringing back to Islam and shariah law, which is what islamophobes habitually do.
I just offered a link describing the issue as simply one of management and of social/practical issues, as it happens everywhere else…but stubbornly, you keep refusing that and keep reiterating it as fully about Islam…what does that say about you?
And just so we are clear about this, Islam does not condone the torture and random killing of any animal, including dogs or pigs. Those who subscribe to that view that dogs are unclean do not touch them or keep them as pets. So even though many in the Middle east won’t touch or keep them as pets. dogs are present in those places and are rarely harmed for the sake of harming them.
Pigs are thought to be even dirtier than dogs, yet, pigs aren’t tortured and killed either.
Finally, the perspective that frowns on touching or keeping dogs as pets, exempts those keeping a working dog.
As usual, you are very vehement on some issues(involving Muslims) and very eager to extend the benefit of the doubt to others (non-Muslims). You supported the mass murder of Palestinian women and children because, as you justified, Israel needs to protect itself. Here you support gestational crates and the systematic abuse of cattle and poultry because “raising meat is expensive”?
Po:
“One of the largest protests was held April 19 outside Tehran’s Environmental Protection Organization (EPO), where dozens of animal rights activists asked EPO head Masoumeh Ebtekar to pursue the case. Ebtekar addressed the protesters, saying, “Animal abuse is unacceptable under any condition and we are pursuing the case.” She added: “The general director of Fars Province for the EPO said that syringes have been found but some of the issues of the case are not clear because the municipality [of Shiraz] denies the story.””
The LARGEST protest had 36 people? How many dozens? Do you think the outcry of less than 100 people will make Iran reverse its position that dog ownership is illegal, and pets must be confiscated and euthanized? Perhaps they will choose a more humane means of killing dogs in the future, but does that in any way address the fact that dogs are considered unclean, and illegal, in many places in the ME?
It’s really super that some people in Iran disagree with this policy, as Professor Turley’s article pointed out. My hope is that they can reform from within.
You, on the other hand, consistently argue that there isn’t really a problem with extremist Islam.
So weird. I cannot imagine investing this much effort into denying and excusing the Catholic pedophile priest scandal.
DBQ – we have high predation here, too. Our local coyote pack dens annually right next to our house. Our cattle dogs rigidly enforce our boundaries, and our chicken coop/run is impenetrable to predators, unless they bring a jackhammer or TNT. One of the reasons why I got my own flock is because humanely raised, organic, free range eggs cost upwards of $7.50/dozen, and “free range” can mean shuffling around in a crowd. If I didn’t have my own flock I would probably buy them locally from a backyard flock.
If you change your minds about keeping hens, you can build a reinforced chicken coop, and/or get a livestock guardian dog like an Anatolian Shepherd. I know lots of Alpaca farmers have them. They’re quite friendly with strangers as long as the owner is around. But if you, or a coyote, tries to hop the fence at night, you’re not going to make it. If you don’t want a large dog, you can just build a roomy coop.
Does she process the rabbits or do you? I don’t have a source for rabbit, and it is expensive at our local ranch store. But no way could I dress out a bunny myself.
You’re lucky you found a local producer of poultry. Down here, poultry breeders are not allowed to process their own carcasses, so you can only buy live. That would leave me with a live bird that I would inevitably name and end up keeping. I’ve got to get over this squeamishness, because one of my hens has gone broody again and wants to hatch out eggs. Which would mean I’d get some roos. I’m trying not to be such a hypocrite, buying meat when I refuse to process it myself.
Do you have a chest freezer, and if so, what size? I got a small one, and regret thinking I would have a hard time filling it. It’s not even close to big enough!