The massacre in San Bernadino, California is as baffling as it is chilling. I am very familiar with the Redlands and San Bernadino areas since I would spend summers in the area growing up and still have relatives there (including one of the officers responding to this shooting). What is so chilling is the lack of any indication of such an act from a couple that seemed to be living the American dream with a good income and new baby . . . and highly supportive colleagues who they proceeded to slaughter.
For me, the three most chilling facts are the following.
First, Syed Farook, 28, had a good work relationship with these people (he made $51,000 a year as an environmental health specialist for the county) and sat at an office party shortly before killing them. It appears that he may have gotten into an argument with with colleague Nicholas Thalasinos (right), a Messianic Jew who was one of the victims. Thalasinos was known to write caustic comments about Islam on the Internet. (His wife says that Thalasinos often wrote about radical Islam but was friendly with Farook). The argument discussed in the media may have occurred a couple weeks before the party and it is not clear whether the argument had rekindled shortly before the shooting. (One account has Farook telling Thalasinos that he “will never see Israel.”) However, it is clear that these two murderers were planning for terrorism based on the search of their home. A witness said that when Farook disappeared just before the photo session at the party, someone asked, “Where’s Syed?”
Second, both he and his wife Tashfeen Malik, 27, dropped off their 6-month-old girl with his mother Wednesday morning, claiming he had a doctor’s appointment. So these two were willing to abandon their baby in some pursuit of paradise — attaining glory through the slaughter of innocents.
Third, these were not strangers. Not only had these victims worked at Farook’s side, but they actually threw a baby shower for this couple who later slaughtered 14 people (and wounded 17).
Both were devout Muslims who appeared at the party (after Farook left) in dark tactical gear and masks with assault rifles and handguns. From their profiles, these two people would be viewed as well adjusted and well grounded in society. Farook actually called himself a “modern Muslim” on social media to distinguish himself from more traditional Muslims. On his dating profile before he met Malik he said that he was “living life to the fullest” and that he wanted a woman who was interested in “snow boarding, to go out and eat with friends, go camping, working on cars with me.” Indeed, Farook is quoted as telling his colleagues that Americans do not understand Islam and then proceeds to confirm that worst stereotype of Islam by critics.
Farook recently went to Saudi Arabia and may have been radicalized while in the Kingdom (a hotbed for extremism). He traveled to Saudi Arabia in 2013 to meet Malik’s family (who are from Pakistan), and then again in July 2014 to marry her. He would later be in contact with known terrorist figures according to police.
At their home, police say that they found an IED factory and 7,000 rounds of ammunition for assault rifles, 9-mm. handguns and .22-caliber rifles. So whatever the argument may have done, there was clearly planning for an attack if these accounts prove accurate. The argument may have triggered the massacre but the arsenal suggests that a massacre may have been in the works. What is clear is that both of these individuals were powder kegs before any argument with a co-worker.
The greatest question however remains the road to radicalism. We have seen this pattern before of men visiting Saudi Arabia or Syria and coming back radicalized and unstable.
What jump to conclusions? You mean the conclusion that jihadi Bonnie and Clyde massacred, in cold blood, fellow workers? That conclusion? That they were armed to the gills with bombs, guns and bullets? That they have been linked to extremists, both locally and abroad? Want us to meditate on that? Go ahead, you meditate on that. You want people to swallow some bs about this being a random workplace episode of violence when every indication points in the opposite direction? Is that what you want? I have no more desire to know or understand these two murdering terrorists than I have to know or understand Ted Bundy or Charles Manson. The dangerous ideology, despite your soft spot for all things Muslim, will not change–despite your understanding. The time is not to be quiet. Unlike the quiet neighbors who observed suspicious activity and were shamed, by individuals like you, to remain silent out of some faux fear of being labeled an Islamaphobe, the world is finally understanding that cowering in fear is a recipe for certain annihilation. There is no understanding people whose mission is destroy all infidels. Good luck with your understanding. It will never save you from having your head separated from the rest of your body, but you keep on trying to understand.
“There is no understanding people whose mission is destroy all infidels. Good luck with your understanding.”
Even if their actions were completely random, that would be important information because it could prevent much wasted effort. If their actions are not random then there are patterns. Understanding those patterns and perhaps the motivations behind them has the potential to guide our actions, increase our effectiveness and to save many lives.
Know your enemy.
We have already wasted more than a decade in the middle east, many lives and vital resources. That memory ought to be sobering to anyone who thinks they know this couple or what action we should take now.
Understanding their motives, if they were working with anyone, and if so who would be nice things to know. Of course, there are those who counsel we should just lash out – but at who, in what direction?
There is an answer to all this. But if anyone knows that answer now I wish they would please speak up.
bigfatmile is absolutely right
“well educated, professional Muslim men living with all the benefits and freedoms of western society willingly kill themselves (and others) for political martyrdom. And now we have a well-educated, professional young Muslim woman (a pharmacist), leave her infant child as an orphan in order to gain martyrdom for slaughtering “infidels.” So the problem is not the Muslims. They are what they are, and what they always have been. The problem is the Westerners who just absolutely refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation, because it conflicts with their arrogant belief that everyone in the world wants to be like us and think like us and value what we value. They don’t”.
Islam is one of the view religions with a political agenda. Historically it became a political force. Both Christians and Jews fought to expand Islam’s political aims because the Muslims left these allies alone to raise their own taxes and to practise their own religion.
The problem with Islam lies with the hadiths i.e. collections of the reports claiming to quote what the prophet Muhammad said verbatim on any matter. It has been the cause of the Sunni Shia split and recurring civil wars.
I agree that Westerners believe that everyone wants to be like us and that this is arrogant. If Muslims want their own society that’s fair enough. But if they want to impose such a society in America on others who are not of the faith, that is a different matter.
I think that terrorist outrages have an objective to change American foreign policy. This has to be the aim and as such it will succeed – one way or another. Whether is succeeds or not depends on America and her Allies’ determination to back off as in Vietnam – or to Win. And by winning I mean total victory. As in WW2.
And I don’t think the West has the stomach for this sort of conflict. And ISIS is counting on that.
Does anyone have a time line for the event?
The WAPO has an article that tells us the couple dropped off their infant that morning, that Farook appeared (normally)at the meeting (without his wife?), Farook left the meeting and returned with his wife and began shooting.
Better information about the timing of dropping off the infant, the location of the wife prior to the shooting, and the amount of time that elapsed between Farook’s leaving the meeting and returning with his wife to begin the attack would do much to tell us whether this was a planned attack or if there is any possibility some personal interaction sparked a spontaneous outburst.
So what and who is Farook – a cool sleeper agent trained to attack at a decisive moment or a psychotic employee who exploded in rage over some perceived slight.
“Do your safe, rational people keep a supply of dark, tactical outfits on hand for, you know, just in case? Do your safe, rational friends stockpile assault rifles and handguns? ”
Are you asking about our Oath Keeper acquaintances, our right wing militia casual acquaintances, or the law abiding neighbor who competes in organized combat shooting?
Being vigilant means not jumping to conclusions. At this point the facts suggest many possibilities. Leaping to conclusions has as much potential to distract our attention from the real threat as does denying connections.
Know your enemy. At this point we have just started to know and understand this couple and what drove them to such ferocity. Now is the time to be quiet, be thoughtful and let the facts speak.
Did they ever relabel Maj. Hasan’s Ft. Hood shooting spree as othet than “workplace violence”.
Given time, they might (if they haven’t already done so).
For some reason, I’m thinking about George C. Scott’s caution to the President (Peter Sellers), in jumping to any conclusions about Gen.Ripper’s order to nuke the USSR.
“Well, I’d hate to make a judgement before all the facts are in”.
I think Ninian has given a previous lecture on “understanding”.
99/Fellow Calabrese (Rizzuti)
I didn’t mean to jump the gun in anticipating that this would be deemed workplace violence.
It may have been just a JV benchwarmer wanaby couple, seeking varsity recognition.
Ah, well, the night couldn’t end without Hildegard, the highly astute and sensitive person who showed clips of the Paris massacre, touting the ridiculous and bizarre claim that it was all a part of some deliberate sham–a mere play being performed, in which French actors pretended to have injuries and were drenched in ketchup to mimic blood-stained clothing. Remember that? How’s that goin’ for ya, Hilde? Were the funerals bogus? Empty caskets to fool the masses? Tinfoil hat time, folks.
I think that rational people might be concerned about 1993 WTC bombing (just a crazy blind sheik and a few followers), the Bin Laden threats and capabilities (U.S. embassy bombings, U.S. Cole, 9-11 WTC etc attacks, as a possible danger from islamic jihadists.
But maybe we can just say”workplace violence or jv team” and just screw it.
Ninian….good to hear from you again…when you have any useful, practical suggestions, try again.
You need to know your enemy. The American adventure in the Middle East has only made the situation worse. In the search for Bin Laden they even invaded the wrong country. In the Gulf War Weapons of Mass Destruction never existed. The Achilles heel in US foreign policy is the unshakeable belief that the American way is Freedom, Liberty and Justice and then they go into a sovereign State to Assassinate an Enemy Leader in true CIA Style.
No arrest. No trial. No conviction. No probity. No wonder….
This is not the way of things in a Free World no matter how justifiable.
Whilst there is every sympathy for the American position post 9/11 this sort of attitude of “we make the rules and break them as and when we see fit”, portrays America in a certain light which has only increased the determination of some to join the enemy. Large numbers of Americans will not see things in this way and this is understandable. But others do not and the results are seen in San Bernardino. And we are talking about large numbers of well educated individuals with minds of their own, who somehow have been “radicalised”. It is conveniently forgotten that such radicalisation has a relationship with opposition to American Foreign Policy and interference in a region in which they are not welcome by significant numbers of the population. For others they will have been brainwashed though planned psychological programmes.
The US, UK French and other governments are taking limited military action in the Middle East without any strategy or end game nor Post Conflict Plans. And with no troops on the ground. They are doing this on the pretext of protecting home soil. The concept is ridiculous.
Why is this the case? It is primarily related to public opinion and a total lack of political acumen. Readers may ridicule such analysis to their heart’s content; but it is the case now that anarchy exists in the Middle East Warring States and nothing the Allies are doing is rectifying this situation. Collective Allied Foreign Policy has resulted in the rise of radical groups, well-organised and amply funded as never before . The UK solution is to send 2 tornado aircraft on bombing missions with x3 bombs a piece. If you look a America’s third world defeat in Vietnam despite heavy bombing and fighting with ground troops you can see no lessons have been learned – and this is amazing.
So America and her allies need to step back and examine why an enemy can recruit intelligent and educated youngsters willing to blow themselves up with innocent citizens on US and allied soil. Why is it that America lacks this power to recruit support? Why do such enemies enjoy the “freedom” America provides and then turn on the hand that feeds it. No one on this blog has answered these questions, but until these issues are understood there will be no solution.
At the end of WW2 why did the Nazi Party not rise again and continue in guerrilla mode? Why did most of the Nazi agents sent to the UK in WW2 give themselves up immediately on landing? Why did Japanese Imperialists not rise and continue guerrilla action? Why in South Vietnam, did the people not rise against the “oppressive yoke” of Communism?
I am arguing that the answer to our current problems lies somewhere in these examples. It is just not possible that American Leaders are not looking at these issues, but taking the right course of action is another matter.
The solution does not lie in rhetoric shooting from the hip nor mouth. It lies in a strategy for all-out-victory. Not just on the battlefield, but for the hearts and minds of every citizen.
Do your safe, rational people keep a supply of dark, tactical outfits on hand for, you know, just in case? Do your safe, rational friends stockpile assault rifles and handguns? Do they have connections with others who are deemed to be a security threat, both abroad and domestically? Given the way this whole catastrophe has been downplayed by the POTUS and the sniveling MSM, why would you think that a declaration regarding the discovery of an IED factory in the home is an exaggeration? If anything, O’dumbbell and his minions want to turn this into a fluke–a hair trigger event, where passions were inflamed and someone just lost it after some spiked punch. The IED factory debunks that fantasy. It doesn’t go with the narrative, which makes it that much more credible. O’dumbbell wants us to believe that this mass murder was an aberration, where no concerted effort and prior planning was involved. When will you be satisfied? When you, yourself, are called in to personally inspect the premises?
The San Bernardino Shooting Is Following The False Flag Mass Shooting Script – Episode 833b
X22Report
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG_JSzq51sg
Mass Shootings under the Last Five Presidents
Ronald Reagan: 1981-1989 (8 years) 11 mass shootings
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 5
George H. W. Bush: 1989-1993 (4 years) 12 mass murders
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 3
Bill Clinton: 1993-2001 (8 years) 23 mass murders
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 4
George W. Bush: 2001-2009 (8 years) 20 mass murders
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 5
Barrack H. Obama: 2009-2015 (in 7th year) 162 mass murders
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 18
You need to understand the reason behind the creation of “angry young men”. What recruitment drive is in process?
What makes educated individuals behave in this way? Are such individuals working freelance or are they part of an organisation? Why are they so disaffected with a system whose “freedom” they apparently enjoy and in which they participate?
I would argue that it takes a certain type of person to commit these acts of mass murder. A lack of empathy and psychopathy should be a key factor, but the really chilling thing is the comparative lack of condemnation and even support by non participants, who might otherwise be regarded as moderate. There has to be a reason for this and I don’t believe it is of religious persuasion. What we are witnessing is the hijacking of religion for political purpose. I would refer you to history of the Kharajites*
*”those who defected from the group in rebellion against the 3rd and 4th Caliphs in 644″
The problem is confounded in the United States by the right to bear arms. Such behaviour is considered normal, even cherished, and Americans are paying the price for this choice. Detection of potential mass murderers is made more difficult and dangerous in this situation.
The solution, if indeed there is one, is in education, and the elimination of marginalisation. With respect to foreign policy, America and her allies need to reappraise current policy and try to understand why effort motivated by American concepts of freedom and liberty have been rejected by large sections of an “un-American” society, which appears to favour a political system based on (religious) subjugation.
And one final thing, if you go to War, you need to fight to win. You need to understand that bombing in the Middle East is not targeting terrorists already in the United States. You need to engage in combat with the same determination as your enemy. On all fronts, military, intelligence, political and strategic. You need to ensure your allies are “the good guys”. And there aren’t many of them around.
At home we all need to practise what we preach. America claims she stands for freedom and this needs to be demonstrated. She has instead behaved more like a Police State alienating large numbers of citizens and unwittingly promoting encouraging social anarchy, which is yet to be recognised.
The current rise of ISIS is directly related to a foreign policy failure and we ignore these issues at out peril.
I prefer to wait and hear much more evidence before arriving at any conclusions. Many reporters talk about things they do not understand or take the word of officials who either have an agenda or don’t know what they are talking about.
I know quite a bit about pipe bombs. It is not clear how realistic the reporting about the pipe bombs is. 7,000 rounds of ammo may or may not be an excessive amount. I know “safe , rational ” people who have that much ammo.
Too little is reliably reported at this time to reach any rational conclusions.
99guspuppet aka Gus S. Calabrese
Materialize or appear. . .
Nothing to see here, folks. Just a “workplace violence” episode, as with Major Has an at Ft.Hood.
You must be Islamophobic to suggest otherwise.
THE ARGUMENT MAY HAVE TRIGGERED THE MASSACRE, BUT THE ARSENAL SUGGESTS THAT A MASSACRE MAY HAVE BEEN IN THE WORKS?
MAY? Did you really write MAY have been in the works? What kind of nonsensical gibberish are you offering, JT? The jihadi Bonnie and Clyde wannabes had an f’ing bomb-making factory in their home. Did you miss that? That didn’t instantaneously materialize appear after a disagreement at a holiday party over some warm eggnog. Neither did the multiple guns, rounds of ammunition or the tactical outfits. You, honestly, truly think that a holiday scuffle instigated that? Please, JT, how about a little intellectual honesty here? You’re touted–and deservedly so–as one of this country’s great legal minds–surely, you didn’t achieve that stellar reputation by posing such ridiculous platitudes. What possible reason could these two young people have–you know, the ones who were allegedly striving to achieve the American dream–for having this in their home? Some sort of cottage industry, where Fatima was going to make a few bucks on the side to supplement her husband’s income? What possible explanation could you offer for the multiple rounds of ammunition that they possessed? The handguns? The AK-47s? The dark, tactical outfits?
You still wanna go with the nonsense about an argument POSSIBLY triggering this massacre? You wanna still speculate that a massacre MAY have been in the works? How about you call this for what it was? You, like the neighbors who lived near this couple, are fearful of calling it as you see it–fearful of being labeled an Islamaphobe. The neighbors now, of course, claim that men were routinely seen coming and going from this home; their suspicions, however, were quelled because they didn’t want to be labeled Islamaphobes by reporting them to the authorities, which, quite possibly, could’ve saved a dozen and a half lives. Please, stop the pandering.
Nick
you don’t have to be a “Radical Islamic terrorists” to work for the the US or local government and feel disaffected.
I suspect you’re going to see a lot more “disaffected people” from all walks of life in the US soon enough, in fact the biggest threat in the US is ‘domestic terrorism.’
The government has been working hard on pushing this meme since the banks failed in 2008, and If you want a real idea of how many disaffected people there are in the US, just look at Trump and Bernie Sanders poll numbers.
Further, the trend in disaffected people; those who bought into the American Dream and lost and are now in their 40s and 50s, are killing themselves in record numbers – it won’t be long before they decide to make a statement and not die alone.
It’s funny you mention oranges. That area used to be, literally, oranges. There were certainly more oranges than people from, how you say, foreign countries. And those oranges never threatened any of us. The oranges started goin’ out when the foreign invaders, oops, I mean foreign “immigrants,” started comin’ in as we, Americans, deliberately put the birthrate in a “death spiral.” Looks like the world ignored the “campground is full” sign. And look what happened to our sleepy little towns in Southern California.
C’est la vie.
and what exactly is being radicalized?
is this achieved by bobbing back and forth reading REDRUM or being shown endless pictures of little babies the US, EU and Israel have blown to pieces in their cribs?
I’ve seen the results in the US when cops shoot innocent to questionable to mentally unstable black people played over and over on the TV – I have to wonder what would happen if cops started shooting or blowing up little black kids up in their beds.
So Who or What is REALLY radicalizing these people?
And who really wins in the end – the fantasy of martyrdom or the weapons investors making profits killing little kids?
Cui Bono?
Follow the money
Radical Islam speaks to angry young men. I worked for the govt. and got out because there were so many disaffected people, unhappy w/ life. I deal w/ govt. employees on a daily basis. The key is finding people who are actually happy and like their work. They provide good service. So, the fact that a guy who works in a cubicle, and spends the rest of his work day inspecting restaurants, w/ probably a good amount of conflict, is angry, does not surprise me. The way these angry young men are radicalized is what is shocking. This guy seems to be from a normal family. His brother served a tour in the Navy on an aircraft carrier.
If only our President could bring himself to say, “Radical Islamic terrorists” maybe we could start dealing w/ the problem. He is petulant, self absorbed, and feckless. Not good qualities in a leader when evil is infecting our culture.
“…men visiting Saudi Arabia or Syria and coming back radicalized and unstable.”
exactly how does this work?
seems to me the level of indoctrination to such an extreme woud take more than a vacation or two,
is some drug administered ala Clockwork Orange?
btw is this just Saudi Arabia and Syria they go to to become radicalized or just whatever country we’re trying to take over currently?
I’m puzzled; why is the fact that one of the victims allegedly someone who wrote “caustic” (whatever that means) comments about Islam relevant? Is this another case of someone who is offended being given permission to kill whoever they want?
Neither of these murderers has any excuse. They walked into a holiday party and mowed people down. With all the weapons and gear they had this was a premeditated action.
Good job, young child but killing people was just too important to them. No excuses.
We really need to boycott Saudi Arabia.
“baffling”. Yes,but no. American Muslims being radicalized is not uncommon now. What I fear is the reaction of government that will enact laws that further limit my freedom of speech and movement.