The massacre in San Bernadino, California is as baffling as it is chilling. I am very familiar with the Redlands and San Bernadino areas since I would spend summers in the area growing up and still have relatives there (including one of the officers responding to this shooting). What is so chilling is the lack of any indication of such an act from a couple that seemed to be living the American dream with a good income and new baby . . . and highly supportive colleagues who they proceeded to slaughter.
For me, the three most chilling facts are the following.
First, Syed Farook, 28, had a good work relationship with these people (he made $51,000 a year as an environmental health specialist for the county) and sat at an office party shortly before killing them. It appears that he may have gotten into an argument with with colleague Nicholas Thalasinos (right), a Messianic Jew who was one of the victims. Thalasinos was known to write caustic comments about Islam on the Internet. (His wife says that Thalasinos often wrote about radical Islam but was friendly with Farook). The argument discussed in the media may have occurred a couple weeks before the party and it is not clear whether the argument had rekindled shortly before the shooting. (One account has Farook telling Thalasinos that he “will never see Israel.”) However, it is clear that these two murderers were planning for terrorism based on the search of their home. A witness said that when Farook disappeared just before the photo session at the party, someone asked, “Where’s Syed?”
Second, both he and his wife Tashfeen Malik, 27, dropped off their 6-month-old girl with his mother Wednesday morning, claiming he had a doctor’s appointment. So these two were willing to abandon their baby in some pursuit of paradise — attaining glory through the slaughter of innocents.
Third, these were not strangers. Not only had these victims worked at Farook’s side, but they actually threw a baby shower for this couple who later slaughtered 14 people (and wounded 17).
Both were devout Muslims who appeared at the party (after Farook left) in dark tactical gear and masks with assault rifles and handguns. From their profiles, these two people would be viewed as well adjusted and well grounded in society. Farook actually called himself a “modern Muslim” on social media to distinguish himself from more traditional Muslims. On his dating profile before he met Malik he said that he was “living life to the fullest” and that he wanted a woman who was interested in “snow boarding, to go out and eat with friends, go camping, working on cars with me.” Indeed, Farook is quoted as telling his colleagues that Americans do not understand Islam and then proceeds to confirm that worst stereotype of Islam by critics.
Farook recently went to Saudi Arabia and may have been radicalized while in the Kingdom (a hotbed for extremism). He traveled to Saudi Arabia in 2013 to meet Malik’s family (who are from Pakistan), and then again in July 2014 to marry her. He would later be in contact with known terrorist figures according to police.
At their home, police say that they found an IED factory and 7,000 rounds of ammunition for assault rifles, 9-mm. handguns and .22-caliber rifles. So whatever the argument may have done, there was clearly planning for an attack if these accounts prove accurate. The argument may have triggered the massacre but the arsenal suggests that a massacre may have been in the works. What is clear is that both of these individuals were powder kegs before any argument with a co-worker.
The greatest question however remains the road to radicalism. We have seen this pattern before of men visiting Saudi Arabia or Syria and coming back radicalized and unstable.
A terrible event and very disturbing discussion.
Thank you ninianpeckitt for your insight into the role of the hadiths. Will look into it more. But behind the hadiths is the fountain of Islamic truth: the Coran and there is no deviation among the various Islamic sects, each of which places more or less importance on the hadiths, that the Coran is the source of truth since it is the word of Allah. Consequently, where the Coran as written comes into conflict with any source of man-made law, it is the latter that must give way. This creates an insurmountable problem for Islamists living in countries governed by man-made laws.
Les isles I agree that no Muslim would argue with Koranic texts. It’s the hadiths that cause the problem. In the same way Christian Sects argue and fight. In the same way that lawyers argue over the meaning of the Constitution.
It is the hadiths that permit the hijacking of religion and the subjugation of women etc in the same way the NRA defines what is meant in the second ammendment which is misquoted and manipulated.
Monty Z. As far as I know, the 9-11 attacks had nothing to do with gun control, or lack of gun control.
How effective were French gun control laws in preventing the Paris attacks?
The Russians should bomb Saudi. Let the whole middle east go down in fire. Let’s get the show on the road. WW3 will happen and then as the US tries to implement draconian laws here, there will be a Civil war in America and the core population is going to eject all the foreigners or die trying. Enough talk! It’s inexorable trajectory of what the plutocracy is trying to do by small degrees but the pot is going to boil over and the froggie will jump. Salta ranita, salta!
We are witnessing history in action. Over the past several years, since 9/11, with the continuing rise in Islamic claimed terrorism, Islam has morphed in the minds of some into the problem, leaving the mentally deranged aspect in the dust. Now it is Islam, something tangible to receive the venting spleen of all the helpless, frustrated, and insignificant; who are also armed to the teeth and their claims of ‘cold dead hands’.
Could it be that there is more than one problem here and gun fanaticism may be one of them, Nahhhh.
With his status in society so Americn, and him turning as he did, what does it say about trusting others in his group?
I think Paul is on to something…..I have read several places that the coworker pictured above (Nicholas Thalasinos) was described as “caustic” and “very provocative” in his pro-Israel, anti-Muslim comments and postings on social media. Apparently he and the shooter got into another of their frequent arguments, and Farook left in a rage, then came back shortly thereafter to open fire on everyone. Given the stockpile of weapons, ammunition, pipe bombs, remote controlled devices, and so forth, it certainly appears that Farook and his wife were planning a terrorist attack somewhere, but perhaps not at that particular location. It’s rather difficult to comprehend that his colleagues threw him a baby shower, and he turned around and massacred them a few months later…..but then again, the Muslim contempt for non-Muslims is difficult to fathom.
This brings back memories of the embassy bombings, USS Cole bombing, 1993 WTC NY oil & fertilizer truck bombing during the Bill Clinton administration.
Now the targets are Christmas parties at facilities that takes of the handicapped. Easy targets are nursing homes with old people in wheel chairs.
It may be possible that the couple was planning something down the road and then something tipped him over the edge. According to reports he had 3 pipebombs with a remote that didn’t detonate and another 9 at the home. Whatever it was, this was going to be a team effort.
The other side of this is that Obama was complaining that the Republican govenors do not want to take Syrian Muslim refugees who are women and children. He was touting that they were not dangerous. Guess that is another one he can walk back.
Tin Ear has it right on all points. Islam and democracy are incompatible. Repeat…Islam and democracy are incompatible. It doesn’t matter what brand of Islam, hot, warm, or cold, is concerned or what region is promoting its own brand. This is because the Koran is law for Islam. Professor Turley should begin to appreciate this dimension of Islam a little better. It explains much of Islamists personal behavior as well as the political action of Islamic states. When we, in the west talk of the rule of law, we mean the US Constitution, legislation and judicial decision making. All of these guides/rights/restrictions on our and our nation’s actions mean nothing to an Islamic person or state whose behavior and decisions are governed by a single law, the Koran. The Koran calls for what might be called Islamic imperialism through the use of the Jihad. Islam is much more than a religious doctrine, it is an ideology which is totalitarian in nature. The most active source for the propagation of this ideology currently is Saudi Arabia and Quatar, both good friends of all western countries, unfortunately. There is a great deal of work and thinking to be done to reverse this process but the first step is the realisation that Islam is uncompromising in its vision of democracy as the work of the devil and we should equally uncompromising in the defense of individual freedom.
Less isles: is correct in most of what he says. Except that the problems of Islam lie in the different hadiths which are at variance with scripture and which are manipulated for political purposes.
This is a powerful weapon to counter jihadism and this is not understood in the West.
Reblogged this on Centinel2012 and commented:
To understand what happened one must first understand Islam. I would suggest reading a 6o page summery prepared by Dr. Bill Warner which can be found on his website http://www.politicalislam.com and is titled “The Foundations of Islam A Self-Study Course” I believe it was under $10.00 and its the best book on the subject i have found. It is a summery but if you don’t understand the apparent duality of Islam after reading it then you never will. The book is fact based on opinion based Dr. Warner is a scientist and treats the subject objectively.
BitchinDog here: Hotsie totsie I smell a Nazi. That was Curley of the Three Stooges. BarkinDog is a bit mad at the terrorists today. They are here to stay we just have to live with it. Avoid gatherings at old folks homes and what not. We do not have to become Nazis to get along in the world. Maybe just don’t talk to tent heads and then they won’t know you and won’t target you. We Americans are critical of the Israeli’s for trying to curb terrorist behavior so we cannot be hypocrits. We might be critters already. And we might be dumb. But we cannot be rude to some person because of their thought process. BarkinDog went off to poop in some Islamic guy’s yard so I jumped onto the Dogalogue Machine while he is gone.
OK, Po. Tell us why this is happening.
We have a choice not an echo. The Donald may be too timid for what we need. But he may be the best thing on the political table right now. And do not listen to Curley from the Three Stooges. I am not a Nazi and forget about hotsie totsie- whether you can smell or not.
I have a good beginning for a solution to the Islamic Terrorists (IT’s) in the world. We form a political party and nominate candidates for the House and Senate. If Trump loses the RepubliCon Party nomination then get him to run on our ticket. We simply turn the lame weeny phrase right back at em. We call it the “Islamic Phob Party”. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. That is a quote from some dork from New York (no rhyme intended) named FDR.
One party platform will be to identify all persons who have left America in the past 20 years and gone to an Islamic pirate territory for a visit. This is the “itShay List”. All persons on the itShay List have to report in daily to the gestapo and each will have their homes, cars and persons searched early and often. They will have forfeited their Second Amendment rights to arm bears. Their free speech rights to yak on the internet will be denied. They cannot attend a Mosque or wear a birka or other head piece. They can be shipped to Buchenwald or Gitmo without notice, without probable cause, without hearing and sooner than later.
The San Bernadino routine is coming to a theatre near you and a neighborhood nearer to you. These dorks are everywhere. So be aware or be square.
Soon the people of Paris and San Bernadino will be seeking out their respective Hitlers. Time is of the essence.
Get off your arses and do something before you or your kid is dead.
I wish WordPress had the edit function available on most boards. (“True Muslimis” above should be “True Muslims”)
Oh, by the way, current Christian terrorists are the Abortion Clinic Killers. (https://youtu.be/U26yRd0u8iw)
Let’s see. If I have my facts right. 1) Most of the 9/11 bombers were from Saudi Arabia. 2) Farook and others go to Saudi Arabia and get “radicalized.” (That is in scare quotes because, in fact, they become True Muslimis.) 3) the Saudi get military aid from the US. 4) They are our “allies.”
The Farooks’ kind of Islam is exactly what the Koran says.* The Christian parallel is the Salem witch trials in which the Bible was taken literally. (Ex. 22:18)
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*The Koran’s 164 Jihad Verses: K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008 (http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html)
Bam bam: We’ve seen this over and over again….well educated, professional Muslim men living with all the benefits and freedoms of western society willingly kill themselves (and others) for political martyrdom. And now we have a well-educated, professional young Muslim woman (a pharmacist), leave her infant child as an orphan in order to gain martyrdom for slaughtering “infidels.” So the problem is not the Muslims. They are what they are, and what they always have been. The problem is the Westerners who just absolutely refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation, because it conflicts with their arrogant belief that everyone in the world wants to be like us and think like us and value what we value. They don’t.
It is not always possible to find rational or logical thinking in irrational persons refusing to accept ideas other than their own who cloister themselves in a feedback loop of anger and vengeance.
Equally important is to recognize that not everyone values the same benefits as society does. The mindset these jihadists get into is mostly terminal in its outlook. When the human mind loses all sense of reality and values not the lives of innocents and themselves, attempting to negotiate with it is often not worth the risk. It will kill you at a moment’s opportunity.
When the military or police face an in-progress terrorist act, pussy-footing around is going to result in more innocents dying. You end it now, and prosecute them under rule .308
It sounds harsh but that is what our enemy has brought to us.
TinEar
A well-written and smart comment–no doubt, the apologists for Islam will either tell you to wait and meditate upon the recent events before daring to form an opinion or simply deem you to be a dreadful Islamaphobe. Nice to see someone tell it like it is.
Islam is an all encompassing ideology that has never distinquished between religion and politics. That distinction is a Western concept that Americans and Europeans are trying to superimpose on an ideology that they don’t understand. So we invent the distinctions of “moderate” vs. “radical” Muslims, which are completely nonsensical to anyone who has lived or worked in the Middle East or studied those cultures. Mohammed himself expressed concern that his new religion would wither if the religious aspect where ever separated from the imperialistic, political aspect. Thus he commanded his followers to “Fight all men until they say ‘There is no God but Allah.” That command was cited by Khomeini in 1979 and bin Laden 2001. And that command drove the Muslim armies in the 7th century to conquer incredible swaths of land in an amazingly short period of time. The Muslims ruled Spain for 500 years; as well as significant territories in the Balkans and of course the entire Ottoman Empire that pushed Islam into India and all the way to the edge of China. There has never been any political ideology in the history of the world that expanded so quickly and decisively. The Muslims still sting at the defeat of the Ottomans at the end of WWI and the carving up of the ME by western powers. Today’s young jihadis on the internet speak of nothing but the imperative to return Islam to its former glory, and establish a caliphate much like the Ottoman Empire that ruled half the world and menaced the other half with armies that sacked the Roman Catholic Church at Constaninople and won military victories in France, Hungary, Poland and Austria. So the only question for Westerners is whether you want to accept Islam for what it is, or pretend that your “moderate” Muslim neighbor is just like you, that his job and house and SUV are more import to him than his core identity as a Muslim, until he rises up one day and slaughters you. Remember, the 9-11 hijackers were not disaffected sheep herders. They had everything western society could offer: well educated (some were engineers); nice American homes and cars, and the Fort Hood shooter was a physician. There is no bribing Muslims with material success. They don’t think
like westerners. Like it or not, they are not willing to forgo eternal glory for a new car.
TinEar is right Islam is a political movement and this is not understood by the West. The terms moderate and radical are inappropriate.
“There has never been any political ideology in the history of the world that expanded so quickly and decisively” This is absolutely true but happened because others (including Christians and Jews) willingly fought for the Muslims because their autonomy was granted. The only taxes they paid were to the Muslim Army for defence. It was an ingenious system and the Caliphate spread like wildfire.
TinEar is absolutely right to think that from a traditional perspective, Muslims do not think like Westerners.
But he is wrong to think that things are not changing. And they are changing rapidly through education and exposure to Western Culture. Politically, democracy has never been the Islamic way of doing things.
The real problem in Islam are the hadiths. They are the source of the greatest conflict not just with the West but within Islam itself.
What is to be done about it?
American Society and Law must prevail in America. Foreign Policy and the role of America in the Middle East requires review. This might have an positive influence on recruitment of disaffected educated Muslims to radical groups.
If a War is to be fought, it should be fought to Win an absolute Victory.
Sadly, Kalifornia is a target-rich environment for these fanatics. Law-abiding citizens are given the runaround for weeks to months just to own a pistol for protection, but the criminal terrorists have free access to pretty much anything they desire. Going up against a terrorist with an AR-15 and 7,000 rounds? Good luck with your 9mm with 10 rounds, the maximum allowed by the Kommunists in power there. Barbarellovich Boxsky says these laws are working. Yup, against the citizenry.
And only 7,000 rounds? DHS has authorized and contracted for the purchase of more than 2 billion rounds over five years.