The massacre in San Bernadino, California is as baffling as it is chilling. I am very familiar with the Redlands and San Bernadino areas since I would spend summers in the area growing up and still have relatives there (including one of the officers responding to this shooting). What is so chilling is the lack of any indication of such an act from a couple that seemed to be living the American dream with a good income and new baby . . . and highly supportive colleagues who they proceeded to slaughter.
For me, the three most chilling facts are the following.
First, Syed Farook, 28, had a good work relationship with these people (he made $51,000 a year as an environmental health specialist for the county) and sat at an office party shortly before killing them. It appears that he may have gotten into an argument with with colleague Nicholas Thalasinos (right), a Messianic Jew who was one of the victims. Thalasinos was known to write caustic comments about Islam on the Internet. (His wife says that Thalasinos often wrote about radical Islam but was friendly with Farook). The argument discussed in the media may have occurred a couple weeks before the party and it is not clear whether the argument had rekindled shortly before the shooting. (One account has Farook telling Thalasinos that he “will never see Israel.”) However, it is clear that these two murderers were planning for terrorism based on the search of their home. A witness said that when Farook disappeared just before the photo session at the party, someone asked, “Where’s Syed?”
Second, both he and his wife Tashfeen Malik, 27, dropped off their 6-month-old girl with his mother Wednesday morning, claiming he had a doctor’s appointment. So these two were willing to abandon their baby in some pursuit of paradise — attaining glory through the slaughter of innocents.
Third, these were not strangers. Not only had these victims worked at Farook’s side, but they actually threw a baby shower for this couple who later slaughtered 14 people (and wounded 17).
Both were devout Muslims who appeared at the party (after Farook left) in dark tactical gear and masks with assault rifles and handguns. From their profiles, these two people would be viewed as well adjusted and well grounded in society. Farook actually called himself a “modern Muslim” on social media to distinguish himself from more traditional Muslims. On his dating profile before he met Malik he said that he was “living life to the fullest” and that he wanted a woman who was interested in “snow boarding, to go out and eat with friends, go camping, working on cars with me.” Indeed, Farook is quoted as telling his colleagues that Americans do not understand Islam and then proceeds to confirm that worst stereotype of Islam by critics.
Farook recently went to Saudi Arabia and may have been radicalized while in the Kingdom (a hotbed for extremism). He traveled to Saudi Arabia in 2013 to meet Malik’s family (who are from Pakistan), and then again in July 2014 to marry her. He would later be in contact with known terrorist figures according to police.
At their home, police say that they found an IED factory and 7,000 rounds of ammunition for assault rifles, 9-mm. handguns and .22-caliber rifles. So whatever the argument may have done, there was clearly planning for an attack if these accounts prove accurate. The argument may have triggered the massacre but the arsenal suggests that a massacre may have been in the works. What is clear is that both of these individuals were powder kegs before any argument with a co-worker.
The greatest question however remains the road to radicalism. We have seen this pattern before of men visiting Saudi Arabia or Syria and coming back radicalized and unstable.
Do the math. Disarming the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power. I think this actually appeals to the victim glorifiers. The best way to eliminate victimizers is to eliminate victims. Victims have a HUGE “advantage” when it comes to pure raw power which can be summarized by W.C. Fields. “Never give a sucker an even break.”
Tom Nash, They have been using the under reporting of murders in Chicago big time under Rahm. That police chief they just fired was Rahm’s errand boy in cooking the murder books. Chicago Magazine did a superb 2 part investigative piece. They focused on a few cases. One was a woman who was burned alive by drug dealers. It was changed from a murder to an “unknown cause” with the directive coming from the top.
No problem, Po. I noted to JT and Darren yesterday that postings/ replies were not being posted chronolically.
I think Bambam? was the one who explained that it was Tom Delay’s fault.
Sorry about the lack of editing on my comment. It’s early….
ninianpeckitt: You mention repeal of the Constitution/Magna Carta etc. You many enjoy this STABILITY POLICE FORCE FOR THE UNITED STATES report by The Rand Corporation. You’ll find many references that state “relief from THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT would be required”. I found references on page 75, 121, 139, 141, 142, 143 but there are many others. I found it difficult to find them all as searching on the term doesn’t bring them up currently.
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2009/RAND_MG819.pdf
“…. military options would be made stronger if provided relief from the Posse Comitatus Act.”
“The Posse Comitatus Act would prevent members of the MP SPF option from engaging in executive functions within the United States.”
“…unless it was given relief from the strictures of the Posse Comitatus Act.”
“These could be maintained if relief from the Posse Comitatus Act were provided..”
“Legal (issue) Some hurdles (Posse Comitatus relief)”
“the Posse Comitatus Act, prohibits military personnel from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States.22 Therefore, special legislation would have to be passed or congressional authority obtained in order for this to occur. ”
“Posse Comitatus originally included only the Army..”
“An MP SPF could not achieve the same benefit, without relief from the Posse Comi- tatus Act”
“If relief from Posse Comitatus were forthcoming, then the MPs could benefit from the advantages offered by this staffing option as well.”
” if relief from the Posse Comitatus Act could be provided, the MP hybrid option might perform better than the Marshals Service ”
Enough?? This is already in place. This is your option to a “well regulation militia”. This is the 2nd Amendment repealed. This is Marshall Law. This is the government armed to the teeth and the civilians disarmed. Feel better? I learned about this report on The Alex Jones Jones show and thought, “Nah, that can’t possibly be true.” Whoops!!!
@ Tom Nash You mention the manipulation of U.K. crime stats. Sounds like you’re one of the minority who educate themselves before forming an opinion as opposed to parroting the (usually wrong) opinion of the ignorant masses. You may enjoy this article by The Skeptical Libertarian on that subject:
By the Numbers: Is the UK really 5 times more violent than the US?
http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/01/12/fact-checking-ben-swann-is-the-uk-really-5-times-more-violent-than-the-us/
Daniel Bier’s article is illuminating and indicates the folly of drawing a conclusion first of all and then making the numbers fit the argument.
From a common sense perspective one can only say that is in a “gun free society” you are less likely to get shot.
The real problem is that there are those who will reject any and all arguments against guns regardless of the numbers in a society in which >50% of the population are not gun owners. Now this doesn’t mean that the “no gun owners group” is anti gun control; nor does it mean that the gun holders are “pro gun lobby / anti gUn control”. But it does mean that >50% of Americans have not evoked their constitutional right to bear arms within malitias.
The high murder rate in the United States is alaming; but what is more alarming is that Americans appear to accept this as normality. There is a certain amount of pigheadedness about this emotive issue by idividuals who have a complete inability to criticise the Founding Fathers and to admit that there is even the slightest possibility that they just may have got it wrong.
Well the high murder statistics indicate that America has got it wrong. But what is worse artificial obstructions to democratic are continuously being placed by minority groups who are denying the freedoms of their fellow citizens who like them have “rights” according to the American System.
This is why the American System doesn’t work, can’t work and has never worked in the creation of a society run by “We the People” and the American Dream has vanished like a phantom from the surface of the Earth.
Ninian……thanks for your response re the U.K. “no criming ” issue.
I discounted the possibility that you might have stopped this practice to perfect the U.K. ( before you left it).
If anyone is interested in how Great Britain manipulates its crime stats, google “NO CRIMING IN U.K.”
Tom Nash: Historically the British have demonstrated considerable expertise in political subterfuge and manipulation and falsification of data. One would like to think that this is becoming more difficult but on actual fact the ability of the public to understand is generally poor.
All I can say is the truth usually comes out in the end. I would like to see political statements linked up to statements of truth which would make public figures legally accountable for misleading parliament and the public. The same should apply to the Free Press which has forgotten the definition of truth, if they ever knew it in the first place. And we shouldn’t forget the lawyers who are the worst offenders of all !
Ninian….in the meantime, how do we even compare gun violence among different countries if the stats of some countries are unreliable?
Tom Nash: Maybe the wrong question is being asked?
Murder for example is a parameter which can be compared as a measure of violence. It is a definitive variable of universal significance that is difficult to manipulate. If you do this you find murder incidence in the United States is higher than in many other countries. It will therefore be argued that the right to bear arms is not making America a safer place. So if you are to carry guns it can’t be for that reason. It has to be because you want to carry a gun. Nothing else matters and the fact that you are more likely to kill yourself than a baddy is simply a matter of your own choice. But that is not what is happening. Others are getting shot as well and they have a right to survive. Your freedom to kill yourself is imparting on a fellow citizens right not to get shot. This is a huge problem in the United States and has been subjext to disruptive debate. But the bottom line is – if citizens don’t sort this out someone else will.
There is no use being free if you are shot dead at the age of 20yrs old.
Maybe the truth lies in the answer to which there is no question….
Ninian….as I previously explained, I’m not as pessimistic on the U.K.’s prospects.
I think there is some hope that your country might, at some point, join the ranks of
more advanced countries.
I even laid out the roadmap for that unfortunate country, just as you have generously told the U.S. what it must do.
Hildegarde:
“Posse comitatus is the common-law or statute law authority of a county sheriff, or other law officer, to conscript any able-bodied man to assist him in keeping the peace or to pursue and arrest a felon, similar to the concept of the “hue and cry”.
Originally found in English common law, it is generally obsolete; however, it survives in the United States, where it is the law enforcement equivalent of summoning the militia for military purposes”.
It’s all good stuff, Hildegarde, but what I didn’t know is that it appears that citizens may be impressed or press ganged into a posse? And far from being obsolete, if the US constitution requires the facility/liberty to set up a malitia, this appears to be a ready made system?
The only problem is if they press gang you into joining the wrong side….😨
This is not without precedent. The impressment or press ganging of American Nationals into the Royal Navy was a cause for the war of 1812. I am pleased to advise that American sailors distinguished themselves in the Royal Navy in Admiral Lord Nelson’s final and greatest victory at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805.
However I do disagree strongly with you about Power. Real Power lies in the ballot box and not in the barrel of a gun. America is yet to learn this lesson. But there again, she was born from the womb of a Coup D’Etat as a Republic and is still moving towards Democracy.
ninian: Well it’s looking like we should simply agree to disagree. You might be cheered to know that there’s a draft bill sitting in Congress just waiting for the “right event’ to push it forward; bringing back THE DRAFT. This time, of course, thanks to the anti-feminine Feminist agenda being pushed, WOMEN will most likely be included. Sounds like you would prefer that to being “press ganged into a posse.”
Hildegarde: I believe the ballot box is more powerful than the barrel of a gun. Myanmar is a good example of this.
I have not suggested that the US should accommodate Islam. I have suggested that American Muslims demonstrate allegance to the flag and that terror by US citizens on US soil may be treason.
I have explained how foreign policy strategies may reduce recruitment and enhance America’s image abroad.
And I’ve explained how failure is not an option.
ninian: I get it that you’re pro gun (people) control and nothing will change your mind. So from here on my responses to you are really just attempts to enlighten more open minded individuals. You mention the ballot box being “more powerful than the barrel of a gun”. This just in:
Brazil: Murder Rises, Congress to Reverse Gun Ban
https://www.therealstrategy.com/brazil-murder-rate-spikes-congress-decides-gun-ban-is-cause/
Perhaps they could have voted this problem away? Like in Mexico? We certainly wish it was that easy.
Ballot Box or Gun?
Hildegarde is absolutely right. It isn’t easy. If we look at the example the USA sets in politics, bumping off your Presidents and attempting to bump them offg seems to be a National Padside and offers an alternative to the expense of holding democratic elections. It would also appear that the CIA has been engaged with organised crime to try and bump off other leaders of sovereign States. So yes it is difficult – but not wrong if you believe in Freedom.
If only the ballot box and legal system worked but at this point it seems by and large that only civil disobedience seems to work and some of THAT is funded by nefarious organizations such as those headed by George Soros. I heard on my local not so favorite progressive liberal radio station that many Black Lives Matter protesters are waking up to the fact they’re being exploited to push an agenda that’s not in their best interests. It’s nice to think that the ballot box is that powerful but try telling that to people who live in a Banana Republic. You just haven’t figured out that that’s US.
In this article…the 2nd time today I’ve seen the term “press gang”.
San Bernardino Media Hoax: Faux FBI Crime Scene
http://www.zengardner.com/55719-2/
Hildegarde: you either believe in freedom or you don’t. I wouldn’t call the ISIS armed revolution Freedom and nor would anyone else. Whilst armed insurrection may topple a government it does not create a democracy. This can only be achieved through the ballot box. What happens in a banana republic doesn’t make it right or desirable and armed revolution only replaces an old despot with a new one.
ninian; I find it interesting that you equate people/gun control with freedom. I understand you’re from the U.K.? Well that explains a few things. I was raised in a VERY liberal household. Both my parents are feminists! They both voted for Obama twice and I am not allowed to say anything against the messiah, forced vaccinations, or gun control.
Strange that I’m getting replies to my comments via email but see none of them here. Curious!
BTW I agree that an armed revolution usually only replaces an old despot with a new one. Those who would overthrow governments are almost NEVER qualified to form new ones. Hence, one revolution after another throughout history. I don’t claim to have an easy answer to that one. The fundamental consciousness of people must be consciously changed/upgraded. That’s a one by one proposition and nothing that politics can solve. We need to regain or gain for the first time; our natural healthy humanity.
Hildegarde: I think you are thinking about these issues on a different level to many bloggers and this is refreshing.
An understanding of the infrastructure is required before any strategic plans can be formulated. And I think this is difficult to do if you have a leadership which invaded the wrong country looking for “the Most Wanted” and then bumping him off without a trial for his crimes. This isn’t the American way – until it is. Dont get me wrong. I understand the anger and why it was done. It’s hardly surprising though that youngsters then flock to join ISIS after this sort of thing happens to their “hero”.
Why does America make such howling errors in repwtative fashion with so much unshakable confidence? It is a “Let’s shoot first then ask questions later culture”
They went on to do it again in looking for “Weapons of Mass Deception” in Iraq. In the UK it is quite clear that the House of Commons was misled in order to backnowledge the US.
And what was the result? A dead Saddam and the rise of ISIS which was not checked at the beginning.
And now it’s Syria’s turn. More of the same thing with absolutely no insight. No insight at all.
There is so much confidence in sheer ignorance. It is almost something to admire.
On another note, about voting, my Irish mother used to tell me that in Ireland they “voted as many times as necessary to get their man in” 😨
America may yet decide to adopt the scandalous “no criming” U.K. method of under reporting of crimes.
Damn handy way to make the stats look better.
Ninian wrote that “The right to bear arms specifically applies to the keeping of a militia”.
The Supreme Court ruled otherwise in the Heller case (2008).
If you fail in your efforts to get the 2nd Amendment repealed, another option for you is to thake your case the SCOTUS and challenge that decision with your expertise in American constitutional law.
Or maybe you could revive your previous suggestion that a (non-existent) American national referendum be held on on gun control.
In my opinion the framers of the Constitution had in mind the raising of a militia — already personally armed — to (among other things) defend against an over-aggressive government. The rebellion they had just experienced involved raising a militia. I’m pretty sure they wanted to preserve the right of militias to rebel against the government.
ghsteel: that’s my reading of the second amendment. That arms are intended for a (national) militia do defend against anyone – not just an aggressive government. It was a way of raising an army quickly. Such concepts are somewhat anachronistic and the Constitution requires to be updated as the right to bear arms by citizens not in a malitia is clearly unconstitutional.
This illustrates that the current constitution and ammendments remains a flawed document which is regularly breached by the American Establishment and it’s citizens. And therein lies a route for gun control, if that’s what the majority of Americans want.
I would say as a non-expert and sekective Americanophile that it shouldn’t have to be me that points this out. I have heard so much rhetorical nonsense it is east to understand why the document was so badly written and why it is not enforceable.
Ninian….did you bother to look at the 2008 Heller decision?
If so, do you plan to correct SCOTUS?
Tom Nash:
I have.
It’s up to the American People to change the law if they don’t like it. There is a well known saying that “The Law’s an Ass”*
*From a play published by the English dramatist George Chapman in 1654 – Revenge for Honour:
“Ere he shall lose an eye for such a trifle… For doing deeds of nature! I’m ashamed. The law is such an ass”.
I don’t need to remind you that just 155 years ago, slavery was legal on the United States and 60 years ago this month Rosa Parks was arrested for not giving up her seat on a bus to a white man.
America continues to evolve and there isn’t anything you (or I) cab do to stop it – thank God.
For some reason, I’ve gained a far greater appreciation of the CHEERS patrons’ frustration with Cliff Clayborn.
Tom Nash – if it makes you feel any better, it is a play nobody reads and less produce, so it is famous only for a single quotable line.
The U.K. will continue to evolve, and there’s nothing that can be done to stop it.
As per the recommendations of the U.N. Human Rights Committee , their ridiculous monarchy will be abolished.
And they’ll get a written constitution, just like the more advanced nations. And the fudging on their crime statistics…known as “No Crimin”.. will cease.
Nothing can be done to stop the U.K.’s march into the modern world….thank God.
ninian – I have offered to teach you civics, I have asked you to buy a civics book or get a civics for dummies book. None of these offers have you taken.
There was never an idea to have a national militia. All militias were at the state level.
Ninian….there have been numerous attempts for several months to give you a basic understanding of the American Constitution, and the American political process.
Those attempts to educate you have obviously failed, since you believed from Day One that you were already an expert in these areas.
Since you knew it all, no amount of corrections or suggestions from anybody can help.
Now, back to your “change is possible” claims. I pointed out to you that there have been over 10,000 proposed constitutional amendments in U.S. history, and 27 amendments actually passed.
Half were passed in the first years of our republic, so there were c. 12-14 amendments passed in the last 200 years.
Your response…”So you see, change IS possible”.
Brilliant!
I don’t understand the point you are making. Change is possible. Your data confirms that this is true. It is built into your “system” such as it is… and this like Magna Carta will be updated and repealed. You really should be less arrogant. But people tend to get agitated when their position is threatened. Your constitution will be changed whether you personally like it on not – by “we the people” and not by some undemocratic gerrymandering electoral college. It will take time. But it will happen – if the United States survives in its current form. The way you are at each others throats it is clear the Civil War never really ended.
Macveighs lawyer had a hypothesis that state actors were involved in the OKC bombing. He had reasons to believe it. It would have made a huge difference if he would have got some solid proof. What nationals?
I can’t remember. Read the book. Not like anybody cares about that or what reAlly happened on 9-11 right? Who knows what kind of operation north woods stuff is in play all around us.
John Smith….my question remains the same….how would bringing up the question of additional co-conspirators at trial help to exonerate his client, Timothy McVeigh.
I understand that his theories could sell books years later, but from a legal perspective, I can’t see the logic in a defense attorney trying to provide evidence that there were other murderers involved.
“My client wasn’t the ONLY killer” seems to be a poor tactic.
Curiouser and curiouser bam bam!
2nd Update: mass shooting, San Bernardino & “training exercise”
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2015/12/02/2nd-update-mass-shooting-san-bernardino-training-exercise/
Here’s something for ya’ll to sink your teeth into:
Training exercises dovetail with mass shootings
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2015/11/21/training-exercises-dovetail-with-mass-shootings/
Breaking: mass shooting, San Bernardino, plus “training exercise”
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2015/12/02/breaking-mass-shooting-san-bernardino-plus-training-exercise/
“Every Time There Is a Terrorist Attack, What We Really Need to Do Is Demand that They CUT the Budgets of All the Intelligence Agencies”
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/12/top-nsa-whistleblower-every-time-terrorist-attack-really-need-demand-cut-budgets-intelligence-agencies.html
Barrack H. Obama: 2009-2015 (in 7th year) 162 mass murders
Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 18
And the NSA thwarted nary a ONE! What the Hell are they doing? Am I the only one here who thinks this is just a wee bit strange?
Who cares about your relation to the area at all? Has literally 0 impact on this case.
Dust Bunny Queen; “We do not believe you when you all say you want to ‘restrict and register’ guns. The game is to disarm and confiscate. ”
Well we may not agree on everything but we certainly do agree about this. It’s always refreshing to find someone AWAKE to the endgame. Hey, you might like that X22 Report video I posted. You could be the only one here that would actually watch it and THEN comment on it. 🙂
Nick …..the Saudis are becoming more lenient in their treatment of women who defy the driving ban.
The last two Saudi women to defy the ban were only jailed for 70 days.
Hildegard: there is no game in getting shot, unless you are a lion in the sights of a gun packing dentist. The right to bear arms specifically applies to the keeping of a malitia.
Which one are you in?
The police cannot protect us. We must protect ourselves.
Nick Spinelli: “We must protect ourselves…”
Well it doesn’t appear you are being very successful. More Americans shoot themselves than shoot the baddies…
Americans don’t live the dream, they live the myth.
Comprehenive Strategy is the one thing that will defeat the enemies of America and her allies. Not walking round the streets with pop guns.
You need to use your head not your heart to solve this problem.
Sadly that never appears to happen…. and it just goes on and on….
Maybe we should ask our resident Muslim. Does Allah allow a woman to drive as long as it’s to help in killing infidels, particularly Jews?
The FBI has already missed deadlines and wrongly allowed guns to be sold (against FBI regulations) that were later used to kill innocents. Did the FBI scum bag bureaucrat go to prison for negligence? No, he probably got promoted.
How about all the cases where an adult illegally allows a child access to a gun, which later kills the child and/or other innocents? Do they imprison the adult to make him an example for the next brain dead idiot that does the same thing? No, they ignore the law.
No thank you, I think there’s enough laws ignored today, and enough legal abuse of the system now by the oligarchs who run it. The law sure as hell does not apply to Hilary (email scandal, documents under subpoena that magically turned up on a WH bed after five years).
If you want to see how incompetent and counterproductive MANY attorneys can be, you must seek out the press conference held by the 2 attorneys representing the Farook family. They spoke in disjointed sentences. They used horrible metaphors like “smoking gun.” They tried to spin and blame the victims, saying some coworkers made fun of his beard! It would have been laughable if not so maddening. The reporters asking questions were equally incompetent. One attorney stated the wife was very conservative and did not drive. Well, SHE WAS DRIVING THE GETAWAY VEHICLE!
Unequivocally, this attack proves the abject inability of the NSA in fulfilling its stated goal to protect the Homeland.Proof: the female attacker publicly swore allegiance to ISIS, and then FBI let her perform these crimes?
How is the head of the NSA and the FBI not in prison now charged w/felony criminal negligence, or accessory to the crime? Just like 9-11, they’ll all get promotions, and after their handsome retirement get jobs on Feaux News, or run the World Bank.
These security departments should be immediately disbanded, as should the USA’s 500+ foreign military bases.
The USA should withdraw from MENA, abandon Israel and all the blood thirsty murderous MENA nations with which we are in bed, and let the Muslims work it out all out on their own. An apology to Islam for our military excursions there is in order, but that’s obviously asking too much.
Let Las Vegas make odds and take bets on the outcome over there.
Olly, you can start with background checks as a reasonable regulation, in order to determine if a gun buyer has a history of mental illness or criminal violence. The gun show loophole allows those individuals to gain access to firearms. Also, there needs to be better ways of tracking firearms as they change ownership. Too many weapons are being funneled into the hands of criminals by gun purchasers ostensibly exercising their Second Amendment rights. I would also place restrictions on the size of ammo clips.
Most States already have background checks and a waiting period to purchase the guns. Felony convictions and other infractions are already included in the background checks. Moot point.
Since there is no registry of people who have mental illness how do you propose checking that? IN addition, there have been challenges to that idea on the basis of violation of civil rights and the fact that mental illness is a pretty slippery definition. Some people want to declare those who disagree politically with the current powers or who doubt global warming as being mentally ill. Homosexuality was once declared a mental illness. How about transgender individuals…are they to be classified mentally ill? Women and men who were just a bit off or autistic were classified as mentally ill and institutionalized. Mental illness is a very very slippery thing indeed. Dangerous territory there.
The gun show loop hole is a fallacy. http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/facts-about-gun-shows
Despite what some media commentators have claimed, existing gun laws apply just as much to gun shows as they do to any other place where guns are sold. Since 1938, persons selling firearms have been required to obtain a federal firearms license. If a dealer sells a gun from a storefront, from a room in his home or from a table at a gun show, the rules are exactly the same: he can get authorization from the FBI for the sale only after the FBI runs its “instant” background check (which often takes days to complete). As a result, firearms are the most severely regulated consumer product in the United States — the only product for which FBI permission is required for every single sale. Most gun shows, for their own protections, only permit licensed dealers to be vendors. I agree with this and if not nationwide, that should be a law.
So bang another drum this one is getting worn out.
As to purchases between individuals falling under the table or being out of sight. Just how do you propose to stop this. How are you going to stop Julio from selling Juan a gun that he obtained illegally in a robbery? How are you going to stop Billy Bob from selling his shotgun to Bubba Joe down the street. Grandpa from giving his gun to the grandson.
In California, this is ALREADY illegal and as stated before, law abiding citizens will follow the law. In Ca if I want to sell my gun to you, we make an arrangement. I take my gun to a licensed gun dealer who then follows the appropriate background checks and paperwork and he then registers the transaction and facilitates the deal. That’s because I am a law abiding person and you are too.
How in God’s green Earth are you going to get people who don’t follow the law anyway to do do this. Criminals, felons, gang bangers, illegal aliens (who are already law breakers) They won’t and you will never EVER get them to follow the laws.
Until YOU can figure out how to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists without disenfranchising the law abiding citizen of the United States ……..you are just whistling Dixie through your nether parts.
We do not believe you when you all say you want to ‘restrict and register’ guns. The game is to disarm and confiscate.
No more no less. And did I mention we don’t trust or believe you.