We have been discussing the criminalization of Christmas celebrations by the Sultan of Brunei. Now, as if to show that Muslim extremists have no monopoly on crazy, Benzi Gopshtain (also reported as “Gopstein”), who heads the far-right Lehava organisation, has called for the same prohibition in Israel. Indeed, the statement of Gopstein and those of the Muslim clerics in Brunei seems almost indistinguishable.
The clerics insisted that “Some may think that [celebrating Christmas] is a frivolous matter and should not be brought up as an issue. But as Muslims and as a Zikir Nation, we must keep it (following other religions’ celebrations) away as it could affect our Islamic faith.”
They will get no argument from Gopshtain who said that Christians are “vampires” and “Christmas has no place in the Holy Land.” Gopshtain actually is more extreme than his Muslim counterparts who were willing to allow Christians to celebrate “in their communities.” (Though there is still a major difference from a wing nut like Gopshtain and the head of a country like the Sultan). Gopshtain insisted that such celebrations represent the “fall of the line of defence of the Jewish people for hundreds of years against our enemies, the Catholic Church.” He added “[t]he mission of those vampires and bloodsuckers remains. If Jews cannot be killed, they can be converted. We must remove the vampires before they drink our blood once again.”
Just in case you thought that this was a joke, Gopshtain has been repeatedly investigated for hate speech and there is a new call for such an investigation. Ironically, while Gopshtain is a hateful and grotesque person, I strongly disagree that such comments should be treated as criminal matters. In the free speech community, we are often faced with defending people with whom we disagree or people we despise. Yet, this is political and religious speech. Raw and hateful to be sure but it is still part of the debate over religious freedom. The solution to people like Gopshtain is more not less speech. It is not hard to expose his prejudice and intolerance. It is better for people like Gopstein to identify themselves and subject themselves to public ridicule than to force them underground.
The real debate should be over the public funding of extremist organizations by Israel. Gopshtain has been the public relations director of Hemla, which dedicates itself to “saving the daughters of Israel” from mixed marriages with Palestinian men. The state of Israel has supported the organization annually, public monies that have also supported Gopshtain.
Hana Levi-Julian……..Fresh and unique perspectives are always……well, mostly…..welcome here. If you do figure out “where to begin” and you have the time, your input would be appreciated.
In response to Islam not being compatible with Western cultures, perhaps Islam in Saudi Arabia and other perverse nations but the Islam that is predominant in Western nations seems to do alright. It is a fairy tale religion that in its extreme denigrates women but so does Judaism and Christianity. You don’t hear about any Christian sects where a woman can have more than one husband but not too long ago and still in some instances, a man may have many wives that all have to obey him. Most Christians, when they get married hear the old ‘obey’ your husband routine. Jews are notorious for the patriarchal structure of their extreme iterations. All religions in their extreme, where they deviate from Western secular culture and its hard won laws and rights, are perverse and despicable. The old devout Jew who creates havoc because he is placed next to a woman on a plane is nothing more than a deviate and pervert. The Muslim who suppresses his daughters and wives is down there with the lowest of the low. The devout Christian that causes the deaths of innocents by stirring up hatred, threatening to burn a koran is right down there in the pits with the other idiots that don’t have any idea where they are. This is a secular society where those who wish to practice their beliefs within the freedoms of this secular society are compatible and those that place their religious beliefs above our secular laws, are not compatible.
The main threat to our Western societies are those with the broad, ‘one size paints all’, brushes, like Bam-get a rope-Bam and her other cronies.
Well said, Isaac.
Is it fair to say that every society has its extremists? So in what culture are these extremists allowed to flourish? In what culture does the State actually prosecute these extreme ideologies as opposed to effectively govern in support of them?
Olly, the suspects who firebombed the sleeping Palestinian family, killing the mother, father and 18 months old? Not prosecuted.
Where is it that crimes against Palestinians are never sanctioned?
Po said “Why is it that crimes against Palestinians are NEVER sanctioned?” The two Israelis who kidnapped a Palestinian boy, and killed him by setting him on fire,
were caught, tried, and convicted.
They will soon be sentenced, but the latest news I saw indicted that an insanity plea might be considered in the case of one of the Israeli murderers.
As far as I know, the person(s) who firebombed the Palestinian home, killing the parents and the baby, were never caught.
I don’t know if the Palestians who kidnapped and murdered three Israeli youths, shortly before the burning and killing of the Palestian boy, were ever caught. The two convicted Israealis “justified” their murder as “retaliation” for the the deaths of the 3 Israelis.
Olly, since Tom is answering on my behalf, I’ll answer to his response.
All am saying is that there is a double standard. When an imam calls for extremist acts in a muslim country, the whole state is responsible. Yet when the rabbi (and there are A LOT of them) call for genocide on arabs, it is an isolated incident. Well, there is A WHOLE lot of those isolated incidents in Palestine, all of them justified and urged on religiously by rabbis affiliated with the state and supported by the sate.
Guess who urged the killing of Yitzhak Rabin? Yes a rabbi.
Tom said:
were caught, tried, and convicted. They will soon be sentenced, but the latest news I saw indicted that an insanity plea might be considered in the case of one of the Israeli murderers.
3 Israelis actually, Tom, the main culprit pleading insanity, which is widely seen as just another pretext to ensure another Israeli terrorist is not convicted. If you wonder why it is seen thusly, just google rate of conviction of Israeli crimes against Palestinians.
As for whether they will be convicted, based on history, we are willing to bet all of our money on that they will escape conviction, or will get a slap on the wrist.
As far as I know, the person(s) who firebombed the Palestinian home, killing the parents and the baby, were never caught.
Here is your answer. Looking forward to your justification for the following:
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“That was the day after Riham Dawabsha died of injuries from the horrific firebombing of her family home that killed her son, 18-month-old Ali Dawabsha, in the occupied West Bank village of Duma.
The boy’s father, Saad, died of his injuries in August, leaving Ali’s badly burned 4-year-old brother Ahmed as the sole survivor.
Israel’s conduct turned out to be depressingly predictable.
Haaretz reported today that, according to Israel’s defense minister Moshe Yaalon, “Israel’s defense establishment knows who is responsible for the arson attack that killed three members of a Palestinian family two months ago, but has chosen to prevent legal recourse in order to protect the identity of their sources.”
Yaalon made the remarks in a closed meeting of activists of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud Party.
The minister later confirmed to Haaretz that the Israeli defense establishment “believes they know who carried out the terrorist attack, but there is difficulty in putting them on trial. I hope that we’ll find the evidence necessary in order to bring the perpetrator [sic] of this heinous attack to justice.”
According to Haaretz, Yaalon “also noted that the perpetrators belong to a group of Jewish extremists that intended to increase tension in the West Bank. Therefore, said Ya’alon, the decision was made to put Jewish suspects in administrative detention, in order to prevent future attacks.”
Witnesses had seen the attackers flee to the nearby Israeli settlement of Maaleh Efraim after the Dawabsha home was set on fire.
Three Jewish settlers, Meir Ettinger, Mordechai Meyer and Eviatar Slonim, have been held without charge since the attack for allegedly plotting and carrying out other violent attacks against Palestinians. But it is unknown if any of them are among the suspects referred to by Yaalon.
Following the attack on the Dawabsha family and intense international condemnation, Netanyahu vowed to find the killers.
But he did not order the army to go on the sort of destructive rampage meted out against Palestinians after the June 2014 abduction and killing of three Israeli youths in the occupied West Bank.
In that case, Israel carried out the extrajudicial murders of two Palestinians it claimed were behind the abductions and the collective punishment of their families by destroying their homes.
Who are they protecting?
Yaalon’s reported excuse, that Israeli authorities had not announced the arrest of the suspects in the Dawabsha murders to “protect the identity of their sources,” makes little sense.
Why would “sources” who had helped apprehend alleged murderers need protection, and from whom? And why couldn’t Israel with its mighty army and all-knowing “security” services provide it?
If the “sources” are from Shin Bet, Israel’s internal spy agency, why could they not testify anonymously as they have frequently done against Palestinians? And even if Israel is worried about their identities being exposed, why is that more important than the lives of Palestinians?
Yaalon’s revelation looks like yet another example of the systematic impunity Israeli soldiers and settlers are granted for attacks on Palestinians.
It would also not be the first time settlers have gotten away with burning Palestinians alive.
The settlers, just like the army, are an extension of the Israeli settler-colonial state that always protects its own and that glorifies the terrorists and ethnic cleansers who established it.
I don’t know if the Palestians who kidnapped and murdered three Israeli youths, shortly before the burning and killing of the Palestian boy, were ever caught. The two convicted Israealis “justified” their murder as “retaliation” for the the deaths of the 3 Israelis.
That was answered in the above, Tom.
Jonathan Turley uses an old lawyers trick to try to persuade readers that there is some sort of equivalency between what certain Muslims are doing with what certain Israelis are doing. However, when you examine the facts and circumstances of each case, JT’s purported equivalency evaporates.
JT neglects to mention some critical differences in his broad brush comparison. The most important of these differences is that this week Israel arrested Benzi Gopshtain, along with nine others. (JT refers to Gopshtain as Gopstein.) According to a police statement, the arrests came after a complex and extensive undercover investigation into the activities of Lehava, which has acted to prevent not only intermarriage, but also general coexistence between Jews and Arabs in Israel. Gopshtain and the others are suspected of inciting to violence and acts of terror motivated by racism. Additionally, three young Lehava members were formally charged this week for an arson and vandalism attack last month on Jerusalem’s Max Rayne Hand in Hand bilingual (Hebrew-Arabic) School, after having confessed to committing the crime during questioning.
Okay, now let’s look at official Muslim responses to the Sultan of Brunei’s call for the criminalization of Christmas celebrations. . . . . Hmmm, there doesn’t seem to be any of note. But let’s not let the facts get in the way of conveying a false moral equivalency. History tells us that if you keep repeating a lie, many will come to believe it.
“But let’s not let the facts get in the way of conveying a false moral equivalency. History tells us that if you keep repeating a lie, many will come to believe it.”
Ralph, couldn’t agree more!
Judaism and Islam are very similar in many ways. Look at handwritten Hebrew. It looks very much like handwritten Arabic. Eloh and Allah are similar spelling for the same god. Christianity, while filled with destructive guidance, is a much kinder religion than Islam and Judaism.
Po is laughable. So weak and in over his head, he must resort to using the comments of others to insert his twisted ideology. Too bad it fails–,poor, poor po. But, again, I have a feeling that he fails at many things.
Yep, coming from same bam who attacks one group the next then calls foul when the log in his eye is mentioned!
So clueless it is fascinating!
My ability to form cogent arguments is light years beyond yours…what are you gonna quote Daniel greenbeans and Robert Spencer next?
At least I am not as bad as the other guy does not make you good, it makes you subjectively not as bad
Just this weekend a Jewish family was complaining about how oppressive Christianity is. Their evidence: their son’s school has some sort of Christian themed charity group but nothing Jewish themed. Before complaining I think they should at least scout out a few Christ-killer accusations.
Po’s ability to write and form a cogent argument is so weak that he must resort to taking my comments and substituting his own words to produce a myriad of lies. Typical.
The difference JT, as much as you try your best to obscure or obfuscate it it, is that someone like this individual is scoffed at, ridiculed and, for the most part, ignored. His comments go no where, and the State of Israel remains a bastion of freedom for all religions in that festering hell hole known as the Middle East. His comments are marginalized and not taken seriously, as opposed to being converted into widespread policy and behavior, where wholesale slaughter of any and all infidels is the norm in Muslim societies around the world. I know that you know that, but you want to be very PC and include some fruit loop rabbi into the mix to show some semblance of moral equivalency. Therein, JT, lies the rub. The Israeli government fiercely protects and defends the religious sites of all religions, where Muslim societies proudly destroy and close churches, synagogues, etc., around the globe. What part of that don’t you get, or, shall I say, what part of that are you pretending to not get? Your other thread pertained to the Sultan of Brunei, and his statements, on the other hand, ARE THE LAW THE LAW OF THE LAND. THOSE STATEMENTS ACTUALLY HAVE AN IMPACT AND AFFECT LIVES. This rabbi, on the other hand, has no power, no authority. He has not created law or impacted any lives. Go visit a mental institution; you’ll hear all kinds of crazy and bizarre statements there, as well. I can only assume that your legal arguments make more sense.
hahahaha….bam is dishing it out but can’t take it!
Precious!
bam bam
1, December 22, 2015 at 1:05 am
Perhaps one day JT will grasp the notion that this is not extremism and will cease from declaring this behavior as such as it pertains to the treatment of those who are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc., and unlucky enough to find themselves stuck in Israel. Perhaps, just perhaps. By definition, extremism would showcase events, occurrences, beliefs, behaviors, etc., which are uncommon, rare and unacceptable throughout Israel and unsupported by Jewish texts. The reality is just the opposite, where barbaric behavior finds justification in religious texts and unequal and exceptionally harsh treatment of all goyim in Israel is rampant. The term EXTREMISM may the PC term at the moment, but words have meaning, JT, and the regularity with which the barbarity occurs takes it out of the realm of being extreme. The word EXTREMISM should instead be replaced with the term COMMONPLACE OCCURRENCES. A quick study of what is transpiring with regard to Christians, for example, in (a) place like Israel, gives one a clue as to what a Christian faces within a Israel, where entire Christian communities, which have existed since the time of Christ, have been decimated. 20/20, in a program that aired on Friday night, devoted an entire hour to Palestinian Christian facing persecution. They are targets because of a very simple fact: they are Christians and Israelis cannot live in peace with their neighbors.
I don’t even know where to begin, there are so many blatant inaccuracies about Israel and Judaism here from those who have never lived there, and who have never studied Judaism in the original texts in Hebrew… wow. Folks, suffice to say your premises are, as one would expect, likely based on culture …
Let’s compare that to this:
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Ross S. Heckmann
1, December 22, 2015 at 3:26 am
Meanwhile, in Bosnia, the Muslims, who view Jesus as a prophet, have added Jesus’ birthday to their religious calendar. “The Bosnian takvim [Muslim religious calendar] now includes the Orthodox Christmas, on January 7, designated as “Milad Isa, a.s.” or “Sacred Birthday of Jesus, Peace Be Upon Him.” . . . Throughout Islamic history, traditional Muslims have been encouraged to offer their non-Muslim neighbors greetings on their holy days. In the Balkans, Muslims and Christians alike mention often that they celebrate each other’s religious festivals, especially Christmas and Ramazan Bajram, the latter a three-day feast to conclude the fasting month of Ramazan (or Ramadan).
“By including both the birthday of Muhammad, which begins on the evening of January 2, and that of Jesus, on January 7, in their calendar, the Bosnian Muslims have demonstrated their appreciation for the common Abrahamic tradition. In addition, by adopting the Orthodox Christian holiday in remembrance of Jesus, they have demonstrated goodwill toward their Serbian neighbors. In this month, when the two birthdays nearly coincide, and when news about Islam often seems undiluted in its tragedy, the generous action of the Bosnian Muslims is worthy of praise.” http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2015/01/bosnian-muslims-celebrate-an-islamic-christmas
Compare these comments when the culprit is a muslim versus when it is a Jew:
Yep, from the same ones:
KCFleming
1, December 22, 2015 at 9:07 am
“Since religious references of any kind tend to stir up anger, hostility, and vengeance”
False premise.
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Nick Spinelli
1, December 22, 2015 at 7:48 am
Good comment bam. Most people have come to realize Islam is incompatible w/ Western values. Liberals would be the first ones killed in a caliphate, but they are the ones who appease. If you want to understand people and history one must appreciate irony.
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bam bam
1, December 22, 2015 at 1:05 am
Perhaps one day JT will grasp the notion that this is not extremism and will cease from declaring this behavior as such as it pertains to the treatment of those who are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc., and unlucky enough to find themselves stuck in Israel. Perhaps, just perhaps. By definition, extremism would showcase events, occurrences, beliefs, behaviors, etc., which are uncommon, rare and unacceptable throughout Israel and unsupported by Jewish texts. The reality is just the opposite, where barbaric behavior finds justification in religious texts and unequal and exceptionally harsh treatment of all goyim in Israel is rampant. The term EXTREMISM may the PC term at the moment, but words have meaning, JT, and the regularity with which the barbarity occurs takes it out of the realm of being extreme. The word EXTREMISM should instead be replaced with the term COMMONPLACE OCCURRENCES. A quick study of what is transpiring with regard to Christians, for example, in (a) place like Israel, gives one a clue as to what a Christian faces within a Israel, where entire Christian communities, which have existed since the time of Christ, have been decimated. 20/20, in a program that aired on Friday night, devoted an entire hour to Palestinian Christian facing persecution. They are targets because of a very simple fact: they are Christians and Israelis cannot live in peace with their neighbors.
Fanatics used to be condemned and ignored now they’d are fawned ove and often rewarded for their fanaticism. Maybe this guy thinks he’s the Sultan of Burnei? Luckily for people in Israel Christians are going to get rounded up and charged with blasphemy as they might in Saudi Arabia (source of fanatical “love”) or elsewhere.
Truth and traditions, Christmas pagan roots of Babylon
A verse from the holiest of all Judaic holy books, The Talmud (AKA “The Torah;” Judaism has two Torah and this is one of them): “Pantera (Jesus), son of the whore Mary, boils in excrement for eternity.”
For a time, the Pope banned The Talmud for its extreme, bigoted, violent, and virulent hate speech such as above. To appease the Pope, the Rabbis masked their disgust for Jesus by masking his name. In the above case, they mask Jesus’ name by replacing it w/Pantera, the alleged name of the Roman Centurion who allegedly fathered Jesus w/the alleged whore Mary.
Walk by a Christian Church anywhere in NYC. Notice the extreme quantity of human spittle on the sidewalk IFO of it, deposited by Judaics passing the Church, unless it had recently been cleaned.
The Rabbis invented the yamaka to mock the male Christian’s practice of removing his hat upon entering the Church.
Judaism is a pagan Babylonian mystery religion mixed w/the “Traditions of the elders” (Pharisees) about whom Jesus cursed in the New Testament.
Rabbis and Judaics consider the OT a book of mysterious poetry only rightly interpreted by the Rabbis. Rabbis and Judaics place infinitely more religious value on the Talmud vs. the OT.
The difference is that this demand will go nowhere in Israel, whereas Christians are routinely murdered by Muslims.
Religion is adorable.
Create your own site then, Nick, rather than whine on another’s.
Try to stay on point, Nick. Skip the ad hominem.
JT can be obsessive. It’s religion of late.