Saudi Arabia’s Grand Mufti Declares Chess UnIslamic

220px-Lewis_Chessmen_OverviewWe have previously discussed the wacky views of Saudi Arabia’s Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh like declaring that Twitter is “the source of all evil and devastation.” Now the grand mufti has ruled that chess is forbidden in Islam even though Arabs helped spread chess around the world after conquering Persia in the Seventh Century. Yet, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, Iraq’s supreme Shia religious authority, has previously issued rulings forbidding chess. Likewise, after the 1979 revolution in Iran, chess was declared haram, or forbidden.

At first I was not sure if it was the role of a powerful “bishop” or the mixing of genders with the Queen intermingling with knights and other non-family members.  It turns out that the grand mufti believes that chess can encourage gambling and is a waste of time. That is appears is enough to declare it an affront to Islam.

Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh appears to play a pretty hard core version of the game. He insisted that chess is “a cause for hatred and enmity between players.” I am not sure how chess differs from any competitive sport. However, he declared that chess runs afoul of the Qur’an’s ban on “intoxicants, gambling, idolatry and divination”.

Given his position in Saudi Arabia, the announcement could have a substantial impact on chess players in the Kingdom — an association that has existed for centuries. Most people would view declaring a game like chess as anti-Islamic to be rather unhinged but the grand mufti is not just some guy raving about chess in the subway. These declarations are expected to be followed by faithful Muslims regardless of the absurdity of the suggestion. Of course, given the rise of online gambling in Saudi Arabia, there appears to be many Muslims who do not hold with such fatwas against fun.

Source: Guardian

108 thoughts on “Saudi Arabia’s Grand Mufti Declares Chess UnIslamic

  1. Feelings of inadequacy often cause such behavior. It’s like taking your baseball and going home. Useful only when it’s the only base ball and ridiculous when it’ one of millions. Methinks the Mullet is a touch more politician than he would have us believe but doesn’t have the panache to carry it off.

  2. Perhaps the many chess pieces– especially the more alluring ones, with heads–are simply too distracting, since they tempt those engaged in the game to behead those pieces belonging to the opponent?

  3. The game of chess reminds the minions of just who they are. They are the pawns in the front row. The Mullah is the King in the back protected by the pawns. So the big cheese guys in Islam do not want their minions to play a game which shows the relationship of King, Queen, Bishop, Rook, and pawns. Checkmate.

  4. “These declarations are expected to be followed by faithful Muslims regardless of the absurdity of the suggestion.”
    —————————-
    Nope! Just go on twitter for the next few days and you’ll see exactly how much faithful Muslims listen to the grand mufti. A hashtag will make the rounds making fun of this exact fatwa.
    The only pressure on Muslims is upon the ones living in S. Arabia who might be forced t take the game underground.
    As for the remaining 99% of Muslims worldwide, 90% would not even know about this fatwa. I did not know about it until today.
    If one really wants to know how independent thinkers Muslims, are, go on any islamic website, 10 people, 12 opinions.

  5. well let me be more clear…this mufti is ruining the perception of Islam. You can’t really ruin a faith, only distort the image of it to unsuspecting minds. But true Muslims knows he is making stuff up. If you have any questions about Islam, email me by going to by blog and I will be happy to enlighten you. Thanks for sharing….it’s quite entertaining.

  6. And i am suppose to welcome them with open arms. While ME MO for the last thousand years has been ” immigrate”….sorry i am voting for the guy demanding borders…..and if he doesn’t straight away….the anger replaces congress. Too. And if that congress doesnt we got two things over our shoulders..
    A purse or an an ar15.. But by trump neither of the two are needed in the next five years.

  7. Chess demands training, concentration, and strategy. Religious authoritarians shun those values unless they are used strictly for dogmatic purposes.

    Dogma not only blinds its protagonist, but it muzzles all other opposition.
    Maajid Nawaz

  8. He must hate the rule that once you lift a piece from the board you must move it. Moreover, there is an unveiled woman on the board which has more power than her hubby.

  9. I would like to declare belief in a diety an affront to humanity. It diminishes the accomplishments of man and stands in the way of true peace and progress. It muddles the minds of believers into taking as fact things that can not be true. It enslaves people to the power and whim of a few who declare themselves to be the mouthpiece of god. Free your mind; dump god!

  10. This guy is perfect for the role of a religious nut case in a James Bond spoof. He couldn’t be in a straight up Bond movie because he is simply too far gone. The only place for this guy is in a comedy. Unfortunately Saudi Arabia is a tragedy.

    Or, Chess is a facsimile of war. It allows anyone to own the act of war in a peaceful manner. Ya can’t have any of that in a serious religion, country, kingdom, dictatorship, tribe, cave, etc. Next they will wanting to have opinions, interpret stuff on their own, seeing through the dark glass clearly, whoa.

  11. Many times on this blog when there is a discussion of Islam or Florida some person will employ the term “dogma”. That happens to be the name of a female (bitch) dog in our dogpac who happens to be a mother of ten litters of puppies over the years. Her name is Dogma with a capital D. She is a ma or a mother. She is not Islamic. She is not from Florida like Jeb, Rubio, or others.

    To characterize some notion or philosophy as dogmatic or as dogma is a stretch. All religions are horse itShay but I do not want to offend horses in the race and I employ Pig Latin so as to not offend. So, if you are Christian, Jew, Muslim, or whatever, then you are full of horse itShay. There is no dog in the race. Dogs are not in the human race.

  12. Ten Reasons Why Muhammad Was a False Prophet?

    Tuesday, 04 September 2012 01:20 by Imran Firasat

    There are way too many reason to nullify Muhammad’s claim of being a prophet of God. Here are 10 reasons:

    1.No extraordinary natural signs before birth of Muhammad, or predictions from past religious characters about arrival of Muhammad to save the world.
    2.Islam did not exist at the time Muhammad was born. He was born to an idolater family and that’s what he followed all his childhood and teenage. That means, Muhammad, born as a Qafir (Infidel), spent 70% of his life as a proud infidel before he invented Islam.
    3.His first marriage was with a Jewish woman and not with any Muslimah. So, which religious rites were followed at his marriage ceremony with a Jewish woman if Islam wasn’t yet born? Certainly, a Jewish style marriage ceremony! Even the Quran doesn’t mention anything about the Islamic ceremony of Prophet Muhammad’s first marriage. That simply shows that even Muhammad didn’t have any idea of the existence of Islam or his prophecy.
    4.If Muhammad was an adorable prophet sent by Allah, then why didn’t he reveal the truth about Islam, when he was a child or when he got young? Why did he waste 40 years of his life as a non-Muslim idolater? If his purpose of coming in this world was only to reveal Islam and preach it to people, then why he had to wait until more than half of his life, living like a common man and practicing idol-worship?
    5.Almost all the rituals and rules of Islam mentioned in the Quran are copied from Judaism, which shows how deeply Muhammad was inspired by Judaism and attracted towards the Torah. So, he found copying and pasting from the Torah into his Quran was the easiest way to invent a new religion.
    6.Muhammad spread Islam on the point of the sword and not with love and preaching. His strategy was to rule at any price.
    7.Muhammad killed poor, innocent and helpless people, which can’t be justified in any sense as act of a holy prophet.
    8.How to call Muhammad a holy prophet, when he sexually abused uncountable number of women, including sometimes ridiculously shamefully, like his marriage with minor Aisha and his own daughter-in-law Zainab. That proves that Muhammad was just another powerful dictator, who knew very well how to take advantage of his power and abuse everyone, anywhere and in any way.
    9.Muhammad never performed any miracle, which is expected of a prophet. Instead of helping the suffering people, he used to destroy well-settled, peaceful communities, capturing their lands and making the captured children and women slave.
    10.In his life, Muhammad did immense harm to humanity but that was not enough for his satanic mind. So, before dying, he left the messages of Jihad to his followers for conquering the whole world, all of humanity, in the name of Islam, which continues causing great sufferings to our lives to this day. Wouldn’t a true prophet sacrifice his own life for his people, instead of destroying lives on every flimsy excuses? It shows that Muhammad was not a prophet – neither in life nor in death.

    It is hard to find a holy personality in other religions, who committed atrocious crimes like those of Muhammad. Let’s have a look at some other famous religious characters from history:

    Jesus Christ: He didn’t initiate any war, never killed innocent people, and didn’t abuse women like Muhammad. He has not left any question mark on his character before leaving this world.

    Budha: A man who left his home, luxury life and all the advantages he could have because of his rich background, just because he was really looking for truth and peace and make them reach to the humanity, which he did without putting sword on anyone’s neck. That’s like a truly holy personality.

    Ram: Even in Hinduism, Rama, the god of the idol-worshipping Hindus was a much better example than Muhammad, who spent many years of his life in jungles, leaving behind his entire luxurious kingdom. He engaged in some war, but on valid excuses. He never killed or tortured poor people on flimsy excuses as did Muhammad. He never forced someone to embrace Hinduism.

    I am not justifying that any of the religions mentioned above is true, but all I want to say is that in comparison to Muhammad, those religious personalities stand higher in esteem and cleaner in character.

    On the other hand, evil Muhammad did all kinds of things what civilized humanity and laws deem as criminal and barbaric. Wouldn’t you now say that Muhammad was a bloody prophet? Oh, come on! Come out of the illusion, accept the reality and be practical. A man, who cunningly declared himself a prophet, fooled the world by copying and pasting from the Torah to create his own holy book, the “Quran”, can’t be a prophet. A man, who never gave life to someone but snatched lives of innocent people, can’t be holy, can he? A man, who before leaving this world, has left so much pain, turbulence and destruction, can not be a God-sent prophet, can he?

    Muhammad by his own actions has left a giant “question mark” on his character because of which he will never ever be accepted as a holy prophet by sane, educated, people, brave enough to call dirty what is dirty.

    Muhammad: you are on curse of many widows, orphan children and helpless parents who got their loving children becoming victims of your cunning desires. Shame on you the blood-thirsty self-claimed prophet of no God.

    http://www.islam-watch.org/authors/151-firasat/1132-ten-reasons-why-muhammad-was-a-false-prophet.html

  13. Challenge to Muslims: Answer These Questions or I Will Apostatize

    by Potential Apostate

    06 May, 2009

    From faithfreedom.org:

    Dear Ali Sina, you have a fan here, who thinks quite like you, or if I may say, exactly like you. This fan is me, someone who has talked to you before, but was unwilling to disclose it, because at that time I was a devout Muslim and now I am out of it.

    I am pleased to talk to you again, but this time I am on your side (pretty much). I have a very unique idea. This has never happened on faithfreedom.org. Without further ado, I would like to challenge all the Muslims, who use the Internet to try to answer simple questions [I have] given below or I will apostatize. This could only happened on your site, believe me.

    Kindly read my email below very carefully and please publish this email as one of your articles in your website. Thanks so much for opening my eyes wider. If I don’t get sensible replies from Muslims within one month, I will declare my apostasy. This article below is a challenge for all those, who think they can convince me not to leave Islam.

    For Faithfreedom.org:
    ———————
    From Nothing But Truth,

    Mr. Sina, it has been two years I have been reading your articles, debates and satires on your site. I used to reject what you said about Muhammad and Allah; but every time I read a new article on your site, I felt enormous pressure on my shoulders about how I can prove you wrong. I tried and tried and failed in my own mind. I can’t even imagine writing to you and writing about Muhammad and Allah in the words below, because this is something I could have never done.

    Below are the questions that disturbed me and no one offered a sensible answer. Even Islamic sites filtered my questions and emailing them turned futile. Through your site, I would like to have answers of the following questions from Muslims, as they have closed all doors for debate and discussions. Face to face conversation is like a suicide. Please allow me to ask these questions from the medium of your site. All Muslims are welcome to leave comments below or email me at nothing.buttruth@yahoo.com. Here’re my questions to Muslims:

    Q1. Why would God want his creation to not ask, questions, criticize, debate or experiment ideas that he gave us? This can only happen to cover up lies. This is the reason why we can’t question clergy about things like What’s the proof that God exists and what’s the proof that Muhammad is the prophet of God. Seems like a great deceit to make sheep out of humans. Only truth can stand the fierce scrutiny and criticism and still stand tall.

    Q2. Why would God make religions appear only in poor, illiterate and desert areas? 1400 years ago, Greek were more scientific and progressive, why religion didn’t appear there instead? I tell you why. Because Muhammad could have only mislead the gullible, ignorant and poor people. In fact, his first followers were actually poor. Rich and literate people thought of him as crazy. Even today, if I go to a illiterate village and proclaim myself as a big saint, millions will follow me. That’s how easy it is to make stupid people more stupid. That’s why you don’t see new religions forming in Europe.

    Q3. If there is Science in Islam, why didn’t God tell us how old the Universe is, how old Earth is, whether it is round or flat, how long it took for it to cool down, how Life began, how Life evolved? It seems that Allah knew only things that were already known at that time by the Greek and ancient scientists and philosophers. If I start a religion today, I wouldn’t forget to add an ayat, “And thou will not spread mischief in the earth which took us fifteen billion years to make. There are altogether eleven dimensions, yet the unbelievers deny our signs.” Ridiculous!

    Q4. Why Abrahamic religions, specifically Islam is exclusivist? How can a truth be confined to some people and not others (people living in other places, other times etc. can’t be all wrong). Buddhism on the other hand is not exclusivist like Islam. Buddha even said don’t believe me, don’t believe your holy books, don’t believe what people say, but believe only what’s true to your heart and mind, because truth can only come from inside, not outside (outside = scriptures, prophets, gods).

    Q5. Why would God care about whether people believe in him or not? The creator of the universes and each and every atom in them, can’t be so narrow minded, arrogant or stupid. Because arrogance means ‘covering up negative feelings about self’ and genuine God would rather be full of self-esteem than arrogance. God’s name being ‘Al-Mutakab-bir’ is beyond me.

    Q6. Why would God choose a mass murderer, rapist, blasphemer, pedophile, madman and power and sex hungry person as his prophet? Marriage with 9 year old Aisha, Marriage with his daughter-in-law Zainab, Marriage with Javairah, his slave after killing his father, husband and brother the same day, killing others just because they don’t believed him, killing someone if they change their religion, killing without reason, spreading Islam not with discussion, logic or spirituality but with murder and war is beyond me.

    Q7. Ali Sina says that Muhammad was a mentally sick person or what you call a narcissist having temporal lobe epilepsy. I watched a video on ‘Temporal Lobe Epilepsy’ on YouTube. It is a BBC documentary and the way it describes about the experiences of people with sensitive temporal lobe resembles exactly how Muhammad acted when he used to get revelations, sweating, feeling guilty and sad, feeling that he’ll go mad and that sort of thing. Furthermore, why an angle would make him feel so demonic and depressed is beyond me? Aren’t we humans supposed to experience something enlightening, happy and peaceful when such alleged experiences take place?

    Q8. Why shouldn’t we accept for others, laws and morals we deem perfect for ourselves. That’s the only measure of truth. If I speak truth, do good, be gentle, I would want the same to happen to all people. Following this logic, if a Muslim who becomes a Hindu should be killed, shouldn’t we teach these great laws to all other religions. Shouldn’t Hindus, Christians and Jews also kill people who become Muslims? Why not? If what we regard as moral and as truth, shouldn’t that be true to all others?

    Q9. It seems that Muhammad was not a nice man, I couldn’t find a single act of kindness from this person in the whole of Islam’s history. The only two stories of kindness were the story of Jew lady who used to throw garbage at prophet and he, at the time of her death came to visit her. And another incident about a young man who used to eat too much sugar and her mother requested Muhammad to ask him to stop it. He didn’t ask him to stop anything but later asked him to stop eating too much sugar because this time around he himself stopped eating too much sugar. Both of these stories are fables and are not found in Quran, Hadiths or the complete Islamic History. If I am wrong, find me any ayat or hadith matching these stories. I will not become apostate if you can tell me a single incident of kindness ever done by Muhammad. Remember, you can’t tell me about what Muhammad said to his followers about how to conduct life and be kind etc. I want his own personal acts of kindness only. Any Schmuck can ask others to do good and himself do otherwise.

    Q10. Why a person who is religious is more prone to absurdities and away from reality of life? Why an educated person is less likely to be religious? Doesn’t that mean that religion is for the gullible, weak and immature? Why was Einstein, the most intelligent person who walked on earth was not religious. If it didn’t worked for him (most intelligent) How can you claim that you know better? If he worked it out without religion, why it won’t work for you?

    Q11. If God created us and sent Adam from Heaven to Earth, why are there fossils found for all early primates that were neither chimp nor humans? Checkout this link. What does God created something actually mean? Wherever science looks, it finds some process involved, no magic! Is God subjugated to natural laws? In our present lives we don’t see magic happening, no waters parted, no virgin births, no moons being cut and no back to the future Miraj happening. Humans have always attributed magical thinking to past and future events to make a sense of the world they live in. In other words, ‘I didn’t see it happen therefore magic man did it!’ Doesn’t it make sense?

    Q12. If we have souls and are either to go to heaven or hell, why don’t animals have souls? Since we’ve evolved from animals, and early humans like homo erectus or homo habilis were intelligent too (slightly lower than us) would they also be judged on the judgment day? If not, why not? They didn’t have any prophets too, because their brains didn’t think in malignant ways like us. We are more clever. Doesn’t that prove that the more clever we get the more potential we have to become notorious and the most likely it is for a God to appear out of no where? (God didn’t made us in his own image, we made God in our own image).

    Q13. Buddhists are more moral than Muslims. They won’t burn embassies, temples and churches to prove they are true. They don’t believe in a God. Does it not mean that morality doesn’t depend upon God or absolute laws but inner resolve and commitment? Only immature and morally bankrupt people need fear of hell or greed of heaven to be moral.

    Q14. If Quran is the Guidance from God, why can it be shaped in any way of thinking imaginable? A book of guidance from God should be straight forward and objective rather than being subjective and full of discrepancies. But it seems our Omniscient God thinks like humans and learns via trial and error.

    Q15. If the only reason one should stick to religion is because of the uncertainties of the afterlife, what if it turned out that, there in fact is a God who tested us all to see whether we become fools at the hands of authority, religion and society or discover the truth and reality of life. All those who allow themselves to become fools may end up in hell and all those who turn to truth and reality are given heaven. Doesn’t it seem more rational for a thinking person to assume, by observing all the multitudes of religions in the world than to follow Islam?

    If no Muslim can answer my questions above within one month, I would consider all my accusations along with my questions as true and would proclaim my apostasy (Period).

    Peace!

    Nothing But Truth.

    http://www.islam-watch.org/LeavingIslam/Challenge-to-Muslims-Answer-These-Questions-or-I-Will-Apostatize.htm

  14. RWL

    Well one thing that provides some hope is that for the large part, you are preaching, here, to the choir. Islam is that very religion that was referred to as the opiate of the masses. It is, unfortunately, a most effective drug.

  15. What’s sad is this lunatic actually holds power and influence over millions of Muslims in Saudi Arabia. It’s true, he’s not just some guy on a subway. Extremism is the norm, not the exception, in the ME. Every Muslim theocracy in the ME has their own brand of extremism, but it’s all pretty extreme and intolerant compared with our Western values.

    Sad, because the region was renowned for its learning in antiquity.

  16. From the Islam Watch website:

    About Us:

    Who are we?

    We are a group of Muslim apostates, who have left Islam out of our own conviction when we discovered that Islam is not a religion at all. Most of us took a prolonged period of time to study, evaluate and contemplate on Islam, the religion of our birth. Having meticulously scrutinized Islam, we concluded that it is not a religion of peace at all, as touted by smooth-talking, self-serving Muslims and their apologists from non-Muslim backgrounds. The core of Islam—namely the Qur’an, Hadis and Sharia—is filled with unbounded hatred of the unbelievers, unbelievably intolerant toward them, and extremely cruel and merciless to those Muslims, who dare to deviate from its doctrines.

    We also realized that Islam is beyond reformation, because Muslims—who attempt to modernize and reform its unremitting bigotry, irrational rituals, and cruel and draconian punitive measures—are targeted for annihilation. Our verdict was that the only way to escape from the tyranny of Islam is to leave it altogether. We have, therefore, discarded Islam from our life, so that we can be free to enjoy a normal, pleasant and humane life in complete harmony with all peoples on earth, irrespective of their religion, race or creed.

    Having thoroughly understood—through our meticulous investigation of Islam for years to decades—that Islam was nothing but a lie, most of us have left Islam silently, because of the mortal threats of Islam on our life. As Islamic terrorism and violence overwhelms the world, particularly in the post-9/11 years, we also felt that it’s a responsibility upon us to make world’s 1.4+ billion Muslims aware of the falsity of their religion and its cruel nature, so that they can make informed choices and leave Islam to live with love, respect and harmony with the rest of humanity.

    We also felt it incumbent upon us to make the non-Muslim world aware of the reality of Islam, and undertake timely precautionary measures against this religion of terror, hatred and mayhem. We tell the world that the ongoing terrorism, unleashed by Islamic militants, is not an aberration from the so-called ‘peaceful religion of Islam’; instead, it is the real Islam preached and practiced by its founder, Prophet Muhammad. A thorough study of the Qur’an and prophetic tradition (Hadith, Sunnah) makes that obvious.

    We, therefore, have launched this website to expose the “real Islam”—the Islam that is determined to replace the modern civilization with the 7th-century Arab Bedouin barbarism, peddled by Muslims as the true Islamic Civilization. Let the world watch Islam through http://www.islam-watch.org and be warned.

    ‘Islam Watch’ is founded by a few Muslim apostates. Hailing mainly from South Asia, some of us left Islam after the 9/11; others have been apostates since prior to that. We aim to establish that Islam is false invention of Muhammad. We feel that it needs to be emasculated, or marginalized, or eliminated altogether, if the Muslim world wants to come out of its current backwardness and quagmire, characterized by poverty, corruption, illiteracy, violence, misrule and tyranny, in which they have been thrown in due to Islamic indoctrination.

    To learn more about why some of us have left Islam, please read these testimonies:

    1.My Journey to Freedom – M. A. Khan

    2.Why I left Islam – Ali Sina

    3.Making of an Unbeliever – Abul Kasem

    Visit our Leaving Islam page for more testimonies.

    Founders & members:

    M. A. Khan (USA, Editor)

    Abul Kasem (Australia)

    Dr. Ali Sina (USA)

    Sher Khan (USA)

    Syed Kamran Mirza (USA)

    Mumin Salih (UK)

    Our Challenge

    We challenge Muslims to debate on these assertions.

    We assert that Islam is not a religion of peace but is founded on war, violence, terrorism, hatred and injustice.

    We affirm that Islam is a false religion forged by Muhammad.

    We conclude that Islam is responsible for rampant corruption, widespread misrule, implausible tyranny, mindless terrorism, unrelenting violence and pervasive social injustice in the Muslim world.

    Our Mission (Why This Site)

    Our ultimate aim is to guide Muslims out of the fold of Islam. We also expect that critical voice against Islam will render it somewhat benign.

    We plan to achieve our goals in the following manner:

    1.We will criticize and expose the real truth about Islam without minding about any political correctness, whatsoever.

    2.We will establish that Islam is false in the sense that it was not revealed by any God, but was created by Prophet Muhammad himself to fulfill his greed, ego and ambition.

    3.We will prove that Islam has nothing to do with peace; instead, it is a dangerous cult founded through violence, terror, plunder and extreme injustice by Muhammad.

    4.We will prove that Islam is incompatible with the modern world. Islamic precepts stand in contravention to the concept of democracy, tolerance, human rights and gender equality, and hence is dangerous for modern civilization.

    5.We will demonstrate that Islamic terrorism, as witnessed today, is sanctioned by Islam. Terrorists did not hijack Islam; instead, Islam itself has hijacked some otherwise good human beings and turned them into machines for terror, murder and destruction.

    6.We will also awaken the non-Muslim world, especially the West, about the short-term and long-term dangers Islam to their good and benevolent society.

    7.As nontheistic humanists, we strongly affirm that human life should be guided by human conscience, wisdom and judgment based on the Golden Rule. This is an ever-changing, dynamic, process; as people gain new experience, scientific knowledge and insights into the workings of the world and human life, our ethical wisdom will change. Opposed to rigid religious doctrines, no particular set of rules or values should be considered absolute and universal. We propagate that ‘Live your own life and let other live theirs, as long as they don’t harm and cause nuisance to others’.

    8.”Islam Watch” will be dominated by ex-Muslim and progressive Muslim writers. We will make some room for non-Muslim authors to help us gauge how the non-Muslim world grasps the truth about Islam.

    9.To create a critical mass of critics of Islam from Muslim backgrounds, one of our major aims will be to create new writers, critical of Islam, from amongst Muslims. We will put maximum effort in nurturing these nascent talents. To this end, we will urge Muslim writers to pen their critical thoughts on Islam, regardless of how good they are, and we will try to accommodate them in our website.

    10.Although “Islam Watch” has been launched by ex-Muslims coming mainly from South Asia, we aim to connect to Muslim apostates and critics from all corners of the world. We encourage them from all parts of the world to voice their opinions through “Islam Watch”.

    11.We will publish a select number of Op-Ed/Articles of non-Muslim authors of strongly secular conviction. Selection of articles by non-Muslim authors would be solely at discretion of the editors.

  17. Are there many muslims in Maine? Someone referrenced ME above. Is that not the initials for the State of Maine?

  18. My God!
    RWL… you left me speechless for once. I would just ignore these posts of yours considering how wrong they are factually, historically, logically and theologically…but am afraid someone among those reading us might take any of it as factual.
    So here we go:
    ——————————–
    There are way too many reason to nullify Muhammad’s claim of being a prophet of God. Here are 10 reasons:

    1.No extraordinary natural signs before birth of Muhammad, or predictions from past religious characters about arrival of Muhammad to save the world.

    PROOFS OF MUHAMMAD’S PROPHETHOOD IN THE NEW AND OLD TESTAMENT
    “Almost all the previous Prophets predicted the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings. Despite the changes they have undergone over time, we can still find indications to his coming in the Torah, Psalms and the Gospels
    .” http://www.thewaytotruth.org/prophetmuhammad/proofs.html

    2.Islam did not exist at the time Muhammad was born. He was born to an idolater family and that’s what he followed all his childhood and teenage. That means, Muhammad, born as a Qafir (Infidel), spent 70% of his life as a proud infidel before he invented Islam.

    According to that logic, Abraham was not a Prophet, nor was Moses or Noah… for each was raised in the community they preached to, and came up with something opposite what they knew. Jesus himself challenged the established religious perspective of his time, and went against what was in practice, and against the priests. The reason why a prophet would be sent is guide people back to whatever it is they went away from, the worship of the one God and His true religion. Each of them fought against the worship of idols in some form or another, either physical idols or metaphorical idols. By the way, a qafir means someone who does not believe, you are mixing your terms.
    The historical record also does not suggest that Muhammad worshiped idols. Matter of fact, when the revelation came to him, it found in the cave where he retreated often to meditate, part of his distance from his polytheistic society.

    3.His first marriage was with a Jewish woman and not with any Muslimah. So, which religious rites were followed at his marriage ceremony with a Jewish woman if Islam wasn’t yet born? Certainly, a Jewish style marriage ceremony! Even the Quran doesn’t mention anything about the Islamic ceremony of Prophet Muhammad’s first marriage. That simply shows that even Muhammad didn’t have any idea of the existence of Islam or his prophecy.
    What? That’s a crazy assertion and an even crazier conclusion. Do you even know what Islam is? How could Muhammad know about Islam when Islam came through him? It is akin stating that Jesus did not know about Christianity, therefore he is a fraud? Or since Moses did not know about his future prophetic nature and about Judaism, therefor he was a fraud.
    His first marriage was to Khadijah, 15 years his senior, a rich merchant who hired him to man her caravans. THERE IS NO REAL RECORD, EVER, THAT CLAIMS SHE WAS JEWISH. That is incredibly false and incredibly ignorant actually! Her lineage is well traced, as is everything related to the Prophet. Her family was one of the most established ones in Mecca.

    4.If Muhammad was an adorable(?) prophet sent by Allah, then why didn’t he reveal the truth about Islam, when he was a child or when he got young? Why did he waste 40 years of his life as a non-Muslim idolater? If his purpose of coming in this world was only to reveal Islam and preach it to people, then why he had to wait until more than half of his life, living like a common man and practicing idol-worship?
    That’s the dumbest question I have ever read! See above.

    5.Almost all the rituals and rules of Islam mentioned in the Quran are copied from Judaism, which shows how deeply Muhammad was inspired by Judaism and attracted towards the Torah. So, he found copying and pasting from the Torah into his Quran was the easiest way to invent a new religion.

    Islam, Christianity, Judaism, all are from the same source, God. Obviously whoever wrote this never bothered reading the Quran, as is the wont of islamophobes, he’d seen that the quran states very unequivocally that all Prophets, and therefore all divine messages are one and the same. That is why the quran goes to great lengths to tell us the story of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Yusuf, Lot, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus, Mary and Muhamad, among others. The problem would have been if the Quran never linked to previous messages. That is why also many of the first converts were Christians and Jews in whom the Quran echoed their own holy books.

    6.Muhammad spread Islam on the point of the sword and not with love and preaching. His strategy was to rule at any price.
    Again, RWL, hard to have a discussion with someone who is so ignorant or so deceptive (I suspect the former.) Everything you say goes against the historical record, even and especially the one written by orientalists.
    Aggression is Forbidden. Fighting is permitted only in self-defence.
    The Quranic verses on this are very clear. God repeats, “do not aggress”, multiple times. Only if attacked, is one permitted to fight back. If the other party refrains from aggression and offers one peace, we are told to stop fighting.
    Unequivocally, the general populace was not forced or induced to convert to Islam. If anything, they were encouraged to continue living their lives as they had for centuries before. In the example of the conquest of Jerusalem, the caliph at the time, Umar ibn al-Khattab, wrote in the surrender treaty with the patriarchs of city:

    He [Umar] has given them an assurance of safety for themselves, for their property, their churches, their crosses, the sick and healthy of the city…Their churches will not be inhabited by Muslims and will not be destroyed…They will not be forcibly converted.²
    No other empire or state at the time had such ideas about religious tolerance. Umar, being a companion of the Prophet, sets a precedent in this treaty about the treatment of conquered peoples in Islamic law. The rest of the conquered lands, in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Persia had similar treaties. Whether the citizens of the conquered lands were Christian, Jew, Sabians, or Zoroastrians, they were allowed to keep their religious traditions. There exists not one example of forced conversion in these early conquests. http://lostislamichistory.com/did-islam-spread-by-the-sword/

    7.Muhammad killed poor, innocent and helpless people, which can’t be justified in any sense as act of a holy prophet.
    That’s a lie, as documented above and everywhere else. do you have a proof?

    8.How to call Muhammad a holy prophet, when he sexually abused uncountable number of women, including sometimes ridiculously shamefully, like his marriage with minor Aisha and his own daughter-in-law Zainab. That proves that Muhammad was just another powerful dictator, who knew very well how to take advantage of his power and abuse everyone, anywhere and in any way.
    Muhamad ruled by consultation, never deciding on anything without asking advice from his companions (as evidenced in their process for choosing a leader thereafter)died penniless, like Jesus before him, like Moses before them…like most prophets before.
    He lived in a hut less comfortable than his companions’…slept on a straw mat…had few belongings…went hungry often…gave away everything he had…protected and provided to the poor, the widows and orphans…matter of fact, the whole quranic message is a social treatise on helping and protecting the poor, women and the orphans. Most of his wives were older women whom he married to give them a home and protection.
    And as for Aisha, though many Muslims believe she was 6, the historical record states she wasn’t. Aisha being immature when married would have gone against the Quran’s edict to have women approve of their marriage, and only when they have reached maturity.

    Determination of the true age of Aisha
    It appears that Maulana Muhammad Ali was the first Islamic scholar directly to challenge the notion that Aisha was aged six and nine, respectively, at the time of her nikah and consummation of marriage. This he did in, at least, the following writings: his English booklet Prophet of Islam, his larger English book Muhammad, the Prophet, and in the footnotes in his voluminous Urdu translation and commentary of Sahih Bukhari entitled Fadl-ul-Bari, these three writings being published in the 1920s and 1930s. In the booklet Prophet of Islam, which was later incorporated in 1948 as the first chapter of his book Living Thoughts of the Prophet Muhammad, he writes in a lengthy footnote as follows:

    “A great misconception prevails as to the age at which Aisha was taken in marriage by the Prophet. Ibn Sa‘d has stated in the Tabaqat that when Abu Bakr [father of Aisha] was approached on behalf of the Holy Prophet, he replied that the girl had already been betrothed to Jubair, and that he would have to settle the matter first with him. This shows that Aisha must have been approaching majority at the time. Again, the Isaba, speaking of the Prophet’s daughter Fatima, says that she was born five years before the Call and was about five years older than Aisha. This shows that Aisha must have been about ten years at the time of her betrothal to the Prophet, and not six years as she is generally supposed to be. This is further borne out by the fact that Aisha herself is reported to have stated that when the chapter [of the Holy Quran] entitled The Moon, the fifty-fourth chapter, was revealed, she was a girl playing about and remembered certain verses then revealed. Now the fifty-fourth chapter was undoubtedly revealed before the sixth year of the Call. All these considerations point to but one conclusion, viz., that Aisha could not have been less than ten years of age at the time of her nikah, which was virtually only a betrothal. And there is one report in the Tabaqat that Aisha was nine years of age at the time of nikah. Again it is a fact admitted on all hands that the nikah of Aisha took place in the tenth year of the Call in the month of Shawwal, while there is also preponderance of evidence as to the consummation of her marriage taking place in the second year of Hijra in the same month, which shows that full five years had elapsed between the nikah and the consummation. Hence there is not the least doubt that Aisha was at least nine or ten years of age at the time of betrothal, and fourteen or fifteen years at the time of marriage.” [4] (Bolding is mine.)

    To facilitate understanding dates of these events, please note that it was in the tenth year of the Call, i.e. the tenth year after the Holy Prophet Muhammad received his calling from God to his mission of prophethood, that his wife Khadija passed away, and the approach was made to Abu Bakr for the hand of his daughter Aisha. The hijra or emigration of the Holy Prophet to Madina took place three years later, and Aisha came to the household of the Holy Prophet in the second year after hijra. So if Aisha was born in the year of the Call, she would be ten years old at the time of the nikah and fifteen years old at the time of the consummation of the marriage.
    Later research
    Research subsequent to the time of Maulana Muhammad Ali has shown that she was older than this. An excellent short work presenting such evidence is the Urdu pamphlet Rukhsati kai waqt Sayyida Aisha Siddiqa ki umar (‘The age of Lady Aisha at the time of the start of her married life’) by Abu Tahir Irfani.[4a] Points 1 to 3 below have been brought to light in this pamphlet.

    1. The famous classical historian of Islam, Ibn Jarir Tabari, wrote in his ‘History’:

    “In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of Abdul Uzza, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom Abdur Rahman and Aisha were born. These four were born before Islam.” [5]

    Being born before Islam means being born before the Call.

    2. The compiler of the famous Hadith collection Mishkat al-Masabih, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, who died 700 years ago, has also written brief biographical notes on the narrators of Hadith reports. He writes under Asma, the older daughter of Abu Bakr:

    “She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years.” [6]
    This would make Asma 28 years of age in 1 A.H., the year of the Hijra, thus making Aisha 18 years old in 1 A.H. So Aisha would be 19 years old at the time of the consummation of her marriage, and 14 or 15 years old at the time of her nikah. It would place her year of birth at four or five years before the Call.
    h t t p:/ /w w w . muslim. org/islam/aisha-age.htm

    9.Muhammad never performed any miracle, which is expected of a prophet. Instead of helping the suffering people, he used to destroy well-settled, peaceful communities, capturing their lands and making the captured children and women slave.
    See above. Simple, utter BS. Look up islamic 10 rules of war. Still the only one to limit aggression to self-defense and only to the measure of the offense.

    10.In his life, Muhammad did immense harm to humanity but that was not enough for his satanic mind. So, before dying, he left the messages of Jihad to his followers for conquering the whole world, all of humanity, in the name of Islam, which continues causing great sufferings to our lives to this day. Wouldn’t a true prophet sacrifice his own life for his people, instead of destroying lives on every flimsy excuses? It shows that Muhammad was not a prophet – neither in life nor in death.

    Muhamad’s legacy was one where all faiths and prophets before him are revered.
    Where every human being is worth the same no matter their birth, means, ethnicity or gender.
    Where an eye for an eye is tempered with forgive if you can.
    Where help the poor, the widows and the orphans is demanded.
    Where take care of animals and the environment is expected.
    If that ain’t a benefit to humanity, then what is?

    The Prophet Muhammad’s Last Sermon
    In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful
    After praising, and thanking Allah he said: (and let’s remember that by Muslims, though many Muslims don’t understand it that way, it is meant everyone who believes)

    “O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.

    O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. ALLAH has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn ‘Abd’al Muttalib (Prophet’s uncle) shall henceforth be waived…

    Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

    O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.

    O People, listen to me in earnest, worship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

    All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

    Remember, one day you will appear before ALLAH and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

    O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

    All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed your message to your people”.

  19. Po,

    I see that you are having comprehension problems, again. Those 3 articles are from the website Islam Watch. Please read my last article about who are the members of Islam Watch: they are ex-Muslims (and they are not Christians, either).

  20. Karen S
    1, January 22, 2016 at 12:18 pm
    What’s sad is this lunatic actually holds power and influence over millions of Muslims in Saudi Arabia. It’s true, he’s not just some guy on a subway. Extremism is the norm, not the exception, in the ME.
    ——————————–
    Mufti karen is doing it again. She started with a sorta true premise then went on to a conclusion that is wider ranging to fit her aim to paint the whole with the widest brush she can.
    Wahabism is the official doctrine of S. Arabia, which counts only 4.3 million sunni wahabis vs 4.3 shia and 9 million non-wahabi sunnis. Therefore, this Mufti’s influence is at best on a minority of Saudis. So karen is still truthful in the letter…but then she extends this letter everywhere else in the ME.
    Additionally, this mufti’s influence tends to stop at the border of the country, no, strike that, it stops wherever shia populations start, which in many areas of the country. If it safe therefore to assume that such influence targets no more than …what…8 million people? At best? In all of the ME? In a population of over 200 Million?
    Considering her habit of placing every muslim country in the ME, and her refusal to tell us which extremist countries are in the ME, it is fair to assume that she is lying again?
    Where is extremism the norm in the ME?
    ——————————————————-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mufti_of_Saudi_Arabia
    The Grand Mufti is the most senior religious authority in the country. His main role is to give opinions (fatwas) on legal matters and on social affairs.[1] The Saudi court system is heavily influenced by the opinions of the Grand Mufti.[2]

    History
    The office was created in 1953 by King Abdul Aziz with the appointment of Muhammad ibn Ibrahim Al ash-Sheikh.[3] Usually, the office of the Grand Mufti has been filled by a member of the Al ash-Sheikh (the descendants of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab)[4] In fact, there has only ever been one Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia who was not an Al ash-Sheikh.[5] In 1969, King Faisal abolished the office of Grand Mufti and replaced it with a Ministry of Justice. The position was restored in 1993 with the appointment of Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah bin Baz.[6] The current mufti Abdul-Aziz ibn Abdullah Al Shaykh was appointed in 1999 by King Fahd after the death of Ibn Baz.

    Saudi Arabia follows the ultra conservative Wahhabi school of Sunni Islam but sees Islamist militants, who staged attacks in the kingdom last decade, as posing a threat to its own stability.

    Although senior Wahhabi clerics endorse execution by beheading for offenses that include apostasy, adultery and sorcery, oppose women driving or working and describe Shi’ites as heretics, they differ from al Qaeda and Islamic State militants in opposing violent revolt.

    Riyadh has been a main supporter of rebels battling Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, but has funneled arms and money away from Islamic State and al Qaeda towards other opposition groups.

    Wahhabi clerics, who hold senior government positions and lend the ruling al-Saud Islamic legitimacy, oversee a massive religious infrastructure paid for by the state and are sometimes dismissed by militants as being in the government’s pocket.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/19/saudi-arabia-grand-mufti-islamic-state-enemy_n_5690701.html

  21. RWL
    1, January 22, 2016 at 1:43 pm
    Po,
    I see that you are having comprehension problems, again. Those 3 articles are from the website Islam Watch. Please read my last article about who are the members of Islam Watch: they are ex-Muslims (and they are not Christians, either).
    ——————————-
    RWL, matters little who wrote it, the issue is the same, they are very ignorant of what they talk about. If written by ex-Muslims, no wonder they are ex-Muslims! Someone with such little knowledge of their faith is bound to apostate:)
    And you for relying on it as an argument reveal your own entrenched ignorance too. Otherwise you woulda known not to quote it , offer it or base any semblance of a point on it.

  22. The abuse of human rights occurs in every single Muslim theocracy. There is no comparison between freedom and tolerance between the West and the Middle East. No comparison with free speech or tolerance for other faiths. No comparison with women’s rights. And there is no way to ever stop the criticism of such systemic abuse in a country which does value Free Speech. You do not libel garbage when you say it stinks. We howl about problems in our own country so we will definitely not be shy about criticizing a region where women are still stoned to death or flogged in 2016, for God’s sake.

    Anyone who denies this is urged to go to any one of these countries and shout, “I’m a gay Jew!” Good luck.

    And it’s so difficult to reform from within, which is the only way this region will change. Reformers are routinely imprisoned or killed, depending on the country and the nature of their efforts. Even relatively cosmopolitan Turkey is reversing course and starting the slide down to extremism. So sad.

    Every Middle Eastern Muslim theocracy has its own particular brand of extremism. The Wahhabis are also some of the most antagonistic towards preserving historical sites, in the name of Islam. Sadly, they were quite influential in the renovations of Mecca that demolished irreplaceable relics and historical artifacts.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-photos-saudi-arabia-doesnt-want-seen-and-proof-islams-most-holy-relics-are-being-demolished-in-8536968.html

  23. The trend in extremism is spread, not retreat. Not only is ISIS recruiting at a faster clip than Al Qaeda, but extremism is also spreading through Africa, as well. That continent has been tormented by wars long enough.

    I have great respect for anyone of any faith who stands up for what is right, who does not bow before extremism. This Muslim hero in Kenya paid with his life to protect Christians on a bus from extremist terrorists. God bless him, and his family who must carry on without him.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/01/22/kenyans-honor-hero-muslim-who-shielded-christians-in-attack.html?intcmp=hpbt3

  24. The good thing is that karen has now downgraded her rhetoric to ” middle eastern muslim theocracy” from her original “Extremism is the norm, not the exception, in the ME.”
    Now we are talking.

    Speaking of human rights, I wonder where is her outrage to be found when transvestites are currently murdered in record numbers across the country…
    ….when the number one cause of death for pregnant women in the US is murder….
    — when children are locked up for life and in adult prison in record numbers http://www.eji.org/childrenprison
    Across the United States, thousands of children have been sentenced as adults and sent to adult prisons. Nearly 3000 nationwide have been sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. Children as young as 13 years old have been tried as adults and sentenced to die in prison, typically without any consideration of their age or circumstances of the offense.
    Fourteen states have no minimum age for trying children as adults. Children as young as eight have been prosecuted as adults. Some states set the minimum age at 10, 12, or 13.
    Some 10,000 children are housed in adult jails and prisons on any given day in America. Children are five times more likely to be sexually assaulted in adult prisons than in juvenile facilities and face increased risk of suicide.

    ..Oh yeah, and some prisoners have served over 4 decades in solitary confinement…
    … and we must also bring up the thousands + people shot down by the cops…most of them without cause…
    … we are doing quite fine without needing to turn into a muslim theocracy and move into the ME:)

  25. No prison system in its right mind houses children with adults. Usually the children are housed in a special unit so they are segregated from the adults until they reach 18.

  26. Po: ‘RWL, matters little who wrote it,…….”

    SMH. Po, if someone asks me (and they have) to give them a few names/historians of Non-Christian sources to posit Jesus Christ’ existence, then here is a small list of those individuals:

    Josephus, born about A.D. 37 to a highly respected Jewish priest in Jerusalem named Matthias, who later became a Roman Court Historian for Emperor Vespasian, wrote the following: ‘Having such a character, Ananus thought that with Festus dead and Albinus still on the way he would have the proper opportunity. Convening the judges of the Sanhedrin, he brought before them the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, whose name was James, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned.’

    Tacitus, was the proconsul of Asia from AD 112-113. in his ‘Annuals’, Tacitus mentions Jesus once: ‘Therefore, to squelch the rumor, (the rumor was that Nero was responsible for the burning of Rome), Nero created scapegoats and subjected to the most refined tortures those whom the common people called “Christians”, a group hated for their abominable crimes. Their names comes from Christ, who, during the reign of Tiberius, had been executed by the procurator Pontius Pilate. Suppressed for the moment, the deadly superstition broke out again, not only in Judea, the land which originated this evil, but also in the city of Rome.’

    So far, here is what I have researched and found about Muhammed’s existence from Non-Muslim sources (http://answering-islam.org/authors/roark/muhammad_exist.html):

    A recent book by Robert Spencer has the title, Did Muhammad Exist? The book is well-researched and deals with many historical issues. He describes the “canonical” story, that is, the common story told by Muslims, of Muhammad and then deals with the problems of supporting the story. The conclusion is that there is little to support the Muslim claims concerning the existence of Muhammad historically.

    What are the sources of information about Muhammad?

    First, we must examine the Qur’an, the sacred book of Muslims. There is little information about Muhammad in the Qur’an. The word “Muhammad” appears 4 times in the Qur’an. In three of the cases it could merely refer to a title, “the praised one,” or “chosen one.” Other names like Abraham appear 79 times, Moses 136 times, Pharaoh 74 times. The title “messenger of Allah” appears 300 times. Surah 33:40 is certainly a reference to a person, but it tells nothing about the life of Muhammad. Surah 48:29 also names Muhammad as a messenger of Allah.

    Spencer concludes that “we can glean nothing from these passages about Muhammad’s biography. Nor is it even certain, on the basis of the Qur’anic text alone, that these passages refer to Muhammad, or did so originally.” (p.19)

    Second, there are the hadiths, traditions, that are voluminous in quantity, often contradictory in nature, and most of them fabrications due to the lack of information about Muhammad. The hadiths arose much later after Muhammad supposedly died in 632.

    Third, there is the Sira, an Arabic term for the traditional biographies of Muhammad. “The earliest biography of Muhammad was written by Ibn Ishaq (d.773), who wrote in the latter part of the eighth century, at least 125 years after the death of his protagonist, in a setting in which legendary material about Muhammad was proliferating. And Ibn Ishaq’s biography does not even exist as such; it comes down to us only in the quite lengthy fragments reproduced by an even later chronicler, Ibn Hisham, who wrote in the first quarter of the ninth century, and by other historians who reproduced and thereby preserved additional sections. Other biographical material about Muhammad dates from even later.” (p.19)

    One of the earliest non-Muslim sources to possibly mention the prophet of Islam is a document known as the Doctrina Jacobi which was written by a Christian between 634 and 640. The document mentions the Saracens coming with an army and the prophet leading them. The writer was stopped by an old man well versed in Scripture and he inquired, “what can you tell me about the prophet who has appeared with the Saracens? He replied, groaning deeply: ‘He is false, for the prophets do not come armed with a sword.’ (p.21) This unnamed prophet mentioned in the Doctrina was travelling with his army. Muhammad had died already. Moreover the full document speaks with reference to the anointed one, the Christ who was to come.”

    “… there is not a single account of any kind dating from around the time the Doctrina Jacobi was written that affirms the canonical Islamic story of Muhammad and Islam’s origins.” (p.22)

    The conquest of Jerusalem in 637 is mentioned by Sophronius, the patriarch of Jerusalem, who turned the city over to Umar, the conquering leader, but nothing is said about a holy book, or Muhammad, only that they were Saracens who were “godless.”

    The first reference to the term Muslim comes in 690 by a Coptic Christian bishop, John of Nikiou. He wrote: “And now many of the Egyptians who had been false Christians denied the holy orthodox faith and lifegiving baptism, and embraced the religion of the Muslims, the enemies of God, and accepted the detestable doctrine of the beast, that is, Muhammad, and they erred together with those idolaters, and took arms in their hands and fought against the Christians.”

    “There is, however, reason to believe that this text as it stands is not as John of Nikiou wrote it. It survives only in an Ethiopic translation from the Arabic, dating from 1602. The Arabic itself was a translation from the original Greek or some other language. There is no other record of the terms Muslim and Islam being used either by the Arabians or by the conquered people in the 690’s, outside of the inscription on the Dome of the Rock, which itself has numerous questionable features…” (p.36)

    After pursuing various issues Spencer sums up what we know about the traditional account of Muhammad’s life and the early days of Islam.
    •No record of Muhammad’s reported death in 632 appears until more than a century after that date.
    •A Christian account apparently dating from the mid-630s speaks of an Arab prophet “armed with a sword” who seems to be still alive.
    •The early accounts written by the people the Arabs conquered never mention Islam, Muhammad, or the Qur’an. They call the conquerors “Ishmaelites,” “Saracens,” “Muhajirun,” and “Hagarians” but never “Muslims.”
    •The Arab conquerors, in their coins and inscriptions, don’t mention Islam or the Qur’an for the first six decades of their conquests. Mentions of “Muhammad” are non-specific and on at least two occasions are accompanied by a cross. The word can be used not only as a proper name but also as an honorific.
    •The Qur’an, even by the canonical Muslim account, was not distributed in its present form until the 650’s. Contradicting that standard account is the fact that neither the Arabian nor the Christians and Jews in the region mention the Qur’an until the early eighth century.
    •During the reign of the caliph Muawiya (661-680), the Arabs constructed at least one public building whose inscription was headed by a cross.
    •We begin hearing about Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, and about Islam itself in the 690’s, during the reign of the caliph Abd al-Malik. Coins and inscriptions reflecting Islamic beliefs begin to appear at this time also.
    •Around the same time, Arabic became the predominant written language of the Arabian Empire, supplanting Syriac and Greek.
    •Abd al-Malik claimed, in a passing remark in one hadith, to have collected the Qur’an, contradicting Islamic tradition that the collection was the work of the caliph Uthman forty years earlier.
    •Multiple hadiths report that Hajjaj ibn Yusuf, governor of Iraq during the reign of Abd al-Malik, edited the Qur’an and distributed his new edition to the various Arab-controlled provinces— again, something Uthman is supposed to have done decades earlier.
    •Even some Islamic traditions maintain that certain common Islamic practices, such as the recitation of the Qur’an during mosque prayers, date from orders of Hajjaj ibn Yusuf, not to the earlier period of Islamic history.
    •In the middle of the eighth century, the Abbasid dynastic supplanted the Umayyad line of Abd al-Malik. The Abbasids charged the Umayyads with impiety on a large scale. In the Abbasid period, biographical material about Mohammed began to proliferate. The first complete biography of the prophet of Islam finally appeared during this era—at least 125 years after the traditional date of his death.
    •The biographical material that emerged situates Muhammad in an area of Arabia that never was the center for trade and pilgrimage that the canonical Islamic account of Islam’s origin depend on it to be. (pp.205-206)

    Given these huge problems for the history of Islam, how does Spencer explain the rise of Islam? He proposes the need for a political theology that would reflect Arabic culture, Arabic language, and Arabic religion. When warriors from Arabia encountered the conquered cultures they observed that the Roman empire had a political theology for the purpose of binding the empire together. “The earliest Arab rulers appear to have been adherents of Hagarism, a monotheistic religion centered around Abraham and Ishmael.” (p.208) It was not as anti-Christian as Islam developed later since there were Arab coins with crosses on them. This religious model reached its height in 691 and there began to emerge a defiantly Arabic one.

    By the end of the seventh century and the beginning of the eight, “the Umayyads began to speak more specifically about Islam, its prophet and eventually its book.” (The Umayyad dynasty ruled from 661 to 750.) The Dome of the Rock’s inscription referring to the “praised one” no longer could refer to Jesus, but to Muhammad. Even if Muhammad did not exist his name would be politically useful since the Arabs needed an Arab prophet who would also have a scripture in Arabic. Since much of the Qur’an has been borrowed from Jewish and Christian sources of some kind it was easy to plagiarize them and change them for their own uses.

    The lack of historical documents seems to be blamed on the Umayyad party who were replaced by the Abbasids in 750. The Umayyads were regarded as irreligious, failing to appreciate the history of Islam. With the new Caliph, the Abbasids, there begins a massive attempt to fill in the gaps of ignorance about the past, about Muhammad, and the manufacture of hadiths (traditions) began in earnest. Many of the hadiths blame the Umayyads, and the Umayyads created their own hadiths blaming the Abbasids. There are 600,000 hadiths, all of them forgeries by competing groups. Even the Shia have their own hadiths affirming the claim of Ali as successor to Muhammad.

    Essentially, Spencer maintains that the Arabian empire came first, the theology came later.

    He concludes: “A careful investigation makes at least one thing clear: The details of Muhammad’s life that have been handed down as canonical—that he unified Arabia by the force of arms, concluded alliances, married wives, legislated for his community, and did so much else—are a creation of political ferment dating from long after the time he is supposed to have lived. Similarly, the records strongly indicate that the Qur’an did not exist until long after it was supposed to have been delivered to the prophet of Islam.”

    “Did Muhammad exist? As a prophet of the Arabs who taught a vaguely defined monotheism, he may have existed. But beyond that, his life story is lost in the mists of legend, like those of Robin Hood and Macbeth. As the prophet of Islam, who received (or even claimed to receive) the perfect copy of the perfect eternal book from the supreme God, Muhammad almost certainly did not exist. There are too many gaps, too many silences, too many aspects of the historical record that simply do not accord, and cannot be made to accord, with the traditional account of the Arabian prophet teaching his Qur’an, energizing his followers to such an extent that they went out and conquered a good part of the world.” (pp.214-215)

    Po,

    Please give me a Non-Muslim source for Muhammed’s existence and/or what he accomplished?

  27. RWL & PO

    Both sides seem to have that same ‘skin in the game’ as does Reza Aslan. Aslan is an accomplished ‘scholar’ who betrays his scholarship to defend Islam. His accomplishments and grasp of history are enough for him but woefully lacking in the world of scholarship. In other words he knows just enough to be convincing and dangerous. Typically scholars don’t express views on such complicated issues as religion until they near the end of their lives/careers. Aslan is a self designed fifth columnist. He could be a scholar if he weren’t so vested in Islam so as to present falsehoods and misconceptions. Or, if he could just keep his mouth shut.

    Any religion by definition must claim in an absolute manner. “There is not other god….” “and Mohammed is…” Jesus is god or the son of god…. We are the chosen….. Without this great one upsmanship there would be no religion it would be nothing more than its core tenet, power. Society must be controlled or it will destroy itself. The ultimate religion is self control. Control through gods and prophets and idiots such as are found in the Middle East and indeed throughout the world, regardless of religion, is nothing more than survival through coercion. Religion’s true place in humanity is after self control. The West has learned this and is practicing this. The Islamic world is six to seven hundred years behind, regardless of their achievements, which are relatively few. If one needs a billion others to agree with them, then they cannot have given the issues much thought.

    The chess game that the religious fool is banning is much, much, much more important to humanity than Islam. It represents the proper context for someone trying to win over another.

  28. I forgot to add: other Non-Christian sources for Jesus Christ’ existence are Roman philosopher Celsus (AD 177), Roman Governor of Bithynia Pliny the Younger (AD 111-113), & Greek satirist Lucian of Samosata.

  29. RWL. The most salient issue about Jesus is not whether he did or did not exist but why it was apparently necessary that some early Christians established the creed that he was the Son of God. Do you know why it was necessary to deviate from the Judaic tradition about the nature of the messiah?

  30. Dieter Heymann – the Romans did not deviate from the Jewish concept of the Messiah, hence the INRI on the top of his cross.

  31. It is recorded that Jesus lived and was a trouble maker. That is all. The rest was and continues to be fabricate after the fact predominantly by wizards who weren’t even born at the time and in most cases wouldn’t be born for centuries. Read history from any angle and time dictates that Jesus had little if anything to do with Christianity.

  32. Dieter Heymann,

    This is just my opinion, based upon reading & studying the Bible (I am also in the infant stages of studying Judaism & Karaism, but neither of the two believes that Jesus is the Christ). Your question is , basically, why did so many Jews become Christians? Why did so many Jews, and later on billions of ‘Gentiles’ and other Jews jump on the Jesus-is-the-Christ bandwagon? Were Jesus teachings right-on with Judaic tradition, laws, customs, religion as the coming Messiah? if they weren’t, then why did so many believe Him? If they were, then why did so many did not (and still do not) believe that He was the Christ.

    I believe that He did not deviate from the Judaism, but He fulfilled the law of Judaism. I believe followers of Judaism believed that one ‘who is killed before completing the task (i.e., compelling all of Israel to walk in the way of Torah, repairing the breaches in observance, fighting the wars of God, building the Temple in its place, gathering in the dispersed exiles of Israel) is not the messiah.’ The Torah was talking about how the Messiah (Jesus) was going to do all this, but not until the End of the Age (as describe in the Book of Revelation). I believe the followers of Judaism were looking for End of the Age Jesus, and not, the Grace & Forgiveness Jesus, due to how badly they (followers of Judaism) were being treated by Romans, Assyrians, Babylonians, etc.

    Jesus had to prove to the Jews, including the 12 disciples, that He was the Christ (He even had to prove this to his unbelieving brother, James). He did this via miracles, and His teaching as ‘one having authority’. Finally, His resurrection was the icing on the cake (so much, that His disciples were all willing to die and/or be ostracized in spreading the Gospel of Jesus as the Son of God. Remember, they all fled from Him when the Jews of the Sanhedrin arrested Him, and later crucified Him. At this time, their faith in Him was as infants drinking milk or not strong enough to die for the Him).

    There is what is called the Criteria of Embarrassment, helping to prove the existence of Jesus, His crucifixion, & His followers (all from Wikipedia):

    a critical analysis of historical accounts in which accounts embarrassing to the author are presumed to be true because the author would have no reason to invent an embarrassing account about himself. Some Biblical scholars have used this criterion in assessing whether the New Testament’s accounts of Jesus’ actions and words are historically probable.[1]

    The criterion of embarrassment is one point listed in the Criteria of Authenticity used by academics which also lists: the criterion of dissimilarity, criterion of language and environment, criterion of coherence, and the criterion of multiple attestation.[2]

    The assumption of the criterion of embarrassment is that the early church would hardly have gone out of its way to create or falsify historical material that only embarrassed its author or weakened its position in arguments with opponents. Rather, embarrassing material coming from Jesus would be either suppressed or softened in later stages of the Gospel tradition. This criterion is rarely used by itself, and is typically one of a number of criteria, such as the criterion of discontinuity and the criterion of multiple attestation, along with the historical method.

    The crucifixion of Jesus is an example of an event that meets the criterion of embarrassment. This method of execution was considered the most shameful and degrading in the Roman world, and advocates of the criterion claim this method of execution is therefore the least likely to have been invented by the followers of Jesus.[4][5][6][7][8]

  33. Issacbasonkavichi,

    I cannot convince you or Po to become Christian Apologetics or Non-Denominational Christians, but I can point you to an individual that will provide you with a wealth of information to show you that it is more probable than not that Jesus is the Christ.

    Please visit William Lane Craig’s website Reasonable faith.org (all one word). Here is a little bit about Dr. Craig from a secular source:

    Chronicle of Higher Education: http://chronicle.com/article/The-New-Theist/140019/

    Here is what a prominent, atheist website has to say about Dr. Craig: http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=392

  34. RWL, you do realize that Robert Spencer is an avowed islamophone, right?
    That he is not a scholar of Islam, right? And that everything he has said about Islam has been debunked, right?
    And that whatever he says goes against the historical consensus, right?

    And you/(he) are using the Quran, which was revealed to Muhamad, to refute the argument that he existed? You do realize that of all the prophets who ever came, there is more historical record to prove Muhamad’s existence than there is about any other prophet?
    Didn’t you argue above that he was satanic, evil, violent, deceptive and he was not a prophet? Didn’t that post above prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Muhammad was everything but a prophet?
    Yet this last post argues beyond the shadow of a doubt that Muhammad did not exist? Which is it?
    Let me offer your first post as an answer to your last post.

    Also rather odd that you ask me to give you quotes from non-Muslims about Islam.but since you ask, I’ll gladly oblige:
    ———————–

    What famous non-Muslims said about Islam and Prophet Muhammad PBUH
    Napoleon Bonaparte
    I hope the time is not far off when I shall be able to unite all the wise and educated men of all the countries and establish a uniform regime based on the principles of Quran which alone are true and which alone can lead men to happiness.

    Sir George Bernard Shaw
    I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him – the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity.
    I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.

    H.G. Wells
    The Islamic teachings have left great traditions for equitable and gentle dealings and behaviour, and inspire people with nobility and tolerance. These are human teachings of the highest order and at the same time practicable. These teachings brought into existence a society in which hard-heartedness and collective oppression and injustice were the least as compared with all other societies preceding it… Islam is replete with gentleness, courtesy, and fraternity.

    Phillip Hitti
    During all the first part of the Middle Ages, no other people made as important a contribution to human progress as did the Arabs, if we take this term to mean all those whose mother-tongue was Arabic, and not merely those living in the Arabian peninsula. For centuries, Arabic was the language of learning, culture and intellectual progress for the whole of the civilized world with the exception of the Far East. From the 9th to the 12th century there were more philosophical, medical, historical, religious, astronomical and geographical works written in Arabic than in any other human tongue.

    R. Bosworth Smith
    He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope’s pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports. He cared not for the dressings of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life.

    Sarojini Naidu
    It was the first religion that preached and practised democracy; for, in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: ‘God Alone is Great’

    Dr. William Draper
    Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born in Mecca, in Arabia, the man who, of all men, has exercised the greatest influence upon the human race… To be the religious head of many empires, to guide the daily life of one-third of the human race, may perhaps justify the title of a Messenger of God.

    Thomas Carlyle
    The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only.
    A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world, the world’s Maker had ordered so.

    A. S. Tritton
    The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand and the Qur’an in the other is quite false.

    De Lacy O’Leary
    History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.

    Gibbon
    The good sense of Muhammad despised the pomp of royalty. The Apostle of God submitted to the menial offices of the family; he kindled the fire; swept the floor; milked the ewes; and mended with his own hands his shoes and garments. Disdaining the penance and merit of a hermit, he observed without effort of vanity the abstemious diet of an Arab.

    Edward Gibbon and Simon Oakley
    The greatest success of Mohammad’s life was effected by sheer moral force.

    Edward Montet
    Islam is a religion that is essentially rationalistic in the widest sense of this term considered etymologically and historically… the teachings of the Prophet, the Qur’an has invariably kept its place as the fundamental starting point, and the dogma of unity of God has always been proclaimed therein with a grandeur a majesty, an invariable purity and with a note of sure conviction, which it is hard to find surpassed outside the pale of Islam… A creed so precise, so stripped of all theological complexities and consequently so accessible to the ordinary understanding might be expected to possess and does indeed possess a marvellous power of winning its way into the consciences of men.

    Mahatma Gandhi
    I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind… I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.

    Alphonse de LaMartaine
    If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws, and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples, dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and the souls.

    Michael Hart
    My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level.
    …It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. .
    ..It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

    Rodwell
    Mohammad’s career is a wonderful instance of the force and life that resides in him who possesses an intense faith in God and in the unseen world. He will always be regarded as one of those who have had that influence over the faith, morals and whole earthly life of their fellow men, which none but a really great man ever did, or can exercise; and whose efforts to propagate a great verity will prosper.

    W. Montgomery Watt
    His readiness to undergo persecution for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as a leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement – all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems that it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad…
    Thus, not merely must we credit Muhammad with essential honesty and integrity of purpose, if we are to understand him at all; if we are to correct the errors we have inherited from the past, we must not forget the conclusive proof is a much stricter requirement than a show of plausibility, and in a matter such as this only to be attained with difficulty.

    D. G. Hogarth in ‘Arabia’
    Serious or trivial, his daily behaviour has instituted a canon which millions observe this day with conscious memory. No one regarded by any section of the human race as Perfect Man has ever been imitated so minutely.The conduct of the founder of Christianity has not governed the ordinary life of his followers. Moreover, no founder of a religion has left on so solitary an eminence as the Muslim apostle.

    Washington Irving
    He was sober and abstemious in his diet and a rigorous observer of fasts. He indulged in no magnificence of apparel, the ostentation of a petty mind; neither was his simplicity in dress affected but a result of real disregard for distinction from so trivial a source.
    In his private dealings he was just. He treated friends and strangers, the rich and poor, the powerful and weak, with equity, and was beloved by the common people for the affability with which he received them, and listened to their complaints.
    His military triumphs awakened no pride nor vain glory, as they would have done had they been effected for selfish purposes. In the time of his greatest power he maintained the same simplicity of manners and appearance as in the days of his adversity. So far from affecting a regal state, he was displeased if, on entering a room, any unusual testimonials of respect were shown to him. If he aimed at a universal dominion, it was the dominion of faith; as to the temporal rule which grew up in his hands, as he used it without ostentation, so he took no step to perpetuate it in his family.

    James Michener
    No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience.

  35. By the way, RWL, you have not answered any of my challenges to your original post. Are they coming?
    Or will you recruit Dr Craig Lane to answer them?

    And then more testimonies from non-Muslims.
    From a Jewish atheist scholar or religions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09TI5CHQuac
    From rabbis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBcA2IaZyNg

    If you are interested in debates between Muslims and Christians, where you get to hear both sides, look up Ahmed Deedat, or Zakir Naik.

    And please refrain from posting anything else until we finish addressing these ongoing issues.

  36. isaac says:
    Any religion by definition must claim in an absolute manner. “There is not other god….” “and Mohammed is…” Jesus is god or the son of god…. We are the chosen….. Without this great one upsmanship there would be no religion it would be nothing more than its core tenet, power.
    ——————————————
    nope, Isaac, islam actually states the opposite, that all prophets are equal and each is one more messenger sent to establish the single truth, that there is only one God, and only He must be worshiped. AS I keep saying and it keeps falling into deaf ears, Islam is the whole message, Judaism and Christianity were each sent to vest control of the faith from its corrupters.
    Hence, one cannot be a Muslim unless one believes in previous prophets and previous messages.
    And, to reiterate, Islam means submission to God, and Muslim means he who submits, therefore, the word Muslim and believer in the quran means both the followers of Muhammad, but also anyone who submits to God and follows any prophet.

    At some point, rather than talking from our assumptions or quoting other people’s biased views of Islam, we must crack the book open and read it, then speak out of connaissance de cause.
    It gets a bit tiresome being told what is in t e book I read everyday by people who have not read it:)

  37. Paul C. Schulte.
    1, January 22, 2016 at 2:41 pm
    No prison system in its right mind houses children with adults. Usually the children are housed in a special unit so they are segregated from the adults until they reach 18.
    ————————————
    No doubt, Paul. Just saw a documentary where children locked up in adult prisons are raped and abused in huge numbers.

  38. SMH. Once again, you are not comprehending the question. The people who you listed are not Non-Muslim sources or references for verifying the validity of Islam, as a true religion, Muhammad’s existence & accomplishments. Unbelievable.

  39. PO

    Religion inherently demands that the participant believe in something one way and one way only. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a religion. There are those that ‘a la carte’ certain religions. Muslims are perhaps, these days, the most ‘a la carte’ of all. However, Christians, Jews, and the rest are often times selective in how they identify with the stuff. A perfect example is Christianity and the Old Testament. Most Christians take these stories and lessons as observations on mankind’s triumphs, failures, weaknesses, and strengths and that all will be well if you learn how to adhere. This is a natural extension of the pantheon arrangement of gods or human attributes: war, love, peace, wine, etc. Unfortunately it is easier to organize a mob of thugs to go out and slaughter if you have the god and the representative right there in the cesspool that everyone wants to get out of. Or, my god said that it was ok to take your land, goats, daughters, etc. The Koran is a lot like this as well. I doubt very much that the mainstream Muslims adhere totally to all the vicious stuff in that book. The book is such a jumble of disparate instructions it reminds one of a shotgun blast, holes everywhere. The thugs and nut cases can pick whatever hole they want. It is not the koran, god, or Muhammed that gives them the right or strength. It is simply their uselessness looking for worth.

    So, you can pick what you will to make your argument. The bottom line is that any religion can be cherry picked to the point of perversity. Islam is today’s perversity. Try explaining that stuff about recognizing all prophets etc to a turbaned retard in Syria. The root of the problem that does not always present the problem is religion as the end all be all. The solution is self control as is being practiced in the West with religion a personal mumbo jumbo allowed as long as it does not usurp decency. That means absolutely Sharia law in the more advanced nations. That means calling a spade a spade or a mufti a retard/killer.

  40. RWL
    1, January 22, 2016 at 7:27 pm
    SMH. Once again, you are not comprehending the question. The people who you listed are not Non-Muslim sources or references for verifying the validity of Islam, as a true religion, Muhammad’s existence & accomplishments. Unbelievable.
    ——————————
    RWl, perhaps you ought to reframe your question better, in order to avoid the misunderstanding. What type of source of reference are you looking for other than the usual, historical and theological?

  41. Po,

    I will try this one last time (maybe, I wasn’t clear enough earlier): Give me a non-Muslim scholar, academic individual on the who can posit the validity of the religion of Islam & Muhammad’s existence and his accomplishments. Someone who has the same or higher academic credentials as Robert Spencer (who has a MA in Religious Studies and has published over 12 books on Islam, and he also has published numerous articles, speaking engagements, etc), or Dr. Nasr, from Pro. JT’s school, GWU.

  42. RWL
    Before I give you a list of non-Muslim scholars who accept that Islam is “valid” and Muhamad existed (is that same as you ask?), which you can find online in 20 seconds flat, let me address your islamic scholar, Robert Spencer:
    —————————————————————
    http://spencerwatch.com/real-scholars-experts-on-islam/
    “Robert Spencer’s “Scholarly” Credentials
    Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) ranked Robert Spencer as the second leading Islamophobe in the country, losing out the number one position to his boss and financier David Horowitz. Former Nixon advisor Robert Crane calls out Spencer as “the principal leader…in the new academic field of Islam-bashing.” Even though Horowitz can be credited with funding the modern day online Crusade against Islam, it is Robert Spencer who fights on the online battlefield, attacking his Muslim foes and their liberal dhimmi allies. In order to bolster his credibility, Spencer and his allies not only claim that he is a scholar, but his own website touts him as “the acclaimed scholar of Islam”. Because these words are boldly emblazoned on his own site, we can only assume that he takes such claims seriously. It is thus fair game to call him to task for this.

    His claims notwithstanding, Robert Spencer simply does not possess any scholarly credentials. To be seriously considered a scholar in the academic world in this day and age, one must at minimum possess some rudimentary academic education in the field in which one is claiming scholarship. In order to be considered a scholar, one must have published numerous peer-reviewed articles in reputable journals, the articles being subjected to rigorous critique by established authorities before being accepted. First year students in Ph.D. programs have published far more of such articles than Robert Spencer ever has. There is good reason for that: Spencer has published no such articles, contenting himself with reproducing work in non-academic and populist publications. Spencer does not even possess a Master’s Degree in anything related to Islam, let alone a Ph.D. and post-doctoral fellowship. Spencer does have in M.A. in the field of early Christian studies; does that make him a scholar of Christianity? If not, then why is he considered a scholar of Islam without even an M.A. in Islamic studies?

    How many Ph.D’s does Robert Spencer hold on the subject of Islam, Muslims, Islamic history, or Islamic Studies?

    Zero.

    How many Master Degrees does Robert Spencer hold on the subject of Islam, Muslims, Islamic history, or Islamic Studies?

    Zero.

    How many diplomas in Quranic studies, Hadith, Fiqh, or Shariah does Robert Spencer have from Western universities or reputable Islamic houses of learning such as Al Azhar or Qom?

    Zero.

    How many peer-reviewed academic papers has Robert Spencer published?

    Zero.

    How many “Real” scholars of Islam – people who actually hold themselves to scientific standards and objectivity in scholarship – agree with Robert Spencer?

    Zero.

    Robert Spencer is in fact an anti-Muslim polemicist and advocate. He cloaks himself in the presentation of a “scholar” in order to sell his otherwise laughable “scholarship” to the clueless and the gullible.

    Going to a fake scholar like him (rather than to a credible scholar of merit) for information on Islam or Muslims is akin to going to a Witch Doctor (rather than to an actual physician) for healing. In other words, Robert Spencer is offering you the intellectual equivalent of frog-eyeball and goat-testicle potion? You call that science, and we have a “Brooklyn Bridge” we would love to sell you.

    For a full synopsis of Robert Spencer’s lack of scholarly credentials please read, Is Robert Spencer a Scholar? On Spencer’s Credentials and Methodology.

  43. ALso, RWL, the first translators of the Quran were western non-Muslims. And the field of orientalism or islamic studies is still dominated by non-Muslim scholars. http://www.newenglishreview.org/Ibn_Warraq/The_Significance_Of_Non-Muslim_Evidence_For_Koranic_Studies/ Please sift through this list. by author (non-Muslim or academic) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Included are prominent authors who have made studies concerning Islam, the religion and its civilization, and the culture of Muslim peoples. Not included are those studies of Islam produced by Muslim authors meant primarily for a Muslim audience.[1] Herein most of the authors from the early centuries of Islam belonged to non-Muslim societies, cultures, or religions. The primary intent of many early works was to inform non-Muslims about a distant and/or unfamiliar Islam; some were clearly polemical in motivation and cannot be termed objective. As time went on, academic standards were developed generally, and were increasingly applied to studies of Islam. Many of the authors here are of Christian provenance, yet there are also Jewish, Zoroastrian, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Taoist, Confucian, Communist, and secular points of view. The most recent entries are often sourced in universities, and include works by Muslim professors whose publications address a worldwide audience.[2] Contents [hide] 1 Chronological by date of birth 1.1 622 to 1500 1.2 1500 to 1800 1.3 1800 to 1900 1.4 1900 to 1950s 2 Chronological by date of publication 3 Other and Incomplete: alphabetical 4 Reference notes 5 See also 6 External links Chronological by date of birth[edit] 622 to 1500[edit] Joannis Damasceni (c. 676-749), official of the Caliph at Damascus, later a Syrian monk, Doctor of the Church, his Peri Aireseon [Concerning Heresies] [t], its chapter 100 being “Heresy of the Ishmailites” (attribution questioned). Du Huan, captured at 751 Battle of Talas, traveled in Muslim lands for ten years, his Jingxingji [Record of Travels] (c. 770) contains descriptions of Muslim life; book lost, but quoted by his uncle Du You in his Tongdian (766-801), an encyclopedia of China. Sankara (c. 788-820) of Kerala, pivotal Hindu reformer; theologian of non-duality, the Advaita Vedanta: a unity of self (atman) and the whole (Brahman); unresolved is the claim that early notions of the Sufi wahdat al-wujud [Oneness of Being] was synthesized by Sankara. Abd al-Masih ibn Ishaq al-Kindi, probably 8th/9th century Abbasid, pseudonym [Servant of the Messiah…] of an Arab Christian, author of the Risalah, a dialogue with a Muslim; later translated into Latin by Pedro de Toledo, this work became very influential in Europe. Nicetas Byzantius, his 9th century polemic Anatrope tes para tou Arabos… (P.G., v.105) picks at the Qur’an chapter by chapter. Mardan-Farrukh of Iran, his late 9th century Sikand-Gumanik Vigar [Doubt-Dispelling Treatise] [t] (S.B.E., v.24) favorably compares his Zoroastrianism, especially its theodicy, with Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, whose doctrines and beliefs are discussed. Petrus Venerabilis (c. 1092-1156), Abbot of Cluny (France), while in Hispania circa 1240, inspired a group led by Robert of Ketton (England), with Herman von Carinthia (Slovenia), Pierre de Poitiers (France), and the mozarab Pedro de Toledo to translate the Qur’an into Latin, hence the Lex Mahumet pseudoprophete (1143); it circulated only in manuscript copies until 1543. Often only a tinted paraphrase, later George Sales would say it “deserves not the name of translation” because of its inaccuracy. Raimundo, Arzobispo de Toledo (r. 1125-1152) sponsored uncensored translations, at first by Domingo Gundisalvo a mozarab who rendered into Latin the Spanish translations from Arabic by the converso Juan Avendaut; later joined by European scholars, e.g., Gerardo da Cremona. From books found in al-Andalus, e.g., the pagan Aristotle (centuries earlier translated from ancient Greek into Arabic by Syrian Christians), and the Muslims Ibn Sina (Avicenna), al-Ghazali, Ibn Rushd (Averroës); such translations led to controversy & the eventual “baptism” of Aristotle by Tomas d’Aquino at the University of Paris. Mose ben Maimon (1135–1204), major Jewish theologian and talmudist who fled Al-Andalus for Morocco, then Cairo, his Dalalat al-Ha’rin [Guide of the Perplexed] (Fostat 1190) [in Arabic] [t], reconciles the Bible and the Talmud with Aristotle, discusses Al-Farabi, Ibn Sina (Avicenna), and the Muslim Kalam, especially the Mutakallimun, as well as the Mutazili; influenced by Ibn Rushd (Averroës). Marco de Toledo (fl. 1193-1216) Castile, an improved Latin translation from Arabic of the Qur’an. Francesco d’Assisi (1182–1226), Italian saint, as peaceful missionary to Muslims, preached before Al-Kamil, Kurdish Sultan of Egypt, in 1219 during the fifth crusade; his Regula non bullata (1221) [t], chapter XVI “Those who are going among the Saracens and other unbelievers” counsels not to enter disputes, but rather humility, proclaiming what will please God. Frederick II (1194–1250), Hohenstaufen Emperor, at whose court in Palermo, Sicily, translations from Arabic into Latin continued. Ibn Kammuna (c. 1215-c. 1285), Jewish scholar of Baghdad, his fair-minded though controversial Tanqih al-abhat li-l-milal al-talat [Examination of the Inquiries into the Three Faiths] (1280) [in Arabic] [t]. Alfonso X el Sabio (1221–1284), Castile, his royal Scriptorium or Escuela de Traductores continued translations from Arabic (especially Greek scientific works and Islamic) into Latin, which then became widely known in Europe; many translators were Jewish. Ramon Marti (d. c. 1286) Castilla, Dominican friar, Summa contra errores Alcoranorum (1260); Pugio fidei adversus mauros et judaeos (c. 1280); a traditional partisan, he refers to the Qur’an, Hadith, as well as al-Farabi, Ibn Sina, al-Ghazali, Ibn Rushd. Tomás d’Aquino (c. 1225-1274) Italian Dominican, Doctor of the Church (“Angelicus”), his Summa contra Gentiles (c. 1261-64) [t], includes criticism of the Aristotelianism of Ibn Rushd (Averroës); also De Unitate Intellectus Contra Averroistas (Paris 1270) [t]. Bar ‘Ebraya [Abu-l-Farag] ((1226–1286), Catholicos of the Syriac Orthodox Church, learned theologian, prolific author, his spiritual treatise in Syriac Kethabha dhe yauna [Book of the Dove], as well as his Ethikon said by Wensinck to show influence by al-Ghazali. Ramon Llull [Raimundo Lulio] (1232–1316) Catalan (Majorca) author and theologian, “Doctor Illuminatus”, proponent of the “Ars Magna”, fluent in Arabic, three times missionary to Tunis; his Llibre del Gentile e dels tres Savis (1274–76) [t], in which one learned in Hellenic philosophy hears three scholars, Jewish, Christian, and Muslim, whose views are shared with exquisite courtesy by reasoning over their mutual virtues, rather than by attack and defense. Lull infers a heterodox continuum between the natural & the revealed supernatural. Riccoldo di Monte Croce (1243–1320) Italian (Firenze) Dominican, a missionary during the 1290s, lived in Baghdad, his Propugnaculum Fidei soon translated into Greek, later into German by Martin Luther; also polemic Contra Legum Serracenorum (Baghdad, c. 1290). Ramananda (died 1410) Hindu egalitarian reformer of bhakti movement, origin as Brahmin in sect of Ramanuja; his popular synthesis of both Islamic and Hindu elements led also to inter-religious understanding; the Sant Mat poet Kabir was a disciple. Ruy Gonzáles de Clavijo (died 1412), ambassador of Enrique III of Castile to Timur at Samarkand, Embajada a Tamor Lán (1582) [t]. Nicolaus Cusanus (1401–1464) German Cardinal, at cusp of renaissance; following the fall of Constantinople, his De pace fidei (1455) [t] sought common ground among the various religions, presenting fictitious short dialogues involving an Arab, an Indian, an Assyrian, a Jew, a Scythian, a Persian, a Syrian, a Turk, a Tartar, and various Christians; also his Cribratio Alcorani (1460). Nanak (1469–1539) India, influenced by Muslim sufis and Hindu bhakti, became a teacher who traveled far to preach the unity of God; Sikhs revere him as their first Guru; opposed to caste divisions, and opposed to Hindu-Muslim rivalry/conflict. Leo Africanus (c.1488-1554), originally Al Hassan, Muslim of Fez; traveled with his diplomat uncle to Timbuktu; later captured by Christian pirates & sold into slavery; freed by Pope Leo X and baptised; wrote Cosmographia Dell’Africa of his travels; returned to Islam. => The [t] following a title indicates books translated into English. 1500 to 1800[edit] Enbaqom (c.1470-1565), Ethiopia, echage or abbot of Dabra Libanos, origin as trader from Yemen; his Anqasa Amin [Gateway of Faith] (c.1533), written in Ge’ez, defends Christianity contra Islam, citing the Qur’an, and is addressed to the Muslim invader Ahmad Gran. Theodor Bibliander [Buchmann] (1506–1564), Swiss (Zurich) theologian, in 1543 published in Basle various documents (with a preface by Martin Luther), which included the Lex Mahumet pseudoprophete of 1143. Luis de Marmol Carvajal (c. 1520-c. 1600), Spanish soldier in Africa twenty years, captured and enslaved seven years, travels in Guinea, North Africa, Egypt, and perhaps Ethiopia: Descripción general de África (1573, 1599). Alonso del Castillo (1520s-c.1607), Spain, formative work in Arabic archives and inscriptions (his father once a Morisco of Granada). Andre du Ryer (c. 1580-c. 1660) France, translation of the Qur’an: L’Alcoran de Mahomet translaté d’arabe en françois (Paris 1647) [t]. Alexander Ross (1591–1654), Scotland, chaplain to Charles I, first English translation of the Qur’an (1649) from the French of du Ryer. Ludovico Marracci (1612–1700) Italian priest, professor of Arabic, Latin translation of the Qur’an, Alcorani textus universus… (Padova 1698), publication delayed by Church censors, in two volumes: Prodromus contains a biography of Mohammad and summary of Islamic doctrine; Refutatio Alcorani contains the Qur’an in Arabic text, with Latin translation, annotated per partisan purposes (cf., Ottoman military proximity); cited by Edward Gibbon. Also, his earlier contributions translating the Bible into Arabic (1671). Dara Shikuh (1615–1659), Mughal, elder brother of Aurangzeb; Muslim but included here because of his syncretism in the tradition of his great-grandfather Akbar; his Majma-ul-Bahrain [Mingling of Two Oceans] (1655) [t] finds parallels between Sufism and the monotheistic Vedanta of Hinduism, it was later translated into Sanskrit; also his own translation into Persian of the Upanishads. Johann Heinrich Hottinger (1620–1667) Swiss philologist, theologian, Historia Orientalis (Tiguri 1651) in Latin. Barthelemy d’Herbelot de Molainville (1625–1695) French philologist, Bibliothèque orientale (1697), based initially on the Turkish scholar Katip Celebi’s Kashf al-Zunum which contains over 14,000 alphabetical entries. Henry Stubbe (1632–1676) English author, his An Account of the rise and progress of Mahometanism: with the life of Mahomet and a vindication of him and his religion from the calumnies of the Christians, which evidently lay in manuscript several hundred years until edited by Mahmud Khan Shairani and published (London: Luzac 1911). Jean Chardin (1643–1713) French merchant, Journal du Voyage.. de Chardin en Perse et aux Indes Orientales (1686, 1711) [t]. Antoine Galland (1646–1715) France, first in the West to translate the Arabian Nights, Les Mille et Une Nuits (1704–1717). Humphrey Prideaux (1648–1724) Anglican Dean, traditional partisan, The True Nature of Imposture fully display’d in the Life of Mahomet (London 1697), reprint 1798, Fairhaven, Vermont; this work follows earlier polemics, & also refutes European deists. Abraham Hinckelmann (1652–1692), edited an Arabic text of the Qur’an, later published in Hamburg, Germany, in 1694. Henri Comte de Boulainviller (1658–1722) French historian, his Vie de Mahomet (2nd ed., Amsterdam 1731) [t], praises what he saw as the instrumental rationalism of the prophet, portraying Islam in terms of a natural religion. Liu Zhi (c.1660-c.1730) Chinese Muslim scholar writing in Chinese (Arabic “Han Kitab”, Chinese books); during early Qing, presented Islam to Manchus as consonant with Confucianism, e.g., his Tianfang Dianli dealing with ritual, comparing li with Muslim practice. Jean Gagnier (c. 1670-1740) Oxford Univ., De vita et rebus Mohammedis (1723), annotated Latin translation of chapters on Muhammad from Mukhtasar Ta’rikh a-Bashar by Abu ‘l-Fida (1273–1331); also La Vie de Mahomet (Amsterdam 1748), biography in French. Liu Chih (16wx-17yz) China, T’ien-fang Chih-sheng shi-lu ([1721-1724], 1779), [“True Annals of the Prophet of Arabia”]; I. Mason [t], The Arabian Prophet; A life of Mohammed from Chinese sources (Shanghai 1921).[3] Simon Ochley (1678-1720) England, Cambridge Univ., his History of the Saracens (1708, 1718) praises Islam at arm’s length. Voltaire [Francois-Marie Arouet] (1694–1778) French author, critic, anti-cleric, deist, wealthy speculator; his play Mahomet le prophete ou le fanatisme (1741) [t], invents scurrilous legends & attacks hypocrisy, (also being a hidden attack on the French ancien régime). George Sale (1697–1736), English lawyer, using Hinckelmann and Marracci, annotated and translated into English a well regarded The Koran (1734); member of the “Society for Promotion of Christian Knowledge”, proofread its Arabic New Testament (S.P.C.K. 1726). Miguel Casiri (1710-1780s), Syrian Maronite, Bibliotheca Arabico-Hispana Escurialensis (2 volumes, Madrid 1760-1770). Carsten Niebuhr (1733–1815) Germany, member of royal Danish expedition to Yemen, Beschreibung von Arabien (Kobenhavn 1772); Reisebeschreibung nach Arabien und andern umliegenden Landern (3 volumes, Kobenhavn 1774, 1778, Hamburg 1837). Silvestre de Sacy (1758–1838) Jewish French, his Grammaire arabe (2v., 1810); teacher of Champollion who read the Rosetta Stone. José Antonio Conde (1765–1820) Historia de la dominacion de los arabes en Espana (Madrid 1820-1821), pioneer work now depreciated. Ram Mohan Roy [Raja Ram Mohun Roy] (1772–1833), India (Kolkata, Bengal), early journalist, influential religious and social reformer, founder of Brahmo Samaj, his Tuhfat-ul-Muwahhidin [Gift of the Unitarians] (1803–1804), a book in Persian on, e.g., the unity of religions. Washington Irving (1783–1859) U.S., author, Minister to Spain 1842-1846, Chronicle of the Conquest of Granada (1829); Tales of the Alhambra (1832, 1851) where he lived several years; Mahomet and His Successors (New York: Putnam 1849) a popular, fair-minded biography based on translations from Arabic and on western authors, since edited (Univ.of Wisconsin 1970). Charles Mills (1788–1826) England, History of Mohammedanism (1818). Garcin de Tassy (1794–1878) France, L’Islamisme d’apre le Coran (Paris 1874), the religion based on a reading of the Qur’an. Yusuf Ma Dexin (1794–1874) Chinese (Yunnan) Muslim scholar and leader; first to translate the Qur’an into Chinese. A. P. Caussin de Perceval (1795–1871) Essai sur l’histoire des Arabes avant l’Islamisme (Paris 1847-1849), Arabia before Muhammad. => The [t] following a title indicates books translated into English. 1800 to 1900[edit] Gustav Leberecht Flügel (1802–1870), Germany, Al-Qoran: Corani textus Arabicus (Leipzig 1834), Arabic text for academics. Gustav Weil (1808–1889) Jewish German, Mohammed der Prophet (Stuttgart 1843); Biblische Legenden der Musel-manner (Frankfort 1845) [t]; Das Leben Mohammeds nach Mohammed ibn Ishak, bearbeitet von Abdel Malik ibn Hischam (Stuttgart 1864). John Medows Rodwell (1808–1900), English translation of The Koran, using derived chronological sequence of Suras. Pascual de Gayangos y Arce (1809–1897), Spanish Arabist, studied under de Sacy in Paris; translated al-Maqqari (d.1632) into English as History of the Mohammedan Dynasties of Spain (1840, 1843); Tratados de Legislación Musulmana (v.5, Mem.His.Esp. 1853). Abraham Geiger (1810–1874) German rabbi and scholar, major founder of Reform Judaism, his Was hat Mohammed aus dem Judenthume aufgenommen? (Bonn 1833) [t] restates and updates a perennial thesis (e.g., cf. L. Marracci). Aloys Sprenger (1813–1893) Austria, Das Leben und die Lehre des Mohammad (2nd edition, 3 volumes, Berlin 1869). Carl Paul Caspari (1814–1892) German, Christian convert from Judaism, Norwegian academic, Grammatica Arabica (1844–48), Latin. William Muir (1819–1905), Scotland, government official in India, The Life of Mohamet (London, 1861). Edward Rehatsek (1819–1891) Hungary, later India, first translation of Sirah Rasul Allah into English (deposited, 1898). Reinhart Dozy (1820–1883) Netherlands, Histoire des Musulmans d’Espagne jusqu’a la Conquete de l’Andalousie par les Almoravides (Leiden, 1861), 4 volumes; Recherches sur l’Histoire et la Littérature de l’Espagne pendant le moyen âge (1881). Richard Francis Burton (1821–1890) British, Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to al-Madinah and Mecca (2 vol., 1855). Ernest Renan (1823–1892) French, Catholic apostate, Histoire generale et system compare des langues semitiques (Paris 1863). Friedrich Max Müller (1823–1900) German philologist, comparative religion pioneer, Oxford Univ. professor, editor of 50 volume Sacred Books of the East, volumes 6 and 9 being the Qur’an translated by E. H. Palmer. es:Francisco Javier Simonet (1825-c.1897) Spanish Arabist, traditional partisan, Leyendas históricas árabes (Madrid 1858); Historia de los mozarabes de Espana (Madrid 1897-1903); controversial views, e.g., suggests that one-sided Muslim marriage law caused an insulation in the subject people that over generations fused their religious & lineage identities, hence focus put on limpio de sangre. Ludolf Krehl (1825–1901) Beitrage zur Muhammedanischen Dogmatik (Leipzig 1885). Alfred von Kremer (1828–1889) Austria, professor of Arabic at Wien, foreign service to Cairo, Egypt; Geschichte de herrschenden Ideen des Islams (Leipzig 1868); Culturgeschichte Streifzüge auf dem Gebiete des Islams (Leipzig 1873) [t]. Girish Chandra Sen (1836–1910) India, translated Muslim works into Bengali, including the Qur’an (1886); professor of Islam for the Brahmo Samaj, universalist Hindu reform society founded in 1828 by Ram Mohan Roy (1772–1833). es:Francisco Codera y Zaidín (1836–1917) Tratado numismática arábigo-español (Madrid 1879); founded Bibliotheca Arabico-Hispana. Michael Jan de Geoje (1836–1909) Dutch academic, led the editing of the Arabic text of Ta’rikh al-rasul wa’l muluk [History of Prophets and Kings] of the Persian al-Tabari (d. 923), in 14 volumes (Leiden: Brill 1879-1901). Theodor Nöldeke (1836–1930) Germany, well regarded philologist and academic, Das Leben Mohammeds (1863); Zur Grammatik de klassische Arabisch (1896); with Friedrich Schwally Geschichte des Qorans (Leipzig, 1909–1919, 2 volumes). Edward Henry Palmer (1840–1882), English; traveler in Arab lands; called to the bar in 1874; translated Qur’an for the S.B.E. (1880); killed in Egypt by desert ambush while with British military patrol. Ignazio Guidi (1844–1935) Italy, L’Arabe anteislamique (Paris 1921). Julius Wellhausen (1844–1918) Germany, Muhammed in Medina (Berlin 1882); Das Arabische Reich und sein Sturz (Berlin 1902); his Prolegomena zur Geschichte Israels (Berlin 1878, 1882) [t] presents studies using the “higher criticism” of the Bible. William Robertson Smith (1846–1894) Scotland, Kinship and Marriage in Early Arabia (Cambridge 1885); Lectures on the Religion of the Semites (1889), sought to locate ancient Judaism in its historical context; in his Old Testament studies influenced by Wellhausen. Italo Pizzi (1849–1920) L’Islamismo (Milan 1905). Ignaz Goldziher (1850–1921), Hungary, Die Zahiriten (Leipzig 1884); Muhammedanische Studien (2 volumes, Halle 1889-1890) [t] {vol.2 questions hadith}; Vorlesungen uber den Islam (Heidelberg 1910, 1925) [t]; Die Richtungen der islamischen Koranauslegung (Leiden 1920); well regarded Jewish scholar, admirer of Islam, e.g., writing that he felt fulfillment when praying with Muslims in a Cairo mosque. Herbert Udny Weitbrecht (1851−1937), The Teaching of the Qur’an with an Account of Its Growth and a Subjekt Index, (1919) Martijn Theodoor Houtsma (1851–1943) Netherlands, lead editor of Encyclopaedia of Islam (Leiden: E.J.Brill 1913-1938), 9 volumes; eclipsed by a new edition (1954–2002) of 11 volumes with index and supplements. Julián Ribera y Tarragó (1858–1934) Spain (Valencia), professor of Arabic, studies in mixed culture of al-Andalus (e.g., connections to the troubadours); El Cancionero de Abencuzmán (Madrid 1912); La musica de las Cantigas (Madrid 1922). David Samuel Margoliouth (1858–1940), Anglican, his father a Jewish convert, Mohammed and the Rise of Islam (London 1905, 1923); Relations between Arabs and Israelites prior to the Rise of Islam (1924); Table-talk of a Mesopotamian judge (1921, 1922, 2v). William St. Clair Tisdall (1859–1928) Anglican priest, linguist, traditional partisan, The Original Sources of the Quran (S.P.C.K. 1905). Edward G. Browne (1862–1926) English, A Literary History of Persia (4 volumes, 1902–1924). Henri Lammens (1862–1937) Flemish Jesuit, a modern partisan; Fatima et ls filles de Mahomet (Roma 1912); Le berceau de l’Islam (Roma 1914); L’Islam, croyances et institutions (Beyrouth 1926) [t]; L’Arabe Occidental avant l’Hegire (Beyrouth 1928). Henri Pirenne (1862–1935) Belgian historian, Mahomet et Charlemagne (Paris 1937) [t], how the Arab conquests disrupted Mediterranean trade, isolating the European economies which declined. Maurice Gaudefroy-Desmombynes (1862–1957) France, Le pelerinage a la Mekke (Paris 1923); Le monde musulman et byzantin jusqu’aux croisades (Paris 1931) with S.F.Platonov; Les institutions musulmanes (Paris 1946) [t]. Duncan Black MacDonald (1863–1943) Scotland; Hartford Seminary in U.S.; Development of Muslim Theology, Jurisprudence and Constitutional Theory (New York 1903); The Religious Attitude and Life in Islam (Chicago 1909). Friedrich Zacharias Schwally (1863–1919), Germany; student of Theodor Nöldeke; Ibraham ibn Muhammed el-Baihaqi Kitab el Mahdsin val Masdwi (Leipzig 1899-1902); Kitab al-mahasin vai-masavi (Gießen 1902). Thomas Walker Arnold (1864–1930) England, professor in India associating with Shibli Nomani & Muhammad Iqbal, later at London S.O.A.S.; The Caliphate (Oxford 1924); Painting in Islam. A study of the place of pictorial art in Muslim culture (1928); The Preaching of Islam (1929); Legacy of Islam (Oxford 1931) editor with A. Guillaume. Miguel de Unamuno (1864-1936) Spain, philosopher; embraced Spanish connection to Berber North Africa but not to the Arabs.[4] François Nau (1864–1913) Les chrétiens arabes en Mesopotamia et en Syrie au VIIe et VIIIe siècles (Paris 1933). William Ambrose Shedd (1865–1918) U.S., Presbyterian, Islam and the Oriental Churches: Their historical relations (1904). Marshall Broomhall (1866-1937) British, Protestant missionary to China, Islam in China. A neglected problem (1910). Theodor Juynboll (1866–1948) Handbuch des islamischen Gesetzes (Leipzig: Brill Harrassowitz 1910) on Islamic law. Samuel Marinus Zwemer (1867–1952) U.S., Dutch Reform missionary to Islam, later at Princeton, Islam. A Challenge to Faith (NY 1907); Law of Apostasy in Islam (1924). Leon Ostrorog, Comte (1867–1932) Poland, The Angora Reform (London 1927), on the “Law of Fundamental Organization” (1921) of republican Turkey transferring power from the Sultan to the Assembly; Pour la reforme de la justice ottomane (Paris 1912). Gertrude Bell (1868-1926) English, Persian Pictures (1894); Syria: The desert and the sown (1907); became a British political officer in Arab lands during World War I. Reynold Nicholson (1868–1945) English, The Mystics of Islam (1914); A Literary History of the Arabs (Cambridge Univ. 1930). Carl Brockelmann (1868–1956) Geschichte der arabischen Literatur (5 vol., Weimar & Leiden, 1898–1942), Geschichte der islamischen Volker und Staaten (Munchen 1939) [t]. Ramón Menéndez Pidal (1869-1968), Spain, elaborates Ribera and Asín. España, eslabón entre la cristiandad y el islam (1956) [t]. Leone Caetani (1869–1935) Italian nobleman, Annali dell’Islam (10 volumes, 1904–1926) reprint 1972, contains early Arabic sources. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (1869–1948) spiritual and independence leader in India, opposed caste divisions; prolific writer, teacher of satyagraha worldwide, influencing Martin Luther King; his letter to Mohammad Ali Jinnah of Sept. 11, 1944, stated “My life mission has been Hindu-Muslim unity… not to be achieved without the foreign ruling power being ousted.” Because of policies favorable to Islam, the mahatma was assassinated by a Hindu ultra-nationalist. Cf., McDonough, Gandhi’s responses to Islam (New Delhi 1994). Miguel Asín Palacios (1871–1944), Catholic priest, professor of Arabic, studied the mutuality of influence between Christian and Islamic spirituality (prompting vigorous response), Algazel (Zaragoza 1901); La escatologia musulmana en la Divina Comedia (Madrid 1923) [“t”] per influence on Dante of mi’raj literature; El Islam cristianizado. Estudio del sufismo a traves de las obras de Abenarabi de Murcia (Madrid 1931); Huellas del Islam (Madrid 1941) includes comparative articles on Tomas d’Aquino and Juan de las Cruz. De Lacy O’Leary (1872–1957) Bristol Univ. Arabic Thought and Its Place in History (1922, 1939); Comparative Grammar of the Semitic Languages (1923); Arabia before Muhammad (1927); How Greek Science passed to the Arabs (1949). Georg Graf (1875–1955) Germany, Geschichte der Christlichen Arabischen Literatur (Vatican 1944). Richard Bell (1876–1952) British, Origin of Islam in its Christian Environment (Edinburgh Univ. 1925). Arthur S. Tritton (1881–1973) The Caliphs and their Non-Muslim Subjects. A critical study of the Covenant of ‘Umar (Oxford 1930). Alphonse Mingana (1881–1937) Assyrian Christian (Iraq), former priest, religious historian, collected early Syriac and Arabic documents and books into the “Mingana Collection”. Julian Morgenstern (1881-197x) U.S., Rites of Birth, Marriage, Death and Kindred Occasions among the Semites (Cincinnati 1966). Arent Jan Wensinck (1882–1939) Dutch, Mohammed en de Joden te Medina (Amsterdam 1908) [t]; La pensee de Ghazzali (Paris 1940); Handworterbuch des Islam (1941) [t] with J. H. Kramers; from Syriac, Bar Hebraeus’s Book of the Dove (Leyden 1919). Louis Massignon (1883–1962) France, influenced Catholic-Islamic understanding per the Nostra aetate of Vatican II (1962–1965); a married priest (Orthodox [Arabic rite]), Essai sur les origines du lexique technique de la mystique musulmane (Paris 1922, 2nd ed. 1954) [t]; Passion de Husayn Ibn Mansur Hallaj (Paris 1973) [t]. José Ortega y Gasset (1883-1955) Spain, philosopher; like Unamuno opposed modern trend to incorporate into Spanish historiography the positive Islamic element. Abenjaldún nos revela el secreto (1934), about Ibn Khaldun.[5] Nicolas P. Aghnides (1883-19xx) Mohammedan Theories of Finance (Columbia Univ. 1916). Margaret Smith (1884–1970) Rabi’a the mystic and her fellow saints in Islam (Cambridge Univ. 1928); Studies in Early Mysticism in the Near and Middle East (1931) development of early Christian mysticism, of Islamic re Sufism, and a comparison. Seymour Gonne Vesey-Fitzgerald (1884-19xx), Muhammadan Law, an abridgement, according to its various schools (Oxford Univ. 1931); The Iraq Treaty, 1930 (London 1932). Tor Andrae (1885–1947), Sweden, Univ.of Uppsala, history of religion, comparative religion; Mohammed. Sein Leben und Sein Glaube (Göttingen 1932) [t]; I myrtenträdgarden: Studier i tidig islamisk mystik (Stockholm: Albert Bonniers Forlag 1947) [t]. Américo Castro (1885-1972) Spain, reinterpreted Spanish history by integrating Muslim and Jewish contributions. España en su historia: Cristianos, moros y judíos (1948) [t]; Sobre el nombre y quién de los españoles: cómo llegaron a serlo (1973). Philip Khuri Hitti (1886–1978) Lebanon, formative re Arabic studies in the U.S., Origins of the Islamic State (Columbia Univ. 1916) annotated translation of Kitab Futuh Al-Buldan of al-Baladhuri; History of Syria, including Lebanon and Palestine (1957). Shūmei Ōkawa (1886–1957) Japanese author activist; pan-Asian modern partisan, pro-India since 1913 (criticized per China by Gandhi in 1930s); indicted at Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal for his “clash of civilizations” view; translation of Qur’an into Japanese (1950). Giorgio Levi Della Vida (1886–1967) Jewish Italian, professor of semitic languages, Storia e religione nell’Oriente semitico (Roma 1924); Les Sémites et leur rôle das l’histoire religieuse (Paris 1938); anti-Fascist Italian politician in 1920s. Gonzangue Ryckmans (1887–1969) Belgium, Catholic priest, Louvain professor, epigraphy of pre-Islamic South Arabia; Les Religions Arabes preislamiques (Louvain 1951). Harry Austryn Wolfson (1887–1974) U.S., Harvard Univ., Philo. Foundations of Religious Philosophy in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (1947); The Philosophy of the Kalam (1976); Repercussions of the Kalam in Jewish Philosophy (1979). Alfred Guillaume (1888-1966) England, Life of Muhammad (Oxford 1955) annotated translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, an early “biography” of the prophet (as transmitted by Ibn Hisham); Legacy of Islam (Oxford 1931) co-editor with T. W. Arnold. es:Ángel González Palencia (1889–1949) Spanish Arabist, História de la España musulmana (Barcelona 1925, 3rd ed 1932); História de la literatura arábigo-española (Barcelona 1928, 1945); Moros y cristianos in España medieval. Estudios históricos-literarios (1945). Arthur Jeffery (1892–1959) American University at Cairo 1921-1938, Materials for the history of the text of the Quran (Leiden 1937-1951); Foreign Vocabulary in the Quran (Baroda 1938); A Reader on Islam (1962). Barend ter Haar (1892–1941) Dutch, Beginselen en Stelsel van het Adatrecht (Groningen Batavia 1939) [t], on Adat law in Indonesia. Olaf Caroe (1892-1981) a former governor of the area, The Pathans. 550 B.C. – A.D. 1957 (London 1958). Freya Stark (1893-1993) English, Valley of the Assassins (1934) about NW Iran; The Southern Gates of Arabia. A journey in the Hadhramaut (1936); A winter in Arabia (1939). Willi Heffening (1894-19xx) Germany, Das islamische fremdenrecht zu den islamisch-fränkischen staatsverträgen. Eine rechtshistorischen studie zum fiqh (Hanover 1925). Évariste Lévi-Provençal (1894-1956) France, Histoire de l’Espagne musulmane, 711-1031 (3 volumes, Paris-Leiden 1950-1953). E. A. Belyaev (1895–1964) Russia (USSR), Araby, Islam i arabskii Khalifat (Moskva, 2nd ed 1966) [t]. Henri Terrasse (1895–1971) French Arabist, Histoire du Maroc (2 volumes, Casablanca 1949-1950) [t]; Islam d’Espagne (Paris 1958). Morris S. Seale (1896-1993) Muslim Theology. A Study of Origins with Reference to the Church Fathers (London: Luzac 1964). Gerald de Gaury (1897-1984) English soldier, Rulers of Mecca (New York, c.1950). José López Ortiz (1898–1992) Spain, Arabist with interest in legal history; article on fatwas of Granada; Los Jurisconsultos Musulmanes (El Escorial, 1930); Derecho musulman (Barcelona, 1932); a Catholic priest, later made Bishop. Enrico Cerulli (1898–1988) Italy, Documenti arabi per la storia nell’ Etiopia (Roma 1931); his two works re Dante and Islam per M. Asín: Il “Libro della scala” e la question delle fonti arabo-spagnole della Divina commedia (Vatican 1949), Nuove ricerche sul “Libro della Scala” e la conoscenza dell’Islam in Occidente (Vatican 1972). => The [t] following a title indicates books translated into English. 1900 to 1950s[edit] Claude L. Pickens (1900–1985), professor of Chinese at Harvard University, son-in-law of S. M. Zwemer, Annotated Bibliography of Literature on Islam in China (Hankow: Society of Friends of the Moslems in China 1950). Josef Schacht (1902–1969) France (Alsace), Islamic legal history, Der Islam (Tübingen 1931); Origins of Muhammadan Jurisprudence (Oxford 1950) influential work, a legal historical critique (following, e.g., Goldziher) re the early oral transmission of Hadith & founding jurists; Introduction to Islamic Law (Oxford 1964); Legacy of Islam (2nd ed., Oxford 1974) edited with C. E. Bosworth. J. Spencer Trimingham (1904-wxyz) English; Islam in Ethiopia (Oxford 1952), a history and current sociology; Sufi Orders in Islam (Oxford 1971); Christianity among the Arabs in Pre-Islamic Times (Beirut 1990). Erwin Rosenthal (1904-wxyz) German Jewish, Political Thought in Medieval Islam (1958); Judaism and Islam (1961). Arthur John Arberry (1905–1969) English, The Koran Interpreted (1955), a translation that attempts to capture the medium of the original Arabic; various other translations; Sufism. An Account of the Mystics of Islam (1950). Emilio Garcia Gomez (1905–1995) Spain, Arabist, poet; Poemas arabigoandaluces (Madrid 1940); Poesia arabigoandaluza (Madrid 1952); his theories, e.g., on origins of the muwashshahat (popular medieval strophic verse); his admired translations from Arabic. Henri Laoust (1905-wxyz) France, Essai sur les doctrines sociales et politiques de Taki-d-Din Ahmad Taimiya, cononiste ‘anbalite (Le Caire 1939); Le traite de droit public d’Ibn Taimiya [al-Siyasah al-Shariyah] (Beirut 1948); Le politique de Gazali (Paris 1970). Geo Widengren (1907-wxyz) Sweden, comparative religion; Muhammad, The Apostle of God, and His Ascension (Uppsala 1955). Frithjof Schuon (1907–1998) German Swiss; of Traditionalist School (sophia perennis or “western” sufi), its co-founder with Rene Guenon and Ananda Coomaraswamy, influenced Seyyed Hossein Nasr; De l’unite transcendente des religions (Paris 1948) [t]; Comprendre l’Islam (Paris 1961) [t]; Regards sur le Mondes Anciens (Paris 1967) [t]. Henry Corbin (1907–1978) France, former Catholic, associated with Eranos Institute (inspired by Carl Jung), an academic re history of religions, idiosyncratic, long a resident of Tehran; Les Motifs zoroastriens dans la philosophie de Suhrawardi (Tehran 1948); Avicenne et la recit vissionaire (Tehran 1954) [t]; L’imagination creatrice dans le soufisme d’Ibn ‘Arabi (Zurich 1955-56, Paris 1958) [t]; Terre celeste et corps de resurrection: de l’Iran mazdeen a l’Iran shi’ite (Paris 1960) [t]. Neal Robinson (1908-1983) academic, Christ in Islam and Christianity (SUNY 1991), study of Islamic commentaries and interpretations. James Norman Dalrymple Anderson (1908–1994) U.K., Islamic law at S.O.A.S., Islamic Law in Africa (H.M.S.O., 1954); Islamic Law in the Modern World (New York University, 1959); Law Reform in the Muslim World (Athlone, 1976). Titus Burckhardt (1908–1984) German Swiss, early contact with Traditionalist School and Rene Guenon; Du Soufisme (Lyon 1951) [t]; Die Maurische Kultur in Spanien (Munchen 1970) [t]; great nephew of Jacob Burckhardt. Abraham Katsh (1908–1998) U.S., Jewish academic, Judaism in Islam. Biblical and Talmudic backgrounds of the Koran and its Commentators, Sura I & II (New York 1954), reprinted 1962 as Judaism and the Koran. William Montgomery Watt (1909–2006) Scottish Episcopal priest, Arabist, Muhammad at Mecca (Oxford 1953), Muhammad at Medina (Oxford, 1956); with P. Cachia A History of Islamic Spain (Edinburgh 1965); Formative Period of Islamic Thought (1998). Claude Cahen (1909-1991) France, Introduction a l’histoire du monde musulman medieval, VIIe-XVIe siecle (Paris 1983). Martin Lings (1909–2005) Sufi scholar, Muhammed. His life based on the earliest sources (1983); Secret of Shakespeare (1984). Józef Bielawski (1910–1997) Uniwersytet Warszawski, former Polish diplomat to Turkey; Historia lieratury arabskiej: zarys (Wroclaw 1968); translation of Qur’an into Polish (Warszawa 1986), improving on that of J.M.T.Buczacki (1858). Jacques Berque (1910 Algeria – 1995 France), pied-noir scholar who early favored Maghribi independence, he retained his ties to Africa; Moroccan Berber ethnology: Les structures sociales du Haut Atlas (1955); Arab renaissance: Les Arabes d’hier a demain (1960) [t]. Geoffrey Parrinder (1910-2005) comparative religion, Methodist minister, Jesus in the Qur’an (London 1965), reprint Oneworld 1995. Wilfred Thesiger (1910–2003) England, born and home in Ethiopia; Arabian Sands (New York 1959), on late 1940s explorations by camel of the “empty quarter” Ar-Rab’ Al-Khali; The Marsh Arabs (London 1964), on the rural people of southern Iraq. Ann K. S. Lambton (1912-2008) English, State and Government in medieval Islam (1981); Continuity and Change in medieval Persia. Aspects of administrative, economic and social history, 11th-14th century (1988). Giulio Basetti-Sani (1912-wxyz) Italy, Mohammed et Saint François (Ottawa 1959); Per un dialogo cristiano-musulmano (Milano 1969). Kenneth Cragg (1913-2012) U.S., The Call of the Minaret (Oxford 1956; 2d Orbis 1985); The Arab Christian (Westm./Knox 1991). George Hourani (1913–1984) Lebanese English, Averroes. On the Harmony of Religion and Philosophy (London 1961) annotated translation of Kitab fasl al maqal of Ibn Rushd; Reason and Tradition in Islamic Ethics (Cambridge Univ. 1985); Arab Seafaring in the Indian Ocean in ancient and medieval times (Princeton Univ. 1951, 1995). Uriel Heyd [Heydt] (1913–1968) Jewish German, moved to Israel in 1934, Studies in old Ottoman criminal Law (Oxford 1973). Robert Charles Zaehner (1913–1974) religious studies at Oxford, The Comparison of Religions (London 1958); Hindu and Muslim Mysticism (London 1960); Concordant Discord: The Interdependence of Faiths (Oxford 1970). Franz Rosenthal (1914-wxyz) Fortleben der Antike im Islam (Zurich 1965); Muslim intellectual and social history (Variorum 1990). Toshihiko Izutsu (1914–1993) Japan, Ethico-Religious Concepts in the Qur’an (1959, 1966); Sufism and Taoism (Berkeley 1984). Igor Mikhailovich Diakonov (1914–1999) USSR/Russia, historian, linguistics, Semitokhamitskie iazyki [Semito-Hamitic languages] (Moskva 1965) [t]; Afraziiskie iazyki [Afrasian languages] (Moskva 1988) [t]; both on history and description of Afroasiatic languages. Joseph Greenberg (1915–2001) U.S., Stanford Univ., linguistic anthropology; in historical linguistics use of his mass lexical comparison to establish language families; Languages of Africa (1966) coined “Afroasiatic” to replace “Hamito-Semitic” for it includes as equal branches Ancient Egyptian, Berber, Chadic, and Cushitic, as well as Semitic; also his recent book on Eurasiatic; cf. Nostratic. Albert Hourani (1915–1993) Lebanese English, Minorities in the Arab World (Oxford 1947); Arabic Thought in the Liberal Age, 1798-1939 (1962) on the Arab nahda [revival]; Political Society in Lebanon (MIT 1986); A History of the Arab Peoples (1991, Harvard 2002); brother of George Hourani. Maxime Rodinson (1915–2004) Jewish French Marxist, Mahomet (Paris 1961) [t] as understood with empathy by an atheist; Islam et capitalisme (Paris 1966) [t]; Israel et le refus arabe (Paris 1968). Bernard Lewis (1916->) Jewish English, prolific author, lately a modern partisan insider, Arabs in History (1950); Muslim Discovery of Europe (1982, 2001); What went Wrong? The Clash between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East (2002). George Makdisi (1920–2002) U.S., Islamic studies, Rise of Colleges. Institutions of Learning in Islam and the West (Edinburgh Univ. 1981); Rise of Humanism in Classical Islam and the Christian West (Edinburgh Univ. 1990). Ehsan Yar-Shater (1920->) Editor of encyclopedia Danishnamah-i Iran va Islam (10 volumes, Teheran 1976-1982); editor of History of al-Tabari [re the Ta’rikh al-rusul wa’l-muluk] (39 volumes, SUNY c1985-c1999); editor of Encyclopædia Iranica (Costa Mesa: Mazda 1992->); History of Medicine in Iran (New York 2004). Marshall Hodgson (1922–1968) U.S., professor, Quaker, The Venture of Islam (3 volumes, Univ.of Chicago [1958], 1961, 1974); The Order of the Assassins (The Hague: Mouton 1955); Rethinking World History. Essays on Europe, Islam… (Cambridge Univ. 1993). Annemarie Schimmel (1922–2003) Germany, studied Sufi texts in Turkey, Die Bildersprache Dschelaladdin Rumi (Walldorf 1949); Mevlana Celalettin Rumi’nin sark ve garpta tesirleri (Ankara 1963); Mystical Dimensions of Islam (Univ.of N.Carolina 1975). Sabatino Moscati (1922->) Italy, Semitic studies, Le antiche civilita semitiche (Milano 1958) [t]; I Fenici e Cartagine (Torino 1972). Bogumil Witalis Andrzejewski (1922–1994), Poland, linguistics at S.O.A.S. in London; Islamic literature in Somalia (Indiana Univ. 1983); formulator of Latin alphabet for Somali; also work in Oromo, another East Cushitic language, of the Afroasiatic language family. Donald Leslie (1922->) Australia, Islamic Literature in China, late Ming and early Ch’ing (1981); Islam in Traditional China (1986). Ernest Gellner (1925–1995) London Sch.of Econ., Saints of the Atlas (London 1969); Muslim Society: Essays (Cambridge 1981). Irfan Shahid, (1926->) Georgetown Univ., Dumbarton Oaks; Byzantium and the Arabs (1984–1995) multi-vol., pre-Islamic politics. Leonard Binder (1927->) Univ.of Chicago, Religion and Politics in Pakistan (Univ.of California 1961). Francis E. Peters (1927->) U.S., former Jesuit; Aristotle Arabus (Leiden: Brill 1968); Jerusalem and Mecca (NYU 1986); Muhammad and the Origins of Islam (SUNY 1994); Arabs and Arabia on the Eve of Islam (Ashgate 1999). John K. Cooley (1927-2008) U.S. journalist, long time coverage of Arab world, An Alliance against Babylon (Univ.of Michigan 2006); Unholy Wars. Afghanistan, America and International Terrorism (2001); Baal, Christ, and Mohammed. Religion and Revolution in North Africa (1965); collaboration with E. W. Said (2002). Fredrik Barth (1928->) Political Leadership among the Swat Pathans (Univ.of London 1959). Aram Ter-Ghevondyan (1928–1988), Armenian historian; The Arab Emirates in Bagratid Armenia (Yerevan, 1965) [t], historical, political, and social study on the Bagratuni Kingdom of Armenia (885-1045) and its relations with Byzantium and the Arab Emirates; Armenia and the Arab Caliphate (Армения и apaбcкий Халифат) (Yerevan, 1977). Speros Vryonis (1928->) U.S., U.C.L.A., The Decline of Medieval Hellenism in Asia Minor and the Process of Islamization from the Eleventh through the Fifteenth Century (Univ. California 1971); Studies on Byzantium, Seljuks and Ottomans (Malibu 1981). John Wansbrough (1928–2002) U.S., Islamic studies at S.O.A.S., a major reinterpretation of origins, utilizing Wellhausen higher criticism applied to Islam, Quranic Studies (Oxford 1977), Sectarian Milieu (Oxford 1978), books which sparked a traditionalist reaction. Noel J. Coulson (1928–1986) U.K., Islamic law at S.O.A.S., History of Islamic Law (Edinburgh Univ. 1964); Conflict and Tensions in Islamic Jurisprudence (Univ.of Chicago 1969); Succession in the Muslim Family (Cambridge Univ. 1971); Commercial Law in the Gulf States: The Islamic Legal Tradition (Graham & Trotman 1984). J. Hoeberichts (1929->) Dutch, Franciscus en de Islam (Assen: Van Gorcum 199x) [t]; formerly a theology professor in Karachi. Wilferd Madelung (1930->) Germany, The Succession to Muhammad (Cambridge Univ. 1997); studies on the Shia. Jacob Neusner (1932->) U.S., Jewish theologian, Comparing Religions through Law: Judaism and Islam (1999) with T.Sonn; Judaism and Islam in Practice (1999) editor, with T.Sonn & J.E.Brockopp; Three Faiths, One God (2003) with B. Chilton & W. Graham. Edward W. Said (1935–2003) Palestine, Christian, academic, Columbia Univ., modern partisan; Orientalism (New York 1978), a work often cited & easy to exaggerate; collaborations with Christopher Hitchens (1988), Noam Chomsky (1999), John K. Cooley (2002). William Chittick (c.193x->) U.S., collaborations with Seyyed Hossein Nasr and Allameh Tabatabaei in Iran; A Shi’ite Anthology (SUNY 1981); Sufi Path of Love (SUNY 1983) text and commentary on Rumi; Sufi Path of Knowledge (SUNY 1989) on Ibn Arabi; Imaginal Worlds. Ibn al-‘Arabi and the Problem of Religious Diversity (SUNY 1994). Sachiko Murata (c.193x->), Japan, Tao of Islam. A sourcebook on gender relationships in Islamic thought (SUNY 1992); Chinese Gleams of Sufi Light (SUNY 2000) with her translations from Chinese, and those from Persian by W. Chittick, her spouse. Sami Zubaida (1937->) Univ.of London, Islam, the People and the State (1993); Law and Power in the Islamic World (I.B.Taurus 2003). Farhad Daftary (1938->) Inst. of Isma’ili Studies, London, The Isma’ilis: their history and doctrines (1990). Richard E. Rubenstein (1938->) U.S., professor of conflict resolution, Alchemists of Revolution. Terrorists in the modern world (1987); Aristotle’s Children. How Christians, Muslims, & Jews rediscovered ancient wisdom & illuminated the Dark Ages (2003). Robert Simon (1939->) Hungary, Meccan Trade and Islam. Problems of origin and structure (Budapest 1989); Qur’an translation (1987). Michael Cook (1940->) English, Studies in the Origins of Early Islamic Culture and Tradition (2004); with P. Crone, Hagarism (1977). Roy Parviz Mottahedeh (1940->) U.S., Loyalty and Leadership in an Early Islamic Society (Princeton University Press 1980), :The Mantle of the Prophet (Simon and Schuster, 1985). John L. Esposito (1940->) U.S., Islam. The Straight Path (Oxford 1988); editor-in-chief Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern Islamic World (4 volumes, 1995); Islam and Civil Society (European Univ. Inst. 2000). Malise Ruthven (1942->) Scotland, Islam in the World (Oxford Univ. 1984); Fury for God. Islamist attack on America (Granta 2002). Mark R. Cohen (1943->) Princeton Univ., Jewish Self-Government in Medieval Egypt (1980); Under Crescent & Cross (1994). William A. Graham (1943->) U.S., Harvard University, “Divine Word and Prophetic Word in Early Islam” (Mouton, 1977); “Beyond the Written Word” (Cambridge, 1986); “Islamic and Comparative Religious Studies” (Ashgate, 2010) Gerald R. Hawting (1944->) with Wansbrough at S.O.A.S., The First Dynasty of Islam: The Umayyad Caliphate AD 661-750 (1986, 2000); The Idea of Idolatry and the Rise of Islam: From polemic to history (Cambridge Univ. 1999). Karen Armstrong (1944->) English author, former nun; Muhammad, a Biography of the Prophet (San Francisco, 1993); Jerusalem: one city, three faiths (1997); A History of God (New York, 1999); “Islam: A Short History” (2002). Fred M. Donner (1945->) U.S., Narratives of Islamic Origins: The Beginnings of Islamic Historical Writings (1998). Patricia Crone (1945->) Denmark, professor in England & U.S., a modern partisan, God’s Rule : Government and Islam (New York 2004), on political thought; Meccan Trade and the Rise of Islam (1989); Roman, Provincial and Islamic Law (Cambridge Univ. 1987), as sources of Islamic jurisprudence ; with M. Cook, Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World (Cambridge Univ. 1977) following Wansbrough, sets forth the thesis (previously marginal, seldom explicit) that a multivalent sect of Judaic dissenters predated Muhammad and contributed to the Qur’an; not reprinted, Hagarism is largely rejected though cited. Daniel Pipes (1949->) U.S., Hoover Inst., historian, modern partisan; In the Path of God: Islam and Political Power (1983, 2002). Norman Calder (1950–1998) Studies in Early Muslim Jurisprudence (Oxford 1993), reasoned analysis of early Islamic legal texts following Wansbrough (1928–2002), Schacht (1902–1969), Goldziher (1850–1921). Carl Ernst (1950->) Islamic studies, Univ.of N.Carolina, Eternal Garden: Mysticism, History and Politics at a South Asian Sufi Center (1993); Shambhala Guide to Sufism (1997); Following Muhammad. Rethinking Islam in the contemporary world (2003). D. M. Varisco (1951->) U.S., Medieval Agriculture and Islamic Science: The Almanac of a Yemeni Sultan (Univ.of Washington 1994). Maria Rosa Menocal (1953-1912) U.S., her The Arabic Role in Medieval Literary History (Univ.of Pennsylvania 1987). Kim Hodong (1954->) Korea, Holy War in China. Muslim Rebellion and State in Chinese Central Asia 1864-1877 (Stanford U., 2004). => The [t] following a title indicates books translated into English. Chronological by date of publication[edit] Austin Kennett England, Bedouin Justice. Law and Custom among the Egyptian Bedouin (Cambridge Univ. 1925). David Santillana Italy, Instituzioni di Diritto musulmano, malichita (Roma 1926, 1938), 2 volumes, on Islamic law, Maliki school. Chin Chi-t’ang China, Chung-kuo hui-chiao shih yen-chiu [Studies in the Histsory of Chinese Islam] (1935). Ugo Monneret de Villard Italian academic, Lo Studio dell’ Islam in Europa nel XII e nel XIII secolo (Vatican 1944). José Muñoz Sendino Spanish academic, La Escala de Mahoma (Madrid 1949), on mi’raj literature re Dante and Islam per M. Asín. Jacques Ryckmans Belgium, Leuven Univ. professor, L’institution monarchique en Arabie meridionale avant l’Islam (Louvain 1951); Textes du Yemen antique (Louvain-la-Neuve 1994); nephew of Gonzangue Ryckmans. Miguel Cruz Hernandez, Univ.of Salamanca, Filosofia Hispano-musulmana (Madrid 1957), 2 volumes. Joseph Chelhod Introduction a la Sociologie de l’Islam. De l’animisme a l’universalisme (Paris 1958). Norman Daniel Islam and the West. The making of an image (Edinburgh Univ. 1960). Jean Jacques Waardenburg L’Islam dans le miroir de l’occident (Paris 1962), cultural review of various western scholars of Islam: Goldziher, Hurgronje, Becker, Macdonald, Massignon. Farhadt J. Ziadeh, University of Washington, Lawyers, the rule of law & liberalism in modern Egypt (1968). James T. Monroe U.S., Univ.of California at Berkeley; Islam and the Arabs in Spanish Scholarship (Leiden: E. J. Brill 1970); Hispano-Arabic Poetry (Univ.of Calif. 1974, reprint Gorgias 2004); with Benjamin M. Liu, Ten Hispano-Arabic Strophic Songs (U.C. 1989). Abraham L. Udovitch U.S., Partnership and Profit in Medieval Islam (Princeton Univ. 1970). Cristobal Cuevas El pensaminto del Islam. Contenido e Historia. Influencia en la Mistica espanola (Madrid 1972). Nilo Geagea Lebanese priest, Maria nel messagio coranico (Roma 1973) [t], study of texts and of a meeting point between religions. Victor Segesvary Swiss, L’Islam et la Reforme (Univ.de Genève 1973). Federico Corriente Spain, Las mu’allaqat: antologia y panorama de Arabia preislamica (Madrid: Instituto Hispano-arabe de cultura 1974), annotated translation of well-known collection of popular poetry in Arabia prior to Muhammad. Hava Lazarus-Yafeh, Hebrew Univ.of Jerusalem, her Studies in Al-Ghazzali (Jerusalem 1975); Intertwined Worlds. Medieval Islam and Bible Criticism (Princeton Univ. 1992); Islam-Yahadut: Yahadut-Islam (Tel Aviv 2003). Bat Ye’or (Gisele Orebi Littman), British author, Jewish refugee (in 1958 thousands expelled by Egypt as reprisal for Lavon Affair); her Hebrew pen name “Daughter of the Nile”; modern partisan; Le Dhimmi (Genève 1980) [t]; Les Chretientes d’Orient entre Jihad et Dhimmitude (Paris 1991) [t]; Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis (2006). G. W. Bowersock U.S., Princeton Univ., Roman Arabia (Harvard Univ. 1983), Nabataea (now Jordan) to 4th century. William Chittick U.S., SUNY Stony Brook, Sufi Path of Love. Spiritual teachings of Rumi (1983); Sufi Path of Knowledge. Ibn Arabi’s Metaphysics of Imagination (1989); with Sachiko Murata and Tu Weiming, The Sage Learning of Liu Zhi: Islamic Thought in Confucian Terms (2009). Antoine El-Gemayel, Lebanon, The Lebanese Legal System 2 vol. (International Law Inst., Georgetown Univ. 1985), editor. Luce López-Baralt Puerto Rico academic, her San Juan de la Cruz y el Islam (Colegio de Mexico, Univ.de Puerto Rico 1985; Madrid 1990); Huellas del Islam en la literatura espanola (Madrid 1985, 1989) [t]; influenced by Miguel Asin Palacios. Joseph Cuoq France, L’Islam en Ethiopie des origines au XVIe siecle (Paris 1981); Islamisation de la Nubie Chretienne (Paris 1986). George E. Irani Lebanon, U.S., The Papacy and the Middle East. The Role of the Holy See in the Arab-Israeli Conflict, 1962-1984 (Univ.of Notre Dame 1986), e.g., the effect of Vatican II on Church policy. Lisa Anderson U.S. academic, The State and Social Transformation in Tunisia and Libya, 1830-1980 (Princeton Univ. 1986). David Stephen Powers Studies in Qur’an and Hadith. The Formation of the Islamic Law of Inheritance (Univ.of California 1986). David B. Burrell U.S., Knowing the Unknowable God: Ibn-Sina, Maimonides, Aquinas (Univ.of Notre Dame 1986). Masataka Takeshita Japan, Ibn ‘Arabi’s Theory of the Perfect Man and its Place in the History of Islamic Thought (Tokyo 1987). Heribert Busse, Univ.of Kiel, Theologischen Beziehungen des Islams zu Judentum und Christentum (Darmstadt 1988) [t], which discusses Muhammad, as well as the narratives found in the Qur’an about the Old Testament and the New Testament. R. Stephen Humphreys U.S., Islamic History: a framework for inquiry (Minneapolis 1988); Tradition and innovation in the study of Islamic history. The evolution of North Armerican scholarship since 1960 (Tokyo 1998). Jean-François Breton, L’Arabie heureuse au temps de la reine de Saba: Viii-I siècles avant J.-C. (Paris 1988) [t]. Claude Addas France, her Ibn ‘Arabi ou La quete du Soufre Rouge (Paris: Editions Gallimard 1989) [t]. Julian Baldick, Univ. of London, Mystical Islam (1989); Black God. Afroasiatic roots of Jewish, Christian, & Muslim religions (1998). Harald Motzki Germany, Die Anfange der islamischen Jurisprudenz (Stuttgart 1991) [t], by his review of early legal texts, provides a moderate challenge to Schacht’s criticism of Hadith & the origins of Islamic law. Jacob Lassner, Northwestern Univ.; Demonizing the Queen of Sheba. Boundaries of gender and culture in postbiblical Judaism and medieval Islam (Univ.of Chicago 1993). Haim Gerber Hebrew Univ.of Jerusalem, State, Society and Law in Islam. Ottoman Law in Comparative Perspective (SUNY 1994). Brannon M. Wheeler (1965->) U.S., Applying the Canon in Islam. The Authorization and Maintenance of Interpretive Reasoning in Hanafi Scholarship (SUNY 1996). G. H. A. Juynboll Dutch, Studies on the Origin and Uses of Islamic Hadith (“Variorum” 1996). Mehrzad Boroujerdi U.S., Iranian Intellectuals and the West. The tormented triumph of nativism (Syracuse University 1996), includes clerical and lay religious thought, with critical profiles of several 20th-century academic writers. Michael Dillon, China’s Muslims (Oxford Univ. 1996); China’s Muslim Hui Community. Migration, Settlement, and Sects (London 1999). Malika Zeghal western academic, Institut d’Etudes Politiques (Paris), Gardiens de l’Islam. Les oulemas d’al-Azhar dans l’Egypte contemporaine (Paris 1996); Les islamistes morocains: le defi a la monarchie (Paris 2005); currently at Univ.of Chicago. Robert G. Hoyland Oxford Univ., Seeing Islam as Others Saw It. A Survey and Evaluation of Christian, Jewish, and Zoroastrian Writings on early Islam (Darwin 1997); Arabia and the Arabs: From the Bronze Age to the Coming of Islam (Routledge 2001). Christopher Melchert U.S., The Formation of the Sunni Schools of Law (New York: Brill 1999); Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (2006), re Hanbali. Christoph Luxenberg (a pseudonym), Die Syro-Aramäische Lesart des Koran: Ein Beitrag zur Entschlüssenlung de Koransprache (Berlin 2000, 2007), employs historic Aramaic to elucidate the Arabic texts. Herbert Berg, Univ.of N.Carolina, Philosophy & Religion, The Development of Exegesis in Early Islam. The Debate over authenticity of Muslim literature from the formative period (Routledge/Curzon 2000). Knut S. Vikor, Univ.of Bergen, Norway; Between God and the Sultan. A History of Islamic Law (Oxford Univ. 2005), a fruitful synthesis of much resent scholarship; Sufi and Scholar on the Desert Edge (1995). Benjamin Jokisch, Islamic Imperial Law. Harun-Al-Rashid’s Codification Project (Berlin: Walter de Gruyter 2007) restates early Islamic legal history re law reform by Abbasid Caliphate (Baghdad, c.780-798), including reception of Roman law via Byzantine Empire, drafting a code, & centralized judiciary, followed by triumph of a vigorous opposition led by orthodox jurists & rise of legal theory; Islamisches Recht in Theorie und Praxis – Analyse einiger kaufrechtlicher Fatwas von Taqi’d-Din Ahmad b. Taymiyya (Berlin: K.Schwarz 1996). Timur Kuran, Duke Univ., The Long Divergence. How Islamic law held back the Middle East (Princeton Univ. 2011); Islam and Mammon: The economic predicaments of Islamism (Princeton Univ. 2004). => The [t] following a title indicates books translated into English. Other and Incomplete: alphabetical[edit] Akbar [Jalaluddin Muhammad Akbar] (1542–1605), Mughul emperor; based chieflly on Islam and Hinduism he founded a court religion Din-i-Ilahi, which did not flourish following the end of his reign. Báb [Sayyid Ali Muhammad] (1819–1850), Iran; he proclaimed prophethood and, in succession to the three Abrahamic faiths including Islam, initiated a new religion which continues as the Baha’i. Juan Cole, American Baha’i, contemporary academic and commentator on Islam. Mircea Eliade, Romania, U.S., late professor of comparative religions, University of Chicago. Cornell Fleischer, U.S., Kanuni Suleyman Prof. of Ottoman & Mod. Turkish Studies, Dept. of Nr. E. Lang. & Civil., U. of Chicago. H. A. R. Gibb (1895-1971), British historian of the Arabs and Islam. Betty Kelen, U.S., U.N. editor, author, Muhammad, The Messenger of God Martin Kramer (1954->), Israel, modern partisan, Wash. Inst. for Near East Policy; Shalem Center; Harvard University. Richard Landes, U.S., Boston University, modern partisan. Franklin Lewis, U.S., Assoc. Prof. of Persian Lang. & Lit., Dept. of Near Eastern Lang. & Civil., U. of Chicago. Elijah Muhammad [Elijah Poole] (1897–1975), U.S., started the Nation of Islam movement and proclaimed prophethood. Pai Shou-i, China, Chung-kuo I-ssu-lan shih kang-yao [Essentials of the History of Chinese Islam] (19xy). Andrew Rippin, Britain, Canada, University of Victoria. A. Holly Shissler, U.S., prof. of Ottoman & Early Turkish Republican History, Dept. of Nr. E. Lang. & Civil., U. of Chicago. Srđa Trifković, Serbian-American journalist, political analyst, modern partisan; author, The Sword of the Prophet. John Woods, U.S., Prof. of Iranian & Central Asian History, Dept. of Near Eastern Lang. & Civil., Univ. of Chicago. Malcolm X (1925-1965), U.S., minister-politician, former black Muslim, black nationalist leader; Muslim hadji. David S. Powers, Islamic Legal Interpretation. Muftis and their fatwas (1996); Dispensing Justice in Islam. Qadis and their judgments (2005). Claudia Liebeskind, Three Sufi traditions in South Asia in modern times (1998). Angelika Neuwirth, German Islamic studies scholar, Arabische Literatur. Postmodern (2004, t=2010); Scripture, Poetry and the Making of a Community (2015). Adam Gaiser, medieval Islamic studies, esp. Oman, Muslims, Scholars, Soldiers. The origin and elaboration of Ibadi Imanate traditions (2010). Rudolph Ware, The Walking Qur’an. Islamic education, embodied knowledge, and history in West Africa (2014). => The [t] following a title indicates books translated into English. Reference notes[edit] Jump up ^ Many general and specific reference sources were used for the very wide variety of authors herein. The general sources employed include: Bearman, Bianquis, Bosworth, van Donzel, & Heinrichs (editors), Encyclopaedia of Islam, 2nd Edition., 12 vols. (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1960-2005); Brandon (editor), Dictionary of Comparative Religion (New York: Scribners 1970); Norman Daniel, Islam and the West (Edinburgh Univ. 1958); John L. Esposito, Oxford Dictionary of Islam (Oxford Univ. 2003); Gibb & Kramers (editors), Shorter Encyclopaedia of Islam (Leiden: Brill 1953; Cyril Glassé, The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam (San Francisco: HarperCollins 1989). Jump up ^ The entries usually include bibliographic citations to works of the authors. These also may serve as reference sources for further inquiry. Jump up ^ S. Munro-Hay, Aksum (Edinburgh Univ. 1991) at 92. Jump up ^ J. Monroe, Islam and the Arabs in Spanish scholarship (1970) at 247-248, 251. Jump up ^ J. Monroe, Islam and the Arabs in Spanish scholarship (1970) at 248-251. See also[edit] Orientalism Middle Eastern studies External links[edit] Booknotes interview with Karen Armstrong on Islam: A Short History, September 22, 2000. Booknotes interview with Bernard Lewis on What Went Wrong?, December 30, 2001. Booknotes interview with Caryle Murphy on Passion for Islam: Shaping the Modern Middle East—The Egyptian Experience, November 3, 2002. Booknotes interview with Stephen Schwartz on The Two Faces of Islam: The House of Sa’ud from Tradition to Terror, February 2, 2003. Categories: Non-Muslim Islamic scholarsOrientalistsNon-Islamic Islam studies literatureIslam and other religions Navigation menu Not logged inTalkContributionsCreate accountLog inArticleTalkReadEditView history Search Go Main page Contents Featured content Current events Random article Donate to Wikipedia Wikipedia store Interaction Help About Wikipedia Community portal Recent changes Contact page Tools What links here Related changes Upload file Special pages Permanent link Page information Wikidata item Cite this page Print/export Create a book Download as PDF Printable version Languages Add links This page was last modified on 4 January 2016, at 21:00. Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. By using this site, you agree to the Terms of Use and Privacy
  44. Po,

    Really?

    SMH.

    First. Your website/link is not working.

    Second, where is the Wikipedia link/article that you copied and pasted from? You list people, including Ibn Warraq, who wrote several books, including ‘The Quest for the Historical Muhammad’, 2000 ed., & ‘Why I am not a Muslim’, 1995 ed.,. According to Wikipedia, ‘Ibn Warraq is the pen name of an anonymous author critical of Islam. He is the founder of the Institute for the Secularisation of Islamic Society (ISIS) and used to be a senior research fellow at the Center for Inquiry,[1][2][3] focusing on Quranic criticism.[4][5] Warraq is the Vice-President of the World Encounter Institute.[6]’

    Third, your article delineates that some of these writers ‘were clearly polemical in motivation and cannot be termed objective’ and ‘The most recent entries are often sourced in universities, and include works by Muslim professors…….’

    Which ones are authentic or provides validity of Muhammad’s existence & accomplishments, refuting the evidence of individuals from Islam Watch website, Robert Spencer, and now Ibn Warraq, etc…??

    You complied this list of people to confuse me, hoping that I wouldn’t look at the material? Are you even reading what you are posting?

    You are something else…..very special….unbelievable!!!!

  45. What? Nobody posting about the brave Merican who stood up for our freedumbs today in a Washington movie theater showing 13 Hours and shot the lady in front of him in the chest?

    Maybe they would prefer to talk about the brave four year old who killed himself with his grandpa’s gun today?

    Thank god we have good, decent, Muricans who will keep us all safe from the bad guys with guns.

    Oh, yeah. Thanks, Obama!

  46. RWl, I need not try to confuse you, you have done a fine job confusing yourself already, and seems like it started long before you got here.
    As I said earlier,you are simultaneously making the case that Muhammad was a false prophet and that Muhammad did not exist. One of you is obviously lying…perhaps even both of yous.

    My job is not to prove that Muhammad existed, or that Islam is “valid”! The historical record is clear enough. Thousands of scholars throughout the last 1500 years have done either pretty convincingly. To go along with the theory of one false Islamic scholar doubting the existence of Muhammad or of Islam is a waste of everyone’s time. The first answer where I linked Karen Armstrong shoulda been sufficient to satisfy your requirement.
    Look up Lesly Hazelton too if you want another Jewish scholar…
    Or are you looking for someone who was there when the quran was revealed to Muhammad? You do know how the historical record works, right?

    As for the list, I gave you hundreds of names that examined the historical record that support both the existence of Muhammad and that Islam is…”valid?”. The least you can do is to go through them and find your information. You want me to do that for you too?
    Do you have anything other than Robert Spencer’s “work” to support your claim that Muhammad did not exist or Islam is “invalid”?

    And will you at all answer any of my challenges to you?

  47. Isaac,
    Since I doubt very much that you have read the Quran in context, let me state that your claim that “…l the vicious stuff in that book. The book is such a jumble of disparate instructions it reminds one of a shotgun blast, holes everywhere. ‘ is false beyond belief.
    In fact, I challenge you to show where in the quran, in context, do we find that which you claim.

    I’ll go even further, I challenge anyone to bring a constitution, divine or human, anywhere, that is as detailed yet as balanced and as humane as the quran, in context.

    A 1500 years old book that remains the same, that offers scientific facts that remains unchallenged, that made predictions that came to pass, that challenges its detractors to bring a verse like it, that tells Muhamad that he is the last prophet and that no other prophet or other revelation would appear…all of which stands… then… RWL, perhaps the Quran is Muhammad’s miracle?:)

  48. Tnash80hotmailcom,

    And he continues to do it. He can’t help himself.

    Po,

    SMH! I am finished, and I will pray that the Lord Jesus Christ open your eyes. Although I don’t want you to become completely like the ex-Muslims on Islam Watch (who are not Christians), but I do hope that your eyes become open, as theirs are about Islam & Muhammad. Finally, please read Ibn Warraq’s books (and thanks for that source; it proves my case even more). Also, visit Dr. Craig’s website and watch his debate with a couple of Muslim scholars (you will see how he really good Dr. Craig is).

  49. It is interesting to see that EVERY time Po gets put in his place, he either crows about “slapping somebody around” or stomping somebody, or letting somebody “win one”.
    Tens of thousands of words per column from him will not change him into some sort of debating genius, nor will his repeated bizarre boasts about how clever or victorious he always is.

  50. Tom, when and where was i put in my place?
    By whom?
    I don’t claim to be a debating genius, it’s just that compared to you and Nick, I certainly look like one:)

    Are you two ready yet to contribute anything of value to these discussions we are having…or are you satisfied with the childish/retarded flinging poo around?
    I mean, you have something to offer, right?

    What do you think of this topic?

  51. po – now we are down to hundreds of older youths placed with adults. The picture used by Al Jazerra purportedly showing a young offender, shows a very ganged-up offender regardless of his age. If he is Hispanic, they start them in the gangs really young and send them out to do their dirty work. His gang should be protecting him.

  52. I guess I do owe Po an apology after all. The statement above plagurizes one of Po’s “answers”, almost verbatim. That’s how he answers questions, and one of the reasons many of us are so impressed with him.

  53. The pantheons of gods that mankind used to try and organize itself through representation of all human attributes still exists today. There are still ‘love’ goddesses, ‘war’ gods, etc that are looked to for some semblance of understanding and tutoring. The Greeks didn’t make up all their gods and stories to amuse themselves. The characteristics and actions of the individual gods described different human characteristics and what would happen when one was out of balance.

    That same desire or need to address human characteristics, frail or strong, in order to give structure to society was continued in the Old Testament and other books developed by the ‘wizards’ of the Jewish religion. These stories of brothers killing brothers, kings killing the husbands of women they coveted, etc are illustrations of what went on and still goes on, when balance is lost. The ‘wise old men’ who wrote the books were the observers turned leaders.

    These devices were developed for the ignorant masses as the ignorant masses, as is the case today, are the ones that need to be organized and controlled, in order to keep them from killing each other or to get them to kill other groups of ignorant masses. Thousands of years ago a Greek leader determined that his daughter must be sacrificed in order for there to be a victory in the upcoming fight with Troy. The gods demanded it and some wizard said so. Reason and common sense were present but only as an observer. The author of ‘Iphigenia’, Euripides, was an observer. Today, in the more advanced countries of the West, the people with their self control and common sense determine who is to be sacrificed, not some god channeled through a wizard. Mistakes are made but not by gods.

    We have in the world today working examples of humanity in self control and humanity controlled by wizards in the name of bogey men/women. The grand muffdiver of Saudi Arabia, supreme muffdiver is a supreme example of how the world was thousands of years ago. His only real purpose is to illustrate where we have come from and must never return.

  54. issac – would you have the guts to repeat that in public in Saudi Arabia? Or are you just a gutless troll?

  55. Tom, you do realize that you can more valuable outlet for your time?
    I Don’t know how much time you have left but it is ticking away, tock, tock, while you waste it not saying much?
    Give me your address and I’ll send you a signed teddy bear you can name Po…you can hug it, hold its hand, argue with it…it will be your best friend:)

  56. Paul, you have taught Tom well, saying a lot of little things and none containing much:)
    Thanks for correcting his spelling so nicely, you, truly, a friend:)

  57. RWL
    Po,
    SMH! I am finished, and I will pray that the Lord Jesus Christ open your eyes.

    ————————–
    RWL, are you gonna cut and run again when the going gets tough?
    It says a great deal about that you keep quoting people who are debunked as scholars in the fields they pretend to know about.

    The history of Islam is 1500 years long, with thousands of established scholars who spent their lives studying the quran and Islam, yet it is lone Robert Spencer who has no knowledge of Arabic, who has no degree in Islamic studies (same for Dr Craig, whose view of Christian theology even other Chrisian scholars reject), whom every scholar disagrees with, whom you quote as expert against the 1500 year old legacy of islamic studies?????

    What type of rational mind would do that?

    It is people like you who give Christianity and Jesus Christ a bad name. You are an ignorant fundamentalist, not unlike this grand mufti and his ilk.
    Not only are you unable to know what your religion says, you double down by claiming to know what other religions say, using other ignorant fundamentalists as guides.
    I do pray that Allah guides you and your ilk in the name of Jesus (As) for I know you are not a Christian, just another corrupter claiming the mantle of reformer, another wolf in sheep clothing.
    I can tell you with utmost certainty that Jesus does not consider you of his people. And if he doesn’t, no other prophet will…No worries, I’ll be extra righteous so that when it gets way too hot for your comfort, look me up, perhaps I could place the good word in for you:)

  58. Paul

    As with going to North Korea, Saudi Arabia, or any other of the backward totalitarian and retarded places in this world, and taking with me my opinions, absolutely not. It has nothing to do with guts but more with keeping them where they are. Don’t confuse bravery with stupidity. Your comments are, as usual, as disparate and erratic as that famous book, the koran.

  59. How about Senegal? Declared by Po to be “the most tolerant country on earth”.
    Forget about ” a bunch of words strung together” by some lame organization like Human Rights Watch.
    What is that compared to the cosmopolitan Mexican/ Somali/Oriental Senegal expert? I’ll try not too complain too much about the wordy nothingness and sheer folly of Po’s ridiculous, baseless assertions.
    At a penny a word, he can feed numerous Senegalese transvestites for months.

  60. Isaac
    As for every modern atheist, you are biased and fundamentalist about your bias, which makes you very much of the same cloth as the mufti…and as RWL.

    All of you operate from the premise of the one vs the other, you, as the one, endowed with higher knowledge and better insight, the other as the one lacking in divine value, or rationality or knowledge or culture.

    Telling me that religion is obsolete is actually worse than me telling you that atheism is irrational. You do not know what the value of religion is to the believer, and I do not know what atheism does for you.
    In order to make your case however, you have to conflate all religions into a heap of violence and evil, which requires you to be blind completely to the other side of religion, the individual and communal benefits of it. You’d agree that is a very irrational process, at best.
    If most religious people try to abide by the rules of their faith by not killing, not raping, not stealing…how would you conclude that faith is useless to society? You really do not see that the more religious people there are (reasonable religious people I mean), the safer we all are?

    Another glaring and illogical mistake new atheists make is to speak forcefully about religion without knowing the least bit about it, which is not only dishonest but very much illogical. Most lack basic knowledge of religion. Richard Dawkins was recently on twitter blasting some for criticizing one of his books, whcih they never read, only to be met with a chorus of voices pondering why he, of the prophetic islamophobia and the relentless criticism of the Quran had never read it. I have yet to meet a critic of islam, religious or atheist, who had read it!!!!
    While past generations of atheists at least were knowledgeable in the holy books, the doctrines and dogmas, and were able to weigh what they perceived as good against what they saw as bad, their rejection of faith was informed and rational, hat is why it was also usually balanced and fair, not fundamentalist.

    Furthermore, you tend to use western society as the standard of civilization. That is fallacious as well because we all can see that western societies are failing us in every single measure. If we use one single standard, one of human rights, western society has been responsible for most of the abuse of human rights across the globe. In fact, there is no horror going on currently that is not outsourced from the west, and generally in the name of what…secularism and democracy.
    And I must bring this back…the number one cause of pregnant women’s death in US is murder. To me that is unfathomable and frames the issue perfectly.

    As for the Quran, you keep lumping it with other holy books as violent and horrific. As I affirmed before, you have not read, for what you claim is in it is not in it. You may find things to hold against it, but at least be fair and don’t blame it for what it does not say.

  61. Ouch!! Not only has Po declared “with utmost certainty that Jesus does not consider RWL one of his people”, that there is ” no hope” for Paul C.Schulte, but I now find that out that Po doesn’t love me.

  62. Tom, where did you come from? I remember your first post to me, and it set the tone for what was to be the norm, a challenge to a point I made that you were unable to sustain.
    Try me, make an argument that is based on facts, that is rational, that is fair, and keep doing it and we won’t have a problem.
    Meanwhile, as long as you keep trying to score cheap shots, friend, we keep having a problem.

    As for those who really matter on this blog, who are able to make cogent, rational, logical, fair arguments, and those are in the majority thank God, I have no problem with them.
    So I dare to say that you and your ilk are the problem:)
    By the way, weren’t you on your way out?

  63. Not sure what my first post was to Po………the only certainty was that, in his mind, he won the exchange.
    Probably added a hahahahaha at the end as “proof” that he won. Evasiveness and word games are not part of “cogent, rational, logical, fair arguments”. Inventing his own set of ” facts” to make a point has muddled exchanges.
    Then claiming “well, it was just hyperbole” when called out on factual errors. That pattern of “logical argument” has been repeated again and again and again by Po, at GREAT length.
    And that’s why his credibility is shot.

  64. Evasiveness and word games are not part of “cogent, rational, logical, fair arguments”. Inventing his own set of ” facts” to make a point has muddled exchanges.,”, my point exactly, Tom.
    Glad we agree on something.

    As for acknowledging my error (singular, one, not more as you suggest), most people would give me credit for it. I mean, I could have obfuscated like most of ya’ll do…I could have ignored the question like most of ya’all do…I could have doubled down on the denial as most of …instead I acknowledged your point like a man, knowing full well it would cost me down the line. Meanwhile, you have obfuscated, ignored or denied every point I have ever made…?????

    As for my credibility being shot, at least I have one for you to aim at…I am still looking for yours…seems like you don’t have one, or if you do, you never brought it along. Retrace your steps…:)

  65. “Meanwhile, have you ever obfuscated, ignored, or denied every point I’ve ever made….??????-po
    I’ll try to help Po along in the same language he prefers, and uses; i.e,
    ” Rephrase the question, make it clear in your mind, then ask it again”.
    That’s an exact quote from one of Po’s “answers”, and he deserves no less as a ” response”.
    Ain’t word games fun?????

  66. “Senegal is the most tolerant country on earth”. “4,000,000 killed in Iraq”. ” Crimes against Palestinians by Israelis are never sanctioned”.-Po
    I won’t bother trying to explain to Po the difference between “singular” and “plural.”

  67. Retrace your steps, Tom, you musta dropped it, your integrity.
    Wasting too much time with your obsession of me…though I am certainly flattered:)

  68. Were there lies, Tom, I surely woulda been embarrassed, for unlike…uh…you…I have shame,
    Typical of you however, accuse me of something without proof…a decent man would either provide the proofs or refrain from accusing…. you do neither…typical, typical!

    So at the end of the day, everything you said about me cannot be sustained?
    And yet I am the liar?
    Typical!
    Typical!
    So are we done here?
    Are you now relieved, happy, satisfied? Gotten plenty of my attention! It’s starting to get a bit creepy here with your obession with me😕

  69. issac – they don’t know allow sheds in my area. We have very strict HOAs. And I think threatening people violates the Civility Code.

  70. My research reveals that Jesus may have been what you creatures call “queer” or “bent”. Would that go against the so called “teachings”?

  71. Tom – when I first started here they would have a note saying they took your stuff off. Now it seems to be a stealth approach. The just ‘disappear’ it. I never check on my old stuff so I am never sure if it is still there, however some people do and have mentioned their comments have disappeared.

  72. Beldar – there is NO research that shows that Jesus was a homosexual. If you would like to lay out your evidence I would be glad to debate it.

  73. Paul C. Schulte…….I had seen notices to others that their ” comment had been deleted under the civility rule”.
    So I thought that comments were either deleted or published, or maybe deleted soon after publication; not held in suspended animation where it’s impossible to tell whether they’re published or not.
    Or taken away, put back in different order, etc.
    Looks more like sloppy editing than a rational, orderly civility rule.

  74. Beldar

    There was nothing wrong and perhaps everything right about Jesus. His suggestions all have merit and if one disconnects the naivety and authority from the writings what is left is perhaps the greatest advice that has come down through time. However, he didn’t say squat. It was the ‘elders’ who put together this new political party, which at the time was cloaked in the mantle of religion. They put it together over centuries crafting and adjusting to the times and oppositions. Religion is a natural, natural because it happened so consistently and for so long in humans, function of the evolution of mankind’s greatest societal activities. Somehow, mankind has to govern itself and the never to be answered questions of how, why, when, etc are always open to anyone and everyone; L Ron Hubbard for example. Success is realizing that it is mankind and mankind only that can sort this out. There is no supreme being and anyone that listens to a grand muffdiver is nothing more than the tail on this creature that came, is coming, and will continue to come out of the ooze.

  75. Paul

    I would think it would be more important what you think, Paul. Or you could be one of those that needs a grand muffdiver to think for them.

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