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New York Times: Trump Jr. Told In Advance That Anti-Clinton Information Was Coming From Russian Government To Help His Dad

220px-Nytimes_hqThe New York Times is reporting that “Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy.”  That would be a significant development in supporting allegations of “collusion.”  I am still skeptical of the alleged crime of collusion and even more skeptical of the alleged crime related to this meeting.  I am also confused by the NYT story which says that the email from publicist Rob Goldstone acknowledged that the information was coming from the Kremlin but the article quotes Goldstone in saying that he had no knowledge of any such connection to the Russian government.

The newspaper says that three people said that the memo from Goldstone was described to it by three people and indicated that the source of the information was the Russian government and that it wanted to pass along damaging information against Hillary Clinton.

I have previously questioned the basis for claiming that Trump Jr. committed a crime in holding this meeting in the hopes of finding dirt on Clinton.  Some have argued that receiving intelligence from the Russian would be akin to an illegal campaign contribution.

However, the article raises more questions than answers. If the Kremlin was behind this information, why didn’t this mysterious Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, actually pass along such information? Instead, she is described by various people as stating some generalities about possible Russian support for Clinton without any support or documentation. If the Russians were making such a play to influence the election in favor of Clinton, this is a curious way to going about it.  First, they arrange a bizarrely high-profile meeting (when real spies tend to find third parties to get or transmit information).  Second, they secure the meeting but do not bring even a detailed account, let alone documents, to support the allegation.  Finally, if Trump had acted on that information, it would have been a disaster since it would have been baseless and unsupported.  To this day, there has been no evidence of Russian financial support to the Clinton campaign or Democratic National Committee.

It is also weird that Goldstone admitted that he spoke with the Trump team before speaking with the New York Times.  He then categorically denied the allegation and said that he was merely passing along a request from the father of his client  pop star Emin Agalarov.  Mr. Agalarov was an associated of Trump Sr. in the Miss Universe pageant to Moscow in 2013.  He said that he was told that Veselnitskaya had information of possible illegal campaign contributions from Russia for Clinton.  He told the NYT that he “never, never, ever “thought (or presumably said) that the information was coming from the Russian government.”  That leaves us in a rather weird position.  It is hard to believe that this man (or the Trump team) is so stupid as to go over the memo and then tell the media something diametrically opposite of what the memo actually says.  Obviously the memo is going to be reviewed and eventually released.

So where does that leave us?  In a word, confused.  The NYT article itself seems conflicted on what the memo actually said.  If the memo did state that the Russian government wanted to pass damaging information on Clinton, why didn’t it?  If such information was going to be fed to the Trump campaign, it would still leave us with the legal question of whether information can now be treated as a thing of value under federal campaign laws.  However, it would be good to understand what is being specifically represented as to the pre-meeting communications from Goldstone.

613 thoughts on “New York Times: Trump Jr. Told In Advance That Anti-Clinton Information Was Coming From Russian Government To Help His Dad”

  1. The guy to watch is Special Counsel Robert Mueller. Here are some of the attorneys Mueller has hired & he’s not done yet:

    Zainab Ahmad, a top national security prosecutor on detail from U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Eastern District of New York.

    Rush Atkinson, an attorney on detail from the Criminal Division’s Fraud Section at the Department of Justice.

    Michael Dreeben, an appellate attorney on detail from the Office of the Solicitor General, described by former colleagues as one of the brightest criminal law experts of the past two generations.

    Andrew Goldstein, a public corruption prosecutor on detail from the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Southern District of New York.

    Adam Jed, an appellate attorney on detail from DOJ’s Civil Division.

    Lisa Page, an attorney on detail from the FBI’s Office of the General Counsel and a former trial attorney with the Criminal Division’s Organized Crime and Gang Section.

    Elizabeth Prelogar, an appellate attorney on detail from the Office of the Solicitor General.

    James Quarles, a former partner at WilmerHale and a former assistant special prosecutor for the Watergate Special Prosecution Force.

    Jeannie Rhee, a former partner at WilmerHale who has served in the Office of Legal Counsel at DOJ and as an assistant U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia.

    Brandon Van Grack, an attorney on detail from the Justice Department’s National Security Division.

    Andrew Weissmann, who is on detail from the Criminal Division’s Fraud Section and who has served as general counsel at the FBI and as an assistant U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of New York.

    Aaron Zebley, a former partner at WilmerHale who has previously served with Mueller at the FBI and has served as an assistant U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia.

    Aaron Zelinsky, an attorney on detail from the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the District of Maryland.

    1. So the erstwhile Mueller and his Unicorn Riders will ascend on the DC swamp to imply guilt on the communists for trying to collude with the capitalist to take down the socialist/globalist? With all the known crimes engulfing the previous administration – I predict Mueller’s witch hunt will backfire. People (Trump supporters) understand whats at stake here (America’s future) and won’t allow this globalist to come in and try to have our dully elected President removed. This would cause a civil war…

    2. Yea, a big waste of tax payer money that will be a hit job on the President. Ya think Comey will have to face the music for leaks? Suddenly the head of the FBI can take confidential data that belongs to the US and leak it via a comrade? How often did that occur?

      1. I’d like to Mueller’s itemized cost schedule on a monthly basis….Just out of curiosity….Milk it for what it’s worth.

          1. Jerry,… PS..
            This is from the article “No glimpse of Mueller’s Russia Special Counsel Budget until October”- Todd Shepherd, Washington Examiner, July 5, 2017

            1. I got the feeling these attorneys will be shopping for Christmas gifts early in October.

  2. “So where does that leave us? In a word, confused.”

    This is the exact and accurate illustration of all this. Trump and his mob are continuing to create chaos and confusion. This way allegations are lost in the confusion and lies find their place along with the rare truth. Trump exaggerated, lied, and blamed throughout his campaign to connect with the ignorant who hang on these words to find someone to blame. The catharsis was the experience of Trump’s campaign of lies and finger pointing for the ignorant and frustrated.

    Now Trump’s son, who is another ‘nothing’, creates the ‘last word’ on the Russian debacle. Out of the confusion we are given a picture of what happened and it is designed as nothing. Whether it was nothing or this is pure strategy, the problem here at the heart of it is that now in order for Trump’s words to carry any credibility at all, the Russians have to stay silent or back him. Putin now has his hand up Trump’s rear. Hail to the chief. What a revolting development this is.

    1. Isaac,..
      -An unprecedented level of leaks citing anonymous sources can be confusing.
      We can probably dispense with the Special Counsel and the Congressional committees; media outlets can solve all of this for us by publishing endless leaks from unnamed sources.

      1. Whatever side one takes, Putin now has his hand up Trump’s rear. The media did not create the relationships between Trump and Russia. The media is not hiding Trump’s tax returns. The media is not responsible for Trump’s lies, bankruptcies, double dealing, ineptitude, etc.

        Read the Washington Times or Fox News and then spout off about the left wing media. Take away the media and we still have the biggest fraud in American history in the office of the Presidency. The man’s a real estate developer with no real idea to do other than what was created for him and for what he was created. Trump is not much better if better at all than the slick salesman on a used car lot. He can read people and he obviously read enough people. Take someone who needs a car and has no clue and there you have the perfect analogy. Enough Americans just happened to be coming along at the right time.

        1. Isaac,…
          Fine. You presented your suspicions that Putin has a hold over Trump.
          Your suspicions are not evidence.
          An accusation is not proof.
          Keep spouting off about your “beliefs” as if they were facts.
          The silver lining is that it’s entertaining to see you go down this path again and again.

            1. Linda,..
              -Yeah, I’d like him to provide his tax returns.
              A lot of people seem to already “know” whats in them, so it might be redundant for them.

            2. And I suppose you believe you could interpret them as well? Certainly, they run into the thousands of pages. Or perhaps you will just wait for the reader’s digest version spun by a media hell-bent on their agenda.

              1. SuriMike,…
                I don’t know the number of pages in Trump’s tax return.
                There would be summaries if those returns are realeased.
                I’d probably look for a summary by a source like FORBES or FORTUNE to cut through the bullsh*t, and give a concise and accurate summary.

            3. Linda, What is it in his tax returns that you want to know that is not already included in all the forms he had to fill out to get a gaming license and to build in NYC?

          2. As I stated, irrespective of one’s beliefs, the ball is now in Putin’s side of the court as to what part Russia played in the Trump mess. If Putin stays silent then it is only Trump’s word; which has been more lie than truth but enough people seem to be OK with that to give Trump the control position. On the other hand, Putin can release a tidbit here and a tidbit there to keep Trump on edge, even if the tidbits are not true, partially true, or totally true. The first fact of the matter is that Trump has had various and long standing interactions with Russia, fact. The second fact of the matter is that more than half of the American public wants to know more about these interactions whether they lead to supporting Trump or derailing Trump. So, Putin has his hand up Trump’s rear. How’s that for Presidential material?

            1. On the other hand, Putin can release a tidbit here and a tidbit there to keep Trump on edge, even if the tidbits are not true, partially true, or totally true.

              Hmmm, that strategy sounds eerily familiar. Please remind me who Putin has supposedly been colluding with?

        2. Con artists don’t need any actual knowledge of anything. They only know how to con ignorant people. Trump is good at that.

          1. They only know how to con ignorant people.

            Jonathan Gruber would agree with that statement.

                1. Olly – is it Classified or Top Secret? I am not worried. Comey and Hillary can give away secrets. Truman gave the secret of the A-bomb to Stalin (however Stalin already knew), God only knows what secrets Obama has given to Putin.

    3. “This is the exact and accurate illustration of all this. Trump and his mob are continuing to create chaos and confusion.”

      ***********************

      So Trump gets his pal, Putin, at the Kremlin to gin up all these stories about collusion to create confusion in the country and that aids Trump exactly how? By delaying his agenda and undermining the country’s ability to conduct foreign policy at a time of global crisis?

      I think chaos and confusion is your “natural state.”

  3. It’s not confusing. The Times made it up out of whole cloth or eagerly passed on someone else’s fabrications without bothering to verify anything. This is the same Times that once ran over 30 stories on the membership policies of a golf club in Atlanta, the same TImes whose editorial controls are so lacking that they published scads of ‘on-site’ reporting from a sociopath / AA project who was writing from his apartment in Brooklyn. The same Times which is unembarrassed about having employed Walter Duranty. There’s no need to pretend they have any integrity at all. They did, at one time, but it was crucially dependent on the presence of a man who retired in 1986.

    2. I haven’t read the Times article but the emails that Jr. released tell the story of a conspiracy to accept a campaign contribution from a foreign government which is against the law. Considering the information damaging to the Clinton campaign that was released right after, I would say that the contribution was made.

  4. Facts: HRC kept classified emails on a server in a bathroom. HRC’s Clinton “charities” only utilize 7% to the actual charitable work and that’s a generous estimate. There was collusion between the press, CNN and the Clinton campaign. Uranium One. Passing out at events. No one can come with one thing Clinton has accomplished since her years of public service, not even her supporters. There are more facts.

    Fact: Trump was not Clinton. Trump has a big mouth. Trump comes off rude. Being president is not beneficial to Trump.

    Her own record is why is lost. She failed to campaign in key areas.

    This Russian stuff is old. It’s a ‘nothing burger”.

    What if Trump does something really bad and the press reports on FACT? No one will believe them.

    That’s a fact.

    1. So Don Jr hired a top mob lawyer to defend him from a “nothing burger”. Connect the dots. It is a big deal.

          1. At least Don Jr. didn’t delete his emails and then wipe his server clean with Bleach Bit.

    2. You left out how the DNC, Hilly and the media colluded to knock out Bernie from the race.

    3. More facts: Hillary Clinton called half the voters in this country “deplorable” – and she meant it. Hillary deleted 33,000 emails that were under Congressional subpoena. Hillary’s team used a hammer to smash a dozen cell phones to destroy evidence. Her husband met with the Attorney General on a plane days before her FBI interview where Comey was not present, it was not recorded, no notes were taken, and Hillary was not under oath.

      1. How do you know all this if it wasn’t recorded ? Where do you get you “facts” about what Clinton did, what she said and what she meant? From Fox News? If you know all this information maybe you should contact the FBI. You know more than they do, apparently. You owe it to the country to tell what you know and how you know it.

    4. And then we have Julian Assange suggesting he still has some unfinished business with John Podesta.

      Also the DNC Fraud lawsuit will be ruled on next month.

  5. There is only one known “Russian Dossier” that was produced as a result of opposition research.
    It didn’t focus on Hillary.
    I doubt that a case for “treason” can be made when there is foreign involvement in dirt-digging opposition research.
    But even if such a case could conceivably be made, it would make more sense to focus on the “Trump Russian Dossier”, since there is no known counterpart operation targeting Hillary Clinton.
    As a Clinton supporter in 2016, Richard Painter seems willing to ignore the Russian dossier on Trump.

  6. Everyone is focusing on the meeting itself but there is a bigger issue. Donald Trump Jr. lied about meeting with Russians. If it was as innocent as he claims, why lie about it? Of course he had something to hide and it was Russian meddling in the election orchestrated by his father.

  7. Here is some code to help sort out good news from the untrustworthy within the comfort of your own home.

    IF EXISTS(SELECT 1
    FROM CoffeeTable
    WHERE Publisher= NYTimes )
    THEN
    DELETE FROM CoffeeTable WHERE Publisher = NYTimtes
    End If;
    END
    /

    1. Yes, we are notet interested in what the NYTimtes has to say.

      However, TNYT is a newspaper of record.

    2. Here is more useful code:

      for (i = 0; i < PosterCount; i++);
      $Poster = (cin.readLine(i));
      if $Poster = "Darren Smith";
      break;
      BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(i));

  8. I wonder if there exists the possibility the promise of dirt on Hillary Clinton was simply a pre-text to attract Mr. Trump into arranging the meeting, since there was little to offer on the Clintons, they instead had a captive audience to segue into other topics.

    1. If this were the initial meeting with those involved with the campaign, it would be an excellent way to see if the campaign could be influenced. Jr showing up with the campaign manager suggested that , yes, we can influence this campaign and possibly have a connection that keeps Trump doing what the Russians want done. Controlling, or at least influencing,Trump wouldn’t be done from that single meeting, but it shows the vulnerability. More meetings to come resulting in more influence. The bait was “Clinton”, the switch was for deniability or they really didn’t have anything at the time. The Russians needed to see the results from the campaign. Or, there was more to the meeting than we know.

  9. Pretty amazing how the Dums and their press have nothing to offer but the Russians are coming. Let go and start doing some good for the nation and the working class. Drop CNN, mslsd and your progressive “resist” platform and dump some of the dopes in your party.

  10. Here is a link to an article that discusses the two different statements provided by Donnie Jr. over the weekend:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jr-statements-russia-lawyer-meeting-natalia-veselnitskaya-2017-7

    Of course, the fact that ALL these Important Trump People took time out of their busy schedules to meet with this Russian attorney at the same time MUST have meant that these Important Trump People had no idea who they would be meeting and didn’t care that much about what they would be talking about.

    I strongly suspect that, during this time period, ALL of the schedules of these Important Trump People were filled every day with meetings with people that the Important Trump People didn’t know very well and who these Important Trump People did not believe had anything important to say. I also strongly suspect that, the less important a person was, the greater the likelihood that Donnie Jr., Kushner and Manafort would ALL want to personally meet with that person at the same time.

    Just think, in June of last year anyone reading this blog could have called up or emailed the unnamed acquaintance of Donnie Jr. who Donnie knew from the Miss America pageant and said they had dirt on Hillary, and then immediately, Donnie Jr., Kushner, and Manafort would have PERSONALLY dropped everything to meet with you (instead of sending their assistants to check things out).

    Or maybe that isn’t true, and perhaps Donnie Jr. has told a fib, or a lie.

    In Celebration of Donnie Jr.’s apparent fib or lie, we should celebrate with a Russian poem about Donnie Jr., to be recited by the President:

    My Donnie lies over the ocean
    My Donnie lies over the grass
    My Donnie deserves a promotion
    For lying to save my a$$.

    Green-backs, Green-backs, oh Green-backs galore for me, for me.
    Green-backs, Green-backs, oh Green-backs galore for me.

  13. Trump’s got Russians crawling all over him. And I don’t just mean the sex tape. But he’s safe in that the Republicans in Congress won’t do anything to impeach him. Good thing that those same Republicans can’t get their act together to pass Repeal and Replace either. No R&R, no tax heist for the rich. The states told Trump to take a hike with his sniveling attempt to purge the voter rolls. California thumbed its nose when it came to the issue of sanctuary states. Face it, your precious President Trump won’t be able to get a damn thing done during his remaining time in office. Russia’s gonna dog him EVERY SINGLE DAY for the rest of his term. Good, because real Americans, not his facist-wannabe supporters, need to do anything in their power to shut this president down.

    1. L Silver “real Americans” don’t vote for Establishment Dims or Establishment Repubs – they are the true traitors willing to rape the country for $$ and power and dismantle our civil liberties.

  14. Sure. The Russians, so diabolical, fiendish and cunning–the evil geniuses responsible for hacking into our election–decide to meet up with the Fredo of the Trump family. Right. That’s the best that they can do. Schedule a meeting with Fredo.

    1. decide to meet up with the Fredo of the Trump family. Right. That’s the best that they can do. Schedule a meeting with Fredo.

      The Fredo of the Trump family was the President’s older brother, who is long deceased.

  15. JT , NYT , like the MSM , had endorsed a human who had laughed about the brutal murder of Qaddafi , just like she had laughed about having accused a minor of bringing on her own rape . With this history of filth in the character of our msm , I don’t trust a word from it . Has our msm said anything positive about Trump?

    1. You distort and pervert the truth and YOU have a problem with the MSM LOL

        1. For her to laugh while lying that she didn’t know whether it was even true is just another proof of the low life form she is . She said “he died” and then she laughed , and for the msm idiot to let her get away within this evil response is the reason I hate msm

          1. This is the character of NYT since it endorsed her ! An honest media would have never let her get away with this kind of evil response after her evil deeds . Anyone who complains about trump’s tweets or think he is not “presidential ” , just know what kind of filthy character corrupt and sick media had wanted to win instead!

  16. No memo. No story. No case. It’s really that simple. Plus the lawyer wasn’t working for the Kremlin at the time. She seemed more interested in Russian adoptions.

    1. Russia doesnt care about adoptions. Magnitsky sanctions is the russian concern. They want them revoked.

      1. They don’t care about anything but undermining our government and with the MSM as presently constituted, they have a willing apparatchik to do it for them.

    2. She was not remotely interested in Russian adoptions…wake up…she was interested in the repeal of the Magnitsky Law which prohibited Russian officials implicated in human rights violations from engaging in banking transactions in the USA and place visa restrictions on them. In retaliation Putin passed laws banning adoption of Russian children by Americans. The notion that Russia cared about the repeal of their own law is absurd.

      1. Were that the case she would have turned over some dirt on HRC. So I think she was interested in adoptions. You don’t go to a drug deal with no drugs or no cash.

    1. There are election laws that prohibit American candidates from receiving money or any kind of benefit from foreign nationals. You are so Patriotic that you do not care if politicians receive aid and assistance from foreign adversaries…well God bless America!

      1. “There are election laws that prohibit American candidates from receiving money or any kind of benefit from foreign nationals.”

        Money yes, but where in the law does it state other benefits? Are you making that up?

        When one receives information from the NYTimes one has to recheck the validity and carefully watch for spin that can turn black into white.

        1. I should have added that even based upon the NYTimes reporting no wrong was committed

      2. If nobody worries about Hillary taking foreign money, then why would I care if anybody else did it??? Plus, if you want something REAL to worry about as opposed to something SPECULATIVE, then try this on for size!

        Donald Trump wasn’t the only presidential candidate whose campaign was boosted by officials of a former Soviet bloc country.

        Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

        A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

        http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

        Are you going to call for a Special Counsel to investigate Hillary??? I am betting not, because none of this stuff matters to you either.

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

      3. They should have stuck to digging up dirt in Arkansas like the other campaigns did.

    2. I agree, Squeeky. It has become totally boring, mindless bs. Some of our commenters, however, seem to thrive on it.

      I’m still joyful that Obama is no longer president, and that Hillary never was or will be. Right now that’s enough for me.

    1. Five White House senior officials…go figure, what else is coming???

    2. Naw, it’s never corroborated by anyone else. It’s the Nothing Yet Truthful newspaper. They don’t need no stinkin’ sources!

      1. Mespo,…
        The NY Times article is says that there are “three people with knowledge of the email.”
        We must trust the NY Times trust in the “three people”. 😏

        2. And do these people have first, second, third or fourth hand knowledge of the memo? Did they see the actual memo or did they hear through the jungle telegraph that there was a memo?

          As for me, the wording of the source is too cute by far.

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