Alabama Auditor Defends Roy Moore: “Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

Jim-Zeigler-228x300Murillo_immaculate_conceptionAlabama Senate candidate Roy Moore has long been controversial and I will readily admit to being one of his most vocal critics over his defiance of legal authority and extremist views.  However, he is now perfectly radioactive after allegations that he initiated sexual contact with a 14-year-old when he was in his 30s.  Perhaps the strangest defense came from Alabama state auditor Jim Ziegler (right) told the Washington Examiner that, if Moore did engage in pedophilia, it was “much ado about nothing.”: “Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.” In the meantime, Moore has called his multiple accusers as people engaging in “intentional defamation.”  What is clear is someone is lying.  If Moore is telling the truth, the next step would presumably be a defamation lawsuit.  The same can be said for these four women who have now been called liars.  This is a time when a little litigation would go a long way.

Ziegler’s comments were clearly designed to appeal to Moore’s base. Moore became a household name by defying courts over Christian displays at the courthouse and waging a virtual war on the notion of separation of church and state.  Ziegler’s statement is chillingly reminiscent over our prior discussion of Muslim clerics opposing bans on child brides because Mohammad married a 6 year old girl and consummated the marriage when she was just 9 years old (here and here and here and here).

Ziegler insisted that “There is nothing to see here” and that, at most, “The allegations are that a man in his early 30s dated teenage girls. Even the Washington Post report says that he never had sexual intercourse with any of the girls and never attempted sexual intercourse.”  If Moore did try to date teenagers as an adult man, Zieglar insisted that “There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here. Maybe just a little bit unusual.”

It is an appalling defense and Moore notably is not trying to defend such conduct as opposed to outright denying all four allegations as “fake news.”  Various GOP leaders have either called for Moore to withdraw from the race or consider withdrawing.  The Senate GOP has blocked any fundraising for Moore in light of the allegations.

The women accusing Moore were between 14 and 18 when Moore allegedly committed these acts.  The Washington Post says that it was researching another subject when its reporters began to hear that Moore had a reputation for pursuing young girls.

Leigh Corfman was 24 when she said that Moore molested her.  The other three woman do not alleged physical assault beyond kissing.

Moore insisted that all of the women were lying and that “The forces of evil will lie, cheat, steal –– even inflict physical harm –– if they believe it will silence and shut up Christian conservatives.” Of course, if Moore is lying, he would be oner of the biggest and most evil frauds in the history as a man who ran on the religious right while hiding his prior history as a pedophile.

Then there are these women. If these allegations are false, they would be equally evil liars destroying a man’s reputation for political purposes.

In other words, there is clear defamation.  In cases like this, I often wait to see who sues first.  Discovery on a defamation claim is a chilling prospect for a public liar.  While Moore is subject to the New York Times v. Sullivan standard as a public figure, he could seek to show knowing falsehood or reckless disregard of the truth if there is no evidence to support these claims. Indeed, his statements suggest that there is no truth at all to these allegations.  For the women, Moore just gave them a gift if they are telling the truth.  By defaming them, they could not pull him into court and, more importantly, discovery.

So let’s see who will sue first.

145 thoughts on “Alabama Auditor Defends Roy Moore: “Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.””

  1. While the media and much of the public are deeply in love with salacious news stories–whether real or fake–there is some actual REAL news actually happening. Of course, the Leftists avoid real news because they HATE facts and evidence. But, as a public service, I offer you this bit of real news involving the lowlife skumbag criminal Mueller, who not only permitted the 911 crimes to happen, but deliberately took action to OBSTRUCT genuine FBI agents from doing their jobs to STOP the 911 crimes.

    But this clip involves Mueller’s current activities. Mueller should not only be fired but should be prosecuted. Unfortunately, like the Clintons, he’s a tool of the Elite Establishment and is 100% protected from prosecution for criminal activities.

  2. “So let’s see who will sue first.”

    Professor Turley is always right.

    I seem to recall Herman Caine being driven from the 2012 race by charges of sexual impropriety.

    Whatever happened with the tale of his accusers?

    Did they simply vanish?

    Did they prosecute or sue Herman Caine?

        1. Sexual assault knows no party. No one should excuse the behavior of their own tribe whether it be Bill Clinton or Donald Trump.

    1. Don’t forget Anita Hill. Justice Thomas had the opportunity to speak for himself. Roy Moore is not getting that opportunity.

  3. It is often the case that a woman that speaks of a sexual assault is told to have her head examined. It is called gas lighting.

    1. Add reading comprehension to your needs list. Your post expressing appears and imagine were in reference to beliefs of false accusations. It just so happens the subject of those false accusations is sexual assault.

      Nice try though.

        1. Let’s try this a g a i n. You said:

          It appears that those that believe that Trump has been falsely accused of sexual assault also believe that Roy Moore is also being falsely accused. Would imagine that these same people also believe that Roger Ailes and Bill O” Reilly were falsely accused.

          Appear and Imagine are as useful to a discussion as might be and could be. They are opinion words and meaningless with out some foundation. It is absolutely reasonable to want justice served, but as we have seen far too many times, the accused’s lives get ruined before a trial and without a shred of evidence. Think Duke Lacrosse. While I wouldn’t hand those 4 men a pot to piss in, I will not convict them without evidence. And there is no way I would support anyone for public office that has been proven to be an untrustworthy public servant.

  4. We don’t know how old Mary and Joseph were, other than Mary being a teen in a time when lives were much shorter than now. Having a baby at 15/16 was probably the norm. Nor do we know how old Joseph was. But since he wasn’t married, he was likely in his late teens or early 20s. In any case, Joseph certainly wasn’t a 32 y/o Assistant District Attorney. The article I read said Roy Moore was an ADA and recently returned Vietnam vet. If he did pursue under-age girls, who knows how low he went in Vietnam, where he likely could have purchased anything. A 14 y/o is not a child, so I would not consider him a pedophile, if the accusations are true. But a 32 y/o pursuing a teenager is still a serious charge, especially for an ADA. I’m wondering if the State Bar is going to look into this? But the problem I have these allegations is that they are 38 years old. Even if the allegations are true, and say he returned from Vietnam having hired teen hookers and still had an interest in young teens, what if he realized that his conduct was immoral and repented and changed his behavior? Are we to forever condemn someone for moral lapses 38 years ago? As a society, do we not allow people to change and redeem themselves? I wouldn’t vote for Moore based on his politics. But these accusations wouldn’t be a factor, unless there is something much more recent to show that his beviour hasn’t changed and that he is a hypocrite in his claims of being anardent Christian.

  5. If it feels like a political hit job, it might be a political hit job. Like JT said, let’s see who sues first. Judge Moore’s statement used the words “intentional defamation” for a reason.

    “This garbage is the very definition of fake news and intentional defamation.”

  6. I appreciate how the auditor described Joseph as “parent of Jesus” but not as “father of Jesus”

  7. Multiple accusations! The 14 year old seemingly had told others when her “incident” occurred! Thus her account appears verified.

    Yes! Moore appears to be child molesting scum. With Moore being a bible before country traitor imagine there are prolly many unamerican posts with lame excuses for his twisted behavior. Such is the current sickness of christianity.

    btw – if a 32 year old (religious pervert or not) moves on my 13 year old daughter, the police and likely an ambulance will need to be called.

  8. We need movement on Moore. There is no time. Each side needs to present their proof. Either Moore preyed on a teenager or a woman fabricated the story. It must be resolved.

    It is frustrating when a complaint surfaces after more than 30 years. Luckily for the victims, Bill Cosby, Bill Clinton, and Harvey Weinstein had a long, documented history of similar allegations. There was some proof even without physical evidence.

    Moore has been a lightening rod for decades with no such accusations that I am aware of. Why would a victim suddenly come forward?

    I understand sometimes women are afraid to name a public figure. Daughters need to know to burn a trail straight to the police station when there is physical evidence. Do not wait. On the other hand, there have been high profile cases where accusations were fabricated.

    So they had better present their evidence, because neither of their word is enough.

    1. What proof! No one can prove or disprove this. Where were these charges during the primary? I have no use for men doing these things, but I have zero tolerance for this. If she wants to accuse, go on TV and face the accused. This is Democrats attempting to void the Alabama Republican Candidate, nothing more! Voters for Moore should be furious. And so should Democrats in Alabama. This just stinks!

    2. Hard for these young girls to come forward at that time because the offender was a district attorney.

      1. No, it ain’t hard. They just didn’t do it. Anybody can go down to the police station and file a report. You like to argue that women are equal to men in every aspect, but then you want to start tagging them as scared little girls who are afraid to file a police report. You can’t have it both ways.

        Personally, I expect more from women than some whiny ass namby pamby excuses. And that goes for the Alabama chicks, Juanita Broaddrick ( who I believe), and the Cosby Skanks. (And it goes for all the males who were supposedly molested by other men, too.)

        If women want to be equal, then they need to put their big girl panties on. I call bullsh*t on all this “I been too scairt to say anything for the last 40 years” crap.

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

        1. Agreed Squeeky. No one believes these women any more than anyone believes racism now. Too bad the media has destroyed the credibility of all blacks and all women – but, they have.

          Alabama has no tolerance for the snot-nosed east coast media nut cases. Moore will stay on and he will win.

    3. “Why would a victim suddenly come forward? Because the heightened public scrutiny towards sexual misconduct, involving famous people like Kevin Spacey have emboldened victims. They have less fear of being branded a slut or nut, the two usual defenses when victims come forward. When there’s more than one victim and a pattern emerges, there is less chance of name calling and accusation of being a liar.

      Secondly, “…neither of their word is enough.” Maybe not for you, but I hate to tell you that testimony is evidence, and in cases of sexual assault that may be all the evidence that exists. Another thing about sexual misconduct/assault/rape is that these crimes aren’t perpetrated in the public square at high noon. They take place in secret. In the case of a much older man preying on young girls or boys, there is the element of exploiting their lack of sophistication. Predators know how to flatter and how to entice innocent teens to go to private places where they can take advantage of them. Afterwards, whether there is sexual penetration or not, the victim feels cheap, used, he/she questions whether they did or said something that caused this, they realize they were stupid to go to the private place and they fear they are not to be believed, especially when the perpetrator is well-connected or famous. To avoid adding insult to injury by coming forward only to be called a liar and to have the encounter become public knowledge, they try to suck it up and move on, but without therapy, they often can’t, so too many times they turn to drugs, promiscuity or other self-destructive behavior. After all, if this wonderful, famous respected person treats them like a piece of dirt, why should they have any self-respect.

      Whatever else Moore is, he doesn’t respect the law. This has been repeatedly proven. There are multiple accusers, and an emerging pattern. He doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt from me.

      1. you can’t take the squeekster seriously, in a past post she referred to African Americans as “monkeys” & when she was called on it, SHE gave 2 namby pamby excuses 1) that she had the protection of free speech 2) a definition from the dictionary that was so ridiculous i can’t recall it exactly

        1. That is not true! Because I actually have a very positive view of monkeys. For one, they can’t help how they behave, and if the whole troop raises the young monkeys, then that works for nomadic foragers. Blacks on the other hand, have no excuse for their trashy behavior, and the godawful 72% illegitimate birth rate. They live in a modern, technological society that even has free birth control bills and free education. They even get free food, and help paying for housing, etc. There is no excuse for their continued widespread ignorance, thuggery, trashy behavior, and outright savagery.

          Squeeky Fromm
          Girl Reporter

    4. Is a state auditor an elected position? Because Ziegler’s anachronistic moral relevance gives me chills, as a parent. This is the same reasoning that defends child brides in Africa and the Middle East.

  9. How did Moore hide this for 40 years through many public campaigns?

    Should the public require proof?

    If the charges are legitimate, what is WAPO’s culpability for withholding the story for 40 years and marketing it one month prior to the election?

    1. This is dirty politics! I applaud any woman for going to the police or a hospital immediately in this case her parents or a teacher). But 30 years ago? This is becoming an epidemic of “past memories” suddenly reappearing. And McConnell instantly jumps on the wagon. Then John McCain, suddenly the epitome of virtue (his first wife might challenge that). I hope Alabama voters see the nastiest accusation as politically-motivated!

      1. This is exactly my problem. If the accusation is true, but the women cannot prove it due to the 30 intervening years, then it is impossible to know for sure. If it is false, but again impossible to prove, then it will be impossible to entirely exonerate Moore.

        I am very curious as to the proof on both sides.

        1. Jonathan Turley wrote:

          “In cases like this, I often wait to see who sues first. Discovery on a defamation claim is a chilling prospect for a public liar. While Moore is subject to the New York Times v. Sullivan standard as a public figure, he could seek to show knowing falsehood or reckless disregard of the truth if there is no evidence to support these claims. Indeed, his statements suggest that there is no truth at all to these allegations. For the women, Moore just gave them a gift if they are telling the truth. By defaming them, they could not (sic) pull him into court and, more importantly, discovery.”

          “So let’s see who will sue first.”

      2. Harvey Weinstein has been assaulting women for decades. Just because the women did not come forward nearly 30 years ago does not mean that their accusations are not true. People are often fearful of the powerful.

        1. Don’t forget that Weinstein had the elite Israeli version of CIA following his victims, documenting their moves and sexual histories, collecting dirt, if there was any, all to intimidate them. It’s bad enough to be a victim, but to have the encounter made public and to be branded a slut or nut, or at least someone not wise enough to avoid the situation, is intimidating. Predators know that. It’s what they feed on. It takes a lot of courage to come forward, and as too many posters on this blog indicate, all the famous person has to do is deny it and claim the accuser is politically motivated, and they’ll be believed. It’s sort of like cockroaches: if you see one, there’s probably 50 hiding in the woodwork. For every victim willing to stick out his or her neck, there’s probably 50 that don’t want to dredge up the horror of the past events, so they keep still.

          1. Don’t forget that Weinstein had the elite Israeli version of CIA following his victims,

            Illiterate half-wit. He hired a company called ‘Black Cube”, which employs some Mossad veterans. The Mossad isn’t going to bother with some LA film producer’s legal problems.

          2. Hillary Clinton, (the great champion for women and girls) did the same thing to all of the women who came forward and accused her rapist/predator husband. What was it Hillary called Monica Lewinsky to smear her in the press? Oh right, a “narcissistic loony toon.” What was it James Carville said about dragging a $20 bill through a trailer park? My how we forget.

        2. It does not excuse the inaction. If Pig Weinstein had assaulted me, I would have bit his little weenie off, and then whomped him over the head with whatever was near. Then, I would have gone to police, period. Stop excusing cowardice on the part of women. And yes, I believe the Weinstein accusers, but I would give $1.00 damages in court, if anything, because they were too chicken sh*t to come forward.

          Plus, women often know exactly what they are getting into with men like that, and some of them don”t care at the time because it helps them get what they want. Then, when the suing starts, here they come out of the woodwork to collect again, and get a bunch of sympathy. Scre the bunch of them, I have no sympathy for the one who kept their mouths shut. They only made it possible for there to be more victims of these types of men. And they basically sold out their sisters for money and roles.

          Squeeky Fromm
          Girl Reporter

          1. Exactly. Fame and money came first. If he can get me a movie role and an Oscar nomination, I can keep quiet.

        3. Harvey Weinstein has been party of Hillary’s inner circle of friends for decades. But of course she didn’t know anything.

    2. You twit. The Washington Post just discovered this story recently and checked it out exhaustively. Turley erred, I believe in writing that Leigh Corfman alleged that Moore had molested her when she was 14. She had informed friends and family contemporaneously with the victimization.

      1. And her family did nothing? Just heard the things she asserts and just kissed her goodnight and went to bed? Are there parents out there who would have handled something like this without notifying police.

        1. So, you’ve heard nothing in the past decades of the cultural acquiescence that kept, “parents out there who would have handled something like this without notifying police.”

          Here are some reminders:

          “Since the mid-1990s, more than 130 people have come forward with horrific childhood tales about how former priest John J. Geoghan allegedly fondled or raped them during a three-decade spree through a half-dozen Greater Boston parishes.”

          https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/special-reports/2002/01/06/church-allowed-abuse-priest-for-years/cSHfGkTIrAT25qKGvBuDNM/story.html

          “The Catholic Church has faced a raft of allegations of child sex abuse by priests and an inadequate response by bishops. Here is a round-up of some of those events:”

          http://www.bbc.com/news/10407559

          Does this ring a bell for you? Many child abuses are not reported at the time — denial by parents are at the top of the reasons why.

    1. “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky…”

      but I did take massive amounts of campaign contributions from Harvey Weinstein and the whole Hollywood crowd – those moral models of honor and integrity.

  10. I feel the same way about this as I do about all the Bill Cosby skanks. If it happened, you should have said something years ago, and not wait until the eve of an election. I feel the same way about Juanita Broaddrick. I don’t doubt that Bill Clinton assaulted her, but why wait 21 years to report it??? In Alabama, these things happened back in the 70’s, and they are just now saying something?

    Hogwash.

    Plus, I don’t think that screwing 14 year olds is pedophilia in the strict sense of the word. Currently, 13 year olds can get married in New Hampshire. 14 year olds in North Carolina and North Dakota and Alaska. 15 year olds in Hawaii, Indiana, Kansas, Maryland, Utah.

    Then, in Massachusetts, the minimum legal age is NONE! “Consent can be just judicial, but is normally both parental and judicial. In the absence of any statutory minimum age, one opinion is that the traditional minimum common law marriageable age of 12 for girls and 14 for boys may still be in effect.”

    Then, in California, Colorado, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Kentucky, Florida, Idaho,Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Washington, West Virginia, and Wyoming, there is NO MINIMUM AGE at all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_marriage_in_the_United_States

    Sooo, rather than calling it pedophilia, when teenagers are involved, maybe there should be a better term to describe it. Because to me, pedophilia is maybe under age 12. Although in the hood, cultural norms are such that even 12 year olds are routinely sexually active. And 14 year olds having sex is very common.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

      1. That’s the problem with having no statute of limitations on anything besides murder. The evidence is gone. I would give a minor a five year statute to report, and then cut it off. Because what would a trial 40 years later look like besides she said-he said?

        I have no sympathy for women who do not report sexual misconduct in a timely fashion.

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporters

        1. The perp was the district attorney. Could have made things very very difficult for her and her family.

          1. The perp was the district attorney.

            If you’re going with perp, it should be prefaced with alleged. Otherwise just use accused. Unless of course you want to bypass the judicial process and go straight to sentencing.

            For your viewing pleasure:

            https://youtu.be/xnVP4cr9X0U

            1. Not necessarily,,..,for instance, one can a perpetrator immoral acts that are not necessarily prosecutable.

              1. Not necessarily,,..,for instance, one can a perpetrator immoral acts that are not necessarily prosecutable.

                Then you’re skating on very thin ice risking a defamation lawsuit. In Moore’s case, unless he is prosecuted and convicted for these alleged crimes or pleads guilty of a crime, then it will be up to the voters in the state of Alabama to determine if they want him to represent them in the U.S. Senate.

                1. Sue me, then. I think Moore will probably be elected. Alabama might be the only state that would elect the guy.

                  1. Alabama might be the only state that would elect the guy.

                    Since he is running in the state of Alabama, that would be appropriate.

                2. Since Moore is no longer denying the entire story, the law suit would have little merit.

        2. Squeeky, sw-mom wouldn’t have any sympathy for the women, either, if it weren’t a Republican that was the accused. Situational ethics and morality, doncha see?

          1. Absolutely not true… I was just recalling some events that happened when I worked at the legislature. All of the perps were democrats .Fortunately my incidents were rather minor when compared to the others.

      2. Great. Now we hear from the Vietnamese parasites.

        58,000 dead, 19-year-old American kids and this freak is living the good life in America.

        Why does it stink in America? Who thinks this stuff up?

        I hear Vietnam is nice this time of year.

    1. Dear “Squeeky.” You’ve forgotten how to spell your nickname. I wonder if the NRA might help you in getting your concealed carry rights restored? After 42 years, we should let bygones be bygones.

    2. You are a silly bitch. There is a world of difference between teen marriage, which is legal in some states, and sexual assault by an older predator committed against an innocent teen who is lured into a private place and then touched or penetrated. It’s the predatory nature of the event, and whether or not there is actual penetration, the issue is exploiting the teen’s vulnerability as an expression of asserting superior power. The gravamen of the crime isn’t even sex necessarily, but a severe personality disorder that manifests itself in sexual behavior. The fat Dotard has this disorder: he thinks he can grab the genitals of women he finds beautiful. Being “beautiful” in the presence of Chump does not constitute consent to sexual touching. He doesn’t understand this. Maybe Moore doesn’t understand that his desire to touch young girls doesn’t constitute consent by them to be touched.

      Moore is accused of taking one of the most personal and precious asset a teen has–their innocence and right to control over their bodies. That is not Romeo and Juliet teen romance at all. A 30-year-old who “screws” (your sick wording, not mine) a 14 year old is a criminal, and should do time behind bars. Ditto for one who touches their private areas and attempts to induce them to touch his, as Moore is charged with. Even though I disagree that a 13 or 14 year old should be allowed to marry, at least in this situation he or she is not the victim of a predator taking advantage of their trust and innocence. Age really is not the determining factor here. It’s exploitation of a teen’s body and lack of sophistication to feed an ego.

      And, no, you racist pig. It is not “normative” in “the hood” for 12 year olds to be sexually active. What qualifies you to say such things, anyway?

      1. It is not “normative” in “the hood” for 12 year olds to be sexually active. What qualifies you to say such things, anyway?

        What qualifies you?

      2. Why don’t you apply some of your Energy Venom to READING what I wrote. I said nothing at all about sexual assault and ages. I simply said that we should find a new name for having sex with teenagers besides “pedophilia”. Because if a 13 year old can get married, then it isn’t the same as molesting an 8 year old, or a 3 year old, or a 5 year old. It still isn’t a good thing, but I am not sure it is “pedophilia”.

        Further, 14 years olds are having sex all over the place, with people about their own age. Are their partners “pedophiles”???

        Now, as for sexual assault, I think if you are assaulted then you need to report it in a timely fashion or STFU about it. And yes, I think the Cosby accusers are a pack of money-grubbing skanks who knew quite well why they went to his abode. It was to swap p*ssy for some benefits. A lot of women do this, and some are much better at it than others. To wait 30 or 40 years to report it, as if they were some virgin in a Muslim culture, or Indian culture, is ridiculous. These were American women, and their sexual value would not decline much if they were raped. Heck, the way women are screwing around today, it would probably make them more attractive.

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

      3. Natacha:

        You asked: “And, no, you racist pig. It is not “normative” in “the hood” for 12 year olds to be sexually active. What qualifies you to say such things, anyway?”

        Uh, stuff like this!

        Low-income kids report first sexual intercourse at 12 years old in new ISU study

        Posted Aug 12, 2009

        AMES, Iowa — As a new mother herself, Brenda Lohman admits to being shocked by the results of a new study she co-authored. It found that among nearly 1,000 low-income families in three major cities, one in four children between the ages of 11 and 16 reported having sex, with their first sexual intercourse experience occurring at the average age of 12.77.

        “So if 12 years was the average age here, that meant that some kids were starting at 10 or younger,” said Lohman, an Iowa State University associate professor of human development and family studies (HDFS). “A handful of kids reported having sex as early as 8 or 9. We know from our follow-up interviews that one boy who reported having sexual intercourse for the first time at age nine had fathered four children by the time he was 18.”

        “Those people who say that kids don’t have sex at that young of age should think again,” she said. “Definitely the age is the most shocking thing about this study.”

        Tina Jordahl, a former Iowa State HDFS and public policy graduate student who is now a market research specialist with Hospice of Central Iowa, collaborated with Lohman on the study. It analyzes data from the “Welfare, Children and Families: A Three-City Study” — a six-year longitudinal investigation of low-income families living in Boston, Chicago and San Antonio. Their paper, titled “A biological analysis of risk and protective factors associated with early sexual intercourse of young adolescents,” was posted online in the Children and Youth Services Review and will be published in an upcoming issue of the journal.

        Interview data for the study was first collected in 1999 on youth between the ages of 10 and 14, and again in 2001. Lohman says she also has data collected in 2006 from the same subjects, who were between 16 and 20 by that time.

        https://www.news.iastate.edu/news/2009/aug/teensex

        Plus, what I see working in Penelope’s law practice. Frankly, in the 8 years since this study, it has gotten worse, and I would go as far to say that the rate now of 12 year old black girls having sex is well over 50%. I count fellatio as sex, unlike most Democrats.

        Sooo, do you feel like apologizing?

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

        1. Squeaky, the question about sex at age 12 is about lack of psychological preparedness, and lasting damage to development. I can almost guarantee that much of this early sex is coercive, and establishes a repeating pattern of untrustworthy, transactional sex encounters. It should bother you that many of these young girls are pushed into sexual slavery and drug addiction for the financial betterment of an older male pimp. And that these activities are illegal. This being a legal discussion board, that needed to be pointed out.

          1. I am not saying that 12 year olds having sex is a good thing nowadays, but it is quite common. Particularly in the hood where it is just a fact of life. There is little or no adult supervision in the hood. I see it thru black clients that float thru the office. But, if you do not believe me, them put this black dude on in the background and listen to it. Tommy talks about more than just the 6 year old with a gun. He talks about how he grew up. This is the one where he also discussed 11 year old black girls “s*cking and f*cking” which was pretty common, because they performed those services for him when he was that age. It’s at about 9 minutes in:

            https://www.news.iastate.edu/news/2009/aug/teensex

            Squeeky Fromm
            Girl Reporter

            1. How far did you go in school, anyway? Did you go to school at all? If so, where? You are repulsive. C’mon, admit it–you aren’t female, are you?

        2. Wow! 25% of a mere 1,000 study participants from a mere 3 cities, not identified, much less shown to be representative of an entire group, qualifies a generalization to an entire race in every single City and State? Even in this study, 25% of a population from just 3 cities does not qualify as a “norm”. What proof is there of any of the usual safeguards on choosing study participants that qualify this study as representative of an entire group? What proof is there that there wasn’t self-selection in order to make a point for an agenda? What proof is there that the participants weren’t lying, flattered by attention, or that there aren’t other grounds to suspect they might not be truthful? None. There is no validity to this so-called “study”/

          Apologizing for calling you out for being a racist? Nope. You have called black children pickanninies. You have made groundless, racist generalizations about black men and women. You are a pig, honey, and not a very bright one at that.

          Merely because a 13 year old could legally marry has nothing to do with whether they could be the victims of a sexual predator, nor does this establish that most 13 year olds aren’t innocent, naïve, unsophisticated, not vulnerable to flattery or other techniques used by predators to steal their innocence. Many times such children are loners or have poor relationships with their families and peers, making them susceptible to such abuse. Predators know who to pick on, and it isn’t the prom queen or star quarterback. You are harsh, judgmental and not very bright. Victims of sexual predators feel shame, they are embarrassed that they didn’t prevent it, they hide it, often from their own families for fear of being accused of lying or an ulterior motive, and that’s why they don’t go to the police. When they do, they are forced to strip naked, their bodies and genitals are viewed and photographed by strangers, and then penetrated with a vaginal speculum, or similar device to expose the anus, in the case of a boy, and swabbed. Their mouths are swabbed, and fingernails scraped. A normal GYN exam is bad enough for female dignity, but multiple times more traumatic for an innocent child. Protecting their children from further trauma is why families also sometimes decide not to report rapes and sexual assaults. The exam alone is horrible, not to mention testifying in Court. Did you see the original “Cape Fear” and Greg Peck’s explanation to Polly Bergen about what their daughter would go through to prosecute Max Cady if he raped her and why killing him would be better? Maybe you should.

          I honest to God have no idea what you are referring to when you use the phrase “sexual value” in regard to a woman, nor how it wouldn’t “decline much” as a result of rape. You are truly an ignoramus about all of this. Are you speaking of virginity? What about the value of male virginity? Do you know that Muslim women have a procedure done to attempt to restore their hymen, so that their family won’t be shamed if there isn’t virginal blood on the honeymoon sheet? What sick shit is this? Is that what you’re talking about? You severely need an education, but I’m beginning to see now that you aren’t female at all, are you?

    3. Noted that you called Cosby’s victims “skanks”, even though he admitted drugging and raping at least one of them. There is something seriously wrong with you.

  11. This is almost the same as slick Willie trying to lie, squirm, weasel his way out of the fact that he got regular hummers from Lewinsky, not to mention several others, other than Hillary. That a man or woman will be tempted is one thing; but to sink as low as Willie did, as many, many evangelical preachers do, as most men with the egos that take them to whatever heights they may attain and then squirm, lie, weasel out of it is the problem. We had a President who did not have the spine to go to Vietnam or own up to his own libido. Regardless of the ideological, political, or other arguments, Bill Clinton lacked a spine. He was and continues to be brilliant, but spineless. This brings us to #45 who is several rungs down the ladder from Willie. Trump has been a liar, weasel, cheater, holier than thou from birth. It seems that many Americans not only accept these traits but, as has been witnessed with Trump, champion them. ‘Locker Room Banter’, puts an almost star athlete spin on how disgusting Trump was and remains and lies about. The most important issue here is the absence of “I was a horn dog with an out of control libido and I have grown and regret those actions.” It seems that, in this country of perverse morality, when a candidate says that, he is distanced from the holier than thou voters. Remember when Carter admitted to lusting, in his head, never acting on his imagination, the hypocrites of America backed off. It took a blatant illustration of just how much of a doofus the alternative was, to get him elected. Moore’s behavior when he was an adult and he preyed on underage teenagers, if true, is bad enough. However, the accommodation of it by his pals and his lying, if he is, is the real issue here. The ego it takes to rise above the average and stand as a representative carries with it, more often than not, a lot of baggage. Unfortunately this ego comes with narcissism and sometimes megalomania. Witness the orange megalomaniac we have for President for as clear an illustration as can be.

  12. The women, who were discovered by reporters as opposed to having sought them out, perhaps imagined the climate had slightly changed after Weinstein, Spacey, et al to where they might be listened to instead of attacked? It’s clear political expediency makes them wrong. Fortunately, we already know the answer to the question whether Republicans will support someone facing multiple accusations of sexual harassment and even a claim of rape.. by a 13-year old.

    Some of the responses by public officials are appalling. Perhaps they can check with Devin Nunes as to how to face their daughters which he apparently found a way to do after disavowing Trump, for about two weeks. Anybody that says, “even if true” should take a closer look at what they just condoned.

    1. The women, who were discovered by reporters as opposed to having sought them out,

      And who put the reporters on to them?

      1. The reporter, singular, only heard about this first case and was allowed to pursue it. It was never the case that they were the passive recipient of information about Moore’s pedophilia. they checked these stories out, exhaustively. Expect more victims to come out of the woodwork, with worse stories.

        1. The word ‘pedophilia’ does not mean what you think it means. The concept of ‘proof’ also eludes you.

          And you didn’t answer my question.

      2. People that were aware of the stories! Sure they may have had a political motive but in the case of directing reporters to victims. that would necessarily mean the stories are true.

  13. I think Roy Moore is an ass. But I find it interesting that all of this comes to light 38 years later from an accuser who was 14 years old In a state with no statute of limitations if the victim was under 16.

    1. Richard Painter is also attempting to diminish his reputation. You’re retailing this just why?

  14. Newest way to win elections: Make accusations against your opponent, opponent then has to spend all his/her energy and effort on defending against the accusations. Meanwhile, everyone screams that he/she should “step aside”. Easy peasy. Never mind lawsuits, the timing is too suspicious to ignore, even if true.

    What a crap world we live in.

    1. Good point. Think dossier and opposition research. This should all blow away as soon as investigators conclude there was no intent. I mean isn’t this how the rule of law is preserved?

      1. It appears that those that believe that Trump has been falsely accused of sexual assault also believe that Roy Moore is also being falsely accused. Would imagine that these same people also believe that Roger Ailes and Bill O” Reilly were falsely accused.

        1. I would imagine you admired Harry Reid’s lies concerning Romney’s taxes back in 2012. When asked about it, he just smirked and said, “he didn’t win, did he?” It appears that would be your attitude, as well.

          See how that feels, swarthmoremom?

              1. Everyone except the MAGAS is retweeting Mitt Romney. 🙂 They stand by Moore and Trump no matter what happens.

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