I have been a critic of the alarming criminalizing of speech in Great Britain through hate speech laws. Such laws create an insatiable appetite for greater and greater speech regulation and create a sense of empowerment among citizens to silence those with whom they disagree. We have yet another example of how religious and political speech is being rapidly curtailed in Great Britain under expanding speech codes. Carolina Farrow, a Roman Catholic columnist, is now being investigated because, on Twitter, she referred to the biological rather than identified gender of the child of a transgender rights activist. She is accused of referring to Green’s daughter as a boy. For that, the activist, Susie Green, filed a complaint under Malicious Communications Act, which bars offensive, threatening and abusive content online. Police wanted a “taped interview with caution” on possible charges for transphobic conduct on social media. After criticism, Green decided to drop her demand for a criminal investigation but the point is that such references are now treated as criminal matters. The chilling effect on free speech is obvious.
We have previously discussed the alarming rollback on free speech rights in the West, particularly in France (here and here and here and here and hereand here) and England ( here and here and here and here and here and hereand here and here and here and here). Much of this trend is tied to the expansion of hate speech and non-discrimination laws. Once allowed to criminalize speech, individuals and groups demand more and more prohibitions. England is in a free fall over free speech. The police have indicated that they are considering making wolf whistles the latest category of hate speech.We also have even seen comedians targeted with such court orders under this expanding and worrisome trend. (here and here).
In this case, you have someone who is engaging in a national debate from her religious and political viewpoint. Farrow is accused of “misgendering” even though she does not recognize such transgender changes in biological genders. Notably, this tweet occurred months ago and Farrow did not even remember the reference. However, it is sufficient for a criminal investigation.
Rather than debate the issue (and there are strong arguments supporting Green’s position), Green elected to try to punish someone with an opposing view with a criminal charge.
Farrow vowed to stand by her free speech rights. She maintains “I have done nothing wrong, nothing illegal and will happily do jail time for my right to say that people cannot change sex.”
On April 9th, I will be debating NYU Professor Jeremy Waldron on such hate speech laws at Rice University in Houston.
62 thoughts on “British Columnist Criminally Investigated For “Misgendering” In Debate With Transgender Activist”
I was for him before I was against her.
1st on Troll Farms:
2nd on protect the US’s 1st Amendment & the world’s: Free speech
When it comes to all this Transgender metal illness bullshiit Japan has their thoughts together on the subject.
There if a guy wants to be called a gal the govt is saying fine but you have to put some skin in the game & cut your junk off. lol
Because the UK lacks the 1st Amendment, Progressives can use the government to shutter those with whom they disagree. Progs are too lazy and stupid to argue their points, so they just use the power of the government to silence those making points with which they can not argue. Just like in Saudi Arabia, where the government tosses women in prison for their crime of speaking about how the laws discriminate against them. (Interesting how Jeff Bezos’ newspaper The Washington Post is in bed with Saudi Arabia, and bans articles describing SA’s crimes against women and Christian minorities, worse even than in Iran.)
In the USA, Progs just use their scum bag left-controlled industries like CC companies and Paypal, Google, FB, etc. to skirt the 1st Amendment and silence their enemies, to put them out of business. Dozens of American citizens and industries participating in perfectly legal business are having their business destroyed by Progressive controlled media and banking type institutions like Paypal.
Pretty incoherent, but based on your completely wrong info on Anwar al-Awlaki, I think we can ignore it.
People must adapt to the outcomes of freedom.
Freedom does not adapt to people…
The principle of “freedom of speech” allows citizens to insult the King…and the politically correct “untouchables” du jour.
The principles of private property and free enterprise cause citizens to achieve and respect their superiors to gain favor.
“Hate speech” and all “hate” laws are manifestly unconstitutional and the related elements of the judicial branch should be impeached for abuse of power, subversion, usurpation and treason.
The dependence and parasitism of unconstitutional Affirmative action, quotas, welfare, food stamps, social services, forced busing, utility subsidies, WIC, TANF, HAMP, HARP, Education, Labor, Obamacare, Obamaphones, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Medicare, Medicaid, “Fair Housing,” laws, “Non-Discrimination” laws, etc. cause citizens to commit the sins of coveting, bearing false witness and stealing.
This sounds like a perfect case of, “My facts don’t care about your feelings”.
Things I know:
Human conception is a human
Nothing grey about these and to think otherwise you are in denial and need help, which I’m not opposed to helping you get.
What a bunch of apCray. A male is one with a dong. A male dressed up like a female, when he still has a dong, is a prong. A female who tries to look male but has no dong is a BSartist.
More leftist love and tolerance! And coming soon to a locale near you. Does anyone really think that the US will not adopt similar laws as we become a multicult cesspool and conflict between differing groups has to be managed?
Yeah, I don’t think the US will adapt similar laws or if any governments do they will be thrown out in court. It’s in the Constitution. Look it up.
I am fairly familiar with that document. And believe it or not, I booked Con Law a lifetime ago. While the First Amendment may exist on paper, the government will go after thought criminals using means such as anti-terrorism statutes and the like. Private entities such as social media will de-platform your account. Companies such as Amazon will remove your books from sale and circulation. SJW’s and groups such as the $PLC make it their business to actively hunt you down and get you fired.
Long gone are the days where it was said, “Sunshine is the best disinfectant” or “While I may disagree with what you say, I will defend your right to say it.”
Today’s university speech codes are only a foretaste of what to expect in another 20 – 30 years especially as the US becomes a more non-Western oriented society. Already happening in Europe which the American Left will use an example we need to follow.
No, my friend hate speech laws are coming and people like JT are only a bump in the road.
Fortunately, the Left fails to recognize that censorship and hate speech laws will only drive these criminal ideas underground. I wonder how the American ‘Samizdat” will manifest itself in 2050?
Transvestite in a bar makes a move on Crocodile Dundee…What would you do?
And what have the ministries of David Cameron and Theresa May done about such travesties the last nine years they’ve formed the government? The United States isn’t the only occidental country where conservative politics has decayed into an exercise in failure theatre.
Sex is biological. Identity is performative. One can be a biological male but behave as a female, even alter one’s body to become more convincing. Scientifically, the individual is male. There are also rare genetic anomalies such as intersex. Again, biologically, those individuals would be intersex, regardless of how they identify themselves or perform in society. People identify as dragons, dogs, mermaids…the complexity of human behavior is enormous.
Society is confusing behavior with biology.
Becoming convinced that one’s body is not right is a recognized mental illness, such as body dysmorphic disorder. There are also instances were someone is absolutely certain that their body is supposed to be handicapped, such as missing a limb. They feel great anxiety about this disconnect, and will go to great lengths to conform to their internal mental map. Should a doctor amputate a healthy limb because a mentally ill person desired it, they would be in violation of the Hippocratic Oath.
Gender dysphoria is similar. The body does not conform to the mind. The question is how to treat it. Does amputation of healthy genitalia to conform with the sufferer’s mental map improve their outcome? I do not know. Transgender people have an extraordinarily high rate of suicide. I do not have the data comparing those who have not had sexual reassignment surgery with those who have. The data also shows that the overwhelming majority of children who identify as transgender grow out of it by adulthood.
It is wrong to politicize science and medicine. In addition, it is wrong to try to force others to accommodate your own internal view. I have absolutely zero control over how others perceive and label me in their own minds, besides my own behavior. I cannot force anyone to use adjectives such as nice, intelligent, articulate, or pretty. We are free to form our own opinions. It is a basic human right to form and voice your own opinion, irregardless of what anyone, or any government official, thinks.
Therefore, if someone wants to perform as the opposite sex, it is up to all 324 million of us in the United States, and, I think 5 million in Great Britain, to determine if they agree with our determination.
Politicians latched onto a platform to run on so they could be a champion of equality. And so, they seized upon a mental illness, and decided to regulate it, legislate it, and force society to adapt, all to have relevance and power for themselves. It has become quite an industry in academia and activist organizations. Once again, we are seeing individual rights seized in the Western World, all for the “greater good”. It ends up the same.
Can you imagine being jailed in the United States for using the “wrong word” or for offending someone? I don’t particularly care for any of the various and sundry names I have been called while advocating for limited government, but I would never want my critics jailed for it. These laws grant the mentally ill special privileges. It allows them to punish or jail someone who does not conform with their own fantasy.
There have been quite a few scandals in the UK where Autistic children are being pressured to identify as transgender in school. The schools have pushed transgenderism so fiercely that impressionable children are overwhelmed with positive attention for claiming to be transgender. All of a sudden, they are surrounded with friends and admirers. For those who don’t fit in, that’s a heady mix. In one school, the Autistic student population was targeted. One by one, these vulnerable children were convinced they had to conform to another gender to get friends and attention. It’s not a level playing field. In one case, a boy was removed from his family because they refused to put him on puberty blockers. (https://www.dailywire.com/news/44895/teen-boy-autism-taken-parents-because-they-refuse-amanda-prestigiacomo)
Speaking of which, there is significant evidence that puberty blockers and other transitioning drugs cause serious and lasting physical harm. The activists aren’t talking about the cancer risks, sterility, or other side effects, which is very unfortunate, considering over 90% of transgender youth grow out of the condition if they are not given such hormone-altering drugs. That is pretty significant harm – sterilizing a child too young to make decisions for herself or himself, when there is a more than 90% chance they will just grow out of it.
Non violent mental illness should not be stigmatized. We do not, after all, society does not condemn those with depression, bipolar, or panic disorders. Those with gender dysphoria should have empathy and support, not because it’s the law, but because it’s kind. But they do not have the special privilege to force others to describe them as they demand. Otherwise, I want the power to demand that everyone describe me as 24 years old. It is my personal choice to decide what pronoun or adjective to use about any other person. For instance, I call RuPaul a she, even though he is a biological male drag queen who is most definitely not transgender. That’s my choice. (And, for the record, her show, Drag Race was quite fun to watch. Love the Village People dance off.)
Good comments Karen.
My sense – and hope I guess – is that we are in a rapidly changing culture – beginning with the quick acceptance of gays, even on the right – still feeling it’s way and making some mistakes, and that science and general acceptance levels will deflate the hot house atmosphere and lead to more common sense results.
The internal conflict I see is that the most active seem to be saying that gender is only a social construct, while at the same time saying this social construct is so powerful that those dealing with gender confusion should be allowed to be completely ruled by it to the point of self mutilation. Which is it: if gender is a social construct, the proper “therapy” for those conflicted by their biology should have no reason to modify it. If it isn’t just a social construct, a lot of other social directions we are taking don’t make sense.
Hopefully, stigmas about things of little importance to anyone but those suffering from them will lose their power over them as well.
My sense – and hope I guess – is that we are in a rapidly changing culture – beginning with the quick acceptance of gays, even on the right – still feeling it’s way and making some mistakes, and that science and general acceptance levels will deflate the hot house atmosphere and lead to more common sense results.
You win a prize for being obtuse.
And you are the repeat Silver medalist in the “irrelevant and meaninglessl” comments.
I always ignored the private sexual inclinations of gays when I had to deal with them in normal human social interaction, before gay marriage, and I always ignore it now. Because I”m not gay so it’s not my interest if I am associating with them. Rather it may be something like business. for which their gayness does not matter per se.
As to accepting them, I do not accept that their inclinations are normal nor healthy. I never will.
However, we all have some bad habits and inclinations. Some more than others. Alcoholism too is a heritable inclination, and a devestating bad habit for those who succumb. But I am friends with some alcoholics too. I sure don’t take too close of an interest in their sobriety, either. I’m not much of a drinker.
So understand, this makes me pretty much like every other normal guy. You may not get that, but whatever, as the kids say
Karen S– thank you for an excellent post. Although I am not schooled in the biology/ psychology of transgenderism, to a layman like me, it is symptomatic of the same disconnect between mind and body that occurs when, for example, an amputee “feels” a missing limb. No amount of imagining will change physical reality. The dangerous part of the debate is when those who are stuck in a delusional mindset, whether by choice or otherwise, demand that others accept what they think and feel as reality. Unfortunately, some countries and even some politicians in this country do not see the danger.
It’s not just politicians and countries – I had a pretty good friend drop me like a hot potato because I would not take the whole “poor put-upon transgenders” thing seriously enough.
Sorry about that, FFS. They were not a good friend if they would discard your friendship over a difference of opinion. They just acted like one until tested.
There was a dustup in my own family over the election. The ultra Liberal branch called my conservative branch everything from Nazi to anti-Semite, terms they knew for a fact to be false. But if anyone voted for Trump, it was an excuse to thoroughly abuse them, even on Facebook. My mother was going through cancer at the time, and is now too afraid to ever voice her opinion to her friends and family, either online or in person, ever again. Mind you, the perpetrators were avid feminists.
I was shocked, it was so hurtful. Made me realize not everyone ascribes to blood is thicker than water.
People preach tolerance, but are they really tolerant of different ideas? Or does it just go skin deep?
Looking back on life I think most can see some of their/our view changes over the decades & as new info becomes available.
Also I can understand your mom’s position on withholding opinions sometimes as we can all can sometimes feel ill or overwhelmed or often one has reason to believe other parties will not be receptive to certain opinions.
I can understand tact in not bringing up political discussions to avoid tempers flaring. My problem is that the people who called my mother absolutely vile names continue loudly voicing their obnoxious opinions, while she’s frightened of what will happen if she voices her own opinion. Her confidence was shattered, and she was badly hurt at a vulnerable time. She’s a very sweet person. She struggled with health issues for years, and members of her own family abandoned her because she voted Republican, like she always does.
People can’t just talk anymore. They can’t have a lively or spirited discussion about totally opposing points of view, with the shared understanding that everyone at the table is a good person. There should be a line that people don’t cross when disagreeing with friends or family. Now, you’re either an extreme Leftist, or you’re evil, which I find very illiberal. It is a deep shock to discover that someone you were sure held your family in regard and affection believed you were inhuman because you have a different political belief.
I don’t often think about it, but when I do, it’s painful. I need to just let it go. I suppose everyone has their family dramas. Luckily, mine doesn’t play out on prime time TV.
I understand your dismay with the behavior of some relatives and agree blood should be thicker than ideology, but you seem to think that only one side behaves this way. Look around at the vile personal nonsense some right wing posters here put up. There are jerks of all political persuasions.
Let me explain why I disagree with you that both sides behave equally badly.
While it is true that there are reprehensible people on both sides of the aisle, it is also true that:
1. K-grad school is overwhelmingly staffed with Leftists, who bring their personal politics to the classroom. There are many instances of bias against conservative students. I don’t care what personal politics any teacher or professor has, but they have to leave it at the door. Did you read that article about Amherst releasing a Common Language document that bashed conservatism and capitalism? That has the power of a university behind it.
2. Studies have shown that Leftists are far more likely to unfriend or disown a conservative over politics than vice versa.
3. Who is calling their political opponents Nazis, racists, homophobes, Islamophobes, transphobes, say they don’t care about the poor, don’t care about the environment? The Left.
4. Who has rioted in the streets or occupied buildings, holding those inside hostage, over politics? Occupy Wall Street. Occupy Ice. Who threatens people with baseball bats? Antifa. One might argue that in that infamous rally there were racists who engaged in fights. Antifa deliberately left their own, separate area, infringed upon the other demonstration that had lawfully gotten permits, and got into physical fights with them. I hate racists. We have free speech in America. If some idiot racist gets a permit, they are free to demonstrate and say whatever they want. It would have been wiser to completely ignore them, and let them preach to crickets. How embarrassing that would have been.
5. Who systematically targets and pursues people to get them fired from their jobs, lose their livelihoods, or run them out of public spaces? Recall that little pizza place in a rural area that was called by a journalist and asked if they would hypothetically cater a gay wedding? Remember all the little cake bakers who lost their shops or had to spend buckets of money in the court to defend their right not to participate in a gay wedding? I think gays should be allowed to marry. I would happily attend a gay wedding. I also don’t think someone’s grandma should be forced to participate in a gay wedding if they don’t want to. Remember all those times the Left chased prominent conservatives out of restaurants, harassed them at events, or threatened them with violence when they were invited to speak at a college?
6. Conservatives are afraid to wear pro-Trump or pro-Republican clothing, because verbal and physical assaults are that common. No one was afraid to wear a Hope and Change hat, an I’m with Hillary shirt, or feel the Bern shirt. People can wear the image of that murderous Che Guevara without worry. Conservatives are in fear of their safety if they wear clothing in support of their cause.
7. The Left has Hollywood behind them. At every awards ceremony, and in many movies, the same people who enabled Harvey Weinstein to rape and harass women absolutely pillory conservatives. Conservative movies and those who work on them get black listed.
8 The mainstream media bashes conservatives almost continuously. They selectively edit stories. They portray half the country as evil or reprehensible. What do you think half the country thinks about how the media address them or portrays them?
9. How many companies have started to bash conservatism? Gillette insults the very men who buy their razors from their humble place on the bathroom counter. Your shoes from Nike insult you. The NFL is not only unpatriotic, they attack those who want patriotism to endure.
Although you will encounter bad actors on the right, they do not have the scope to relentlessly persecute conservatives, with a bias applauded by the system. You don’t have to pretend to be a conservative to get good grades in college. You don’t have to hide Leftist clothing. Hollywood and the media doesn’t hate you. The Left is 3 times more likely to unfriend a conservative for political differences than vice versa.
It is not an equal phenomenon.
When there are bad actors on the right, they are universally denounced. When there are bad actors on the Left, they are applauded, like it’s fighting the good fight. What I find especially ironic is that the Left claims to be fighting Fascism, but Fascism is an offshoot of Socialism, and entirely Leftist doctrine. It is the Left who continually tries to erode individual freedom, including freedom of speech, as well as going after Constitutional rights, one by one. They are even trying to destroy the Electoral College, which would mean that 48 states would have no say in the election. Candidates would represent CA or NY, and that’s it. The rest of the country would become dystopian nuclear waste dumps. Think any President would care about what happens in any state that has no impact on a Presidential election?
The message that conservatives are evil and don’t care about the poor has persisted for decades. To some degree, I blame Presidents like Bush who chose to take the classy high road. They did not effectively fight the slander or community what conservatism is, and so such prejudice persists. To be fair, Trump’s brand of fighting isn’t effective, either, although he does put in a lot of effort.
You will recall that the Left declared that Trump was absolutely an anti-Semite because he forwarded a meme wth Hillary Clinton behind bars, with piles of money, and a sheriff’s badge. The argument was that if you drew lines inside the sheriff’s badge, it looked like a Star of David. However, the icon itself was actually called “sheriff’s badge” by the clip art creator. Lock her up was a common refrain, and she is allegedly guilty of serious pay to play criminal behavior. And yet, that entire context was ignored. People were hysterical, declaring that anyone who did not agree that this was anti-Semitic was an anti-Semite. There is no way to tell who creates a meme. No way to tell what they were thinking. What we do know is that in the midst of the outrage that Hillary Clinton got away with breaking multiple federal laws, people declared that a sheriff’s badge was the Star of David. It is entirely possible that the creator of the meme intended a subtle anti-Semitic meaning, but we don’t know that was true. One can use six degrees of separation between almost any message and a nefarious undertone. What we do know is that most of those conservatives forwarding that meme saw Hillary Clinton behind bars, because of her payoff money, and a sheriff’s badge.
That outrage quietly faded. Trump maintained his previous friendship with Netanyahu. He moved the embassy to Israel. He sent Nikki Haley to the UN to combat anti-Semitism. He brought the first Jewish people ever to set foot in Saudi Arabia for many years, instead of bowing to their No-Jews-Allowed policy. It goes on. People were absolutely, positively, sure that Trump, and all his voters, were anti-Semitic. When proven wrong, they did not apologize. They just moved on to another false accusation and another. He’s mentally ill. He has heart problems. He’s a Manchurian candidate. It takes a total lack of introspection to ignore that Hillary paid Russian spies to put out false information against her opposition, used that fake document to get the FBI to spy on him and unmask people associated with him, improperly listened to conversations, and otherwise tried to defraud voters, but instead blame the victim of her ploy for colluding with Russia. How is it even possible to keep a straight face while making Russia accusations?
So, no, I do not agree that both sides are equally to blame. When you become afraid to voice a Liberal opinion on the street, or wear Democrat clothing, then you might have some inkling what it is like for a conservative in America today.
Sorry Karen, but I’m not reading all that. You lost me with who’s calling people Nazis, when you have actual Nazi’s supporting Trump. That’s some pile of unself aware special pleading. I refer you to stats on right wing terrorism in the US – worse than Muslims – and your leader in the WH. But I won’t go there and act like I can quantify the slights and insults from each side as justification for my own prejudices as you do. Suffice it to say that one of the people on earth I still admire the most for fairness and ethical behavior, if not her politics, was my life long – now deceased – Republican mother. I remind myself by her example that very good people can disagree on these things and that those trying to demonize the other side – as you are doing – are just wrong. By the way, my now deceased sister, who was widowed with 2 girls at age 40 and then was diagnosed at about 60 with a form of leukemia which killed her eventually at 69, was like me, a liberal democrat and also one of my heroes as she was for my mother. We were all 3 very close and loving and our politics barely registered. I miss them both very much.
On other posts here I have been harsh about those who still defend Trump, but I have tried to differentiate that judgement which I think is inescapable, from a judgement about them as people or their opinions about other things. In my real life I admire and work with people who are Trump supporters, though we don’t talk politics much. I respect them for other things they do and who they are that are more important than what I consider an extremely foolish political position. One of my very best personal friends is a politically knowledgeable Republican who happens to detest Trump as he does Hillary. We spend a fair amount of time together. I am lucky enough to belong to a family with only one Republican member within the 1st cousin circle, so I am lucky to escape the kind of debacle you and your mother experienced. I do sympathize with both of you for what you experienced, and of course especially your mother, but don’t imagine that something like that with flipped affiliation has not also occurred in our nation. I refer you to the personal attacks and obvious hate registered by right wing posters on this site and ask if you think they are too enlightened to engage in the behavior you are trying to sell as characteristic of the left only. I don;t think so. You are obviously an intelligent and thoughtful person, but I think you are blind on this.
PS Karen, I live in the Deep South, and I assure you that those with an Obama bumper sticker drive faster down the back roads than the ubiquitous pick-ups with Trump Pence.on the back glass. At election time I make sure to get the magnetic bumper stickers so I can pick and choose where it’s safe to show the colors.
PS to the PS In fairness, I realize that your personal experience with your mother probably led you to these conclusions more than the above litany, or at least I hope so – that is more understandable and I can imagine reacting as you did. I continue to assert that human nature being what it is, I believe political opinions do not say much about who we are as people, or else we would have to accept the idea that good people are separated from the bad by seemingly accidental conditions like geography and age. I don’t believe that.
Here’s one of those Nazis you & your tyrant DNC/Rinos are supporting.
It’s understandable why you people hate Trump & his supporters so bad when one know the players that need protection from Trump.
The points remain that whether your a troll or brain washed by trolls you by calling Trump’s supporters vile, Nazis & promoting hate you are only trying to project on to us Trump supporters what you’ve/your kind have become.
For example the Trump supporters you hate could not be more against subsidizing abortion, Post Birth Abortion & the selling of aborted baby body parts for profit.
Yet you’ve the nerve to call us vile/Nazis.
Further by your actions you & your type company only insure more people come down with diseases like cancer & then hatefully puke against Trump even when he signs into law “The Right To Try” for terminally ill patients.
That shouldn’t have ever needed signed, but could have been signed by any Prez the last 60 years when it was known to be a problem.
Sir, please understand Mr. Anon’s definition of a “Nazi” goes way beyond someone affiliated with the “National Socialist German Worker’s Party (NSDAP).
Don’t even try reasoning with a leftist, it cannot be done. You probably view Mr. Anon as a well meaning but mistaken individual. He views you as evil and someone who should be hunted down, doxxed, fired from employment and socially ostracized. Maybe even prosecuted for thought crime in a more just world. Certainly someone it is ok to commit an assault upon.
Answer the following.
Do you oppose the removal of Civil War monuments dedicated to the memory of Confederate Soldiers?
If yes, you’re a “Nazi”!
Do you oppose (or even question) the merits of mass immigration?
If yes, you’re a “Nazi”!
Did you vote for Donald Trump?
If yes, you’re a “Nazi”!
Do you have religious objections to homosexual marriage?
If yes, you’re a “Nazi”!
Do you have religious objections to abortion?
If yes, you’re a “Nazi”!
Do you believe that male and female are separate, distinct entities?
If yes, you’re a “Nazi”!
Do you believe there are only 2 genders?
If yes, you’re a “Nazi”!
And the list goes on and on.
I have a novel idea. Why don’t people like us and the Left get a divorce? If the US were a couple, it would have already happened.
Sir, I’ve given up on America and I truly welcome the day this divorce occurs. And occur it will in another 50 years. If I were a younger man, would probably be out in the streets demonstrating.
You must not have read my posts OKY. I never said I hated Trump supporters or called them Nazis or vile. I said real Nazis support Trump and that some of the posters on this board who are Trump supporters post vile personal attacks, like, ahem, this one you just did. In fact, I said I have friends and people I work with who I admire who are Trump supporters, though that is not what I admire about them.
Anyway, maybe you’re drunk.
Your projections have failed & now your latest deflation has failed.
For whatever your motives you are still being entangled supporting the USA’s/world’s Islamic Fascist, the Marxist, Dino/Rino & the rest of the American Hating Satanic/ Pedo types.
Now back on the topic of govt/Big Pharma spreading Cancer to people’s families. Below is one example of the gov’t/Pharma spreading cancer among Baby Boomers through the Polio Vaccine:
SV40, the vaccine gift that keeps on giving:
Now check out what these evil Authoritarian B*stards are up to today:
I’m sorry OKY, what “projections” have I made?
Give your address & I’ll send you a dictionary to help you out.
Why would Nazis or racists support Trump?
1. The mainstream media, Hollywood, and various political pundits keep proclaiming that Trump is a fascist Neo-Nazi racist. No matter how many times Trump says he is not affiliated with them, the whackos keep hearing that he’s their guy.
2. Anyone who opposes all immigration would also support a secure border. However, a secure border does not in any way undermine legal immigration. Legal immigration is comprised of more non-Caucasians than Caucasian’s. Therefore, supporting legal immigration is inherently not racist.
I am sorry for the loss of your mother and sister. They sound like they were good people.
I don’t like the term “Trump supporter”. There is no one with whom I disagree on all matters. When Trump makes what I think is a mistake, I criticize it. He has plenty of flaws. However, the Left has an obsessive hatred of him, elevating his personal flaws to Hitler. He is not an anti-Semite. He was never considered a racist until he ran for President as a Republican. In fact, he was featured in quite a a few rap music lyrics and paralance. While thinking they are fighting the good fight against fascism, the Left are actually employing fascist, dictatorial strategies themselves. They become what they hate. Extremism ruins everything it touches. Right now, it’s the Left abusing power in a tyrannical quest to destroy their political opponents. If the Right had absolute power over the Left, it would tempt them to abuse that power, too. The moderators and power checks are not doing their jobs.
If you count yourself lucky to only have one living Republican relative within first cousin or closer, does that mean that you and yours would have attacked them over politics? I hope not.
I do not like any ad hominem attacks, regardless of who does it. Although I acknowledge that there are those who go personal on both sides of the aisle, I hope you understand that such bias is institutionalized with the Left. A conservative will be attacked by not only occasional strangers online, but by pre-K through grad school professors, who will protect the fellow students who attack them, as well as the media and Hollywood. The DOJ, FBI, NSA, and IRS target conservatives. Big tech companies openly display bias and bigotry towards conservatives. They claim they will try to alter the next election through selective search engines. PayPal, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook are all biased against conservatives and engage in a shocking double standard. They silence and attack the livelihood of conservatives. The media has been so successful painting not only Trump, but all of his voters, as Nazi racists that it is physically unsafe for anyone to wear Trump apparel. That is shocking in America.
This is why I disagree that a few people making derogatory personal comments online are the same as the coordinated, institutional bias and harassment against conservatives, under color of government and academia.
Anon – do attacks on Democrats wearing Democrat clothing or displaying signs or bumper stickers occur with the same frequenency and violence, nationwide, as attacks on people wearing Trump clothing? Will Republican friends or family disown you should you purchase such Democrat items at the same rate that Democrats do so to Republicans?
As linked before Democrats are 3 times more likely to unfriend or disown friends and family over politics than Republicans.
The hate has really gotten old. I’ve experienced it for years now, but the escalation since 2016 has really turned me off. I used to think that Dems and Republicans were peas and carrots. One thought more taxes and spending would lead to prosperity for more people, while the other thought that more freedom, and less taxes lead to a better life for everyone. But they shared a common patriotic love of the country, were happy and proud to be American, and believed in individual liberty.
Now, there is this slander that if you are patriotic, you despise other countries. Ghandi and Nelson Mandela were patriots. They did not despise the rest of the world. They were just devoted to their own countries and people.
It’s gotten old. With each round of Democrat action – Obamacare taking access to health care away from the middle class, especially cancer patients, fighting the 2nd Amendment, attacking Christian business owners (but not daring t do so to Muslim business owners), silencing conservative speech on social media platforms and in universities, Antifa, riots, occupying Wall Street and ICE and leaving behind feces and needles, enabling mentally ill and addicted homeless to live in squalor and starvation on the streets instead of forcing them to get help, leaving, again, feces and needles behind, legalizing 9th month abortion and supporting infanticide of full term abortion survivors, supporting Socialism, which requires the removal of individual rights and will kill millions of people, suggesting air travel be banned, labeling ranchers the enemy…I find myself becoming more hardened than I would like. They lose me at every turn. I no longer feel like I have that common ground with Democrats that I once did. I miss those times when we were all working together, from different approaches, to improve the lives of Americans and give global charity abroad.
I sincerely believe that the current Democrat Party would create a dystopia in which millions of people would die by changing the US from a free country to a Socialist dictatorship. I don’t believe my Democrat grandparents would want anything to do with the party nowadays. My opposition to Democrat polices is very serious and sincere. I believe there is a lot at stake. The far Left, too, appears to believe it is fighting against dystopia as it assaults individual freedoms and becomes more intolerant of opposing ideas.
I apologize for becoming so upset with you earlier in my argument against Obamacare. It’s not your fault. I am frustrated that I have never been able to change anyone’s mind on Obamacare, that I know of. I’ve never even gotten someone to take a second look with an open mind, and review opposing data. Since Obamacare is so harmful to millions of people, I am disheartened. If I cannot change one person’s mind, the nation is doomed to keep going towards single payer, which is a very poor standard of care. We were happy with our affordable insurance and our doctors, so Democrat politicians took that away from us. They had to destroy the insurance industry to make people want single payer, but that will lead to extremely long wait times for care, and less quality of care. It’s like helplessly watching a train wreck. I should not have taken that frustration out on you, and I’m sorry.
Karen, a few things. Thanks for your comments regarding my mother and sister. My sister’s life was part tragedy but part inspiring and happy. The positive way she dealt with her life as it was is why she is my hero. My mother had 2 tragedies – the death of a son, my brother when only 3, and then my sister about a year before she died – were among the worst a parent imagines, but she otherwise had a full life to 93 with all her mental faculties and living in her own home until about 3 months before she passed when she came to live with us.
As to being “lucky” to only have one somewhat close republican relative, I meant in the sense that we don’t have the holiday horror stories. No, he isn’t beat up about his beliefs. we love him, though we don;t talk politics much.
You brought up Nazis and I mentioned the fact that the very few real Nazis in America tend to like Trump, and not any Democrats. That doesn’t make Trump or most of his supporters Nazi’s – just some of them.
Most democrats and substantial numbers of independents and traditional Republicans hate Trump. That’s a fact. It’s also a logical position, given that he’s an ignorant low life lying braggart and overall completely self centered and selfish indecent man – that’s a factual characterization of his behavior. If there is lingering doubt about that, his recent ghoulish behavior about McCain should remove all doubt. Sorry, but that’s the truth and you probably know that.
As to fear of attack, the political terrorism and murder in America is statistically from the right, not the left, and is greater than from Islamic terrorists. As to just garden variety violence, I live in the Deep South, as I said above. Good bet as to who would get more abuse walking around our small towns and cities – the guy with the Obama shirt or the MAGA hat. How about we denounce it all and not think keeping score justifies more hostility?
you & your commie/nazi DNC/Rino friends are such great citizens of the world:
Sorry Oky, I don’t get your point. Maybe you could expand on it.
I think most everyone wants to have the perfect family & often worry about what the gossip is saying about them & their family.
It just doesn’t always work out that way. Look at Cain & Able or the US Civil War pitting brothers against brothers, etc….
The movie Pleasantville addresses some these issues most face.
I think there’s at least a few clips here:
I loved that movie.
Thanks, honestlawyermostly. I would add that I believe in equal rights for everyone. No one or group should have “special privileges.” I don’t have the right to demand, under force of law, that anyone address me in any particular way, or describe me using certain adjectives. We may not have laws in the US against “misgendering” but we do have universities, Social Media, and the like punishing people for non compliance. That can affect someone’s college grades, future career, and people can lose their livelihoods. We are heading in the direction of gender pronouns being protected by de facto law, enforced by society and bureaucrats, even if it’s unconstitutional.
I do wonder how this issue will play out in the next decade.
Karen S, you always make so much sense and have such a nice way of expressing it. I’m envious!
Do you want to run for absolute ruler? I’m on the campaign if you do.
She has my vote.
Thanks, guys. That was really nice of you to say. FFS mentioned losing a friend over an opinion. It’s refreshing to be able to talk openly here on the blog about opinions and ideas with everyone. There is so much to learn, and political differences are declared upfront.
Karen….I concur with the others about your comment…..and all of your comments…….I feel like we’re being afforded college
credits in biology, or whatever the subject happens to be, just by reading them!
You are one of the brightest of the brights.
I want to be like Karen when I grow up!
That’s nice of you, Cindy. I get a lot more out of the blog than I give. This is a great place to learn, argue, and consider current events.
I do miss the good olde days..
When you had a problem with someone you either argued it out or duked it out in the middle of the street
The next day…
You both were having a drink together at the neighborhood dive bar
…and it was all over!
Where has civility gone?
That only worked with men, in my experience. Two school bullies could fight it out and be best buds the next day. Girls, though, can hold onto a grudge until they die. I think it is because they are denied the catharsis of just fighting it out and getting over it.
Boys are losing that catharsis as public education keeps forcing them to become more and more feminine.
well to some degree. and at the same time we have a renaissance of martial arts. there has never been a time like now, because of MMA, in terms of the ability to go out there and really learn to fight and actually fight without getting killed or locked up.
although, in the heyday of real catch wrestling, and the early experimentation with judo and jiu jitsu, like the 1920s, that was a good time too
if you want to fight, for fun and exercise, never been a better time in our lives than right now. so strong people including women can get in on that.
no the collapse in civility is cultural and fisticuffs on a one on one basis won’t redeem the loss. that is a devolution that like every other iron age will end either in ice or fire, before the instauration
And girls are being encouraged to get into physical alterations. Girl fighting is far more common now than it ever was before. Our culture loses something when males are taught to no longer be protective, and girls are taught that acting like a guy is laudable.
There is a trend in Hollywood to portray women as either just as tough as a man, or with superhero strength. We see women warriors blocking hulking men’s heavy claymores with a flick of the wrist. We are bombarded with images of women getting into fistfights with men, and winning. The audience cheers as a man punches a woman in the face. A movie I enjoy, Mr and Mrs Smith has this scene where Brad Pitt is kicking Angelina Jolie in the stomach. And it was an entertaining scene.
My gender used to be protected. If a man shoved a woman in a bar, a line of men would push their stools back and take the issue outside. What is going to happen to the newest generation of males, raised on these movies showing that it’s a fair fight between a man and a woman? Will they subconsciously internalize that it’s just as acceptable to get into a physical fight with a woman as it is a man?
It is as if the sexual dimorphism between males and females is a source of poor self esteem for feminists. If you are weaker than a male, can’t beat up a male, or you stay home and take care of children instead of working long hours, then you are somehow less than.
I think our culture decays when the differences between the sexes is viewed as a negative. It is also contrary to personal freedom to force boys to behave feminine and girls to behave masculine.
that reminds me of the joke. a gay guy walks into a bar and says, sir may I push in your stool?
so, the concept of freedom of speech is now just historical detritus?
A transgender woman commits a crime but the DNA evidence says that the perp was a man. What then?
RSA – that’s it, exactly. No matter what we legislate, or how well a transgender woman can pass, at some point in the future, a paleontologist digging up bones will identify the specimen as “male”. DNA evidence at a crime scene is “male.”
Another point that I failed to make is that transgender athletes are undermining Title IX. Biological males are wiping out biological females in competitions designed to give women their own arenas in which to compete. The women are getting forced out of the top tiers.
No one is transgender unless their genitalia have been altered. A boy dressed up as a girl is called a sissy. A girl dressed up as a boy is a tomboy. Both transvestite.
An adult male who has had the surgery and can pass as female in a shower has earned the right to the pronoun ‘she.’ Under Olympic rules she cannot compete as a female.
No transvestite should be allowed to participate in the sport they are dressed as. Especially in High School sports.
Congratulations to Ms. Farrow on her courage.
I fear that more Americans will be similarly tested in the near future.
This is not a right/left issue, this is a coming American problem that we must all defend against.
Orwell’s prediction has come true twenty-five years late.
2019 minus 1984 equals 35 years.
Always check my work.
No you need to obviously be reeducated. 2019-1984 = 25! Don’t make us send you to room 101.
I think this whole mess is a mix between 1984 and Brave New World. Maybe Brave New 84? Huxley warned about the sexualization of children, sex is only meant for fun and lets not forget the feelies.
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