Media, Politics, Society

Proud Boys and Antifa Emerge As The Winners From The Presidential Debate

Last night’s presidential debate left many of us in a deep depression over the state of our politics.  Once again, the duopoly of power in this country has reduced a population of over 300 million to two subpar choices. President Donald Trump’s conduct and comments have been rightfully denounced while Biden offered little beyond not being President Trump. There were however two clear and surprising winners last night: Proud Boys and Antifa. 

ANTIFA

When pressed by moderator Chris Wallace on why he has not been more clear in calling for Democratic mayors and governors to crackdown on rioting (including the use of the National Guard), Biden simply said that he was not the president. However, not only is that irrelevant, Biden has been forceful in calling for other actions on these protests and other issues like the pandemic despite his private citizen status. Yet, the most notable aspect of his exchange with Wallace was his reluctance to denounce Antifa.  Instead, Biden referenced FBI Director Christopher Wray’s statement that Antifa was more of a movement than an organization. Biden simply dismissed the question with “Antifa is an idea, not an organization.” It was a telling and inaccurate statement.

We previously discussed Wray statement.  Wray was adamant: “Antifa is a real thing. It’s not a fiction” and, while it is not a conventional organization as opposed to a movement, they have arrested people who admit that they are Antifa.”

I testified in the Senate on Antifa and its history of violence on our campuses and streets. As I have written, Antifa is indeed more of a movement than a specific organization, but it has members and associated groups. Indeed, it has long been the “Keyser Söze” of the anti-free speech movement, a loosely aligned group that employs measures to avoid easy detection or association.  Wray stated “And we have quite a number — and I’ve said this quite consistently since my first time appearing before this committee — we have any number of properly predicated investigations into what we would describe as violent anarchist extremists and some of those individuals self-identify with Antifa.”

I have repeatedly emphasized that extreme right groups are also responsible for recent violence and Wray made clear that far right violence still dominates in terms of a threat profile.  Moreover, I have opposed declaring Antifa a terrorist organization.  We have ample laws to deal with such extremist violence from the far left or far right. We do not need to rely on terrorism laws or most recently suggested sedition laws. Yet, Antifa is more than some “idea.” The Antifa Handbook discusses how it uses an association of groups, including self-identified Antifa groups, to carry out attacks on critics and those with opposing views.

My greatest concern is that we need to take Antifa seriously as a virulent anti-free speech organization.  There is a fair criticism of some politicians who have refused to denounce the group or even support it.  Former Democratic National Committee deputy chair Keith Ellison, now the Minnesota attorney general, once said Antifa would “strike fear in the heart” of Trump. This was after Antifa had been involved in numerous acts of violence and its website was banned in Germany. His own son, Minneapolis City Council member Jeremiah Ellison, declared his allegiance to Antifa in the heat of the protests this summer.

During the recent hearing, Democratic senators also refused to clearly denounce Antifa and falsely suggested that the far right was the primary cause of recent violence.

Biden continued this bizarre reluctance of Democratic leaders to denounce Antifa, which includes specific groups like Rose City Antifa. It is not just “an idea.” It is a collection of groups, including self-identified Antifa groups, that carry out violence against those who oppose their anti-free speech agenda.

Antifa received a huge boost from Biden’s equivocal response. It wants to be dismissed as “an idea” while organizing violent protests and rioting.  That is precisely what it got last night with Biden’s remarks.

PROUD BOYS

Perhaps the most disturbing statement of the evening was President Trump response to Wallace on denouncing white supremacy and actions of far right groups.  It should have been an easy question and answer, but Trump seemed to struggle to avoid an outright condemnation.

When pushed Trump declared “Sure, I’m willing to (tell them to stand down), but I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing. I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace.”   Wallace and Biden pushed back and Trump said “Who would you like me to condemn?” Biden could be heard twice saying, “Proud Boys.” Trump responded “Proud Boys — stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what. I’ll tell you what. Somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem.”
The statement for The Proud Boys to “stand by” thrilled the extremist group.  The group even shared a new logo online that included the phrase “stand back and stand by.”

The President has struggled after his statement that there were many fine people on both sides in Charlottesville.  The President has maintained that he was not speaking of the extremists but the debate of the preservation of historical statues. However, he has repeatedly equivocated in such comments about far right groups. Last night was in my view far more serious than the Charlottesville statement.  The President has offered an alternative meaning of his line of Charlottesville and he did contemporaneously denounce the violence on both sides. However, here was an opportunity to clearly denounce the far right violence and instead he told them to “stand by.”

As I stated in my earlier testimony, far right groups have historically been more lethal in past attacks and indeed there is some evidence of far right groups fueling violence after the George Floyd killing.  Antifa has also been involved in the violence.  Both should be denounced, but the Democratic candidate equivocated on Antifa while the Republican candidate equivocated on Proud Boys. The implications could not be more precarious for the country.  As our divisions deepen and anger rises, both politicians are playing a dangerous game in currying favor with extremist groups on the left and right. By not clearly denouncing such groups, these politicians give them legitimacy or help them evade responsibility in their actions.

George Washington University student Jason Charter has been charged as the alleged “ringleader” of efforts to take down statues across the capital. Charter has been an active Antifa member on campus for years. Following his arrest, he claimed the “movement is winning.” It is winning. It is winning mostly since people remain silent. Silence kills free speech. Antifa knows that.

The same is true for The Proud Boys and other far right groups like Boogaloo. They do not want or need support. They need the silence and passivity of the public and those in power.

That is why the great winners last night were The Proud Boys and Antifa.

564 thoughts on “Proud Boys and Antifa Emerge As The Winners From The Presidential Debate”

  2. THREAD CLOSED TO LIBERALS

    Unfortunately some of our liberal commenters were singling out Donald Trump’s debate performance and ignoring Joe Biden’s inability to denounce ANTIFA. Consequently our Blog Troll has put this thread under martial law. Only Trump supporters may comment for the remainder of this news day. We regret this inconvenience.

    Blog Explainer

  3. Biden was definitely being coached via an earpiece last night. Notice instances where Biden got over-heated he immediately stopped himself, regained control and scaled back his anger? He was being coached. Undoubtedly.

        1. Dummy, based on prior experience it is reasonable to look at a democrat and consider cheating and fraud.

          1. All of Allan’s nutty comments are the subject of a new book: “Projection”

            Repugs like Allan see “cheating and fraud” around every corner because they themselves are cheaters and fraudsters.

            1. Allan is too lazy to read the Forbes article debunking it, even though the link is just below on the page. He’d rather make snide remarks.

              1. That is a Stupid comment by a Stupid person. I never claimed there was a wire. But you lie as usual making claims that are wrong.

            2. Ever hear of the Steele Dossier?
              The Russian spy involved in that document?
              The Russia box?
              Clintons Emails?
              The weaponization of the intelligence community by Obama Biden?

              Yet you think I see cheating and fraud around every corner. That makes you either Stupid or a liar. Choose one or both.

                1. Why don’t you answer the question Anonymous the Stupid. Not smart enough?

                  Ever hear of the Steele Dossier? The Russian spy involved in that document? The Russia box? Clintons Emails? The weaponization of the intelligence community by Obama Biden? Yet you think I see cheating and fraud around every corner.

  4. “The statement for The Proud Boys to “stand by” thrilled the extremist group. The group even shared a new logo online that included the phrase “stand back and stand by.”
    ****************************
    Someone want to explain to me why the Proud Boys are an extreme right wing hate group. Lots of assuming here but no proof that I see. The SPLC scammers don;t impress me. The FBI doesn’t think so. Why should I?

    1. The Proud Boys was founded in 2016 by Gavin McInnes, a neo-nazi. They have admitted to participating in the 2017 “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, an event organized by white nationalists that erupted in violence and death. Their members identify as neo-nazis, Skinheads and their rhetoric is mysogynistic and espouses white supremacy. They self-describe as an organization of “western chauvinists.” I wonder what they mean by that. Hmm.

      1. The organizer of the Charlottesville rally has endorsed Joe Biden for president. Will Biden disavow?

          1. Trump has disavowed white supremacy a gazillion times. But they keep asking him to disavow. Has any journo asked Biden or Harris to disavow Antifa and BLM violence? Of course not.

            1. Trump didn’t condemn white supremacy last night, when asked.

              Biden last night: “the vast majority of police officers are good, decent, honorable men and women. They risk their lives every day to take care of us, but there are some bad apples. And when they occur, when they find them, they have to be sorted out. They have to be held accountable. … we have to have a system where people are held accountable when -. And by the way, violence in response is never appropriate, never appropriate. Peaceful protest is [appropriate], violence is never appropriate. … the violence should be prosecuted. It should be prosecuted and anyone who committed it should be prosecuted.”

              1. He condemned violence which so happens to be coming mostly from the left. Biden loves police officers. That is why even his handlers have given to the Bail Out project that Bailed Out dangerous felons that went on to kill people. I am not sure but one of those felons might even have killed the police.

                Biden has been totally weak on violence. All he says is we shouldn’t be violent like telling a bully that it isn’t nice to beat up people smaller than you. He never tied the violence to the perpetrators. He let the violence continue and he let the cities burn.

        1. What’s in a label, Arty.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_McInnes

          McInnes is known for his controversial promotion of violence against political opponents, and has been described as far-right…

          He is the founder of the Proud Boys, a neo-fascist[14] men’s group classified as a “general hate” organization by the Southern Poverty Law Center.[15] He has rejected this classification, claiming that the group is “not an extremist group and [does] not have ties with white nationalists”.[16] He holds both Canadian and British citizenship and currently lives in Larchmont, New York.[7]

          In 2018, McInnes was banned from Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram for violating terms of use related to promoting violent extremist groups and hate speech.[17][18] In June 2020, McInnes’s account was suspended from YouTube for violating YouTube’s policies concerning hate speech, posting content that was “glorifying [and] inciting violence against another person or group of people.”[19]

          Excerpts from Wikipedia

      3. roy frankhouser, a big fat pig of a klucker in the 60s who went on to testify for the federal government on numerous occasions, who also curiously was the “bodyguard” of the odd leftist character lyndon larouche, said once that “in the 60s half the klan were informants or undercovers.” and by that he meant the kkk back when they actually did something besides swill beer and sell pillowcases. i mean the klan back in the Civil Rights era, when they killed people. yes, half of them were undercovers or informants according to an informant who the government found credible enough to put on the witness stand to prove its cases again and again

        be careful who you trust in these third hand reports of who is a bad guy or not

        now i wont even get into this one, but here’s a taste: “hijacker’s former landlord was an FBI informant”

        https://www.cnn.com/2002/US/09/11/ar911.hijackers.landlord/

        oh wait. did we ever figure out why the FBI didn’t tell the 9/11 commission about what they knew about Atta and the people paying his rent bills?

        https://www.floridabulldog.org/ 2011/09/fbi-found-direct-ties-between-911-hijackers-and-saudis-living-in-florida-congress-kept-in-dark/

        yeah, fool me once, twice, a hundred times, where then lies the shame?

      4. They specifically told their members not to attend Charlottesville. What they mean by Western Chauvinists is that they celebrate Western culture and its many scientific and economic achievements. Such as Isaac Newton’s work and the green revolution which was created by Norman Borlaug. Other races are welcome to participate in Western culture, but the members believe Western culture is something to be defended against backwards medieval cultures such as Islam.

    2. Mespo said. “Someone want to explain to me why the Proud Boys are an extreme right wing hate group. Lots of assuming here but no proof that I see. The SPLC scammers don;t impress me. The FBI doesn’t think so. Why should I?”

      “FBI now classifies far-right Proud Boys as ‘extremist group’, documents say”

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/19/proud-boys-fbi-classification-extremist-group-white-nationalism-report

      But as mespo says, “The FBI doesn’t think so. Why should I?”

      1. certain fbi hacks will classify anything as a threat that potentially may increase their budgets. they hedge their bets with remarks like that. otherwise not very helpful

        one day it’s the chicoms, next day it’s the russkies. next day the black panthers and then the klan. then it’s the jihaadists, then it’s somebody else. one government agency has groups like the Kurdish whatever on the terror list, and another government agency funds them and sells them guns. this kind of stuff happens again and again.

        now they have finally found some white racists except they arent racists just “Western chauvinists”

        SPLC has been working on denouncing the Proud Boys for years now. But consider that SPLC was founded by a direct-mail-millionaire named Morris Dees who for decades was ‘harassing women and people of color” at the SPLC and neither his left hand man Cohen nor his top team of “investigators” aka yellow journalists muttered a peep about it.

        Then it sprang wide open and then the chief harasser of people of color ie Morris Dees the racist who made millions suing racists, and his clique of enablers, had to go

        https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-reckoning-of-morris-dees-and-the-southern-poverty-law-center

        this story was rich in irony especially considering the fact that various racists who had been sued by Dees claimed, and nobody listened, that Dees himself was a racist. Nobody believed them, the SPLC raked in half a billion dollars into its endowment, before the harassed women and people of color at SPLC finally rebelled and squealed enough times to the media that Dees was toppled.

        ————————-

        and this also reminds me of another messy story from decades ago about the redneck racists, who were surveilled by the hate-hater morris dees and also federal law enforcement

        the story concerns the ATF informant Carol Howe, a racist lady snitching on her friends, who was handled jointly as a source not only by ATF but Morris Dees.

        she was at a poor little community of racists called Elohim city where people were training with explosive devices and talking bad ideas about the Murrah Federal building in OKC
        she diligently reported this dangerous activity to ATF we know for sure because her report has been FOIA’d.

        this was a couple weeks before McVeigh drove the ryder truck there and blew the place up. Gee, why didn’t atf grab these evildoers before they made good on plans?

        Why did not they nor morris dees warn the public?

        were there other sources being worked by the intelligence community there, of various nations and agencies, such as Andreas Strassmeier?
        were there other snitches giving info to FBI who may have helped pack that awful truck? such as Shawn Kenny? maybe we will never know. many wonder!

        be careful with these schemers folks, they are cunning, amoral, and supremely capable operators. be careful if you think that a bunch of beer drinking good old boys in overhauls are something to be feared and the suited SPLC’s “Intelligence Report” lawyers, informant handlers, yellow journalists and socalled FBI “analysts” are not. take all these socalled “reports” with a grain of salt, and I mean a handful of the big fat pink Himalayan crystals, not just a wee little pinch of iodized salt, either.

        1. lest anyone think that there are no good fbi agents, there are. here’s a retired movement to reform it.

          I introduce you to the brick agent underground

          http://brickagentunderground.com/

          “Incompetence and personal ambition within the FBI’s executive management are fatally degrading the world’s finest law enforcement organization. In the clubby, insular FBI Senior Executive Service, executives protect each other, display little leadership ability and have a glaring lack of experience working on the street. Their objectives are career advancement in the FBI and obtaining premium employment in retirement. Self-interest and allegiance to the SES Club are fundamentals entrenched in the culture of their ranks. The resulting aura of secrecy and self-preservation, unfortunately, is being mistaken by Congress and the public as a wider, “FBI Culture”.
          How we got Here: Bureaucrats gained their stranglehold over the FBI by corrupting the promotion system. Turning it into a mysterious, backroom process without transparency or accountability. Executives pretend to have established a fair and open promotion process within the FBI. The truth is, those rising to the executive ranks are often the lesser talented investigative agents. They routinely attain promotions through networking and tacit pledges of allegiance to other executives in the club, rather than for their own accomplishments or leadership ability. Through sheer personal fortitude, brick agents have productive careers despite being forced to operate within what has become a suffocating, gamed, bureaucracy. Yes, there are a small number of FBI executives who are highly competent investigators. Yes, there are a small number of executives who are inspiring and thoughtful leaders. A few are heroes. Unfortunately, those few heroes are far outnumbered and often shouted down by legions of incompetent, petty, self-promoters within the executive ranks. Executive management has gotten away with hiding overwhelming examples of their incompetence. Sadly, many have hijacked parts of the organization to satisfy personal agendas. Executives reward one another with rigged-up promotions in exchange for mutually pledged loyalty and for maintaining secrecy about embarrassing, audacious incidents within their ranks. A sort of, “FBI job trade program” as one executive bluntly referred to it. The incidents of incompetence are more than just isolated gaffes. Their volume and brazenness prove that systemic, deeply rooted flaws exist in the FBI’s accountability process for executives. They are an evidence trail of a failed promotion system and demonstrate the existence of a closed network that protects their own.
          Picture 6.jpg
          images-8.jpg
          bba4e674-f4c4-11e3-_717081c.jpg
          images.jpg
          Why it’s Important: America’s new enemies are vicious, hard targets. They are unusually determined to achieve their goals. The stakes have always been high but more so now. We are warned that terrorists could detonate a dirty bomb in the U.S. A significant threat exists for our cyber annihilation. Hostile, cunning foreign intelligence officers pose a lethal danger. Assains attack our schools and businesses, our financial markets are under siege by sophisticated, organized transnational crime cartels. Corruption is rampant. The fight is being valiantly waged by FBI line-level employees while upper-level managers too often distract them. Executives set bureaucratic minefields to navigate or lack experience and abilities to instill proper command and control to win investigative and intelligence collection battles. Employees at the FBI proudly stand as part of the Thin Blue Line but in many situations we’re the last Blue Line. Getting the most talented leaders into the FBI executive ranks and holding them accountable is of critical importance to our Nation’s security.
          Managers in recent years have taken the FBI far off track, nearly bankrupting it. A tipping point has been reached; the struggle to correct it must be undertaken now before it is too late. This Site is just one step in what will be a long, hard fight. Someone had to start this fight. Encouraged that the struggle has been undertaken, other employees will advance better ideas along with improved methods of implementing them. FBI leadership will improve dramatically because of it. “

              1. Next time why don’t you look it up yourself?

                While you are at it look up the corruption files of Joe and Hunter Biden.

                1. You’re a hypocrite, Allan.

                  When Paulie J. asked “the Chinese hacked Trump’s phone soon after he took office?,” you responded “Prove it.” You didn’t ask yourself “why don’t I look it up myself?”

                  You told Prairie Rose, “Prairie, I don’t have to prove it. You are the one making the assertations.”

                  I asked the person who made the assertion to prove it. If that’s good enough for you, it’s good enough for me, right?

                  1. The statement Mespo made was a clear statement and he is credible.

                    Paulie was not credible proven wrong too many times. The question was not specific enough. i seem to remember something about this and it was brought up the phone Trump used as President was a different phone.

                    The anonymous label is not credible. Too many people and some or all have not been credible. There is no way for another to be sure so you are stuck having to prove what you said at the time you said it.

                    2. Should I ignore the $3.4 million hunter got from the Moscow Mayor?
                      Should I ignore the $1 Billion plus investment Hunter got from China.

                      Should I ignore Biden’s enrichment of his family while selling America out?

                    3. You think mespo727272 is credible? Hahaha! You’re a tad biased, bro. I bet you think you’re credible too.

                    4. Being credible doesn’t mean one agrees with another’s opinion. It means that they try to provide the best facts they have at the time.

                      You and your colleagues Anonymous the Stupid, the Brainless Wonder and Anonymous the Lie believe being credible is lying to protect a cherished position. It’s pretty sad that supposed adults are so ignorant and so not credible.

                      It is also sad that you are unable to comment with facts about the subject at hand and have to use adjectives describing one that does.

          2. The one that can’t own an individual name or icon is asking another for proof?

            People should be looking at you with disbelief but apparently someone provided an answer below.

            You haven’t found a significant issue that is disputed where you can prove your case or even make a good argument for it. Intellectually you are like your name. It’s missing.

        2. mespo727272,

          The Washington Post article below links to an Oregonian article as the source. The Oregonian article says “Cannon said in relation to the Proud Boys, the FBI “tried to characterize the potential threat from individuals within that group.’’ The bureau doesn’t designate groups but does investigate violent conspiracies, he said. … Mark Pitcavage, a senior research fellow with the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism, said he’s not surprised by Cannon’s remarks about the Proud Boys. “I think Cannon took pains to clarify the FBI’s stance not because FBI agents don’t recognize the extremist nature of the Proud Boys but rather in order to stress that the FBI does not keep lists of different extremist groups, nor does is it investigate extremists simply because they are extremists,” Pitcavage said.”

          According to Agent Cannon, the FBI just doesn’t designate groups that way, so their not designating the Proud Boys that way isn’t evidence for the Proud Boys either way, and you’re looking in the wrong place if you think the FBI will tell you whether the Proud Boys are an extreme right wing hate group.

          Other than the FBI, what kind of evidence would convince you?

          1. “Other than the FBI, what kind of evidence would convince you?”
            *************************
            Oh setting fires in black neighborhoods spray painting “PB” on looted store fronts, blocking traffic, making thugs shot by cops heroic martyrs, railing against civilization, chanting “cops fry like bacon,” you know that sort of thing,

            1. So look up what Proud Boys have been arrested and convicted for. Let me know if you need help with the search terms.

                  1. You are making derogatory claims against a group. You are either a libeler or you can produce evidence of your claims.

                    1. I’ve made a total of three comments on this article. None had derogatory claims.

                    2. Bill, I’ll take your word for it but I seem to remember you saying derogatory things about Trump without proof. If you say you didn’t I’ll believe you.

              2. a couple got convicted because they roughed up a couple of antifa types harassing speakers at a public event. they claimed self defense and were convicted anyhow. personally i believe the proud boys that they acted in self defense but i wasnt on the jury

                harassment of people at public events and blue city police chiefs failing to provide security and allowing the “heckler’s veto” is the real crime problem, not a couple toughs finally hitting back.

                proud boys have provided security at a lot of public events that needed it due to antifa intimidation according to one lady who needed it I heard on the radio yesterday, anne coulter.

                of course Democrats hate ann coulter so they approve antifa type crowds of leftists attacking her events and intimidating people

                proud boys thus is apparently a force for social good and law and order.

                I have also learned in the past 24 hours the LA chapter is majority mexican american and the florida chapter is majority Cuban. so much for them being “supremists” another fake news lie from the mass media!

                public law and order and free speech are worth defending. all the events that have been cancelled because of antifa style intimidation the past 20 years are a form of protection racketeering and RICO should be used against the criminals who want to silence their politically incorrect targets with violence and threats and riot and so forth

                1. “a couple got convicted because they roughed up a couple of antifa types harassing speakers at a public event. they claimed self defense and were convicted anyhow. personally i believe the proud boys that they acted in self defense but i wasnt on the jury”

                  You must be talking about the NYC case. I was there close to the timeframe it happened. What you surmise is likely what occurred. NYC has a mayor that is extremely political and has done a lot of bad things. Even the leftists are unhappy.

    3. Mespo, you may or may not have read that COVID deaths are up in Virginia. Here is the background information the Richmond Times Dispatch is not reporting.

      A neighborhood alcoholic died 3 months ago. It appears he fell asleep in bed with a lit cigarette. Mattress caught fire, smoke billowed everywhere, house burned to a crisp. HIs death certificate stated his death was due to COVID-19. A friend’s coworker passed away back in June. He weighed 550 lbs, had heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, gangrene in both legs, hadn’t seen a doctor in decades, ate greasy burgers, starches and sugary beverages. His death was ruled due to COVID-19. Two years ago during the challenging winter Richmond had, the park across from our home had a tree fall on a fence, that snapped a cable that struck a dog, which caused the dog to bite the rabbit, which in turn fled and bumped up against a cricket, which jumped on a person who was startled, causing him to fall off a cliff near the river, where a Great White Shark devoured him. Great Whites in the James River! Who knew!! Cause of death? COVID-19. These 3 deaths do have a happy ending though: all 3 deaths will be voting for Biden-Harris on 2 separate attempts in November.

      We are off to practice shooting with my sling shot at the local OK Corral with friends. Hope those pesky ANTIFA ideas aren’t circulating in the air.

            1. We can tell who the liar is with an easy test. Who uses an anonymous name and the standard icon?

              The one that lies and wishes to hide behind total anonymity.

              1. Some people with names and icons lie, some don’t. Some people who post anonymously lie, some don’t.

                You use a name and sometimes two icons, Allan, and you lie daily.

                1. I use one icon for responses and on icon signing onto a new thread. They have never changed. Nor has my name.

                  You have hid behind an anonymous icon and name continuously hiding with a bunch of similar folk. That is the test of a liar that you fail.

              2. Allan, It’s easy to ignore the comments of those who post anonymously, but you can’t stand it when you don’t get your way. You want anonymous comments to be banned and JT allows them… So you just piss all over these threads, making demands, insulting people… Get over yourself.

                1. I want honesty and anonymity promotes dishonesty. It detracts from the discussion and permits you to hide.

                  Let’s get it out in the open based on our individual particular beliefs.

                  Do you believe in court packing?

                  (Biden didn’t answer the question.)

    4. mespo…………Good point.
      What made me mad was the WAY Chris asked the question…………”Will you be willing tonight to denounce white supremacists”………?
      Be willing???? Really?? Who wouldn’t be “willing” to denounce white supremacists??!!
      Btw, Chris’ daddy interviewed Honest about 25 years ago in Austin……ah, the good ol’days…………

        1. mespo……..it was kind of like that……all Honest knew was he was to meet CBS in a specified room at 4 Seasons at 2 pm. one day
          He was rushing back from Dallas……….got to 4 Seasons rushed up to the room, went in, sat down and realized he was sitting a few feet from Mike. .lol…….He didn’t like him…..said.he strutted sitting down.

          By the way, Honest has volunteered to help Trump legally, by joining a legal team as a volunteer, here in Central Texas, in case the Dems try to steal election…..Attorneys all over the country are volunteering………..Honest has been “deputized” or whatever…lol
          Have you heard about it???

            1. LOL mespo………..David said a local attorney friend told him about it. Also, he thinks the information is on the Trump website.

            2. Mespo– Wallace was doing a 60 Minutes piece on how the Texas Trial Lawyers bought the Texas Supreme Court. I did an exhaustive analysis of contribution records and published a report that proved that the defense bar in Texas had contributed far more to Supreme Court justices than the trial lawyers. My ego got a kick out of being interviewed by Mike Wallace but the interview did not air. My belief is it disproved a central thesis of the 60 Minutes piece. In other words, Chris Wallace’s dishonesty apparently was inherited.

              1. Do they permit you a copy of the tape? Did you make a tape?

                Being interviewed by the left means one has to protect themselves from errant editing. Now a days they sometimes annotate the interview with their spin while the interview is being shown.

                1. Allan– I don’t have a copy; I do have some experience with what you have said. There was a TV reporter in Houston (“Best Little Whorehouse in Texas” was based on him). He came to Austin to see the Attorney General who would not see him. They sent him over to me. We did the interview but he went back to Houston and edited the questions to make my answers seem pretty harsh. We remained friends until his death. You have to be watchful but you can’t take it personally.

  6. BREAKING!!!! BIDEN TO BE SUED BY ATTORNEY LIN WOOD!!!!

    Kyle Rittenhouse attorney to sue Joe Biden for defamation over ‘false’ white supremacist ad

    Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden ran a heavily edited campaign ad after Tuesday night’s presidential debate that may cost him more than the fee paid to air the spot.

    The ad capitalized on a wholly dishonest assessment by the candidate and his allies in the media that President Trump refused to condemn white supremacy — included in the deceptive ad was a photograph of Kyle Rittenhouse, the 17-year-old who killed two protesters attacking him in Kenosha, Wisc., and wounding a third.

    Lin Wood, the attorney representing Rittenhouse took to social media Wednesday morning to announce a lawsuit has been filed.

    “In addition to suing Facebook for being falsely accused of being mass murderer, Kyle Rittenhouse has defamation claim against Joe Biden for falsely accusing him of being white supremacist & militia member responsible for violence in Kenosha,” the attorney tweeted. “Candidate Biden = Defendant Biden.”

    https://twitter.com/LLinWood

  7. The statement made by Trump following the Charlottesville tragedy, the one where he said there were good people on both sides, is accurate b/c the fact of the matter is Virginian’s from across the state attended both in support or against the removal of the Lee statue in a downtown park. My niece attended, a Lefty, to stand in support of the statues removal while neighbors attended who were anti. Neither belong to any group. They are simply Virginians who wished to express their opinion pro/anti.

    More importantly, the events on the evening prior to the next day’s march to the park are two separate events. People keep conflating the two and treating them as a singular event. They aren’t. When you take Trump’s comment and put it into context he is responding to the events that took place regarding the Park/statue removal event.

    Know, as a Virginian our history means a lot to us. We take pride in some and not so much in others. But it’s our history. So when said history is challenged folks in Virginia tend to engage. Many of the good folk who supported/opposed the removal of the Lee statue were good Virginians who were pro or anti.

    As for Antifa v The Proud Boys – what Turley intentionally failed to assert correctly was Wallace’s cheap shot when adding ‘militias’ to the Proud Boy line. That word ‘militia’ goes back to our founding. It served no purpose other than a Lefty political jab. Wallace knew it. It’s why he did it. The militia has a long and proud history in America whereas the Proud Boys, just like every other group, has an entirely different objective. Wallace knew he was conflating two entirely separate entities for the sole purpose of gotcha. Well, Trump didn’t bite b/c it was a stupid ‘gotcha’ question that small minds seem to enjoy asking and apparently good lawyers fail to quote accurately.

  8. Minnesota AG Keith Ellison’s son: ‘I hereby declare, officially, my support for ANTIFA’

    https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/06/01/minnesota-ag-keith-ellisons-son-i-hereby-declare-officially-my-support-for-antifa-928553

    It is apparently all in the family for the Ellisons, now that the Minnesota Attorney General’s son has publicly declared his support on social media for Antifa, the radical-left group of anarchists that are believed to be behind the nationwide anarchy in the aftermath of the death of George Floyd in police custody.

    In a tweet yesterday, Jeremiah Ellison, the son of AG Keith Ellison and a member of the Minneapolis city council, wrote the following in response to President Trump’s announcement that intends to designate Antifa as a terrorist organization. The younger Ellison assigned blame for the civil unrest on “white power” terrorists.

    “I hereby declare, officially, my support for ANTIFA Unless someone can prove to me ANTIFA is behind the burning of black and immigrant owned businesses in my ward, I’ll keep focusing on stopping the white power terrorist THE ARE ACTUALLY ATTACKING US!”

    I hereby declare, officially, my support for ANTIFA

    Unless someone can prove to me ANTIFA is behind the burning of black and immigrant owned businesses in my ward, I’ll keep focusing on stopping the white power terrorist THE ARE ACTUALLY ATTACKING US! https://t.co/m6jxtDYmTi

    — Jeremiah Ellison (@jeremiah4north) May 31, 2020

    Jeremiah’s dad Keith, a former congressman and the vice chair of the Democratic National Committee, is or was allegedly a big fan of Antifa.

    As Fox News reported, “Keith Ellison has previously signaled support for the Antifa movement, tweeting in 2018 about a book promoting it. In a post on Twitter, Ellison said that he found the book ‘Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook’ at a Minneapolis book shop and said it would ‘strike fear in the heart of @realDonaldTrump.’ The post now appears to be deleted, but social media critics have circulated a photo of Ellison holding the book in recent days.

  9. “It’s China, stupid!”

    – James Carville (paraphrased)
    _________________________

    President Trump will kick a– and take names.

    Milquetoast Biden will kiss a– and take bribes.

  10. Biden continued this bizarre reluctance of Democratic leaders to denounce Antifa,

    Antifa is Democratic Party muscle.

    1. Phony Anthony “Van” Jones is an anti-American, anti-Constitution, unrepentant and irredeemable communist.
      Phony Anthony “Van” Jones has never created a dollar of wealth.
      Van Jones lives to covet.

    2. “As someone who spent two months covering the aftermath of the most widespread riots in at least 50 years, this never-ending fixation with illusory organized “white supremacist” groups couldn’t be more absurd. It’s 99% a media invention totally disconnected from reality.

      Trump has rejected the premise of “WILL YOU DISAVOW???” questions for five years because the questions are virtually always asked in bad faith. And the term “white supremacist” has been stretched beyond recognition, so who exactly would he be “condemning.”

      I get called a “white supremacist” because I occasionally appear on Fox News. So I have no idea who the term “white supremacist” is supposed to refer to any more, because the earlier definition — those who affirm the superiority of whites — is apparently no longer operative.

      I think it’s a bunch of manufactured theater and hysteria that bears almost zero relation to the actual power dynamics operative in this election.” @mtracey (Roving Reporter)

  13. Going oVer the list Biden as expected just regurgitated and took credit for or tried to make it a suggestion that was new out of accomplishments Trumps already done no matter how much the socialist party got in the way. Biden apparently unexpected or it was it just the expected attaboy from the biased press came out looking……. bidenesque. So BIDEN where the hell is the $1200 and $500 you socialist blankety blanks are blocking from your own party members and their children? Figures Uncle Joe true to his stainesque name would duck anything to do with the common citizens.

  14. AND THE LIES KEEP COMING!!!!

    The Bombshell Memory Hole

    In the beginning of the Trump era, the press made errors and lied about them. Now it just denies they ever were
    Matt Taibbi
    Sep 29

    The New York Times published a massive expose about Donald Trump’s taxes on Sunday, starting the world on yet another trip up the Trump delirium coaster. The stages of the morality play are burned in our brains. Pundits scream bombshell, rush up a ladder of indignation, jump squealing into an abyss of apocalyptic predictions, dust off and do it again.

    How many of these stories have there been? A hundred? Five hundred? A thousand? I tried physically counting and gave up. Our heads are packed with years of half-told stories that were discarded the instant they stopped having commercial or political utility. Some involved Trump, some not, who can remember them all? From sonic weapons in Cuba to spies gone dark to a secret bank server to hacker huddles in Prague to probable cause for an “agent of a foreign power” to Mike Flynn’s mistress to the Manafort-Assange confab to the exfiltrated agent with a home on Realtor.com to Putin’s niece and treason in Helsinki and North Korea and the Oval Office, we remember beginnings and not ends.

    https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-bombshell-memory-hole-d20

    1. RE: ABOVE

      AND THE LIES KEEP COMING!!!!!

      This fall, Showtime released a movie about Jim Comey whose trailer features scenes of Russian prostitutes in a hotel elevator, on their way to give the Donald a pee show. This scene not only seems never to have happened but was revealed in recent weeks to have been spun by a Washington-based Brookings Institute analyst who was, no shit, the subject of an FBI counterintelligence investigation a decade ago. That doesn’t mean Igor Danchenko was a spy, but considering the awesome quantity of ink the pee story commanded across years of convulsive warnings about a compromised president, blue-state audiences at least deserved to hear this ridiculous development — and didn’t, apart from one item in the Washington Post and a Vox story pooh-poohing the news as a Republican fundraising stunt. For the rest of time, a plurality of the country will be frozen in the moment when this and dozens of other panic-switches were turned on, a campaign of titillating false starts now too numerous to be undone.

      Like many “bombshells,” the Times tax story contains real information, including potentially real outrages, like bank fraud or deducting consulting fees paid to his daughter. The headline revelation is Trump as metaphor for American finance generally, showing the appearance of wealth resting atop absurd fictions, with monster debts rolled into the next ice age and losses somehow appearing as his greatest assets, in ways inconceivable to regular people. At the end of the cycle, pundits will conclude that Trump has a story about being rich in place of actual wealth, making him (drumroll please) more like a con man than a tycoon.

      That this is the same analysis some of us made at the beginning of Trump’s national political run eons ago won’t matter. Nor will it matter that Trump’s returns ought to be as embarrassing to media antagonists and a string of “reputable” politicians as they are to him, given that it was screamed to high heavens for years, from op-ed pages and cable news panels and the floor of the U.S. Senate, that proof of secret links to Vladimir Putin would be found. This idea never had merit — no sane person can think an espionage conspiracy would be detailed in a tax return — but a parade of experts and officials contended just this, including Chuck Schumer, George Will, Rachel Maddow and countless others:

  16. “As I stated in my earlier testimony, far right groups have historically been more lethal in past attacks…” I’m sorry, what? Mao. Lenin. Just the two of them accounted for over 100 million deaths.

    But that was a telling moment alright, for a few seconds all three of them were stumped trying to come up with a white supremacist group that Trump could denounce. And the best they could come up with was the Proud Boys? They aren’t exactly a great example of “white supremacy,” considering their members are not all “white,” and they routinely denounce white nationalists and remove them from events. Biden and Wallace could have named the KKK instead – though that was created by Democrat party, and Trump’s already declared them a terrorist organization.

      1. Though he’s just as likely to stand back and watch them go at it – which would be good, too. Wallace squashed all the spontaneity out of the debate last night. I remember debates where moderators encouraged participants to engage their opponent, and here they actually wanted to, but Wallace had to play Mommy.

          1. What rules did Biden abide by when the Obama Biden administration weaponized the intelligence agencies?

            1. Above was Allan.

              What rules did Clinton abide by when she used a Russian spy and created a hoax?

              What rules did the Democrats abide by when they never accepted Trump as President and used every tactic they could that was destructive to the nation to unseat Trump?

                1. Allan likes to abuse people. He pretends that it’s the other person’s fault, using the same excuse as the batterer who say “You made me hit you.”

                    1. Once again one anonymous patting another on the shoulder for what.

                      You had nothing to do with the economy. Trump created the great economy you feed off of. You guys are parasites.

                  2. Were you beaten by your husband … or should I say wife?

                    You have real problems. But we are off topic.

                    Tell us about the Steele Dossier
                    The Russia Hoax
                    Hillary’s emails

                2. Allan says:September 30, 2020 at 8:03 PM

                  Mental midget.

                  Why, yes you are, Allan, but thanks for clarifying.

                  1. Anonymous the stupid, I’m waiting for you to demonstrate your intelligence.

                    Tell us about Hunter biden’s $3.4 million from the Moscow mayor or the more than $1biliion investment by the Chinese in Biden’s company. Tell us about Joe Biden’s stopping the investigation of Hunter.

                    Let’s hear something on topic.

    2. How about you prove that the Proud Boys regularly denounce and remove white nationalists from their events? Gavin McInnes, who was a Proud Boy, organized the Unite the Right rally, which had lots of white supremacists.

      Trump said he’d declare the KKK a terrorist organization, but he still hasn’t done it. He likes to talk.

      1. Look it up yourself. You’ve got time to retype msm propaganda, you have time to type a search. They have a web site. Start there if you want.

        1. You typed propaganda, and you want me to research it?
          Haaahaaahaa, that’s a good one.

          1. The joke is you. You’re repeating propaganda and apparently you don’t even realize it. You’re repeating the same tired accusations that have been shrieked for months. And you expect anyone who disagrees with your parroted cries of “Guilty!” to either confess or prove innocence. You got it backwards. It’s – Innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on you. That you reference Charlottesville is telling. That mess has been debunked all over the place, yet you insist on pinning your echo-chamber assertions on it.

            And yes, if you bothered to do any real research, I wouldn’t be wasting my time typing this. But I don’t expect you to. You don’t care enough – which is why I’m not wasting any more time on it.

  17. A MULTNOMAH SHERIFF DEPUTY DID, IN FACT, SUPPORT PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP
    __________________________________________________________________________

    A Multnomah County Deputy Chanted “Trump” At Voters Tuesday Afternoon
    by Dirk VanderHart • Nov 8, 2016 at 2:08 pm

    Voters waiting in line to cast their ballots near Multnomah County Election Division headquarters this afternoon…[got a surprise].

    According to one eyewitness, a Multnomah County Sheriffs deputy in a vehicle marked “Sheriff” rolled past a line of voters near SE Morrison and 11th chanting “Vote Trump” from his car. The Multnomah Count Sheriff’s Office says it’s aware of the incident, and has identified the deputy in question.

    1. The deputy isn’t the Sheriff. The Sheriff doesn’t support Trump. It’s 2020, not 2016.

      1. The deputy is a Deputy Sheriff and he supports President Donald J. Trump as do many sane Oregonians.

        1. Trump said “The Portland sheriff just came out today and said, ‘I support President Trump,'” Trump was lying. The Sheriff is Mike Reese, and Reese said “I have never supported Donald Trump and will never support him.”

          1. Then I guess they need a new sheriff, along with a new mayor, a new prosecutor and a new governor.

      2. Deputy Sheriff is close enough. Sometimes people make errors. You make errors most of the time and you are a nit picker.

  18. WALLACE: “And to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we’ve seen in Portland”

    So Wallace admits the violence going on throughout the country is coming from the Left and these so called right-wing groups are allegedly adding to the violence, not originating it. And when asked if he has spoken with any of the Democrat governors and mayors in these cities to end the violence, how did the man who said it’s his party respond to a question whether he’s contacted his parties governors and mayors to put an end to the violence? He’s just a private citizen. He’s a spineless coward.

  19. “How sad it must be believing that scientists, scholars, historians, economists, and journalists have devoted their entire lives to deceiving you, while a reality tv star with decades of fraud and exhaustively documented lying is your only beacon of truth and honesty.”

    1. Did anybody notice that Trump affirmed the role of anthropogenic CO2 emissions as a factor in global warming?

      And here you guys have been saying he is a ‘denier”

      and he was correct that better forest management practices are needed in california, too

      1. Since 60% of those California forests that caught fire belong to the US, and are managed by the Forestry Service, why hasn’t Trump done something about forest management? Oh, I know. A chance to get in a dig at Gavin Newsome.

        1. no because it is a valid issue

          they also adjoin state land areas that have been overdeveloped.

          if you are interested in the problems of land use and sustainable development in california, there are lots of resources. you can look them up. or think what you like

  20. Perhaps I haven’t been paying sufficient attention, but where have The Proud Boys committed violence?

Comments are closed.