Proud Boys and Antifa Emerge As The Winners From The Presidential Debate

Last night’s presidential debate left many of us in a deep depression over the state of our politics.  Once again, the duopoly of power in this country has reduced a population of over 300 million to two subpar choices. President Donald Trump’s conduct and comments have been rightfully denounced while Biden offered little beyond not being President Trump. There were however two clear and surprising winners last night: Proud Boys and Antifa. 

ANTIFA

When pressed by moderator Chris Wallace on why he has not been more clear in calling for Democratic mayors and governors to crackdown on rioting (including the use of the National Guard), Biden simply said that he was not the president. However, not only is that irrelevant, Biden has been forceful in calling for other actions on these protests and other issues like the pandemic despite his private citizen status. Yet, the most notable aspect of his exchange with Wallace was his reluctance to denounce Antifa.  Instead, Biden referenced FBI Director Christopher Wray’s statement that Antifa was more of a movement than an organization. Biden simply dismissed the question with “Antifa is an idea, not an organization.” It was a telling and inaccurate statement.

We previously discussed Wray statement.  Wray was adamant: “Antifa is a real thing. It’s not a fiction” and, while it is not a conventional organization as opposed to a movement, they have arrested people who admit that they are Antifa.”

testified in the Senate on Antifa and its history of violence on our campuses and streets. As I have written, Antifa is indeed more of a movement than a specific organization, but it has members and associated groups. Indeed, it has long been the “Keyser Söze” of the anti-free speech movement, a loosely aligned group that employs measures to avoid easy detection or association.  Wray stated “And we have quite a number — and I’ve said this quite consistently since my first time appearing before this committee — we have any number of properly predicated investigations into what we would describe as violent anarchist extremists and some of those individuals self-identify with Antifa.”

I have repeatedly emphasized that extreme right groups are also responsible for recent violence and Wray made clear that far right violence still dominates in terms of a threat profile.  Moreover, I have opposed declaring Antifa a terrorist organization.  We have ample laws to deal with such extremist violence from the far left or far right. We do not need to rely on terrorism laws or most recently suggested sedition laws. Yet, Antifa is more than some “idea.” The Antifa Handbook discusses how it uses an association of groups, including self-identified Antifa groups, to carry out attacks on critics and those with opposing views.

My greatest concern is that we need to take Antifa seriously as a virulent anti-free speech organization.  There is a fair criticism of some politicians who have refused to denounce the group or even support it.  Former Democratic National Committee deputy chair Keith Ellison, now the Minnesota attorney general, once said Antifa would “strike fear in the heart” of Trump. This was after Antifa had been involved in numerous acts of violence and its website was banned in Germany. His own son, Minneapolis City Council member Jeremiah Ellison, declared his allegiance to Antifa in the heat of the protests this summer.

During the recent hearing, Democratic senators also refused to clearly denounce Antifa and falsely suggested that the far right was the primary cause of recent violence.

Biden continued this bizarre reluctance of Democratic leaders to denounce Antifa, which includes specific groups like Rose City Antifa. It is not just “an idea.” It is a collection of groups, including self-identified Antifa groups, that carry out violence against those who oppose their anti-free speech agenda.

Antifa received a huge boost from Biden’s equivocal response. It wants to be dismissed as “an idea” while organizing violent protests and rioting.  That is precisely what it got last night with Biden’s remarks.

PROUD BOYS

Perhaps the most disturbing statement of the evening was President Trump response to Wallace on denouncing white supremacy and actions of far right groups.  It should have been an easy question and answer, but Trump seemed to struggle to avoid an outright condemnation.

When pushed Trump declared “Sure, I’m willing to (tell them to stand down), but I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing. I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace.”   Wallace and Biden pushed back and Trump said “Who would you like me to condemn?” Biden could be heard twice saying, “Proud Boys.” Trump responded “Proud Boys — stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what. I’ll tell you what. Somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem.”
The statement for The Proud Boys to “stand by” thrilled the extremist group.  The group even shared a new logo online that included the phrase “stand back and stand by.”

The President has struggled after his statement that there were many fine people on both sides in Charlottesville.  The President has maintained that he was not speaking of the extremists but the debate of the preservation of historical statues. However, he has repeatedly equivocated in such comments about far right groups. Last night was in my view far more serious than the Charlottesville statement.  The President has offered an alternative meaning of his line of Charlottesville and he did contemporaneously denounce the violence on both sides. However, here was an opportunity to clearly denounce the far right violence and instead he told them to “stand by.”

As I stated in my earlier testimony, far right groups have historically been more lethal in past attacks and indeed there is some evidence of far right groups fueling violence after the George Floyd killing.  Antifa has also been involved in the violence.  Both should be denounced, but the Democratic candidate equivocated on Antifa while the Republican candidate equivocated on Proud Boys. The implications could not be more precarious for the country.  As our divisions deepen and anger rises, both politicians are playing a dangerous game in currying favor with extremist groups on the left and right. By not clearly denouncing such groups, these politicians give them legitimacy or help them evade responsibility in their actions.

George Washington University student Jason Charter has been charged as the alleged “ringleader” of efforts to take down statues across the capital. Charter has been an active Antifa member on campus for years. Following his arrest, he claimed the “movement is winning.” It is winning. It is winning mostly since people remain silent. Silence kills free speech. Antifa knows that.

The same is true for The Proud Boys and other far right groups like Boogaloo. They do not want or need support. They need the silence and passivity of the public and those in power.

That is why the great winners last night were The Proud Boys and Antifa.

564 thoughts on “Proud Boys and Antifa Emerge As The Winners From The Presidential Debate”

  1. “FBI Warns of Far-Right Terrorism as Trump Boosts Hate Group”

    HEADLINE

    OCT 01, 2020

    https://www.democracynow.org/2020/10/1/headlines/fbi_warns_of_far_right_terrorism_as_trump_boosts_hate_group

    ‘In related news, The Nation magazine has revealed that the FBI has just issued an internal intelligence report warning of an imminent “violent extremist threat” posed by far-right militias, including white supremacists. The report cites the 2021 inauguration as a “potential flashpoint.” In the memo, the FBI’s Dallas field office warns of a “significant increase of violent social media posts of several boogaloo adherents in Texas which … indicate a propensity toward violence and acquiring weapons that cause mass casualties, used by a small number of attackers.” The FBI report was released on Tuesday, the same day that President Trump refused to disavow white supremacists during the debate. The Nation’s Ken Klippenstein broke the story.

    ‘Ken Klippenstein: “Yesterday at the debate, he said that most of the violence he’s seen is from the far-left groups. Once again, that same day, the FBI releases this intelligence report saying they’re worried about far-right groups. So it’s interesting to see this disjunct between what we’re hearing from the administration and the president, namely, and his own FBI director and his department.”’ -DemocracyNow

    1. Keep quoting the ones that helped create Biden’s terrible responses. Amy Goodman is paid $1Million per year to run this group by Soros and some other people. She is so far left I expect her to eventually end up on the other side of the aisle.

      The are not very trustworthy.

  2. Professor Turley is truly clueless, as evidenced by his bogus statement that “Trump seemed to struggle to avoid an outright condemnation [of white supremacy groups].” The President is not required to play by the leftist narrative that the left are the good guys and anyone who opposes the leftist destruction of America are the bad guys, although this narrative too reflects JT’s “mentality.” All of the violence by rioters across America originates from (or is inspired by) the leftist/Marxist groups, who go by the Orwellian named groups, antifa and blm. So, the President doesn’t have to pander to the leftist’s false and hypocritical anti-America narrative.

    And when the President asked the opposing debate team, consisting of Chris Wallace and Joe Biden, what “white supremacy” group(s) they were talking about, Biden suggested the Proud Boys, and Wallace concurred. So, Trump responded that he would like the Proud Boys to “stand down.” Of course, the lying left would like the public to believe that the Proud Boys are “white supremacists,” “racists,” “misonogysts,” and “zenophobic,” when they are actually nothing of the kind, so the leftist Biden/Wallace tag team either know absolutely nothing about them or are liars.

    For some insights into what the Proud Boys are really about and how the lying media presstitutes repeatedly and endlessly try to paint their bogus narrative about them, please see this video from a year ago:

    1. You talk about the “lying left,” and then you lie about Trump telling the Proud Boys to “stand down.”

      Trump told them to “stand back and stand by,” and they interpreted it as “get ready.”

      1. There is nothing wrong with “stand back and stand by”. In the same time frame Trump unequivocally stated he did not in violence and Trump has been willing to send in troops to quell the rioting and looting occurring in many cities. Even his actions demonstrate that he is will to stop violence immediately.

        That is not true of many democrat mayors and governors who would rather their cities burn and their citizens suffer.

        The left can guarantee one thing: Pain and suffering to American people.

        1. I’m sure that if Biden told Antifa to “stand back and stand by,” you’d say there is nothing wrong with it. (sarc)

          1. Anonymous, that was a good response until the sarc. Yes, I would say there is nothing wrong with that and then if they did not stand back and stand by I would hope he would offer troops to arrest them. Same with the Proud Boys.

            One tries to stop pending violence with words, but if they don’t suffice then one uses action.

            Didn’t you learn that in elementary school?

        2. After saying “stand back and stand by”, your fat hero said that somebody has to do something about the protesting. Context, Allan, context. The “stand by” and “someone has to do something” was a call to arms, and they took it as a license to plan on vigilantism. He never said “do not do bear arms,in my name” or “leave the protesters alone and don’t start trouble”. So you have a desperate narcissist who is losing in the polls, who is now telling his radical right-wing followers to “stand by”. He also suggested that his devotees “watch” the polls, and is already predicting hints of violence and lawsuits over the results of the election he stands to lose. He refuses to acknowledge that he will accept the will of the American people if they vote him out. This is the stuff of a despot.

          1. How will you top your already ridiculous video when Trump wins a 2nd term, the GOP takes over the US House, and the Senate Republicans stack the Supreme Court and do away with the Fillibuster?

              1. Who would have thought differently except if it was the other Anonymous taking.

                Do you get the point? Probably not.

          2. “After saying “stand back and stand by”, your fat hero said that somebody has to do something about the protesting.”

            No he didn’t. He said somebody had to do something about the violence. We all believe in protesting. We don’t believe in offensive violence.

          3. “After saying “stand back and stand by”, your fat hero said that somebody has to do something about the protesting. Context, Allan, context. The “stand by” and “someone has to do something” was a call to arms, and they took it as a license to plan on vigilantism.”

            You draw that conclusion because along with not understanding the English language you are a violent person. Trump even said no violence. I am not going to try and convince you of anything because you add and subtract words and meanings so that your narrative doesn’t fall apart but it does once the real words and real meanings are replaced.

            Now continue to rant.

  3. Will simply offer if you take the cumulative damage of Antifa or left-wing extremism, it overwhelms the hot white flashes of the right-wing, though each is intolerable.

  4. Listening to Joe Biden’s train stop tour today and good lord, the man tells lie after lie after lie. Does he really believe what he’s saying because nearly all of it is verifiably false. If only the fact checkers were anywhere around Joe and his flailing campaign built on telling lie after lie after lie. A negative, nasty campaign. Joe Biden picked Kamala Harris to be his running mate and the two of them are the oddest pairing that just does not work. She wants to be number one, not number two, and Joe is not capable of being number one so he will happily step aside for her to be number one as soon as possible. It is a deceptive, deceitful and very odd, strange presidential campaign built completely on lying to and deceiving voters. Biden doesn’t deserve to win. He hasn’t earned jack squat.

    1. Biden is a hot mess. Once a lying plagiarist, always a lying plagiarist. Now Biden is a demented, angry, lying, plagiarist.

    2. Breaking News: Former Mayor of San Francisco Willie Brown, refers to Kamala Harris as a Category 5 talent. Ouch.

      1. Are you an honest anonymous?

        Does that mean Kamala Harris dated her way to the top? That can add some pizzazz to sleepy Joe.

    3. Who is this bore commenting under gray Anonymous??

      One pictures him as a common gas bag. Some nerdy loser who’d be marginalized at any social event. His dumpy dork of a wife knows he’s a bore. It’s an open secret in their marriage.

      She has a few friends at church. But even there they know what a dullard her husband is. They refer to him as an ‘Empty Sunday suit’. The term applies to dweebs who don’t wear suits at work.

      No one at church, or work, wants to hear this dweeb’s lectures. They know it’s going to be regurgitated talking points from rightwing media. Coming from a gas bag they are ‘only’ gas.

      Blog Explainer

      1. One word for your “Blog Explainer” analysis of moi: BORING.

        So I shall pose your Q back to you: Who is this bore commenting under magenta Anonymous?

    4. Trump is the one with a flailing campaign built on telling lie after lie after lie. A negative, nasty campaign.

      1. “lie after lie.”

        Anonymous the Lie is unable to say anything but Trump lies. Produce the lies…. Nope that isn’t anything Anonymous the Lie can do. A 3 letter word is the most Anonymous the Lie can handle.

        1. Your insults are boring, Allan. You need to up your game or, better yet, act like an adult, and choose not to fling sh1t all day long.

            1. mespo727272: tell Allan that he’s taking up too much screen space for all this droning. Allan doesn’t like a lot of people, and half his comments are throwing sh1t at them. Don’t worry, I’ll stop before too long. Just flinging Allan’s sh1t back at him makes me want to wash my mouth out. What sad little man-children you are that it comes to you so easily.

              1. Anonymous, I was returning the Sh1t back to you so you could deposit it in the rat latrine where it belonged. At the same time I have provided real content. That is something foreign to you. You appear to have been educated in a rat latrine so you don’t have the ability to deal with content and cry instead. That is why in order to release your anxieties you throw Sh1t.

          1. “Your insults are boring”

            Didn’t I say “Produce the lies”? If you did that things wouldn’t be boring and they would comply with what the list is for. For goodness sakes keep throwing insults at me but at the same time try and produce some legitimate discussion of the subjects at hand.

            I sent out feelers to demonstrate how many lies are out there and all you do is deal with personalities. I am sure you would admit that is a Stupid way for people in a discussion group to act. Can’t you insult in an intellectual fashion or does “Anonymous the Lie” describe you perfectly?

            Now Anonymous the Stupid will take my words copy them and make another one of his Stupid replies.

              1. Look here, like I said above the Brainless Wonder will provide citations but is unable to remove from those citations the salient points. Why? Is it her lack of intellect or her desire to spin and lie. Those articles are spin.

                But, she is dealing in pennies. She is a penny pincher. Maybe she is a bag lady so I should leave her alone or give her a bit of money for breakfast.

                1. Allan is a Brainless Wonder. He has a lack of intellect and a desire to spin and lie. He is a penny pincher. Maybe he is a bag man so I should leave him alone or give him a bit of money for breakfast.

                  1. It’s always nice to hear from Anonymous the Stupid when there have been so many intelligent comments in the preceding interval. Anonymous the Stupid brings the higher level of intellect down towards the Stupid level so the other Anonymous creatures can be involved.

                    Thanks Anonymous the Stupid for being so inclusive.

          1. Anonymous from the rat latrine. You are right about Trump enriching his family. He does that in private industry through his and his chidren’s work product not by selling America down the drain to enrich his family while he holds public office.

            Have you never been taught the difference between a public figure taking from the public bank account and a private figure taking from a private bank account. Does that really require more intellect than you posses?

            As far as lies anonymous posters lie all the time but if Trump lies you can be the first anonymous posted to document the 5 most important lies that are most significant to America based on his actions in office. Is that also too much of a stress on your intellect?

              1. “Anonymous the Lie”

                How long did it take Allan to come up with this one?

                It doesn’t even make sense, but that’s Allan.

                1. Anonymous, I didn’t come up with the idea of linking Anonymous with the word Lie, you did by lying. You have no credibility to argue the contrary. Live with it. Stop complaining like a baby.

                    1. The Stupid one has now converted a twofer into a threefer.

                      One can follow his responses and recognize that all his connections in the brain aren’t wired correctly. I hope someone is tracking him with GPS.

      1. George, ask the ones under the anonymous label that are arguing with me. They seem to be able to call everyone a liar but themselves. One of them Anonymous the Stupid likes to give lessons. Not sure in what but lying is probably his forte outside of his Stupidity.

        The Brainless Wonder will probably provide you a citation that likely proves nothing except that the author makes things up. That is easily noticed because verifiable facts will be excused from his comments. That is why the Brainless wonder provides a citation. It is impossible to defend her articles and repeat the salient points.

          1. What is the problem Anonymous, you can’t take the truth? You have been all around the net talking and talking but you don’t say anything worthwhile. That makes you worthless so now you are reacting when you recognize how worthless you really are.

            You can’t even compose your own sentences so you Google something that you think might make you look smart. It doesn’t. It shows that you do not have the ability to respond on your own.

                  1. Anonymous the Stupid has now made it a fiver. No one should be upset. Anonymous the Stupid is learning to count.

      1. In one area I detest my business partner and he feels the same way about me but we both like to earn money and we do it well together.

        Many in this country don’t like Trump mostly because of his personality. But they want peace in the streets, prosperity and freedom so they being smart will vote for Trump.

        1. Choice is #1 Donald Trump…. or….. the Demented Old Crony Political Hack and the Unlikeable Phony Who Tries Too Hard to Be Cool (and fails at it)

          Trump Trump Trump and more Trump please!

          1. Donald Trump stands for World Peace and Prosperity for ALL.

            Or you could be a douchebag and vote for the Weak Old Crony and the Phony.

            Choice is CLEAR.

            1. Q: What does Biden stand for? This is not at all clear.

              We know Biden’s entire campaign is a hateful rant against Trump. But what is the Biden campaign positively for?

              Is Biden FOR: Raising your taxes? Raising corporate tax? National mask-wearing mandate? Green New Deal? Adding MORE business-killing regulations? Empowering Iran? Isolating and disempowering Israel? More wars and conflict in the middle east? Packing the Supreme Court? Abolishing the fillibuster?

              Besides this completely unappealing platform, who the hell knows what Biden and Harris are for? The media will not tell us! They just attack Trump. That’s it. The entire Biden campaign is about attacking Trump and lying about Trump. That’s about it. How utterly repellant.

              1. Oh and Biden’s pandering for rust belt votes by saying his “made in America” spiel that he uses in his campaign is completely disingenous plagiarizing one of Trump’s primary issues – bringing back jobs and American manufacturing – something Trump has stood for since he first ran for president.

                  1. Anonymous the Stupid, you shouldn’t get so upset. You know that Biden is guilty of all sorts of things including aiding his son Hunter in getting contracts for large amounts of money while selling America down the drain.

                    You don’t hear these things because you placed your fingers in your ears. Remove them and place them in your nose. Then you might be a bit more disgusting but you won’t be so Stupid.

              2. “what Biden and Harris are for?”

                For destruction of the nation as we know it. They will start with packing the Supreme Court and then move on to destroy the people’s government and replace it with a corporatocracy aligned with elitist that will decide what is right and what is wrong based on their own needs. Though today many leftists are happy about the censorship occurring in social media even Elizabeth Warren recognizes the danger. In the future they will tell you how to think. It’s a new version of Animal Farm.

  5. The elpaso shooter commited the crime on August 3, 2019. The charges were brought on February 7, 2020. Trump making a comment one day after the shooting would have prejudiced the case. Under our system even the devil must be presumed innocent until guilty. Do you want to live in a nation were the proclamation of guilt can simply be expresses by a government official. Even for the most despicable, due process must be given in a nation of freedom.

    1. Trump comments on court cases. Are you saying that he’s prejudicing all of those cases he does comment on?

      1. mespo727272 — That was so long ago that it didn’t include you as you weren’t out of your diapers yet.

        Err, you are out of your diapers now, are you not?

  6. Republican Olivia Troye, a former Homeland Security and Covid Task Force Advisor to Pence — who quit and has spoken out against Trump and endorsed Biden — said in an interview today:
    “I’m, quite frankly, grateful that Pres. Trump showed his true colors to the entire nation and put on display exactly what I’ve been talking about about what it’s like to brief him. What you saw is literally what it was like inside the White House every day.”

    Someone asked her on Twitter, “Is this what briefings with him were like?” and she said “YES! Actually. Welcome to my life…” She added “POTUS interruptus!” and “#InterrupterInChief”

    Re: white supremacy, she also added “I waited for the President & the White House to condemn white supremacists the day after the mass shooting in El Paso, my hometown. Never happened. Last night Trump doubled down-energizing white supremacists once again-while claiming he supports “law & order”. He is one sick man.”

  7. I don’t understand. There’s a movement afoot to cancel the remaining debates. I would think that if Trump performed so badly the logic should be to do more debates. Give him more of a chance to fail. Then again, maybe the actual motivation is to keep Biden from further view by the nation. I was for the green new deal before I was against it. Sorry I can’t name one police organization that has endorsed me. I was for Bernie’s manifesto before I was against it. I can’t ask mayors in rioting cities to stop the violence because Iam a private citizen with no influence on Democrats. Don’t pay any attention to those wire transfers of funds sent to my sweet little Hunter. Police need to put psychiatrist on the payrool to go out with cops on (the most dangerous of all) domestic violence calls. The psychiatrist will accept the same pay that the cops get. With this winning formula surely more rather than fewer debates should be demanded by the Biden camp.

    1. Gee, Estovir, this is ‘really’ stupid. You no doubt posted it as an annoying distraction. And that’s all you’ve been to this blog, ‘an annoying distraction’.

  8. “… Trump doesn’t accept the consensus that the debate was a disaster because, sources said, he was unabashedly himself. “The thing about the debate is people got to see why no one that has any integrity can work for Trump. This is what Trump is like in the Oval Office every day. It’s why [John] Kelly left. It’s why [Jim] Mattis quit,” said the prominent Republican. “Trump doesn’t let anyone else speak. He really doesn’t care what you have to say. He demeans people. He talks over them. And everyone around him thinks it’s getting worse.”

    “Inside Trumpworld there’s a view that the past week is an inflection point in the campaign. It started on Sunday night with the bombshell New York Times report that Trump paid just $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017. “For Trump the Times story was worse than losing reelection,” said the second Republican. “If you had told Donald back in 2015 that his tax returns would be exposed and he’d have all these investigations, I guarantee you he wouldn’t have run.”

    “As the Times story lit up cable news and Twitter, news broke that Trump’s former campaign manager Brad Parscale had been taken into custody outside his Ft. Lauderdale home and hospitalized after threatening to commit suicide and allegedly beating his wife days prior. … Parscale’s public meltdown happened while he is reportedly under investigation for stealing from the Trump campaign and the RNC. According to the source close to the campaign, the Trump family is worried that Parscale could turn on them and cooperate with law enforcement about possible campaign finance violations. “The family is worried Brad will start talking,” the source said. In response the Trump campaign’s communications director, Tim Murtaugh, said: “It’s utterly false. There is no investigation, no audit, and there never was.””

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/trumpworld-panics-over-debate-fiasco-as-campaign-turmoil-mounts

    Parscale was involuntarily hospitalized over the weekend under the Baker Act, which allows authorities to detain a person who may be a threat to themselves or others. The police then confiscated 10 guns from the home. Parscale, who had been Trump’s campaign manager, had already been demoted after the sparse turnout at the Tulsa rally, but he was still working for the campaign. He will now take a leave. I wish him luck in dealing with his mental health issues. (That’s meant sincerely, not sarcastically. I don’t like that he’s a Trump enabler, but I don’t want him to be suicidal or to harm his wife.) Unfortunately, I don’t think Trump’s mental health issues are treatable.

    1. Commit once again cuts and pastes articles as directed by the daily DNC talking points.

      “mental health issues”

      Joe has Dementia, and ironically your mental health issues are identical to Biden’s the day he was born. (I.E.- You’re both about as sharp as a bowling ball). That is not “treatable”, BTW.

      If Trump did so badly, and Biden did so well, then why aren’t you anxiously anticipating the next debate?

  9. “American exceptionalism” was on full display last night: Two clowns running for the highest office in the land.

    They’re perfect reflections of the majority of the American people.

    Americans should be so proud.

      1. Go ahead and tell us how Trump lied about the economy, jobs or any of the other great things he has done. You have to be a fool to think everything that occurred in his administration was bad.

      2. “Trump the fifth-rate carnival barker”

        https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2019/03/22/reader-mail/trump-fifth-rate-carnival-barker/

        Mar 22, 2019

        C.D.S. Forrester was spot-on in his March 9 letter (“Trump failed at Hanoi summit“): The collapsed talks were yet another global embarrassment for a show-biz impresario who understands less about geopolitics and cross-cultural negotiation than he does about theoretical astrophysics.

        What’s farcical about Trump’s latest botch is how his previous bombast about “success” was divorced from reality. Specifically, on June 18, (after the Trump-Kim PR stunt in Singapore) he tweeted, “There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea.” Three days after he left Hanoi, satellite images showed that the North could be preparing a nuclear test or missile launch. And that isn’t the only example of Trump’s chest-thumping, knuckle-dragging proclamations being laughably phony: His braggadocio about immigration and the U.S. trade deficit has been equally mendacious.

        Regarding immigration, Trump grandstanded in Kentucky on March 20, 2017: “Since the day of my election, we’ve already cut illegal immigration at the southern border by 61 percent,” which was an easily disproved lie. Fact: On March 5, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security reported that unauthorized southern border crossings are at a 12-year peak.

        About the trade deficit, last Aug. 5, Trump tweet-gloated, “Tariffs are working big time.” This was delusional bluster from an amoral propagandist whose doddering brain cannot discern truth. Fact: This March 6, the U.S. Commerce Department announced that the U.S. trade deficit is at a record high, partly due to “punitive tariffs the administration has imposed on both allies and adversaries.”

        Trump, a malevolent manipulator who spews fabrications with alacrity, perpetually demonstrates that his skills are ideal for a fifth-rate carnival barker, but not for executive leadership of any kind, especially of the world’s most powerful nation. Ironically, his incessant lies are the penultimate definition of “fake news.”

        D.S. MONAHAN

        EDOGAWA WARD, TOKYO

    1. Anonymous:
      Yeah our betters are so superior that they refuse to give their names or own their comments. True gods. What a pompous ass you must be when you emerge from the covers. Lots a debris in our wake, we unexceptional Americans. Lol.

  10. Meanwhile, in another sign of Trump’s incompetence and lack of compassion, “President Trump is expected to miss a deadline to decide how many refugees are allowed into the U.S. next year. Sidestepping the requirement in a 40-year-old law leaves the future of the country’s refugee resettlement program in doubt. http://apne.ws/5gkUbGw

  11. To committohonestdiscussion. So an ultra leftist sues an ultra rightist. It dont mean jack until a charge is brought in court.

    1. You seem to have missed Amy Spitalnick’s actual point, which was not about the lawsuit.

      Andrew Anglin is a Neo-Nazi who runs the Daily Stormer.

      He heard Trump’s comment and responded:
      “I think he’s [Trump] ready to go. I believe it now. I didn’t know before, but I am now a believer; Trump is ready for a war in the streets of America to save this country from the beast that is riding in on Joe Biden. … Probably, this is going to end with the country breaking up, which is the exact thing that i wanted to happen. But you all need to understand: this is real life and this is happening. In a month’s time, your president could ask you to go out into the streets and defend your country. You need to be ready to do that. … it cold escalate very quickly into a shooting war, Prepare yourself for that.”
      The screenshots are in the Twitter thread in the link I gave.

      1. The American Founders limited immigration to “…free white person(s)…,” restricted the vote to European males who were aged 21 and owned 50 lbs. Sterling/50 acres, and Lincoln planned to send freed slaves back to Africa.

        And America put the first man on the moon.

        To wit,

        Werner von Braun

        Born in 1912, von Braun grew up in a very conservative, nationalist aristocratic family, but became obsessed with space travel in his teens. Driven by a dream to someday lead an expedition to the Moon, he took the unusual course for a Prussian baron (as he actually was) to pursue an engineering career. In late 1932 the German Army offered to finance his doctoral dissertation if he worked in secret on liquid-propellant rocketry. Shortly thereafter, Hitler became Chancellor. Von Braun was a right-wing nationalist by upbringing but seems to have taken little interest in Nazi ideology or anti-Semitism. As money began flowing into rearmament and eventually into the rocket program, he became more enthusiastic about the regime. In 1933-34, he was a member of an SS riding group in Berlin, but National Socialist organizations were then pressing non-member students to participate in paramilitary activities. In 1937, now the technical director at age 25 of the new Army rocket center at Peenemünde on the Baltic, he received a letter asking him to join the Party. Since it required little commitment, and it might damage his career to say no, he went along.

        In spring 1940, an SS man approached him with an invitation from Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler to rejoin the SS as an officer. He asked his military superior, Walter Dornberger, who advised him that it was politically inconvenient for the missile program if he turned it down. Lacking any convictions that would make him say no, von Braun once again went along, although he probably could have made excuses to get out of it. By 1943 he had ascended to the rank of Sturmbannführer (major), thanks to Himmler’s appreciation for his rocket work.

        The rest, as they say, is history.

  12. Check out YouTube. Senate hearing today.
    James Comey testifies before Senate Judiciary Committee. The ball starts slowly but the building force is inevitable.

  13. Amy Spitalnick [“Executive Director, @IntegrityForUSA (suing the Nazis who attacked Charlottesville – #SueANazi). Former Comms Director & Senior Advisor to NY Attorney General]:
    “Neo-Nazi Andrew Anglin runs the Daily Stormer, the leading neo-Nazi site. He’s a defendant in @IntegrityforUSA’s suit for orchestrating the Charlottesville violence. Anglin heard Trump’s “stand by” comments and voter fraud disinfo exactly as intended: as a call for a race war. …”
    https://twitter.com/amyspitalnick/status/1311377582764556288 — the start of a short Twitter thread with images from Anglin’s comments on the Daily Stormer.

    Maybe Wallace should have asked Trump whether he’d condemn Neo-Nazis, another white supremacist group.

  14. did anybody notice that Trump said he had been denied a just transition and a coup had been attempted and “we caught them all on tape”

    GEE I WONDER WHAT THAT MEANS. I SUSPECT OVER THE NEXT 30 DAYS WE WILL FIND OUT

      1. Have you noticed how often Biden lies? …And he rarely speaks.

        But you lie the most and you need to be committed with your friend.

          1. Mr Biden will you pack the Supreme Court.

            ‘Uh, I can’t answer that because either way I lose votes’

            Do Americans want the Supreme Court packed. The majority don’t want to destroy a nation that has been the most successful in the world.

            That is what people that hate America want…the destruction of the nation and Anonymous is no different.

              1. I placed his words in single quotes because it was paraphrase. That is not a lie but then that is what you say to anyone you disagree with.

                  1. They don’t indicate a direct quotation.

                    However you have his answer below. He refused to answer the question.

                    Do you support any party packing the Supreme Court? It seems you will be voting for him so you should know both your answer and his.

                    1. Single quotation marks do indicate a direct quotation.

                      If you didn’t know that, Google do single quotation marks indicate a direct quotation and read up.

                    2. I use double quotation marks for direct quotations.

                      Of course when Trump is quoted you have a different scale of measurement. One can lie about what he said, but you will push the lie.

                    3. Then you should learn that single quotation marks are also used for direct quotations, so you’re misleading people if you use them to mean something they don’t.

                    4. There is such a thing as scare quotes. Whether one or two marks are used depends on the country.

                      In any event it should have been obvious that it was not a direct quote and when you asked I directly told you it was a paraphrase. You have no issues that you can talk about rationally so you concentrate on spell checking and punctuation.

                      Why don’t you concentrate a bit on Biden’s enrichment of his family while selling America out. That should trouble you but you haven’t corrected anything anyone said about that but ‘ and ” get you all hot and bothered. You have your priorities stuck in the wrong place.

                      Try and see if all your connections are correct. Brain to spinal cord to end nerves. Mouth to esophagus stomach and intestines to anus. That could explain your problems.

              2. When asked about the Supreme Court Biden hid his answer from the public because as I said he didn’t want to lose votes. Here is his quote:

                “Whatever position I take on that, that’ll become the issue

                Biden is running for President. Everything he wishes to do is an issue but this issue divides the democrat voters. This issue rips apart America and politicizes the Supreme Court with one party packing it. Biden had no answer because the extreme left wishes to rid America of its institutions and destroy the American Republic.

        1. Ron, politicians don’t all lie the same amount. Some are mostly dishonest, and some are mostly honest. It’s not helpful to lump them into a single category.

          Here’s a good video of Rep. Katie Porter questioning a hearing witness today about drug price gouging. Do you think she was lying whenever she opened her mouth?

            1. Ron, the video should be embedded in the comment, but if you can’t see it, here’s the link. I’ll omit the “https://www.” to prevent it from embedding. Just add that before the following: youtube.com/watch?v=arduwbwYB_w&pp=QAA%3D Or if you do an internet video search on [Rep. Porter grills Big Pharma CEO for price gouging – YouTube], that should also pull it up.

              1. CTHD, To address my original comment, I will clarify since I realize some people desire perfect accuracy. “How do you know when a politician is lying? Their lips are moving telling people how they will help, support and promote policies to help citizens”.

                So in this case, she was not doing that, she was using information to grill a drug company CEO. And I have no problem with that.

                However, after working in healthcare finance for 35+ years, I can tell you she did not ask the proper questions. The two main ones.
                1). How does government patent policy impact your ability to raise prices from just over $200 per pill to over $700?
                2) How does discounts you give large volume purchasers impact cost for retail customers. Do you raise prices for no other reason than to give managed care and drug middlemen discouhts that maintains income for that drug?

                #2 happens because discounters tell providers to do it. My healthsystem, in order to continue accepting our main managed care customer subscribers had to raise rates 20% in one year. We needed 5% to cover increasing costs, mostly nursing salaries that went up 10% that year, but the insurance company said they had to show large discounts to future employers to get business, so raise your rates 20%, give us a 15%discount and you get 5% to cover expenses. And due to government regs., all rates went up 20%, including those uninsured.

                #1 reduces competition, so they have a monopoly on patent drugs. Why does government promote this. Democrats and G.O.P.

                1. Ron, you have hit the nail on the head. I had some tangential dealings with this problem. The middlemen have to be removed and we have to give patients the right to buy medication more directly and from abroad. Liquidity constraint can also affect the situation so we have to deal with how we insure. The entire drug industry needs a very close look including the way a drug gets to the market and the way patents are used so more advanced drugs, like extended release, are not purposefully held until the first patent runs out. Even the FDA testing needs to be revised so we get head to head comparisons with the gold standard. We also need to firm up the approval process by making pharma, in advance, note which studies will be used for proof and force them not to drop the studies that so not show the drug favorably. There is a lot more that needs to be done. I figured I would mention a little bit here because I doubt we will have a thread that deals with these technical problems more completely.

                  1. I could write almost a complete book on how government and managed care created the total mess we have with healthcare REIMBURSEMENT, not healthcare!

                    But a couple examples.
                    Went to the doctors for a checkup, not physical, but BP check so I could have meds refilled and he went over last 6 months, etc. Spent about 30 minutes. The charge was around $100, the reimbursement was less than it cost me for an oil change in my car. Those without coverage would have paid $100. Insurance paid less than his costs when considering nurses salary, receptionist salary, facility cost, etc.

                    Last colonoscopy, doc sent me to a local hospital for the procedure since it was closer. Total charges for hospital, doctor, anesthesiologist, just over $13,000, Total reimbursement for all of them by insurance, just over $3,000. Local surgery center charges around $3000. Why the difference. Surgery center can charge one flat fee for everything. Hospitals are required by government to charge for each detailed service, no flat fees.

                    1. Ron, add to that if the private outpatient center was reimbursed by Medicare $1,500 for the procedure then at least in the recent past if that surgicenter was bough by the hospital and was within a certain distance of it then the Medicare reimbursement would almost double.

                      Physicians are paid too little and too much. It just depends. A real marketplace should change the pricing schedule. Government has increased the cost of care by a huge amount. Everyone is now gaming the system especially the hospitals. I don’t know about yours in particular but their ultimate high prices and their balance billing by physicians not in network could probably easily be corected. Unfortunately those earning big bucks off of the crazy rules and regulations like things as they are. Most importantly the politicians want the good will of the ones with the highest payoff. ObamaCare only made the system worse as has most of the changes Medicare has made. Even the bill involving HMO’s was screwed up and the court cases messed up.

                      The laws conflict and the decisions of the courts early on were not the best. I think ERISA interpretations caused a lot of harm as did the initial bill I (think under Nixon). I’m not an expert on these laws but I know what all of them together created.

                    2. Allen, Ieft healthcare in 2008, thank god! We never had physicians balance billing. This is either a new development since then or a process created in an area of the country not including North Carolina. All our contracts with discounts had verbage that prohibited billing patients for anything but deductibles and co-ins.I need to research how this developed.

                    3. Ron, it was the physician who wasn’t part of the plan. Example a person calls the hospital and asks do you take ABC insurance for x-ray services. The hospital says yes, but the patient gets a bill from the radiologist. A patient admitted by his physician who calls in another physician who doesn’t have a contract with the insurer. Same thing.

                      The system is broken and has gotten worse and worse with time. ObamaCare made it even worse but most importantly it made the problems more difficult to fix.

                      Did you ever wonder why a well paid electrician ended up in the hospital without health insurance? He is well paid, young, and totally healthy until he is sick. But when he was healthy Why didn’t he pay for his insurance that was reasonably priced? Because he didn’t want to pay for someone else’s illness. HE didn’t want to share. If he is forced to pay a reasonable hospital fee, he will learn and so will many others why people should carry insurance.

                      The whole idea is to get premiums down by appropriate risk management along with significant deductibles. The lower the premium the more people will think insurance is a good alternative to getting sick and having to pay for one of the high medical bills. There also has to be transparency so that patients can choose less expensive choices. There are loads of things that can be done. It is not rocket science. People are paying premiums that are huge and they drastically fall with higher deductibles.

                    4. Allen, one exception. Patients who had insurance, but we did not have a contractual agreement with were considered self pay, we collected from them and they were provided documentation to file with their insurance to be reimbursed out of network reimbursement. There was no “surprise bill” since they knew bill on discharge.

                    5. I checked some bills with my local hospital and the cash price on some were 20times what they received from a major insurer.

                    6. Like I said, in ten years much has changed. We also had hospital based physicians that were not part of the negotiated rates, but their charges were never to the point that patient complained. rarely did they say anything But we also provided them information that when you came to the hospital you will receive a bill from the hospital, the pathologist, the radiologist and the emergency room physicians if you had any services performed by those doc’s. And the doctor contact info was included so the patient could contact those providers.

                      As for any hospital with a fee exceeding the average insurance reimbursement by 20 times, I would love to see how they created that charge master. If 80% of your business is covered by insurance of some kind and most all insurance now pays on some form of DRG or APC and not a percent of charges, there is no reason to have that much contractual adjustment unless the state does not preclude the hospital from balance billing even contractual payors.

                      The whole dang system got screwed up with the way Medicare began paying back in 1968 and the resulting mess took about 40 years to blossom.

                      And people say the way to go is like the UK. What they fail to understand is the UK controls their cost because doctors, nurses, pharmacist, lab techs, rad tech,s, janitors and everyone else working in anything connected with healthcare are paid by the government. Doctors make significantly less in the UK than USA unless its like plastic surgeons doing all elective stuff. Nurses and pharmacist are paid about 75% in the UK compared to USA. Drugs are all negotiated prices. They take our meds after we have paid for research and development and buy them for pennies compared to USA customers. That is why there was a ban on reimportation because drug companies did not want our providers going to Canada, buying drugs from their negotiated price and buy them for much less than from one of our distributors. The UK has complete control of the cost from the time a patient walks into the doctors office until they walk out of the hospital after treatment unlike here.

                      We do not have that. We have doctors demanding increasing income. Nurses and the nurses unions demanding more pay. Pharmacist that now make well into 6 digit incomes since the pharmacy schools control the number of graduates, creating more competition from drug stores and hospitals for the graduates services. Then we also have CON laws limiting competition, driving up cost since there is limited competition. Insurance companies increase premiums to increase their bottom lines. Hospitals need income to replace multi- million dollar equipment with lives from 5-7 years.

                      And there is no fix because not one of the above is going to agree to government wage and price controls. Blame the drug companies because they are an easy target, but the whole damn system is screwed up.

                    7. ” I would love to see how they created that charge master. If 80%…”

                      Ron, it’s crazy. There is no transparency. The hospital can utilize the excessive bill by giving immediate large discounts to the uninsured or those whose insurance isn’t linked with the hospital and then charge monthly payments that add up to a lot more than a major insurer would have paid.

                      Patients hearing about $100,000 bills are incentivized into paying for insurance while justifying premium costs based on such high costs. Excessive bills of low amounts stimulate the purchase of low deductibles which is the opposite of what should be encouraged.

                      The insurers are happy because the justification of high rates (through over broad coverage) is satisfied and since they basically work on a cost plus basis the insurers are happy.

                      Thus stupidity makes the patient, the hospital and the insurer “happy” while healthcare costs spiral upwards. ObamaCare was a new game and added to the high costs along with lower quality. In the end the individual has been totally scre.wed.

                      Medicare: You are right. The system was screwed up from the start and only needed time for those screw ups to become obvious.

                      Rule changes: Same thing. Most of them were screwed up from the start. Initially prices seemed to fall but then again spiraled higher than before.

                      Part D: Same

                      HMO’s: Same

                      ObamaCare: Same

                      Most of the screw ups that would come later were known from the start but politics demanded that the screw ups be included.

                    8. One more comment on how government continues to screws up billing. In 2003, I worked with our IT department to tie billing to our Medical Recirds system for Inpatient and some outpatient files if they did coding. They created that link. So lets say a lady delivers a baby. When discharged, medical records codes the clinical record, that code tied to charge master, lady recieves bill stating, ” maternity care, $xx,xxx.xx. ” One line flat rate billing. Same with open heart surgery. No more line item billing where two doctors can do the same service and have bills different by thousands.

                      CMS said absolutely not, we need detail billing for cost reporting, a report used for little since early 90’s other than keeping hundreds employed in Baltimore.

                    9. Ron, administrative costs continue to climb due to the government. The coding, I understand is horrendous and unnecessary except the government want physicians and hospitals to assist them and private research firms without payment for their time and expenses.

                      Back to pharmaceuticals for a second, a number of years back my understanding was that it cost $1Billion to get a drug to market. The FDA has taken older drugs like colchicine off the market and replaced them with newly created colchicine drugs where the active ingredient was the same. The older drug went for pennies and the newer drug costs, last I heard, a fortune.

                    10. My best friend was the director of pharmacy at the health system. Also president if tye state pharmacy association for a couple years. Dealt with pharmacy reps for years. In addition to what you said about FDA, the drug companies began taking drugs ready for patent expiration, tweaking chemical formulas just enough to get another patent and then raised prices.No difference in clinical outcomes, just more revenues.

                    11. Ron, that is what I mentioned in an earlier discussion so I am happy to hear confirmation of what I believe.

                      A lot of people on the blog probably take Prilosec or Nexium. Virtually act identically but when placed over the counter Prilosec was ½ strength.

                      Because insurance covered Nexium for a low or no cost to the consumer even though the insurer’s paid big bucks patients used Nexium even though the savings by using 2 Prilosec were extraordinary. The system we are tied into caused higher expenses without any benefit. Whether it is children going to school or drugs or anything else the end user has to be involved for an efficient market to function.

                      Who do you think made sure this would happen? Congress. They are the beneficiaries of big donors. It isn’t a right left issue. It’s an issue that both parties utilize to get rich. Trump is attempting to bypass these market inefficiencies to bring prices lower. If permitted he will be wildly successful.

                    12. “What they fail to understand is the UK controls their cost because doctors, nurses, pharmacist, lab techs, rad tech,s, janitors and everyone else working in anything connected with healthcare are paid by the government. Doctors make significantly less in the UK than USA”

                      Ron, essentially too much focus was placed on the provider (take note of your response and how much was focused on the provider). Uwe Reinhardt commented on this in a letter to the editor to the NYT many years ago.

                      All providers, doctors and including chiropractors, podiatrists etc. consistently amount to less than 20% of the cost but are responsible for virtually all the treatment. Only trivial savings can come from that area. Better to have the provider work with the government to reduce costs than work against the government or the patient.

                      You had a lot of good points for discussion that were just the tip of the iceberg but I will hold off the rest for now because every point being made can be an entire chapter in a book.

                2. OK, but my goal wasn’t to show you that she asked every question that would be good to ask. My goal was to show you that it’s not true and not productive to say politicians lie all the time. Some do and others don’t, and it doesn’t help anyone to pretend that the difference doesn’t exist or doesn’t matter. It matters.

                  1. OK, but when ALL OF THEM lie more than 50% of the time, especially when they are running for reelection, then it is almost impossible to know when they are telling the truth. Remember Chicken Little?

                    This is why we have awful choices for president! People that believe that crap! Would we have even had Trump nominated if they had not bought his Kool-aide? Would we have Biden if he told people what he really was going to do? He says he is not for the green new deal and then go to his web site and look at his policy statement. It almost reads what the GND is based on.

                    1. Ron, Trump has been one of the most honest and transparent presidents we have ever had.

                      There is a lot of proof.

                      1) Compare what Trump said he would do if elected and then compare that to what he accomplished and what he tried to accomplish. Compare that to other politicians. Trump more than fulfilled his promises.

                      2) He has gone through almost an entire presidency where he has been spied on by the intelligence agencies, investigations by Congress and nothing was found against Trump but plenty has by found against his opponents.

                      3) Transparency: Look at his tweets. They are virtually telling you what he is thinking at the moment. That gets him in trouble when he revises his thinking but he will revise his thinking none the less.

                      4) In the Russia hoax he provided all information even information other presidents wouldn’t provide. He even permitted his attorney to testify.

                    2. Just confirming that the 12:22 PM comment was from me.

                      I don’t see any reason to believe that “all of them lie more than 50% of the time.” My experience is that some politicians are quite honest. I don’t like these kinds of overgeneralization. I think they’re bad for the country.

                      Trump is a pathological liar. He says whatever he finds convenient in the moment. He lies so much that he seems to believe what he says and his supporters are convinced he’s honest.

                      Biden is lies sometimes, but he’s not a pathological liar.

                      Here’s a fact-check from the debate:
                      https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/29/politics/fact-check-biden-trump-first-presidential-debate/index.html
                      You can see that Trump lied more.

                    3. I don’t like these kinds of overgeneralization. I think they’re bad for the country.

                      But, you do like this overgeneralization: Trump is a pathological liar.

                      Your claim to honesty loses all credibility when you completely ignore what has turned out to be the biggest lie in American history…the Trump/Russia collusion. Everything else is flysh!t in comparison. And no one on this blog has demonstrated a commitment to picking out that flysh!t, while ignoring that mountain of dung (Trump/Russia narrative) we’ve been forced to slog through for 4 years, than you.

                  2. I don’t consider you “Trump is a pathological liar” to be an overgeneralization, Olly. I’d be happy to discuss both the definition of “pathological liar” and the evidence with you, if you want to dig into the evidence. But I doubt you do. Seems like you want to insult me and dismiss what I wrote without really looking at the evidence for whether it’s true.

                    1. Sorry for the typo, that first sentence should be “I don’t consider “Trump is a pathological liar” to be an overgeneralization.”

                    2. I’d be happy to discuss both the definition of “pathological liar” and the evidence with you, if you want to dig into the evidence.

                      I’m not interested in your picking of nits. Democrats view lying like they do abortion: it no longer needs to be safe, legal and rare.

                    3. What you consider “nitpicking” is what determines whether it’s an overgeneralization or not.

                      You want to believe that it’s an overgeneralization, but you can’t be bothered to dig into the evidence.

                      Ironic that you think Democrats are the ones who lie a lot, when Trump is such a pathological liar.

        2. Ron,
          I understand your point and I’m certain CTHD understood your point. Even your linked article admits not every time a politician speaks that what comes out of their mouth is a lie. I believe where the majority of people err is being skeptical or accepting of what a politician is saying simply because of party affiliation. I also believe, perhaps cynically, that trustworthiness is inversely proportional to seniority. And this is where it becomes vitally important that we as citizens have a fundamental understanding and agreement on what our government should be doing. Without that, then we get what we have today.

          1. Well, neither one can be trusted. Trump lies more than he tells the truth. Biden has lied since before he was caught plagiarizing others work. He lied in the debate when he says he does not support the green newvdeal, but one just needs to read his positions on his website.

            1. Of course they can’t be trusted to merely tell the truth. Unfortunately citizens are lazy and easily persuaded by misinformation. Our job as citizens is to hold them accountable on good governance. I didn’t vote for Trump because I trusted him. He was a political unknown. I was voting against Clinton because she had a record and would be given a power that would be a disaster for this country. The surprise is President Trump has managed to govern this country so effectively that the Democrats have been left to abandon traditional platforms that appeal to the moderates in this country. We are as always a divided country. This divide however is no longer between traditional liberal and conservative worldviews of how to constitutionally advance this country forward. It’s now between that traditional worldview and a worldview alien to our constitution. Each side is still represented by a major political party, but Republicans now represent the former while Democrats now represent the latter.

  15. People have a right in this country to their opinion. When they think that their “Right” includes violence against other Americans they are not on the side justice.Turley writes about the history of violence by the right and leaves out various historical incidents of violence on the left. Most important is what side is committing violence now. I have only seen one group harassing dinners at a restaurant demanding that they make a fist in support of BLM. Trump is saying that Antifa should stop the violence and The Proud Boys should not answer in kind. Biden refuses to tell Antifa to “stand down”.

    1. If you’ve only seen violence from the left, then read a wider variety of news sources, including those that report on the FBI’s assessments about white nationalist violence. Consider white supremacist mass murders like the El Paso Walmart and Pittsburgh synagogue shootings.

      1. “If you’ve only seen violence from the left”

        You’ve made it very clear multiple times that you see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil about the “left”, even while they are rioting on a nightly basis in major cities throughout the country.

        Now, please provide all of the examples of the “right” rioting on a nightly basis in major cities throughout the country?

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