George Mason Law Professor Challenges School Vaccine Mandate [Updated]

George Mason University law professor Todd Zywicki is objecting to the school’s mandatory vaccine policy for faculty and students as a condition to returning to campus.  Zywicki is raising an issue that is largely being ignored by the Administration and the media in the push for mandatory vaccine rules by private companies: the millions with natural antibodies to the virus. Zywicki recovered from the virus and says that blood tests confirm that he has antibodies. Given that test, he does not want to expose himself to an unnecessary vaccine given the risk (albeit low) of complications or a negative reaction.

      Zywicki has taught at George Mason since 1998 and is being represented by the New Civil Liberties Alliance.  The case could represent an important challenge. The Biden Administration has openly called on private companies to enforce an effective vaccine passport system. However, George Mason is a public institution. Even though it might be able to secure review under the low rational basis test, Zywicki and his supporting experts are saying that there is no rational basis to require him to be vaccinated against a virus that he already has antibodies to combat.
      Zywicki has relied on a letter from his physician who advised him not to get a vaccine.  He also has a joint statement from Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford and Martin Kulldorff of Harvard, saying that it makes no sense to require him to get vaccinated when he shows such natural antibodies. They note that “the existing clinical literature overwhelmingly indicates that the protection afforded to the individual and community from natural immunity is as effective and durable as the efficacy levels of the most effective vaccines to date.”
      His case highlights a glaring issue in the failure of the Administration and private businesses to distinguish between unvaccinated individuals and individuals who are unvaccinated but with antibodies.  I have not been able to find a clear answer on why people like Zywicki cannot show test on antibodies rather than proof of vaccinations. Studies indicate that recovered victims show the same level of antibodies. It seems like the issue should be antibodies whether produced naturally or through vaccinations. At a minimum, it is worth discussing.
      I was eager to receive the vaccine and my entire family took the first opportunity to become vaccinated. However, I would be interested in reading a full discussion of this issue. However, there are few places where such a discussion is occurring in an uncensored format.The media has portrayed anyone who does not get the vaccine as morons or even terrorists. However, millions have recovered from the virus and may be making the same decision as Zywicki. Part of the problem is that such debates are often banned by social media companies under their censorship policies. You are not allowed to discuss whether it is responsible for some like Zywicki to decline the vaccine due to natural antibodies.
     The university issued a statement that did not address Zywicki’s case directly or even the underlying question of requiring vaccinations for those with natural antibodies.  One possibility is that the university could argue that the risk of vaccinations is so low that there is no reasonable basis for declining vaccination. On the other hand, it could claim that the variation among natural antibodies and the administrative burden is very high in allowing such exceptions to be claimed. However, it would seem like the university could simply require a test showing a minimum level of antibodies. 
     It is an ironic fight in a school named after George Mason who was a fierce advocate for individual rights. Indeed, George Mason’s motto is “Freedom and Learning” and features the Declaration of Rights on its seal.  Mason was the principal drafter of the Declaration.
Update: It appears George Mason has granted an exception to Zywicki.

148 thoughts on “George Mason Law Professor Challenges School Vaccine Mandate [Updated]”

  1. More of Turley promoting the “victimization” theory in preparation for the 2022 midterms. The CDC recommends vaccination even for those who have had COVID. Do you think that the scientists who advise the CDC are making things up or don’t know what they’re talking about in making this recommendation? Apparently so, because Turley thinks there needs to be “discussion” about it. What is there to “discuss”? Why don’t Zywicki and his supporting experts lobby the CDC to drop, change or clarify this recommendation, instead of suing, or at least ask them the rationale for the recommendation? Because this doesn’t get Zywicki attention or play into the politics of COVID. How much could an immunization harm Zywiki, anyway? But, that’s not the point of this piece or the lawsuit. Turley claims that Zywiki and his experts “are saying that there is no rational basis to require him to be vaccinated against a virus that he already has antibodies to combat.” But, are the antibody levels sufficient? Do such natural antibodies provide equal protection as the vaccine, which has been studied, although the length of protection is not fully understood? Has the issue of natural immunity been thoroughly studied? How long do antibody levels stay high enough for protection with a COVID infection versus immunization? Or, as usual, is Turley just tossing more red meat to the disciples, to encourage them to believe they are right to “fight” immunization?

    1. Bet you don’t think anyone should be able to obtain an exemption.

      Also would bet you’re all for a social credit system.

      Would respect you more if you admitted to the above but I won’t hold my breath.

      Wonder how you would react if Trump were still president and was pushing mandatory vaccination byou would be the first to denounce it, particularly since your minority pets (blacks and hispanics) have lower vaccination rates.

      antonio

    2. “Has the issue of natural immunity been thoroughly studied? How long do antibody levels stay high enough for protection with a COVID infection versus immunization?” Has any of this stuff been done with the vaccines, either? We certainly have no idea how long the vaccines are going to be effective, and we know that the breakthrough rate for vaccinated individuals is greater than that of those that have been previously infected with “real” COVID.

      1. Jesse:

        All I’ve found so far are studies that showed the reinfection rate of those with previous infection was similar to the rate of breakthrough infection among the vaccinated. But those studies were before Delta.

        If you have found any studies on this comparison for Delta, then would you please share them?

        The vaccine mimics infection, but it only uses the spike protein. Acquired immunity from infection would also recognize multiple binding sites of the virus, so it is possible that acquiring immunity from actual infection might be more protective against Delta. The immune system has been shown to produce a durable memory for SARS-CoV2. Serum antibodies decrease months after infection, but the bones “remember” and can go back online quickly.

        Of course, years will have to pass before studies can prove whether or not immunity lasts for years.

        https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4

        “Overall, our results indicate that mild infection with SARS-CoV-2 induces robust antigen-specific, long-lived humoral immune memory in humans.”

        “The relatively rapid early decline in the levels of anti-S IgG, followed by a slower decrease, is consistent with a transition from serum antibodies being secreted by short-lived plasmablasts to secretion by a smaller but more persistent population of long-lived plasma cells generated later in the immune response. The majority of this latter population resides in the bone marrow.”

        “Overall, our data provide strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 infection in humans robustly establishes the two arms of humoral immune memory: long-lived BMPCs and memory B cells. These findings provide an immunogenicity benchmark for SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and a foundation for assessing the durability of primary humoral immune responses that are induced in humans after viral infections.”

        Basically, the long-lived bone marrow plasma cells (BMPC) and memory B cells of those who recovered from infection are the benchmark immunogenicity by which vaccines are evaluated.

        Covid-19 vaccine researchers are trying to match the immunity acquired from infection. The latter is not a lesser form of immunity.

        1. Karen: please stop trying to pretend you are a medical expert. You aren’t. What you cited essentially says nothing other than the issue needs to be studied.

    3. Are you not reading all of the sentences? You have raised valid questions, just as others have, but you don’t want them discussed. Why? Science is always questioning. Now I think I will go out and watch the sun set–it does set, doesn’t it?

    4. “What is there to “discuss”?”

      In your universe — nothing.

      In your universe, if a government Authority issues a decree, one is supposed to bow and silently submit.

  2. The idea that those with natural immunity may should be exempt from mandatory vaccination is dependent on solid data. So far there is very little data supporting natural immunity as effective against the delta variant. A recent study showed that the delta variant had ways of going around those antibodies and even the vaccine itself. It diminished the effectiveness of the vaccines to 80%. Scientists are concerned that it is only a matter of time before a vaccine resistant variant emerges if we don’t get as many people vaccinated as possible.

    “ How does the Delta variant dodge the immune system? Scientists find clues.”

    The Delta variant of the coronavirus can evade antibodies that target certain parts of the virus, according to a new study published on Thursday in Nature. The findings provide an explanation for diminished effectiveness of the vaccines against Delta, compared with other variants.“

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/07/08/health/delta-variant-covid-vaccine-immunity.amp.html

    I’m states where the delta variant is runnin rampant and vaccination rates are dismal they are now seeing people rushing to get vaccinated because of the realization that it is hitting close to home for many and hospitalizations are increasing faster than it used to.

    1. In the absence of solid evidence to the contrary it’s safe to assume any current or future variant will behave just like any prior Corona Viruses or any other virus in general, that is recovery confers immunity.

      Extraordinary claims, in this case that COVID-19 is somehow unique requires extraordinary evidence. So far there has been none.

  3. Every day there are those on this blog and elsewhere who wish to usurp individual liberties, the current mantra forced vaccinations. These big minded tyrants profess to know what is good for you regardless of the unknown vaccines efficacy (a result that may be immediate or remote resulting in effects or consequences of the action). The unknown potency of the vaccine has shown to have flaws, deaths and contracting a new variant of the virus. There are some who are risk adverse (which ever side of the coin you choose) on this issue, I personally choose to be vaccinated knowing that the therapy could and most likely would have negative effects, but considered the positives did indeed out weight the negatives. To this end any bureaucrat(s) who would enforce a mandate that you will be vaccinated with an unproven therapy is/are tyrant(s). By enforce I mean risking the loss of something of value, (job, status or even arrest like the House of Representatives, etc). Tyrant’s one and all, and generally dyspeptic.

  4. “One possibility is that the university could argue that the risk of vaccinations is so low that there is no reasonable basis for declining vaccination.”

    it’s not the University’s risk to assess. It the *individual’s* risk to assess, hopefully in consultation with his *personal* physician.

    1. Studies have shown that those individuals who have COVID and then get the vaccine have far more & more significant reactions to the vaccine. So it is not all together correct for the University to say the vaccine risk is “so low.”

    2. The new mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are for emergency use and have not been approved by the FDA. The FDA approval process is normally 3 – 5 years. No one knows the long term effect of these vaccines, that includes statements by the pharmaceutical companies. What is the reason to vaccinate a person that has had COVID and has the antibodies with a drug that could have long term effects?

      1. mRNA vaccination technology is 30 years old. The J&J old school ‘hair of the dog’ tech is as old as vaccinations are in general. With Covid, original strain, natural immunity on average lasts 6-9 months. That natural immunity is questionable in the face of the mutations. So if you’re keeping score at home, if you’ve had Covid early on you have 6-9 months of immunity (which is now long past done) and that immunity is doubtful against the most prevalent strains of Covid now. That’s why vaccination is worthwhile. And that’s just from a selfish, self centered point of view. If one should be so bold as to GAF what happens to their fellow humans, it would behoove one to not want to be a walking variant laboratory. The longer Covid can replicate the more it can mutate. The way to turn the tide on that is 70% of the world’s population having immunity, natural or vaccinated, at the same time. It’s basic math. Add to that the fact that their is more supporting data around the vaccines with which to work with than there is around the drug treatments for Covid. The quicker we as a society can get our heads out of our butts around resistance to vaccination for Covid being the answer, the quicker we can put this particular pandemic in the rear view. Don’t worry there will be another that comes along that you can pout and stamp your foot about.

        eb

        1. “If one should be so bold as to GAF what happens to their fellow humans,..”

          They need to understand what they are talking about before giving advice to others.

        2. Just because you claim that the technology behind the vaccine has been around for 30 years, doesn’t mean the vaccine works longer term (and as designed) or that the vaccine itself is not harmful. That’s like saying some manufacturing technology has been proven, so that makes some unsafe piece of equipment made by that technology “safe.” Or how about making apple juice the proven way, using rotten apples?

        3. At first we were told that natural immunity would not last. However, it has since been learned that that is not the case. A study at Emory University (published in “Cell Reports Medicine”) recently found that people who had recovered from covid still had strong immune response after 250 days. (So far that’s as far as they’ve gone – because it’s a little hard to study long-term results until you have . . . time.) The immunity is described as “broad,” “effective,” “strong,” and “durable.”

          On the other hand, immunity from vaccines wanes significantly in six months. Israel has begun giving third doses, and the U.K. is making preparations to do so. That isn’t surprising. The only reason vaccines work is that they get the immune system to learn to fight the infection. So if the body’s immune system can’t maintain that “learning” from the real virus, how would it retain that “learning” from an imposter virus (the “spike” that the vaccine introduces)? If natural immunity doesn’t work, it is absolutely impossible for a vaccine to work.

          For more information, look up the study. Rafi Ahmed, PhD is one of the authors.

          mRNA has been in development for 30 years. Thirty years ago it was not a usable technology. It was an idea that was being explored. It wasn’t ready until recently, and it wasn’t used on human beings until recently.

          1. Seems you’re referring to the top end of the 6-9 month ‘natural’ immunity.

            As far as mRNA, there’s much data on it now. Long studies with pandemic vaccines are sort of self defeating…, across the board, we either kill viruses or they kill us. When has the potential for destruction that Covid did, the clock gets moved up for survival’s sake.

            eb

        4. Speaking of MRNA vaccine technology, Dr Robert Malone who developed it, has called for a halt to the vaccination push.

            1. “UPDATE: Malone reached out to Logically, stating that he did not invent the mRNA vaccines, but instead the “vaccine technology platform.”

              Your point?

  5. “It seems like the issue should be antibodies whether produced naturally or through vaccinations.”

    If you “follow the science,” that is the issue.

    If you want to control others and demand submission, then you evade that issue.

  6. The George Mason professor is a ‘nazi’ right? Along with JT. Everyone who disagrees with a leftist narrative is a ‘nazi’ and never doubt it.

    No matter how this turns out it will lead to further Balkanization of this cesspool of a country which I look forward to.

    I want a divorce.

    antonio

  7. Re: Prof Tuirley:

    “You are not allowed to discuss whether it is responsible for some like Zywicki to decline the vaccine due to natural antibodies.
    The university issued a statement that did not address Zywicki’s case directly or even the underlying question of requiring vaccinations for those with natural antibodies. One possibility is that the university could argue that the risk of vaccinations is so low that there is no reasonable basis for declining vaccination. On the other hand, it could claim that the variation among natural antibodies and the administrative burden is very high in allowing such exceptions to be claimed. However, it would seem like the university could simply require a test showing a minimum level of antibodies. ”

    Dr Marty Makary from John Hopkins has reported that 50% of Americans have already Natural Immunity, if Big Pharma’s Gene Therapies worked that would mean those idiots at NIH/CDC would have their magic Herd Immunity.

    Natural Immunity is far better then any so called Big Pharma Made Vaccines.

    But of far greater concern with what will likely be having deadly results is that if someone has had Covid 19 & recovered that they still have remnants of the virus floating through their system and if they then take the Gene Therapy Jab the two combined can 1st attack the body of those the Jab was given & 2nd can & will cause new virus mutations that can shed/infect to others.

    I’m not a Doctor but I’m smart enough to know the Docs I’m listening to are say Run Like Hell as we are All Under Deadly Assault/Attack by a Binary Bio-Weapon CV19+ Gene Therapies.

  8. Dam Right

    While Todd objects to mandatory vaccine policies, I object to who should & where the vaccine can be administered.

    I want porn star Stormy Daniels to inject me in the right butt cheek. And then spank me so the vaccine can mix in the blood stream.

  9. Since the vaccinated are getting this new variant in equal numbers to those who are not vaccinated it does not make any sense to further pursue these shots. And in fact they do not even test vaccinated for covid unless hospitalized so there could be far more infected who are vaccinated. And if they are going to test antibodies on an unvaccinated person I say let’s see that testing done on a vaccinated person because vaccination clearly does not always lead to immunity. And let’s look at other aspects of immune system in addition to antibodies. Such as T Cells.

  10. Agree with tcanfield on all accounts. The only way the FDA and big pharma has gotten away with passing these (non-) vaccines into (emergency use) authorization, which is NOT full approval, has been to suppress the evidence about the effectiveness of safe, effective, and inexpensive treatments including preventive for covid disease. The “vaccines” are experimental, genetic-based biologics with a history of failure and death among animal subjects they have been tested in. While the benefit/risk ratio MAY be worth it in some subpopulations (old & frail, those with serious compromises to their health, especially lung and heart conditions and immunosuppressed), for most people under 70 in good health that ratio gets dicey. Btw, the use of ivermectin, or hydroxychloroquine, and quercetin is more complicated that suggested by MsDollie above, but she is right in pointing readers to that reference/link. The FLCCC is an international group of physician specialists in critical and pulmonary care who have combed the world-wide medical literature over the past year+ to determine how best to treat covid disease. They, collectively, have treated thousands of patients with impressive results. They too have been hammered by all manner of media, when such media even dives into this issue, and suppressed by our government bodies. There are so many inconsistencies between what the evidence tells us about this virus and the development of drugs and “vaccines”…and what we’re hearing from the authorities. [PhD, public health scientist]

  11. Re: Prof Turley ” I was eager to receive the vaccine and my entire family took the first opportunity to become vaccinated. However, I would be interested in reading a full discussion of this issue. However, there are few places where such a discussion is occurring in an uncensored format.The media has portrayed anyone who does not get the vaccine as morons or even terrorists. ”

    Taking Big Pharma’s mRNA gene therapies, posing as vaccines, will likely be the most deadly decision one has ever made.

    Why in the hell would anyone take one of those Frankenstein Gabs without 1st investigating it?????

    They just didn’t.

    Here’s a short video, 10:29 Minutes, it has two leading Doctors in the field that explain why you wouldn’t want to be a fool that takes that mRNA crap:

    VIDEO: Head of Baylor Medical School Confirms Covid-19 Vaccine is Deadly

    89,160 views

    ·

    Aug 2, 2021
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    The Alex Jones Show
    The Alex Jones Show

    Alex Jones plays videos of top medical professionals who have done research in modern vaccine technology warning the public about the deadly dangers of the Covid-19 injection.

    https://banned.video/watch?id=6108785cebbfdc2563240e70

  12. Once a person understands this Orwellian pandemic culture is not about medicine or science, but about control, it all makes sense.

  13. Surely even Professor Turley has heard of the Nuremberg Code? Speaking of things we’re “not allowed” to talk about. Or the lawsuit by Thomas Renz on behalf of a whistleblower from within the insurance industry indicating that at the time of filing, over 45k people had died within 72 hours of getting the jab. Is that your definition of “low risk?”

  14. Turley says:

    “The media has portrayed anyone who does not get the vaccine as morons or even terrorists.”

    ALL the media? Even your beloved Fox News? Can you paint with a broader brush? Can’t you be more *journalistic* and less of a polemicist? We expect facts from you, not gross exaggerations.

    1. Again we have to hear Jeff throw “FOX NEWS” at the good Professor as a way to try to argue against his the professor’s point. Of course it is not on point, it is useless and it does not further the discussion. In fact when Jeff does the “FOX NEWS” thing it is an attempt to stifle the discussion rather than to push it along.

      Okay Jeff, 99% of the media portrays anyone who doesn’t get the vaccine as morons or terrorists…feel better.

      PS. I am conservative and I argue the conservative POV all the time, but I think anyone that has not had the virus and who doesn’t get the vaccine is a moron. I was extremely anxious to get my shots and I helped my wife get hers as quickly as possible too. For someone to not get a vaccine against this virus is non-sensical and/or scared or just contrarian to a point of self-destruction.

      PSS. One common political or cultural fallacy making the rounds these days is that it is exclusively conservatives, Trump voters or rednecks that are vaccine hesitant, but the vaccination rates among Blacks and other minorities is just as high as the aforementioned rednecks. Would the Democrats like to promulgate a new law that mandates a vaccine in order to vote?

      PSSS. Wouldn’t mandating proof of vaccine, a vaccine that I needed to show an ID to receive, be seen as racist under the new liberal paradigm of IDs being somehow racist??

      1. HullBobby,

        I was wrong about you. You do have common sense by getting the vaccine.

        As an attorney, Turley knows better than to make such blanket accusations about “the media.” He could never get away with it in a court of law. He should cite which specific individuals in the media have called the unvaccinated morons or terrorists. Is that too much to ask?

        It should be noted that Turley never fails to mention that he and his family did not hesitate to get vaccinated. His repeated admission is telling. He obviously wants to go on the record that he does NOT subscribe to the paranoid suspicion of the medical establishment prevalent among Trumpists. As an intelligent and well-read academic, his example of getting himself and his family vaccinated would be good enough for me. It’s ironic that Trumpists on this blog respect Turley’s legal opinion but do not value his opinion that the vaccines are eminently safe.

        1. Jeffsilberman,

          I have noticed a lot of people who are conservative or supposedly skeptics of vaccines efficacy firstly declare that they took the vaccine before going on a criticism of mandates and masking up.

          It kind of confirms the point that many conservatives or trumpists know or get the idea that most of the unvaccinated are within their camp. It’s hard to claim “lefties” compose the majority of unvaccinated individuals since they are the ones who have been pushing the most for vaccinations and the basic protections such as social distancing and masking. Conservatives and trumpists have spent the majority of the time mocking and defying those who are trying to stave off the virus.

          It’s that mockery and defiance that easily allows for correctly assuming that they consist of the majority of the unvaccinated. I find it interesting that they use the hesitancy of blacks and Hispanics to deflect from being blamed for what is happening. The black community has legitimate concerns, but what I find ironic is the paranoia and ignorance swirling around the conservatives and trumpists is not helping them either. But it sure is a good excuse to hide behind when faced with the obvious when it comes to blame.

          1. The black community has legitimate concerns, but what I find ironic is the paranoia and ignorance swirling around the conservatives and trumpists is not helping them either.

            What legitimate concerns does the black community have?

          2. Svelaz please explain how it is hypocritical for a conservative to get the vaccine and yet still be against mandating the vaccine. If you are pro-choice and have had an abortion are you are hypocrite for not wanting mandated abortions? You get believe, as I do, that the vaccine is a very helpful tool in our bag of things to help with our own safety and yet not want to demand it for everyone.

            Should everyone be mandated to wear a condom when having relations with a new partner as a way to prevent AIDS? Should all single women be mandated to take the pill to avoid having babies out of wedlock which is proven to be a cause of many societal ills? Should cars be mandated to go no faster than 45 MPH? Should pot be illegal? Should Pepsi and Coke be illegal?

          3. Svelaz,

            You nailed it. The fact that Trumpists believe that what motivates the medical establishment is a desire for totalitarian control of their lives as opposed to a humanitarian desire to save them proves that no good deed goes unpunished. Conservatives believe government is not to be trusted- it is their bedrock narrative. Accordingly, they can’t afford to undermine that narrative by acknowledging that government did something good. They must a nefarious reason behind the mask mandates and vaccinations that coincides their distrust of government.

        2. I don’t look to lawyers for medical advice just as I don’t go to a doctor for a legal opinion.

          1. As if your local country doctor knows more about Covid-19 than the all the medical specialists and scientists who work at the CDC.

      2. You may be hearing about Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) . This is the vaccine industry’s worst nightmare. Although extremely rare. In ADE, certain antibodies make it easier for viruses to get into cells. This is bad because it would mean a virus or a vaccine makes people more at risk for severe disease. There has never, in history, been a global rollout of vaccines at this scale. The COVID-19 vaccines are “leaky”, that is imperfect, they don’t stop individuals from getting infected, and spreading the virus, as we saw in the recent Provincetown case. So rather than admitting that universal vaccination is a mistake, they are now recommending booster shots. Administer vaccines only to those in high risk categories. Acknowledge natural immunities and accept them as a proxy for the vaccine.

        1. Alfred, you make a lot of sense. I don’t presume to know the answer, but I would strongly recommend high risk individuals to take the shot.

          No one should be forced to take a shot.

          One question that needs to be thought about, since this virus can mutate (along with other things) would natural immunity provide better long term results?

          1. No, natural immunity comes with the risk of Covid turning on you in the initial infection and lasts for 6-9 months. That’s why trump’s natural immunity strategy was so flawed. For 70% of the world to have the same immunity window, at the same time was extremely misguided and, basically, impossible. And that’s what it would’ve taken for enough ‘natural immunity’ to suppress the pandemic.

            Only way to achieve that 70% target is through massive immunization. Basic science established in the early days of the pandemic right there. Too bad trump, atlas and the throngs of idiots that hung on their every word had to voluntarily wedge their heads that far up their up their butts not to see that.

            eb

            1. “No, natural immunity comes with the risk of Covid turning on you in the initial infection and lasts for 6-9 months”

              You will have to explain what this sentence says. It makes no sense. Neither does the rest of your post, but let’s deal with one sentence at a time.

              SM

              1. S. Meyer,

                This is what he’s talking about,

                “ How does the Delta variant dodge the immune system? Scientists find clues.”

                “ The Delta variant of the coronavirus can evade antibodies that target certain parts of the virus, according to a new study published on Thursday in Nature. The findings provide an explanation for diminished effectiveness of the vaccines against Delta, compared with other variants.”

                https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/07/08/health/delta-variant-covid-vaccine-immunity.amp.html

                This is why the professor in Turley’s column may not be successful in arguing his case against a vaccine mandate.

                Given the increasing numbers of cases with the unvaccinated how many of those unvaccinated are people who already had Covid?

                The antibodies produced by the first infection has been shown to last six months at the most. Those who first got COVID at the onset of the pandemic may no longer have an effective natural immunity.

                Plus there’s the emerging evidence that the delta variant is adapting or going around vaccinated people’s defenses. As long as there are still people ignoring basic precautions such as masking and social distancing there is a very good chance a vaccine resistant will emerge. This is why it’s important to vaccinate as many people as possible so the virus has less opportunity to mutate into a strain that will threaten everyone all over again.

                1. “S. Meyer,
                  This is what he’s talking about,”

                  How do you know? You have the same problems, but that doesn’t mean you can interpret what Bug said.

                  If you think I will correct everything wrong in your response, you are as crazy as Bug.

                  I’ll say you are WRONG and leave it at that. Everyone knows you have no credibility and you don’t understand what you link to.

      3. Good post hullbobby. Disregard Silberman’s outbursts, he’s jealous of Turley’s legal insights and he’s not yet found a reasonable exit ramp from the insane Democratic party.

        My wife and I got lucky when one of my clients got us on a list for the vaccine. My wife has Leukemia and a compromised immune system. I couldn’t shutdown during tax season and of course the concern was I would bring it home. My 13 year old son is not going to get the vaccine at this time. I don’t begrudge anyone choosing to not participate in what is essentially a clinical trial. The messaging on risk assessment has been all over the place. Trust is very low. I see it as a good thing that it’s mutating into variants,

        1. Olly, I am glad you got the vaccine and best wishes going forward. We all know that Trump had many flaws but I think it is safe to assume that he would have gotten the vaccine FDA approved by this time and that would help the vaccine hesitant. Biden just doesn’t get things done unless it is some far left appeasing idea or some policy that does the opposite of whatever Trump’s policies accomplished.

          1. Thank you hullbobby and I do pray that everyone finds that right path they believe will provide them health and happiness.

            It really doesn’t matter what Trump might have gotten done with regard to the FDA, it’s Biden’s to manage now. And as you said, running a government with a singular purpose to do the opposite of whatever the Trump administration did is as juvenile as it gets. This might satiate the 20-30 percent of their party, but this America last strategy will unify the other 70%, Independents and Conservatives in the midterms. Hence the need for the Democrats to continue the Covid pandemic hysteria through the midterms.

      4. “I think anyone that has not had the virus and who doesn’t get the vaccine is a moron” — That’s your statement. Why would it be moronic to avoid the experimental vaccine when there are other treatment options available that are just as effective and ones that don’t have the same adverse reaction rates including death? Doctor after doctor that have prescribed Ivermectin and Hydroxychlorquine have had great success rates. The anti-inflammatory properties of those drugs give your immune system time to kill the COVID virus. I know two people that went to the hospital for COVID and they were turned away and given oxygen. My wife and I recommended them to a local doctor and they were prescribed Ivermectin, antibiotics and vitamins remotely. We picked up the meds and took them to their house and dropped them off at the door. They began improving after three days and after one week had no symptoms. If doctors would start prescribing either one of the above mentioned medications at the onset of getting COVID we wouldn’t need a vaccine. I’ve had COVID and so have my family. It took a week to get over it for all. My aunt, dad, my wife and child. No vaccine, no meds. On the flip side, my wife’s aunt took the vaccine and one week later was dead. A friend of mine in his 70s was one minute spry but one week after taking the vaccine he started getting serious dementia. I know four people that were fully vaccinated and they still got COVID. I’ve known 20 people that got COVID and of those one died because he was denied treatment of the above meds by his status quo doctor. Moronic? I don’t think so.

        1. Anonymous, some of the drugs you mentioned are impossible to get due to politics, and you know it. Yes, if you don’t get the vaccine you are not making yourself as safe as possible. Your idea is to not prevent the disease but rather to just fight it after you get it. I suppose you don’t get flu shots, or shingle shots, or pneumonia shots, or tetanus shots. I suppose you eat like a glutton and thing you will just take diabetes medications if you get it.

          1. hullbobby, I don’t get flu shots, my wife does and my son does not. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t treatments for shingles, pneumonia and tetanus all approved by the FDA? Even then, every individual consults with their physician to make an informed decision for preventative treatment. You may not be aware but not everyone taking diabetes medication led or is leading an unhealthy lifestyle. Come to think of it, every FDA approved drug is required to disclose possible side effects when they advertise. Have you seen any advertisements for the Covid vaccines?

          2. I have my Yellow Card so I am not vaccine averse. I do, however have Type 1 Diabetes, which is an autoimmune disease, so I am reluctant to fiddle with my immune system too much. The risk of Autoimmune Flare is just not worth it. Consequently I never get the flu shot, which is at best a yearly guessing game. Had shingles already so no need for a shot there. I have no real comorbidities so not concerned about pneumonia.

            My wife and I both had Covid in February. Down for 10 days. It took until late May to get my sense of smell back. Still we are glad we got our immunity the old fashioned way.

            Until I see long term test data, particularly on the effects on autoimmune diseases no mandate, threat, or rule is going to change my mind. No “expert” can make any claim of long term safety until that data is in.

      5. For someone to not get a vaccine against this virus is non-sensical and/or scared or just contrarian to a point of self-destruction.

        Young people who do not want to get the vaccine do not want to get it because their risk of complications from COVID-19 are already extremely low. As such, the marginal reduction of risk is very low.

        Young women, in particular, have concerns about the vaccine’s ability to bear children, and many avoid this vaccine for this reason, even if they get flu shots every year for health reasons.

      6. “[A]nyone that has not had the virus and who doesn’t get the vaccine is a moron.”

        Thank you for reviewing my complete medical history, and for your comprehensive diagnosis of my current medical condition. You saved me the time and expense of a visit to my personal physician.

        /S

    2. But he is not a journalist – he’s writing an opinion piece. Of course I an understand why many cannot distinguish the difference these days

      1. Whig98,

        So what that Turley is writing an opinion piece. Opinions are predicated upon facts! Is he entitled to make up his own facts? If not, then even an opinion piece can be criticized for making false statements notwithstanding Turley is not acting as a journalist.

        1. Turley is not making up facts. He did not say all of the media, choosing only to talk about the media in general. You like to whine and cry that Turley has hurt your feelings. He won’t talk to you, which gets you angry, something expected from the spoiled unlearned brat you are.

          Why would Turley want to waste his time talking to a jerk?

          SM

        2. What nonsense you write jeffsilberman: opinion “the world has flat spots”, fact “the world is practically round”, Opinion “you are a moron”, fact “I couldn’t know, because I’ve never meet you”.

    3. It may come as a surprise to you that merely typing the words “Fox News ” is not an actual refutation of an argument or opinion.

  15. Another discussion that is being censored is the fact that there are alternatives to vaccines. Ivermectin is one and Quercetin is another. It’s all about the money and control not medical science and health.

    1. It’s all about the 2022 midterms & the Democrats wanting to force the fraud laced practices that served them so well in 2020.

  16. The real problem with mandates is that the so called “vaccine” which does not meet the definition of a vaccine is not FDA approved. It is only allowed, not approved and it is against the law to force someone to take anything that is not FDA approved and mandates are force.

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