Biden’s “Come on, Man” Defense Will Not Fly on Religious Freedom

Below is my column on the President’s dismissal of any objections to the Covid vaccine and his call for mass firings of first responders who remain defiant. The comments reflect a growing call for states and the federal government to reject any religious exemptions for vaccination.

Here is the column:

“Come on, man,” seems to be President Biden’s signature response to any uncomfortable question. The phrase is meant to be both dismissive and conclusive in ending inquiries, frequently used to counter reporters before often walking away. Indeed, it is so often repeated that it appears on T-Shirts or coffee mugs and in remixes.

This week, however, it was not the pesky press but freedom itself that got hit with a version of the comeback. When asked during a CNN town hall program about those still objecting to taking COVID vaccines, Biden mocked them and their claimed rights with “Come on, ‘freedom.’ ” He then called for any police officers, firefighters, medical personnel or other first responders to be fired en masse if they refuse to be vaccinated.

Biden’s response to the question was applauded by the CNN audience, as if to say “Freedom Pfff, that is so last century.” And he reduced any vaccine refusals to claiming “I have the freedom to kill you with my COVID.”

He is not alone in such rhetoric. Chicago’s Mayor Lori Lightfoot declared that police officers refusing to take vaccines are insurrectionists.

The problem is that the courts already recognize some religious exemption arguments. Those arguments are based on both the constitutional protection of religious values but also laws like Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, 42 U.S.C. §2000e-2(a), which declares unlawful any “employment practice for an employer … to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment because of such individual’s … religion.”

The federal government also is subject to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), which prohibits the government and other covered entities like the District of Columbia from “substantially burden[ing]” a person’s exercise of religion. Under RFRA, there is no “Come on, man,” defense. Instead, the federal government must show that the burden imposed furthers a “compelling governmental interest” and is “the least restrictive means” of furthering that interest.

There is a move in many states to refuse to allow such exemptions, but courts have pushed back. In New York, the state is appealing a preliminary injunction against its refusal to allow religious exemptions to its vaccine mandate. A lower court found the governor’s mandate “has effectively foreclosed the pathway to seeking a religious accommodation that is guaranteed under Title VII.”

Likewise, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals this month affirmed such a preliminary injunction against Western Michigan University. The university allowed students to ask for individual exemptions but failed to grant religious exemptions under its discretionary policy.

The issue reached the Supreme Court this week when health workers challenged a similar law in Maine allowing for medical but not religious exemptions. Justice Stephen Breyer rejected an emergency motion but too much has been made over that order, which was not based on the merits of the claim. The appellate court was already expediting review of the case, and the dismissal was “without prejudice.” The health care workers can refile if circumstances change or if the appellate court rules against them.  They also can refile if the lower court has not reached a decision by Oct. 29, when the vaccine requirement is scheduled to go into effect.

Previously in the term, Justice Amy Coney Barrett similarly declined to grant a request for emergency relief on behalf of eight students at Indiana University against a vaccine mandate. That mandate previously was upheld by conservative Judge Frank Easterbrook, who wrote for an unanimous Seventh Circuit panel that “each university may decide what is necessary to keep other students safe in a congregate setting.” He cited the Supreme Court’s 1905 ruling in Jacobson v. Massachusetts, upholding a state small pox vaccine mandate. However, there was one major difference in Klaassen v. Trustees of Indiana University: Indiana University allows for medical or religious exemptions.

Various commentators and activists are pushing states to follow the lead of New York and refuse to recognize any religious objections to vaccines. This week, Jessica Levinson, a clinical professor of law at Loyola Marymount Law School in Los Angeles, wrote a column for MSNBC entitled “Covid Vaccine Religious Exemptions Should Not Exist.” Professor Levinson, however, refutes an argument not made in these cases. Courts have long rejected the notion that “each person would be in charge of which laws she wanted to comply with and when.” In 1990, it was Justice Antonin Scalia, a conservative icon, who wrote the opinion rejecting the use of peyote under religious claims.

Levinson quotes the Supreme Court from an 1879 case, asking: “Suppose one believed that human sacrifices were a necessary part of religious worship; would it be seriously contended that the civil government under which he lived could not interfere to prevent a sacrifice?” It was a curious choice of support. The question was asked in Reynolds vs. United States, one of the most religiously intolerant opinions in Supreme Court history. Most people would recoil from the prejudice that comes out of the case, which denounces the Mormon church for adopting a practice “almost exclusively a feature of the life of Asiatic and of African people.”

Ironically, Reynolds defended Western and Christian morality against non-Christian values.

Professor Levinson is correct, of course, that religious claims are balanced against the interests of the state in public health cases. That, however, is precisely what these litigants are seeking to raise. Most states allow for such exemptions while many private employers impose alternative measures, such as daily testing or remote-working conditions. States like Maine and New York offer no recognition, let alone accommodation, for religious objections to the Covid vaccine.

Again, religious objections can be recognized as valid but still fail to overcome countervailing arguments or simple accommodations. In Boston, for example, a Muslim objected to the flu vaccine in 2011 due to the use of pork ingredients; the hospital prevailed because it offered a vaccine free of such ingredients.

Moreover, even if there are exemptions to vaccines, it does not mean people cannot face other limitations, like remote learning or workplace conditions. The point is simple: Just as religious individuals do not have the absolute right to refuse any obligation as citizens, governments do not have an absolute right to impose any obligations on citizens.

Vaccines seem to have become the latest battleground for our age of rage; there is little willingness to recognize countervailing arguments or values. People who object to vaccines are deemed “insurrectionists,” while raising religious freedoms is now likened to claiming “the freedom to kill you with my COVID.”

It is the same dismissive response that is often given to objections under other rights like free speech: Those are just abstractions. As Biden said in an earlier call for greater censorship, free speech is “killing people,” so come on, man.

The categorical rejection of any religious-exemption case runs against the grain of the Constitution as well as federal statutes. If the Justice Department goes into court with the president’s dismissive position, it could find itself on the wrong side of the next “Come on, man,” moment.

181 thoughts on “Biden’s “Come on, Man” Defense Will Not Fly on Religious Freedom”

  1. As someone who is very pro-vaccine and is even willing to listen to arguments in favor of vaccine mandates in certain situations I have to ask of the leftist control freaks why none of them has met the other side half way and given an exemption to people who have already had covid.

    Why no allowance for people who are at least as immune as those of us who are vaccinated? Why no exemption for a 24 year old woman who is either pregnant or is trying to become pregnant? The safety of the 24 year old woman is almost assured due to her age and yet the control freaks will not countenance any straying from THEIR decree.

    The vaccine mandate nationally for all companies with 100 or more employees is another Biden fumble. Everything the guy touches goes wrong and the mandate is proving to be another issue where the dumb president with dementia should not be listened to or followed. Look are Southwest Airlines and how they backtracked. Look at cities firing cops. Biden never thinks things through and his staff are a bunch of young lefty college students who think policy is a seminar that is diagramed on a blackboard.

    The latest Biden policy mistake that has had ZERO study and will, if passed, need to be either reversed or else stopped by the Scotus and of course I am talking about Janet Yellin’s insane move to tax UNEARNED income. Imagine a policy where a person or entity is taxed on a capital gain that has not been realized yet?!??!? So I guess the government will levy a tax on a capital gain that has not actually been received and then what…hope that the gain doesn’t reverse in the next year? It is insane! This is the government that would close the airbase prior to pulling out the citizens. This is the administration that tears down a border wall without thinking about the ramifications. This is a group that has a supply line crises and the head of the CABINET DEPARTMENT in charge sneaks, SNEAKS, off to a two month leave of absence because him and his husband adopted a baby. This is a government that as the Chinese deploy or test a brand new class of missile “proudly” announces that they made the first female 4 star admiral who is actually a man who became a woman. They are not serious and it is really harming the nation.

  2. Someone didn’t get the memo that states in part; critical race theory is not taught in elementary schools or high schools,” American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten said in July.

    Loyola University Maryland’s racial justice center has teamed up with Ms. Magazine and the National Women’s Studies Association to release a lesson plan and critical race theory guide for K-12 schools.

    Journey to Justice: A Critical Race Theory Primer “includes articles, essays, lesson plans, an annotated bibliography and a COMloquium conversation that addresses and examines the perils of teaching critical race theory from kindergarten to college settings,” according to Ms. Magazine. The Karson Institute for Race, Peace & Social Justice at the Jesuit Catholic university in Baltimore helped develop the lesson plan.
    https://www.thecollegefix.com/catholic-university-helps-create-critical-race-theory-lessons-for-k-12-schools/

    1. Olly, one of the concepts of education, and public education in particular, is to expose students to a variety of viewpoints.

      Conservative parents cannot keep their children in a safe bubble and expect them to grow intellectually. At some points kids have to hear views that may contradict their parents.

      1. Anonymous:

        If the KKK infested the public education system, and incorporated its racist, hateful ideology into curriculum all across the country, would you shrug your shoulders and say, “at some points kids have to hear views that may contradict their parents.” Would you sic the FBI on parents who objected?

        1. Karen, kids should know about the KKK’s history. Kids should know that groups not too different from the KKK are intimidating school board members; especially non-White members.

          1. Anonymous – kids should know the history of the KKK and Jim Crow. They should not be taught curriculum designed by the KKK and Jim Crow supporters, with the intent of turning out more KKK members.

            Get it?

            Get how parents objecting to this are not domestic terrorists or “not too different from the KKK”? If you took a few minutes to research, you would hear from Indian, Chinese, Korean, and black parents who objected to the racist teachings of CRT, and DEI. They have every right to object, pull their kids from school, or get the school board recalled or voted out.

            1. Karen, what “racist teachings of CRT, and DEI” are you referring to?

              The Encyclopaedia Britannica: “critical race theory (CRT), intellectual and social movement and loosely organized framework of legal analysis based on the premise that race is not a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category that is used to oppress and exploit people of colour. Critical race theorists hold that racism is inherent in the law and legal institutions of the United States insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans.”

              Do you dispute that race isn’t “a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category”?

              Do you dispute that race has been “used to oppress and exploit people of colour”?

      2. So right!

        The STATE children must be raised and indoctrinated correctly by the STATE.

        Freedom is evil and must be eradicated from the face of the earth.

        Central Planning, Control of the Means of Production (taxation/regulation), Redistribution of Wealth and Social Engineering are the highest and best aspirations of human beings.

        Self-governance has failed; communism is success.

        NOT!
        ____

        The Founders gave Americans the one and only thing they could: Freedom.

        You rejected it.

      3. So now tell us….why should the Snowflakes on the Left be protected from viewpoints that challenge their thinking?

        Sounds like you want a one way street on this .

        Of course that doesn’t surprise me one bit from those on the Left.

      4. Don’t agree. Teachers should teach, not pontificate about their political viewpoints. There is never free and open discussion as is demonstrated time and time again by teachers humiliating students who don’t agree with them.
        And how can can they find all the time for a variety of viewpoints – when they are supposed to be teaching reading, writing and arithmetic? Hate it when all that old fashioned stuff gets in the way.

        1. Jim says:

          “Don’t agree. Teachers should teach, not pontificate about their political viewpoints. There is never free and open discussion as is demonstrated time and time again by teachers humiliating students who don’t agree with them.
          And how can can they find all the time for a variety of viewpoints – when they are supposed to be teaching reading, writing and arithmetic? Hate it when all that old fashioned stuff gets in the way.”

          All of us are too young to remember, but this CRT controversy is not unlike parents in the 1920’s and 30’s complaining about teachers educating their children about Evolution vs. Creationism.

          Though he does not subscribe to all its tenets, Turley says that he *values* teaching CRT to his students. I’m no expert on the subject, but if Turley says its valuable information, that’s good enough for me!

          As I have often stated, I more often than not agree with Turley’s considered opinions. My complaint with him is his hypocritical failure to voice his complaints against his employer, Fox News, and his Fox colleagues who commit the same journalistic sins that Turley does rightly point out at Fox’s cable competitors.

    2. Critical Racists’ Theory presumes diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgment), inequity, and exclusion (DIE), not limited to racism, sexism, that denies human dignity and agency, and normalizes color blocs (e.g. “people of color”), color quotas (e.g. Jew privilege), and affirmative discrimination.

    3. Democrats are desperate. That McAuliffe, former Governor of VA, and well connected to Demokkkrats elites, is tied with an inexperienced political candidate like Youngkin, tells you how terribly Democrats have positioned themselves with their maniacal, lunatic, divisive Woke religion.

      “Former Bill Clinton campaign manager and Democratic strategist James Carville sent a tartly worded fundraising email to supporters of former Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe on Monday, telling them, “I hate guys like Glenn Youngkin.”

      It’s the latest frantic, even desperate-sounding email pitch sent out by McAuliffe, governor from 2014 to 2018, who is seeking a second, nonconsecutive term. Political professionals typically avoid overt professions of hatred of a political rival in campaign literature, making the email a stark sign of growing Democratic concern about the race.”

      Realclearpolitics

      1. I wonder how many students didn’t even make it to the 11th grade.

        And I can tell from the heyjackaz’z’ dot com site the drop-out gang bangers can hardly sh**t each other in Chicago.

        Why in the hell don’t people just walk out of places like Chiraq, NYC, LA, Houston & other American Commie/Demi/Rino Marxist crapholes.

        *******
        How Can 84% Of Chicago Public Schools Students Graduate When Only 26% Of 11th-Graders Are Proficient In Reading, Math?
        Tyler Durden’s Photo
        by Tyler Durden

        https://www.zerohedge.com/political/how-can-84-chicago-public-schools-students-graduate-when-only-26-11th-graders-are

  3. In the E.U. a citizen can present an official document of recovery in lieu of a vaccine certificate. In my state, over 25% of the population has been officially documented as having had COVID.

    Some of the folks refusing have already had COVID or may have a potential for adverse effects. They cannot be pigeonholed in a single category.

    It is not a single, linear person who does not get the vaccine. I have had both shots and will get the booster. I am not against vaccinations. I do also see why some folks have other logical reasons not to get it, such as natural immunity from having recovered. Also, some do not have logical reasons.

    If the government and state organizations would accept an official, physician-issued document of recovery, I suspect the tension would significantly decrease.

    “Logic!” Said the professor half to himself. “Why don’t the teach logic at these schools?” C.S. Lewis, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe.

  4. From the Israeli data, the vaccines do not contribute to community immunity. From the British data, the vaccines reduce cases but increase the risk of death 6x. From the American data, the vaccinated carry high viral titers, exhibit symptom suppression, and are, in fact, silent spreaders. From the Spanish data, planned parent/hood was neither a good nor exclusive Choice. Vaccinated immunity is neither robust nor durable, and may, in fact, interfere with development of long-term memory immunity. The risk of adverse events associated with the vaccines, exceeds the conditional risk of infection and disease progression in all but a minority of the population. Early treatment when necessary. A respirator when vulnerable. The masks offer viable legal indemnity, but increase risk in actual use.

      1. You mean repost.

        From a “recognized” medical journal? Perhaps a diversity of “recognized” medical journals, medical institutions and people… persons, and authorized government sources, to reduce biases (e.g. peer-reviewed) and increase information in recorded, spoken data.

        1. N.N.

          It sounds like recognized medical journals haven’t furnished those studies. ..Oh well, so much for that..!

      2. How about you conduct your own research. The information is available. Do your own research.
        I have done mine. I have the background as a molecular biologist to read and discern. If you trust the government or it’s agencies, take the global pandemic poison. Rest assured. The recovery from the SARS-CoV2 is greater than 99% and up between 70 and onward, 95%. The global pandemic poison is 100% irreversible!

      3. Those are few and far between these days. Most are funded via a government or pharmaceutical company.
        There is substantial data out there showing the dangers of this cocktails of poison that are being pushed.
        Don’t trust others, do your own research aside from GOOGLE or BING.

    1. https://thelibertydaily.com/irish-city-proves-definitively-that-vaccines-do-not-stop-covid-19-and-appear-to-make-people-more-susceptable/

      Oh & then there’s that small legal issue of Fauci/Bill Gates/Obama/etc.., committing Nuremberg type Crimes Against Humanity world-wide.

      Con law prof Francis Boyle see no reason that State AGs & local DA s cannot bring case against them under state laws.

      ********

      https://www.infowars.com/posts/nih-admits-funding-gain-of-function-covid-experiments-gives-ecohealth-five-days-to-report-data-2/

  5. There are very few real religious objectors to the vaccine. Most of the ones claiming religious objections are lying. This should truly offend anyone who believes in actual religious freedom.

    1. Pray, how have you arrived at this conclusion? Have you mastered a device that peers into the souls of people? How large was the sample size?

        1. The Pope is representative of the Church and helps to interpret the religion. The religion (i.e. behavioral protocol) is not subject to his beliefs. People… persons cannot share responsibility.
          As for the non-sterilizing vaccines that permit infection, progression, and transmission (e.g. silent spread), people… persons need to evaluate the risks and benefits and make their own choice. People who have robust and durable immunity are not dependent on other people’s choices. People who are immune compromised should either isolate, wear respirators, or be assisted by seroconverted people… persons.

          1. Wen

            There are actually people who claim that Pope Francis is a Catholic.

            After reading his pronouncements, I have my doubts.

      1. Religious people, true religious people,would have objected to vaccines or other medical treatments long before covid. A sudden and very specific objection to the covid vaccine is a clear give away that they are lying.

    2. Most of the ones claiming religious objections are lying.

      There is no objective standard to determine religiosity.

  6. The religious exemption is usually denied because most religions don’t object to the requirement of being vaccinated. Just declaring that you have a deeply held religious belief as a reason is not enough. You HAVE to articulate exactly what that belief is and where your religion prohibits the use of vaccines. Employers CAN force an employee who is seeking an exemption to prove the sincerity of their religious beliefs.

    The pope, orthodox Jewish leaders, and even imams have stated that their religions don’t prohibit being vaccinated. Those who oppose vaccination mandates are disingenuously using religious exemption as an excuse to avoid the law. Especially when it comes to police officers and firefighters. They have no real argument on not to be vaccinated. They interact with people all the time and that includes being in close quarters with potential infected individuals.

    They are being given a choice, choose to get vaccinated or find another job. They are not being forced to get vaccinated. They are being confronted with a personal responsibility that is making a choice on their own. None of them have any constitutional right to that job. None.

    Biden isn’t firing them. They are choosing for themselves whether to vaccinate or not. If they don’t want to they don’t have to, but neither is their employer required to keep them employed if they don’t want to adhere to the policy of vaccination requirements.

    The Supreme Court has rejected challenges to such mandates because they know officers don’t really have a constitutional argument that requires employers to keep them if they choose not to vaccinate.

    Religious exemptions are not very legitimate excuses unless your religion explicitly states on their holy books that vaccination is sin or heretical.

    1. “They are being given a choice . . .”

      BS.

      “Your money or your life,” at the point of a gun, is *not* a choice. And neither is: “A vaccination or your job,” at the point of the government’s police powers.

      A choice is voluntary — in the absence of physical force or the threat of physical force.

      Shopping at a grocery store is choice. Surrendering your money to a gun-wielding robber is *not* choice.

      When the government declares: “Give us your money, or we will seize your property or send you to jail” — that is not a choice. That is naked aggression. When it dictates: “Get a vaccination, or lose your job” — that is not a choice. It is naked coercion.

      No matter how much the Left tries to evade it, the fact is that the government, by its nature, is an institution of physical force. It is its police powers.

      1. It’s required for a government job. No one has a right to a government job.
        For other jobs, if you work for a large employer, the government’s requirement is that the person can *either* be vaccinated *or* have weekly testing. Why are you dishonestly portraying it as “Get a vaccination, or lose your job.” Maybe you recognize that “get a weekly test or lose your job” isn’t the terrible threat you’re trying to make this it out to be.

          1. Oh look: the guy who claims that he taught logic for many years is resorting to ad hominem and begging the question.

  7. Let me premise this with stating that I’m vaccinated. I’m high risk, as I have asthma. I was very happy to have the opportunity to lessen my risk.

    However…

    Our country asked our first responders, police, fire, EMT, and medical, as well as military, to put their lives, and their families’ lives, on the line, and keep working during the Covid pandemic, before there was ever a vaccine. A great many of them got sick, and they brought it home to their families. Some of them lost elderly or other vulnerable members of their families because they kept working during a pandemic, before there was a vaccine, while so many others got to work from home, or collect unemployment.

    After putting their lives on the line for us, some of those exact same people are now viewed as pariahs, dirty garbage to be thrown out. In some instances, they will not be able to collect unemployment if they’re fired for refusing the mandate. In the military, our administration who put them in harms way wanted them to get a dishonorable discharge, alongside rapists and murderers. I am shocked that our lawmakers had to actually do battle to prevent this.

    That is not ethical. It is also not scientific. A great many of these first responders and military have already recovered from Covid. Their immunity is greater than or equal to the vaccinated. In fact, there was one study that indicated that naturally acquired immunity recognizes 56 more binding sights than the S protein. This is because they were exposed to the entire virus, not just the spike protein, which is essentially the site specific Velcro that sticks to our organs.

    The goal is supposed to be herd immunity, which is achieved through the combination of naturally acquired immunity, vaccine acquired immunity, and natural resistance. Naturally acquired immunity is a significant weapon in the arsenal to fight Covid.

    All of that said, the manner in which SARS-CoV2 replicates produces variants with regularity. The variants that are blocked entirely by immunity cannot replicate and vanish. It does not matter how that immunity was achieved – either by a vaccine or recovery from Covid. Only the variants that can circumvent our immune system can replicate and persist. This is viral evolution happening in real time. Immunity selects out the variants that can get around it.

    Those who have recovered from Covid will have greater immunity, and will theoretically filter out more variants than the unvaccinated. Either way, breakthrough infections in the vaccinated, or those with naturally acquired immunity, are still contagious.

    Instead of treating the unvaccinated like they are pariahs, and only testing them, everyone in a job that brings them into contact with the medically vulnerable should receive regular testing.

    We’ve reached the point where everyone who wanted to get vaccinated has done so. We got vaccinated to improve our defenses against a virus we expect to encounter in everyday life, whether it’s a breakthrough infection in someone vaccinated, in a child too young to vaccinate, or from someone who was never vaccinated but got sick.

    We’ve also reached the point where a pretty high percentage of people who were not vaccinated have gotten Covid, sometimes at their peril. This means naturally acquired immunity is rising.

    We really should be testing the population to calculate who proportion have protective antibodies, to include in herd immunity analysis. This hyper focus only on vaccination rates is not good science.

    1. Karen,

      Here’s where you lost me:

      “Everyone in a job that brings them into contact with the medically vulnerable should receive regular testing”.

      Karen, if regular testing is crucial, then arguably vaccines are crucial too. After all, ‘An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure’.

      1. Anonymous – you can still get Covid if you’re vaccinated. You can still spread it if you’re vaccinated. Yet only the unvaccinated seem to be required to be tested regularly in the workplace. That is illogical.

        1. Karen, ‘here’ everyone gets tested. I tested Friday and again this morning. I don’t know what industry you’re referring to.

      2. I think she meant to say regular antibody testing, not COVID testing. After all, If someone already has the antibodies in their system, however they were acquired, no further prophylaxis is really necessary and may actually be counterproductive.

    2. “This hyper focus only on vaccination rates is not good science.”

      I agree.

      “[People] have already recovered from Covid. Their immunity is greater than or equal to the vaccinated.”

      That’s not yet established.

      “There’s still no scientific consensus about the exact strength or durability of the natural immunity a person gains when they recover from Covid-19, or how much it varies from person to another” (https://www.statnews.com/2021/10/19/politics-is-derailing-a-crucial-debate-over-the-immunity-you-get-from-recovering-from-covid-19/) Scientific fact isn’t determined by consensus, but anyone who wants to deal truthfully with the science should be looking at all of the relevant evidence.

      Also, as the above article notes: “Science aside, crafting policy that allows people who’ve been sick with Covid to avoid vaccine mandates could prove impossible. For one, overwhelming evidence shows the three vaccines authorized for use in the U.S. are safe and effective, giving policymakers few compelling reasons to help Americans avoid being vaccinated. For another, it could be difficult to prove prior infection, given the limited supply of reliable antibody tests and the fact that many people who almost certainly were sick with Covid-19 never received a diagnostic test, either. Even if people could show they have antibodies, or prove they had previously tested positive, it would be all but impossible to tell exactly how strong their immunity was, and whether it had waned. Parmet argued that most laws cast a wide net for precisely this reason: It’s simply not practical or worthwhile for governments to write in every plausible exception, especially when there’s no compelling reason a requirement shouldn’t be enforced.”

      1. First, a vaccine mimics an infection in order for your body to mount an immune response. There can be no consensus on how long any type of Covid immunity lasts, because that will take time. It’s a new virus.

        Reasons not to mandate this vaccine:
        1. Iceland suspended the Moderna vaccine, Denmark and Norway suspended it for people 18 and under, and Sweden and Finland suspended it for people under 30, due to its association with myocarditis and pericarditis. This risk was highest among young men, hence why young men who are at very low risk of Covid complications would be hesitant to take it. There are several firefighters and police officers that I know of who are still out from work due to such complications after the shot.

        2. There are well established side effects, such as extreme lethargy and high heart rate. It occurs so often that people are urged to take a few days off of work, or get it on a Friday. I personally had tachycardia, in which my heart rate varyed between 112 and 125, for 2 days. I woke up at 4 in the morning feeling like an alien was trying to escape my rib cage. Luckily, I also experienced the most extreme lethargy in my life, so instead of being concerned that my heart was running like a rabbit, I just wanted to lie back down. Again, people who are statistically at extremely low risk for Covid complications may not evaluate the risk of the side effects worth it.

        3. The vaccine is intended to protect you from contagion. This is why we get vaccinated, so we can walk around an amusement park with visitors from all around the globe, yet be protected from nasty viruses. There is a difference between voluntarily taking a vaccine because you choose to, and forcing everyone around you to get it.

        We’ve already reach the point where pretty much everyone who wants the vaccine has received it. The rest of them will gradually get Covid, until total herd immunity builds up.

        When people don’t make an effort to understand why someone would be concerned about getting a new vaccine, and instead tries to force them against their will, threatening to get them fired, impoverish them, withhold unemployment benefits, get them kicked out of the military, or harass them, then you’re not going to change hearts and minds. You’re going to make them dig their heels in, and demand freedom to make their own choices.

        It’s funny. The entire argument behind putting in place at least some limits on abortion is because it’s not the woman’s body, it’s about someone else’s body that she wants to kill. At some point, most people believe there are limits to when she can kill someone else inside her womb. When it really comes down to “my body, my choice”, it’s the Left that wants the government to control that body.

        1. Oh, and forgot to add:
          4. Biden’s open border policy, allowing over a million border crossings of illegal, unvaccinated aliens, makes his entire vaccine mandate policy ludicrous.

          You can be forced to get vaccinated to keep your job or go to school, but you can cross our border just fine without one. All those unvaccinated illegal aliens go rub shoulders with the vaccinated. I’m surprised it’s the cops, firemen, and nurses who’ve already recovered from Covid that the Left is worried about, and not all the active infections with new variants arriving at the border.

        2. None of this was responsive to what I wrote.

          You claimed that for people who have already recovered from Covid, “Their immunity is greater than or equal to the vaccinated,” when that’s not yet established.

          1. Anonymous, while I’ll grant you that there is some disagreement about the level of protection that a mild or asymptomatic Covid infection generates, this is the gist of what I’ve been finding. Immunity should not only be measured by the levels of circulating antibodies. There is a quality as well as quantity aspect. I’m not advocating for people to deliberately go out there and get Covid. I agree with the study authors that the disease itself is dangerous. However, for those who have recovered from Covid already, this information should be included in our analysis of herd immunity.

            What I will agree with you about is that since this is a new virus, we are learning more about it all the time. There is definitely new information that keeps coming out.

            https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/30919-natural-infection-versus-vaccination-differences-in-covid-antibody-responses-emerge/

            “Vaccination produces greater amounts of circulating antibodies than natural infection. But a new study suggests that not all memory B cells are created equal. While vaccination gives rise to memory B cells that evolve over a few weeks, natural infection births memory B cells that continue to evolve over several months, producing highly potent antibodies adept at eliminating even viral variants.

            The findings highlight an advantage bestowed by natural infection rather than vaccination, but the authors caution that the benefits of stronger memory B cells do not outweigh the risk of disability and death from COVID-19…

            When any virus enters the body, immune cells immediately churn out hordes of circulating antibodies. Foot soldiers of the immune system, these antibodies burn bright but decay at variable rates depending on the vaccine or infection—they may protect us for months or years but then dwindle in number, allowing possible reinfection.

            The immune system has a backup plan: an elite cadre of memory B cells that outlive circulating antibodies to produce so-called memory antibodies that provide long-term protection. Studies suggest that memory B cells for smallpox last at least 60 years after vaccination; those for Spanish flu, nearly a century. And while memory B cells don’t necessarily block reinfection, they can prevent severe disease.

            Recent studies have suggested that within five months of receiving a vaccine or recovering from a natural infection, some of us no longer retain sufficient circulating antibodies to keep the novel coronavirus at bay, but our memory B cells stand vigilant. Until now, however, scientists did not know whether the vaccines could be expected to provide the sort of robust memory B cell response seen after natural infection…

            Vaccination and natural infection elicited similar numbers of memory B cells. Memory B cells rapidly evolved between the first and second dose of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, producing increasingly potent memory antibodies. But after two months, progress stalled. The memory B cells were present in large numbers and expressed potent antibodies, but the antibodies were not getting any stronger. Also, although some of these antibodies were able to neutralize Delta and other variants, there was no overall improvement in breadth.

            With convalescent patients, on the other hand, memory B cells continued to evolve and improve up to one year after infection. More potent and more broadly neutralizing memory antibodies were coming out with every memory B cell update.”

            1. Karen,

              If you want to discuss scientific findings, don’t cherrypick the ones that support you while ignoring those that don’t.

              Again: “There’s still no scientific consensus about the exact strength or durability of the natural immunity a person gains when they recover from Covid-19, or how much it varies from person to another.” Scientific fact isn’t determined by consensus, but anyone who wants to deal truthfully with the science should be looking at all of the relevant evidence.

    3. Karen: you really need to stop trying to play scientist, doctor, nurse or any kind of expert on science or immunology by trying to justify refusal to be vaccinated. You aren’t a scientist. Your penchant for histrionics is pathetic. No one views those gullible enough to fall for the Trumpster/Republican efforts to derail Biden’s presidency as “pariahs, dirty garbage to be thrown out”–just sadly misinformed. Nevertheless, those in leadership positions are responsible for setting and enforcing rules to protect employees and the public. And, it has always been the law that refusing to comply with a safety mandate from your employer is a for-cause grounds for discharge, and that when you are discharged for cause, you are not entitled to unemployment benefits. Besides refusing vaccination, things like refusing to wear a safety harness, safety goggles or a hard hat on the job can get you fired for cause. It has always been the case that, beginning with medical students, nursing students and other health-care students, then licensed employees in health care, all must be vaccinated and also tested for TB. Police and other first responders come in intimate contact with the public at large, including medically-vulnerable people, who have the right to expect that reasonable precautions to protect them from COVID are being taken, which includes vaccination. Hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine have been safely administered world-wide, which is why the numbers are going down, so the vaccine is both safe and effective. Resistance is based on politics, not science or religious belief. Trump and the Republicans are indeed the driving force behind vaccine resistance because they want to derail Biden’s presidency, just like they oppose virtually every bill Biden or the Democrats propose–not because they aren’t good bills–but to try to prevent his success. They don’t care what the majority of the American people want.

      And, Karen, you are wrong about naturally-acquired immunity being superior to vaccination. Valid studies prove otherwise. And, the variants are due to the numbers of those who refuse vaccination. They are spreading COVID and harboring the virus, allowing it to replicate.

      1. Get back to me when the current crop of vaccines have the same long term study data that ever prior approved vaccine had. Until then, they can all go pound salt. The reason I trusted previous vaccines was I knew that proper long term studies were done. What has happened this time has destroyed my confidence in the entire approval process. I am not sure I can trust any new drug or treatment that comes out for any condition from this point forward.

        1. Infowars put they name on the it & source all they can.

          Who are you to slander them & others?

          *******

          Science & Tech
          Sweden Suspends Moderna Shot Indefinitely After Vaxxed Patients Develop Crippling Heart Condition
          Jack Davis | The Western Journal
          October 23rd 2021, 7:21 am

          https://www.infowars.com/posts/sweden-suspends-moderna-shot-indefinitely-after-vaxxed-patients-develop-crippling-heart-condition/

          Denmark Reports Highest Infection Rate Since May Despite 75% of Population Being Fully Vaccinated

          https://summit.news/2021/10/25/denmark-reports-highest-infection-rate-since-may-despite-75-of-population-being-vaccinated/

        2. Its not as if they made it up out of thin air:

          https://www.fox29.com/news/amish-community-in-lancaster-county-reaches-herd-immunity-from-covid-19-medical-center-says

          “LANCASTER, Pa. – According to a local medical center, the Amish community in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania has achieved what no other community has been able to do – herd immunity.

          Herd immunity has been quite a buzzword in the past, and especially since the start of the coronavirus pandemic.

          “Herd immunity refers to the number of people in a community or a country, for that matter, that have some protection against an infectious process,” explained Dr. Mike Cirigliano of the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania.

          Experts at a New Holland Borough Healthcare Center said around 90% of households dealt with at least one coronavirus case after churches reopened last year.

          They said those households are now immune to the virus.”

        3. Neither are WaPo, NYT, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC ect..ect..ect… but you rely on THEM. They all lied to us for years about the fake Russian Collusion. WaPo and NYT even won Pulitzers for their lies.

        4. Few would disagree that Alex Jones is a bonafide tine foil hat nut job.

          Yet he is right more often than NYT, WAPO CNN, MSNBC, …

          You don’t trust info wars ? I am OK with that.

          But if you do trust the same media that has told us that:

          Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 elect,
          That allegations regarding Hunter Biden’s influence peddling are debunked right wing conspiracy theories
          That dumps from Hunter Biden’s laptop(s) are Russian disinformation,
          That China was not doing Gain of Function research on Bat Corona Virus’s
          That Joe Rogan was taking horse dewormer

          And on and on and on

          If you still beleive those in the lame stream media that have lied over and over and over.

          You are far more guilible and stupid than someone who uses Info Wars as a Source.

          1. John, you may have the opinion that Alex Jones “is right more often than NYT, WAPO CNN, MSNBC,” but your opinion is not fact, and I’d wager might life savings that you have not tried to gather data about the relative frequency with which Jones, NYT, WAPO CNN, and MSNBC are right.

          2. John, January 6 suggests that Trump is trying to start a civil war; exactly what Putin would want.

    1. Covid-19 deaths driven by social contagion, planned parent/hood, denial and stigmatization of early treatments, effective, affordable therapeutic treatments, and misinformation about personal risk and protection choices. The vaccine(s) have been demonstrated to provide neither robust nor durable immunity. and as a non-sterilizing therapeutic treatment, gene function inhibitor (usurping cellular function), actually increase risk for disease progression and silent spread. The masks, while providing a viable legal indemnity, have a random effect to mitigate infection through droplet spread when following strict protocol, and increase infections in general use and with other transmission modes.

    2. It’s hard to see where religious exemptions fit into these sad statistics.

      This where people that only give lip service to faith reveal their posing. That you don’t understand God in no way means there is no God

  8. I have the freedom to kill you with my COVID.

    He mocks law abiding American citizens, yet with our southern border wide open, this is exactly the message he is sending to the illegal migrants flooding across the border. The Mexican cartels have also got a message for Americans, I have the freedom to kill you with my fentanyl.

    1. You & others likely already also heard the Gov reported last year there was around 100,000 drug OD deaths.

      We have at least 35 intel/law-enforcement outfits, I can’t help but think that dope profit is going where it shouldn’t.

      BTW: Has anyone seen Hunter lately?

  9. I would think at some point people will start to use the proper names when discussing these mRNA Gene Therapy Death Shots/Clot Shots & Covid 19. Both are pieces too Binary Biological Weapons.

    The mRNA crap is currently the biggest medical disaster for mankind ever. That is part of the reason the NIH last week for Fauci & his demonic possessed psychopath buddy to turn over all records within 5 days.

    Also since all of the mRNA shots given in the US are experimental operating under the emergence use act, EUA, that EUA is no long valid since there are viable safe treatments for C19.

    *******

    Science & Tech
    Joe Rogan Calls Don Lemon A ‘Dumb Motherf—er’ For Continuing ‘Horse De-wormer’ Smear
    by Steve Watson
    October 25th 2021, 7:28 am

    https://www.infowars.com/posts/joe-rogan-calls-don-lemon-a-dumb-motherf-er-for-continuing-horse-de-wormer-smear/

    1. “DOES THE VIRUS RECOGNIZE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS?”

      No.

      But apparently it recognizes exemptions for: Immigrants, postal workers, politicians, democrat party goers, dinner and wedding guests of the “sophisticated,” and protestors with the “right” cause.

              1. That comment is for the first anonymous who is trying to say we aren’t real people. I am real. I am PISSED. and I am ready to vote out the Socialist, divisive hateful progressives. I want them to run back under the rocks they came from.

      1. Sam, Come On Man….injecting facts and reason into a discussion with Lefties attending is so unfair of you!

        Out of Biden’s mouth….fire every First Responder who refuses to take the vaccine shots….but leave the Southern Border open and allow Two Million Illegals into the Country without even knowing who they are…where they went…and whether they had Covid, Covid Tests, or Covid Vaccinations…..and people question us for objecting to the coercion applied to American Citizens to get the vaccine?

        Come On Mam….just do as you are told…..and remember you may be a Hero today…but tomorrow you will be dog droppings when you are no longer a benefit to the Democrats.

        Just one question….why so many Medical Professionals refuse the vaccines?

        After all…they have been on the front line since this man-made Pandemic first issued from Wuhan’s NIH supported Lab Research.

        1. “. . . injecting facts and reason into a discussion with Lefties attending is so unfair of you!”

          I feel ashamed.

          My only solace is knowing that you’re in a lower rung of hell, for explicitly injection consistency into a debate with hypocrites. And for naming the issue (blind obedience), in a discussion with those who practice the dark art of evasion.

        2. It is absolutely necescary for rational minds to forewarn the left about the stupidity they prepare to engage in.
          If for no other reason that to be able to say “I warned you” when things go south.

          One thing should have been obvious regarding Covid from the start – the consequences of the policies to thwart the disease would be worse than the disease itself – regardless of whether they worked or not.

          If Biden wishes to fire 1/3 or even 1/20th of first responders – let him.

          One of the huge problems facing democrats is that they spend 2020 claiming that Trump’s failure to deal with covid was the end of the world. Now they have all the power – and they MUST do better than Trump at dealing with Covid – which they have already failed at.
          AND they must deliver a robust economy at the same time.

          The first of these is outside government control.
          The 2nd can not be done while responding stupidly to the first.

          It is criminal that the people have to suffer a faltering economy to greasp the idiocy and shallow thinking of the left.

      2. The virus will infect anyone it can. The virus doesn’t recognize any of the exemptions you list, for the same reason that it does not recognize religious exemptions: it cannot think. You knew that.

    2. Irrelevant.

      Frankly there should be no need for exemptions of any kind.

      Health mandates are unconstitutional.

      Freedom includes the right to make choices others do not agree with.
      It includes the right to make bad choices.

  10. I believe the real difference in the right( Republicans) and the left (Democrats) are this. The Left truly hate the Republicans. However, the Republicans just hate the democrats ways, attitudes, and stupidity about understanding. The Democrats will not except no for and answer. They go deep state or any other way to get their yes answer. The democrats feel they are right about everything. When the Republicans know they are wrong they will admit it.

    1. That’s not “the real difference in the right( Republicans) and the left (Democrats)”

      Some people on the left AND right do what you associate only with Democrats.
      Some people on the left AND right do what you associate only with Republicans.

      The differences between Democrats and Republicans have much more to do with policies that each group advocates or decries, works for or against, votes for or against.

  11. “Free speech is ‘killing people'” is the mantra of the woke mob, used against college professors whose speech is deemed “harmful” and “triggering” by the Gen Z dysfunctionals. Can we see the pattern here? All constitutional rights are under attack because the woke mob doesn’t believe in “white supremacist” law, the “white supremacist” Constitution, or any “white supremacist” civic institution. There is an insurrection happening in America, but it’s not the one the Democrats are complaining about.

  12. No, worker strikes aren’t insurrections, and parents complaining at a school board meeting aren’t domestic terrorists.

    But what was the exaggeration in the violent riot at the Capitol?

    Here are the charges that have been brought so far: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases

    And new information is still coming out.

    “Jan. 6 Protest Organizers Say They Participated in ‘Dozens’ of Planning Meetings With Members of Congress and White House Staff
    “Two sources are communicating with House investigators and detailed a stunning series of allegations to Rolling Stone, including a promise of a “blanket pardon” from the Oval Office”
    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/exclusive-jan-6-organizers-met-congress-white-house-1245289/

    “the pair both say the members who participated in these conversations or had top staffers join in included Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.), Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.), Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.), Rep. Madison Cawthorn (R-N.C.), Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.), and Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas),” also Marjorie Taylor Greene and WH Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. “Nick Dyer, who is Greene’s communications director, said she was solely involved in planning to object to the electoral certification on the House floor. Spokespeople for the other members of Congress, who the sources describe as involved in the planning for protests, did not respond to requests for comment. … While both sources say their communications with the House’s Jan. 6 committee thus far have been informal, they are expecting to testify publicly. … A representative for the committee declined to comment. … A representative for Trump did not respond to a request for comment. … A representative for Meadows did not respond to requests for comment.”

    I’m curious what facts will eventually come out of this. For example, did Trump or Giuliani or Mark Meadows speak with Gosar as the rioters were storming the Capitol and ask Gosar to delay the evacuation from the House floor?

    “How a Trump Prosecution for January 6 Would Work”
    emptywheel.net/2021/08/19/how-a-trump-prosecution-for-january-6-would-work/

    1. What is exagerated regarding Jan. 6 ? Really ?

      First – charges are not convictions.
      2nd convictions in DC do not need any basis in fact if the perputrator is republican.

      But actually dealing with reality.

      The large scale protest that occurred outside the capital was completely legitimate.

      There is absolutely no basis for any investigation of a legitimate protest – just as there is no basis to investigate BLM for the riots this summer – except where there is evidence that BLM participated in the riot rather than the protest.

      Next, Closing down the capital was a violation of first amendment rights to free speech, assembly, and petitioning the government.

      I am not aware of the capital ever being closed to the public while in session.

      It would have been trivial for capital police to assure the security of the capital while allowing the public including protesters access.

      The DOJ/FBI and Capital police found zero evidence of guns or similar weapons.
      The FBI found ZERO evidence of planning or conspiracy to do anything except protest.

      The objective of the protestors was NOT insurrection, or violence, it was to petition congress to delay certification and complete an real audit. Something that should have occured months earlier. Democrats ranted after the 2016 election, and Trump appointed a committee make recomendations regarding future elections. Democrats boycotted the committee and as a result no serious examination fo the problems with the 2016 election ever occurred.

      There is little basis for the Democrats Jan. 6th committee – which is with near certainty unconstitutional. The congresses investigative powers are limited to that related to legislation, and oversight of the executive and judicial branches.

      Congress does not have the power to conduct criminal investigations, nor the power to investigate private citizens.
      That is the domain of the Executive and is itself constrained constitutionally.

      Most of the egregious conduct occured at the west entrance where there is a credible allegation that the mayhem started when a black female office pummeled an older white women to the ground and started kicking her. This is purportedly the women who subsequently died.
      several of those charged with “assaulting” police claim they were acting in defense of the elderly women.

      So we may have two instances where the police murdered protestors.
      Todate there is not a single instance in which any protestor cause grevious bodily harm to a police officer.

      regardless, there is 14,000 hours of video that is not being shared regarding events on Jan. 6th.

      It should not surprise you that after months of LIES about what happened, that many people would like to see that video and do not trust the claims that you, democrats, the left, and the media make.

      If you actually want people to trust your “narratives” – STOP LYING.

    2. What part of organizing a protest is illegal ?

      The FBI/DOJ has pulled the phone records and emails of nearly everyone even tangentially involved and concluded there was no conspiracy, and no sedition and no insurrection and no weapons.

      The latter is incredibly important. It is much like the idiotic Collusion Delusion nonsense.

      So many of the left conspiracy theories require the actors to behave stupidly and against their own interests.

      It did not take more than a handful of brain cells to grasp that Russia was better off under Pres. Clinton than Pres. Trump.
      Trump’s policies on Europe and energy were directly at odds with Russian interests.
      World leaders who wish to remain that way do not screw their people over half baked claims of personal freindship.

      No sane person beleives Putin favored Trump. Start there and the rest falls apart.

      With respect to 1/6 – of the thousands of protestors and hundreds that went into the capital – NONE brought guns.

      If you plan an insurection – you bring guns. We are not talking about people without access to guns. We are not talking about people unfamiliar with guns.

      Yet, no guns at all. And the only shots fired were by capital police.

      No Guns means no insurrection, means no conspiracy.

      Obviously the protest was organized. There is nothing criminal about organizing a protest.
      Those on the left do it all the time.

      If you do not wish to be labeled Anonymous the Stupid – post under a name or pseudonym,
      and do not post ludicrously stupid claims.

      Something is not nefarious merely because people you do not like were involved.

  13. Do you have superstitious nonsense in your head, implanted by family from an early age or born of self-delusion and ignorance in adulthood? Yes? Then certain laws no longer apply, congratulations.

    1. “Superstitious nonsense”…like believing in God or a greater power? Or believing that there is great wisdom in ancient religious texts? You are deluding yourself, congratulations. You mock that which you do not understand.

      1. How many gods do you believe in?

        Why do you reject some of them? (For example, do you consider gods like Zeus to be “superstitious nonsense”?)

          1. First, the “reems of text documenting the travel and words of Christ” were written long after Christ died, not contemporaneously, so they “document” his travel and words only in the way that a game of telephone does: very imperfectly. Second, men travel and speak, and the travels and speech that are “documented” in the New Testament are those of a man. Nothing documents that Christ is a god rather than a mortal man; they only document that people believed Christ to be a god. We also have documents that people believed Zeus to be a god.

            1. Lies people tell themselves. No historian doubts Christ. That he is God can be debated. but not honestly

              Your idiocy claiming Christ and Zues are the same, is your current fable you are forced to believe to validated your world view.

              1. I didn’t claim that the man Christ didn’t exist. Learn to read better.

                And yes, of course one can honestly debate that Christ is a god.

                Again: Nothing documents that Christ is a god rather than a mortal man; they only document that people believed Christ to be a god.

                The majority of the world does not believe that Christ is a god.

                1. By what means would you document that Christ was god ?

                  If Someone on earth today claimed to be god – how would you prove or disprove that ?

                  DNA Tests ?

                  Oh, I am sorry – you answered that – we poll people.

                  So Christ would be god if the majority of people in the world beleived that ?

                  I would further note that theology asserts that Christ was fully human – and fully god.

                  1. “you answered that – we poll people.”

                    No, I didn’t say that the global beliefs are fact. I simply noted the fact that “The majority of the world does not believe that Christ is a god.” Just like it’s a fact that the majority of the world does not believe that the god of the Koran is a god, and the majority of the world does not believe that the gods of the Hindu scriptures are gods.

                    “By what means would you document that Christ was god ?”

                    By Christ appearing and being documented in real time carrying out acts that only gods can carry out.

                    Absoutely nothing was documented about Christ in real time. The texts about Christ were written long after Christ died, not contemporaneously, so they “document” his words and acts only in the way that a game of telephone does: very imperfectly.

        1. Mortal gods and goddesses, the Twilight faith (i.e. conflation of logical domains), the Pro-Choice (i.e. denies women and men’s dignity and agency, and reduces human life to a negotiable asset) religion, and liberal (i.e. divergent) ideology. Take a knee, beg, good boy, girl, whatever. That said, judge a philosophy by its principles. Diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgment) breeds adversity.

        2. I take a broad view of “religion” and “god” or “gods.” I do not take my own religion literally. I do not reject Zeus as “superstitious nonsense”…that’s what you do. For me I consider it all to be a complex subject matter worthy of respect.

  14. So now worker strikes are “insurrections”? Just like parents complaining at a school board meeting are “domestic terrorists”? And a riot at the Capitol? The Dems exaggerated that one also.

    1. My 10:13 AM comment was a reply to you, but got decoupled due to some tech glitch.

      In what way was the violent riot at the Capitol, attempting to prevent or delay the certification of the EC vote, an exaggeration?

      1. Anonymous the Gadfly, some of the rioters MIGHT have wanted to unseat the government, but the support and resources for making that happen never came close to materializing. Most of the rioters were simply rioting out of rage and frustration over what they believed was a stolen election. In that respect, claims of insurrection are exaggerated and deliberately so.

        The real point of claiming January 6th was an “insurrection” is to brainwash our military personnel into believing that anyone who forcefully objects to the Democrats is trying to overthrow the government. In the event the Democrats provoke a constitutional crisis, they need a brainwashed military or they might get their strategic asses kicked–and they know all that. Hence, everything is framed as “white supremacy,” terrorism,” and “insurrection” now.

        The prosecutions of the “insurrectionists” have come up short on convictions for treason, etc. That’s your Justice Department that is failing to get convictions for high crimes–not Trump’s.

        1. “The real point of claiming January 6th was an “insurrection” is to brainwash our military personnel into believing that anyone who forcefully objects to the Democrats is trying to overthrow the government.”

          BS.

          The Democrats aren’t the ones who tried to overthrow the government. Trump is the one who attempted to get Pence to act unconstitutionally and throw the election to Trump in a self-coup, extending Trump’s time in office beyond what Trump was legally elected to.

          Here’s some of what Trump said publicly in his attempt to pressure Pence into acting illegally (and we don’t know yet what he said in private, and may never learn that):

          “Our Vice President has several options under the U.S. Constitution. He can decertify the results or send them back to the states for change and certification. He can also decertify the illegal and corrupt results and send them to the House of Representatives for the one vote for one state tabulation.”
          “I hope Mike Pence comes through for us, I have to tell you. I hope that our great Vice President comes through for us. If he doesn’t come through, of course, I won’t like him very much.”
          “The Vice President has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors.”
          If Vice President @Mike_Pence comes through for us, we will win the Presidency. Many States want to decertify the mistake they made in certifying incorrect & even fraudulent numbers in a process NOT approved by their State Legislatures (which it must be). Mike can send it back!
          “States want to correct their votes, which they now know were based on irregularities and fraud, plus corrupt process never received legislative approval. All Mike Pence has to do is send them back to the States, AND WE WIN. Do it Mike, this is a time for extreme courage!
          “I hope Mike is going to do the right thing. I hope so. I hope so. Because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election. All he has to do, all this is, this is from the number one, or certainly one of the top, Constitutional lawyers in our country. He has the absolute right to do it. … All Vice President Pence has to do is send it back to the states to recertify and we become president. … I just spoke to Mike, I said: ‘Mike, that doesn’t take courage. What takes courage is to do nothing.’ … Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us, and if he doesn’t, that will be a, a sad day for our country. … They [Pennsylvania] want to recertify their votes. They want to recertify. But the only way that can happen is if Mike Pence agrees to send it back. Mike Pence has to agree to send it back.”

          It is a total lie that Pence himself could “decertify the results or send them back to the states for change and certification. … [or] send them to the House of Representatives for the one vote for one state tabulation.” Trump even brought in a lawyer, John Eastman, to help Trump convince Pence to do this. Eastman is now being investigated by the CA Bar.

          Second, Trump spent months lying to his supporters claiming that the election had been stolen and then invited his supporters to a rally in DC based on that Big Lie, choosing the date, time, and location of his Jan. 6 rally to coincide with Congress certifying the Electoral College vote. Trump and his allies repeatedly announced the date to his supporters ahead of time and asked them to show up to the rally. At the rally, Trump and his invited speakers riled the attendees up, and then he encouraged them to go to the Capitol in the midst of the certification and lied to them that he’d go with them. The insurrectionists broke into the Capitol, fought with law enforcement and injured many officers, forced the Secret Service to take Pence away from the Senate to a secure location and forced all members of Congress to stay away from the floor of the House and Senate. They succeeded in delaying the certification of the EC vote by Congress.

          As someone else said, “far-right groups planned to breach the Capitol during this planned protest. The consequences of that are foreseeable, but it’s somehow not an attempt to overthrow the government because they didn’t have a clear plan for what came next. It was a putsch! This is what a putsch IS! Conspirators rally a mob in an attempt to overthrow a government! The mob itself is not, like, part of the advance planning.”

          Trump tried to stay in power despite having lost the election. Just because he failed doesn’t mean he isn’t a danger. If bank robbers try and fail to rob a bank, they still broke the law. Trump continues to spread the Big Lie and the GOP continues to defer to him. He is still a danger to our democracy.

          As for your claim “The prosecutions of the “insurrectionists” have come up short on convictions for treason, etc.,” most of them — and especially the most serious cases — haven’t reached the trial phase yet, and you have zero way of knowing which ones will be convicted for the crimes they’re charged with. They haven’t been charged with treason, but of course neither were the people Trump accused of treason. If a criminal charge of “treason” is your sole standard and anything less simply doesn’t matter to you, then you should review your standards for what matters in keeping our democracy intact. They’re also still in the midst of investigating what occurred in the lead-up to Jan. 6 and on that day. As a simple example, we only learned of Eastman’s memo a few weeks ago. Who knows what Meadows has said in non-public testimony. Will Bannon be prosecuted for criminal contempt? …

          1. Technically, Trump could ask Pence to do it, but Pence made the right call in not doing so.

            You, Anon, need to calm down.

            1. Yes, technically the President can ask the VP to act illegally. But it’s contrary to his oath of office, and of course would be illegal for the VP to do as requested.

              “I stand by my claim that your Democrats want to subvert and politicize the military.”

              I believe Trump and other Republicans want to subvert and politicize the military.

              “treason is the charge for insurrection.”

              It’s one of them. It’s not the only one. Others include “rebellion or insurrection” and “seditious conspiracy.” We’ll have to wait and see whether the DOJ charges anyone with either of those.

              I’m calm, thanks for your concern though.

              1. “It’s one of them. It’s not the only one. Others include “rebellion or insurrection” and “seditious conspiracy.” We’ll have to wait and see whether the DOJ charges anyone with either of those.”

                They will charge someone with it. Both sides have a few seditionists. There’s always a few seditionists, but there’s a lot more than a few communists, unfortunately.

          2. Finally, treason is the charge for insurrection. The actual charges are way down the list from treason. Calm down.

  15. The real lesson is that the Lefties are more Trump-like than Trump.

    Lefties will say (in their childish and illogical way): “Trump started it.”.

    But that ignores the damage that they do to the country.

    Lefties are all about power and have few principles.

  16. Fear and Intimidation are the methods of the Biden Administration. The fact this “Presidential” Administration openly allows unvaccinated illegal immigrants by the tens of thousands to come streaming across our border makes his words look like words composed by others which are presented to Joe Biden on a teleprompter… Nothing more.

    1. Fear and Intimidation are the methods of the Biden Administration.

      This so true.
      Why are businesses falling in line with mandatory shots (that do not prevent the contraction, and do not prevent the spread of the virus). The threat of OSHA fines. But 2 months later, not OSHA regulations. Maybe because, like rent forgiveness, only congress can can write such a law. But we do know OSHA has not written any guidelines.

      Fear and intimidation are doing all the work. Just like all the tyranical govts across the globe.

        1. Wrong again, no rules are in effect. Parse the language into meaningless babble as you always do, but my statement, and lefts SOP is still the same. Intimitation.

          1. Is “Intimitation” when you try to get intimate with someone?

            Work on your reading. “OSHA has not written any guidelines” =/= “no rules are in effect”

      1. Why are businesses falling in line with mandatory shots

        A better question is why are all these businesses going woke? If you start digging into ESG’s and the corporations that have signed onto this new reporting framework, it’s easy to see why.

        The Stakeholder Capitalism Metrics promote alignment among existing ESG frameworks and create a set of data points that can be compared between companies, regardless of their industry or region. The metrics include non-financial disclosures centred around four pillars: people, planet, prosperity and principles of governance and include measurements around greenhouse gas emissions, pay equality and board diversity, among others.
        https://www.weforum.org/our-impact/stakeholder-capitalism-50-companies-adopt-esg-reporting-metrics/

        Diversity in any portfolio can reduce risk, but in the impact context, it can optimize reward. Many investors are taking notice. In June 2020, the Global Impact Investing Network (GIIN) estimated that this sector had ballooned to $715 billion, up more than 40% from 2019.

        Perhaps the most important plank of this venture platform is a commitment to investing in women and underrepresented founders, who historically lack access to capital. To confront these unprecedented challenges, “We need enlightened business leadership now more than ever,” says Donnel Baird, CEO of BlocPower, a Salesforce Ventures portfolio company.

        Capitalism as it is currently designed doesn’t work for everyone. We need a more equal, fair and sustainable way of doing business that values purpose alongside profit. If we remain committed to reform and innovation, impact has the opportunity to prove that the challenges we face can accelerate progress, not inhibit it. This is our promise — a promise we call on others to make alongside us.
        https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/01/3-ways-global-leaders-can-prioritize-esg-impact-salesforce

        1. Diversity, inequity, and exclusion (DIE), including racism, sexism, and other class-based bigotry under the Pro-Choice religion that denies men and women’s dignity and agency, and reduces human life to a negotiable asset.

    2. And then Biden loads them, unvaccinated, on crowded aircraft with nothing but useless masks for protection and flies them all over the country in the dead of night. The ultimate goal is to use them to cancel out our votes–and then our freedoms. He does all this in spite of the explicit objection of the great majority of the American people.

      We are ruled by tyrants and con men.

    1. Absolutely! Alternative medical treatments are available and proven effective through rigorous testing in multiple countries. In contrast, many countries are reporting that the vaccinated are appearing to be more liable to become infected with mutated versions of the coronavirus. Early treatment with these various safe, long tested and used and proven drugs has proven effective. Natural immunity following a bout of CoViD-19 has also been shown to be longer lasting and more flexibly effective against mutant versions of the disease than the current vaxxxines are, and without such “side effects” as myocardia, internal bleeding, death etc.
      I am fortunate to be living in a country where the government suggested and enabled access to the vaxxxines, but did not force the matter, nor penalize those who choose not to be jabbed. Here, the number of cases has decreased significantly, and life is gradually returning to normal.

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