Last night, Department of Justice filed in opposition to the appointment of a Special Master in Florida. It used the filing to add new facts and allegations to the public record, including the statement that “obstructive conduct occurred” at Mar-a-Lago by concealing or moving documents. The Department makes many of the same claims that it used to opposed the release of a redacted affidavit, claims shown to have been misleading and exaggerated after the magistrate ordered the release. Notably, this filing contained details that were likely redacted in the affidavit but just released on the public record.
In the most direct challenge to the former President’s public claims, the Justice Department claimed that he and his staff had failed to turn over classified material and that the Department had no choice but to search areas outside of the storage room. Indeed, it says that it found three classified documents in Trump’s desk without indicating the level of classification or subject matter.
It also said that the Trump staff barred the FBI from looking at documents in the storage room after turning over classified information to them.
“As the former President’s filing indicates, the FBI agents and DOJ attorney were permitted to visit the storage room. See D.E. 1 at 5-6. Critically, however, the former President’s counsel explicitly prohibited government personnel from opening or looking inside any of the boxes that remained in the storage room, giving no opportunity for the government to confirm that no documents with classification markings remained.”
The filing also adds new disclosures on past claims of declassification by Trump. It states that “[w]hen producing the Fifteen Boxes, the former President never asserted executive privilege over any of the documents nor claimed that any of the documents in the boxes containing classification markings had been declassified.” That was in January 2022. It then alleges that, in the June 3, 2022 meeting, “neither counsel nor the custodian asserted that the former President had declassified the documents or asserted any claim of executive privilege.” It is not clear if or when the Trump team made the declassification claim.
The filing also includes this notable allegation:
“The government also developed evidence that government records were likely concealed and removed from the Storage Room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation.”
The Justice Department told the court that it was vindicated in its suspicions and that
“the FBI, in a matter of hours, recovered twice as many documents with classification markings as the ‘diligent search’ that the former President’s counsel and other representatives had weeks to perform calls into serious question the representations made in the June 3 certification and casts doubt on the extent of cooperation in this matter.”
It is not clear from the filing if the FBI has evidence of intentional acts of concealment as opposed to negligence in keeping track of such material. However, stating that the FBI believes that “obstructive conduct occurred” is very serious, particularly if the FBI also believes that this conduct was knowingly or intentional obstructive.
The main point of the filing was to address the court’s indication that it wanted a special master appointment. I have supported such an appointment, even at this late date. Indeed, I felt that this was one of the four failures of Attorney General Merrick Garland in not taking proactive steps to assure that public that this was not a pretextual raid to collect sensitive material for other investigative purposes. It would still have considerable value in the case.
The special master could divide these documents into groups of classified material, unclassified but defense information, and unclassified material outside of the scope of the alleged crimes. The last category would then be returned. That accounting could also offer basic descriptive information on the material without revealing their precise content or titles. The special master could describe material as related to national defense or nuclear weapons (as was previously leaked government sources). The government has already leaked that there was nuclear weapons material being sought. Confirming such general details can be done without giving details on the specific information or even titles for the documents to protect national security. In national security cases, including cases where I have served as counsel, such indexes and summaries are common.
Notably, this filing includes the picture which is being widely distributed. It can, however, leave an obviously misleading impression.
The picture could be seen by many that secret documents were strewn over the floor when this appears the method used by the FBI to isolate classified documents. However, putting that initial concern aside, there is a question as to the purpose of the attachment. It seems entirely superfluous in releasing this one picture. The picture is Attachment F and the textual reference on page 13 simply says
“Certain of the documents had colored cover sheets indicating their classification status. See, e.g., Attachment F (redacted FBI photograph of certain documents and classified cover sheets recovered from a container in the “45 office”).”
It is curious that the DOJ would release this particular picture which suggests classified material laying around on the floor. The point is to state a fact that hardly needs an optical confirmation: the possession of documents with classified cover sheets. Indeed, the top of roughly half of the documents are redacted in the photos. The government could simply affirmatively state the fact of the covered pages and would not likely be challenged on that point without the inclusion of this one photo.
For critics, the photo may appear another effort (with prior leaks) to help frame the public optics and discussion. Clearly the court did not need the visual aid of a picture of documents with covers. It seems clearly intended for public consumption.
It is possible that the FBI was showing that these files with intermixed in that box with the framed Time covers. If so, that is an appropriate combination if it is being used not to show the covers as cited in the text but the commingling of documents raised in other parts of the filing. We simply do not know.
The arguments raised by the Justice Department are not just familiar but transparently weak. The government argues that Trump lacks standing because the records belong to the United States, not him. However, that is the point. The court is trying to determine who has a right to these documents. The Justice Department itself recognizes that it may have gathered some attorney-client privileged documents in this ridiculously broad search. It allowed the seizure of any box containing any document with any classification of any kind — and all boxes stored with that box. It also allowed the seizure of any writing from Trump’s presidency.
Moreover, the court itself has ample authority to appoint a special master to help sort through such material.
The government and its allies, in my view, misconstrue the impact of Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 41(g), which provides
” A person aggrieved by an unlawful search and seizure of property or by the deprivation of property may move for the property’s return. The motion must be filed in the district where the property was seized. The court must receive evidence on any factual issue necessary to decide the motion. If it grants the motion, the court must return the property to the movant, but may impose reasonable conditions to protect access to the property and its use in later proceedings.”
However, the Special Master is being used by the Court to determine the status, classification, and categorization of the documents. The Court has the inherent authority to seek such assistance in an independent review of material. Special masters are fairly common helping courts establish the record for ruling on the merits of motions. It may turn out that most or all of this material is properly held by the government, but a Special Master can help establish the record for that decision, including the status of material acknowledged as potential attorney-client material.
The Justice Department also makes the same type of arguments used to oppose the release of a single line of the affidavit in redacted form. It claims that both its investigation and national security would be harmed. That is even less compelling here. A special master would be reviewing documents in a secure facility and would presumably have a clearance. Many of us who have handled national security cases have been cleared for TS/SCI material.
Notably, however, the Justice Department states in a footnote that “the government is prepared, given the extraordinary circumstances, to unseal the more detailed receipt and provide it immediately to plaintiff.” That sounds like (as with the redacted affidavit) that they clearly can release more information, particularly to avoid a Special Master appointment.
The use of such arguments after the release of the redacted affidavit only undermines the arguments further. The Justice Department insisted that the court should not release a single line of the affidavit and that any substantive disclosure would unleash a parade of horribles, from damaging national security to sacrificing witnesses.
For those of us who have litigated cases against the Justice Department, it was an all-too-familiar claim by a department notorious for over-classification and over-redaction arguments. For a week, media pundits mouthed the same exaggerated claims and challenged those of us who argued that it was clearly possible to release a redacted affidavit; liberals suddenly shuddered at the thought of doubting the Justice Department. Then the government produced a redacted version that caused no such harms while confirming important facts in the case.
Notably, some of the details in this filing on meetings before the August raid may have been part of the affidavit but redacted.
The Department also claims that it does not need to return personal material to the former president because the evidence of “commingling personal effects with documents bearing classification markings is relevant evidence of the statutory offenses under investigation.” That is again transparency weak. The government has recorded or documented such intermingling and make a record for any trial without refusing to return material that is neither classified nor otherwise subject to government confiscation or removal.
The Department also makes other incomplete or dubious arguments. For example, it asserts that no executive privilege claim can be made by a former president: “The former President cites no case—and the government is aware of none—in which executive privilege has been successfully invoked to prohibit the sharing of documents within the Executive Branch.” That is because this issue has not been fully litigated. It has been a long debate over the ability of former presidents to claim privilege. Indeed, under the Presidential Records Act, such assertions are honored over documents in its possession.
What is clear from this filing is that Merrick Garland will not change his refusal to seek modest steps to assure the public that this investigation is neither pretextual nor political. Instead, he is “all in” on these sweeping and untenable claims of the need for absolute control and secrecy. What is missing is real leadership to address the deep concerns of millions of Americans over the past records of the Department and its current investigation. Instead, Garland has required courts to force the release of a redacted affidavit and the possible appointment of a special master.
What is clear is that Garland’s “trust us” mantra has done little to assuage concerns. Indeed, that seems almost comical to many people, given the Crossfire Hurricane debacle and the fact that this investigation is being handled by the same section.
The court should reject the arguments against the appointment of a special master and allow for an independent review of these documents.
Here is the filing: doj-response-to-trump-special-master
This column was edited to add the language from Rule 41 and the basis for such motions.
Turley: borrowing a line from Joseph Welch from the McCarthy hearings: “have you no decency”? You have the outrageous gall to claim that the government’s position is “misleading and exaggerated”, when that perfectly describes your unwarranted attack on the DOJ and FBI and your utter ignoring of the BIG PICTURE: A malignant narcissist who lost an election but isn’t man enough to admit it, STOLE GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS, LIED ABOUT RETURNING ALL OF THEM, AND ACTIVELY CONCEALED additional NARA documents by moving them around. You love to tap-dance with the truth, Turley–to wit: 1. you say that the government’s claims in the latest filing are the same as those that were redacted in the Affidavit. Since you’ve never seen the unredacted affidavit, you don’t know this–you’re just making that up; 2. you say it’s not clear that there were intentional acts of concealment versus negligence. Uh, Turley, they wouldn’t let the government look into the contents of any boxes other than the ones they selected, and, as it turns out, there were more NARA documents that were retained than were voluntarily returned. How can such conduct be anything other than intentional?; 3. You once again repeat the lie that the leaks came from “the government”–without any proof whatsoever. This is just a Fox media lie calculated to stir up the disciples.; 4. You say that the photo included in the filing is “obviously misleading” because it implies that TS/SCI documents were strewn about on the floor of Trump’s office. Uh, Turley, did the DOJ claim this is how they found them? No, it didn’t, and you know that, too. The photo does show the clear TS/SCI designations, but you claim that the government could have just said they found TS/SCI documents, and that would be enough without displaying the photo. No, Turley, it wouldn’t be enough when there are mouthpieces like you paid to distort the facts.
Your assignment was to try to water down the blockbuster evidence the DOJ has against Trump. Don’t you see, Turley, that this is a waste of time? The true disciples will NEVER turn against Trump no matter what he does–he can lie, start an insurrection to try to prevent the rightful election winner from taking office, steal government TS/SCI documents and lie about returning them, or even sell them or give them to Putin, and the disciples will keep the faith. Fortunately, there are the rest of us who see through the partisan and deceitful drivel you are paid to churn out who see Trump for the phony blowhard liar and cheater he has always been. Thankfully, “the rest of us” is the majority of Americans who never voted for Trump in 2016, 2020 and would never do so again.
Did you get your fifth covid booster shot yet?
I would suggest that the appointment of a Special Master (SM) at this point is almost futile/moot.
I believe I read somewhere that “discussions” with DOJ/FBI about an overseer/filter team/special master had been ongoing.
This appears to have been a bad tactic by Trump’s counsel, as it only served to warn DOJ that a motion could/would be pending. An emergency motion should have been filed IMMEDIATELY following the seizure. Three weeks have passed.
Meanwhile, DOJ thus knew that it needed to expedite review of everything, so that even if a special master later ruled that certain documents/material needed to be returned, DOJ would already have gotten information/contacts/communications/tactics, etc. contained therein.
The only benefit of a SM at this point would be to prevent the use of such documents/information in preparing a case against Trump. But the trove of information and potential leads contained therein might have been gold for DOJ to later “discover.'”
The affidavit specified:
” If the Privilege Review Team determines that documents are potentially attorney-client privileged or merit further consideration in that regard, a Privilege Review Team attorney may do any of the following: (a) apply ex parte to the court for a determination whether or not the documents contain attorney-client privileged material; (b) defer seeking court intervention and continue to keep the documents inaccessible to law-enforcement personnel assigned to the investigation; or (c) disclose the documents to the potential privilege holder, request the privilege holder to state whether the potential privilege holder asserts attorney-client privilege as to any documents, including requesting a particularized privilege log, and seek a ruling from the court regarding any attorney-client privilege claims as to which the Privilege Review Team and the privilege-holder cannot reach agreement.” Judge Reinhart was aware of this plan before he ever signed the search warrant.
Of course Trump worked to get it into another judge’s court. Has she even read the entire (unredacted) affidavit?
Anonymous: The “Privilege Review Team” that you mention was part of, and assigned by, the DOJ. I would suggest you look it up.
I’m already aware of that and don’t need to look it up.
I was simply trying to help you figure out where you might have read something about an existing filter team.
If my attempt to help you wasn’t helpful in fact, OK.
Anonymous: The “Privilege Review Team” you mention was part and parcel of, and assigned by, the DOJ.
The Trump-Biden DOJ exchange reflects the same dynamics in our current public square. No one is listening. No one cares to back off. Sadly I believe it is all about power in most circles in America, e.g. who has the bigger stick.
Biden is scheduled to go on TV later today. Although I have never voted Republican and have deep disdain for Trump, Biden is continuing the Hillary “vast right wing conspiracy”, “basket of deplorables” shtick aka divide and conquer. This is what gave rise to Trump
Biden’s handlers are escalating and raising the temperature. It is only a matter of time when it all blows. It should not be like this but here we are. Such a disappointment in America’s political leaders
“Of course Trump worked to get it into another judge’s court.”
Gee, I wonder why.
Could it be because that same judge recused himself in a prior Trump case? Because he approved a “general warrant?” Because he publicly expressed his hatred of Trump?
All the ‘Trump, Trump, Trump!’ serves as distraction from what the O’Biden regime is doing and how harmful and unpopular its entire agenda actually is. Inflation. Government schools woke indoctrination. Energy. Taxes. World Economic Forum. Collapsing our economy. Move toward Central Banking Digital Currency. Ukraine war corruption scam. Climate bullsh*t. Covid Vax Injuries/Harm to our population. IRS weaponization. DOJ weaponization. FBI secret police weaponization. Election integrity lies. And the Fake News dutifully spreads Biden regime lies and propaganda to the public.
The entirety of the U.S. government and the corporate media is corrupt to the core from top to bottom.
The Democrats are the masters of distraction. They create the Russia Hoax to distract from Hillary’s secret server and now they create the Mar-A-Largo raid to distract your attention from Hunter Biden being paid millions of dollars by China. Biden’s suckerfish hold fast sucking up the algae (government jobs) on the side of the fish tank. This is always how they operate. As for you, will you be fooled again?
ThinkItThrough,
Oh, are they going to need a distraction, big time.
Not talking about the mid-terms either.
Watch the food and energy markets.
Energy prices in the UK and EU are at all time highs and expected to go higher. Many small businesses are going under. In Germany many large businesses are stopping production altogether. More fertilizer companies are shuttering as the price of natural gas is high. Reading more aluminum plants are shutting down.
More and more economists are assessing the energy shock will not be contained to the UK and EU. Note, the EU is pulling so much LNG, third world markets are suffering blackouts. This is going to be a global energy shock.
US Energy Secretary sent a letter, which was not released publicly, asking seven major refiners not to export fuel products. The US energy supplies are near decade lows.
Then there is food.
Crop insurance companies in the US are expecting anywhere from a 40-80% in crop losses this year. Some corn growers in the Mid-West and the plains states are seeing double digit smaller crops this year. I read some corn farmers made their whole crop into silage, as there was not a single ear of corn on the stalks. In Kansas, wheat farmers are reporting ankle high hay. Usually by July it is nearly knee high and green. US ranchers are selling off their herds as either they cannot feed them due to drought, or there is no water. Short term lower meat prices. But then expect to see a jump in meat prices for the next two years at least.
So, yes they are going to need a distraction. Perhaps even a “Don’t Look Up,” one.
The DOJ has not made a convincing argument that the nation’s security is imperiled with the appointment of a special master. Neither has it successfully argued that its “investigation” would be compromised. What the DOJ has done is to remind us of how often in our past it has infringed on constitutional rights and liberties under the guise of national security.
https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/new-national-security-programs-same-old-dangerous-patterns
Nothing of what the DOJ is arguing supports their opposition to a special master. I don’t care if the FBI claimed to have found Kim Jong Un hiding in the vault with a camera, a special master would only bolster the credibility of the DOJ’s case. Well that assumes the special master doesn’t gut it first. Which makes their opposition so suspect. If their case were as airtight as they would want anyone to believe, there would be no reason to oppose a special master and certainly no need to release any evidence before their case is presented to a grand jury. Unless of course they know a special master would would end up deconstructing their narrative and leave them once again hoping a trial by public opinion will work.
Also, how are we supposed to trust that any of the “evidence” collected by the FBI wasn’t brought into MAL, given the fact they prevented any of Trump’s people from being present during the raid? It would not surprise me in the least that the June visit by the FBI was to scout the property for the surveillance coverage. It’s interesting they told Trump’s people to turn the cameras off, but why didn’t the search warrant not include seizing surveillance footage?
I fail to see why the DOJ would continue to object to the appointment of a special master. This must surely be just for show. At the end of the day, I’m certain that the DOJ and the anti-Trump-pedo-attorney Magistrate will be able to easily agree to the appointment of a special master who is also on board with their get-Trump-on-any-bogus-pretext bandwagon.
of course obstructive justice occured only it was by the DOJ because they are corrupt and are targeting Trump regardless
At the very minimum, voters of both parties probably agree that we need “future reforms” to fix these broken systems. Nobody wins with business as usual – regardless of political party future reforms should be priority #1.
Reform these broken systems so a president with a dictator mentality (Nixon/Bush’s “Unitary Executive Theory”) has no way to abuse the system like this in the future.
Congress could start this process by finishing the “9/11 Commission” reforms. Congress still hasn’t implemented all of those recommendations which even many Trump voters would support. If we can’t enact the 9/11 Commission reforms (to keep Americans safe) why are we wasting taxpayer resources on this?
If Trump dodges criminal indictment, then Biden we should also pardon (and make whole) lesser violators like Edward Snowden of the NSA, John Kiriakou of the CIA, Thomas Drake of the NSA, Chelsea Manning of the DOD and other Americans far more loyal to their Oath of Office than Trump was.
The Framers of the U.S. Constitution made clear that presidents’ authority was listed second under Article II. Congress (representing the voters) was listed first under Article I.
Presidents were only granted enough authority to correct the weaknesses of the “Articles of Confederation”, America was never supposed to have strongman dictators. Congress, not presidents, control the rules governing secrets, classifications and rules governing the military. Trump had no such authority to steal those documents.
Trump had no such authority to steal those documents.
***********
Go tell that to Obama appointed Fed Judge Jackson’s opinion on what the USC means addressing your point.
Remember, she the one the ph’d Roger Stone over & I think Manaport.
The Unitary executive is not a theory it is a constitutional reality.
You would have to significantly amend the constitution to change that.
The very first line of Article II – the executive vests all executive power in the president.
The problem is not the unitary executive theory, it is that the people, and the courts keep unconstitutionally expanding the power of the executive.
One easy example is that we have immigration laws. These were established by congress and enacted constitutionally.
The administration must be directed by the courts to follow the immigration law that currently exists.
Not the made up nonsense we have now.
I personally have problems with current immigration law. I would like to see more immigration. But my personal preferences do not trump the law that exists. I am free to work to change the law. I am not free to ignore it – even if I am president.
Anyone who thinks Turley and his ilk will be satisfied if a Special Master reviews the documents as opposed to the FBI Taint Team has not been paying attention for the last 6 years or so.
No, any Special Master who rules against Trump will be doxxed, vilified, there will be photoshopped documents on the internet defaming the Special Master. MAGA nation will be issuing death threats against the Special Master and his or her family.
I mean, this is what Trump and MAGA nation has already done to the current judge and magistrate involved in the case who issued the search warrant.
.One asks: has the radical swamp finally figured out a way to get the ‘evidence’ it could never find during the last 6 years of framing Trump…….just bring some in those bulky vests, scatter on the floor.. or in his desk.. all while he is not there to watch……Trump did not have to steal or hide anything. As for what ended up at his place, the GSA packed & moved all those boxes…(another opening for planting…) . One asks: is the raid story simply a continuation of all the lies from the fake Steele Dossier-Russia Collusion-Alfa Bank-Mueller Investigation-Unfounded Impeachments-Kangaroo Court Hearings… He gave them the papers they wanted the first time and no doubt would have let them have the whole storage locker if they had asked… so why show up when he’s not home with 3 dozen padded agents if not to finally ‘produce’ ‘evidence’ to keep him from running again, with the added benefit of keeping Hunter’s family protected… One asks.
The GSA did not pack it all.
“Trump did not have to steal or hide anything.”
But he did it anyway.
..just like he colluded with the Russians… finally we saw it was ALL LIES….. IF he wanted to keep copies of anything, could have all been handled before he left… again, he did not have to steal anything. but anti-Trumpers like yourself are driven to deal in Lies to stop him. Pathetic.
This filing makes clear that through its investigation the DOJ/FBI developed information suggesting that the Trump counsel certifications made on June 3 were false in that documents marked classified remained at MAL and that not all documents were in the storeroom. Assuming the validity of this information, the question then becomes whether there was no alternative to the search and whether the warrant was narrowly drawn. These are the two conditions for this unprecedented action that Garland specified in his public statement.
There were at least three alternative means of pursuing the documents:
1. A higher level approach directly to Trump indicating the concerns and proposing a cooperative joint review (this approach could have been made through an intermediary Trump appears to respect, for example Pompeo);
2. A court order to enforce the subpoena; and
3. A new subpoena.
The warrant was not narrowly drawn to refer only to documents marked classified, which is the stated concern.
In the end this was a judgment call by Garland. I think he made the wrong judgment. I come to this view because I am very doubtful that the retention of the documents at MAL posed a significant threat to national security, especially given the delay in acting strongly to recover them. The fact that the warrant also allowed for any and all documents from the Trump presidency to be seized is further reason for skepticism.
Daniel,
Since it was learned that Trump still had classified documents AFTER assertions that they gave all the documents back and furthermore learning that there were highly sensitive defense department documents that shouldn’t be there the DOJ didn’t have much of a choice to issue another subpoena or give him another “chance” after they gave him plenty of chances to comply.
Trump lied to the DOJ and actively obstructed the retrieval of those documents. That was plenty of reason to issue such a broad warrant. Trump showed a willingness to conceal documents and lie to the FBI. That’s why they needed to make sure they had everything. Because Trump didn’t give them any reason to be trustworthy they had to be as broad as legally possible.
Daniel,
“documents marked classified remained at MAL and that not all documents were in the storeroom.”
They weren’t just in the storeroom. Over 2 dozen were also found in Trump’s office, intermingled with other things.
“the question then becomes whether there was no alternative to the search and whether the warrant was narrowly drawn”
They shouldn’t have been taken in the first place.
They should have ALL been returned when first requested.
The remainder ALL should have been returned in response to the subpoena.
Bobb should not have have stated that everything had been returned when that was false.
They should not have been intermingled with non-classified docs.
The classified cover should not have been removed from some of them.
They should have been stored in a properly secured room, which (per the DOJ) has not existed at MaL since the end of Trump’s presidency.
His lawyers refused to let the FBI examine the boxes in June.
Trump’s choices here are inexcusable.
“The warrant was not narrowly drawn to refer only to documents marked classified, which is the stated concern.”
Actually, the stated concerns in the warrant include NDI and obstruction.
“especially given the delay in acting strongly to recover them.”
NARA, which didn’t get the first tranch until January, didn’t turn over the classified docs to the FBI for review until May. Then the DOJ got a warrant. Then they visited. It’s not as though getting a search warrant is something they took lightly.
“The fact that the warrant also allowed for any and all documents from the Trump presidency to be seized is further reason for skepticism.”
Why? He’s not supposed to be in possession of docs from his presidency, per the PRA.
“They weren’t just in the storeroom. Over 2 dozen were also found in Trump’s office, intermingled with other things.“
You don’t know. Was Trump’s lawyers watching? No. They weren’t permitted inside during the search. That means we have to trust the FBI. Did we learn from FISA that the FBI was dishonest? Yes. Was Clinsmith adequately punished to deter others from lying? No.Therefore the FBI needs proof of what they say. They don’t have it. That makes your statement a lie.
“They should have ALL been returned when first requested.”
You haven’t proven that the documents had no right to be at Mal. Therefore you are acting foolish in telling us what should have happened with the documents.
Apparently I’m living in your head rent free.
“They should not have been intermingled with non-classified docs.”
Tell us what law tells us that? You can’t show us how what you said is true. You are making things up like you have with each and every sentence you write. If you are correct on anything, it is an accident. A broken clock hits twelve twice a day.
“His lawyers refused to let the FBI examine the boxes in June.“
Not true and trump invited them back.
I think the court should appoint Alan Dershowitz as the Special Master.
Dershowitz has shown the world repeatedly that he is 100% reliable and completely independent of political influence and will do the job accurately, within the law, and with absolute integrity no matter who he’s dealing with.
+∞
Does Dershowitz have a security clearance high enough to look thru the entirety of the documents? If he doesn’t then that would be a problem.
And you wouldn’t give Dershowitz a security clearance?
We need to question if the people at the FBI involved in all things Trump should have security clearance. Many were involved in FISA , Steel Dossier and other things that demonstrate a lack of adherence to standard impartiality that law enforcement should have.
In part that involves the rule of law, but I don’t think you can understand what that is.
Why do you assume that he can get TS/SCI clearance, and why should the entire thing be slowed for that to occur rather than using someone who already has TS/SCI clearance?
Also, not everyone share’s your confidence in Dershowitz.
I didn’t expect everyone to share my confidence in Professor Dershowitz. He certainly has a lifetime of experience and a great background to fill the position. Again I do not expect you to agree with me. And I really don’t care!
“Why do you assume that he can get TS/SCI clearance”
With all the lying at the FBI, why should anyone at the FBI get that type of clearance?
Since Biden is President and he used his son wrongfully so which affected national security, why should Biden be trusted with any clearance?
What part of having secret and top secret documents at his mar a logo do you not get? The FBI found documents at mar a logo that in June trump and his lawyers said they did not have. Is there any part of this that is not true?
Oh yea, all the trump supporters still think there was fraud in the 2020 election, even though they went to court 60 times and not once provided any evidence of fraud. And in the almost 2 years since the election where is the fraud? And the trump voters that voted twice do not count as your fraud allegations. So lay it on me, where is the fraud?
Seems Garlands cronies very worried about a new set of eyes. I wonder why. Would be nice ot J Turley declared he was a Independant going forward instead of a Democrat. He worte about obama blowing up the Justice system. He had to defend trump from a pile of BS. He os now watching the FBI implode now for probably a decade or more. Brennans CIA was a joke. C’mon JT put on yoru big boy pants and call it a say with these law breaking clowns. I realize you will never be a Repub and that is okay because a good chink of them are daft. The most investigated person in the world is a Bull in a China shop. But he was the best thing tio happen to America and came along just in time because nobody else would have been able to stand upto the onslaught of the Pelosi’s Comey’s McConnels Scumers and the likes of the grifter Biden and his Klan
Even spell check won’t make sense of your rant
We should be very grateful as a.nation that Garland is not on the Supreme Court.
The dims should thank god for Trump. Without him they’d have nothing to run on.
And what was trumps repo party platform they ran on in 2020? They did not have one. No official repo party platform. None. They message was, were great, let’s do this again.
His first 3 years were the best 3 years I’ve ever had under any president in my lifetime. I remember whereI was when I heard John Kennedy was murdered. I liked Kennedy and I liked Regan. You can keep the rest of them.
Well there you go, best 3 years of your lifetime. That justifies having hundreds of classified documents in his mar a logo castle. calling for an armed insurrection at the capitol, mucking up our relationship with China and Western Europe.
How did you go from 3 good years to Trump supposedly keeping documents. Hilary Clinton scrubbed 30,000 emails from her personal server, nothing happens. Donald Trump is the mortal enemy of the left wing establishment. And it’s not even him personally, even though he certainly lacks a little bit in that department. It was his policies. Businesses were expanding, pays we’re going up. And for some crazy reason, the Russians seem to be a little dormant. No, the dims don’t want this guy running again and it’s not because he’s rude, crude and verbally abusive. It’s his policies.
It was NOT an insurrection.
According to Biden,
“For those brave right-wing Americans… if you want to fight against the country, you need an F-15. You need something little more than a gun.”
There were no Ultra-MAGA F-15s flying around the Capitol on Jan6th. Nor were there any weapons inside the Capitol building, other than those by the Capitol PD.
Also according to Biden,
“Do you realize the bullet out of an AR-15 travels 5 times as rapidly as a bullet shot out of any other gun.”
Seems to me, our relations have grown worse with China (i.e. Taiwan), the EU (Afghanistan withdraw), the Mid-East (no oil production increase, applying to enter the BRICS), and Israel (Iran nuke deal).
“Well there you go, best 3 years of your lifetime. That justifies having hundreds of classified documents in his mar a logo castle. calling for an armed insurrection at the capitol, mucking up our relationship with China and Western Europe.”
If those were true.
If as increasingly appears true – and everything we have from DOJ and the warrant and afadavit is leading towards that, these are the Collusion delusion documents that Trump declassified.
We can debate whether Trump can defacto declassify but that does not apply to the collusion dellusion documents,
He did that twice publicly, and a third time publicly and by executive order.
There is absolutely no doubt that any and all documents touching on t he collusion delusion and investigation are 100% declassified. Whether the Copy Trump posesses is marked or not.
Then there is the separate issue that whether you like it or not ex-presidents can and do have legal access to classified documents. They retain all access security clearances, subject only to limits imposed by the current president.
Possession of actually classified documents at MAL would not violate any law. Though NARA/DOJ/FBI could legitimately – BUT ONLY AT THE PRESIDENTS DIRECTION remove them. Biden waived Trump’s claim of executive priviledge – something that has never been done before and will with near certainty bite Biden in the ass in 2025. But there is no order on record revoking Trump’s access to any documents currently at MAL, and according to the Obama EO only the president can alter ex-presidents access to classified documents – not NARA, not DOJ, not FBI.
—-
Trump did not call for an insurection, and there was no insurrection – this is another left wing nut “Big Lie”.
There was a legitimate public protest at the capital that was illegally and unconstitutionally thwarted, resulting in some overall tame misconduct, and two Capital Police officers murdering protestors.
——
As to the nonsense about Western Europe and China – what kind of idiot are you ?
Our relationship to China has been growing increasingly hostile from the moment Xi ascended to power. Before Trump took office.
I am a huge free trader – and if the ONLY issue is Trade – Trump’s trade war with China makes absolutely no economic sense.
BUT Trade is NOT the only issue – as we are seeing demonstrated perfectly in Europe right now.
Trade can be a geopolitical weapon – China weilds it, Russia is weilding it, Trump wielded it. Trump used it to work to contain China – not just through Trade restrictions – and Trade deals with other asian countries, But also by shifting the Focus of US foreign policy from Western Europe and Russia to China and Asia. And an enormous amount of Faux Impeachmnet I , is the resistance of the Mideast, Russia and European desks in the Exectutive branch to their inevitable loss of power.
Next Trump’s foreign policy united Tiawan, Japa, Philipeans. Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam and India and others in asia in containing China. Japan has publicly committed that an Attack on Taiwan will be treated as an attack on the japanese homeland.
Japan finally abandoned its completely pacifist and weak military position during Trump. Trump deals with Japan mean that Japan has been able to convert Two Helicopter carriers into F35 carriers and the US is providing planes. This is NOT the equivalent of a US carrier battle group, but it Instantly puts Japans carrier forces on Par with those of China. Further the US and Japan under Trump came to an agreement to take a japanese island in the south china sea and convert it into a large joint airbase. this is a HUGE deal as it means there is the equivalent of an unsinkable Aircraft carrier that is now 600km closer to China than Okaniawa. This quadruples the number of Sorties the US could fly in defense of Taiwan if it were attacked by China.
Next Trump struck a deal with the Philipeans to re-open Subic bay, This is massive. Without Subic bay repair and replensihment of US forces in Asia must come from Pearl Harbor. Okinawa is not as capable as Subic Bay.
In the event of a conflict between the US and China the determining factor in every single wargame that has ever been done is resupplying US forces. The difference between the Anihilation of US forces and the anhilation fo the Chinese forces is the US ability to resupply quickly. The Ronald Reagan Carrier Group can move within 300km of China and destroy absolutely everything in that sphere – until it runs out of defensive weapons – about 2 days. When that happens the entire battle group is sunk in hours.
China is not stupid, they know this. Xi would have taken Taiwan years ago if he could. China’s military has been gradually improving under Xi. Without the above mentions changes implimented by Trump it is near certain Xi would have tried to take Taiwan.
When Biden took office he reversed myriads of Trump policies and EO’s.
But there were a limited number of Trump policies that Biden did not change.
All of those related to Asia. In fact Biden has built upon Trump’s asia policies – because they were correct.
With respect to Western Europe – again – starting long before Trump the US has been striving to get the Europeans to take more responsibility regionally. More responsibility for their own defense. More responsibility for the Mideast, More responsibility for containing Russia, more responsibility for energy policiy that national security.
Many positive changes occurred durin Trump’s presidency – SOME started by Obama.
Obama started the push to get Europe to build up its defences. Trump continued and amplified it.
Trump changed US energy policy dramatically – this reduced the national security implications of the Mideast – making the mideast more important to Europe than the US. This also enable the US to backstop European energy – making it possible for Europe to stand up to Putin – which they have done.
Biden stupidly canned Trump’s energy policies – which only the blind do not grasp created a national security disaster and significantly contributed to Putin invading Ukraine. Oddly Biden kept Trump’s promise to backstop European natural gas,
and as Russian NG exports to Europe drop, US NG exports to europe rise – matching Russian drops.
Russia is actually seeing declining energy revenues from this war, and US energy companies are seeing dramatically rising revenues.
I do not want to say this could have been better had Trump’s polices been continued – because that is incorrect.
Because Russia would not have invaded Ukraine had Trump’s energy policies continued.
And we would not have seen the spectacle of a US president go begging to the very same Saudis that he had said he would NOT go to during the campaign. Trump would not have needed to go to the Saudis, and if he chose to he would not have had to beg.
Biden is renewing the very stupid Iran deal, which is pissing countries all over the mideast off – Israel and the Saudi’s just to start.
Why exactly the Children in the Biden whitehouse think that doing everything in its power to piss off the saudi’s is a good idea is beyond me.
I doubt european leaders Liked Trump. But they worked with him for our and their best interests.
It does not really appear they like Biden either.
Carter is far better than he is given credit.
Nearly all the economic reforms that resulted in the excellent economy Reagan enjoyed were put in place by Carter
Reagan talked a big game about deregulation – but the most significant deregulation in US history was done by Carter.
Carter also brought about the first meaningful Mideast peace deal – and until Trump there was NOTHING since.
There are bad things about Carter – he was just not a charasmatic leader.
He botched the Iran Hostage Crisis.
He was not perfect. But he was atleast as good a president as Trump – and they are actually quite similar – except in matters of style.
Just how stupid does the DOJ and FBI think the America People are?
They keep on with the “just trust us” bovine fecal matter.
They have done their own screening of the documents…..ya’ll don’t need no Special Master…..trust us and move on!
Release the full complete unreacted Affidavit…..oh no….we cannot do that do the Rules and Policies and the risk it might adversely affect the investigation……right!
In that they are telling the truth….the full complete affidavit would destroy their case.
Then we hear the Feebs went to Zuckerberg and covered up the Hunter Biden Story…..and threw yet another National Election.
Folks the FBI is beyond repair and beneath contempt…..and the media that covers for them and the rest of the Democrat Party are co-conspirators.
When the People finally take the actions to indict those culpable in this….it ain’t gonna be pretty.
If this is allowed to continue….if the Republicans do not grow some Wedding Tackle and stand firm and united against this….some real. ugliness is coming.
Step One is November’s Election…..time to turn out the Democrats and elect Republicans….and stop this madness.
“Just how stupid does the DOJ and FBI think the America People are?” They are quite well aware of the answer to this question. There are HORDES of people on the left that soak up and believe every utterance of the DOJ and FBI – most assuredly when it fits their narrative and long-term agenda.
Quite a few of them are on this forum, spewing the talking points they heard on CNN or MSNBC.
Point well taken, but it seemed to me that RC’s question was a rhetorical question.
Ralph Chappell,
I respectfully disagree, but only to a degree about the FBI.
There have been a number of FBI agents, whistleblowers, coming forward to report about the corruption, the polarization of the bureau, agents being told to lie on affidavits, conflating cases for promotion and more.
These are good people.
Their does need to be accountability of those who do not hold to their oath.
“ Just how stupid does the DOJ and FBI think the America People are?”
Very stupid. Especially Trump supporters who have no clue how the law works.
“ Release the full complete unreacted Affidavit…..oh no….we cannot do that do the Rules and Policies and the risk it might adversely affect the investigation……right!”
Can’t do that until charges are filed. That’s just the rules. It’s legal procedure that every lawyer knows including Turley. We are supposed to follow the rules, right?
“ In that they are telling the truth….the full complete affidavit would destroy their case.”
This is were the FBI could show just how stupid people are. You don’t give away your evidence and the reasons for the charges BEFORE going to court. You do that DURING court. When charges are filed and THEN Trump can defend himself…in court. That’s how the justice system works, for everyone.
“ Then we hear the Feebs went to Zuckerberg and covered up the Hunter Biden Story…..and threw yet another National Election.”
All they did was warn Zuckerburg that the laptop info was not certain at the time. Zuckerberg chose to not disseminate that information on his own. That’s it.
“ When the People finally take the actions to indict those culpable in this….it ain’t gonna be pretty.”
Indict them for what? Following the law? This is why the FBI thinks correctly that people are really stupid.
“Department of Justice Tuesday filed in opposition to the appointment of a Special Master in Florida.”
The obvious questions are: What are the FBI/DOJ afraid of? Do they fear the unraveling of yet another hoax? Do they fear creating, yet again, another political “criminal?”
At this point, I would have more respect for the FBI/DOJ if they admitted openly: “Yes. We’re out to get Trump. What of it?”
Why do you ask a loaded question? You assume that they’re “afraid of” something rather than discussing whether they have legitimate legal reasons for opposing it.
My guess is that you haven’t read the motion, which discusses their reasons, including:
* “Not only does Plaintiff lack standing to raise these claims at this juncture, but even if his claims were properly raised, Plaintiff would not be entitled to the relief he seeks,” and
* “the government’s filter team has already completed its work of segregating any seized materials that are potentially subject to attorney-client privilege, and the government’s investigative team has already reviewed all of the remaining materials, including any that are potentially subject to claims of executive privilege. Appointment of a special master to review materials potentially subject to claims of executive privilege would be particularly inappropriate because binding Supreme Court precedent forecloses Plaintiff’s argument that review of these materials by personnel within the Executive Branch raises any such privilege concerns. Furthermore, appointment of a special master would impede the government’s ongoing criminal investigation and—if the special master were tasked with reviewing classified documents—would impede the Intelligence Community from conducting its ongoing review of the national security risk that improper storage of these highly sensitive materials may have caused and from identifying measures to rectify or mitigate any damage that improper storage caused. Lastly, this case does not involve any of the types of circumstances that have warranted appointment of a special master to review materials potentially subject to attorney-client privilege.”
If you think that they’re wrong on the facts, then address that instead of asking a loaded question.
“Why do you ask a loaded question?”
Why do you continuously evade the Left’s motivations?
Answer: Because that’s what Apologists do.
Oh goodie, you respond with another loaded question.
Your opinion is that they are “afraid of” something.
My opinion is you’re the Apologist you complain about.
“What are the FBI/DOJ afraid of? Do they fear the unraveling of yet another hoax? Do they fear creating, yet again, another political “criminal?”
Answer Sam’s question instead of pretending to know things you don’t. Stop deflecting, start responding.
“Answer Sam’s question instead of pretending to know things you don’t. Stop deflecting, start responding.”
When pigs fly.
But thanks for the effort.
It’s better to call loaded questions out for what they are — a fallacy: https://iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#LoadedQuestion — than to respond as if the loaded question isn’t loaded.
Holy Freaking Cow!!!
So many people in this thread have completely swallowed 100% of the anti-Trump and pro-Trump propaganda narratives being spewed throughout the media as if these narratives are all absolute irrefutable facts. These unsupported claims taken as fact are flowing from the fingertips of people and flooding the thread with unwarranted vitriol.
People, people please get your heads out of your “bias” and start thinking critically; not all of the narratives you’re hearing are based on actual facts, in fact most of what you’re hearing is pure biased opinions and over the top innuendo filled propaganda.
If you think this comment is specifically about you then maybe you should seriously reevaluate your commentary.
Ok Pal, Lets give You the full-regard of Your premise of thought.
In this scenario:
The Ex-President is completely Guilty and More. He’s found guilty of everything put out there (The whole Nine Yards).
They even Execute (Full Treason Capitol Punishment); Him, His Family, His Cabinet and Lawyers – Anyone remotely connected to Him is put away for good.
Further all records of His history are burned. All his badness & being is wiped out.
What remains is the; Deep State Characters, The Bureaucratic Characters, The Media Characters, The Federal Reserve Characters, Wall Street Characters, Spooky Characters, etc. etc. too fill the vacuum left.
Where will be be then?
What will it be like?
How will it run?
I’m asking You.
I yield the floor: When we were misbehaving kids, my parents frequently threatened that they were going to put us on “a slow boat to China.” Now, that’s beginning to sound preferable to the scenario you posit! LOL
Amen, I with you.
It’s a good thing Mom took me to those
Red Cross Jr. Lifesaving Swimming lesson,
I may have to swim the Rio Grande River southbound.
Ha Ha Ha Ha, PERFECT response, you are clever, thanks for the fun
Perhaps it’s because you’re in the minority who buy into Trump’s excuses which have constantly changed whenever contradictory evidence is presented.
It simply means the views on the minority is shrinking as more evidence comes forward.
Svelaz wrote, “Perhaps it’s because you’re in the minority who buy into Trump’s excuses which have constantly changed whenever contradictory evidence is presented.
It simply means the views on the minority is shrinking as more evidence comes forward.”
In context with what I actually wrote your comment is not relevant.
You clearly didn’t read and/or comprehend ALL of what I wrote.
Try again.
Witherspoon, clearly you were ranting about people being fooled into buying the government’s narrative. Problem is of course every time Trump trots out a new excuse the DOJ proves him wrong. The government has evidence on its side. Trump has excuses without evidence.
Svelaz wrote, “clearly you were ranting about people being fooled into buying the government’s narrative…”
Reread this section of my comment which sets up that my entire comment was 100% bi-partisan…
I wrote, “…completely swallowed 100% of the anti-Trump and pro-Trump propaganda narratives…”
I know you’re a trolling fool but after I specifically told you to reread because you didn’t properly comprehend my comment and then you doubled down on your BS smear to attack those you disagree with, well Svelaz, that just makes you look like a complete imbecile.
Have a nice day trolling.