Below is my column on Fox.com on President Joe Biden’s comment on his corvette and the unfolding of a defense from his counsel, including the “inadvertence” defense. While this defense is better than the conspiracy theory put forward by Rep. Hank Johnson (D., Ga.) and others that the documents may have been planted, it has some obvious risks and conflicts.
Here is the column:
“Like a car, only better.” That slogan for Corvette sold a lot of cars, but, until last week, it was never used with regard to classified documents. President Joe Biden responded to a question Thursday from Fox’s Peter Doocy about the disclosure of additional classified documents found in his garage next to his corvette at his home in Delaware. The president responded “My Corvette is in a locked garage, OK? So, it’s not like they’re sitting out on the street.”
Like his car, Biden had classified documents stored in his garage but it was hardly better.
There is no question that Biden’s 1967 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray is one hot car. Most of us would take the Stingray over an assortment of classified Ukraine briefing papers or memos. However, foreign intelligence may be more discerning.
The fact is that the argument that you protected classified documents as carefully as your Corvette will not cut it with the criminal code. As the Justice Department stated in the Trump filings, the mishandling of classified material can be a criminal act. The Justice Department cited provisions included 18 U.S.C. 793 (Gathering or Transmitting Defense Information) and 18 U.S.C. 2071 (Concealment, Removal, or Mutilation Generally).
Despite that history, many experts assured the public, without any evidence but a couple leaks, that there was no criminal conduct involving Biden.
Harvard Professor Laurence Tribe has previously run through the criminal code on what Donald Trump should be charged with, including witness tampering, obstruction of justice, criminal election violations, Logan Act violations, extortion, espionage, and treason by Trump or his family.
Tribe insisted that “without any doubt, beyond a reasonable doubt, beyond any doubt, and the crimes are obvious.” Most recently, that included a charge of attempted murder of former Vice President Mike Pence.
Yet, when Biden was accused of the same unlawful possession of classified information, Tribe needed no further evidence. He declared “One is criminal (Trump). And one is not criminal (Biden). Say it in plain English.”
Mueller’s top aide Andrew Weissmann added “It’s not a crime to accidentally take and retain govt docs. If upon learning that you have docs, you return them, there is no crime.”
Clearly, the Justice Department did not agree. In order to appoint a special counsel, the Attorney General had to find “that criminal investigation of a person or matter is warranted.” That does not mean that there is criminal conduct in this case, but the law prefers, at least for appearance’s sake, to wait for a modicum of evidence before making final judgments.
Biden’s counsel has insisted that this is merely “inadvertently misplaced.” That statement is belied by a couple facts. First, it seems that these documents were likely moved more than once. Biden left office as vice president in 2017. He presumably took these documents at that time. However, they ended up in different places, including one document found separately from the “garage files” in the residence.
Moreover, Biden had an office at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia after finishing his term in 2017. On February 8, 2018, the Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement says that it opened its doors in Washington, D.C.
Biden could not have moved into the D.C. office until later that year. So those documents had to be moved from another location with moving trucks and personnel. They then sat in the office for years as other classified documents sat in his garage with his Corvette.
At some point, some documents were sent to the office and some to the residence and garage. What explained this division if it was not based on what the then vice president was working on?
The “inadvertent” defense hardly fits neatly with these facts. Moreover, if Biden worked off any of these documents for his book (which dealt with some of the underlying subjects like Ukraine), the inadvertent defense is not only shattered but could be cited later as an effort to deceive the public.
There are already concerns over the public statements from the president and his staff. The White House was already aware that there was not just one but three discoveries (the Penn Biden office, the garage, and the residence) of classified documents. However, the president indicated that only the Penn Biden office documents were at issue.
Finally, there is a question about the timeline. There seemed to be a general lack of urgency from the government despite finding documents classified at the high “Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information” (TS/SCI) level.
However, it took two days for the archives to notify the Justice Department. It then took seven days after the discovery for the FBI to do a risk assessment. Most notably, after the discovery of classified material in two locations, it was private counsel who discovered the last classified document. That was December 20th. It is not clear if the FBI asked or were allowed to conduct its own search before December 20th given the repeated discoveries in different locations.
While Garland finally made an appointment, he appears to have done so with one huge benefit to Biden. Unlike the sweeping mandate given the special counsel for Trump, the Biden mandate appears quite narrow. There was no reference to the alleged Biden influence peddling scandal, which long ago warranted a special counsel appointment.
We may soon, however, see an extraordinary historical development where both leading candidates for the presidency will be campaigning with their own assigned special counsels.
Thks for posting,
I again I noticed that Hep B vax for new borns stands out among the other crap vaxxes.
Doesn’t that strike you as dumbest, most imbecilic, thing to do to a New Born just pasted the birth canal, the Hep B shot?
Zero Chance that new born is “Shooting Dope” or “Fagging Off engaged in acts of Sodomy”, with the likes of a Hunter Biden Types!
The Doc can test most everyone in advance of the birth, the mom, dad, doc, nurses, priest, rabbi, mullah (sic), etc.,.
Would it not be better the doc/nurses/hospital just smack the new born baby with a h*ammer? Damn the sick basstards to Hell.
Moving along, aside from all the rest that died last week of that Fauci/big Pharma mRNA horrible clot/deeath shot this deead lil 2yr old girl came up on one of my news aggregators:
**************
VAERS Shows 2-Year-Old NH Girl Dieed Within 24 Hours After Getting COVID Vaccine
by Steve MacDonald / 14 January 2023
https://granitegrok.com/blog/2023/01/vaers-shows-2-year-old-nh-girl-dieed-within-24-hours-after-getting-covid-vaccine
**************
When will the Sick, Demonic Evil B Pharma/Hospital/Docs pull these kiiller mRNA Shots off the market least least until their last 2 yrs of Human Guinea Pig Experiments results are published???
Even Ozzy knew something back then.
Jonathon, you know all those pesky laws only apply to conservative Republicans, not others. C’mon, man! Can you imagine all the juicy Iraq War crap that Liz Cheney made off with? Will she be prosecuted? Methinks not. Biden? Ditto.
All this means is our gov should not lecture other countries about their short comings until we have our own house in order to be a shining example
Read an interesting opinion in Politico this morning. The author of this opinion stated that Biden’s possession of classified documents was inadvertent. He went on in the same sentence to say that the Hillary Clinton server was inadvertent. My assessment is that the author was inadvertently delusional. Hillary said, I want you to inadvertently put that server right their in that closet. Don’t forget to inadvertently wipe it clean when your done. Then she inadvertently smashed her phones with a hammer which she inadvertently picked up at Home Depot. The author of the article inadvertently stopped by the Whitehouse after his article was published to get his cookie. He inadvertently gulped it down.
Thinkitthrough: Good for bringing this up. In further confirmation of what you mention, I cannot remember if I textually read online, or visually saw (on CNN) an interviewee ingenuously declare that the “inadvertence” of the documents being found was the result of the sudden haste and chaos created by the unexpected result of Trump winning the election instead of Clinton, so everything was just hurriedly packed up….(smile). Yes, he actually proffered this explanation.
I cannot help but conclude that the delay in releasing official WH statement or media information was the result of Andrew Jackson “kitchen cabinet” analysis and discussion to create a scenario that would stick/be credible.
Five more classified documents were found at Biden’s home, bringing the total there to six, plus the ones in the garage, plus the ones at the D.C. office.
The story is that the lawyers who found the first one in Biden’s home Wednesday night didn’t have security clearances so stopped looking. Sauber went Thursday to get it,accompanied by several DOJ officials, and found five more when he got there.
How could it be that lawyers sent to look for classified documents wouldn’t have security clearances?
So often debate descends to leftist word mangling. Where the FACTS are obvious.
I have no idea PRECISELY what Biden’s involvement was.
But the Documents came from the Obama WH, they landed somewhere else – likely Biden’s home for atleast a year, and then were moved to the Garage and Biden Center.
They did not move themselves.
Further Biden used the documents at the Biden Center as material for his book.
It is difficult to beleive that Joe Biden never saw these documents.
The claim that Joe “did the right thing” – is Bogus.
The right thing was never to take any of this – the WH docs the Classified docs.
The right thing was never to move them to the garage and the Biden Center.
The right thing was not to reference them for your book.
The right thing was not to go after a political opponent for something you knew or should have known you were doing yourself.
1984 was a warning not a howto manual.
Make 1984 Fiction again
This was not INADVERTENCE this is blatant DIVERTICULITIS….
“Trump sold his missing documents to his buddy Putin.”
It used to be possible to have a reasoned dabate with Leftists. Its college-campus posters, for example, were filled with text articulating *ideological* arguments. They actually knew the counter-arguments, and would engage the opposition via those arguments.
Tragically, the Left has become an inflammed movement of conspiracy theories (from RussiaGate on down), incessant deflections (“But Santos”), and vicious smears (“You’re a racist.”).
I miss the old Left. As wrong as it was, at least it was still a distant child of the Enlightenment.
The American right is owned by Putin. Just ask Trump.
george227, I love your comments. They are living proof that leftist are wackos. Even after all the evidence that says that Trump was not a Putin plant has come to light. Even after The New York Times, and the Washington Post have admitted that RussiaGate was a hoax cooked up by Hillary Clinton you persist in your delusion. The sad thing is that you are not the only leftist who has lost his grip on reality. Keep up the comedy.
TROLL
Silly puerile name-caller.
American Left IS OWNED BY Kim Jon ILL
He died a decade ago, Toots.
Did you,too?
To borrow your phrase”Silly puerile name-caller”.
It’s hypocrisy, Toots.
Through all of this is simple fact is ignored.
The government has never asked Trump for any Classified Documents.
They did for more than a year, and finally got a search warrant to get what they could.
Where were you? Moscow?
BS. Not only was he asked by NARA and the DOJ, he was subpoenaed for them.
Subpoenaed for documents marked classified
Which is how they describe classified documents.
To anonymous – if you are going to comment, grow a pair and take credit for you insight.
It’s interesting that NARA could not specifically identify the classified documents that were ‘missing’, especially when Trump said he didn’t have any (which is technically true because they were de-facto declassified by the mere fact of Trump possessing them). Possible FBI was trying to recover incriminating evidence of their own malfeasance
“they were de-facto declassified by the mere fact of Trump possessing them”
That’s false. Possession alone doesn’t declassify them.
Which is how they describe classified documents.
LOL! Lawyers take great pride in their use of the language, take pride in their economy of words. Always precise and clean. No lawyer would add a meaningless modifier. ONLY if it is required to make sure what they wanted was precise.
Much like the Biden Scope letter. very few words and the scope includes ” unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents…”
No mention of ‘marked classified’. That would be because Vice President Biden has no power to declassify documents he did not classify himself. The DoJ admitts the documents held by Trump are declassified. Because the DoJ could not risk having Trump ignore a subpeonea for classified documents, and try to get a Judge to believe Trump did not have the power to declassify .
And if you look at the Jack Smith scope letter, it refers the reader to “the ongoing investigation referenced and described in the United States’ Response to Motion for Judicial Oversight and Additional Relief, Donald J Trump v. Un ited States, No. 9:22-CV-81294-AMC (S .D. Fla. Aug. 30, 2022) (ECF No. 48 at 5- 13),” which in turn refers REPEATEDLY to “classified documents … Highly Classified Records … classified national security information … classified records … highly classified records … classified records … highly classified records … Additional Classified Records … Classified Information … classified documents …” (and I’m not even quoting all of the relevant phrases).
“The DoJ admitts the documents held by Trump are declassified.”
You’re a whopping liar. It has done nothing of the sort.
You’re a whopping liar. It has done nothing of the sort.
Referring to, is not asking for their return.
Then why the is word “marked” used in the search warrant.
Maybe you failed math and don’t understand subsets well. {Marked classified} = {classified with markings} U {unclassified with markings}
correction: “declassified” rather than “unclassified”
With the close relationships with Ukraine and Chine that Hunter (and by proxy, Joe) Biden had, what is the possibility that some of the classified documents wound up in the hands of foreign governments, either by accident or by design?
“[W]hat is the possibility that some of the classified documents wound up in the hands of foreign governments . . .”
Well, let’s see: A drug-addled, hooker-buying, China-compromised son who abandoned his laptop at a repair shop — who has easy access to those classified documents.
You’d have to be a fool to allow such scum within a mile of a cookie jar.
Trump sold his missing documents to his buddy Putin
Remember the Helsinki press conference where Trump told the world he trusted Putin’s secret service more than ours? They also had secret talks. What were Trump’s orders from Putin?
How does Sam get to avail himself of our laws for bankruptcy……chapter like it’s an on going concern….when it violates section d and is illegal and theyre by void ab initio? Why does he get the chapter of our bankruptcy code? For for an illegal front? Redo? And how does the bankruptcy court have jurisdiction? I’m just curious! I don’t think he should get it qualified to get “our” bankruptcy protectiion. He should avail himself of the protection he Iy corporate with.not fall back on us! To give him this chapter ….equates what he was doing was legal….if it was then I’ll start selling shares….oh but I can’t advertise them unregistered…no matter I’m just sell “accounts”. The sec is too stupid to catch on! To their own regs d! Public advedprtising…here in public. I am looking for investors in a strawberry patch……in flirida….plan to incorporate in delaware. INterested? This isn’t public it’s only Turkey’s private site. Free sppeech!!!!!
When you combine Delaware business judge case laws…..with crooked people….this is what you get….. race to the bottom I. Ethics….Harvey Gelb and Scalia predicted this.. decades ago!
OT
Why does DeSantis want to split the conservative vote and spawn a communist (liberal, progressive, socialist, democrat, RINO, AINO) triumph?
Clinton was the first black president.
Obama was the first woman president.
DeSantis wants to be the first hispantino presidente.
_________________________________________
Real President Donald J. Trump wants to Make America Great Again!
George,
I can’t get into much, but I suggest looking at this as their circus, after their Show, 6mos, 1yr, their show will look far different then today.
In the mean time, have a laugh & share it. 🙂
****
https://twitter.com/TFMetals/status/1613270598381084688
Desantis was a good guy congressman! And navy vet. And he’s still decent. But I hear you – he could be controlled opposition….yet tbd…. But when you do your actual calculas….be sure to input that Florida has like a dozen “federal” bases….that’s a ton of federal money influx other states don’t have. When he comparison braggs. Also when he comparison brags….we should point out now that Florida has gone all rich people part time condos….so and ask who actually gets to vote in florida! ? Because it’s not the part timers owning condos….And it’s not the illegal migrants cleaning condos…..yeah there are still as of today voting floridians….but if he keeps up the fence sitting…Florida will go socialist….it serfs! Depending on what he enforces….illegals voting because they clean condos…..or illegals voting because they own condos….Florida could go either way. I am not sure he gets that!
None the less the former governor of Arkansas and maine….after dealing their states blows…head to Florida for the non taxes good life….And their home states don’t even “extridite” their pensions. And we thought Sam was bad. Delaware plus Florida equal as if bahamas. If I were sbf…Sam shld be arguing right now….about the allegedly “uniform” laws on bankruptcy! To whit evidence that he incorporated elsewhere can not…..be used as intent. Because he could have incorp To in Delaware – race to the bottom..- ..And found more favorable in florida than bahama…..then again… That’s just us law. He was wild West into no man’s land “internationak” law…..gimmicky no one internationally gives him bankruptcy protectction…..just the usa…And our constitution has been on the books since ikn….And it’s still not uniform!
It’s terrible sad….when our bankruptcy laws are suppose to be “uniform” but they are not. It’s terrible sad then an overseas outfit like Sam can can call on them for protection…And our regulators even contemplate a restructuring of something that was illegal from the start. In their chapter of bankruptcy…….I feel duped as a citizen! None s could even advertise like him without running into reg d. Let alone insider trading. We’d be stopped at advertising….by blue sky laws….yet he gets to avail himself of “our” bankruptcy laws…why???why…his investors knew our should have known our bankruptcy laws are NOT uniform….they could have taken there chances wth bahamas bankruptcy laws. I’m sorry but me wonderful and Brady made their deals….they can’t get out laws.! …so it in the bahamas! Where you did business!.! You can’t restructure here….something that’d is illegal to begin with….advertising unregistered shit publically! Reg d for me but not for the!
“Why does DeSantis want to split the conservative vote and spawn a communist (liberal, progressive, socialist, democrat, RINO, AINO) triumph?”
George, did I miss something? What did DeSantis do to split the conservative vote?
The FBI need to seize that there Corvette as Material Evidence used to transport ‘Confidential Top Secret Documents’ of the United States.
Obviously when Joe got home he set the Documents down out of the Car and had to run into the House to take a pee and forgot about them (The Documents) being in the Garage.
His Housekeeper saw them sitting there and was going to take them with Her when she goes back to Nicaragua for Easter Holiday and share them with President Daniel Ortega (Bill Clinton’s Buddy), but her plans have changed now that all of her Children have crossed the Rio Grande into the U.S. and she need to use the time to focus on them.
They (The Docs) should have been put into the Recycle Bin and dragged out to the curb for pickup but Joe forgot that pickup is on Wednesday and didn’t do it in time. Ya know Jill would be damned if she was haven to take out the Garage Cans. So they sat there.
You know how it is.
This just a DISTRACTION
D. istraction
R
A
M
A
The Fed Sent $76BN To Treasury In 2022; It Is Now Sending $650 Million To Banks Every Day Instead
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/fed-sent-76bn-treasury-2022-it-now-sending-650-million-banks-every-day-instead
Is this smokescreen taking the news about the Biden Crime Family out of the media?
They may be killing two birds with one stone.
They may be trading a non-prosecution for a Biden withdrawal from ’24 to allow them to run Moochhell.
“Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.”
– FBI Director James Comey
Said about Clinton, not Trump or Biden.
IMPARTIAL JURIES CANNOT BE PARTIAL TO DEFENDANTS
DURHAM LOSES EVERY AIRTIGHT, SLAM DUNK CASE IN D.C.
WHAT IS THE SUPREME COURT DOING, DELIVERING JUSTICE?
_______________________________________________________
Cases against Biden, the Biden Crime Family and John Durham’s targets should enjoy changes of venue to Texas or Florida.
There may be some “reasonable” prosecutors there.
Venue is currently assigned with known bias and partiality.
Venue must serve the defense and prosecution.
A jury must be of one’s impartial peers, not of one’s closest friends, relatives, ideological soul mates and fellow gang members.
The J6 trials, Durham cases and nearly every case brought shows the corruption in DC courts is just as bad as in the Capitol….
Durham should have lost the Danchenko case.
The FBI KNEW what Danchenko was telling them was a hoax when he was interviewed.
While the jury was certainly biased, its decision was also correct.
However the trial itself produced damning evidence regarding the FBI.
Sussman is more complicated.
Sussman lied to the FBI and they knew he was lying – that is immoral, but not illegal.
But Sussman also falsely reported a crime and the FBI investigated that crime.
That is different, the issue with a false report is NOT supposed to be did law enforcement beleive you.
It is SUPPOSED to be – does law enforcement investigate those you falsely accused.
Clinton’s conduct was several orders of magnitude worse than either Trump or Biden.
Though Biden’s is still worse than Trump’s.
I will be happy to concede that if Gigi is actually right that the Mar-a-lago Pool boy had access to actual classified documents, that is atleast as Bad as Biden. But that is more fake news from the yellow press.
We do not as of yet KNOW that Biden’s documents WERE accessed by people who should not have.
But we KNOW they easily could have been.
For all we know Hunter was selling them
He had access to both the garage and Biden center.
Being familiar with the actual facts does not make you a shill.
Not knowing which case is which – the court order was for Trump enterprise business records that the NY AG though were hiding in Trump family members homes. A Trump attorney searched all of the homes and found no responsive documents – that makes you a shill.
A subpoena is not a court order.
Can we get rid of the fake news.
A subpeona is NOT a court order.
It is a demand by an attorney. It has no actual force until a Judge is asked to turn it into a court order.
There was a court order in a different case in NY for unrelated documents where the AG accused Trump of failing to comply with a subpeona. The attorneys searched Found nothing, and the court order was cleared.
NARA and FBI were given free reign to come to MAL to look for documents. They did multiple times.
They were told they could take what they wanted – they did multiple times.
The FBI directed Trump to add another lock to the closet these documents were in – they knew they were there, they did not take them.
Instead of coming back to get those documents.
Instead of going to court to get a court order.
The jumped the line and went for a warrant.
This was apolicitcal setup from the start – Now Biden is “hoist by his own Petard”
As ExVP’s do NOT have any of the defenses Trump has.
Worse still Biden’s Docs were found in highly unsafe places.
Um. Nope. A Subpeona is a specific type of court order. It is a court order requesting documents or testimony.
Nope A subpoena is a subpoena not a court order.
If a subpoena was a court order – I would be able to personally have sent numerous people to Jail.
Judges sign court orders.
Attorney’s sign Subpeona’s.
An attorney can not issue a subpeona without a Court case.
When a subpeona is violated. The Judge has to determine what is done – That is a court order.
In the specific Case involving Trump. A DOJ attorney involved in the J6 Grand Jury Subpeona the Trump Attorney responsible for Records, to appear before the GJ and bring responsive documents.
Often the attorney accepts receipt of the documents without testimony.
I am not sure whether the Attorny actually appeared before the GJ.
Regardless, if the DOJ Attorney did not beleive the Subpeona was fully complied with the next step usually is to get an actual court order from the judge. This was a GJ, so there is a judge assigned to handle matters like this for the GJ.
The Judge has many choices – absent a total failure to respond at all – the judge usually hears arguments from both sides.
The Judge can issue an order which allows the Attorney to show up at MAL or any other place Trump may have documents with a Sherriff or marshal and retrieve documents.
The Judge can can sanction Trump and or his attorney until they produce requested documents or – as occured in the NY case certify to the court that no responsive documents were found after a rigorous search.
In civil cases an alternative is absolutely nothing happens – Except that the subpeonaed party may not use the unproduced documents in court,
And possibly the judge may instruct the finder of fact that they can draw negative inferences from the failure to produce.
The judge can also decide that the requirements of the subpeona were met.
If as you claim the subpeona were a court order – there would have been no need for DOJ to get a warrant.
If it were a court order, then Sherrif’s and marshals can be directed by attorney’s to enforce it.
The subpoena is Attachment C:
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/department-of-justice-attachments-mar-a-lago-mal-subpoena-fbi-photograph-august-30-2022.pdf
It clearly says at the top that it’s a court document from the US District Court for the District of Columbia.
It can clearly say whatever it wants – it is still a subpeona not a court order.
Actual court orders are signed by Judges – not Attorney’s – Read the Subpeona, NOWHERE did a judge sign it.
Have you ever actually dealt with a real subpeona in court ?
Have you issued one ?
Have you had to comply with one ?
I have done both.
They are NOT court orders.
If they were you could get a marshal or sheriff or constable to enforce them if they are violated.
YOU CAN’T.
If you fail to show up at court when you are subpeoned, a Judge MAY issue a warrant or other order for you to appear.
That is a court order. You can take that to a marshal, sheriff, or constable as appropriate and they will FORCE the person in question to do as the order requires.
If you fail to produce documents – a judge could hold you in contempt – that is a court order.
In the NY case – that was NOT about Classified documents but a Claim by the NY AG that Trump personally was hiding Trump Enterprises documents in his home. The NY AG claimed the subpeona was not complied with, Held Trump in contempt. Find him for each day he refused to produce. Trump’s attorney then searched all the places the NY AG wanted searched, confirmed in a sworn statement that no responsive documents were found, described all the places she had searched. and the Judge lifted the Contempt.
That is one of many normal ways you deal with failure to comply with a subpeona.
It is also possible that an attorney can go to court claiming that his subpeona was not complied with and the court could tell him to go pound sand.
Or myriads of other possibilities.
Your trying to play semantic games.
If you want to redefine a “court order” as a demand from an attorney threatening to get a judge to do mean things to you if you do not honor his demand – then a subpoena is a court order.
But my and the common definition of a court order is an order signed by a judge that empowers law enforcement and court officials to use actual Force against you to get you to comply.
You want me to take your word over that of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Too bad.
I do not want you to take anyones word about anything.
I want you to deal with FACTS.
Demand != Order.
Attorney != Court.
This is actually important because you are being Deceptive when you claim Trump violated a court order.
You CLEARLY want people to beleive that A judge told him to do something and he did not.
But that is NOT what happened and you know it.
In point of fact you STILL can not even prove the Subpeona was violated.
You can not do that without establishing three things:
The documents were not declassified.
Copies were not provided to attny Bratt
The lawyer in question did not inadvertantly miss these documents.
Also see Rule 45 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_45
“Although the subpoena is in a sense the command of the attorney who completes the form, defiance of a subpoena is nevertheless an act in defiance of a court order …”
So what, Mr. Hotdog attorney? Are you now taking away rights where a judge is involved? Are you saying someone cannot object to a subpoena? You are on a path to restrict individual rights, speech, and others.
Work on your reading comprehension. John falsely claimed “A subpeona is NOT a court order,” and I showed him he was wrong. That’s it.
“Are you …? Are you …?”
I’m not. Bizarre that you imagine otherwise.
“Work on your reading comprehension. “
No need to. My reading comprehension is sufficient, but I also read what else you say and put those things together. You can’t because your arguments day-to-day and month-to-month conflict with one another as you change your arguments to meet your Stalinist needs. This time you are playing word games.
What I don’t understand, ATS, is why anyone knowing what you are and how spitefully you can act towards others that anyone treats you with the respect you don’t afford them.
No you just showed that you can play word games.
A subpoena is a demand by an attorney that can not be enforced without an actual order by a judge.
Even YOUR sources confirm that.
It is not from the court. It is not from a judge.
It is not an order, it is a demand.
Anyone – including the federal rules of civil procedure claiming that a subpeona is a court order is orwellian.
Words have meaning – Orders are something that MUST be obeyed. Not something that it is probably a good idea to obey most of the time.
Court can have many meanings – but usually refers to a judge.
What it does not mean is an attorney.
The semantic games you are playing here – can be done with almost anything.
That does not make them meaningful.
The Supreme court of the united states can call a cat a dog, they can not make it bark.
Work on YOUR understanding of actual meaning.
I know this concept may be difficult for you.
But you can not change meaning, by playing games with labels.
If I agree with you that a subpeona is a court order.
Are you going to agree that it is a demand not an order, and that it comes from an attorney, and not a judge, and that the only danger ignoring a subpeona is what a judge MAY subsequently do ?
Put simply you have “proven” that people misuse labels.
That does not change meaning.
Still playing semantic Games.
Courts do not review Subpeona’s.
An attorney can subpoena anything they want.
Obviously you are not brain dead enough to beleive that is Jay Bratt subpeona’d Trump to bring the Brooklynn bridge to a Grand Jury
That if he failed to do so, that there is a federal judge on the planet that would hold Trump in contempt.
In fact the Judge would sanction the Attny. Bratt were he to do so.
This is really trivial.
US Attorney’s are prosecutors. They are NOT judges.
They can make DEMANDS,
They can not issue ORDERS that on their own authority permit the use of FORCE to remedy breach.
Absolutely if a US Attorney makes a reasonable Demand consistent with the domain of the investigation, the judge will ORDER compliance should the Subpoena not be complied with.
I would say that people should take subpeona’s seriously – but in my experience (civil) they do not, and there are rarely any consequences.
If Attny. Bratt felt that he has issued a valid subpeona that was within the domain of the legitimate investigation before the GJ, he culd have gone to the judge who was attached to that GJ and sought an ACTUAL Court order.
That judge could:
Hold Trump/lawyers in contempt until they produced documents.
Or more likely schedule a hearing to hear arguments – asking Bratt why he beleived that the subpeona was legitimate, that the scope was not over broad, and that it was within the domain of the investigation, and why he beleived Trump had not complied.
And Trump’s lawyers could have argued why the subpeona was invalid overbroad, …..
And then the Judge could have issued an ACTUAL Court order – that could be anything from finding Trump in contempt through quashing the subpeona.
What WE KNOW is that Bratt did nothing.
SDT – we are arguing over words. A subpoena is a discovery device issued in blank by a court and entrusted to an attorney to fill out and serve. If challenged by the subject, it will be reviewed by the Court and either enforced or quashed, or some of both. It is a discovery device for use by adults, not partisans. Anyone doubting this description can review federal rule of crinimal procedure 17.
A warrant is a court order.
“NARA and FBI were given free reign to come to MAL to look for documents.”
They weren’t. The DOJ specifically noted in the affidavit that “the FBI agents and DOJ attorney were permitted to visit the storage room. Critically, however, the former President’s counsel explicitly prohibited government personnel from opening or looking inside any of the boxes that remained in the storage room,” and they “were allowed only a brief view of the storage room and were expressly told that they could not open any boxes to review their contents.”
“They were told they could take what they wanted”
They weren’t.
“The FBI directed Trump to add another lock to the closet these documents were in”
They didn’t. They told him to secure the documents appropriately (i.e., a SCIF).
The Text you cite is NOT present in the unredacted portions of the Affadavit.
I would also suggest reading the claims by the agent in the unredacted portions of the affadavit.
In one place he claims that Mar-A-Lago does not contain a SCIF, But elsewhere he confirms that it did while Trump was President.
The Closet in Question magically changed from a SCIF to an insecure location on Jan 21, 2021 according the the Affadavit.
Elsewhere the Agent confirms that claims were made that the documents had been declassified – in fact that the documents were RussiaGate documents. But the unredacted portion of the document NEVER shows the Agent confirming or disproving that with respect tot he prior “classified” documents that were retrieved which he uses as a basis for the Warrant application.
If the agent sought a warrant to Raid VP Biden’s home – where Biden has absolutely no authority to declassify there would be no need to confirm that the documents previously retrieved were still classified.
The claim regarding the documents previously retrieved is specific and confirmable.
That they were Russiagate Documents and that they had been declassified by Executive order.
There are two EO’s Declassifying EVERYTHING regarding Russiagate.
It is a simple matter to determine if the documents NARA received were Russiagate documents.
There is no evidence in the Affadavit that the Agent did.
In fact specific refences by the Agent in the Afadavit STRONGLY imply the NARA documents were Russiagate Documents – as an example the agent Specifically noted references to FISA in that documents.
I expect there is going to be a holy war as the House works to pry all of this out of the FBI/DOJ and WH.
Just as we saw with RussiaGate.
But there are some fundimental differences. House Republicans now KNOW they can not trust DOJ/FBI.
It took far longer to get to the bottom of RussiaGate because far too many Republicans Trusted Rod Rosenstein, and though though he was being obstructive he was doing his job and there was a real meaningful investigation he was trying to protect.
We now know that the entire FBI Trump Russia investigation was based on a hoax from the start – and the FBI knew that.
And we know that many of the same agents are involved in the MAL raid.
Whether you like it or not – the DOJ/FBI has ZERO trust on this. Not with me, not with the House.
Nor is Russiagate the only major dishonesty problem regarding he FBI.
House republicans now know that the FBI rigged the 2020 election. And likely the 2022 one.
They know that DOJ/FBI have been engaged for the past 2 years in politically corrupt investigations all over the place.
Right down to Moms and pops trying to protect there kids from rapists at school.
Frankly the FBI has massive credibility problems, from the Flynn case, to the US Gymnasitcs team, to the NSBA letter to RussiGate, to many FISA warrant lies – not just the Page warrant, to the entrappment of the Michigan Wolverines,
And on and on.
The RussiaGate investigation proceeded more slowly – because in 2017 Republicans were not prepared to beleive the extent of political corruption within the FBI.
Today they will get answers. They will not pound their head against a rock multiple times.
I expect large numbers of people at FBI and DOJ to be held in contempt fairly quickly.
We could easily see the house sargent at arms jailing members of DOJ/FBI for contempt of congress.
MAL like every Presidents home had a SCIF during Trump’s presidency.
It did not disapear on Jan 21, 2021.
That SCIF was the closet in question.
You’re an idiot. If the closet were a SCIF, they wouldn’t have told him that it needed to be made secure.
As for the rest of your words vomits, you’re not paid to edit them, and I’m not paid to wade through unedited vomits.
“You’re an idiot. If the closet were a SCIF, they wouldn’t have told him that it needed to be made secure.”
Because FBI agents are to be trusted ?
Anonymous – this is pretty Trivial.
It WAS a SCIF on Jan 20,2021.
Nothing about it subsequently changed.
The FBI Agent YOU are relying on said it was not sufficiently secure much latter.
The logical conclusion is the agent does not know what he is talking about.
BTW the FBI investigates people for security clearances.
If does not grant them, it merely recomends.
The FBI does not design SCIF’s
I worked for a Defense contractor. We had a SCIF.
It was a large closet/small room. It had an ordinary lock – but only the FSO had a key.
It was in a building of typical office construction.
The gap under the door was large enough to get a cord under and roll the door knob.
Or you could just go to the ajacent room and lift up the ceiling tile and crawl over the wall.
Or you could cut through the drywall with a pen knife.
It is not the job of an FBI agent to determine whether something qualifies as a SCIF.
“As for the rest of your words vomits, you’re not paid to edit them, and I’m not paid to wade through unedited vomits.
Ad. Hominem is not arguement.
Read, don’t
Your choice.
But it is your own stupidity that is exposed when you insult what you admit you have not read.
You are still posting anonymously.
You still have zero credibility.
When I checked your quotes in the 38 page affadavit that has been made public, they are not present in the underacted portion.
I hav no interest in what you say others say.
I have no interest in what the press says FBI or DOJ told them without a specific quote from a named source that can be verified.
Those of you on the left have lied so much, so large and so often, that you would have to be perfectly correct for 10 years before I would trust you again.
You still do not seem to grasp that burdens of proof are NOT equal.
The burden of proof for people who have been caught lying in the past is much higher than others.
And that includes the FBI and DOJ who have repeatedly been caught lying.
Jonathan: Let me get this straight. You say the Special Counsel’s mandate to investigate the Biden docs “appears quite narrow” and there was “no reference to the alleged Biden influence peddling scandal,…” What does the one have to do with the other? They are quite separate matters.
For some time you have “alleged” that Hunter Biden’s laptop reveals a vast corruption scheme in the Biden family. The worst in US history you have said. Yesterday on Fox Laura Ingraham echoed your allegations. Speaking of the Special Counsel in the Biden docs matter Ingraham said: “If only we had a president who cared more about what was good for the country and less about how to protect his family’s family business interests”. The irony was not lost on viewers considering Trump’s family business was found guilty last month of fraud and other financial crimes in a 15 year scam that lined the pockets of Trump executives at the expense of NY taxpayers. That seemed to slip Ingraham’s mind and yours too. Today the judge in the Trump case imposed the maximum sentence under NY law–$1.61 million in criminal penalties. Trump’s CEO, Allen Weisselberg is going to jail for 5 months. While Trump was not found personally liable his fingerprints are all over company docs and Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan DA, may well bring criminal charges against Trump.
So I am puzzled. How is it that Biden’s retention of a handful of classified docs should be criminally prosecuted and was just as bad as Trump’s more flagrant refusal to turn over hundreds of top secret docs? Or that the Biden “alleged” influence peddling scandal is somehow worse that Trump’s 15 years of financial fraud? Why the double standard? Just wondering.
The Case last month was against a Trump Executor who Criminally Defrauded Trump enterprises and using an incredibly stupid and bogus legal theory NY Tax Payers.
The theory was stupid because there was no actual harm to Tax payers.
NY AG James is persuing similarly stupid claims of tax avoidance because Trump valued his properties on some documents in ways she did not like. The IRS dictates the rules for valuing properties for Tax purposes. Tax Payers get very limited choices.
They can use the last sale price. Or they can use the municipal tax assessment. That is it.
Of course the whole claim is further stupid because even if businesses could make up any value they wanted, the taxes over the long term would not change. In the end every single tax payer anywhere ever will be taxed on the difference between the price they sell a property for minus the price they paid for the property less depreciation.
If I buy a property for 165K, I depreciate it by 65K, and then Sell it for 400K, I owe taxes on 400K-(165K-65K) or 300K.
Any games I tried to play in the middle will come out in the wash when the property is sold.
It is incredibly disturbing to See the AG of the State of New York and a New York Judge who are either too stupid to know basic tax law that the smallest business owner in the state is familar with, or so politically biased that they knowingly ignore the actual law.
That You would endorse what is either stupidity or corruption is equally disturbing.
This is what political corruption (and incompetence) looks like.
This is NOT a very complex area of Law or Taxes. I can not recall anyone Ever even Trying to game it.
Nor is there any possibility in creation that Trump with an army of lawyers and accountants would have done so.
No accountant in the country would have signed a tax return that did not work as described above.
Nor is this something complex or easily hidden.
Further – the IRS is not after Trump. There is no way Trump violated NY’s tax laws regarding property values without also violating federal law.
This is just another stupid political witch hunt that will inevitably end up with a reversal by a higher court.
Well, Letitia James brought a case against the U.S. Securities and Commission a few years ago challenging the Commission’s authority to enact a regulation that affects registered broker-dealers. I read the complaint and found it to be (in my opinion) pure nonsense. It was tossed and went nowhere. From my perspective, as a taxpayer in New York State, it was a waste of taxpayer dollars. The New York Department of Law fails to address legitimate consumer concerns, yet squanders tax revenues by pursuing nonsensical cases. That’s what you get with one party rule.
Catherine, NYS goes after citizens of high worth when they have or had a home in NY, even if they are residents of other states. They do this knowing the citizen of another state will have to pay tens of thousands to fight them while going through a lot of stress. It is no different from the ambulance chasers looking for a quick buck.
I have no idea how she passed the bar.
What I have read from her is just made up nonsense. Not actual law.
John, it appears leftists do not know anything about depreciating assets. Could it be that they have none? 🙂
Depreciation is just a side issue to all this.
Depreciation merely defers taxes.
If you buy a property for X and sell it for Y, you will ultimately pay taxes on Y-X,
But yes we have a major problem.
The vast majority of people – including professionals, lawyers, judges, reporters.
Have absolutely no knowledge at all about the subject they are casting judgement on.
This is the rule of man not law, and it ends in blood.
That is one of the reasons Bork should have been on the Supreme Court.
I saw a bumper sticker today that said something like “I stand up against Hate”.
And it came to me one of the huge differences between today and when I grew up.
Today the left talks all about hate.
Then it was all about love.
Make love, not war.
All you need is love.
Today’s left likes to go after christians for alleged hypocracy – for not following christ.
But Christ talks about love – not hate.
God is love.
The big deal is not the past focus on love.
Though a return to that would be nice.
But the present focus on hate.
You can not accuse others of hate without darkening your own life.
“I believe that each person is more than the worst thing they’ve ever done,”
Bryan Stevenson, a lawyer and the founder and Executive Director of the Equal Justice Initiative.
I heard a podcast yesterday where one of those speaking said something like.
Ultimately – we do not give Trump the benefit of the doubt because he is not moral.
We give Biden the benefit of the doubt because he is a good person.
And I thought – why do you think Biden is a good person ?
And why do you think Trump is immoral ?
I suspect it boils down to – those on the left beleive everyone who succeeds in business is evil.
I suspect that is envy – because they have not.
John, are we luke warm? lol 😉
I’m starting to believe once again to move further out into the woods.
Luke 22:36
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=luke+22%3A36&ia=web
Speaking Love, Satan’s hated for God’s children listen to this complete lunatic wanna be a God.
Occult & Globalists
Human Sacrifice: Exposing Klaus Schwab’s Engineered Failed State Collapse
Infowars.com
August 24th 2021, 3:19 am
https://www.infowars.com/posts/human-sacrifice-exposing-klaus-schwabs-engineered-failed-state-collapse/
1:31 / 1:46
Outside The Wall
Pink Floyd
3.43M subscribers
I sense I’m in the company of sharp people.
I’m sure you’ve heard of some old Wall street Scams like the “Dead Mule Game”.
When I was a pre-teen I knew that you could only mortgage a piece of collateral one time otherwise it’d be a 2nd mortgage & other rules. But some how those type rules are only for us slaves. To do otherwise was/still is a Felony.
AIG/WFC/JPM/JS/BKA etc.CDS products, it seems they can go to the City of London & pledge that note for One House, Pickup, Ranch, Apartment BLDG, etc., pledge them numerous times to different retirement funds & many other investors.
The nice word the International Banking Trash were hiding behind last time was called Rehypothecation.
So if you take John’s RE math & add in Rehypothecation like ’07-’08 & we end up with another even larger mess this time.
One might think only Satan’s agents could hit us from some many different angles in one era in time.
*****
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=+Rehypothecation&ia=definition
.
A Credit Default Swap is a finacial contract where two parties agree to swap a security for cash under specific conditions.
It is not a second mortgage.
It also had nothing to do with the financial crisis.
The housing bubble was cause by the Fed keeping interest rates too low loo long. The crisis occured in Housing rather than somewhere else because the government both democrats and republicans were actively pushing banks to lend to more and more people for homes.
Low interest rates in crease the amount of credit available, further they cause the price of credit to become increasingly distant from the risk.
This is ALWAYS true when the Fed drives interest rates too low.
Once the housing bubble formed – we were in trouble. There was going to be a crash and ultimately a recession no matter what.
The 2+ years between the start of the housing collapse and the start of the financial crisis speaks to the strength of the financial markets NOT bizzare claims of culpability. I am not a fan of Big anything much less big banks. But it is important to get analysis and blame right.
I would note that Dodd Frank and all the idiotic regulation government imposed as a result had NOTHING to do with the financial crisis.
No one thinks PayDay loans caused the financial crisis. Nothing CFPB is doing has anything to do with the causes of the financial crisis.
Therewas going to ba a recession no matter what as a result of the housing bubble bursting. But there need not have been a financial crisis at all. That WAS caused by the Federal government. The primary – and possible Sole cause was the New in November 2007 Basel II rules and specifically The Mark To Market Rule. A perfect example of something that sounds good if you do not consider the 2nd and 3rd order effects.
Regardless, CDS’s and CDO’s and various derivatives had absolutely nothing to do with the financial crisis.
No bank ever excercised their options with regard to CDO’s and CDS’s, They refused for exactly the same reason they refused TARP I.
Every single Bank knew that the last trade value of MBS’s that had tanked was not their actual value. That they would recover in value very quickly. No one was going to exchange their MBS’s for anything at 25 cents on the dollar.
The Banks did not want to sell their MBS;s to the government. They did not want to excercise their options with the CDO’s and CDS’s that they had essentially insured their MBS’s with. Because their best deal was to wait for the value to be restored.
No sane Banker beleived that the value of US housing had ALL dropped by over 80% – which is what had to be true to make TARP I or opting to execute a CDS or CDO worthwhile.
The government loaned banks money that almost none of them actually needed. Which they all paid back quickly.
Most anyone can find online the information that AIG had by far the largest exposure – over 100B and yet AIG never had to pay out a dime, and made money on the financial crisis. Why ? Because they sold 80% of the CDS’s and they knew from the start no one would ever execute on one.
And that ever if they did – they would be trading $100B in cash for $500B in assets.
Gnite.
WP has been the sh*its for 4 hours or so & I’m done with it screwing up posting everywhere but were I put it.
I know, the WEF/NWO loves me long time. 🙂
Dennis: Turley gets a PAYCHECK to ‘forget” things and ignore the double standard and irony in his attacks on Biden while ignoring far worse conduct from Trump. His advocacy is purchased. Weisselberg, Michael Cohen and Rudy Giuliani are just part of the carnage of the Trump mystique. Weisselberg is doing time at Rikers, Cohen did time and got disbarred, and Giuliani’s suspended law license is in the process of getting permanently revoked. As Rick Wilson says in the eponymous title of his book: “Everything Trump Touches Dies”.
The politicization of everything in America, education, medicine, news media, demographics, ethnicity and race (identity politics) have hurt the poor, the marginalized, the underserved the most particularly the children. This is very tragic and extremely unfair to the very people politicians say they represent.
….coverage with the combined 7-vaccine series among children living below the federal poverty level or in rural areas decreased by 4–5 percentage points during the pandemic. Among children born during 2018–2019, coverage disparities were observed by race and ethnicity, poverty status, health insurance status, and Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) residence
Hill HA, Chen M, Elam-Evans LD, Yankey D, Singleton JA. Vaccination Coverage by Age 24 Months Among Children Born During 2018–2019 — National Immunization Survey–Child, United States, 2019–2021. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 2023;72:33–38. DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.15585/mmwr.mm7202a3.
Estovir: “Bless the beasts and the children…they have no voice, they have no choice.”
“MISPLACED POWER OF THE MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX”
_______________________________________________________
“[The] ‘Deep State’ was invented to fool others and panic them into sending money….”
– georke@227
___________
What a ——- idiot!
Tell that to JFK, MLK, RFK, all of the victims of Peal Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, Flight 800, 9/11, the Obama Coup D’etat in America, Jan. 6 and all the other Deep Deep State black ops.
These events generated monumental, global, historical repercussions and terrible consequences.
_____________________________________________________________________________
“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.”
– Dwight D. Eisenhower, January 17, 1961
__________________________________
How in the world did President Eisenhower obtain full knowledge of the Deep Deep State and come to explicitly warn America of its existence, malice and peril?
Trump obtained advice from the FBI on security for the secured room in which he kept the documents under dispute. He was going through the process with the NA and DOJ on making his argument that A) he had already declassified the documents under his purview as President and B) felt he was entitled to keep them.
I do not know if the security advice he received was on how to create a SCIFF in his residence. Since former Presidents retain clearance, an at-home SCIFF is an option.
Joe Biden’s garage and the closet in his think tank were not SCIFFs. You could see the boxes every time he entered and exited the garage.
The NA knew documents were at Trump’s residence. It was the National Records Office that packed them up and sent them there. By contrast, the government was not aware documents were at Joe Biden’s house or that office, and we have absolutely no idea who packed it up or moved the documents several times.
To be frank, most presidents retain records that the NA then spends months or years chasing down. It is also likely that most former presidents retained documents that could be considered classified or of national interest. Unless those documents are stored in a secured SCIFF in their residences or offices, with the same chain of custody regulations as at SCIFFs in government buildings, then there are security risks.
It is not fair to select any current or past president to target over and above past precedent for political purposes. Anyone who claims that Trump and Biden are treated the same is either mistaken or willfully blind.
Moving forward, there should be a liaison appointed to the President, VP, probably everyone on Intel Committees, and all politicians with clearance, to ensure chain of custody on documents. There needs to be a formal process for sitting presidents to declassify documents, with a paper trail. As of now, there is no formal process. A president can claim he declassified anything. A hostile Congress can claim he’s just lying. Without a paper trail, he or she can’t prove it. The aforementioned liaison should also be in charge of reviewing documents packed up for outgoing Presidents and Veeps. And everyone on Intel Committees, etc. I have a strong suspicion that Congress lives in glass houses on this matter. We all know Hillary Clinton most certainly did, as SOS. This means that ALL politicians in positions of authority with clearance need some review on what they have in their possession. ANYONE using private emails or personal servers needs to be discovered, and the material recovered. It was absolutely ludicrous that our government allowed Hillary Clinton to erase thousands of emails while under subpoena, and just take her twisty word for it that anything of relevance was disclosed. Huma Abedeen’s laptop in the possession of convicted sex offender Anthony Weiner proved that lie.
Moving forward, there needs to be ONE STANDARD for the handling of classified information. If an officer in the military, an FBI agent, or a staff member of the State Department would go to prison for the same behavior, then politicians should not be given special treatment. This cannot be retroactively applied, because clearly this has not been the standard. We need changes. Above every single source of classified information given to Congress, State, DOJ, the President, the VP, et al, should be a copy of those red signs above the SCIFFs in the Pentagon that read, “Are you feeling lonely? Want to talk to someone tonight? Then forget to lock your safe.” Swawell wouldn’t have been compromised if he hand’t had classified information available to his Chinese spy Fang, or the staff she positioned in his office, in the elected position she helped him win.
The problem is that investigatory agencies are politically compromised. Are there any neutral, unbiased people left in 3 letter agencies that could secure our classified information at this point?
Karen – I would give you a “like” but you deserve a stronger pat on the back. Thanks. I have a radical suggestion that will avoid these problems. Abolish the PRA. It was a mean-spirited anti-Nixon law. It has created a partisan monster in the NARA. The old system worked fine.
“Karen”: If the Wall Street Journal calls you, please pick up the phone.
“Trump obtained advice from the FBI on security for the secured room”
He was told that it needed to be secured appropriately (which means a SCIF). He did not secure it appropriately, and some of it was in his office, not the room you’re even talking about.
“He was going through the process with the NA and DOJ on making his argument that A) he had already declassified the documents under his purview as President”
He’s never claimed that in any legal document. Probably because it’s not true, and he doesn’t want to risk the crime of false statements.
“former Presidents retain clearance,”
Whether they do or don’t is up to the current President. Biden ended Trump’s clearance, because Trump is not trustworthy.
“It was the National Records Office that packed them up and sent them there”
Says who?
Look at how many mistakes you have just in your opening paragraphs. Knowing you, you will continue to make false claims about it.
He did not secure it appropriately,
According to what the media is reporting, We have no Idea.
He’s never claimed that in any legal document.
He has not had a need to defend himself in a legal document. No charges filed. We have all learned the Presidents power to declassify is absolute and unreviewable.
Says who?
Your response is much like proof, because you cant find anything different. The President did not call 2 Guys and a Truck to Clean out the White House Office and Living space. It stands to reason a Government agency and agents cleaned out the office. Provide evidence to the contrary.
You claiming mistakes were made is ironic.
(Great job Karen)
“We have no Idea.”
BS. The DOJ explicitly wrote him that “Mar-a-Lago does not include a secure location authorized for the storage of classified information. As such, it appears that since the time classified documents [redacted] were removed
from the secure facilities at the White House and moved to Mar-a-Lago on or around January 20, 2021, they have not been handled in an appropriate manner or stored in an appropriate location.” You either never bothered to read the docs, or you’re purposefully ignoring what they said.
“Provide evidence to the contrary [that NARA packed and moved the documents in question].”
Not my job to prove Karen wrong (https://iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#MisplacedBurden). It’s her job to prove her claim correct.
Obama’s documents are in an everyday warehouse with nothing special. Is that secure? It seems you are telling us that bureaucrats are deciding what is or is not secure based on placing a wet finger up to the wind.
Your arguments are abysmal.
NARA claims you’re wrong:
“The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), in accordance with the Presidential Records Act, assumed physical and legal custody of the Presidential records from the administrations of Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, and Ronald Reagan, when those Presidents left office. NARA securely moved these records to temporary facilities that NARA leased from the General Services Administration (GSA), near the locations of the future Presidential Libraries that former Presidents built for NARA. All such temporary facilities met strict archival and security standards, and have been managed and staffed exclusively by NARA employees. Reports that indicate or imply that those Presidential records were in the possession of the former Presidents or their representatives, after they left office, or that the records were housed in substandard conditions, are false and misleading.”
“NARA claims you’re wrong:”
Check the date of your blurb and then go to Google and find out what we discussed the last time this discussion came up.
You are incapable of learning.
Anonymous:
You said, “Not my job to prove Karen wrong (https://iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#MisplacedBurden). It’s her job to prove her claim correct.”
No one can convince the willfully blind. I don’t need to get you to admit the double standard for Trump and Biden, for the truth to be that there is a double standard.
Your quote from the DOJ involved classified documents. Trump’s argument is that he declassified them, which was his right as President. The handling and storage of unclassified documents is different than for classified documents. Since I did not work at the White House, I do not personally know if Trump did, or did not, declassify documents. What we know is that he had the legal right to do so, and that there is no formal process. Trump’s attorneys were discussing this with the DOJ.
Imagine, for a moment, if there was a laptop from a drug addict child of Trump, who had worked in Ukrainian oil and gas for millions, with no qualifications at all, and that Trump got the Ukraining prosecutor fired, while bragging about the quid pro quo of withholding all US aid until it was done. The laptop had a paper trail of influence peddling. The drug addicts former partner claimed the influence peddling was with Trump, and he had receipts. Imagine if the media dismissed the story until after the election he won. Hmmmm. What would your reaction be? Imagine if Trump was VP, and could not have declassified anything, and there were boxes of classified, SCI, and Top Secret documents found in boxes behind his Vette, and some had been moved to a think tank that dealt expressly in the subject contained in those boxes. Would you be so sanguine if Joe Biden were Donald Trump?
You cannot see the plank in your eye. It’s not my job to remove it. Nor can I, because it’s an irrational bias.
FFS, Karen, the exchange was:
You: “It was the National Records Office that packed them up and sent them there”
Me: “Says who?”
Iowan2: “Provide evidence to the contrary [that NARA packed and moved the documents in question].”
Me: “Not my job to prove Karen wrong … It’s her job to prove her claim correct.”
You, now: “No one can convince the willfully blind.”
You, ALSO, in another comment this evening, admitted that it was NOT NARA and that you meant to say “the General Services Office.” How on earth YOUR mistake leads you to claim that I’m willfully blind is beyond me.
“Trump’s argument is that he declassified them, which was his right as President.”
Again: he NEVER said that in any legal documents. His lawyers have filed MANY documents about this with 3 different courts (Judge Reinhardt, who signed the search warrant; Judge Cannon, who got the case about the Special Master; and the 11th Circuit, who dealt with the appeals in the case before Judge Cannon). His lawyers also exchanged legal letters with the DOJ and NARA.
He can lie to his heart’s content in public. It’s legal to do so. But lying to the court is illegal, which is why he refrains from saying it in legal documents.
* correction: “National Records Office” not NARA
BTW, notice that in the following, you’re actually agreeing with me that Trump did NOT tell the DOJ and NARA (which necessarily would be a statement in a legal document) that he’d declassified the documents with classified markings:
Karen: “He was going through the process with the NA and DOJ on making his argument that A) he had already declassified the documents under his purview as President”
Me: “He’s never claimed that in any legal document.”
You: “He has not had a need to defend himself in a legal document”
Anonymous:
Are you referring to a legal document, such as the OF-109 form that Hillary Clinton was supposed to sign before she left State affirming she had turned over all records? There is some dispute as to whether she ever signed the outgoing form. Or there was the time she told a federal judge that she had turned over all work-related emails to the State Department…before thousands more turned up on Huma’s laptop in the possession of registered sex offender Anthony Weiner. Tell me again how responsible and forthcoming Democrats are with handling classified information.
I do not know if an outgoing US President signs a similar document. There have not been any charges filed, so there couldn’t be any legal briefs. What kind of legal document are you looking for? There is no official process that I’m aware of for a President to declassify documents. He can just say, “I declassify this”. It’s obviously in his best interest to make a record of doing so, in case there is ever a Congress out to find a crime, any crime, to charge him with. Honestly, I think there has been more effort to charge Trump with something, anything, than was made for Al Capone. The IRS even leaked his tax returns, which of course led to no charges, either. It just confirmed he legally rolled losses forward and benefitted from the tax code and highly paid tax attorneys who take the slogan, “Don’t pay a dime more than you owe,” to heart.
I’m saying ANY legal document, Karen: not the ones that Trump’s lawyers sent the DOJ and NARA, not the ones that Trump’s lawyers filed with judges.
“there couldn’t be any legal briefs.”
OMG! Are you not aware of the court cases in front of two different judges about Mar-a-Lago, one of them appealed to the 11th Circuit??
There were LOTS of legal filings. Here you go, read to your heart’s content:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/64911367/trump-v-united-states-government/
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65351635/donald-trump-v-united-states/
courtlistener.com/docket/64872441/united-states-v-sealed-search-warrant/
Anonymous:
Please explain why Joe Biden is trustworthy. Hunter Biden’s laptop has evidence that indicates Joe Biden is suspected of selling political favors as VP for hefty sums to foreign actors. He shows obvious mental decline. Comparing video of him currently, and 15 years ago, shows a severe decline in mental acuity. All he’s capable of at this point is reading a teleprompter. Joe Biden demanded Trump take a mental cognition test, which he did, but Biden refuses to take the test himself.
Joe Biden lied about graduating in the top 50% of his class, getting arrested with Nelson Mandela, his son dying in Iraq, being raised Puerto Rican, marching in Civil Rights protests when in reality he penned a letter saying he didn’t want his sons attending a “racial jungle” school, claimed the Obama Administration didn’t lock people up in cages (it was they who built the chain link holding cells), said he was against the Iraq war, claimed he graduated with 3 degrees from undergraduate school (total falsehood), said he was an outstanding student (graduated 76th in a class of 85 without honors), word for word plagiarized Neil Kinnock, had to beg not to be expelled from lawsuit for plagiarizing a law review article, plagiarized his climate plan during his campaign with copied and pasted sections, claimed he was a professor when in reality he gave a couple of speeches and never taught anyone, lied about visiting a Naval officer in Afghanistan, lied about co-sponsoring the Endangered Species Act…there’s more, but going through my bookmarks is taking too long.
Then there was all the hair sniffing, deep hugs, and massages of children on camera, and fondly reminiscing about having little kids he’s not related to swim over to him in the pool, sit on his lap, and play with his leg hair.
This goes beyond exaggeration and braggadocio. It’s blatant lying and weirdness he seems helpless to stop. George Santos has certainly made a lot of early progress with lying. If he works hard at it, one day, when he’s as old as Biden, perhaps he’ll have as many well-documented total falsehoods. Santos lacks Biden’s toothy grin, though. I don’t know that voters would shrug their shoulders, get amnesia, and keep voting for him like they did for Joe Biden. I don’t think anyone would believe Santos if he said it was raining, while it was raining, but many people actually take Joe Biden’s statements at face value.
Your Rumpy lied over 30,000 times by actual count.
The question is whether you can prove those 30,000 lies or have to admit they are meaningless or have nothing to do with his Presidency.
Let’s try with just the top 10 of them. That should be easy, but you can’t do it. Either Trump lied, and you can prove it, or you are blowing wind.
I didn’t claim Biden is trustworthy, and my opinion about it is totally irrelevant to whether he had a security clearance while out of office. He had one, because Trump apparently thought he was trustworthy enough to retain it.
Anonymous:
It was the General Services Office. I keep replacing “services” with “records” for some reason. Ya got me on the name of the government agency that packed it up. Does it matter what the name of the government agency was, if it was a government agency that packed it up?
From the NYP, prior to the FBI raid:
“Miranda Devine: “The 15 boxes contain documents and mementos from Trump’s presidency, reportedly including letters from Barack Obama and Kim Jong Un and other correspondence with world leaders. The boxes
had been packed up by the General Services Administration and shipped to Mar-a-Lago when Trump left office in January 2020.
Trump’s attorneys, led by Evan Corcoran, had been cooperating fully with federal authorities on the return of the documents to the National Archives and Records Administration, according to sources. In May, Corcoran granted access into Mar-a-Lago’s windowless storage room to FBI agents who spent several hours searching through the boxes. Trump stopped by the basement to say hello at one point, says someone who was there.”
Is that why they needed a search warrant to get them?
Corcoran was NOT cooperating fully. Corcoran is the one who lied to Christina Bobb and had her file a false statement with the DOJ that everything had been returned. Corcoran is one of the attorneys who prevented the FBI from looking in the boxes stored in the storage room. You clearly aren’t paying attention to the details of this case and have ignored what the court documents say.
“He’s never claimed that in any legal document. Probably because it’s not true, and he doesn’t want to risk the crime of false statements.“
ATS, you sound ignorant for someone who acts as if he is a legal hotdog. Lawyers do not make unnecessary claims before a trial, mediation, etc.
You think you can say whatever you wish for temporary benefit but conflicting statements or appearances create conflicting arguments proving you are insincere.
A temporary bolstering of your argument makes everyone know what you are.
Karen S: please stop. The NARA did NOT pack up the 300+ classified documents, of which 60+ were designated as “top secret” and have them delivered to Florida. They wouldn’t have done this. Your initial defense of Trump claimed that he is a ” pack rat” and “poor housekeeper”, that the GSA packed them and that’s how the documents got to MAL. Now, you’re trying to blame the NARA. That won’t work either, because Trump claimed that the documents belonged to him when the NARA demanded their return–he still does, even though he turned part of them over after getting hit with a subpoena because he refused to turn all of them back upon request and his lawyer filed a false affidavit swearing that all had been returned. The lie du jour is that Trump consulted the DOJ–that won’t fly either because if it were true, the DOJ wouldn’t have needed to obtain a search warrant. Trump wouldn’t have turned over some of them upon request, and didn’t move to quash the subpoena–which he would have done if what you claim is true–it’s not–just another lie you believe. The most likely reason Biden’s papers weren’t missed is because they are old. The copies he has may contain classified markings, but may well have been declassified. And, please stop lying about Trump “mentally declassifying” the documents–that is not possible, but if it were, why didn’t his lawyers move to quash the subpoena on this basis, instead of just turning in a few documents and retaining over 15 boxes of others, which required a search warrant?
You’re not qualified to opine on what most presidents do because your source of information is Fox and they constantly lie to defend Trump and accuse Biden of all sorts of things. You’re just trying to soft-pedal Trump’s intentional theft of the NARA documents, his lying about returning them, the false affidavid filed in response to the subpoena, and his fundraising over his own misconduct. Because you are a Fox maven, you aren’t qualified to speak for “our” needs or for the American people. Hillary Clinton was thoroughly investigated by the DOJ, which Trump had control of at the time, and was found not to have engaged in any criminal behavior. Please stop harping about this, which is NO defense to Trump’s intentional theft of papers and lies about returning them.
How many of Trump’s stolen classified documents were leaked or sold to Putin?
How many of the cities experiencing increases in violent crime were caused by George Soros paid District Attorneys “reimagining” criminal law? Tell your handlers you are not one of their better trolls.
You are in La-la land.
Gigi/Natacha:
I didn’t say NARA did it. I mistitled the GSA as NRO because this time I didn’t make the effort to go back to the bookmarked articles.
Trump is entitled to make any argument he wants, and to go through the legal process.
Meanwhile, Joe Biden claimed he never talked to Hunter about his business (proven lie), didn’t know about any classified documents, though some had been moved that dealt with the subject of his think tank. At the time he said he couldn’t understand how anyone could be so stupid to have classified documents in his house…he literally had classified documents in his house.
As President, Trump could declassify anything he wanted, which is certainly relevant to accusations he mishandled classified information. Actually, such accusations are a bit rich coming from the party who defended Hillary Clinton for having a bootleg server on which she kept classified information in order to circumvent the closed State communications and records system, backed it up to the Cloud, had IT work on it without clearance, had everyone over to the house without clearance, lied about it, wiped it with BleachBit while under subpoena, told a federal judge she turned over all work-related emails, and then was caught lying again when thousands of work emails, including classified information, were found on Huma Abadeen’s laptop in the possession of convicted sex offender Anthony Weiner. There’s no moral high ground here, and to claim so is ludicrous.
You can’t pretty this up.
Trump is entitled to “argue” anything he wants–and he does–the problem is that his “arguments” are lies and people like you believe the lies. Again, the problem you don’t understand and apparently don’t want to understand is that citing or parroting what you saw in an “article” with which you agree is “proof” of nothing. Your hero has always maintained that he knowingly took the documents because “they’re mine”. But, NO ONE told him they are his property. No government agency intentionally boxed up our classified documents for removal to Florida. Why would they participate in his theft of the papers and then turn around and demand their return? If he really had a “right” to possess the papers, his lawyer would have moved to quash the subpoena for the production of documents. A subpoena instructs the recipient that they have the right to move to quash the subpoena in whole or in part, but that didn’t happen. He did have legal advice, because his lawyer filed a false affidavit averring that all of the papers with classified markings had been returned–they weren’t–and Trump knew it. Because he just can’t stop lying, he FORCED the NARA to get a search warrant, and did and still is, portraying himself as the “victim” of a “weaponized” government agency–a brand-new Republican talking point, all to defend Trump. If anyone “weaponinzed” the government, it was Trump–he sicced the IRA on James Comey, and they conducted a “deep audit” of his finances, all of which produced nothing but harassment for Comey.
No one cares about Hunter Biden or his business dealings, and there is nothing “proven” about Joe Biden being involved, no matter how many times your media heroes like Graham, Tucker and Hannity harp about it. Where’s the proof? Do you even know what constitutes “proof”? Hunter bragging about acces to his father, if he did so, doesn’t “prove” it happened. Biden voluntarily released his tax returns–where’s the proof he got money from China? Now, if Biden really knew there were documents with classified markings on them at his home or elsewhere, do you think he would have criticized Trump’s intentional theft of the papers? Trump deliberately stole the papers, and knowing what a crook he is and how he tries to leverage things that aren’t his to get his way (like he did with aid to Ukraine–the first impeachment), plus how hard he fought to keep the papers, his refusal to voluntarily turn all of them back, his defiance of a subpoena, and the ongoing litigation, it’s fair to consider that more than his massive ego is at stake here. I believe that he intended to threaten to release copies to Putin, Kim Jong Un, President Xi or others, as a way to leverage his way back into office, to obtain some concessions on his criminal behavior, his tax problems, and the crimes he committed in trying to get Raffensberger to falsify Georgia election returns by “finding” 11,780 votes.
Trump cannot mentally “declassify” top secret or other classified documents. That’s just another made-up lie to cover his deliberate refusal to voluntarily return the documents upon request, upon subpoena, and for moving the documents and boxes around after knowing that the NARA had demanded their return. And, you really, really, need to stop harping about Hillary Clinton. She was investigated by the Trump DOJ and found not to have committed any crimes. There was no disclosure of any national secrets by her use of a private server. YOU are the one who can’t “pretty up” Trump’s arrogance and criminality by “whataboutism”. It won’t fly. Trump took the papers on purpose for reasons that we don’t know, but what we can guess based on his past conduct is truly frightening.
Karen, have you noticed the barrage of proposals coming out of the SEC under the Biden administration? It’s a political agenda to be sure!
Trump did not need to create a SCIF at MAL – there was already one there.
When a person becomes president, the SS Alters their home and surrounds to facilitate security.
Aside from fences. cameras, and the like A separate Office of the President along with secure storage for classified documents is created.
If the president has multiple residences they are going to use during their presidency this is done with all of them.
If the President travels to a foreign country – this is done in some form in the hotel or home that he stays at.
An Office for the president as well as a SCIF exists on Air Force One.
Every where a president goes – a trove of classified documents follow.
I would note that the vast majority of documents anywhere near a president are classified.
The presidents schedul is highly classified – Even the Secretary of States schedule is classified.
One of the reasons that nearly the entire WH is a SCIF and why an entire floor of the State Department is a SCIF is because at the upper tiers of government almost everything is classified.
One of the reasons that security is rigorous at the lower levels and lackadaisical at the upper levels is because almost everyone in the WH has a security clearance and almost everything they touch is classified.
This is also why security coming in and out of the WH is intense. But mostly not within the WH.
“there was already one there.”
Nope. There used to be one there, but it ended when Trump left office.
And if you think there was a SCIF there, then he clearly wasn’t storing these items in the SCIF, since the FBI explicitly noted that they were inadequately secured. Your argument makes no sense.
“Pretty much all documents within the WH are the PERSONAL PROPERTY of the President.”
More of John’s BS. Most documents in the WH belong to the government, not the President.
I’m not going to bother reading the rest of your word vomits.
““there was already one there.”
Nope. There used to be one there, but it ended when Trump left office.”
More left wing nonsense.
Physical space vaporizes with the last words of Biden’s oath of office.
It is the same room, with the same lock, and probably the same secret service agents guarding it,
containing the same documents.
It is exactly as secure today as it was on Jan 20, 2021.
“And if you think there was a SCIF there, then he clearly wasn’t storing these items in the SCIF, since the FBI explicitly noted that they were inadequately secured. Your argument makes no sense.”
The same agent that thinks that what was perfectly adequate as a SCIF 2 years prior magically is “inaddequately secure” today.
You do not seem to understand – the FBI agent is expressing an opinion – a piss poor one. Not a fact.
“More of John’s BS. Most documents in the WH belong to the government, not the President.”
Not according to the courts.
Not according to history.
Where are Clinton’s WH Documents ?
Where are Reagan’s ?
You keep trying to pay word games.
It is almost always possible to find something or someone somewhere who will say what you want.
Reality is determined by FACTS. The purpose of words is to ACCURATELY communicate FACTS.
When they do not – the problem is with the WORDS, not the FACTS.
Most of the left arguments on all of this are NONSENSE.
First, Pretty much all documents within the WH are the PERSONAL PROPERTY of the President.
This has been true to some extent for the entire history of the US.
The PRA was created out of concern that a president leaving office might not have the resources to preserve the records of their presidency.
We have presidential libraries throughout the US. They are ALL private. Not a single one is publicly funded.
The presidential Library of James Buchanon is within 20minutes of my home.
At the conclusion of a presidents tenure, NARA by law becomes the custodian of WH Papers.
Custodian is NOT owner. The ex-president owns the documents.
This is well established by case law since the PRA was enacted.
It is only since Biden was elected that this IDIOTIC argument that NARA Owns and is required to take oposession of ALL presidential documents has magically appeared. This is a legally fictitious argument manufactured by the Director of NARA.
We know the origens of the current Non-sense was the NARA Director watching Trump get onto VM1 as he left the WH the final time and realizing that he was taking boxes of documents with him. And he came up with this idiotic nonsense that these documents were being stolen, and might contain classified information.
No NARA director EVER before has done this. No NARA director has ever asked about Documents at Former presidents homes.
I would note that NARA actually went to court and WON against Judicial Watch for Refusing to retrieve Documents that everyone KNEW were in Bill Clinton’s posession.
The issue of who OWNS WH Documets is settled Law – the president at the time those documents were created owns them.
They own them whether they are classified or not.
There have been numerous legal battles regarding ACCESS to the WH Documents of ex-presidents.
Those issues have been resolved too. The Current President DOES NOT have access to the presidential papers of prior presidents.
Whether those documents are in that presidents possession. NARA’s posession, or the presidential library’s posession.
In Fact NARA has been sued by DOJ/FBI to acquire the documents of prior presidents.
While the current president does NOT have carte blanche access to prior presidents records. The courts have found nearly any reason offered by the current president for access to prior presidents records, as sufficient to grant a court order.
Regardless, despite the broad latitide the courts give to such requests they STILL require a Court order.
The Biden WH can not demand Trump records of NARA or of Trump and get them merely by demanding them.
They must go to court.
NARA can not demand Trump records from Trump. They must go to court – and NARA will likely lose.
This whole mess with Trump proceded the way it did BECAUSE Trump said NO To NARA and Because the NARA/Biden admin lawyers looked at the law and KNEW they would lose.
This whole mess with Trump was a setup that never should have happened.
ex-presidents have WH papers in their homes – they are allowed to.
They have classified documents in their homes – they are allowed to.
If those documents are still classified, the ex-president is obligated to handle those documents carefully.
But that is all.
The situation with Ex-VP’s is more complex.
VP’s have no limitless declassification power.
They have no ownership interest in WH Documents.
I beleive that VP’s are setup with a SCIF and official office in their homes are presidents are – but I am less certain.
Further missing context in this nonsense is that Whether at MAL or even Biden’s VP Home, these documents may not have been moved there during the Transition. They may have been moved there possibly months before the End of Trump or Biden’s term.
As I noted before – Classified (and other) documents follow presidents (and VP’s) all over the place.
Documents could have been brought to MAL or to VP Biden’s home during a visit anytime during their tenure.
Left in the SCIF instead of being returned to Washington. And just been there when their term expired.
It is far more likely than not that documents classified or otherwise arrived at MAL and VP Biden’s perfectly legitimately.
Neither of them STOLE documents.
And so long as they arrived at their homes legitimately – which is far more likely than not.
The only violations of they law involve handling them AFTER their term.
Gigi beleive that documents at MAL were accessible to the Pool Boy.
She has been drinking too much NYT/WaPo Cookaid. But lets assume she is right.
That would be a crime.
She beleive Trump stole Classified documents – From himself ?
But Biden magically acquired them inadvertantly ?
I understand your frustration with the mishandling of classified documents by our political elites.
But this is likely not a fixable problem.
First thought the 11th appeals court ignorantly rejected that – the FACT is that constitutionally presidents are Unique – and Frankly MUST be.
The person at the head of the US government MUST have the freedom to declassify documents as they find necescary.
That is just inherent in the job.
Bu the next issue is that there is almost nothing that goes on within 30ft of the president that is not classified.
The presidents schedule is classifed, Every conversation with or about a world leader is classified.
It is probably not possible to function as president without the president themselves having little or no regard for what is and is not classified.
At the very best, we would have to depend on those surrounding the president to deal with carefully handling classified materials.
Even that would likely make it very difficult for the WH to function.
I recall someone in the military once telling me that the worst duty was in Korea at the DMZ.
Being stationed at the DMZ in Korea meant being essentially on a war footing all the time.
AND it meant conforming to all the spit and polish regulations of a peace time military at the same time.
All those rules and rigidity exist to build discipline. But in the event of a war, commanders do not give a $hit if your boots are polished.
At the bottom of government classified material is usually handled with religious care.
The further up the ladder you climb the less rigorous that care is.
Some of that decline in discipline is actually necescary – or the top levels of government could not function.
But we can not have rules or laws that make conduct at the bottom a crime but at the top part of a normal days work.
I personally believe Clinton should have been prosecuted – no so much because she violated the espionage act – which she did egregiously.
But because she did so, so egregiously and carelessly that she with near certainty put lives and national security at risk.
Thousands of classified documents were bare ass naked on the internet.
What she did, she did knowingly – She did not bring classified folders home and forget them.
She knowingly and deliberately and actively sought to evade, avoid and circumvent security measures – and she either knowingly or recklessly left that content with little of no security.
I beleive that the Biden matter needs investigated – did the chinese or anyone else gain access tot he material at Biden Center ?
Did Hunter gain access to the material in the Garage with the Corvette and if so did he do anything wrong with it ?
But beyond those investigations. And the well deserved political consequences. And frankly being b***h slapped repeatedly for massive hypocracy. Ultimately the matter should be dropped.
With respect to Trump, absent evidence that actually classified documents left the presidents residence at MAL or that they were provided to foreign powers, the Trump matter should be completely dropped and quickly.
Trump was not investigating the crap out his enemies over handling of classified materials. Biden was. Hypocracy is the greatest sin.
The real story regarding Biden is NOT the classified documents – but the weaponizing the federal govenrment politically
INCLUDING hypocritically going after Trump.