Below is my column on how the upcoming election could play out with three different criminal cases in New York, Georgia, and Washington, D.C. This morning we are reading new leaks from the Justice Department’s grand jury investigation. It is another disheartening example of intentional leaks in violation of federal law and DOJ policies. The federal judge in the case seems entirely unconcerned about the violations that are clearly meant to undermine former president Donald Trump and pressure witnesses.
Here is the column:
The 2024 presidential campaign technically began months ago with the first announced candidates. Yet April 4 will be “Super Tuesday” for America’s first carceral presidential campaign, with the arrest and arraignment of Donald Trump. With the exception of the socialist (and incarcerated) Eugene Debs in 1920, we have not faced the prospect of a president who could be elected with both a term of office and a term of imprisonment.
The New York indictment of Trump has been widely criticized as politically motivated and legally flawed. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg boasted during his 2021 campaign about being best suited to go after Trump, and he is making good on his boast with a highly dubious bootstrapped legal theory.
The New York indictment will face considerable challenges. Those challenges will likely take some time to resolve, and if this case follows the customary schedule of criminal matters, it still may be pending when Americans go to the polls to select the next president in 2024.
In addition, a Georgia grand jury reportedly has finished its work on other charges against Trump. Weeks ago, Emily Kohrs, the forewoman of that special grand jury, gave a series of bizarre giggling interviews about nailing Trump. It is a mystery, given Kohrs’ apparent confirmation of pending charges, why Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has held back on an indictment.
Although stronger than the Manhattan case, the Georgia case has its own problems but could make it to trial because those problems are largely fact questions generally left to jurors. But it too would likely be pending by Election Day 2024.
The most serious threat among the potential cases is being developed by Justice Department special counsel Jack Smith. His investigation of Trump’s role in the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol riot is unlikely to result in charges and, if it does, is unlikely to survive challenges on First Amendment grounds. His investigation of the Mar-a-Lago classified-documents controversy presents a far more established — and, frankly, easier — route for prosecution. From its earliest filings, the Justice Department maintained there is evidence of obstruction and false statements — claims that it could use to distinguish any prosecution from the unlawful possession of classified material by President Joe Biden or former Vice President Mike Pence.
Smith is under a tight schedule if he wants to charge Trump, though. Since the Justice Department (incorrectly in my view) maintains that a sitting president cannot be indicted, Smith would have to charge and, ideally, try Trump before Election Day. Indeed, the Justice Department strives to avoid any major legal steps that might impact voting near to an election — a period that could stretch back to the late summer of 2024.
What this means is that Trump could face as many as three sets of criminal charges in three different jurisdictions as he campaigns for the presidency. He would likely seek accommodations from courts to delay any trial during the campaign.
Whether or not Trump can delay a trial, much of 2024 will be focused on carceral rather than political issues. Trump has long claimed that Democrats are weaponizing the criminal justice system against him and other Republicans. Bragg has given him the case positive for proving that allegation, especially since Bragg ran for office on his ability to find a criminal charge against Trump.
The question is what happens if any of these efforts succeed.
I previously raised the prospect of an actual indictment in converting the election into a debate for presidential self-pardons. Article II of the Constitution states that a president may “grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.” There is no language specifying who may or may not be the subject of a pardon, and presidents have abused the pardon power to protect political allies and even family members.
Numerous legal analysts have argued those constitutional provisions “make no sense if the president could pardon himself.” Yet it seems highly doubtful that courts would agree. Despite the massive gravitational pull of Trump on the legal analysis of many pundits, there is nothing in the Constitution to exclude presidents alone from pardon eligibility. The Supreme Court stated in Schick v. Reed that “the pardoning power is an enumerated power of the Constitution and … its limitations, if any, must be found in the Constitution itself.”
While a newly elected Trump could only pardon himself for the federal crimes, it is the federal case that likely represents the greatest threat to him. Moreover, the two state cases would add to Trump’s narrative of facing ‘political prosecutions’ from a ‘weaponized’ legal system on every level. Trump often campaigns on just such a primal level. He knows that a man chased by a dog can spark public outcry — but a man chased by a pack of dogs can spark public outrage.
It is not simply the election that could take a carceral turn, however.
What would happen if Trump were elected but convicted in either state case? Such a trial would likely occur after the election. Even if courts extended a trial until after the 2024 election, it would be difficult to delay it for four years.
The last time a president faced the threat of a criminal trial was in 1872, when Ulysses S. Grant was arrested for speeding in his horse-drawn carriage in Washington.
I have long maintained that a sitting president can be indicted and tried. Almost 25 years ago, I wrote an academic work, “‘From Pillar to Post’: The Prosecution of Sitting Presidents,” that challenged immunity theories protecting presidents. I do not believe the indictment of a president or former president is a national tragedy. To the contrary, it is the ultimate affirmation that no one is above the law.
However, that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t get weird if Trump loses in court but wins in the election.
If Trump were convicted in a state proceeding, it would not bar him from running — or serving — as president. A state judge could grant probation or an alternative sentence to avoid imprisonment. Moreover, appeals on the issue of incarceration could take years to address a state order conflicting with the performance of a federal function. Once that time was exhausted, a court could order any incarceration to be delayed until after the end of the presidential term, since Trump could not be elected a third time.
We may have to face one of these scenarios. The question is whether voters may not only accept this prospect but some might even invite it. Regardless of how it works out, this election is about to take a carceral turn.
Elections often raise the politics of crime — but in this election, it may be hard to separate the politics from the crime.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at The George Washington University. Follow him on Twitter @JonathanTurley.
Oh my oh my, our leftist posters are now saying that no one is above the law. It is a crime to protest at the place of residence of a Supreme Court Justice but our comrades on the left have no interest in having the law prevail in this instance. It is a crime to leak the findings of a Grand Jury in order protect the rights of the accused but we hear no calling for justice to be employed in pursuit of these leakers. It is a crime to represent a foreign government without registering as a foreign agent but the son of a Vice President can work for China without registering as a foreign agent and the calls for justice can not be found. It is obvious that our comrades on this blog have absolutely no respect for equal justice under the law. It’s comes as no surprise when the evidence without question shows that they have no respect for the very first law in the constitution. Now they can somehow justify saying that no one is above the law when they have refused to apply justice to members of their own tribe. It’s not hard to understand. When Trump came in he said “your fired” to the swamp creatures and they have been hissing at him with their forked tongues ever since.
Oh my oh my, our leftist posters are now saying that no one is above the law.
Think, it is abundantly clear what they’re saying is no one is above their law.
Olly, correctamundo the leftist comrades declare that the letter of the law must be applied but they can’t find one letter of the alphabet when it comes to their own. The letters that they missed on the test in school were, E-T-H-I-C-S. They abandoned this principle very long ago.
You lie frequently. It’s one of your favorite ways of trolling. You failed the ethics test you introduce here.
Olly, correctamundo the leftist comrades declare that the letter of the law must be applied but they can’t find one letter of the alphabet when it comes to their own.
Think, that is spot on. It’s sadly hilarious that the below definition of a foreign agent falls under TITLE 22—FOREIGN RELATIONS AND INTERCOURSE The fact is that the Biden crime family has been profiting off Joe Biden pimping out our country.
(c) Expect as provided in subsection (d) of this section, the term ‘‘agent of a foreign principal’’ means—
(1) any person who acts as an agent, representative, employee, or servant, or any person who acts in any other capacity at the order, request, or under the direction or control, of a foreign principal or of a person any of whose activities are directly or indirectly supervised, directed, controlled, financed, or subsidized in whole or in major part by a foreign principal, and who directly or through any other person—
(i) engages within the United States in political activities for or in the interests of such foreign principal;
(ii) acts within the United States as a public relations counsel, publicity agent, information-service employee or political consultant for or in the interests of such foreign principal;
(iii) within the United States solicits, collects, disburses, or dispenses contributions, loans, money, or other things of value for or in the interest of such foreign principal; or
(iv) within the United States represents the interests of such foreign principal before any agency or official of the Government of the United States; and
(2) any person who agrees, consents, assumes or purports to act as, or who is or holds himself out to be, whether or not pursuant to contractual relationship, an agent of a foreign principal as defined in clause (1) of this subsection.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2009-title22/pdf/USCODE-2009-title22-chap11-subchapII.pdf
When one considers religion one notes a religious person has faith. I believe you are a Christian of faith and ATS is a leftist of faith. You differ in many things but the major one is that in obtaining your goals you have morality. ATS has none.
That is why over 100 million were killed in the 20th century outside of war by the leftists. ATS will argue against this assessment but it is abundantly clear that ATS doesn’t have the slightest idea what morality is.
I haven’t read comments from ATS since I gave up arguing with idiots. We could write their comments for them, but they couldn’t write ours. To borrow from Melvin Udall in As Good As It Gets; just take away reason and accountability.
“I haven’t read comments from ATS since I gave up arguing with idiots. “
You are smart, but I have to play with ATS and others. I am considering writing a book, How to Blog with Idiots and Stay Sane’. ATS would be a major player and lead the idiot faction, while Svelaz would hold the position of Chief Drooler.
TiT as usual is lying to cover up his inadequacies in understanding issues.
It is not a crime to protest at at residence of a Supreme Court justice as long as it’s done from a public sidewalk and within reasonable loudness or time.
It’s not really criminal leak grand jury findings if the grand jury already finished it’s inquiry. It’s inappropriate, but not really criminal.
To register as a foreign agent you have to be lobbying on behalf of the government. Hunter Biden was not required to register under FARA as a private citizen.
“It’s comes as no surprise when the evidence without question shows that they have no respect for the very first law in the constitution.”
What evidence is that? You don’t show us the evidence you say exists. Show us the evidence.
It is not a crime to protest at at residence of a Supreme Court justice as long as it’s done from a public sidewalk and within reasonable loudness or time.
There is a specfic federal law, the pertains to federal Judges. Nothing in the law has the language you use.
As always, making claims with no supporting facts.
We all know he (it?) makes it up as he goes along. Just ignore it (him?)
Go Trump
Yeah–Go Trump–straight to the slammer where you belong.
Dem scripted talking points memo has been circulated:
Trump arraignment “serious,” “somber,” “solemn,” “it is a serious, somber, solemn moment”
Trump arraignment a “serious … sober process”
Cont’d: “If you want to say something, say … ‘No one is above the law’ … ‘Trump will be able to avail himself of the legal system’ … That is how the judicial system is supposed to work. And a functioning judicial system is vital to a thriving democracy.”
The narrative machine.
Big government feeds the story and big tech and big media back it up….always in service to Democrats.
Scripts with talking points circulated daily.
Rinse and repeat.
The truth?
It was Hillary and Russian collusion. Not Trump.
It is the Biden family crimes and corruption. Not Trump.
It was Obama illegally spying on their political opponent. Not Trump.
But repeat their lies enough, over and over again on Fake News TV….
….then the public will believe it.
Ooh Trump must be guilty of something big. HE was indicted. This is historic. No one is above the law!
Oh but not a peep in the Fake News about Biden or his family corruption going on for decades.
Not a peep. And there’s plenty to report on. But nope. Not a bit of air time given to THAT ‘news.’
Filthy Democrat party. Filthy fake news media. Both are Pure evil.
Anyone supporting this prosecution is endorsing the complete political corruption of the judicial system.
Name one other example of a case like this in the entire history of the United States.
LOL — Garbage Fox is doing OJ-style coverage of this farce.
Ah, the breathless thrill of the low-speed chase.
Breaking News! The plane is in the air! The plane is in the air!
“They asked us to stand down”: Ex-Manhattan DA says Trump DOJ intervened in Stormy Daniels probe”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/they-asked-us-to-stand-down-ex-manhattan-da-says-trump-doj-intervened-in-stormy-daniels-probe/ar-AA19qroH?cvid=13b08321e83144f2bb4913795bd1013f&ei=12
Looks like GiGi was right. Will JIm Jordan’s government weaponization committee be investigating Trump’s former AG Barr?
“Former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti described the DOJ intervention as an “odd request” given that the “SDNY did not indict Trump or anyone else after that point.”
“Did then-Attorney General Barr play any role in that request? Did Trump?” Mariotti wondered”
it wouldn’t be surprising given how Jim Jordan has tried to interfere with the NY DA by demanding he appear before his committee and provide his evidence against Trump before the trial or any charges are applied. Trump had every incentive to use the DOJ to block that investigation. Trump is already facing obstruction of Justice charges in the classified documents case. He clearly has a pattern of obstructing or wanting to obstruct justice when investigations get too close to the truth regarding his alleged crimes.
Svelaz: thanks. I heard about Barr asking them to stand down several weeks ago, and I’m by no means an insider, so I have to wonder why Turley keeps harping about the Manhattan DA previously declining to prosecute Trump, even though it prosecuted Cohen, when he seemingly should also know that Barr is the reason. I can only surmise that he knows the disciples aren’t aware that Barr told them to stand down, so he throws in the argument that the DOJ and Manhattan DA’s Office declined to prosecute Trump to bolster the Fox claim that this is proof that there’s no merit to Bragg’s indictment of Trump. Turley also wrote a couple of pieces about dissention within the Manhattan DA’s office over indicting Trump, and predicted it wouldn’t, again, to imply there’s no merit, but it turns out Turley is wrong. Turley also harps about Bragg running on a promise to bring Trump to justice–as if this is a bad thing. Bragg was elected based on this promise–what does that tell you? Plus, he had to know there would be death threats, need for added security and lots of criticism and unfair accusations–but he proceeded to carry out the will of the citizens who elected him anyway. The citizens who elected him want him to prosecute Trump–why doesn’t Turley write about that? Turley, Fox and Trump disciples miscalculate just how unpopular Trump is, and just how sick of him most Americans are. We don’t want to hear any more about how he really won in a “landslide”, that he was the victim of a “rigged election”, or any of the other nonsense his ego requires in lieu of admitting he lost in a free and fair election. The rest of us know we can’t steal classified documents, falsify documents, lie to the FBI, violate campaign laws or file false affidavits and get away with it. We also expect the losing candidate for an election to be gracious, to accept the will of the voters and move on–things Trump is incapable of doing because of his ego. Plus, he fundraises over all of the hoopla he caused. Why won’t he just shut up and go away if he really is a patriot as he claims to be? How many times does America have to reject him before he catches on?
Gigi we know Turley has a nasty habit of telling half-truths to fit his narrative. It shouldn’t be a surprise.
‘SVELAZ’ never disappoints with his smearing trolls… pathetic.
“They asked us to stand down”: Ex-Manhattan DA says Trump DOJ intervened in Stormy Daniels probe”
I’ll wait for the evidence. Vances, stand alone claim, is just that. An undocumented claim.
“From its earliest filings, the Justice Department maintained there is evidence of obstruction and false statements — claims that it could use to distinguish any prosecution from the unlawful possession of classified material by President Joe Biden or former Vice President Mike Pence.”
How will DOJ distinguish between the indictment of candidate 2024 Trump on obstruction, false statements, and possession of classified documents from the pass candidate Clinton got in 2016?
If Trump is indicted, the indictment will help you understand the differences.
What a foolish statement which lacks any common sense whatsoever.
Dear Prof Turley,
Notwithstanding any extraneous OLC ‘memo’s’ to the contrary, if there is enough evidence to ‘indict’ a sitting president, there should be enough evidence to Impeach a sitting president. .. from which there is no appeal or pardon afaict.
Where Trump might argue, understandably, there are too many impeachments, I say there are far too few.
*one can only hope they ‘weaponize congress’ soon .. . before Biden kills us all.
It was a smart move legally and politically for Trump to officially enter the race prior to any indictments. Legally, any indictment would immediately be perceived as a political attack, regardless of the merits of the indictment(s). Politically, it would energize his base and begin to stir the interests of the typically apathetic, much earlier in the electoral season. It accomplishes one more thing for a reason that is truly Trump-like and one that is not. He consumes media attention like a black hole. Love him or hate him, he is the political news cycle. Nikki Haley announced, Asa Hutchinson announced and still the focus is on Trump. Certainly others will enter the race and as long as Trump is still in it, he will draw the fire away from any of the others. Then when the time is right, DeSantis enters the race and Trump endorses him.
Then I wake up.
“as long as Trump is still in it, he will draw the fire away from any of the others.”
Olly, many months ago my bet was Trump would withdraw, but now I don’t think he will unless illness or the like is involved. Republicans should not do the dirty work of Democrats causing the Republican candidates to fight with one another. They should wait for the right time. Presently Trump is the bullet proof vest of potential Republican candidates. This makes them and the party stronger.
DeSantis is a strong candidate but unknown to many people in the country. I would prefer a Trump Presidency at this time because so much needs to be broken up. Then I would like DeSantis who I believe has excellent skills.
The only reason why Trump chose to run again is because he mistakenly believed that by becoming a candidate he would be immune from indictment or prosecution. Clearly he is wrong and is just now finding out that he can be found guilty and can be sent to prison if he’s found guilty before the election. Even Turley implies that Trump is very likely to end up in jail and still be elected president. If he goes to jail in state charges he can’t pardon himself. He would have to give up his power as president and let the VP take over. Trump would never allow that.
“The only reason why Trump chose to run again is because he mistakenly believed that by becoming a candidate he would be immune from indictment or prosecution. “
Dumb.
DeSantis is a strong candidate but unknown to many people in the country. I would prefer a Trump Presidency at this time because so much needs to be broken up.
Seth, interestingly, it is Trump that is making DeSantis known. And with a book on the #1 best seller list, people are able to learn more about the man. The country desperately needs the plan Trump’s team has put together. It would also put him at war with his own Executive branch. It’s a plan fit for a lame duck President that is accustomed to being attacked. And if it bares fruit, the next general election would be a perfect fit for DeSantis.
https://www.axios.com/2022/07/22/trump-2025-radical-plan-second-term
Olly: the majority of Americans NEVER preferred a Trump presidency, in 2016, in 2020, and won’t in 2024, a fact that just bounces off of his supporters like you. Trump is immune to reality, too, claiming “the only way we lose is if the election is rigged”. Uh, no, Donnie–the only way you could win is if the election is rigged. Trump didn’t, doesn’t and never will respect the majority of Americans, and everything he says and does is calculated to appeal to his base–to keep the cheering dumbaxxes coming to rallies and donating money. The majority of us don’t like De Santis or the things he stands for, either.
Gee, I guess that explains why nearly 75% think the country is headed in the wrong direction under Biden’s regime.
Thanks Olly, I did a very quick scan because I am familiar with this. The bureaucracy employment laws must be changed number 1. That is how businesses run their corporations. If they don’t do that the corporations generally fail. That doesn’t mean unions and employee rights shouldn’t be protected.
If there is anything you think shouldn’t exist
I trust your understanding of this, Seth. The plan is titled by Axios as radical. But if you look up the definition of radical, it is exactly what is needed to restore the Executive branch to its constitutional purpose. The current massive, federal bureaucracy is a radical creation (think Frankenstein) by progressives in both major political parties. It is a force multiplier to a minority movement hostile to any individual, group, or organization holding the values, traditions and customs that built this great country. They are in effect Antifa, but under the flag of the U.S. government.
DeSantis will be rejected by many for not supporting Trump, conservatives and the ideology; his path should have been VP, then President for eight years. DeSantis will be skewered as Trump has been and Trump supporters will love it. 2020 was the hill to die on. America, the Constitution and the conservative party are dead. The communists are bringing in 2 million democrat voters annually. In California, they run two democrats and no republicans for every office. The communist Deep Deep State “Swamp” will ensconce Michelle Obama. DeSantis will become a fool, a court jester.
Wondering how swiftly justice will move to indict the current sitting president….for espionage to start with.
Biden took part in foreign bribery schemes while VP and there is clear evidence of a money trail implicating the big guy himself.
Biden’s financial crimes affect both foreign policy and national security of the country.
Biden continues to lie to the American people.
Biden continues turning his back on the press asking him questions.
Who will hold Biden accountable?
Impeach, indict. do whatever needs to be done to move forward swiftly.
Because no one is above the law, right?
Bribery schemes? Nobody has presented any evidence to prove your claim to be true. All that has been offered are vague allegations involving legal transactions.
What is your evidence about these alleged crimes?
You just need probable cause and there’s plenty of it.
A grand jury can indict a ham sandwich as we just saw in NYC.
Biden is the next ham sandwich.
And here’s the kicker….the Bidens actually committed real crimes.
There is smoking gun evidence that the Bidens were on Chinese and Ukrainian oligarchs’ payrolls.
Prosecutors are about to get real creative.
You’ll have to wait to read about it in Biden’s indictments.
Because no one is above the law, right?
“And here’s the kicker….the Bidens actually committed real crimes.”
What crimes are those? Under what statutes? You keep saying “crimes” but never mention exactly what those crimes are. Name one and provide clear and convincing evidence of it.
“You just need probable cause and there’s plenty of it.”
Name one. Just one should suffice. Can you name one at all?
What are Trump’s alleged crimes? Not using campaign funds to settle a private dispute?
There’s plenty of evidence to move full speed ahead bringing charges against Biden and his crime family.
They can also pursue Biden for war crimes.
War crimes is a non-partisan issue to get the ball rolling. Then move on to Biden’s espionage.
Because no one is above the law, right?
“There’s plenty of evidence to move full speed ahead bringing charges against Biden and his crime family.”
What evidence? You can’t cite any evidence. I must be clear and convincing evidence to call it a crime. So what is this evidence you keep saying is plentiful? Name one piece of evidence that constitutes a crime that Joe Biden committed.
I would vote for a ham sandwich before I would vote for Biden.
If it comes down to a re-hash of Biden-Trump 2020 in 2024, I would vote Trump.
Even if he was in jail.
And you’re free to have that opinion, but most Americans do not want Trump in office again: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/six-10-americans-dont-want-trump-president-again-2024-poll
Most Americans don’t want any leftist running the government. Most Americans prefer honesty and ethics. You and the left provide none of either.
How long do you have? Briefly, most all the pressing ‘problems’ facing the nation Biden identified in his recent SOTU address, he helped create. The State of the Union is 90 seconds away from Doomsday.
One could start with Nord Stream pipelines that Biden & co. blew up. That’s either an act of war or state terrorism. Or both. .. can you imagine the hew & cry if Putin/Russia blew up 40% of the energy infrastructure flowing into North America!?
*of course, Biden’s only legitimate excuse is insanity-mental incapacity .. . so, I’d start with Article 25.
…”Because no one is above the law, right?”…
Wrong – The Machine(s) are above the Law.
[Now New & Improved with Artificial Intelligence]
The Military Industrial Machine,
The Intelligence Community (IC) Machine,
The Banking Industrial Machine,
The Wall Street Financial Machine,
The DNC/RNC Machine,
The Media Machine, …
Individuals are not above the Law but the Machines keep churning and churning away with impunity to the Law.
We are the BORG, you will be assimilated.
Democrats are moving us from rule of law….to rule of men…..to rule by machines.
Do not fall for it.
And indict Obama for illegally spying on Trump before and after he was duly elected.
‘Anonymous’ from the Light Side (‘Wondering how swiftly justice will move..’ ) ..well said … it’s crazy the way Biden’s lawyers got to go thru his Classified docs & determine nothing was there… but Trump got an FBI raid with guns.. At any rate, according to the excellent research by Peter Schweizer, VP Biden has committed TREASON, plain & simply yet ‘Justice’ is more interested in Trump’s long gone hooker getting paId (..unlike Clinton’s long history of that…) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRmlcEBAiIs (ignore the troll ‘Svelaz’ who is always sleep-walking in a fantasy world…)
Lawyers are prepping Trump not to pull any stunts in court. Especially during the swearing in ceremony.
Frankly, I am getting bored with the efforts to arrest Trump. All “theories” of criminal liability are so stupid it degrades any legal analyst trying to explain it. Regardless of the Rube Goldberg apparatus constructed to formulate a viable theory, they are all so tenuous and tendentious that “no reasonable prosecutor” would ever bring these charges, as one famous deep state operator once said. I get it, the republic has been destroyed. We live in an empire of lies. Lawfare, lawfare, lawfare, until your political opponents cry Uncle. And it is not just Trump.
Say, Professor Turley has been quiet on the Mackey meme conviction. That seems to me to have some First Amendment implications. Why the silence?
I don’t believe trump stays in the presidential race long. No doubt his lawyers are urging him to get out as he can’t control his inflammatory comments in the press, all of which make it harder to defend him as he creates new crimes everyday through his threatening and intimidation tactics…
Thing is, trump is a failed business man and really only makes money through fundraising now. Ivanka, who ran the licensing of trump’s name on properties, is becoming fully estranged, and it’s my guess she marched right into the FBI and asked them what she could do to stay out of jail on January 22, 2021. So she’s not working overtime to make trump money and keep him from groping staffers in the oval office.
Chances are that trump goes the way of Spiro Agnew…, rage against his enemies and then unceremoniously back away from electoral politics soon thereafter only to become a professional anti semite and accuse Nixon of trying to have him killed some years later. Trump will ultimately end up on home confinement and still trying to raise money from his followers, albeit at a much smaller scale. Some on this blog will continue to donate money to him then.
Those practical considerations aside…, trump looks to be in awful shape now. I think his prognosis for his overall health is not exactly awesome. The reason he folds his arms over his gut all the time, wears long ties and the darth vader black overcoat is he’s super conscious of the extra weight he’s carrying. He’d do well to withdraw from the public eye, dedicate to getting healthier and mending fences from the destruction he’s caused for his family and let the country heal from the divisiveness his rhetoric caused.
The above response sounds like a person who knows less than ATS.
Guess you did not see the Trump rally in Waco TX?
Trump is looking slimmer and ready to rumble.
The crowd was slimmer, not trump. People lost interest in his ranting 30 min into his speech and left. His “base” is shrinking, fast. All that will be left are the wackos and nut jobs who keep sending him I money like they would if Trump were a prosperity gospel preacher. For $5 you can be miraculously be healed by placing your hands on the TV screen.
Lol!!! Totally true.
I don’t know that Trump was “slimmer” in Waco. If you wish to approximate size of crowds proportionally compare the crowds for Biden and Hillary.
“trump looks to be in awful shape now. I think his prognosis for his overall health is not exactly awesome.”
If that’s the standard, then your Alzheimer’s patient should abdicate, and your half-brain-dead “senator” should never have run.
The Democrats unending and relentless pursuit to destroy Donald Trump has many dedicated followers and will never stop. They will justify anything, including bypassing the Constitution citing “safety concerns” which course Merrick Garland will quickly endorse. Hopefully, most Americans will see the incredible double standard of justice as this plays out. Thank you, Jonathan, for an excellent article.
Double standard? It’s par for the course. Republicans went after Hillary Clinton for decades before Trump’s alleged “persecution”. Trump is just experiencing what republicans have always done for years. Investigation after investigation trying to find anything to pin on her. Ironically that’s exactly what they are doing with Hunter Biden right now. Clearly it’s not a double standard. Its’ business as usual for republicans. The only difference is that they don’t like being subjected to the same thing they love to do to others. I think that’s called hypocrisy.
🤡
April 4, 2023, “Super Indictment Tuesday” a date that will live in infamy – United States of America was seditiously and deliberately attacked internally by the political forces of the United States Democratic Party (DNC).
“ It is a mystery, given Kohrs’ apparent confirmation of pending charges, why Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has held back on an indictment.”
It’s likely she’s waiting for the NY indictment and arraignment to move through before issuing her own charges. But make no mistake they are coming and with them a slew of more gag orders for Trump or even more evidence not yer shown to the public. Give it some time, the wheels of justice move slowly but surely. It would give Trump supporters in Congress more excuses to interfere with investigations and threaten DA’s on his behalf. Should be start chanting, “LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP!”? Thanks to Trump that wouldn’t be out of the ordinary. It would actually be appropriate.
Svelaz – I note how excited you get by “a slew of more gag orders for Trump”. Your earlier comment also mentioned gag orders. You are showing how censorship is at the heart of the Democrat worldview and strategy these days.
Edward, gag orders are common in the judicial system and they have a specific purpose. Trump is being treated just like any other person facing charges in court. Given Trump’s previous attempts to intimidate or try to influence potential jurors. A judge will certainly impose a gag order on trump and his lawyers.
This form of ‘censorship’ has is completely legal. Even Turley knows a gag order would be entirely appropriate for a judge to impose on trump.
Svelaz, your rhetoric looks like you are ordering off a Chinese menu. Pick a word from column A, B, and then C. It works for a Chinese meal, but in debate it fails. I-fling-Sh!t is not adequate.
S. Meyer, are you offering anything constructive other than juvenile insults? You don’t seem to have anything of value to offer. You don’t engage in debate. You just hurl insults and hide behind anonymous posts because you are too cowardly to use your own blog handle.
Svelaz, I made it abundantly clear that in debate you act as a jerk who knows nothing and lies all the time. Yu-fling-sh!t too often.
Again, S. Meyer you still offer nothing of value. It’s pretty sad that all you have left is insults. You offer nothing of any substantive value to the discussion at all.
Svelaz, you are a nincompoop who lies and can’t stay on track. No, I will not provide substance to a jerk until you learn how to read what others are saying. If you want substance from me, don’t look at my replies to you, look elsewhere. You aren’t worth replying to. Why others try to make sense of what you say would be beyond me, but for the fact they inform less educated folk that people like you don’t know sh!t. ,
Anonymous (S. Meyer the coward) says, “No, I will not provide substance to a jerk until you learn how to read what others are saying.”
You don’t provide anything of substance. That’s the problem. All you have to offer are insults.
“You aren’t worth replying to. Why others try to make sense of what you say would be beyond me, but for the fact they inform less educated folk that people like you don’t know sh!t.”
Yet you have replied multiple times because you can’t help yourself, because you have this unhealthy need to insult others when you don’t have an argument or any opinion with substance to offer. You sound like one of Trump’s incompetent lawyers.
“Anonymous (S. Meyer the coward) says, “No, I will not provide substance to a jerk until you learn how to read what others are saying.”
Look, you nincompoop. No one should have to be bothered by your cr-p. I sometimes stay anonymous with you because it is not worth the time for me or anyone else. I used my initials a couple of times because I wanted to make sure that as stupid as you are, you would know the response came from me.
I sent you one email showing you repeatedly failed to read what was sent, which included many postings of the same links from the government agency. That proved you were a jerk. You made me respond to the same question and send out the same links multiple times. That email was one example. I sent it so others know what a nitwit and liar you are. They can judge my content by reading it themselves. No one in their right mind would take direction from you, a functional idiot.
I reply with the fact when warranted, and I did so to you, but you didn’t respond which shows everyone what type of garbage you spew and your lack of concern with the truth.
You deserve insult, and I wish more people would do so. If they did, perhaps it would help clean the sh!t from the blog.
SM
“You just hurl insults and hide behind anonymous posts because you are too cowardly to use your own blog handle.”
Svelaz, I don’t know why anyone responds to you absent derision. I have posted how you waste people’s time and can’t seem to post without conflicting with one you wrote earlier.
Then there is the problem of you repeatedly lying about what others have said. I’ll refer to one exchange which explains why no one should give you the time of day.
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/01/21/the-other-big-lie-democrats-fuel-doubts-over-the-legitimacy-of-the-coming-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-2153325
Svelaz writes: “Again, you provided no documentation at all. You still haven’t. You “don’t feel obligated” because you never provided them in the first place and you can’t find it. You’re just covering for your BS claim.”
Here are a couple of locations where I mentioned the address of the FDA report. This proves you don’t know what you are talking about.
In the first one, I copied your statement, which is what is being argued about and is completely wrong,
You said: “All the current vaccines have been granted full approval. ”
Below is one of the many FDA postings I made. I believe others have posted FDA sites as well
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/01/03/new-york-announces-that-scarce-covid-19-treatments-will-be-prioritized-for-non-white-patients/comment-page-1/#comment-2148321
In the second of the posts, I showed one of the reasons Pfizer might like this legal distinction.
jonathanturley.org/2022/01/03/new-york-announces-that-scarce-covid-19-treatments-will-be-prioritized-for-non-white-patients/comment-page-3/#comment-2148317
I posted other things from the FDA with their addresses, and much of what I said was pure quotes from the FDA.
This proves you to be what everyone knows you to be. You were wrong again, and it isn’t just about Covid. You have been proven wrong repeatedly on a multiplicity of subjects where proof has been provided. You deny the truth and the proof provided even when it is on the same official papers you have posted.
S. Meyer, when he can’t post cogent arguments and is left with only insults he goes back to a years long discussion where he thinks he had an argument.
S. Meyer was wrong and is still wrong and will always be wrong on that. It’s all he had. Now it’s just insults compensating for the lack of substance in his “opinions”. Truly sad.
.Here you go again Svelaz, accusing everyone when you should recognize you are the one at fault.
You should be apologizing for not reading the written word shown above. You failed in that discussion, not once, not twice, but repeatedly despite the provision of the links again and again, which showed you wrong.
You are hopeless and not worth the time except if one wants to have a laugh.
SM
(These discussions aren’t worth the time for others, so in this case, just so you recognize who is talking I signed my initials but not my icon so others don’t have to waste the time.
Anonymous (S. Meyer the coward) says,
“You should be apologizing for not reading the written word shown above. You failed in that discussion, not once, not twice, but repeatedly despite the provision of the links again and again, which showed you wrong.
You are hopeless and not worth the time except if one wants to have a laugh.
SM”
What discussion? All you are offering is insults and incoherent rantings about Chinese menus. You said you would stop replying, but you keep replying. You seem to be unable to stop because you have this overpowering need to insult others when you have arguments or anything of substance to offer. So you overcompensate with insults and incoherent blather.
“(These discussions aren’t worth the time for others, so in this case, just so you recognize who is talking I signed my initials but not my icon so others don’t have to waste the time.“
LOL!! Everyone can recognizer who is talking when you post anonymously. Your incoherent grammar structure is very obvious. We always know it’s you S. Meyer. There’s no need to “sign” your name so others can distinguish your “anonymous” persona with your “real” persona using. Your ‘S. Meyer’ handle. You insult the rest of the blog by assuming everyone else’s is not smart enough to know the difference.
BS
Explain what happened in this discussion where one could pull out many emails to demonstrate you are not worthwhile to debate with. You are a liar.
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/01/21/the-other-big-lie-democrats-fuel-doubts-over-the-legitimacy-of-the-coming-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-2153325
Almost everyone knows you are a fool, but not enough know to what degree.
Let them poke around this thread and see how you pay no attention to what is said. You repeat yourself despite what is in front of your face.
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/01/21/the-other-big-lie-democrats-fuel-doubts-over-the-legitimacy-of-the-coming-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-2153325
S. Meyer you had no argument. Clearly you are left with nothing other than just insulting people and desperately wanting others to buy into your fantasy that you had an argument. It’s pretty sad.
Svelaz, you kept saying I didn’t have proof and I didn’t send documentation when I did multiple times. Anyone can go to the links and see you are a liar not worthy of polite discourse..
===
New comment on JONATHAN TURLEY
S. Meyer commented on The Other “Big Lie”: Democrats Fuel Doubts Over the Legitimacy of the Coming Elections.
in response to Svelaz:
S. Meyer, “ Wow! I must have gotten that wrong. I wonder how? Oh, I remember, the FDA said it.” “ I’m using the same document that I have posted before, both in quotes and by providing an address.” If you have posted it before you should have no trouble posting it again. All you […]
—
Svelaz writes: “Again, you provided no documentation at all. You still haven’t. You “don’t feel obligated” because you never provided them in the first place and you can’t find it. You’re just covering for your BS claim.”
Here are a couple of locations where I mentioned the address of the FDA report. This proves you don’t know what you are talking about.
In the first one, I copied your statement, which is what is being argued about and is completely wrong,
You said: “All the current vaccines have been granted full approval. ”
Below is one of the many FDA postings I made. I believe others have posted FDA sites as well
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/01/03/new-york-announces-that-scarce-covid-19-treatments-will-be-prioritized-for-non-white-patients/comment-page-1/#comment-2148321
In the second of the posts, I showed one of the reasons Pfizer might like this legal distinction.
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/01/03/new-york-announces-that-scarce-covid-19-treatments-will-be-prioritized-for-non-white-patients/comment-page-3/#comment-2148317
I posted other things from the FDA with their addresses, and much of what I said was pure quotes from the FDA.
This proves you to be what everyone knows you to be. You were wrong again, and it isn’t just about Covid. You have been proven wrong repeatedly on a multiplicity of subjects where proof has been provided. You deny the truth and the proof provided even when it is on the same official papers you have posted.
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Svelaz- you can’t be serioius. Trump is the leading contender for the Republican nomination. A judge is going to try to silence HIM for the next 12 months?
EdwardMahl,
Awesome!
This go around, people may not vote for Trump per say, but to vote against the weaponization of the legal system to get Trump.
As I have stated on this blog before, I do not want Trump or Biden to run in 2024. I used to think Trump would just fizzle out. But reading recent polling, this indictment just may have given Trump the election.
Boy, is this going to be fun!
It may fizzle out long before he gets a chance to benefit from being indicated if the evidence against him proves to be too much for his supporters to ignore. Then there’s the gag orders that may be imposed on him and would limit his ability to use the cases against him to his advantage.
🤡
While I agree with you that the indictment may have energized Trump’s base, I do not believe there will be anything fun about this election unless the POV is from our enemies’ perspective as they watch us destroy the country from within. If Trump had half the concern for the country that he claims to have, he would have never declared his candidacy, but he is a narcissistic fool who, like Netanyahu, is willing to drag down his country to serve his own egotistical goals.
“Netanyahu, is willing to drag down his country to serve his own egotistical goals.”
Mary, this sounds like a statement based on lack of knowledge rather than anything else. Can you clarify?
Mary,
I should of ended that last line with the “sarc off” to indicate I was being sarcastic.
Although I would not put it past Biden, the DOJ to make up something and declare a national security threat if Trump were to appear to be winning or won the election.
They already make it look like the US is a banana republic.
Mary, I note you haven’t told us why you think Netanyahu is dragging his country down. I want to correct the record and not blame him for things he is right about while blaming him for where he is wrong.
Today one of the major reasons some are attacking Netanyahu is that he wants to change the Israeli Supreme Court.
What does he want to do? He wishes to make the Israeli Supreme Court more like the American Supreme Court. Israel doesn’t have a written Constitution. At present, the Supreme Court of Israel has become dictatorial. The Knesset is elected by the people, and it passes laws democratically. The Supreme Court is canceling laws passed democratically. The whims of the Supreme Court have developed more power than the Knesset put in office by the people.
Biden thinks that is great because three men on the Supreme Court control who will not be permitted to serve. This is totalitarian rule, something our left approves of when they are in power.
All Netanyahu wishes to do is maintain Israel as a democracy. Do you find anything wrong with that?
I think the establishment wants to see a DeSantis vs Newsom race for ’24.
“Carceral” is a new word on the blog. Thanks for expanding our vocabulary. But I suggest that the term “cancerous” is more appropriate. The mutil-dimensional Democrat/media persecution of Trump is a continuing cancer on our legal and polticial system.
Good word.
il carcere = prison in Italian. Looking further back, carceris = prison in Latin.
Thus endeth our etymology lesson for the day.
Thanks, Prof. Turley.
Democrats are fighting their 2nd Civil War…. The Party of Machiavelli has 100% of power in DC, NY, CA, NJ, CT, etc
The only solution is to TAKE AWAY THEIR MONEY
-Cut 50% of Fed gov
-Move 75% of DC to Heartland
-Remove entire leadership of DOJ, IRS and FBI
-5% tax Gross wall street trans & money goes offshore
-Tax all non-profits anyone gets $100k
-Ban fed aid/loans cities & college
-Jail Russian Hoax, COVID liars & Biden protectors, etc
-Ban public unions $ politics, only voters can fund politics
-Remove tax credits renewables, affordable housing, etc
It’s doubtful that Trump would be able to pardon himself. Otherwise the idea that nobody is above the law would prove to be false. Only one person would be above the law. Turley seems conflicted when he states that he believes that a president can be indicted and convicted. If it’s a felony he can be impeached and in Trump’s case It would be a third time.
Keep in mind that Trump may face multiple gag orders with the coming indictments and judges already wise to Trump’s delaying tactics would not put up with such shenanigans any longer.
You could argue that Trump would be “below the law” if he was the only person the President of the Unitied States could not pardon.
It’s doubtful that Trump would be able to pardon himself.
Says the retard troll, citing exactly zero basis for the opinion.
Looks like we have, at last, arrived in Banana Republic Territory – as per Nunca Mas Argentina. Operation Condor? Maybe that was just a practice run for our current struggle.
Is it more bizarre than a campaign by a man who is clearly demented and spent his entire time in his basement on timeout and got 81 million votes? As for the continued faux persecution of DT, it has persisted for 7 years without a break. I am a Florida resident and strongly support our Governor, however, based on this perversion of Law and the Constitution (6th), I will vote for President Trump in the coming election.
Elections need to be 1 day, in person, with ID
I don’t care if you vote, I care if you cheat
Good one. Agree.
That is IF he makes it thru the primaries.
All six of the republican voters who will not vote for Trump are already running for the nomination 😂😂😂😂
“ It is another disheartening example of intentional leaks in violation of federal law and DOJ policies.”
And yet Turley fails to cite said federal law and DOJ policies. Court filings are not leaks. Turley should know that.
Trump is very likely to get a gag order in the NY case and since he is constantly attacking the DA and others that gag order will be very hard to adhere to, especially when it also would involve Trump’s lawyers. Trump could go to jail by simply violating the gag order.
Furthermore judges have been less tolerant of Trump’s delay tactics in court and may not grant him as much flexibility as they used to.
We’ll find out the scope of the charges against him tomorrow when he’s arraigned and fingerprinted.
However the biggest case coming up is not about Trump. It’s the Dominion case against Fox News and the silence from Turley about that case speaks volumes about how bad it’s going to be for Fox News. Turleys’ silence on that case would be tested this month. Will he finally be able “analyze” his employer’s case?
Court filings are not leaks. Turley should know that.
Where is you link to the court documents? Stupid troll cant get the simple facts straight.
Iowan2, you should be asking Turley that question.
Iowan2, you should be asking Turley
You’re the one claiming Turley is ignoring court filings Prove your allegation.
I only respond to the retard troll to expose your idiocy.
Iowan2, nope. I said Turley didn’t cite any federal law or DOJ policy regarding leaks being a crime. Leaks involving non-classified information are not a crime. He claims its’ against federal law and DOJ policy, but he didn’t cite any.
All you managed to do is prove to everyone else that you don’t know how to read for comprehension. Frankly that’s just embarrassing.
“All you managed to do is prove to everyone else that you don’t know how to read for comprehension. Frankly that’s just embarrassing.“
Svelaz, all you know is how to accuse everyone else for your shortfallings. Here again, you accuse others of poor comprehension skills. You are the problem, not anyone else.
SM
S. Meyer says, “Svelaz, all you know is how to accuse everyone else for your shortfallings. Here again, you accuse others of poor comprehension skills. You are the problem, not anyone else.
SM”
I pointed out that Iowan2 falsely stated what I said. I simply corrected him because clearly he didn’t read for comprehension just as you did too because you couldn’t prove that what he said was true. I thought you were done replying to me. See? You can’t help yourself because your need to insult is so overpowering that you just have to do it. it’s all you have which is why it’s so sad when you post because we all know that’s all you are going to offer.
BS.
Svelaz, all you know is how to accuse everyone else for your shortfallings. Here again, you accuse others of poor comprehension skills. You are the problem, not anyone else.
If you have comprehension skills you wouldn’t be making a fool of yourself by not being able to articulate why iowan2 would be correct. You can’t because you would find yourself not able to articulate a substantive response. All you have is petty insults meant to deflect from your failure to provide any retort with substance.
The following response shows you to be ignorant and a liar. I was for you to explain what isn’t true and what doesn’t contain content.
New comment on JONATHAN TURLEY
S. Meyer commented on The Other “Big Lie”: Democrats Fuel Doubts Over the Legitimacy of the Coming Elections.
in response to Svelaz:
S. Meyer, “ Wow! I must have gotten that wrong. I wonder how? Oh, I remember, the FDA said it.” “ I’m using the same document that I have posted before, both in quotes and by providing an address.” If you have posted it before you should have no trouble posting it again. All you […]
—
Svelaz writes: “Again, you provided no documentation at all. You still haven’t. You “don’t feel obligated” because you never provided them in the first place and you can’t find it. You’re just covering for your BS claim.”
—
Here are a couple of locations where I mentioned the address of the FDA report. This proves you don’t know what you are talking about.
In the first one, I copied your statement, which is what is being argued about and is completely wrong,
You said: “All the current vaccines have been granted full approval. ”
Below is one of the many FDA postings I made. I believe others have posted FDA sites as well
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/01/03/new-york-announces-that-scarce-covid-19-treatments-will-be-prioritized-for-non-white-patients/comment-page-1/#comment-2148321
In the second of the posts, I showed one of the reasons Pfizer might like this legal distinction.
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/01/03/new-york-announces-that-scarce-covid-19-treatments-will-be-prioritized-for-non-white-patients/comment-page-3/#comment-2148317
I posted other things from the FDA with their addresses, and much of what I said was pure quotes from the FDA.
This proves you to be what everyone knows you to be. You were wrong again, and it isn’t just about Covid. You have been proven wrong repeatedly on a multiplicity of subjects where proof has been provided. You deny the truth and the proof provided even when it is on the same official papers you have posted.
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I pointed out that Iowan2 falsely stated what I said.
I cut and paste directly from your post. In fact I am still demanding you produce the court filings you claim Turley ingnored.
He claims its’ against federal law and DOJ policy, but he didn’t cite any.</i
That was not what I referenced. You accused Turley of ignoring court filings. Try to change the subject, but I quoted YOU. Now, tell us what court filing Turley is ignoring. Or as usual, you are just cutting and pasting what your leftists handlers send you? Because they are as stupid as you.
🤡