Below is my column in USA Today on the growing excitement among pundits on the prospect that former President Donald Trump could be going to jail. The celebration is a tad premature. Indeed, Trump could be convicted before the election and not be sent to prison for years, if ever. This is not to say that Trump will not go to prison. He most certainly could go to jail. However, the prospect of prison depends on the specific conviction, long appellate challenges, and pardons.
Here is the column:
With the indictment of Donald Trump, there is a palpable sense among many on the left that surely these indictments will bring about the long-desired incarceration of the former president. For some pundits and politicians, it is an anticipation that borders on obsession.
The Georgia indictment is a serious threat for Trump as is the Florida case. However, multiplying the indictments does not necessarily increase the chances of imprisonment before the election, or even during a second Trump term. However, the Georgia case does present a clear context for considering the prospect of prison for Trump.
The sense of anticipation was captured Monday on MSNBC, where Rachel Maddow and Hillary Clinton were shown laughing joyfully on the night of the Georgia indictment. The left is experiencing their own version of chanting “Lock him up,” with a boom business for merchandise celebrating the expected incarceration.
Yet, there is still a great deal of runway between the arraignments and any incarceration.
Let’s quickly review the four cases against Trump. The New York indictment, led by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, is the weakest. It is based on a thin legal theory pushed by a prosecutor determined to charge Trump for something … anything.
The first federal indictment is the strongest of the four. The charges over the mishandling of classified documents are based on established law and firm evidence.
The second federal indictment is similar to the Georgia case in terms of the underlying acts. Both the Georgia case and the federal indictment surrounding the Jan. 6, 2021 riot at the U.S. Capitol are based on the view that Trump and his associates knew that there was no reasonable basis to challenge the 2020 election.
However, Georgia adds state charges that could not only be difficult to challenge before trial but also are not subject to a federal pardon. The 98-page indictment contains 13 counts against Trump. The state charges include mandatory minimum sentences of five years in prison, with no leeway for the sentencing judge. Even five years in prison for a man who is 77 years old (and who never has been previously incarcerated) could be a terminal sentence.
As a threshold matter, a quick resolution of the Georgia case or the others is unlikely. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis’ demand to try all 19 defendants together in six months is wildly unrealistic.
Given the competing criminal and civil proceedings previously scheduled around the country, the Georgia trial may have to wait until after next year’s election. There are also likely to be motions to remove the entire case to federal court.
Even if it were held in the midst of the election, a conviction would not bar Trump from appearing on the ballot or taking the oath of office on Jan. 20, 2025.
During the pendency of these prosecutions, Trump can continue to run for office. Indeed, even a conviction would not prevent him from running for president or serving if elected.
There is even precedent for running for the presidency from prison. That distinction belongs to socialist Eugene Debs, who was on the ballot in 1920 while he served time in federal prison.
If Trump is convicted, most courts would allow him to remain free pending appeals on the weighty constitutional and evidentiary issues raised by the Georgia case. That process could easily take a couple of years.
And if Trump were to win in 2024 and a judge were to order his incarceration during his presidency, there would be an immediate challenge. While state offenses are not subject to the federal pardon authority, Trump’s counsel (and likely the Justice Department) would argue that incarcerating a sitting president conflicts with carrying out his federal duties.
Even if Trump were to be sent to prison, he would not likely be thrown into general pop with a bar of soap and a weekly call. He currently has a federal security detail and, if elected, he would have presidential duties to perform. The state may have to yield to federal authority in how Trump is held to allow him to carry out his duties and to accommodate his security detail.
That challenge would take time, and the federal courts could balance the state and federal interests by delaying any incarceration until after the term. The courts also could effectively achieve that same result by extending the appellate process past the end of a second term.
During this time, there may also be a move to change the Georgia pardon law. Under the Georgia constitution, a five-member board (not the governor) grants pardons. Trump would have to wait five years to be eligible under the current provisions. Georgia is only one of nine states with such a system, and there could be a push to give the governor more traditional clemency power. However, that constitutional amendment process is very demanding and Trump has hardly ingratiated himself with the current governor.
None of this is likely to quash the anticipation of Trump going to prison. Indeed, memes of a jailed Trump continue to be the rage online.
However, a review of the legal proceedings ahead is a buzz kill for the lock–him–up crowd. Despite the proliferation of charges against Trump, there is nothing that guarantees that he will be sent to the big house instead of the White House, if elected.
Jonathan Turley, a member of USA TODAY’s Board of Contributors, is the Shapiro professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. Follow him on Twitter @JonathanTurley
What is being overlooked in these discussions is critically important:
People passionately hate Donald Trump, or they love him. There are virtually zero people without an opinion on him.
Therefore, these cases will be won or lost during jury selection.
And while I don’t know the rules for each of the courts involved, generally speaking, a jury has to be unanimous in a criminal trial.
The fact that so many Americans are blinded to reality and are applauding the obvious political corruption and persecution of Trump is a testament to how well the security state operation to collude with media to brainwash a population has worked. At the same time it is an indictment against the the very same corrupt polity and security state for destroying a highly successful country for their own greed and hunger for power. Civil war is coming to America, and it’s going to get very ugly and lot of people will die.
Not a snow balls chance in hell Trump will go to prison let alone “convicted” of any crime, because the last thing they want is for him to be able to come out with the evidence against them, LMAO
Not a snow balls chance in hell Trump will go to prison let alone “convicted” of any crime, because the last thing they want is for him to be able to come out with the evidence against them, LMAO
The only way to stop Democrats is civil war, just ask Abraham Lincoln. Unless Republicans fight back, they will be replaced just like the whig party.
No civil war is needed. Unity of the party despite differences will prevent a civil war. Everyone but the left should save their energy and direct it against the Democrat party and the imbeciles who support its present existence. Cease fighting with each other. Show the enemy how stupid and shallow they are.
United we stand, divided we fall. The imbeciles on the left proved their inability to run the government.
US prestige cant get any lower than it is right now. Trump being elected from prison or anywhere will immediately benefit the economy exactly as it did in 2016.
Jonathan: I know it’s hard to believe but I want to make a correction to my earlier comment wherein I agreed with you that Fani Willis’ trial date for DJT and his co-conspirators in early March of next year was “unrealistic”. I now think we were both wrong–for the following reasons.
After some research I have concluded a March trial is doable for SOME of the defendants. A look at how massive RICO cases are tried in federal courts is instructive. There, cases with multiple defendants are bifurcated. Defendants are broken into different groups and tried separately. So how will Fanni willis handle her cases? Using the federal model and with her extensive experience in trying RICO cases Willis might want to be bold and start with DJT, John Eastman, Rudy Giuliani and perhaps one or two others. They were the masterminds of the conspiracy and it’s logical she would want to try them first.
And if Willis gets convictions for the first group she is in a better position to get other defendants to flip. They will see the handwriting on the wall and plea out–with or with a cooperation agreement. Then you might see the remaining defendants dwindle down to a precious few–maybe as few as 12 or 13–maybe fewer. The small fry usually don’t want to be kept holding the bag for their bosses.
So what do you think? I think we could see the first trial as early as March or April. Mark Meadows is already trying to get his case removed to federal court. Even if successful that wouldn’t change a trial date for the other ring leaders. There are a lot of unknowns. What is your analysis of my take on a trial schedule in Fulton county?
Extensive experience? What does that mean to you? She tried a couple?
She is no more experienced in trying cases than the average assistant district attorney in any jurisdiction. 19 defendants can not be tried in six month period. There are many pending cases in all courts but more so because courts were essentially shut down during the covid scare. She bit off a lot more than she can swallow
With all due respect President Trump
will not be going to Jail
like you all wish Jonathan.
Every last indict is complete Judicial/Political Mumbo Jumbo
with no crimes stated..
Correction:indictment
Correction: indictment
Punish Turkey for its latest Armenian genocide
Earlier this week, Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, an American patriot and prominent Muslim reformer, warned that the Turkish-backed, stealthy-jihadist Muslim Brotherhood has deeply penetrated the Biden administration and exercises dangerous influence over its policies.
That probably explains Team Biden’s inaction with respect to an unfolding genocide Turkey and its proxy, Azerbaijan, are perpetrating against Armenian Christians in a region historically called Nagorno-Karabach. 120,000 followers of Jesus, are currently being starved to death by a Sharia-supremacist nation still treated as a NATO ally and its surrogate.
https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/punish-turkey-for-its-latest-armenian-genocide/
The excitement right now is surrounding Trump being held pre-trial for violating terms of his release — for example, intimidating witnesses via social media, or fomenting terrorist pressures focussed on Court personnel.
I think a 10-day stint in Fulton CO jail would get the message through to Trump that his freedom right now, every day, depends upon following a set of rules diligently….without the usual gaming and testing to see if the Judge really means it. He seems destined to screw up in an impulsive moment. He’s his own worst enemy.
“I think a 10-day stint in Fulton CO jail would get the message through to Trump “
A bit authoritarian, don’t you think?
GO JOE!
ABC, CBS, NBC, NPR, CNN, WAPO, NYT’s, The GLOBE, L.A.TIMES,
paid for by Hunter isnt Hiding
I DEMAND THAT THE PRESS STOP PERSECUTING HUNTER AND JOE AND GO AFTER TRUMP, FOR A CHANGE!
@Cernovich
“I can’t vote for trump he’s a big meanie.”
You killed all those kids in Maui with your fake morality.
You are collaborating with the cartels and the largest slave trafficking operation in world history.
You do not have the high road. You are not moral.
Scum!
Above tweet is referring to the DEMOCRATs who want us to believe they are our moral superiors. They are immoral scum.
Black people, black men especially, are waking up to this fact as they watch Biden’s corrupt DOJ politically prosecute Trump and unlawfully go after Trump supporters….FBI banging down doors and executing political dissidents…ie Trump voters……four killed by FBI in just a few weeks!……all being done by Biden’s corrupt, authoritarian, illegitimate government…..in order to create a chilling effect.
Trump supporters have targets on their backs and the government wants us all to know it.
Blacks are now waking up….muslims are waking up….hispanics are waking up…….all watching…..and seeing….that it is not R’s against D’s….it is us, all of us, against them…..the government….the establishment….the System.
And…..they are seeing that it is the Democrats who control the system. All the systems.
Democrats are now squealing like the dirty pigs they are, going to slaughter….
Election 2024 is their slaughterhouse. And that is a good thing for ALL Americans.
All you Republicans still saying but, but, but…. “99% of the FBI rank & file do good and important work”….y’all need to shut it. You lie.
ALL of the FBI is corrupt….from top…..to bottom…..
If you cannot trust the top tier (and we cannot)….and it is the top tier that issues orders to the dutiful bottom tiers…..and that rank & file does what they are ordered to do instead of resigning…….Then yes, the entire FBI is corrupted, and NOT to be trusted by anyone.
Stop with the “rank and file is good” nonsense talking points. No one is buying it, nor should they.
The FBI is a domestic terrorist organization. It is the Stazi. It is Biden’s Gestapo.
All of the FBI is corrupt. Do not be fooled.
If the “rank & file” of the FBI wish to preserve its reputation, no one is stopping them from resigning in protest, en masse.
Irrevocably corrupt down to the janitor.
If it’s not the big guy, it’s Michelle.
Our free press does a remarkable job presenting the news in a balanced fashion; 23 hours and 59 minutes condemning Trump, 60 seconds of commercials.
Tom Elliott
@tomselliott
Biden: As Hawaiians sift through the ashes looking for more bodies, they’ll be able to find me in Lake Tahoe, partying w/ my partner in crime & billionaire friends.
If it feels like he’s giving us the middle finger — that’s because he’s giving us the middle finger.
Peter Baker
@peterbakernyt
Aug 19
The Bidens are staying at the Lake Tahoe, Calif., home of Tom Steyer, the billionaire liberal activist who ran against him in the 2020 primaries. The White House says the president is renting the home at “fair market value.” He is joined by several family members including Hunter
Biden saying he is renting the house for fair market value is meaningless. He should provide documentation of how much money he has transferred to Steyer for using the house, and then let others decide whether it constitutes fair market value. And another thing. Even if Biden has paid fair market value, which I doubt, if the money used to make the payment is the result of bribes received by Biden, it’s not clear that he has made a case for being a stand-up guy.
It would be front page news with nonstop trashing Trump if he and his family took even one luxury vacation in a billionaire’s home….let alone multiple vacations in billionaire’s luxury homes….as Biden has been doing during his presidency.
And if Trump stayed for free (which Biden likely is) and failed to declare it as a gift? The fake news would be digging into that story. But for Biden? No interest at all.
And if Trump vacationed while Maui burned with thousands still missing? It would be wall to wall headline coverage blasting Trump.
Biden should be being raked over the coals by the corporate press. But criticism is only coming from the right. Why? because they are The Fake News. They work in service to the Democrat party, and they prove their corruption daily.
Joe Biden is literally shoving Hunter in our face, instead of keeping him out of sight…
Biden is shoving a big middle finger in our face…
This time while Maui burns…..and the fake news media is like, “Ho hum.”
Biden’s Katrina? What Katrina? Look over there! Trump indicted again! See, because no one is above the law!
@Cernovich
Trump ran the country so competently that the “news” had to make up hoaxes. Under Biden there has never been more corruption, crime, and human trafficking. Not to mention 1,000 missing in Maui. And there’s no interest! It’s all regime propaganda.
WHAT IF TRUMP WAS IN OFFICE takes are tiresome, i know.
But geeze.
Over 100 confirmed dead in Maui. Mostly kids. Thousands missing.
And the media isn’t asking where Joe Biden is.
There is no bottom.
@cernovich
Well, we can hope that he does see a cell and the voters are not crazy enough to put a felon in the White House.
I think there needs to be a much greater appreciation for the 2016 result. The great majority of people who filled in the oval next to Trump’s name were voting against the multi-decade intransigence and disdain for the electorate of the two major political parties. It is a vote against Chuck Schumer. It is a vote against Mitch McConnell.
Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell are just as intransigent now as they were in 2016. So if that’s your reason for filling in the Trump oval, you haven’t been provided with a reason to switch. Serious downward multi-decade economic trends have come to a head. The only candidate I’ve heard discussing that is Ramaswamy.
Vote for the “felon”. It’s important.
Lex: You slipped up and are already referring to DJT as a “felon”. He is presumed innocent until a jury finds otherwise. Even if he is convicted and is then a “felon” do you think many mainstream Republican would vote for a convicted “felon”.? The polls show otherwise. With only his MAGA base of support what chances do you think DJT has to prevail over Joe Biden? Slim to none!
Thats kinda the point of all this, aint it.
But Dennis, by the way, which of your posts regarding violence these days was a lie?
I didn’t slip up, you insufferable moron. I made an ironic allusion.
Dennis the Moron doesn’t know what quotation marks mean. Can we really be debating with people that stupid?
Vote like your very freedoms are on the line.
This nation fought a revolutionary war and a civil war based on whataboutism, the principle that people should be treated equally under the law. We are now getting dangerously close to another such conflict. Fortunately, patriotic constitutional conservatives permeate our nation. For example, in 2020, Trump got more votes in New York State than he did in any southern state except Florida and Texas.
If people should be treated equally then Trump should go to prison if convicted.
Equality starts long before anyone steps into a courtroom. When the cops have evidence that Democrats are doing the same things that MAGA Republicans are being arrested for, it would be nice to see the cops devote the same energy to arresting Democrats.
You have that perfectly backward.
“Both the Georgia case and the federal indictment surrounding the Jan. 6, 2021 riot at the U.S. Capitol are based on the view that Trump and his associates knew that there was no reasonable basis to challenge the 2020 election.”
My understanding is they are being charged with soliciting someone to illegally overturn the electoral count by using electoral certificates that were not state certified. All that is required is that they knew the certificates were not state certified yet advocated for their use.
It’s impossible for someone to “illegally” overturn the electoral count. Either the “someone” has the authority to decide to overturn it, in which case overturning it is legal, or he doesn’t, in which case his decision has no legal effect and doesn’t overturn it.
“that were not state certified.”
Let’s assume you are correct. Are you saying the state has a role higher than Congress’s role in the tallying of election results”. What happens if Congress doesn’t agree?
Certified elector certificates are a state function. Under the Electoral Count Act, those are the only certificates that can be counted. There is a process for throwing electoral votes out. And it does not involve the Vice President. But you can’t replace them with uncertified certificates.
“Certified elector certificates are a state function. “
That is fine, but it is up to Congress to make the final call.
“There is a process for throwing electoral votes out.”
That is correct, and it is Congress who decides, not the state. Your statement indicates that the state has a higher role than Congress. Your understanding is wrong.
I don’t think you higher role doctrine is going to be an adequate defense. I’m perfectly willing to get talked out of the illegality of this. I didn’t buy into the Russia Hoax from day 1. The Special Council was based on crossfire hurricane. So it was not a legitimate legal entity. Yet was covered as such for 3 years by an unquestioning media that made absolute fools out of themselves. I have read the Alvin Bragg indictment, and I am satisfied that Bragg abused the power of his office.
So it is against that backdrop that I view these indictments with deep suspicion. But Congress can NOT certify presidential elector certificates. Only states can do that. So you’ll have to come with something that acknowledges that other than some nebulous higher role doctrine.
I cannot see your argument even if I chose to accept your facts. What was illegal on the state level?
Well there’s nothing illegal on the state level. All 50 states created certified slates of electors by the December 14 deadline.
Eastman wanted Pence to count slates other than those. That’s illegal.
All 50 states created certified slates of electors by the December 14 deadline. Those are the only slates available to Congress.
Right now we are dealing with one specific state.
“Eastman wanted Pence to count slates other than those. That’s illegal.”
That is what you say, but I am not going there because we are dealing with only one state, and I am waiting for you to tell me what was illegal on the state level. Let’s not drag in new arguments. You either have an answer or you don’t.
There was nothing illegal on the state level Meyer. Every state sent one set of certified electors. Either Biden or Trump, by the December 14 deadline. Have no idea what else you want. Those are the facts.
“There was nothing illegal on the state level Meyer.”
It took a long time to get here, but now that we are here, what is next?
““Eastman wanted Pence to count slates other than those. That’s illegal.”
That is what you say, but I am not going there…..””
Well Meyer, that’s the point of the thread. The fraudulent Trump electoral certificates. The only context within which I talked about Congressional challenges to certified electoral votes was to note that Congress cannot then consider non-certified electoral votes.
If a challenge to certified electoral votes is upheld, those votes are not counted. And if neither candidate has 270 electoral votes after that, the matter goes to the House of Representatives. So fine.
If you want to persuade me that something illegal didn’t happen, then you will have to address the illegal acts and state why they’re legal.
And that is that Giuliani, Trump and Eastman solicited Mike Pence to count non-certified Trump electoral votes after unilaterally throwing out certified Biden electoral votes.
“Congress cannot then consider non-certified electoral votes.”
Where is it written that Congress is forbidden to question?
“If you want to persuade me that something illegal didn’t happen, then you will have to address the illegal acts and state why they’re legal.”
This statement is not logical. You are stating something illegal happened, not me. You have to show what was illegal because I don’t believe anything was.
You are drawing conclusions that are disputed and haven’t been adjudicated.
Where is it written that Congress is forbidden to question?””
I don’t think you’re being very sincere. That’s not a question to anything I wrote. Mike Pence was solicited to unilaterally reject certified Biden electors and count non-certified Trump electors. That is illegal under the Electoral Count Act. Specifically, 3 USC 6-14. There is also no legal mechanism for Congress to count non-certified electoral votes. There is process to challenge certified votes. If it succeeds, they are not counted. That is all.
Now if you wish to state that Mike Pence can unilaterally throw out certified Biden electors and count non-certified Trump electors, a subject you clearly wish to avoid, feel free to say so.
“Where is it written that Congress is forbidden to question?”
I don’t think you’re being very sincere.”
I am sincere. You base your entire argument on the ability of Trump or his agents to make Congress do something it is unwilling to do. Secondly, Congress is the final arbiter of what electoral votes to count. Since that is the case, the most you should desire is censoring those that brought something to Congress that Congress finds frivolous. Don’t blame me for your failure to find something illegal.
“Mike Pence was solicited ”
So?
“That is illegal under the Electoral Count Act. Specifically, 3 USC 6-14.”
Spell out the illegality in words that demonstrate criminality. For the most part, the act is procedural.
“Now if you wish to state that Mike Pence can unilaterally throw out certified Biden electors and count non-certified Trump electors, a subject you clearly wish to avoid, feel free to say so.”
I am not avoiding that issue, but I wish you could remain on topic. Trump did nothing criminal, but you claim the opposite. Instead of repeating the act’s number, tell us in simple English what Trump did that was illegal while quoting the portion of the statute that proves your case.
It is not my fault you failed to prove your case, so stop bringing up things I never discussed and limit your responses to the question under discussion,
“As far as I can tell, Mike Pence can unilaterally reject certified Biden electors, and count non-certified Trump electors.”
Since you appear unable to make that statement, I will make it for you.
The Trump certificates were not state-certified. Under the Electoral Count Act, only state-certified certificates can be considered. I gave you the cite.
There is a process for challenging those. It does NOT involve the Vice President. I’d be happy to give you the cite for that. 3 U.S. Code § 15.
So there you go. Mike Pence cannot unilaterally throw out certified Biden electors. And Mike Pence cannot count non-certified Trump electors.
Trump, Eastman, and Giuliani knew the Trump electoral votes were not certified. They solicited Mike Pence to use them.
Now, given that, if you would like to maintain that Mike Pence can unilaterally throw out certified Biden electors and count non-certified Trump electors, and I haven’t written anything to show otherwise, just say that.
And the best of luck to you.
“As far as I can tell, Mike Pence can unilaterally reject certified Biden electors, and count non-certified Trump electors.”
Where is that quote? You making things up.
“Since you appear unable to make that statement, I will make it for you.”
Why do you want to put words in my mouth?
You are making up new arguments because you are unable to show criminality. That is the discussion, not this BS.
You are basing your arguments on reading people’s minds, and creating arguments that do not exist in this discussion.
Prove your case. Instead of repeating the act’s number, tell us in simple English what Trump did that was illegal while quoting the portion of the statute that proves your case.
You can’t. Instead of admitting it, you are creating arguments I never made. That is not an honorable way to debate.
““As far as I can tell, Mike Pence can unilaterally reject certified Biden electors, and count non-certified Trump electors.”
Where is that quote? You making things up.””
Now, Meyer, I noted that you can’t bring yourself to make that statement. Either Mike Pence can legally do that, as far as you can tell. Or it is illegal for him to do that.
So go ahead. Just type it out: “As far as I can tell, it is legal for Mike Pence to unilaterally reject certified Biden electors, and count non-certified Trump electors You haven’t shown me anything that shows otherwise. So there is nothing wrong with soliciting him to do that.”
Just type that out.
And the best of luck to you.
“Now, Meyer, I noted that you can’t bring yourself to make that statement. Either Mike Pence can legally do that, as far as you can tell. Or it is illegal for him to do that.”
Is this your admission of making up a quote not said? Are you also engaged in mind reading?
Steve, the discussion is not about Pence. I am not discussing Pence, nor do I think I made any comment regarding his actions in this discussion.
Just because you cannot make your case is no reason to become nasty. I am discussing Trump while you keep running away, deflecting onto another subject. Try remaining on topic, and after you admit you erred about Trump, we can deal with other issues.
“Just type that out.”
You have provided me with words to type out that have nothing to do with Trump’s guilt.
How far will you twist the discussion so you need not face being wrong?
S.Meyer.
Good enough to make the case.
Gnite.
“The Trump certificates were not state-certified. Under the Electoral Count Act, only state-certified certificates can be considered. I gave you the cite.
“There is a process for challenging those. It does NOT involve the Vice President. I’d be happy to give you the cite for that. 3 U.S. Code § 15.”
The Constitution (in this case the 12th Amendment) trumps the US Code. And citizens can petition the government to redress their grievances. Trump made an argument to Pence, which Pence rejected. If you think that is a crime, then everyone who loses a lawsuit will have to be imprisoned along with his lawyer.
“Trump made an argument to Pence.”
No. Trump asked Pence to commit a crime And Pence will testify to that. Solicitation does not require that the other person do as you ask. You can’t ask someone to commit fraud. You can’t ask someone to murder your wife. You can’t ask someone to commit election fraud by counting non-certified electoral certificates or violate the Electoral Count Act.
“No. Trump asked Pence to commit a crime And Pence will testify to that.”
Pence will testify to what is well known, that Trump asked him to…
Pence will not use the word crime because it wasn’t. You are mind reading again.
Meyer,
Good to hear from you again.
“Good to hear from you again.”
Steve, I am glad you see things that way.
Enjoy.
You can’t overturn an electoral count with electoral certificates, you lunatic. You overturn the electoral count by proving the electoral count was wrong.
“You can’t overturn an electoral count with electoral certificates”
I’m glad you admit that. You are correct. They should have never tried to do that. It’s illegal.
The prog/left crew is looking more and more like a gang of pre-pubescent girls tormenting the ugliest girl in the class. Vicious and petty but unusually adept at causing the most outrageous cruelty and then revelling in it.
Jonathan: Continuing my previous comment I think all the federal and state indictments of TJD are serious. But I agree the Jack Smith docs case is most likely to get convictions. Unfortunately, Judge Cannon, a Trump appointee and supporter, has made a mess of the case with all her strange, illegal and nonsensical rulings. She doesn’t understand CIPA law and, given her losing track record in which the 11th Circuit slapped her down for previous erroneous and unconstitutional rulings, Jack Smith will be forced soon to appeal one of her unlawful rulings and even get her recused. That could get that trial pushed to way after the 2024 election.
What you don’t mention in your analysis of the various cases is a real analysis of Jack Smith’s indictment of DJT in DC over the Jan 6 insurrection. That is the most serious and immediate threat to DJT. Given all of DJT’s continuing threats against Judge Chutkan, the prosecutors and witnesses it is likely that case will be tried before any of the other cases. Jack Smith has asked for a trial date in early January. DJT’s lawyers want a trial after the election. Chutkan has made it clear she doesn’t want to give DJT opportunities to continue to interfere with the fair administration of justice and taint the jury pool. So I expect that at the trial setting hearing on 8/28 Judge Chutkan will set a trial date for sometime between February and April, 2024 so it doesn’t conflict with other of DJT’s trial dates. DJT’s lawyer will be sorely disappointed in wanting the trial in April 2026.
I would expect the DC trial to be completed before the 2024 election. If DJT is convicted in the DC case we can come back then and discuss whether a convicted felon can conduct a viable campaign–let alone serve as President. I doubt most voters are going to cast their ballots for someone who was convicted of unlawfully trying to violently overturn the 2020 election. If you think otherwise you are tilting at windmills!
Jack Smith is a strategic genius. He really doesn’t care whether the case before Judge Cannon gets tried until after the election. He now has the Jan. 6 indictment before Judge Chutkan who is a law and order and no nonsense judge. She will not allow DJT’s tactic of delay and delay. The DC case is the one to watch!
It’s shocking that you claim to be a trained lawyer and this is actually how you “think,” You don’t “think.” You regurgitate.
“[Judge Cannon] doesn’t understand CIPA law . . . .”
She doesn’t need to. It doesn’t apply in her courtroom.
Lex.: You’re wrong. CIPA is very much part of the case before Judge Cannon. Look at the court calendar and then get back to me.
Hey Dennis
Why don’t you get back to me on your conflicting statements regarding violence these days?
I looked at the court calendar. Proves nothing.
There, see how easy that was?
Is the leaking coming from Jack Smith illegal?
Shouldn’t illegal leaks be prosecuted?
No one is above the law!
I’m not sure what kind of punishment Trump thinks jail would be compared to the alternative. People are claiming guilty verdicts would be a death sentence for Trump. I don’t think Trump sees it that way.
Existence IS marketing. Specifically marketing the brand. The brand of Trump. The press release. The P.R. The name covers the sides of the plane he uses. Trump towers. etc., etc., etc.
Trump the brand cannot lose. Therefore, Trump the brand won. That was necessary for marketing the brand well before the 2020 election took place.
If there is no marketing. There is no existence. Trump lives as a conscious vegetable. A dead man walking.
That happens with any type of concession speech or showing up to an inauguration as the runner-up.
On the cost-benefit analysis, the numeric cost assigned to a concession speech borders on infinity. Jail is a cost. But the numeric cost is lower than something bordering on infinity.
In jail, he can continue marketing the brand. He may not have access to a computer. But he can write out his tweets long-hand. A visitor can re-post them under their handle, and return with hard copies of his tweets and selective responses. And in the world of the brand, the responses will represent the American electorate.
It takes just ONE juror to prevent a conviction. Just one. I like Trump’s chances even in this loaded kangaroo court.
The kangaroos have all been brainwashed like Dennis, enigma, et al. Does not matter how many facts, or truth, is laid at their feet, they will never see it. Never. It is MK Ultra level brainwashing.