Various news sites are reporting that a Christian man, Ishtiaq Masih, was beaten to death in Pakistan’s Punjab province for buying a cup of tea in a Muslim-only tea stall.
The owner is a Mubarak Ali, 42, who put up a sign in Machharkay village saying that non-Muslims had to identify themselves when approaching the stall. When Masih’s cross was noticed around his neck, the owner called on people to attack him. Here is how the International Christian Concern (ICC) described it: “When Ishtiaq went to pay for his tea, the owner noticed that he was wearing a necklace with a cross and grabbed him, calling for his employees to bring anything available to beat him for violating a sign posted on the stall warning non-Muslims to declare their religion before being served. . . The owner and 14 of his employees beat Ishtiaq with stones, iron rods and clubs, and stabbed him multiple times with kitchen knives as Ishtiaq pleaded for mercy.”
For the full story, click here.
IS,
Do you read much scientific literature (I’m talking peer reviewed journals)?
Mike,
The cynic in me wants to say that the problem with any given religion are the people that DO actually take their holy book of choice literally. I don’t think that’s the whole story. I think the essential problem with religion is that it’s a great excuse.
BIL:
I am sorry, but where are the Noble Prize winners? Certainly many Muslims contribute to science and in fact back a 1000 years ago our western civilization benefited from their contributions.
I just looked at a few randomly and they appear to be ancestors of those converted by the sword.
We can go round and round with this and it has nothing to do with racism or bigotry, there is some fundamental flaw with Islam as a religion/philosophy for life.
I am looking at this purely from a philosophical point of view and you immediately label me a racist. A white man or a black man or a red man can have a flawed philosophy and behave badly. Race has nothing to do with this.
I have noticed that quite a few on this site bring everything down to racism or bigotry when they disagree or don’t understand someones comments. It is an effective tool for silencing opposition, as no one wants to be labeled a racist or bigot.
I disagree heartily with the views of Eldridge Cleaver and probably would not care to have lunch with him, on the other hand I think Thomas Sowell is one of the finest living intellectuals today and would buy him lunch anytime he asked. Am I a racist for disagreeing with Eldridge Cleaver? Am I a racist for thinking his philosophy of life sucks?
If you think I am, you have very much to learn or you label people racist because you have no compelling rebuttal.
By the way I have read portions of the Quran and find it to be a very harsh religion, perhaps I have only read the bad parts or maybe my western civilization values colors my interpretation.
How many Islamic countries believe in the sanctity of the individual? How many Christian? Just wondering.
And to think I believed Seinfeld’s soup Nazi was arbitrary.
IS,
“But we dont see many Muslims getting Nobel Prizes or producing world class science or art or literature. Jews do and so do Christians and atheists.”
You need to read more about the history of science. Nobel Prizes are not how one should evaluate a societies contribution to science. Science happened long before Alfred’s conscience got to him. That statement of your is bigoted and borderline racist. Also wildly incorrect. You don’t think Muslims have contributed to science? Start here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
“I say there is some fundamental philosophical problem with Islam to cause this level of discord. It probably has to do with a disrespect for life on this earth. And I will admit that to the extent that Jews and Christians believe this life is a training excercise it extends to them as well.”
That’s just simply ignorant. I’d reply more than that, but you’re obviously not familiar with the book which you malign. It be like talking about engineering to a fish. It’s clear your knowledge of Islam comes from propaganda rather than doing the work of researching the topic yourself.
Islam is a LOT like Christianity in the respect that there are many flavors. Within those different flavors, there are often wide disparities in levels of belief, from casual almost non-practicing to zealot. And guess what? Not all Muslim’s are crazies bent on forcing you to worship Allah, believe it or not. Just like not all Christians are going to commit the ultimate oxymoron crime and murder someone because they are pro-life. At best, you are myopic and ill-informed about which you speak. At worst, you’re an intolerant un-Christ-like bigot with an anti-Muslim agenda – a troll. I guess we’ll find out where you fall on that spectrum.
Mike Spindell:
My wife says that the ones with the bad mental health tend to rule relationships.
Good points on the sociopathic nature of leadership and control.
BIL:
“there’s plenty of bad behavior done in EVERY “God’s” name.”
I certainly cannot disagree with that statement.
But we dont see many Muslims getting Nobel Prizes or producing world class science or art or literature. Jews do and so do Christians and atheists.
I say there is some fundamental philosophical problem with Islam to cause this level of discord. It probably has to do with a disrespect for life on this earth. And I will admit that to the extent that Jews and Christians believe this life is a training excercise it extends to them as well.
IS,
I agree that there appears to be a pro-Christian (perhaps as you see it Judeo-Christian) bias showing. This, if true, was an occurrence at one shop somewhere in Pakistan. You can’t take that as a worldwide phenomenon. The reality is that fundamentalism in all religions breeds intemperance. I’m not saying that either as a militant atheist, which of course I’m not, but as an observer (in my own mind at least) of history.
The case might be made for instance that historically Islam has treated Jews far better than has Christianity and there are many points in favor of this. As a Jew though, I know my own people and I know for a fact that Fundamentalist Jews for the most part would be no better than their Christian, Muslim and Hindu counterparts if they had a place where they had full power. Fanaticism and zealotry from all faiths is the enemy of humanity’s peaceful coexistence and has been the cause of almost all of the Earth’s wars.
It must be emphasized that my position on this is not one of coming from some idealistic unreality of why can’t we all just live together in brotherhood, as appealing as that prospect may be. The historical record clearly shows that fanaticism and zealotry of all philosophical/political modes causes death and destruction. While heredity may have hard wired us for xenophobia, it is always exploited by the sociopaths among us. Religious zealotry seems to attract the sociopathic with constant dire results. Until humans solve the problem of seeing ourselves as a human race in its entirety, we will always have sociopaths “rule the roost.” The problem with religion is that many followers fail to understand the underlying philosophy and instead want to play the “us vs. them” game.
IS,
You really don’t want to start the whole bad history comparison, do you? Seriously, your bias (pro-Christian/anti-Muslim) is showing. It won’t end well because that topic has come up many more times than once here and inevitably the analysis comes back that there’s plenty of bad behavior done in EVERY “God’s” name. The texts of both religions can and have been used as a justification for violence and oppression to varying degrees. The construction of the New Testament is in itself a political construct that reflects the bias and agendas of the members of the Council of Nicea. The documents that the most rabid fundamentalist Muslims use to justify their crimes is not from their primary book, but comes from a later ancillary clerical work – also a document that is more political than it is religious. The problem isn’t any one religion. It’s all religions. In that it is all religions, it becomes relevant to look at the commonality of the trouble makers in an attempt at diagnosis. The axis of commonality comes back to zealots and fundamentalist of every flavor. That’s why the Founding Fathers were so careful to construct Freedom of Religion as they did.
Islam is at the same stage that Christianity was when it was hanging witches and burning heretics.
Although apparently Christians are burning 5 year old witches in Africa so maybe Christianity is not much better.
BL:
While I certainly agree that there are zealots in all faiths, the fruit on the tree of Islam is spoiled. Are there good people that practice the faith, certainly. But overall there is something fundamentally wrong with Islam. Trouble follows them like Pig Pens cloud of dirt through their entire history.
This story is not an isolated incidence. If I can make an analogy: If a golden retriever bites a child one looks at the reason the individual dog bit the child. If a pit bull bites a child one does not look at the individual but the breed. Are all pit bulls bad, no. Are all golden retrievers good, no. But one is bread for fighting and the other for loving.
Maybe if the world rises up against this type of behavior it will cease.
Are you certain of the veracity of the claims made by the article? The source you cite (worthynews.com) isn’t exactly impartial or absent of interest. These Christian groups exploit anything they can, regardless of whether or not it is true.
IS,
Boycott businesses owned by Muslims.
By that logic, because a Christian killed Dr. Tiller, we should also boycott Christian businesses.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to boycott a business. Starbucks hasn’t gotten a dime from me since I found out how they treated employees. Wal-Mart? I’d sooner buy from slavers. The religious beliefs of the owners are not a valid reason to boycott unless their religion endorses human sacrifice or cannibalism as a current practice. Otherwise your logic leads to an Ouroboros of self-perpetuating intolerance and you punish moderates of both faiths (or any faith for that matter) who are appalled by someone being killed for such a ridiculous reason.
How about boycotting zealotry instead? Address the cause instead of aggravating the symptoms.
I know this is off topic but do you all realize how much insurance companies have invested in Tobacco Companies and Tobacco Companies have invested in Insurance Companies? Make sure one covers both ends of the market what do you say?
“Forget about your brotherly otherly love … what you need is … motherly love … c’mon and get it now … motherly love”
Mothers of Invention
If you did that in Wayne County Michigan. You have no options except for one in Eastern Wayne County.
Well now I can see this happening at Starbucks as they seek to regain there respective market share.
Boycott businesses owned by Muslims.
Dang, I wonder if you have a coupon and did not declare it before ordering what they would do to your food? Humm, PLease tell the clerk in advance if you are ordering with a coupon. Why? A special key ion the register, you get less, they do something to it? I will make sure I take my ring off before ordering.
And they wonder about us?