The global campaign against the scourge of secularism continues. As we previously saw how the Chief Rabbi and the former prime minister of England attacked secularism as the threat to Western Civilization. Now, Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels is adding his voice to this chorus — singling out atheists as responsible for the greatest crimes of the last century.
Daniels’ rather shrill and strained view of history came out in a pre-Christmas interview with NewsChannel 15 at the Governor’s Residence in Indianapolis. Daniels is a Presbyterian and insisted that his life’s purpose is “to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.” That seems perfectly understandable. However, he then turned to those who have historically threatened mankind: people who do not believe in God.
Here is part of that interview:
Mark Mellinger: You’ve talked about your own personal faith very little. What is the Gospel? What is its primary significance to Mitch Daniels?
Governor Daniels: It’s true. I don’t talk about these things too openly for two reasons.
One is [that] although faith is very central to me, I also take very seriously the responsibility to treat my public duties in a way that keeps separate church and state and respects alternative views.
Secondly, I’ve sometimes referred to it as a Matthew 6 Christian. If you read that chapter, it’s the one that talks about praying in private, not giving your alms in public, not being ostentatious about your faith. And I’ve always liked that notion and thought that was a pretty important instruction.
Mellinger: But theology has to shape your life, right? I mean, the external actions that we see you take, [they’re] driven by what’s inside. Isn’t it all a result of your theology?
Daniels: I hope it is; hope it is, except we all fall short of that.
To me, the core of the Christian faith is humility, which starts with recognizing that you’re as fallen as anyone else. And we’re all constantly trying to get better, but… so I’m sure I come up short on way too many occasions.
Our country was founded -this is just an historic fact; some people today may resist this notion but it is absolutely true- it was founded by people of faith. It was founded on principles of faith. The whole idea of equality of men and women [and] of the races all springs from the notion that we’re all children of a just God. It is very important to at least my notion of what America’s about and should be about and I hope it’s reflected most of the time in the choices that we make personally.
Mellinger: Is there part of you that is bothered by the aggressive atheism of a [Sam] Harris, a [Christopher] Hitchens, a [Richard] Dawkins? And what I mean is… this atheism is a little different than atheism has been in the past because it does seek to convert people.
Daniels: I’m not sure it’s all that new. People who reject the idea of a God -who think that we’re just accidental protoplasm- have always been with us. What bothers me is the implications -which not all such folks have thought through- because really, if we are just accidental, if this life is all there is, if there is no eternal standard of right and wrong, then all that matters is power.
And atheism leads to brutality. All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists -Stalin and Hitler and Mao and so forth- because it flows very naturally from an idea that there is no judgment and there is nothing other than the brief time we spend on this Earth.
Everyone’s certainly entitled in our country to equal treatment regardless of their opinion. But yes, I think that folks who believe they’ve come to that opinion ought to think very carefully, first of all, about how different it is from the American tradition; how it leads to a very different set of outcomes in the real world.
“Atheism leads to brutality.” That is certainly the case with all those atheists who force nine-year-old to marry, carry out female circumcision, invade nations to convert them, bomb market places, and hang people for blasphemy . . . wait, those are the faithful. Well, as Blair insists, consider Hitler. He wrote:
This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life. The various substitutes that have been offered have not shown any results that might warrant us in thinking that they might usefully replace the existing denominations. …There may be a few hundreds of thousands of superior men who can live wisely and intelligently without depending on the general standards that prevail in everyday life, but the millions of others cannot do so.
– Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10
By helping to lift the human being above the level of mere animal existence, Faith really contributes to consolidate and safeguard its own existence. Taking humanity as it exists to-day and taking into consideration the fact that the religious beliefs which it generally holds and which have been consolidated through our education, so that they serve as moral standards in practical life, if we should now abolish religious teaching and not replace it by anything of equal value the result would be that the foundations of human existence would be seriously shaken.
– Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 2 Chapter 1
Hitler was actually baptized as Roman Catholic, attended a monastery school, was an altar boy and claimed to be a “soldier of Christ.” There is a debate over his view of religion when he died, but Hitler actually encouraged faith among his soldiers and citizens in his twisted view of the world. He also wrote “I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.” (Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2).
Among the Daniels’ “so forth” with Mao and Stalin, he obviously must omit Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Augusto Pinochet and others from last few decades. He also must omit those crusader massacres, Northern Ireland terrorists, and every other killing spree for God. He also must omit the war crimes committed by his party’s own George W. Bush who was fed Biblical passages by underlings who want to invade the Muslim world, here.
What threatens this planet is not secularism or religion, but people like Daniels who curry favor of some by demonizing others in the name of faith. It is fanaticism that links the great crimes in history.
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Oh, no. Not another one of those terrible Izzy and Turshawn jokes! Have you heard the one where Izzy and Turshawn get stuck on a ferris wheel thinking it’s an elevator?
JTurley and all posters I have read here remind me of Izzy and Turshawn next door. Here is what happened 3 days ago.
I. and T. were in one room and their mother was in another. Mom heard this, “Ouch.” “Ouch.” “Ouch.” “Ouch.” “Ouch.” “Ouch.” “Ouch.” “Ouch.” …repeatedly. One voice was that of Izzy and the other of Turshawn. Mom went to check. When she rounded the corner, she saw T poke I in the eye, and I said, “Ouch.” Next she saw I poke T in the eye, and T said, “Ouch.” Mom asked, “What is going on here?” T said, “Izzy pokes me in the eye and I say, ‘Ouch.'” Izzy said, “Turshawn pokes me in the eye and I say, ‘Ouch.'” Mom said, “Both of you are doing the very same thing.” T said, “No, Izzy pokes me in the eye and I say, ‘Ouch.'” Izzy said, “No, Turshawn pokes me in the eye and I say, ‘Ouch.'” Mom said, “Both of you are doing the very same thing.” T said, “No, Izzy pokes me in the eye and I say, ‘Ouch.'” Izzy said, “No, Turshawn pokes me in the eye and I say, ‘Ouch.'” Mom said, “Both of you are doing the very same thing.” T said, “No, Izzy pokes me in the eye and I say, ‘Ouch.'” Izzy said, “No, Turshawn pokes me in the eye and I say, ‘Ouch.'”… etc.
See why you people remind me of my idiot-friends? – R. Singh
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“… these innocents were ushered early into the bliss of Paradise.”
I thought for a while you were making up all this stuff! Unbelievable!… There are actually people crazy enough to write stupidities like that??? Scary!
Taylor Venable wrote:
“It’s a real shame that such ignorant things can be said by public officials and still receive the tacit endorsement of such a wide audience”.
Quitter Ex-Gov. Sarah Palin leaps to mind.
Gee, I’m a devout atheist myself. I guess there’s not much hope for me.
But then, being an atheist, I don’t believe in Satan either or hell! And I don’t harbor thoughts about living for ever either.
Who in their right mind would want to?
I would like to add the works of my favorite youtube philosopher, NonStampCollector to the discussion.
He makes one point that is particularly useful: atheists generally condemn the actions of such vile dictators and don’t worship mein kampf.
Daniels: “All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists” –v- “Secondly, I’ve sometimes referred to it as a Matthew 6 Christian. If you read that chapter, it’s the one that talks about praying in private, not giving your alms in public, not being ostentatious about your faith. And I’ve always liked that notion and thought that was a pretty important instruction.”
Matthew 6 does a pretty good job instructing one on the humility –v- false humility actions of religious persons. If Daniels was indeed a humble man who believed in not making a show of his piety then firstly, he would not mention it and secondly; he would not criticize, IN A RELIGIOUS CONTEXT, the actions of those whom he considered bad.
There is an old religious saying: If one belittles oneself in order to gain praise then the Lord will expose you. This article exposed him.
Daniels needs to do a bit of meditation on humility in order to progress beyond the Baby Christian stage.
If you search for “Numbers 31” you’ll find this entertaining apologetic from Apologetics Press:
“However, to allege that the God of the Bible is some sort of ‘monster’ for ordering Israel to destroy the inhabitants of Canaan exhibits an ignorance of biblical teaching. Those inhabitants were destroyed because of their wickedness (Deuteronomy 9:4; 18:9-14). They were so evil that their Creator no longer could abide their corruption. That they had numerous opportunities to repent is evident from the prophetic books (Nineveh did repent, for example, and for a time stayed the day of destruction). Complaining about Jehovah’s order to destroy innocent children is a vain gesture when one realizes that the children were spared an even worse fate of being reared as slaves under the domination of sin. Instead of having to endure the scourge of a life of immorality and wickedness, these innocents were ushered early into the bliss of Paradise. If the male children had been allowed to mature, they most likely would have followed the pagan ways of their forefathers, and eventually would have taken vengeance on the Israelites. Killing the males not only prevented them from falling into the same abominable sins as their parents, but also kept Israel from having to battle them later.” (http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/586)
“Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.”
( Adolf Hitler, in 26 April 1933 in a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933; from Ernst Helmreich, The German Churches Under Hitler. Detroit: Wayne State Univ. Press, 1979, p. 241. )
Hitler was an ally of the Vatican not its enemy. One need only note the infamous Odessa network secreting Nazi’s out of poet-war Germany to figure that out. I don’t mind an obstinate conservative, just an unlettered one.
not that it matters but it is Numbers 31.
I was so outraged by this scatterbrain of a governor that I wanted to show him some instances of horrendous behavior–like “ethnic cleansing”–contained in the Bible. So I just did that, typing on Google the string: “ethnic cleansing in the Bible.” Well, I came up with several, including this first one, aptly entitled “Ethnic cleansing in the Bible” from the blog Questioning Christianity, which quotes from the book of Numbers… I quote this in extenso, so bear with me and sorry for the length:
Num 1 1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”
3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD’s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.
7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.
13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.
15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
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