We often discuss the disconnect of religious fanatics who rape or beat or kill women and girls in the name of morality. Often such abuses seems to be condoned by governments like Iran. However, after a series of acid attacks on women for not being properly veiled, the Iranian government is actually investigating and denouncing the attacks.
The government’s sympathy only go so far. Under the Sharia-based law in Iran, women must wear the loose fitting hijab that covers their heads and necks.
The attacks have occurred in Isfahan and General Hossein Ashtari has confirmed at least four acid attacks. Others say that there are at least 13 women chemically burned for being “badly veiled.” Other attacks have occurred in Pakistan, Afghanistan and India where the women are accused of “sullying” their family “honour” by committing “indecent” behaviour.
While the government has insisted that it will investigate, others have insisted that it must also punish women who are not sufficiently covered. Various women have adopted thin veiled or more shapely clothing to the outrage of religious Iranians. Iranian MPs have written to President Hassan Rouhani to demand that police increase enforcement of wearing of the veil. Once again, these legislators have little faith in convincing people to follow their Islamic values. Instead, they want to coerce them to comply to their values and call it a moral act.
Source: Yahoo
During yesterday’s Magnificent “M” thread when there were complaints about the Sunday liberals, I said that I looked forward to tomorrow’s (Monday’s) post on Pakistan rape or Saudi Arabian beheadings.
Well, whadda you know.? Here it is. Just as predicted.
Paulette, we all know the truth of the matter.
And your conclusion as to what Paglia thinks is fundamentally flawed.
Paulette, Indeed I do. Please don’t call me a “dick” for simply having different views as you, as you did the last time we spoke. Thanks for your anticipated cooperation.
Jill, Good comment. I always find discussions w/ you a breath fresh air. I hope you comment more often. I would say to both the students I taught, and athletes I coaches, “Knowledge is power.” As long as people know the risk, and still choose to participate in any activity, then the most important criteria has been met.
We had a great discussion on head injuries in football yesterday. I had a severe head injury playing football in the 60’s. I went through a series of specialists. ALL the docs told me and my parents[I was 16] that I was @ MUCH greater risk of further and permanent injury if I continued playing. NONE told us to stop playing, this was the 60’s before attorneys and nannies started rearing their ugly heads. But, they explained clearly the risks. My coach made changes in my helmet to facilitate me playing my Sr. year. That is the next step after understanding the risk. Making reasonable changes to lower the risk. But, there is risk in virtually every thing we do on a daily basis.
Mark Kernes comments here @ times, He is a porn journalist and extremely knowledgeable as to the changes made in the porn industry to lower risks. I hope he jumps in on this.
Nick ~
Camille Paglia thinks rape is intrinsic to men’s nature. Clearly, she thinks men are uneducable and will always respond to stimuli without reason or control. Is this the same Camille Paglia you think is a REAL feminist and intellectual?
but I truly do not fully understand the hatred and abuse of women around the world
Neither do I. The causes and results are multitudinous. The religion of Islam is not the only one to promote suppression of women. It is just the worst example right now.
Cultures and how people are raised also affect the values and promote abusive treatment, not just against women either. If you want to see a real life example of this, just watch any rap video and see the degradation of women that is central to that culture. If you are raised in an abusive household, you will tend to think that this is the normal way to live and continue with that abuse.
How to change human nature? Good question (I tell myself). You can make laws and stop some of the abuses. You can gradually try to educate and change the culture. Focus on the REAL issues and not the peripheral things. Understand that what is important in our culture means doo squat in another.
“And obviously, no woman here has ever done anything to help sexual assault victims. Am I the only one?”
I work with the Soroptimist organization. We set up safe houses for abused women who are seeking to get away from their situations. Donate household goods, toys, clothing, cellphones to be able to call for help and provide food until they can get safely situated. I have met with women and driven them and their children to the safe location, temporary housing or apartments. (Over the objections of my husband who is worried about my safety. He has also gone on these rescue runs with me). The women generally have to leave everything they own in a rush to get away from the abuse. In a rural area or small town area it is very difficult logistically to get away from your bad situation. Once there at the safe locations., they are assisted through the government/social process of getting relocated and connected with legal firms who work pro bono.
There have also been the occasional male refugee as well, with his children. Women aren’t the only ones who get abused.
Soroptimist International. A great organization
http://www.soroptimistinternational.org/
DBQ, I feel somewhat frustrated because my first post was a discussion of why there is violence against women at all.
Sexual slavery exists in the US and I gave examples of it above. Women are not allowed out the door in the US by abusive family members. This is really happening. These are fundamental issues in most nations. This behavior is not unique to Islam, to India or Nigeria. It is also happening in the US and other western nations.
My point was trying to understand why there is so much violence directed against women world wide. I don’t have a clear answer to that question. I tried giving a few reasons as to why I think it is so common, but I truly do not fully understand the hatred and abuse of women around the world.
Nick, Many football players are suffering lasting harm from TBI. They choose to be football players and top athletes make millions of dollars. So does saying that they chose this career and make millions off it, relieve society of addressing the need to end TBI?
To me, it doesn’t.. We have occupational safety rules (which granted are not enforced very well under the current regulatory environment) but we do have them. We understand for example, that being a coal miner is a hazardous job which pays relatively well (comparatively speaking). We also regulate the hazards that miners are exposed to, not as well as we should, but only certain people who benefit from lax regulation for safety object to making a safer environment. We do not say those SOB’s are getting rich off the job so the He(( with them, let em die.
We have evolved in treating workers in some areas but not others. We need to evolve again in the area of pornography.
How would anyone know what women here have done or not done in regard to helping other women? That sounds like some ‘imaginative’ conclusions once again. Amazing.
@ Jill
“As women gain reproductive freedom and economic equality, they have a better chance at stopping violence against them.”
I don’t have a problem with this concept in general and it applies very much to our Western societies as valid goals.
However, to think that this is the FIRST step in stopping the Islamic oppression of women,(because this is the topic of the post), is delusional. There are deeper more fundamental issues than just reproductive freedom or equality of income (which I find a dubious right as defined by the people pushing that ….but that is another topic for another time) that need to be addressed before the women of Iran or Nigeria or India can get to that point of obsessing about the various feminist issues.
Pornography is bad. Know what is worse. Sexual SLAVERY.
Being offended if a man holds the door open for you . Worse. Not even being allowed OUT the door.
Equivalence and prioritizing. Until we understand those concepts it is all just hot air.
And obviously, no woman here has ever done anything to help sexual assault victims. Am I the only one?
Paul, Female teachers are raping male children in disturbing numbers. An inconvenient truth.
Malala just won the Nobel Peace Prize. Western women nominated Sandra Fluke.
DBQ, I go back to my original comment. This reaction to a reasonable discussion on the stark difference between the West and Mideast women’s culture was just too predictable. Then, throw in the personal history, and it gets toxic quickly.
DBQ,
Thanks for explaining your point. I want to add something. As women gain reproductive freedom and economic equality, they have a better chance at stopping violence against them.
Being dependent on a man or a family member for an income or the ability to raise a child is used to control women. This happens across the world. Programs which have allowed women to start their own business/have higher paying jobs and to have fewer (or no) children have raised the status of women in the society as a whole and have given women leverage against violence.
I see all these things as interconnected. In Saudi Arabia women must be accompanied by a male to go outside in the public sphere. They aren’t allowed to drive. If a western woman goes there to work, her passport is held by the govt. and she also must be accompanied by a male everywhere in public.
In other parts of the world girls are beaten for going to school or tying to work. There is a reason that the education and independent income is denied women. I still know people who will help a son get and education but not a daughter. They do not choose to split the help. They simply give it to the male.
Having child after child is often damaging to a woman’s body. It is difficult to get an education and find work under conditions of yearly pregnancy. I guess then, that I do see these as important issues of freedom in all nations, including the US and third world.
Rush Limbaugh, discuss, or don’t.
Get back to what it takes to keep women here from being abused and misused. Don’t dismiss our country’s own problems with the mistreatment of women by focusing and comparing ourselves to paternal misogynistic societies and exclaiming “Shut up, be grateful!”.
“I guess I have difficultly understanding why these cruelties seem unimportant to you. Is it spoiled to point out this reality which occurs in the US? If so, why?”
Jill
I guess I have a difficult time with those who refuse to stay on topic, can’t stay on topi. Can’t even address the article that was written and make comparisons between things for which there is NO real equivalence.
When did I ever say that those things you pointed out are unimportant to me? You are extrapolating into what you THINK I think. You have no idea what I think until I say what I think. Until then, please don’t try to read my mind through the internet.
This post was about IRAN and the Islamic values and laws that allow and even encourage such horrors. Instead of addressing this, we get talking points about reproductive freedom and income equality.
Being doused with acid because you didn’t veil yourself or because you wanted to go to school IS NOT EQUAL to not being able to get birth control pills. If you think it is equal, then there is no hope.
There are things that are bad happening in the United States and those should be addressed. BUT….they are not the same as those in other parts of the world and frankly not nearly as widespread or deeply horrific as those that the article addressed.
Christine Hoff Sommers, dicuss.