Respectfully submitted by Lawrence E. Rafferty (rafflaw)-Weekend Contributor
This past week’s news reports of the Senate report on the CIA Torture program were both distressing and enlightening. I was dismayed to not only read what the full extent of the CIA’s Torture program was, but also when I read pundits and former CIA officials claim that rectal rehydration was merely a medical procedure! I was further discouraged when commenters on this blog made claims that waterboarding and other torture tactics were either necessary or what the devils deserved.
Very few pundits or commenters seem to care if the so-called Enhanced Interrogation techniques were legal or ethical when the CIA resorted to them shortly after 9/11. This “debate” over the actions taken in our name by the CIA has gone from a report based on the CIA’s own words to denials that the techniques were torture, to claims that great intelligence value was gained using the torture and claims that it was a biased report written by Democrats.
When we were attacked on September 11, 2001, most of the world was supporting the United States in its hours of grief and anger. What happened after the attacks quickly turned the tide of world opinion against us and created new enemies. When the CIA delved into its historical “playbook” to devise black sites and brutal interrogation techniques, the result, in my opinion, was a loss of our ethical and legal bearings that are still out of whack today.
When our greatest generation fought enemies stronger and just as brutal as what we face today, our forces were held to a higher standard than the enemy we were fighting. The idea that America does not torture or mistreat its prisoners or enemies is not a new one. It dates back at least to when General George Washington decided that British regulars and paid mercenaries fighting for the British were not to be mistreated in our detention facilities.
He made that decision knowing what too many of our soldiers had experienced under the hands of the British forces. We were supposed to be better than our enemies.
When the CIA delved into the black sites and torture techniques, another US agency, the FBI balked and questioned the tactics being practiced by the CIA. The FBI was gaining valuable information from al Qaeda operative, Abu Zubaydah, after his capture in March of 2002, but that all changed when he was put into isolation for 47 days.
“The Senate report describes the F.B.I. questioning — both in the hospital and later at the black site — as successful. Intelligence reports indicate he provided valuable information, but denied knowing anything about plots against America. But agency officials believed he was holding out. In response, Mr. Mitchell offered a menu of interrogation options.
While C.I.A. and Justice Department lawyers debated the legality of the tactics, the report reveals, Mr. Zubaydah was left alone in a cell in Thailand for 47 days. The Senate report asserts that isolation, not resistance, was the reason he stopped talking in June. Mr. Soufan said he was livid when he read that. “What kind of ticking-bomb scenario is this if you can leave him in isolation for 47 days?” he said.
For three weeks in August 2002, Mr. Zubaydah was questioned using the harshest measures available, including waterboarding. But the Senate report says he never revealed information about a plot against the United States. The C.I.A. concluded he had no such information.” New York Times
The CIA has used harsh interrogation and torture during past wars and conflicts and eventually the agency was brought under control. Waterboarding is torture, no matter what name it is given. Isolation, rectal rehydration, sleep deprivation, to name a few, are torture. We have prosecuted past enemies for waterboarding and even some of our soldiers who crossed the legal and moral line.
Why is it now only a crime if our enemies do it to us? Will we regain the soul of America again and finally get past partisan grievances to retake the moral standing of our nation?
We talk often on this blog about the rule of law. Whether it is a President who is grabbing more power for the Executive Branch or citizens of color who seemingly are undervalued by our Justice system. An argument can be made that ever since money starting taking control of our government, we have lost our rule of law because the wealthy and powerful seem to be immune to prosecution. Does the CIA stand above the rule of law?
Will the CIA be brought under control? Will government officials who authorized the torture and those that carried it out and those that refused to prosecute it be brought to justice? I submit that if we do not get control over the CIA our collective souls will continue to suffer in our eyes and in the eyes of the world. As Ali H. Soufan, the former FBI interrogator mentioned earlier says, our actions have consequences.
“‘We played into the enemy’s hand,” said Ali H. Soufan, a former F.B.I. agent who clashed with the C.I.A. over its interrogation tactics. “Now we have American hostages in orange jumpsuits because we put people in orange jumpsuits.”’ New York Times It is an overused phrase, but it fits here:
“The whole world is watching.”
Only we can resurrect the soul of America. We are better than torture. At least we used to be.
“The views expressed in this posting are the author’s alone and not those of the blog, the host, or other bloggers. As an open forum, weekend bloggers post independently without pre-approval or review. Content and any displays or art are solely their decision and responsibility.”
That’s a lie! The vet killer was the lead story or second story on newscasts and is being COVERED EXTENSIVELY in the MSM. Plus, the vet killer is a LIVE story, his being still @ large the last I checked.. The press LOVE those fugitive stories. a BLATANT lie!! But, PLEASE don’t take my word for it. At this minute it is the SECOND story on Google News. Behind the BUTCHERING of over 100 children by the Taliban, retribution for Malala getting the Nobel Peace Prize. When you catch someone in a lie, you must be suspect of EVERYTHING they say. That is my profession, catching liars.
Max, seems so. I guess the “patriot” torturers who appear on The Kelly Files appeal to these kinds of people.
BFM, You don’t know the history. You would have a much different understanding if you did. Many here do. Let’s PLEASE leave it there.
I did find it odd that yesterday the news cycles all were focused on the Sydney event all the while a WHITE, US VET, probably CHRISTIAN is on the loose in Pa went sight unseen for the majority of the day…
Annie,
It’s a case of Fascists don’t need empirical evidence…
Msjettexas
It’s a Sandy Hook event for America…
… How American of the Taliban.
Paul, sigh. It was NOT I who said they were sedated, it was SANDI who said they were ” knocked out”. Please do try to keep up. And read “more better”.
Inga –
That is all you, Inga. All YOU!!!!
Paul. You are not keeping up with the flow of comments. Go back Sandi’s comment in which she says the prisoners were knocked out before the torture. I am refuting her assertion. I don’t believe for a minute they were knocked out. I was trying to get her to see how ridiculous her assertion that because they were knocked out torture was OK. I DO NOT believe they were unconscious. Seriously Paul you need to read more carefully before commenting.
Inga – I am keeping up with your comments. YOU need to write more carefully. I quoted you as you wrote and I responded to your comments.
Paul, you quoted me OUT OF CONTEXT. You do understand that concept, correct? As I said several times now, I do no believe for a second that the prisoners were “knocked out”. IF that were the case as I SAID, then an IV could’ve been inserted or an NG tube. It is beyond ridiculous to assert they were knocked out for a rectal feeding which was MEANT to be torture.
This is one of the many reasons I loathe talking to you, Paul. It is tedious to keep having to correct your misperceptions of what others say. I happens so many times a day, it’s become quite tiresome.
Inga – I quoted enough that you were quoted in context. I am afraid you do not know what the term ‘out of context’ actually means. Fascinating how often you complain that someone either quotes you out of context or mischaracterizes your statements. None of which is true. People have you dead to rights.
Paul, perhaps you have some residual from your stroke. I can’t explain your continual issues otherwise. You’re on IGNORE again. I can’t be bothered by your games, or “issues”.
Aridog, I am aware that JT has been on The Kelly File. Did he speak about Torture on that show? I don’t recall. I know he’s been on many news shows speaking out against torture, I posted several videos of him from various news shows. If JT spoke on Fox regarding the illegal US Torture Program, I missed that show. Perhaps someone has a link to it?
Jettexas,
So are you saying that Edward Snowden was wrong in his whistleblowing? If Diane Feinstein is the same as Snowden then that’s a positive thing to many American’s who consider him a hero.
Inga – I consider Snowden a traitor, so I have no trouble with considering Feinstein a traitor.
Oh quelle surprise.
Jettexas, you are aware that many if not most conservatives and libertarians who comment here think Snowden is a hero? I think I’m safe in saying even Professor Turley thinks what Snowden did was a good thing. But hey we all get to have our own opinions and that’s also a good thing.
“An assault led by the Taliban on a Pakistan military-run school Tuesday left 141 people dead, 132 of which were children, officials say, in the worst attack to hit the country in years.”
“My son was in uniform in the morning. He is in a casket now,” wailed one parent, Tahir Ali, as he came to the hospital to collect the body of his 14-year-old son Abdullah. “My son was my dream. My dream has been killed.”
These nuts are killing children! I wouldn’t think twice about using torture on these animals and child murderers! Terrorism has grown in the past 6 years. This is an example of what they will do to us, if they get here through our open borders and attack us. I’m hoping the next president will have the b@lls to do whatever we need to do, to stop these crazed evil killers.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/12/16/taliban-pakistan-school-attack/
Not getting any love here or FFS. Time to find a new blog.
“Not getting any love here or FFS.”
Poor Nick, how soon they forget. Nick, if you feel you are not getting all the time, attention, and appreciation you deserve, I could tell them to step it up for you.
Barry, Oops, you got me!
Oh, wait…
http://jonathanturley.org/2014/12/11/truth-will-come-out-the-senate-report-contains-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-1362723
You list non-medical sources for your cause! Really. There was ONE rectal re-hydration used on one detainee because he went on a starvation diet to protest his incarceration. Non medical sources are as trusting as Rolling Stone mag.
Sandi ~ Good point, when rape is considered torture in our courts, will I consider it torture. Funny how Liberals always have ambiguous definitions when it fits their agenda.
Paul ~ You are correct, this is payback for the 2014 reckoning the American people gave the Democrats. They have put so many peoples lives and the lives of their families in danger. Dr. James Mitchell, whom was on Megan Kelly can’t even go back to his home.
You selfish Democrats make me sick, all you think about is yourselves and getting power back and screw everyone else. Your fake indignance over this report is so typical. What about the lives of our guys, that this report has now put a target on or a faquah on. Knowing the way you democrats think, you are saying to yourselves, “goody goody they deserve it”. What about the 3000 people burned alive, jumping to their deaths or calling their loved ones to say their last goodbye because they know their about to die. You think I give a crap about a bunch of nutty jihadist who got tortured! I wish we would behead the sob’s!. Do to them as they do to us!
The response to this report and the way it was released is why the country shed democrats on November 4, 2014. The polls show the majority of Americans approve torture. You all need to wake up or we are going to be attacked again. These nuts are not afraid of us because of the democrats kumbaya attitude on terrorism! Those people are laughing all the way to their machete’s.
Chip S: “…an answer would be that those previous prosecutions involved cases where the Geneva Conventions applied. Undoubtedly you disagree with that answer, but it doesn’t seem as though the applicability of the GC to modern terrorists is a settled issue. Is it?”
Where ‘terrorist’ is ‘anybody the USA declares to be one.
Yes, Inga, I have known women who have been raped. If these procedures were done while the subject isn’t awake, why would that be torture.?
Max-1, I am not common, but would consider rape of any kind (human or device) disgusting. Has rape been considered torture in our courts?
Annie,
Well, Brennon did say it was a medical procedure so some people will believe him over the medical fields, because, BEN-GAH-ZEEEE!!!!
Nick Spinelli
War has been declared on us by jihadists. They consider themselves soldiers. The lack of understanding by people commenting here of history, and the context of this new symmetrical war, is astounding. The more some comment, the more they show their ignorance of history, law, and jihadists.
= = =
Shorter Nick: screw the rule of law…
Sandi,
When the medical community slaps down your suggestion that anal rehydration is a medical procedure… You say you don’t care and double down?
Do you know anyone who’s been raped?
Ask them if you should care…
Max-1 – I have been around a long time. When I see a title like the one the doctors belong to, I know it is a front for a socialist or communist group. The naming follows a pattern so the ‘right’ people join. Cannot trust this group, Max, sorry.
Sandi,
When the CIA engaged in RAPE so as to coerce a confession from a detainee in US custody, and also threatened to RAPE relatives to coerce a confession from the detainees…
… What do common circles call that?
Max-1 – let’s get back to who they raped for information. Who was raped for information?
Inga, Physicians for Human Rights says something is torture and I’m supposed to be impressed? If they didn’t say it, they wouldn’t be part of a group. And, Inga, I don’t care!
Sandi,
Odd you aren’t arguing about the Senate Report lacking interviews of the victims of torture… NO?