Respectfully submitted by Lawrence E. Rafferty (rafflaw)-Weekend Contributor
This past week’s news reports of the Senate report on the CIA Torture program were both distressing and enlightening. I was dismayed to not only read what the full extent of the CIA’s Torture program was, but also when I read pundits and former CIA officials claim that rectal rehydration was merely a medical procedure! I was further discouraged when commenters on this blog made claims that waterboarding and other torture tactics were either necessary or what the devils deserved.
Very few pundits or commenters seem to care if the so-called Enhanced Interrogation techniques were legal or ethical when the CIA resorted to them shortly after 9/11. This “debate” over the actions taken in our name by the CIA has gone from a report based on the CIA’s own words to denials that the techniques were torture, to claims that great intelligence value was gained using the torture and claims that it was a biased report written by Democrats.
When we were attacked on September 11, 2001, most of the world was supporting the United States in its hours of grief and anger. What happened after the attacks quickly turned the tide of world opinion against us and created new enemies. When the CIA delved into its historical “playbook” to devise black sites and brutal interrogation techniques, the result, in my opinion, was a loss of our ethical and legal bearings that are still out of whack today.
When our greatest generation fought enemies stronger and just as brutal as what we face today, our forces were held to a higher standard than the enemy we were fighting. The idea that America does not torture or mistreat its prisoners or enemies is not a new one. It dates back at least to when General George Washington decided that British regulars and paid mercenaries fighting for the British were not to be mistreated in our detention facilities.
He made that decision knowing what too many of our soldiers had experienced under the hands of the British forces. We were supposed to be better than our enemies.
When the CIA delved into the black sites and torture techniques, another US agency, the FBI balked and questioned the tactics being practiced by the CIA. The FBI was gaining valuable information from al Qaeda operative, Abu Zubaydah, after his capture in March of 2002, but that all changed when he was put into isolation for 47 days.
“The Senate report describes the F.B.I. questioning — both in the hospital and later at the black site — as successful. Intelligence reports indicate he provided valuable information, but denied knowing anything about plots against America. But agency officials believed he was holding out. In response, Mr. Mitchell offered a menu of interrogation options.
While C.I.A. and Justice Department lawyers debated the legality of the tactics, the report reveals, Mr. Zubaydah was left alone in a cell in Thailand for 47 days. The Senate report asserts that isolation, not resistance, was the reason he stopped talking in June. Mr. Soufan said he was livid when he read that. “What kind of ticking-bomb scenario is this if you can leave him in isolation for 47 days?” he said.
For three weeks in August 2002, Mr. Zubaydah was questioned using the harshest measures available, including waterboarding. But the Senate report says he never revealed information about a plot against the United States. The C.I.A. concluded he had no such information.” New York Times
The CIA has used harsh interrogation and torture during past wars and conflicts and eventually the agency was brought under control. Waterboarding is torture, no matter what name it is given. Isolation, rectal rehydration, sleep deprivation, to name a few, are torture. We have prosecuted past enemies for waterboarding and even some of our soldiers who crossed the legal and moral line.
Why is it now only a crime if our enemies do it to us? Will we regain the soul of America again and finally get past partisan grievances to retake the moral standing of our nation?
We talk often on this blog about the rule of law. Whether it is a President who is grabbing more power for the Executive Branch or citizens of color who seemingly are undervalued by our Justice system. An argument can be made that ever since money starting taking control of our government, we have lost our rule of law because the wealthy and powerful seem to be immune to prosecution. Does the CIA stand above the rule of law?
Will the CIA be brought under control? Will government officials who authorized the torture and those that carried it out and those that refused to prosecute it be brought to justice? I submit that if we do not get control over the CIA our collective souls will continue to suffer in our eyes and in the eyes of the world. As Ali H. Soufan, the former FBI interrogator mentioned earlier says, our actions have consequences.
“‘We played into the enemy’s hand,” said Ali H. Soufan, a former F.B.I. agent who clashed with the C.I.A. over its interrogation tactics. “Now we have American hostages in orange jumpsuits because we put people in orange jumpsuits.”’ New York Times It is an overused phrase, but it fits here:
“The whole world is watching.”
Only we can resurrect the soul of America. We are better than torture. At least we used to be.
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msj, I have a deep respect for JT. I’m much too rough around the edges to have that reciprocated. But, I can live w/ that. Having worked w/ attorneys for decades, I know them better than just about anyone else. JT is in the top 3 attorneys I have ever seen. The other 2 are attorneys I have worked w/ on cases. Of the thousands of attorneys I’ve encountered over the years, there are probably 25-30 I would hire. JT is in the top 3 of that list. People say I brown nose JT. I hit him hard on global warming. He is an environmental attorney and that clouds his views. I also hit him hard on other issues. And, our emails would be DISPOSITIVE I am not a brown noser! But, I have deep respect for the man above his professional work. He is a family man, as was my father and myself. That’s number one in ones life. Or, at least it should be.
Yes Inga. Edward Snowden was wrong. He didn’t just whistle blow, he downloaded all kinds of secret documents and has given them to other countries. That’s as wrong as what Feinstein did. Feinstein is a politician and that act just proved it. Also did it to throw off all of the attention on Gruber. Our Nation belongs to us and as a nation, we must protect it from people like them who want to destroy it. Feinstein committed Treason! She should be charged and on death row.
Ari, I first saw JT on CNN. He may have been a pundit on the OJ trial, but I definitely saw him during the Clinton impeachment. I’m sure JT chuckles to himself as he righteously sues Obama, having been vilified by Dems during the Clinton debacle. “Deja vu all over again” as Yogi said.
@Nick Spinelli
“Righteous principle is a foreign concept to ideologues and liars. JT was a hero here when he went after Bush on principle. He became a pariah when he went after their cult leader”.
Spoken perfectly and spot on!
@Max-1 ~
Let me repeat the offer I made to you on another post. If our nation is so evil as you always say, I will be happy to buy you a ONE WAY ticket to Syria, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Niger, Yemen, Sudan, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan and heck, even Russia. But you have to stay there for one year. Go to these other countries and live and I invite you to state your mind there. I dare you and see if you don’t get your head whacked off! You are the most ungrateful unhappy gripping American that I have ever come across besides Louis Farrakhan.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed stated and I quote;
“Your country will turn on you, the Liberal media will turn on you, the people will grow tired of this will turn on you, and when they do, you are going to be abandoned”.
To think Khalid Sheikh Mohammed understands Liberal’s naivete of war and exploit it for their own purposes, to divide and then conquer Americans. Dianne Feinstein is no better than Julian Assange or Edward Snowden. At least
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed understands her, like he does all Liberals.
Aridog, Righteous principle is a foreign concept to ideologues and liars. JT was a hero here when he went after Bush on principle. He became a pariah when he went after their cult leader.
Busted dude, just walk away. “I know you are but what am I” is grammar school stuff. I have bookmarked this thread now.
Nick
Then put the shovel down…
And why is it that a known mentally ill Muslim Cleric who storms a cafe is called a terrorist yet a white US vet on the rampage isn’t labeled accordingly…
Let’s cut the baloney again…Professor Turley has also appeared on The Kelly File, as well as at least once on CNN, and likely others I missed, on various topics. The idea that appearance on the Kelly File means you agree with an opposing view is in itself misdirection. It is also a disparaging remark, by derivation, about Professor Turley who seems to comment based upon principle not agenda, whether his listeners/readers agree of not. I respect that…it is what allows me to listen with an open mind.
The first rule for getting out of a hole is TO STOP DIGGING!
“Sight unseen” liar. Your words.
Nick, Nick, Nick…
… Ever so vigilant.
How PC
Now, did I say that no coverage was given?
Proven liar. There are currently 1493 news articles on the vet killer. You been caught, I would let it go. That would be the smart thing. I will let it go as long as you stop lying about this.
Nick
Patty cakes, patty cakes bakers sham…
… You come out to play w/ me now?
Oh, that lexiCON of an idea hasn’t been proposed on FOXNews(R) yet…
… Operative word, YET!
Msjettexas
I surprised you aren’t on a rant about how the Taliban just did the world a favor by killing off future Muslim Terrorists or something…
Paul C. Schulte said …
Gary T – this report is payback for the 2014 elections.
Perhaps that was part of it. However, let’s cut the baloney about the why and when the report was issued with much press coverage. It was purely and simply to smoother the inquiries in to Dr Gruber’s outbursts regarding the how and why of the PPACA.
On MSM outlets today, of all ilks, Dr Gruber…who’s that?
Mission accomplished?
Move on nothing to see there…and I am not disparaging the necessary conversation about torture and interrogations per se, only the lop sided report (no consults with persons actually involved in the activities) and the failure to mention that the CIA is linked directly to several other agencies, and does not act alone. That is intentional misdirection.
I believe Darren wrote the best summary comment and I thank him for that. A clear mind, uncluttered by the narrative of one side or the other, is a fine thing. I am also grateful to rafflaw for presenting a good case for discussion. I only find the hysteria sprinkled through this thread depressing. YMMV.
As I said previously and on this thread, I am too biased to insist anyone or everyone agree with me, let alone address individual sub-topics, not because I favor torture, but because my personal experiences make it difficult. I am/was willing to listen and let my outlook be modified, perhaps resolved.
BFM, but we here remember the history quite well, don’t we?