We have another story of a Muslim mob murdering a person for offending Islam. A woman named Farkhunda, 32, in Kabul had reportedly burned a copy of the Koran inside a riverside shrine. She was then set upon by a huge mob that burned her alive and then threw her into the Kabul river. This was deemed the moral response to an immoral act by the crowd. [Update: It turns out that the accusations against Farkhunda may be untrue and that she was actually defending what she viewed as the degrading act of selling amulets in a mosque when she was attacked]
Four people have been arrested by the crowd watching and encouraging this despicable act was so large that they broke the railing of the shrine itself in pushing forward for a better look.
The murder occurred in the very capital of Afghanistan at the Shah-Do Shamshira mosque.
Source: La Times
Issac said …
The US had and will have the military strength to wax just about any country on earth.
True in the abstract, however with our force reductions, under the current administration, it is much harder today. And our enemies know it.
It was also obvious under the previous administration when the Sec of Defense said “you go with what you have” [paraphrased…cuz I am lazy 🙂 ]….and promptly discovered that rag tag troops with IED’s could wreck havoc on us in the field…just like the little guys in black pj’s did long ago.
Biggest mistake any military can make is to underestimate the enemy.
anarmyofficer … BTW I agree with your remark about Islam given that most Afghans can’t read, and must rely on the words of others … who can easily excite them for no good religious reason. Yes, it is more a cult than a faith under those circumstances. I saw similar exploitation, albeit non-religious, in RVN long ago….where a rural boondocks farmer was happy just to not be shot at, as well as his buffalo, by any of three forces.
anarmyofficer said
I also recently retired, and can now not worry about every little thing that I write on here. Hooray! … I also despise calling their religion Islam, since 90% of them can’t read their own religious text. They follow the religious leaders, and their interpretations of the religion… not their actual texts per-se. It’s more of a cult than it is actual Islam.
I’m also retired, but because I still consult with my old Army office, I still must be careful what I say here or anywhere. Recently a plagiarist took my “nick” and posted a racist comment…which I had to ask the operator of this board to remove because I have no sock puppets and virtually everyone in my old office knows who I am….as Aridog or R. Thompson. Because….Goggle.
Enjoy your retirement, but I recommend you still use caution in posting, which does not mean you hide anything, just that you not say something that can be easily misinterpreted.
Oh, I have had a few drinks, sooo let me play like I’m Inga for a moment with one of her intellectually honest arguments! (gag. gag. barf.) OK, here I go, frump, frump, frump….clear my throat. . .now I’m Inga….
Oh My God, CHRISTIANS are sooo crazy and stupid!!! Just lookit this video!!! We gotta keep these CHRISTIANS away from children or they will all get bit to death by RATTLESNAKES!!!
Just look at these CHRISTIANS!!! Foaming at the mouth. Spew. Spew.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl_8r7WG3g4
OK, now I can go back to being myself. Tidy myself up. Wipe the foam off my mouth. Ditch the flowery moo-moo. Gee, that was kind of fun! Not very smart, but fun!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Karen
So love it when you undermine your own argument, or answer one point with the following?
1-Stop using the pedophile priests issue. You’ve beaten that horse to death. Neither the catholic church nor Catholicism as a whole are characterized by the action of those priests. No one has made that argument and no one will.
A better comparison would be the acts of violence committed in the name of Christianity and whether ‘it is demanded of the majority of moderate Christians that they denounce the extremists, AND that they actually stop them.
The fact that you demand that moderates Muslims stop the extremists among them undermines your whole point of there being moderates and extremists. What is extremism? The inability/unwillingness to be swayed by reason, the willingness to use violence in lieu of reason and non-violent methods. SO how do you imagine that the moderates clean up/reform extremism? As a the high priestess of all things islam, what do you offer?
2- What is extremism? Does what happens ‘in Mexico with the cartels qualify? In terms of numbers and barbarism, they are outmatched.
Does the murder of thousands of women in Tijuana qualify?
Does the shooting death of thousands of black people ‘in these US of A qualify?
Does the “shooting in a barrel” of thousands of Gazan women and children qualify?
Does ‘200,000 thousand dead Iraqis qualify?
How about Abu Graib?
How about launching missiles on wedding parties in Afghanistan and Yemen, killing dozens of women and children at a clip?
3- Do you know (no you don’t) that there are Jews in Iran? That there have always been Jews in Iran? That there are gays in Iran? That there are transvestites in Iran (which offers new id cards with new gender)? That there are atheists in Iran? And yes, that there are Americans in Iran?
What is this the west vs the ISlamic word? Which is the issue? Theocracy vs democracy? Christianity vs Islam?
Unless you are saying that extremism only happens in the ME, your outrage is incredibly selective.
Do you condone Scott Lively going to African countries and promoting laws that would put gay people to death? Why don’t you as a moderate Christian speak out against this? Double standard?
Karen, this is what YOU ARE confused about about. Fundamentalism DOES manifest itself in zealotry and extremism. You expect moderate Muslims to do something you are unwilling to do yourself.
Inga et al said, “As we’ve been saying, at least the ‘we’ here who are rational, it’s FUNDAMENTALISM, not religion per se.”
I said, “And then, a miracle happened, and people finally understood that it takes an extremist zealot, rather than simply a fundamentalist, to commit violence in the name of religion.”
Then Inga said, “Karen, most of us have already put together zealotry, extremism and fundamentalism.”
“Most fundamentalists are zealots. It’s not a difficult connection to make.” (This is completely false, as I have pointed out just a few examples of fundamentalist faiths with large followings that are not zealots or violent.)
“As I said, it’s fundamentalism, just what are you confused about?”
Clearly the poster is still confused. It is NOT fundamentalism OR evangelism. There are many fundamentalist and/or evangelical faiths that are completely non violent. Missionaries travel the world every day building wells and preaching what they feel is a great way to live, all without decapitating or burning anyone.
So, to be clear, fundamentalism or evangelism does not equal zealotry or extremism. In fact, people who subsistence farm using age old methods or subsistence hunt could be considered “fundamentalist” in their lifestyle.
Extremist fanatics can cross the line and commit violence in the name of their beliefs, whether it’s saving the whale or Islam or a belief in Fabio as the Supreme Leader. Whatever their motivation, it is intrinsic to their actions and cannot be discarded.
And, seriously, we have leaders in the Middle East chanting “Death to America” and “Let’s blow up America and Israel!!!” So it’s not exactly “hawkish” or a problem with Christian bigotry to consider that a problem we should deal with. Rather, it is naive and foolish to keep ignoring it and hope that it goes away while Iran frantically works on its nuclear program.
http://youtu.be/ai4tgTChw9c
Here’s another good example of a fundamentalist. Jesus would support torture, don’t you know?
We need to stop being afraid to face facts.
The Catholic Church protected pedophile priests. Even though the crimes were not done in the name of Catholicism, it was the Catholic hierarchy that kept shuffling the priests along and failed to protect the innocent. No one shied away from condemning the Church and demanding they clean up their act from within. It was irrelevant that there were also many kind, trustworthy priests.
When savagery is done in the name of Islam, it is irrelevant that there are many moderate Muslims who do no such thing. The salient point is that extremists DO, and moderate Muslims need to clean up/reform extremist Islam. Because it’s not like there are only 8 people doing this. Extremism is widespread in the Middle East. (Don’t believe me? Then travel to Iran and declare yourself a gay Jew or an apostate or just an American.) This is not the only time we’ve heard of extremist violence, which has become extremely common. Stop being scared to face facts and just deal with it.
Why do we shy away from describing a problem? Do we fear to condemn violence done in the name of atheism? Politics? Drug cartel wars? Crazy cults like Jonestown? Nope.
Ken
Pogo WILL not answer any point that he is not equipped/willing to address. He is intellectual dishonest…bad faith indeed!
Karen
Am not sure what you said!
Karen,
As I said, it’s fundamentalism, just what are you confused about? Why would I want or need to change the argument? My argument has always been that fundamentalism, which manifests itself in extremism and zealotry IS the problem. The Amish are not a good example, but one that you want to put forward to put a milder face on fundamentalism.
That’s your problem, innit?
Conclusions, jumping to.
Hmmmmmm, people who think Amish aren’t a good example of fundamentalism, claim to have understood that it’s not fundamentalism that is the problem.
No matter what Po says, the weakness of the argument is upthread for all to see:
“As we’ve been saying, at least the ‘we’ here who are rational, it’s FUNDAMENTALISM, not religion per se.”
Unfortunately, for those who want to change their argument, blog comments cannot be edited.
@Pogo HaW
“You need to re-read what I wrote.”
I hope you don’t think your sly refusal to answer the simple question fools any one concerning your bad faith.
On the contrary, it flagrantly demonstrates it.
There was a copy of the Koran up in the marina clubhouse. One of the dogs drug it out into the yard and all the dogs peed on it.
You need to re-read what I wrote.
@Jill
“One thing that seems common to these mass crimes is a sense of unquestioning rightness or justness to one’s own beliefs. Dissent or questions are not tolerated but punished. The suppression of dissent has always struck me as a profound act of weakness. It must be that members of the group really aren’t so certain of the rightness of what they believe because they need to commit incredible crimes in order to enforce conformity of thought. Why would you need to do this unless you are terribly afraid that someone might raise questions you can’t answer?”
Excellent rhetorical question and excellent post, Jill. Those who are confident of the truth value of their positions are more than willing to have them challenged, so they can be expanded, deepened, or modified. It’s the dogmatist entertaining secret doubts who doesn’t want those doubts reinforced from sources outside himself.
My personal thanks for your intelligent and humane posts, here.
Inga (Annie) says:
Karen, most of us have already put together zealotry, extremism and fundamentalism. Don’t hurt yourself patting yourself on the back for something most of us recognized long ago.
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Yep, Inga!
Glad to have you (a nurse) on board for when Karen pulls something!
Thank you for those wise words, Ken. When faith is not goodwill in action, it is merely an empty cloak.
My Shaykh used to say when the faithful sees only the devil in the human being and not He who sustains everything, he has effectively cut off the Thread that binds him to the Source.
@Ken
Yeah. Sure.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter