The Other “Big Lie”: Democrats Fuel Doubts Over the Legitimacy of the Coming Elections

Below is my column in The Hill on the increasing claims by Democrats that there is a “plot” to “steal” the 2024 election. President Joe Biden has returned to that claim in his last three major public appearances. In his press conference, President Biden referred to how Republicans want to “change the outcome of the election” and that the next election in 2024 could “easily be made illegitimate.” He added that “the increase in the prospect of being illegitimate is in direct proportion to us not being able to get these reforms passed.” If that sounds familiar, it is because it what the Democrats accused Trump of doing before the 2020 election.

Here is the column:

Napoleon Bonaparte once observed that “History is a set of lies agreed upon.” The problem today is that there is little agreement on what the lies mean when lies attributed to one party are being used by the other party to achieve the same goal.

For months, President Biden, Democratic politicians, and some in the media have hammered away at “Trump’s Big Lie” of the 2020 election. They insist that former President Trump began months before the election to plant a false narrative that changes in election laws were part of an effort to “steal” the election. However, in the last few weeks, Biden and others are pushing their own “Big Lie” that state election laws are now being changed to steal the 2022 and 2024 elections. What is most striking is how these claims are detached from the actual laws themselves — the power of this claim being based entirely upon its repetition rather than its foundation.

After the 2020 election, some of us expressed skepticism over the claims of widespread fraud but waited to see the evidence presented in court. That evidence never materialized and, while I predicted an effort to challenge the electoral votes two days after the election, I wrote that calls to challenge the certification of the election were unfounded factually and legally.

Now it is the Democrats and some in the media who are declaring a “plot to steal” the 2024 election due to electoral changes in red states. The changes are being used as an excuse to federalize elections in the United States, an area that has been largely left to the states. Indeed, these laws are portrayed as such an attack on democracy itself that refusing to curtail the Senate’s filibuster rule is not a vote for preserving a long-protected rule of consensus but being an accessory to “election subversion.”

Biden’s embrace of rage politics has fueled the hysteria surrounding these laws. Last week, CNN’s White House correspondent Stephen Collinson denounced “a nationwide effort by GOP-run states to make it harder to cast ballots and easier to steal elections, which is rooted in ex-President Donald Trump’s voter fraud lies.”

The statement was telling. In responding to Trump’s “Big Lie,” Democrats and many in the media are doing something remarkably similar by claiming these state laws are an effort to steal the coming elections — claims that might fuel anger and violence similar to that seen after the 2020 election.

What is most notable about the relentless coverage of the effort to “steal” the election is the lack of specifics. Indeed, when President Biden has attempted to give specifics, he has received “Pinocchios” from Washington Post fact-checkers. He falsely and repeatedly claimed, for example, that the Georgia law (which he described as “Jim Crow on steroids”) sought to reduce hours to vote. The election law actually does the opposite: It guaranteed that, at a minimum, polls would remain open for a full workday while allowing extended hours commonly used on Election Day.

This month, President Biden pivoted away from the false claim of preventing people from voting to the more Trumpian claim of questioning whether ballots would be counted: “not as to who can vote but who gets to count the vote, count the vote, count the vote — it’s about election subversion, not just whether or not people get to vote.” Any vote miscount allegation can be (as it was with the Trump litigation) reviewed by the courts. Indeed, many of the provisions alluded to by Democrats have been reviewed and — at least temporarily — upheld.

Requiring voter identification has been repeatedly cited as clear evidence of an effort to steal the election. However, 80 percent of the public supports voter identification rules. The courts have overwhelmingly upheld these rules as constitutional.

Nevertheless, the drumbeat of the Democrats’ “Big Lie” continues. This month, Washington Post columnist Paul Waldman heralded Biden for confronting the “Big Lie” of Trump, but claimed that elections were still being stolen: “That dagger is still held at democracy’s throat. The lie about 2020 justifies and enables all the things Republicans are doing now to establish the means and the willingness to overturn the next election.”

Once again, Waldman does not actually state how the elections are being stolen. They just are, he says.

What is most interesting is how this claim is being amplified by Biden and others despite every indication that the public isn’t buying it, with election reforms barely registering on some polls as a major concern for voters. That is the problem with big lies. If the lies are not accepted by the public, they may just reduce faith in you rather than the election. Friedrich Nietzsche observed, “I’m not upset that you lied to me, I’m upset that from now on I can’t believe you.” Biden seems to be facing such a Nietzsche moment. With polls showing the president plunging and voters turning toward the GOP, there is clearly doubt over whether there really is a “dagger at democracy’s throat.”

There are good-faith arguments over issues like voter identification and early voting. There are also good provisions in the election bill that should be adopted by states. Yet even the Atlantic and some CNN hosts have noted that some blue states have even stricter rules (including Biden’s own state of Delaware), but President Biden is not claiming that Democrats there are trying to steal elections.

States historically have been allowed to develop their own election rules. While many Democrats are calling for the federalization of elections as proof of faith in democracy, these state laws are the product of democratic processes. When President Biden went to Atlanta to denounce the Georgia law, claiming it was part of an effort to kill democracy, he was asking Georgians to support negating a law that Georgians created for themselves … in the name of democracy.

The fact is that democracy is protected by our courts — and by a host of laws protecting the right to vote and banning discrimination against minority voters. What is daunting is that this Democratic “Big Lie” is being promulgated by the president on the basis of fighting Trump’s “Big Lie.” It is like condemning Bigfoot sightings as the basis for creating a federal Bigfoot bureau.

The Democrats’ “Big Lie” may not be convincing the public, but it is clearly convincing the most extreme parts of their party. Lies can give license to those who are predisposed to violence on both sides, from Antifa to the Proud Boys. We have enough lies going into 2024. What we need is leadership.

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can find his updates on Twitter @JonathanTurley.

420 thoughts on “The Other “Big Lie”: Democrats Fuel Doubts Over the Legitimacy of the Coming Elections”

  1. Anonymous the Stupid made a big point about one being able to tell one Anonymous from the other. It was a typical stupid statement of his because the prediction was that the specific Anonymous had been deleted quite frequently. Guess what? That Anonymous comment was deleted, proving that one can mostly tell the Stupid anonymous from the others.

  2. Professor Turley,

    In Georgia, as a result of the new law, the GOP-led state legislature has reconstituted county elections boards to give them GOP majorities. Those majorities have taken actions that reduce voter access, such as removing Sunday voting (which disproportionately affects Black voters) and removing polling locations (which disproportionately affect low-income voters without a means of private transportation). How else would you describe this, other than a concerted effort to decrease voter turnout in a way that disproportionately affects Democrats in Georgia? None of this has any relation to voter fraud. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/georgia-republicans-purge-black-democrats-county-election-boards-2021-12-09/

  3. Tsk, tsk, tsk, Jonathan: now, you’re all-in. Here’s the difference between Trump’s Big Lie and what you claim are Democrats’ big lie: Democrats are not misrepresenting the truth of something that has happened, but rather, expressing concerns about new laws that could limit the rights of probable Democrats to vote, and that would allow valid votes to be discarded. There are facts supporting these concerns. That’s why you should be ashamed of your intellectual dishonesty.

    Trump began lying about his “landslide victory” being stolen long before Election Day, and despite all possible proof to the contrary, still won’t stop lying about it. Democrats, on the other hand, are worried about the depth and extent of laws mostly passed by Republican states that: 1. take over control of local election boards that control where and how elections are conducted, including the processing of ballots after they are cast; 2. that have removed Democrats from local election boards and replaced them with Republicans; 3. that criminalize providing drinking water or snacks to people forced to wait in long lines to vote (which mainly happens in Democrat polling areas, and which would be a deterrent to voting, especially in warm-weather states); 4. that allows the “discretion” to invalidate or set-aside votes–something Trump tried to bully Brad Raffensberger to do; some of the new ReTrumplican laws would allow a state election official to “find” votes that aren’t there; 5. that limits the types of ID that are acceptable–either to register to vote or to cast a ballot; 6. that won’t allow same-day registration; 7. that would invalidate a ballot if, for example, a voter used their SSN to register, but used their driver’s license to request an absentee ballot (this concern was raised by a Texas judge in an interview I saw this very morning. The judge noted that people are reluctant to disclose their SSN because they don’t know who might gain access to it, so if they used it to register they might submit their driver’s license number (which could easily be verified by an election official) to cast a ballot (either can be used to vote absentee), but if the voter didn’t use the same form of ID for BOTH registering and voting, their ballot would be automatically rejected); 8. that would disallow weekend voting (no church buses taking “souls to the polls” any more–something common with black churches with congregations that don’t have transportation); 9. that would curtail other early voting and extended hours, which hampers the ability of working-class people to be able to vote; 10. that allows “poll watchers” to stand uncomfortably close to people casting their ballots, which is a form of intimidation.

    You are, as is becoming usual, twisting or distorting the facts: Democrats do NOT oppose requiring identification to vote. They DO oppose curtailing the types of ID that are acceptable–for instance, requiring someone who doesn’t drive to go to a BMV to get a photo ID, and refusing other forms of identification, like student IDs, even those with photos. And, the Georgia law did limit the number of days for early voting, so while the law requires that polls stay open for a full day, limiting the number of days, IS limiting the right to vote, because some people have trouble getting time off from work, especially those in service industries. People who must work long hours, nights, evenings and weekends need flexibility in order to be able to cast their ballot in person. Some states also require proof of a valid “reason” to vote absentee. What is the reason behind these and other changes other than the Big Lie? These measures are NOT correcting any actual problems, but are creating new ones that ReTrumplicans think will benefit them. The John Lewis Voting Act would make Election Day a federal holiday and would extend early voting, create consistent, universal rules for absentee voting, prevent partisan control of local election boards and makes other universal rules that make it easier to vote and to prevent valid votes from being rejected for trivial reasons. It’s sort of like abortion: they can’t actually completely outlaw it, but they can make so many rules and erect so many barriers that it has the same practical effect.

  4. @Jeff,

    Most of the cases never made it to discovery or allowing evidence to be presented. The cases were dismissed due to lack of standing.
    (Which begs some questions. )

    Of the cases which did go to court, Trumps team won most of them.

    The issue is that in the 2020 election, there were multiple anomalies along w actions taken that were not legal.
    The key of reviewing the 2020 election was to address those issues.

    Biden wants Omicron to be massive so that they can promote ways to make the election less secure.

    Voter IDs? Free clue. Over 150M people voted. IDs? Heck anyone can get one. Just ask all of those illegal aliens / undocumented people.

    If having to show an ID is racist, then its racist to get on a plane. Buy alcohol. etc … all those things that require proof of identification.

    -Gumby

    1. Instead of arguing ad nauseum about the validity Trump’s complaints about his “landslide victory” being stolen, why not read the extensive Disciplinary Complaint issued by the State of New York when it issued an order of emergency suspension of his law license? It details all of the lies that Giuliani put into legal pleadings he filed with various courts, explaining why there was absolutely NO factual foundation whatsoever for any of the things he claimed. And, BTW, the usual evidentiary standard for suspending or revoking a professional license is “clear and convincing evidence”, which is a higher standard than “preponderance of the evidence” and one step below “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

      If Biden “wanted” Omicron to be “massive”, then why has he done everything humanly possible to bring it under control, including vaccine mandates, making vaccines available at no cost, providing N95 masks, providing tests and every other possible thing that could be done to bring it under control? Where’s there any proof that the 2020 election was NOT secure? Chris Krebs, head of US Cybersecurity, says it was the most-secure election in US history. Why don’t you believe him?

      1. “Chris Krebs, head of US Cybersecurity, says it was the most-secure election in US history. Why don’t you believe him?”

        Because he issued that statement weeks *before* some states had even finished counting the votes. (But, then, you already knew that.)

      2. Natacha: It’s “ad nauseam,” not “ad nauseum.” Now I know for sure that you are not a lawyer and you get all your information off the I-net.”

  5. Song:
    Donald Trump is his name ..
    He rode off with Robert E. Lee!
    Bobby Lee doesn’t like Trump so he…
    Dumped him into the sea!
    The night! They rode old Trumpster down!
    All the people are saying…
    Nazi, Nazi guy
    All the bells are ringing…
    Hitler’s back to kill some guys …

  6. And I’ll repeat what I said:

    The evidence never materialized BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST! The audits proved that no massive vote fraud occurred. In a court of law, there is no difference between evidence not materializing and not existing. Either way, the case is dismissed. Except that these Trump lawyers did not act in good faith unlike honest lawyers.

    1. And I will repeat what I said. .I agree with your statement that in a court of law, there is little difference when it comes to dismissal. But you declined to admit the context and import of what the professor said, i.e.,”… but waited to see the evidence presented in court.THAT evidence never materialized.” (emphasis mine). Instead, you globalized it to a “there is no evidence” statement and context. I am done with this nonsense. thanks anyway

      1. I will agree that “not materializing” is not exactly the same as “not existing”, but what difference does it make? Counselor, if I may say, you are making a distinction without a legal significance.

        1. But…never forget that Trump began lying about his “landslide victory” being stolen long before Election Day because polls predicted he would lose. The rest of the world must be shaking their heads at how such a powerful country like America could have a substantial number of citizens who continue to believe a former realty TV performer who lied about his “victory” being “stolen” because he cannot accept the truth that he lost the election. You faithful disciples continue to believe even though all proof proves that Trump lost. You continue to believe that, somehow, Trump will be exonerated.

          1. It’s true, Natacha, Turley is being intellectually dishonest when he says:

            “For months, President Biden, Democratic politicians, and some in the media have hammered away at “Trump’s Big Lie” of the 2020 election. They insist that former President Trump began months before the election to plant a false narrative that changes in election laws were part of an effort to “steal” the election.”

            We don’t insist! As if to imply that it is simply our contention. It’s a FACT that Trump began months before the election planting the Big Lie. Turley knows this, but he does not want to state publicly that IT IS, in fact, a lie because his employer is being sued for defamation for promoting it.

          2. Read Mollie Hemingways book ‘Rigged.’

            Drop boxes & ballot harvesting & Antifa activists posing as poll watchers & Zuckerbucks….oh my!

            Have a margarita!

            Watch some football…

            and listen real close for the FJB chants filling every stadium across the country.

          3. The truth will come out.

            Dems know it, too. They know what they did.

            2022 is going to be a near extinction-level event for the Democrat party.

            That’s why they are brazenly lying…and frantically trying…..to ram thru their Hail Mary “voting rights” bill.

            “Voting rights” is the Dems’ Big Fat Lie.

            1. “2022 is going to be a near extinction-level event for the Democrat party.”

              Anything is possible. The reality, however, is that most working Democrats and most working Republicans and Independents have more in common with each other than they do with the leadership in Washington. It takes both parties to make such a mess of things.

              Politicians, for the most part, look after themselves. The people have to focus on policy, not Parties.

    2. Hey JeffSilberman, the post is about Biden doing the same thing that Trump did in saying that an election may no be legitimate. Turley points out Biden’s hypocrisy in using the questioning of an election in the same manner as Trump. If Democrats say it’s a spoiled election it must be honey from the gods. If Republications say there are questions about an election it must come from the deepest pit of hell. Your deflection from the point that the good Professor is making is duly noted as your common response born from your unquestionable pursuit of fairness. Thank you for your words of wisdom oh all mighty one.

      1. Biden is pointing out that all of the laws passed by mostly Republican states after 2020 were motivated by Trump’s Big Lie and are designed to make it more difficult for probable Democrats to vote. He is not lying about the facts of past events. Trump is not “questioning” the election–he started before Election Day claiming it was “rigged”, so there were even more poll watchers than usual. Trump keeps on claiming that his vainglorious “victory” was “stolen”, despite the fact that all proof establishes that Biden beat him, just like polls predicted. He fired Chris Krebs and Bill Barr for not going along with the Big Lie.

        Turley is intellectually dishonest in his feeble attempts to equate lies about past events, and concerns about the effects of recent laws on future events.

  7. I’m certain that NASA engineers could figure out how to hold elections so that all eligible voters are not disenfranchised. That however is not the problem that the engineers would be asked to solve. The current “Mission” is apparently to design a system that would “safely” put a political party in power. And because of that, we have political “engineers” working the problem. This is not that difficult to figure out.

  8. You say to yourself, “it’s just not possible that a human could possibly be so nefarious.” Then you look at the prison population and you shudder. The expected results from a political party that has no moral fibber should not be surprising.

  9. North Carolina is a prime example of how Democrats manipulate the Election Laws, Gerrymander. Districts, and use the Courts to gain political advantage.

    Remember the Democrats controlled the State Government for about 140 years following the Civil War….continously…..holding both Houses of the General Assembly and the Governor’s Office.

    Gerrymandering was a basic tool for all of those years.

    Currently…we are in yet another Court Battle (every time one suit is settled….the Democrats or a supporting organization files another…and another…and another) ham stringing the Board of Elections and Primary and General Elections.

    They have a friendly group sue….then the State AG enters into a settlement WITHOUT gaining the Legislature’s approval or Council of State approval.

    Right now…we have a Democrat Governor and Democrat AG work together to stymie the Republican Majorities in the General Assembly.

    Now…we have a Court Case before the State Supreme Court re the latest Re-districting effort, one that was done in the clear view of the Public via live TV, public access to the room while the effort was on-going, and Democrat observers and participation WELCOMED.

    The Democrats were unhappy about it.

    The Republicans complied with State Law, Federal Law, the State Constitution, and made every effort to be open and transparent…..the Democrats were unhappy about it.

    The reason….due to all of the above …..Republicans wound up with an advantage….not because of some sneaky scheme….but due to the population distribution amongst the many Counties.

    We have a Constitutional Crisis looming…..depending upon how the State Supreme Court decides…..a Court that has an overwhelming Democrat majority to include one Democrat who is campaigning for his own re-election to the Court (but so far has not recused himself as two other predecessors have done in the past in that exact same circumstance).

    If the State Supreme Court (think Democrat Majority including the Justice running for re-election) vote to dictate how the new Districts shall be drawn…..the State Law and State Constitution does not grant them that power.

    Primaries have been postponed due to the Court Case….as we have to have the District Matter settled before candidates can determine where they can file or if they can file.

    The General Assembly by party line vote just voted to schedule Primaries for June….as by State Law they have to provide two weeks notice….and the time line for the State Supreme Court decision forces that long of a delay.

    Even then….should the Court deign to assume it has the power to draw or force the method by which the Districts are drawn….there shall probably be a need for the General Assembly to either ignore that Ruling altogether or sue the Governor should he attempt to implement that decision.

    That would kick the case to the US Federal Court system.

    Read up on this…..it. is a very interesting situation.

  10. When asked, specifically, about the 2022 election, Biden responded: “They are trying to change the outcome of the election.”

    Coming from any cognizant human, I would call this a Freudian Slip; from Biden, I can’t be sure. Nevertheless, I think it is indicative of a mindset that the normal outcome of an election, any election, would be the Democratic Party candidate being declared the winner. And that any efforts to change that outcome, including garnering more votes, is suspect and can only be the result of bad acts on the part of the Republicans.

    I think Joe Biden said the quiet part out loud, but he says so much that is incoherent, people didn’t recognize it for the admission that it is.

  11. If the supporters of Joe Biden and his Administration actually continue to talk the way they’re talking about voting and stealing elections, the possibility of street violence rises from a possibility to a probability.

      1. Proof of fear is the Jan 6 committee stated of goal of preventing President Trump from winning the Presidency back. 46% percent of Democrats do not want Biden to run for re-election. That is proof of fear.

          1. Yeah Joe Biden ain’t a pathological liar, eh? He’s a politician! Come on, man!

            You know what they say, and it’s true: how do you know a politician is lying?

            His lips are moving.

            Trump kept his campaign promises. One year in, we cannot say the same for Biden.

    1. I think so, too. They do not have a problem with that. The summer of 2020 alone should be enough reason for any thinking person to never vote dem again.

  12. Before Shelby County v. Holder the national government had divided the States into favored and disfavored parcels. Reconstruction style, the disfavored States had a found history of discrimination. By statute the disfavored had to obtain pre-clearance from the Article ll DOJ before exercising their legislative prerogative to change State election law. That ended when the Shelby Court found that the discrimination history had ended, and with it the need for Section 4 DOJ pre-clearance. In effect the Court sunsetted pre-clearance, and put all the States back on equal footing with each other. Just like the Constitution provides. How can we entertain the argument of the current Article l majority party that pre-clearance must rise from the grave to save democracy when our Article lll people say it must rest in peace?

    1. Mike, that’s a great synopsis. Democrats keep spitting out the same talking point about the voting rights act, and how the need to pass new law to replace the old…THAT SCOTUS DECLARED UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
      Democrats demand unconstitutional Nationalizaton of elections. (shhh. just a little “work around”)

      Notice how often the Democrat Party seeks “work arounds” to advance their agenda that lacks suffiecient support of the People, to legislate their plan?

      1. iowan2, the newest attempt by the Democrats to nationalize elections, would turn America into a one party country, much like the CCP in China. But, the lies keep coming from the Democrats. They continue their big lie that the GOP is trying to disenfranchise people from voting…without a shred of proof. But, if anyone asks them to justify that lie, the cries of racism are used to shut off any further questions.
        Until that tactic ends, there will never be any real discussions, only slogans and misinformation (lies).

      2. Guess Biden’s 81 million votes are illegitimate, then. These people do not listen to themselves speak, and they think we have the brains of amoeba.

    2. Mike Gilmore: Yes, and now the Dems are referring to Shelby as the “Supreme Court gutting the voting rights act.” They are truly a mendacious party.

  13. Babylon Bee had it best: “Democrats accuse Republicans of trying to steal the election by blocking Democrats from stealing the election” As the Bee Motto says ” Fake news you can trust”

      1. Good reference and very true. Understand that the modern voter under 30 voter was never taught to tie their shoes ot notice that the sky is blue, let alone read such lofty tomes. Those are the people we are contending with going forward.

  14. The Democrats went around changing state election procedures and laws in the lead up to the 2020 elections effectively making it easier to cheat in key swing states and districts.

    This “voting rights” nonsense the Democrats are pushing in their bill is the Dems’ attempt to federalize voting rules, taking that power away from the states, and making permanent the dramatically loosened election rules allowed in 2020 because of Covid.

    It is NOT about voting “rights.” It’s about eroding election integrity, taking away states’ rights, and making it easier to cheat in elections for Democrats.

    It must suck to know your Dem Party outright lies so blatantly all day long….as if you’re stupid but useful idiots who keep voting for them.

      1. Zuckerbucks!

        “The 2020 presidential election witnessed an unprecedented and coordinated public-private partnership to improperly influence the 2020 presidential election on behalf of one particular candidate and party.Funded by hundreds of millions of dollars from Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg and other high-tech interests, activist organizations created a two-tiered election system that treated voters differently depending on whether they lived in Democrat or Republican strongholds.
        Private monies dictated city and county election management contrary to both federal law and state election plans endorsed and developed by state legislatures with authority granted by the United States Constitution..”

  15. “For months, President Biden, Democratic politicians, and some in the media have hammered away at “Trump’s Big Lie” of the 2020 election. They insist that former President Trump began months before the election to plant a false narrative that changes in election laws were part of an effort to “steal” the election. However, in the last few weeks, Biden and others are pushing their own “Big Lie” that state election laws are now being changed to steal the 2022 and 2024 elections. What is most striking is how these claims are detached from the actual laws themselves — the power of this claim being based entirely upon its repetition rather than its foundation
    ******************************
    Oh stop! The Dims are good people. They like kitties, love bums along with all manner of misfits and ne’er-do-wells and have a special place in their hearts for those who would do harm to others. They love anyone not an American and if you’re the dependent type they are the best of enablers you could imagine or even not imagine! They love the weak, the easily led and the disarmed. They never let prinicple stand in the way of power today no matter how passionately they defended that principle as absolutely essential just yesterday. And to top it off, they — and they alone – who are the source of all human virtue. In fact, they get to define it, redefine it and absolutely pulverize it whenever the fancy strikes them. They truly are the Master Race! Hey, where have I heard that phrase before?

    1. mespo, you are entirely correct, except for one thing. The Dims don’t actually “like” those who you described as ne’er-do-wells. They have made that claim for years, but clearly have done nothing to help those people they “claim” to like. That is the story of every blue State, County and City, that the Dims have run into the ground. They get the votes with promises, which are never kept and the big losers are those who actually still believe them.

  16. As I have said in the past this Democrat party will either blame you for what they have already done or blame you for what they plan to do. The scouts have already been put in place. I wouldn’t doubt that a new and deadlier variant of COVID19 will soon arrive making it impossible for voters go to vote in person. Everyone even dead uncle Jed will have to submit a mail in.

  17. I agree with much of what you wrote about the 2020 elections and that Trump and his team failed to get the proof and the courts rightly decided that. And I am a conservative republican. They were illegal actions taken to expand ballot mailing and absentee voting that cast a great deal of doubt but no substantive proof of a stolen election.
    The resulting changes in many states on election laws are well founded and have been previously supported by the Supreme Court since they affirmed Indiana’s voter id law with a much more liberal court.
    Why do we not have voter ID in every state? It is incredibly easy to obtain and almost impossible to function in our economy without ID.
    I voted in Georgia in the 1960’s when you had to take a test first to prove you were “educated and smart enough to vote”. Since then the Voting Rights Act ended that abomination. I voted in Texas where it was commonly joked that Lyndon Johnson and others could unanimously carry the cemetery vote.
    Seems to me voter ID is the best arbiter for legitimate elections. Checking and updating the voter roles to see who has died and have them stricken from voting is only reasonable. Voting rolls could be compared to deaths with social security numbers easily. It’s called computerization. I can vote in any precinct in my county in Indiana and get the ballot specific to the area I live in. It’s possible everywhere with proper security.
    I usually avoid comparing to Europe but all states there use voter ID except the UK and they are in the process of changing to voter ID. Many prohibit absentee ballots and all prohibited ballot harvesting. India (1.4 billion) has voter ID and they are an even more diverse nation than the US. They argue over policies, not whether the vote was legitimate.
    You have to think of the recent voting rights bill as a 6 step process. 1-break the filibuster, 2-remove voter ID, 3-wide open borders 4-universal amnesty, 5-then an abbreviated trip to citizenship or no citizenship required for voting. 6-then an election that radically changes the US, Thats what everyone refuses to talk about but that is the greatest fear of this law.

    1. GEB,

      “ They were illegal actions taken to expand ballot mailing and absentee voting that cast a great deal of doubt but no substantive proof of a stolen election.”

      They weren’t illegal. If they were they would have been declared so by the courts. They were CLAIMED to be illegal, but those pushing and making the claims didn’t have any evidence to present.

      Expanding mail-in voting and absentee voting very done in order to deal with the pandemic. No court declared such actions illegal. Republicans were claiming they were only because they were aware that it wasn’t against the law, but they couldn’t really do anything about it. So they claimed fraud and abuse without evidence. You have to have evidence in order to prove in court that your claims have merit. Mere allegations and conjecture is not evidence of the claims.

      The doubt was the product of those who were making such claims without proof of the allegations. They were making stuff up, lying.

      1. Svelez

        Judges have found some of the changes illegal. Other Judges just defered due to time. Some Judges declared the changes legal, despite the lack of statutory language delegating such powers. People like Raffensberbger signed desent decrees allowing the change with parties have no statutory standing.

        These are the things the legislatures are cleaning up. If changes are taking place at the local level, the Legislature has created statatory pathways to address those changes without relying on the whim of a Judge that has accountability.

      2. Wisconsin just ruled the drop boxes were illegal. In Pa the rules changes that were made were done illegally. But the election is over. Did those illegal activities change the outcome? We’ll never know for sure and now Biden putting the same doubt into this years election. Remember Stacy Abrams claims, same thing. Al Gores dangling chads? Political theatre to undermine the legitimacy of the elected person.
        The consequences, once confidence in elections is sufficiently weakened, riots and violence will be the norm.

        1. Guys like Svelaz will deny the truth even when placed in front of their eyes. They keep asking for proof. Enigma did the same, I refused to provide anything for him because it is a nonending game, but I will offer it here. This was posted previously, but of course, Enigma never saw it and neither did Svelaz, though in his case, he will lie no matter what.

          “Judge rules absentee ballot drop boxes illegal in Wisconsin, regulators must retract guidance
          This is the second court decision that has deemed the Wisconsin Election Commission’s 2020 election behavior unlawful.” https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/wisconsin-judge-rules-absentee-ballot-drop-boxes-illegal-election?utm_source=breaking&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

          1. S. Meyer says, “ They keep asking for proof. Enigma did the same, I refused to provide anything for him because it is a nonending game, but I will offer it here.”

            Problem is you never provided the proof. You only “refused” because you didn’t have it.

            The Wisconsin ruling is being appealed. It’s not a definitive ruling on the matter. Nice try though.

            1. Because the wording and the terms used require a bit of intelligence, you keep making two fundamental mistakes.

              1)Only Comirnaty has full approval.
              2)The products are legally distinct different

              https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/qa-comirnaty-covid-19-vaccine-mrna

              I can provide loads more proof, but you don’t have the intelligence of a snail, so I doubt you will understand the rest any more than you understand this FDA statement. I made things easy for you and provided the two bits of information you need to learn.

              1. S. Meyer,

                “ 1)Only Comirnaty has full approval.
                2)The products are legally distinct different”

                Good grief man. You’re really a bona fide dumba$$.

                There is only ONE product. Your proof doesn’t say they are two “legally” distinct products. What it does say is that there are two types of APPROVALS for the same vaccine. The FULL approval is for COMIRNATY (the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine for those 16 and older. Your own proof states clearly that COMIRNATY is the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

                What you are confusing yourself with is the difference between the vaccine being fully approved for those 16 and older and the SAME vaccine still under EUA (emergency use authorization) for those 12 years and older.

                Your proof is just a Q&A from the FDA website. Here’s the source of your failure to comprehend begins.

                “ How did the FDA arrive at the decision to approve Comirnaty (COVID-19 Vaccine mRNA)? What is different now when compared to the December 2020 authorization of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine?”

                Notice that they are now using “Cominarty” the official commercial name of the vaccine by putting in parentheses, these, “( )” what they are/were PREVIOUSLY known “(COVID -19 Vaccine mRNA)”. Often known to us local yokels as the “Pfizer vaccine”. All those labels are referring to only ONE product. Even your own proof is telling you that. Geez S. Meyer. You really are dense.

                1. One cannot engage with a fool. What I said comes directly from the FDA document. Whether the they are identical or not has little to do with this discussion. Comirnaty was approved, BioNTech was not, which is what the discussion was all about.

                  It is impossible to go further with an idiot.

      3. voting very done in order to deal with the pandemic. No court declared such actions illegal.
        Judges are often wrong.

        The 9th circuit just declared states forcing gun shops and firing ranges closed for covid,(under emergency rules) violated the Constitution. My point is, the pandemic was too often used as an excuse to strip people of their rights….And Judges just don’t care.

        Judges are just as fallible as anyone.

  18. The Death of Democracy!

    ‘According to the CNN/NBC axis, you as an American have 2 choices and 2 choices only:

    (1) Do everything possible to ensure that the Democratic Party wins the 2022 midterm election, or (2) Watch as democracy dies and a fascist takeover rules America. Govern yourselves accordingly’

    @glenngreenwald

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