Below is my column in Fox.com on the discovery of highly classified documents in a closet in the private office used by President Joe Biden before 2020. There is still much that we do not know about the documents, though many in the media have already dismissed the matter as no way comparable to the controversy at Mar-a-Lago. Legally, the underlying potential offense of unlawfully possessing classified material is the same, though there are obvious differences in the two cases. Yet, what has been lost may be as serious as any crime for Democrats: clarity. Indeed, the potential crime itself was quickly dismissed by press and pundits who previously insisted that the mere possession of such documents endangered national security and warranted prosecution.
Here is the column:
In the movie classic “Three Days of the Condor,” John Houseman played a weathered spymaster who spoke of the good old days after the Great War “before we knew enough to number them.” When a subordinate asked if he missed “that kind of action,” Houseman responds dryly, “Nope. I miss that kind of clarity.”
The Democrats may soon have the same lament. We have too many scandals to number, but what they will miss most after the discovery of highly classified documents in the president’s former private office is the clarity. With the discovery, Democrats have lost the clarity and separation with Trump. There are clear differences in the two scandals, but those differences could be lost in the echo of Biden’s own words on the mishandling of classified material.
Last year, President Biden was asked by CBS’ Scott Pelley on “60 Minutes,” “When you saw the photograph of the top secret documents laid out on the floor at Mar-a-Lago, what did you think to yourself looking at that image?”
Biden seem to struggle to find words to express his revulsion: “How that could possibly happen, how one anyone could be that irresponsible. And I thought what data was in there that may compromise sources and methods.”
Washington is in full spin control with pundits who previously said that even a misdemeanor conviction of Trump should bar him from ever running again for federal office.
Again, there are distinctions, but we still do not know the full facts, including whether additional classified material has been previously returned or whether additional material may be located in other offices. Nevertheless, there is no allegation of false statements or obstruction.
What is most striking is how this could have easily been far, far worse if the Bidens had gotten their way on the alternative office that was discussed following their departure from government. Rather than the Penn Center, their effective landlord would have been Chinese associates with close ties to Beijing.
For those of us who have followed the Biden influence peddling scandal, one of the benefits that Joe Biden was supposed to receive from Chinese associates was an office that he would use regularly.
In 2017, Hunter Biden asked that keys be made for his new “office mates,” listing his father, Joe Biden, Jill Biden and his uncle, Jim Biden. He said that they planned to share the space with Gongwen Dong, whom he described as an “emissary” for Chairman Ye Jianming — the chairman of CEFC Chinese Energy Co. Hunter Biden also asked for set of keys of Gongwen Dong. The manager was even asked to change the names on the front door to include Joe and Jill Biden.
The arrangement appears to have fallen to the wayside with other aspects of the Chinese deals. Instead, the Bidens found another source at the University of Pennsylvania to cover their office needs.
What is not known is whether some of this classified material was relevant to Biden’s book and his lectures on diplomacy, raising the possibility that he worked with the documents on computers or discussed them with third parties. In the meantime, they apparently sat in a closet, easy pickings for any intelligence service.
While the media continues to dismiss the influence peddling investigation as, in the words this weekend of NBC’s Chuck Todd, a “personal” attack, it is far more serious as a form of corruption due to an array of dangers from such access. The millions given to Hunter Biden came from a variety of foreign sources, including some coming from figures tied to foreign intelligence. This money not only gained influence but access to the Bidens.
Hunter himself stated that foreign intelligence used hotel rooms to steal his files. A videotape purportedly shows Biden claiming that one of his laptops was stolen by Russians for blackmail purposes.
Putting aside the lack of media interest in Biden’s claim, there is no information on any investigation by the FBI that blackmail material may have been acquired on the Bidens.
The danger of influence peddling is that it is not only the preferred avenue for corruption in Washington, but it often allows dangerous levels of access to targeted leaders.
Even if the public dodged this danger on the Chinese-funded office, it was not due to any lack of effort by the Bidens. The question now is how the public can feel confident that the FBI will show the same vigor in investigating the Bidens as it did Trump.
Attorney General Merrick Garland knows that many citizens no longer trust the government and his current position will only deepen those misgivings. There is growing unease over the litany of controversies over political bias at the FBI, including calls for a new “Church Committee” to look into reforms.
At the same time, Garland has maintained an incomprehensible position in refusing to appoint a special counsel to investigate the Biden influence peddling controversy and other issues. He has done so despite clear evidence that the President had lied in denying any knowledge of his son’s foreign dealings and repeated references to the President getting a possible cut or benefits (including the Chinese-funded office) from the deals.
Garland’s position now borders on the comical. He announced that he was compelled to appoint a special counsel on the Mar-a-Lago and other possible offenses by Trump after he officially became a candidate for the 2024 presidential election. At the time, some of us noted that Biden is actually the president but Garland was steadfastly refusing to make such an appointment.
Now Biden stands accused of the same underlying offense as Mar-a-Lago. While there have not been false statement or obstruction claims raised, it is unclear what allegations will emerge. More importantly, the offense of unlawfully removing and storing classified information is the same. Yet, Garland again refused to appoint a special counsel and will keep the matter within the DOJ rank-and-file.
Biden can count on every possible consideration and accommodation from the media. The public is used to that. However, Garland will undermine both investigations by continuing to block the appointment of a special counsel into Biden and his family.
The Biden discovery will complicate the narrative for many in Washington, particularly those who previously took the position that knowing possession alone justifies a criminal charge. When added to the Hillary Clinton destruction of tens of thousands of emails and use of unsecure private servers, Garland may be creating the greatest credibility crisis for the Justice Department in decades. It is due his framing of these investigations.
It is all part of the incredible shrinking Merrick Garland. At a time that leadership is demand, Garland is again evading his most difficult obligation to show total independence from his president in seeking both the full facts and full accountability in a scandal. Otherwise, he will fuel the mistrust over the treatment of the two scandals and many more, beyond the president, and future generations will likely ask “how anyone could be that irresponsible.”
In a nutshell. Regardless of who mishandled top secret information it was still mishandled. The difference in response to such mishandling tells the tale. On the one hand it was sanctimonious shock. On the other hand it is the nothing burger defense. The left just can’t stand the exposer that proves that they too are guilty of the same offense. They cant stand it when they are made to look the fool. Fools may loudly resist but they are fools none the less. Biden often brings up his deceased son. Since the top secret documents were mixed with memorabilia of his son you can damn well know that he knew they were there. Claiming innocence just doesn’t pass the smell test. Abandoned top secret documents and abandoned laptops. Very curious.
Tit: No. In a nutshell, Trump deliberately STOLE classified documents, lied about having them, voluntarily returned only a select few, knowingly retained more, had his lawyer sign a perjured affidavit saying all had been returned, then forced the NARA and DOJ to obtain a search warrant to get the rest. The documents had been kept in areas to which the public had access. He made up a fairy tale about mentally declassifying them, and claimed, and still claims they belong to him. As a final slap in the face, he fundraised over it, portraying himself as some kind of victim. There’s no evidence that Biden intentionally took the papers, which were kept in a locked closet in a secure office to which the public did not have access. He immediately notified the NARA when they were discovered and voluntarily turned them over. Biden had less than 12 documents, of which only a couple were classified. Trump had over 100, of which 60 were “top secret”. After receiving the initial subpoena to which Trump only partially complied, security tape footage shows Trump employees going through boxes, shuffling contents, and moving some of them to other locations. It’s not an “offense” to inadvertently possess classified documents–it’s how the matter is handled after discovery that determines whether a criminal offense has occurred–and that’s only all the difference in the world. Trump’s intentional theft, multiple lies and defiant refusal to return the documents makes him criminally culpable. The situations couldn’t be more different.
You use the handle “think it through”, but your posts prove you’re nothing but another disciple.
How could Biden “inadvertently” possess classified documents. Did he somehow take them by mistake without knowing it when he left office?
Will all Biden’s residences and offices now be searched to see what other classified documents he may still “inadvertently” possess?
MaL (not all of Trump’s residences) was searched because of an affidavit attesting that there was still material with classified markings at MaL, after the DOJ asked him to search for and return any additional materials with classified markings, and Christina Bobb signed a statement that she’d been told that a search was carried out and none remained. Warrants are issued on probable cause. What’s the probable cause for issuing a warrant for Biden’s residences? He is currently President, so it’s wholly appropriate for him to review classified material, and no doubt there is a SCIF at his residences. The issue is not whether he currently possesses classified info, but that (a) it was in his possession when he was out of office, and (b) it was not properly secured.
ATS you are twisting facts and garbage into a pretzel and then saying it’s a straight line. The American Indian would say, you speak with forked tongue.
Just heard a report that another stash of classified documents has now been found in Biden’s possession.
OMG! Say it ain’t so, Daniel! I cannot…finish this…sentence…because…I….am……fainting…….in…………………disbelief.
Again: what’s the probable cause for issuing a warrant for Biden’s residences? You didn’t say.
“In a nutshell, Trump deliberately STOLE classified documents”
This is an incredibly stupid argument.
If Trump DELIBERATELY took Classified documents from the WH personally or ordered others to do so while president
THEY ARE DECLASSIFIED.
The ONLY Way Trump can Steal Classified documents is by sneaking over the WH fence on Jan 21, 2021.
The rest of what you assert is almost entirely false, and irrelevant – especially if you are correct that Trump Deliberately removed classified documents.
By YOUR logic – NARA clearly dropped the Ball with regard to Biden.
You say Trump lied to NARA.
Did Biden Lie to NARA ? Did NARA even ASK Biden ?
Does Biden have more government and classified documents he STOLE elsewhere ?
Biden was VP not President. Presidents can not mentally declassify documents. But they can do so by act – a president removing a classified document from government posession declassifies. it.
A Vice President doing the same is a violation of the espionage act.
What about Obama ? Home many classified documents does he have at Martha’s Vinyard ?
In Oak Park ? Other places they should not be ?
What about Bush ? Chenney ? Clinton ? Gore ?
Has NARA asked any of them ?
What might they be hiding ?
18 USC 793(f) has a “gross negligence” standard which would appear likely to apply here. Especially because Biden has now said he was not aware he was even in possession of the documents. Sounds grossly negligent to me.
Depends on whether he’s the one who took the documents there. Could be gross negligence on someone else’s part.
Biden was the person previously in lawful possession of the documents, and the statute criminalises gross negligence by that person in permitting them to be held in a manner that might damage the national defence.
In any event, if some of the documents are top secret sci as has been reported, there is certainly a potential violation of the statute here and a clear conflict of interest, which are the conditions for the appointment of a special counsel.
It has now been reported that another stash of classified documents has been found in Biden’s possession.
“Biden was the person previously in lawful possession of the documents”
How do you know (rather than believe) that?
It’s worth repeating…If it weren’t for double-standards, Leftists wouldn’t have any standards at all.
I have to wonder if they sleep with one eye open at night because they know one day, perhaps not today, perhaps not tomorrow, but one day, The People will have had enough and will demonstrate that ‘fed-up-ness’ with actions and means Leftists simply can’t fathom.
It’s worth repeating: mere possession of classified documents, if not intentional, is not a crime. Trump delliberatly took the classifed documents because he claimed they were his property, which they werent, rerfused to return them upon subpoena, forced the DOJ to get a search warrant and then fundraised over it. Trump’s a pathological liar and narcissist.
“It’s worth repeating: mere possession of classified documents, if not intentional, is not a crime.”
Glad to hear that you are finally accepting that.
That said it is a crime to transfer classified documents from a secure government location to a private location.
Ex-VP Biden’s offices in DE are likely a secure government location – I am less sure about ex-VPs. But Ex-presidents, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump maintain presidential offices that are considered government fascilities and typically have a SCIF – a locked closet for classified material.
The UofP Biden Center is NOT a government fascility.
While mere posession is not a crime – how you get posession is likely.
Biden Center can not legal contain Classified documents.
“Trump delliberatly took the classifed documents because he claimed they were his property”
Which he can legally do as President. – which Vice Presidents can not do.
“which they werent”
They are if is says they are.
“refused to return them upon subpoena,”
So ? If they are declassified he need not return them.
“forced the DOJ to get a search warrant”
Nope, the way to enforce a supena which has no actual authority is with a court order.
“and then fundraised over it.”
And he is going to fund raise over this – and every other stupid mistake those of you on the left make.
“Trump’s a pathological liar and narcissist.”
It is likely that every elected official is a narcist.
What has Trump lied about ?
BTW there is an interview of Biden in 2018 at the opening of the Biden center where he is asked if he has classified material and he says that he does not.
Gigi – “Intentionality” is not an issue. Flatly, it is not illegal to merely possess classified documents. The NYT and WP had possession of hundreds of highly classfied documents in the Pentagon Papers leak, and probably many other instances, and so far no one at either paper has gone to jail. James Comey “knowingly” holds classified documents today and nobody bothers himself about it. The classified documents hoax is just the latest hoax used against Trump.
You are wrong. Intention is not required. Under 18 USC 793(f) gross negligence is enough.
Daniel – 18 USC 793 deals with documents and instruments “relating to national defense.” These are not necessarily the same as “classified documents.” Further, subsection (f) deals with ND documents that are moved “in violation of [the actor’s] trust” . I can’t imagine if being alleged that a President or Vice-President is not entruted with either classified or ND documents. The President is the Commander-in-Chief.
Daniel – my comment above was wrongly worded. Subsection (f) does deal with ND documents moved “in violation of [the actor’s] trust. What I should have then said was: it is inconceivable that a President especially, as C-I-C, is not entrusted to move the documents anywhere and any time. His or her access and control of these documents is absolute. Thus, there cannot be a movement of NDI documents “in violation of his/her trust.” This subsection is not intended to apply to Presidents. It obviously applies to subordinates who entrusted with limited duties.
Trump failed to turn over docs when requested, and failed to fully comply with a Grand Jury Subpoena for the docs; his attorney falsely claimed all had been turned over. Trump erroneously claims the docs belong to him. Trump’s docs were in a hotel, Biden’s in a secure office. Otherwise, the cases are identical (oops: except for the quantity,).
Fred, you have no idea what security was applied to Biden’s office after he left it. Nor do you have any idea what security was applied to Trumps office at Mara Largo. Your opinion would be more respected if you stuck to things that you do know. Sloppy insinuating proves nothing and diminishes your reputation. Duly noted.
MAL is open to the public when a member hosts a party, wedding or other event, and some of the classified papers were in a locker next to the swimming pool used by members and their guests. The PennBiden office is NOT open to the public. Trump admitted he took the papers on purpose because he claimed “they’re mine”–no, they weren’t. When that lie didn’t fly, he made up a story about mentally declassifying them–another lie. He only partially complied with a subpoena, his lawyer filed a false affidavit claiming all had been returned, and there’s security footage showing people going thorugh the boxes, moving materials between the boxes and moving some to other locations after the subpoena was served. Some of the papers were in Trump’s office, to which cleaining people had access. Trump’s conduct was deliberate. Biden’s was not.
“MAL is open to the public when a member hosts a party, wedding or other event”
Nope, it is a gated community, you must have permission to enter.
Separately Trump’s presidential office is separate and guarder by the SS.
“and some of the classified papers were in a locker next to the swimming pool used by members and their guests.”
Fake news.
“The PennBiden office is NOT open to the public.”
Correct, the Biden Center is a private think tank – it is not a government agency, it is not a government contractor.
It is not a secure govenrment fascility and few if any of the people in the entire building have TS/SCI security clearances.
“Trump admitted he took the papers on purpose because he claimed “they’re mine””
Actually he has not said that, but if it did say that – it would be no problem.
Presidents can declassify documents at whim.
VP’s can not.
“no, they weren’t.”
Because you say so ?
“When that lie didn’t fly, he made up a story about mentally declassifying them–another lie.”
Learn the difference between a lie an an inarticulate true statement. A president can not mentally declassify anything.
But he can by act. A president Merely ordering a classified document tmoved to an insecure location or person declassifies it.
“He only partially complied with a subpoena”
Then DOJ should have gotten a court order.
“his lawyer filed a false affidavit claiming all had been returned”
Nope, read the actual affadavits.
“and there’s security footage showing people going thorugh the boxes, moving materials between the boxes and moving some to other locations after the subpoena was served. Some of the papers were in Trump’s office, to which cleaining people had access.”
Fake news.
We know FBI asked for security footage, we do not know what it shows.
Have you seen it ?
Conversely the Biden docs – including lots of WH papers as well as classified Documents, are you telling me they were out in the wild for 6 years and no one touched them ?
We know that is false – wherever these docs were from Jan 2017 until the Biden Center opened in 2018, they were inarguably DELIBERATELY moved to Biden Center in 2018. That violated the espionage act.
We do not need video to know they were moved. Because the Biden center did not exist as Biden left office.
“Nope, it is a gated community, you must have permission to enter. Separately Trump’s presidential office is separate and guarder by the SS.”
John, I have been to MAL many times. It is a gated home, not a community, though it functions as a club and a residence. When the President was there, cars were checked by the secret service in the parking lot across the street. When he is not there, one drives through the gate and leaves his car with the valet. Before he ran for the Presidency, there was always security.
Though one can walk on the grounds and the lower floors, the rest of the building is tightly secured. Of course, when he became President, SS was at entrances and exits to the various rooms.
When a MAL member invites a guest, are they vetted by anyone to make sure they aren’t a spy? No. Are there parties when the fat one isn’t around? Sure. And, if he’s not there, the SS isn’t there either. Does anyone vet cleaning people, cooks, gardeners, other workers? Are guests searched for a spy camera upon entry or upon leaving? No. The SS guards a president–not their residence when they aren’t home. Some classified items were in a pool locker. NOT false news. Trump DID say regarding the classifed documents: “they’re not theirs–they’re mine”. Look it up. Classified documents, especially “top secret” documents are not “declassifed” by virtue of being moved. That’s just not true. A subpoena is just like a court order, except that the subject of the subpoena can petition a court to quash it, which Trump’s lawyers would have done if there were any grounds to challenge it. They didn’t, and his lawyer DID file a false affidavit, swearing that all classified documents had been returned. There, indeed, IS security footage showing people going through boxes and shuffling contents and moving boxes to other locations. Nice try, but it won’t fly.
“When a MAL member invites a guest, are they vetted by anyone to make sure they aren’t a spy?”
Probably not. They also do not get into Trump’s Residence which is distinct from the Resort.
“if he’s not there, the SS isn’t there either.”
Ex-Presidential residences and the ex-presidence official government office have a SS presence all the time.
“Does anyone vet cleaning people, cooks, gardeners, other workers?”
If you are allowed into Trump’s residence SS has vetted you.
“Are guests searched for a spy camera upon entry or upon leaving?”
Guests to MAL do not get to the Trump residence.
“No. The SS guards a president–not their residence when they aren’t home.”
False.
“Some classified items were in a pool locker. NOT false news.”
Then you will have a Press release by Trump or DOJ or FBI confirming that.
I have told you before that leaks to the press are nearly always LIES – because if they were True, they would be crimes and the leaker would be prosecuted.
I do not pay much attention to so called Journalists – outside those very few investigative Journalists with a LONG reputation for accuracy.
“Trump DID say regarding the classifed documents: “they’re not theirs–they’re mine”. Look it up. Classified documents, especially “top secret” documents are not “declassifed” by virtue of being moved. That’s just not true.”
Yes they are. This is also well documented NY Times and WaPo did stories on it in the early Trump admin.
The current president has unlimited declassification power. It is Litterally impossible for a sitting president to violate the espionage act, because every action by a current president that would violate the act declassifies the material involved.
I would further note that this derives from the constitutional powers to the president – which for National security are “above the law”.
And are a REQUIREMENT for the role of president.
“A subpoena is just like a court order, except that the subject of the subpoena can petition a court to quash it”
Nope. Not even close. You can not enforce a subpeona without going to court to get a court order.
Any lawyer in a case can issue a subpeona.
“which Trump’s lawyers would have done if there were any grounds to challenge it. They didn’t”
You have it backwards. If you want a subpeona enforced – your ONLY choice is to go to court.
You can not bring in local law enforcement, you can not hire a sheriff, there is absolutely no “force” behind a subpeona.
If you want to FORCE a subpoena – you must use it to get a Court order.
And when YOU go to court to get the subpeona enforced, the other party gets to argue against it.
In this instance the Subpeona was issued by a Lawyer in DC, There were massive jurisdictional problems, and it was not enforceable.
There was no reason to move to Quash the subpeona.
There CAN be penalties for failure to comply with a subpeona – but those still require a COURT.
To be clear when I said any attorney can issue a subpeona (when there is a court case)- that does NOT mean someone who passed the bar.
It means even people appearing Pro Se in court. I have issued dozens of subpeona’s. Most were not really complied with.
Nor did I expect that they would be. The purpose of the subpeona’s were tactical. Failure to produce subpeona’d material precludes the subpeona’d party for using it in court, AND it often allows the judge to instruct the jury – or if the finder of fact, to themselves conclude that information not provided would have been damaging.
Regardless, only courts have the power to Compel, and subpeona’s are not issued by courts. they are issued by lawyers.
“and his lawyer DID file a false affidavit, swearing that all classified documents had been returned.”
Nope.
“There, indeed, IS security footage showing people going through boxes and shuffling contents and moving boxes to other locations.”
Then you can link to that footage.
Again you conflate news stories and leaks with facts.
I would note – there IS 24×7 secuity cameras throughout MAL. So far no one has indicated there is security at any of the locations Biden documents were found.
Let me give you a clue.
If the media reports something regarding an DOJ/FBI investigation from an unnamed source.
Whether it si harmful to a republican or a democrat – it is likely FALSE.
Why ? Because leaking TRUE information about an ongoing investigation is a crime.
But DOJ/FBI lying to reporters is not.
The security at the Biden Center is irrelevant.
Biden Center is not a government fascility.
It is not a Government contractor.
Even the security people do NOT have government security clearances.
The Trump residence at MAL is secured by the SS.
They do have clearance.
Both Trump’s and Biden’s problems began by taking with them government documents without permission. That leaves both their cases identical enough and sufficient enough to warrant investigations into what was taken, why was it taken, and who stands to benefit from it.
Unlawfully removing and storing classified information is the thread common to both instances. With the full facts yet to be known and allegations to emerge, it is incumbent upon the Department of Justice to do its job. That is, if the DOJ still serves the Republic and not just a president or a particular ideology.
Dear Prof Turley,
First of all, seems to me ‘Top Secret’ classification of vital public interest information would be, itself, the larger ‘scandal’ here, imho. Including, within the bounds of wise discretion, the classification of Sources and Methods. .. e.g. If Osama bin Laden was a CIA asset before 9/11, or Oswald was on the payroll before the JFK assassination, or if Burisma had Hunter on the board, seems to me a matter of vital public interest.
In any case, I know where the buck stops. As far as I’m concerned, only the president has any constitution authority to declare any information ‘classified’, or unclassified. Especially in matters of critical public interest. Like information about wars and rumors of wars…
Unlike Trump, VP Biden was not the president. So, unless Biden has a note from his boss (Obama) or a clear line of de-‘classification’ authority linking directly to his boss (i.e. ‘the classification system’) .. . well, I guess that’s why we still have the ‘espionage act’ to punish wrong doers. ibid @ Snowden and Assange et el
*it’s one thing to classify nuclear launch codes, it’s another thing to ‘classify’ illegal/unconstitutional official high crimes and misdemeanors.
Svelaz says, “When you start speculating in the absence of facts..” Those facts are/were known to me and others, but add nothing and are wholly non-responsive to my comment. Nice try, thanks anyway.
Lyn, when you state that Biden’s “lawyers” have “discovered” documents you are implying that they are not what they say they are. The purpose of putting those words in parentheses insinuates that they are suspect. That’s how conspiracy theorists start running away making assumptions on the “lawyers” and “discovery”.
Svelaz, If these “” are parentheses then are these () quotation marks?
Macroman: Smile and thank you, you beat me to the response. Moreover and importantly, my use of quotation marks was intended to indicate that I was QUOTING numerous sites/articles using those words. I did not get specific because virtually every article/site used those words. Anyone can see/read/know this. So Svelaz’ whole objective was one of deflection.
Lin, you put quotation marks on the words themselves , not the paragraphs including them from the articles you read. Putting words in quotation marks implies they are not what they mean without saying they are. You were a specific in quoting the words, you know like when people do air quotes.
Lol! You’re right. It’s quotation marks. My mistake. Sheesh.
Using a sports metaphor:
If spectators view the football game as being rigged. Referees “selectively” enforcing the rules (or not at all). Americans will simply lose faith in the integrity of the Justice system.
What’s outrageous is, even if the referees look the other way and refuse to enforce existing law. We can’t even support “future reforms” or correcting past wrongs.
In the past 20 years, the very political DOJ criminally prosecuted lower rank officials for being too loyal to their Oath of Office. Then the DOJ trumped up charges to throw them in prison (ie: CIA officer John Kiriakou, Snowden, Manning, Drake, Winner and many more). Snowden is only in Russia because the U.S. Government forced his airplane to be grounded in Russia, he never intentionally flew to Russia.
Garland can’t have it both ways in the history books. He must enforce laws against the elites and/or pardon the “subordinates” that were punished, jailed and ruined. The 14th Amendment legally requires “equal treatment under law”. Garland swore an oath to do just that.
If it’s just a carnival game, Americans will simply lose faith in the entire Justice System! Many, if not most, voters view it this way. It’s a fatal harm to American institutions that can’t be quantified but terrible for the nation!
Finding an honest “lawyer” / politician, is getting extremely difficult. I am thankful, that @garland is not a supreme. He will go down in history as the guy that saved biden. He looks like he hasn’t slept in years, the failure to live up to his oath of office, will be his legacy. biden, is on record, saying how irresponsible President Trump was. The msm will just lay on the sugar coating, to obscure the crime.
While I support the actions of Snowden, Manning, and some of the others – these were still crimes.
And it is not criminal to prosecute them.
Conversely Asange did not commit any crime except journalism.
Obama was correct to commute Manning’s sentence. The prosecution of Assange should be ended, The government should make a deal with Snowden that involves little Jail time.
And congress should fix the misconduct in the executive that resulted in these whistle blowers
JS – Assange committed the greatest crime imaginable in current Wash. DC – he embarrassed the Democratic Party and may have cost Hillary Clinton the 2016 Pres. election. But everything he published was true and important to understanding our current politics. For this, he should be rewarded, not punished. He is purely a political criminal, for whose release all of us should be working.
I do not agree with everything Assange did. Regardless, I want MORE Assange’s not less.
But it was all “journalism” and the Pentagon papers case makes it all protected by the first amendment.
Prosecuting Assange is actually important to the powers that be (right and left)
They want Wikileaks destroyed.
They do not want other wikileaks.
Investigate reporting is almost dead today.
And that is how the “deep state” and other powers that be like it.
This is little different from the Twitter files.
We can debate what censorship occured was legal.
There is no debate that “the powers that be” want – and arguably have pretty tight control on ALOT of what can be spread widely today.
And that is WRONG.
Much of it is unconstitutional, but ALL of it is Wrong.
If There were no Biden campaign meddling, no DNC, no congressional democrats, no FBI and alphabit agencies
If all we had was each SM and Media outlet with homogenous values censoring the same stuff on their own.
It would still be MASSIVELY immoral and bad for society.
This demand for a Special Council reminds me of the demand by some people that Biden should visit the Southern border. It’s beside the point. A distraction. Biden can now state that he visited the Southern border without addressing the problem. He visited the border, big whoop!
The appointment of a Special Council is a distraction from the underlying issue which is that a very large percentage of the American public no longer believes in the integrity of the people in the judicial system. Merrick Garland could appoint Special Council tomorrow. Who is going to trust the “Former Undersecretary of the Federal Permanent Bureaucracy” whose job it is to produce a clean bill of health for the Biden Family using the resources of the FBI, CIA, DOJ all of whom worked mightily to eject the interloper Donald Trump from office?
You can’t get your virginity back. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
It is my understanding that the current President, Biden, can see whatever documents he wants to. Nothing is classified to him right now.
So if Biden has some documents now it is a big nothing burger. if Trump were found with some documents while he was President I do not think I would have cared too much.
Except that he stole them when he was negotiating with Ukraine as Vice President.
I’m guessing you missed the part that these records were removed 6 years (2017) when he was no longer VP. Also these documents were in an office space that Chinese nationals had access to
Here are some answers that I, as a member of the general public, am awaiting:
(First, disclosure. While in school, I worked for the DOD and had a security clearance. It is my understanding that ALL classified documents are identified, categorized, and listed in a database. Departments have their own security offices tasked with maintaining the security and whereabouts of documents, showing what documents and who has them. Then they are transferred to NARA at the end of each administration.)
With that in mind,
(1) In May 2021, NARA notified Trump officials that he needed to return some documents. Trump left office just a few months before (January 2021)…yet YEARS LATER, we learn of classified documents left behind in Biden’s off-site office? Where was NARA? Where was the “originating” department/Office “security” and its follow-up/follow-through of all outstanding documents not yet retrieved or transferred?
(2) Why were Biden’s “attorneys’ the ones who “discovered” the documents? Why were Biden’s “attorneys” tasked with retrieving records and old files, not anticipating anything classified in there? And why now (Nov 2022) after all these years?
Am I missing something here?
I dunno, there could be very simple, plausible answers. There is a plethora of possible scenarios.
Biden’s attorneys were clearing out the office because it was being vacated. They came upon the documents by chance after opening a locked closet. When they discovered the documents they immediately called the proper authorities to report these documents and they were handed over within 24hrs. That is how you handle such situations. Are you assuming they were “attorneys” as to imply they were otherwise? This is how conspiracy theories get out of hand. When you start speculating in the absence of facts.
I’m sure we can both agree that the comparison between Trump’s handling of documents and Biden’s lawyers is very different. One was correct the other was not.
Svelaz: I and others are aware of the points you raise, but they are wholly unresponsive to the points I raise. Thanks anyway.
Lin, these are good questions.
A thorough investigation would examine how the documents came to be removed, why they were removed, whether NARA knew about it, if not, why not, if so, what they did about it, whether any other agency knew about it, if so, what they did about it, where and how the documents were held throughout the period in question, who had access to them, who in fact accessed them, how the documents were used, what damage to national defence could have been caused, what damage to the national defence was caused.
If some or more of these documents are indeed top secret sci there are potentially significant risks.
I don’t see how these questions can be answered without questioning Biden’s team at the time, and likely Biden himself.
There is no means by which classified documents can get from the Obama/Biden administration to a private Chinese funded foreign policy think tank without the espionage act being violated.
There are differences between this and MAL – nearly all those distinctions make this WORSE than Trump.
While this makes clear that From the cabinet level up the “elites” are careless with respect to classified information and government documents.
And there there is nothing slightly unusual about Trump’s documents at MAL – and there IS something unusual about prosecuting that.
At the same time there is still a Huge issue regarding Biden here.
These classified documents, these WH papers were removed from Ex-VP Biden’s personal possession which MIGHT have been legal, and certainly was not unusual, and transfered ILLEGALLY to a private entity.
That did not happen with Trump. That happened with Both Biden and Clinton.
And that is the distinction between a criminal violation of the espionage act and those at the top thinking the rules do not apply to them.
“ There is no means by which classified documents can get from the Obama/Biden administration to a private Chinese funded foreign policy think tank without the espionage act being violated.
There are differences between this and MAL – nearly all those distinctions make this WORSE than Trump.”
John B. Say, you’re delving in way too much speculation without evidence. How is it worse?
Trump deliberately took documents home that did not legally belong to him. That’s theft. He refused to turn them over for by early two years after being given ample opportunities to resolve the situation quietly. He purposely hid documents in unsecured locations and obstructed investigators. All those are violations of the espionage act.
“ These classified documents, these WH papers were removed from Ex-VP Biden’s personal possession which MIGHT have been legal, and certainly was not unusual, and transfered ILLEGALLY to a private entity.”
If there was no issue when they were first sent there it’s certain that it was legal. The person running the think tank was secretary of state Blinken who did have a top secret security clearance. You don’t know what was transferred or what occurred to determine anything was illegal. Stop making assumptions because you want them to be true.
Trump’s actions were indeed worse because he kept refusing to turn over documents that were not legally his to keep. Refusing to hand over documents that are NOT yours is legally considered theft. Obviously a crime. He was FORCED to comply once by subpoena and when it was discovered that he was not being honest about handing over everything it forced the DOJ to issue a search warrant to look for the rest and they DID find more and they did find the TS/SCI documents that were certainly not his to keep. Lying, deceiving and refusing to comply with a lawful order are all prosecutable. Biden’s case involves documents that nobody knew were there until they were found by chance and they did do what they were supposed to do.
“John B. Say, you’re delving in way too much speculation without evidence.”
Actually ALL the speculation is YOURS.
It is a FACT the Biden documents were found in a place they Can not possibly legally be.
It is a FACT that the Biden documents are not merely marked classified but ACTUALY classified.
It is a FACT that the documents were moved illegally to this location – either recklessly or knowingly by ex-VP Biden.
There is Zero speculation in that.
Unless you wish to claim someone planted Classified documents at the Biden Center.
There is absolutely alot we do not know regarding the Biden documents.
We do not know exactly how those documents came to be in ex-VP Biden’s possession – it is entirely possible and likely that they arrived at VP Biden’s home much the same as the allegedly classified documents arrived at MAL.
Regardless, they did NOT leave the Obama-Biden admin in Jan 2017 and float in the ether for 13 months finanly arriving at Biden Center in 2018.
We can debate whether classified documents can legally exist at ex-VP or ex-Presidents homes.
There is ZERO debate that they can not be at the Biden Center.
Why is Biden’s problem WORSE – because it is absolutely certain that a crime was committed.
Classified documents were found in a place they can not be.
To “get Trump”, you must prove – beyond a reasonable doubt the documents at MAL are classified.
Presidents have unlimited declassification power. While they can not as Trump inarticiulately said be declassified by thought.
They are automatically declassified by any action of a President that results in those documents no longer being secure.
The president can order them declassified.
He can hand them to someone without a security clearance and say “Read these”
He can say “I declasify thee”
He can say “move this batch to MAL”
He can put them into Boxes himself and take them onto Marine one on the way out the door.
Each of these acts and many more would declassify the documents.
We do not know if the documents found at MAL are still classified.
YOU claiming they are is “just speculation” – WE DO NOT KNOW.
Vice presidents can not declassify documents.
The documents found at Biden Center are classified.
That is not speculation.
Next even if the documents at MAL are still classified – we do not right now know how they got there.
And nearly every way they could get there either they are declassified or they are there legally.
Biden is claiming that he does not know how classified documents got to the Biden Center.
He has a problem because whether he knows or not he is responsible.
That said there is merit to the “i do not know” claim.
As I noted before uniquely ex-presidents and vice presidents can legally have classified documents at their homes.
As president/VP they could have been ordered to their respective homes.
Or they could have been inadvertantly transfered by GSA during the transition.
Both ex-presidents and VP’s retain unlimited security clearance – so classified documents still in their posession after leaving office are still accessible by them.
Contra the left – there is no clear Duty to notify government or to return classified documents that arrived at a VP or Presidents residence legally.
There is however an ongoing duty to keep them secure.
There are press leaks about pool boys etc. at MAL. None of these have been established as FACT.
However IF and Only IF you establish that the Trump documents are still classified – should you prove Trump left them at poolside – then you have an espionage act violation.
There is no need to prove the Biden docs are classified – Biden has no unlimited declassification authority.
The documents were found at Biden Center – a place they can not legally be.
Knowingly or unwittingly Biden Transfered them there – NOT GSA. Biden was out of office for over a year when they were moved.
There is no way that they were moved legally.
None of this is “speculation”.
“Trump deliberately took documents home that did not legally belong to him. That’s theft.”
Nope that is speculation. You have no idea how the documents got to MAL or whether they are even still classified.
With The Biden docs we know several things for Certain.
1). They are still classified.
2) They can not legally be at Biden Center.
3). That Biden is responsible for them.
4). That they could not have been legally moved to Biden Center.
“He refused to turn them over for by early two years after being given ample opportunities to resolve the situation quietly. He purposely hid documents in unsecured locations and obstructed investigators.”
No relevant and all speculation.
“All those are violations of the espionage act.”
Nope. The espionage act can not be violated if they are not classified.
The espionage act can not be violated if they arrived at MAL legally.
You have not established that you actually have a crime.
You are claiming obstruction.
There is no obstruction of government claim.
Actual federal obstruction requires a judicial proceeding.
This is the US. No one is required to cooperate with law enforcement.
And Contra the left vigorously claiming your own innocence and resisting efforts of law enforcement to convict you is NOT a crime.
It is not even evidence of a crime.
“If there was no issue when they were first sent there it’s certain that it was legal.”
If you accept that as correct – it applies to Trump also and the entire MAL raid and mess is NOT A CRIME.
We do not know for certain that Ex-VP Biden’s home was the initial destination for these documents.
But that is presumptively true. And if they were There legally – that the Trump documents at MAL were also there legally.
There is no one law for Trump and another for Biden.
“The person running the think tank was secretary of state Blinken who did have a top secret security clearance. ”
Not Relevant – Ex-VP Biden and Ex-President Trump had HIGHER security clearances than Blinken
Next Blink was SoS in 2021 – these documents have been at Biden Center since 2018.
Regardless, this is not a question of security clearance.
First ex-VP Biden and Ex-Pres. Trump have more than sufficient clearance to access these documents.
And if they did not – SoS Blinken does not have the authority to give ex-VP Biden access (ignoring the timeline problem).
This is a question of WHERE the documents were found. They were in a locked closet in a non-government fascility where there is no legally way they could be present, any more than a locked closet at Wallmart.
Ex-Presidents and Ex-VP’s homes are different. They contain SCIF’s – even if that is merely a locked closet.
They contain official offices of the expresident – these are actually government offices.
And the Ex-VP and Ex-P retain unlimited access security clearances.
Further while actually classified documents can BE at ex-vp and ex-P homes. the ex-P and ex-VP continue to have a legal duty to protect them.
They can keep them where they are. They can read them. But they can not share them or move them to an insecure fascility.
Trump appears to have followed that – Assuming that the Trump documents are still classified.
Biden DI NOT.
“You don’t know what was transferred or what occurred to determine anything was illegal. Stop making assumptions because you want them to be true.”
No assumptions at all.
Of course I know what was transfered.
These documents were found at Biden Center.
They could not have gotten their before 2018.
The documents left government custody in 2017 at the end of Obama’s term
Sat somewhere under Biden’s control for a year.
And were moved to Biden Center in 2018 where they can not legally be.
“Trump’s actions were indeed worse because he kept refusing to turn over documents that were not legally his to keep.”
Not a crime AND assumptions.
“Refusing to hand over documents that are NOT yours is legally considered theft.”
Again assumptions.
I would note the posession of documents you are not legally allowed to have is theft – whether classified or not.
Whether you refuse to return them or not.
You have not established that Either Biden or Trump could not have these documents at their homes as Ex-VP or Ex-President.
Your claim that they were stolen is FALSE. But if TRue applies equally to Biden.
“Obviously a crime. He was FORCED to comply once by subpoena”
Subpeona’s are not force. Court orders are. Subpeona’s are issued by attorney’s in court cases.
Even Pro Se attorney’s can issue subpeona’s.
I have issued dozen’s of subpeona’s personally.
I do not beleive most of those were complied with.
Failure to comply with a subpeona does NOT allow me to get a warrant.
It does NOT allow me to get a sherif.
Failure to comply with a subpeona allows me TWO things ONLY.
It allows me to get a court order.
It allows me to block the party receiving the subpeona from using anything they failed to turn over
in their case.
Subpena’s are NOT court orders.
“when it was discovered that he was not being honest about handing over everything it forced the DOJ to issue a search warrant to look for the rest and they DID find more and they did find the TS/SCI documents that were certainly not his to keep.
DOJ was not force to do anything. The next step was a court order NOT a Warrant.
Regardless, there is no FACT regarding the Trump documents that is not ALSO true of the Biden documents.
You rant about NARA and FBI and DOJ – they spent 2 years harrassing Trump over documents that it is highly likely he is allowed to have in his ex-presidential offices – just as Biden is.
But No one went looking for these Biden documents for 6 years. They were not on NARA’s map, They were not on FBI’s ?
Why ? We do not “know” We have to speculate.
Incompetence ?
Or Political bias ?
President Trump did NOT go after his enemies after he was elected.
He left Hillary alone.
President Biden is well KNOW to walk the WH ranting like Henry II ‘Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?’ \
We actually know the Director of NARA targeted Trump before he was out of office.
The FACT is the Targeting of Trump has NEVER happened before. From before Nixon through to the present.
ExPresidents have taken substantial material from the WH.
And CONTRA your idiocy the Courts actually consider WH papers – including classified documents the property of the expresident NOT the government. There are numerous cases on this – starting with Nixon. All say the same thing. An ex-President can not deny ACCESS to the current government of their presidential papers, BUT the current administration must get a COURT ORDER to get them.
i.e. the current administration can not go on a fishing expedition in the prior admnistrations papers. It has to go to court and prove a NEED TO KNOW.
As a Rule NARA is the custodian of ex presidents papers – they are NOT the Owner, NARA is OBLiGATED by law to turn over to the ex-presidents PRIVATE library all the ex presidential papers – including classified documents. With NARA AT that library continuing to serve as Custodian for those papers that are classified.
Not only is this the law – but there is case law that prevents NARA from turning over ex-presidents papers to the current president without a court order.
There is also case law that NARA can not be forced to seek the return to its custody of the documents of ex-presidents.
I would FURTHER NOTE – that while the WH Papers of an ex-president are LEGALLY the Expresidents property.
The SAME is NOT true for ExVP’s.
VP Biden’s papers as VP are President Obama’s property.
“Lying, deceiving and refusing to comply with a lawful order are all prosecutable.”
You do not have a “lawful order” – until you had a warrant. Regardless, you are incorrect – not only are your claims FALSE, they are also WRONG.
” Biden’s case involves documents that nobody knew were there”
Does not change anything.
Also False, This was Biden’s Documents in Biden’s closet in Biden’s office that Biden used when working on a book.
ALL of these papers were Obama WH Papers. NONE of them were HIS PROPERTY.
By YOUR fake legal theory – Biden was stealling the property of the Trump administration.
The FACT that they did not know it or did not go after him for it. does not change that by YOUR legal theory Biden is still guilty.
By the ACTUAL law these were Obama’s Papers that were required to be at either:
NARA’s Obama records fascilities,
Obama’s ex-presidenial offices.
Obama’s library.
NOT some closet in DC.
“until they were found by chance and they did do what they were supposed to do.”
Yes, these papers magically disappeared on Jan 21, 2017.
Were lost to everyone for 6 years and magically reappeared in a closet in Biden’s office in the Biden center, just as the closet was being cleared out.
Aside for 10+ TS/SCI documents, there was a massive amount of Obama WH papers.
Is it possible that no one knew these classified documents were in there ? Certainly.
But they KNEW that Obama WH papers were in there. And they KNEW that those are NOT ex-VP Biden’s property by ANY understanding of the law.
Biden himself used this info while working on his book.
YOU have said Trump was obligated to return documents to NARA – Trump did allow NARA access to his documents on 2 separate occasions and they took what they wanted.
Biden did nothing for 6 years.
There is a strong argument that the MAL documents are all Trump’s
There is no argument the BC documents are Biden’s – they are as you say STOLEN. By Your bogus theory, they were stolen from the Trump administration. By the law, they were stolen from Obama.
By your OWN legal theory – NONE of the documents found at BC belonged to Biden.
They were ALL stolen. Not just the Classified documents.
There is an actual property right of ex-presidents to the WH papers of their presidency.
There is no such ex-VP right.
You can pretend that Biden did not know he had classified documents if you want.
You can not pretend he did not have stolen documents.
I would further note that the WH at Biden’s direction sic’d NARA on Trump.
Why did’n’t Biden Sic NARA on himself.
You can Argue that Biden did not know he had classified documents.
But you can not in anyway argue that a president who went after his predicessor for posession of their WH papers,
Did not KNOW that the WH papers He had were not illegal.
Do you see how the same questions can be answered for the materials in Trump’s possession without questioning Trump’s team and likely Trump himself?
What about the government lawyers, the ones advising the elites? Everyone knows laws don’t apply to most elites, but aren’t their government-attorneys supposed to keep them in-bounds of the law?
The question may be did the “elites” follow the guidance of their attorneys -or- ignore that legal guidance?
This question also raises a 14th Amendment issue (equal treatment under law) issue for “subordinates” that were punished, jailed or ruined for following and complying with laws and Constitution. Did they receive the same treatment as the elites?
Garland and Biden should be pardoning (and making financially whole) those “subordinates” that were loyal to their Oath of Office that refused illegal orders from disloyal supervisors.
Edward Snowden, John Kiriakou, Manning, Drake, Winner and many others should receive a full pardon from Biden and made financially whole again. Many served years in prison for refusing to participate in war crimes. All are arguably more law abiding and more loyal than most elites.
Excellent argument.
If Clinton and Biden can not follow the laws of the land and violate them for their personal enrichment, then those who expose government malfeasance in violation of the law must be pardoned.
I would note this also applies to J6 protestors.
Even if it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the 2020 election was not fraudulent.
It was rigged – by the very people prosecuting J6 defendants.
You may not silence the truth and then criminally prosecute those who protest your silencing the truth.
I overlooked the ownership and funding of the two locations….one Trump privately owned and funded….the other was owned by a University and funded by the Chinese Communist Government.
Some minor differences between the Trump and Biden cases….subtle but very important.
Trump’s place was guarded by the US Secret Service 24/7/365…..Biden’s Penn Office was not.
Trump as President could declassify anything he wished….Biden as Vice-President could not.
Trump followed NARA requests to add additional security…..NARA was unaware of the Documents at Biden’s old Office.
Trump’s documents were under Federal Protection from day one…..Biden’s never was up to the day (actually the following day) the documents were reported to NARA.
You do not have to be a Legal Expert to grasp the significance of those differences.
Garland now is confronted with two options either of which is the poisoned Chalice.
He either appointed a Special Counsel for the Biden case or he has to drop the Trump Case.
Anything else and the the Republican House is going to begin an Impeachment Process and destroy him politically and in the process stick a huge Lance between Joe Biden’s virtual Ribs.
The American People know the US DOJ is corrupt as evidenced by what has gone on with the Clintons, Obama’s, and now the Biden’s.
The Democrats may prevent an Impeachment Conviction but they cannot win in the Court of Public Opinion anymore as they have too much to lose as the Republicans begin to unravel all the threads holding their curtain together hiding their growing number of criminal violations of Law.
The Republicans have a golden opportunity to lay waste to the Democrats so long as they play it straight and only follow the evidence and leave off the political grand standing as the Democrats did for the past many years.
“Trump’s place was guarded by the US Secret Service 24/7/365”
USSS guards people, not documents.
“Trump as President could declassify anything he wished….Biden as Vice-President could not.”
The VP is also an original classification/declassification authority: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information
“Trump followed NARA requests to add additional security”
No, he was asked to secure it as if it was a SCIF. He did not do that, especially for the items found in his office.
“Garland now is confronted with two options…”
A false dichotomy on your part.
“USSS guards people, not documents.”
Dumb. That means when I enter MAL I can tell the SS that I won’t hurt those they guard, I am just there to steal the documents. LOL at your word games (guard)
“The VP is also an original classification/declassification authority:”
Dumb. That authority to classify is meaningless in this argument and to declassify is limited. It demonstrates you don’t know what you are talking about.
“No, he was asked to secure it as if it was a SCIF. He did not do that, especially for the items found in his office.”
Dumb. MAL is far more secure than the think tank funded by the Chinese where Biden had his papers. It is expected that Presidents and ex Presidents will review documents at their desks.
Garland lost whatever reputation he had as a judge and his actions demonstrate him to either be ignorant or uncaring of the rule of law.
The Presidential Records Act:
(3)the Presidential records of a former President shall be available to such former President or the former President’s designated representative.
Biden was NOT a former President.
“Biden was NOT a former President.”
ATS can’t get that through his head.
Thank you, Jonathan, for an excellent article and your correct focus on AG Merrick Garland. We might be pleasantly surprised to see FBI Agents storming the University of Pennsylvania in the days ahead, but I highly doubt it. Garland is the Democrats loyal puppet master making sure that any dissent is quickly redefined as “conspiracy” to violate one law or another. Thank you.
“We might be pleasantly surprised to see FBI Agents storming the University of Pennsylvania in the days ahead”
On the basis of what affidavit?
Where’s the affidavit for the RAID on trump
In the court filings. Not all court filings are viewable by the public, but it was submitted to and read by the judge.
Again deflection and dishonesty.
The affidavit is created after an illegal act is thought to be committed.
If the rule of law follows so should an affidavit to search U of P and all of Biden’s addresses including his son’s.
If the rule of law follows so should an affidavit to search U of P and all of Biden’s addresses including his son’s.
The gap between Jan20 2017 and when the Penn Biden Center opened, means the documents were in Bidens Home with Secret Service protection. They documents were illegaly transfered to the Penn Biden Center. Where they were under no more security that a simple lock
“On the basis of what affidavit?”
That they are aiding and abetting America’s greatest enemy — communist China.
American universities are supposed to protect America, not sell it out.
The Democrat-controlled media has suddenly discovered apples and oranges, and are using that weak excuse to try and save their president from extinction. But, while there indeed are differences in the two cases, there is one glaring similarity on which any prosecution will inevitably stand: both Biden and Trump had TS-SCI-controlled information in their unauthorized possession. TS-SCI: Top Secret–Sensitive Compartmented Information. That’s the crime.
AFAIK, the DOJ has never prosecuted someone solely for possession, only if combined with some other crime (leaking the material, obstruction, etc.).
Wrong.
Yet you don’t name anyone as a counterexample.
You are wrong. One doesn’t have to spoon feed you. You are the one that provides lengthy links that don’t prove what you say. You are the one without credibility.
I don’t have to. You are sea lionizing.
GioCon, it hasn’t been conformed if the documents found at the think tank did contain TS/SCI level classification. It’s reported by sources, BUT it’s not been confirmed. As for authorization the center was managed by the Secretary of State Blinken who would have a top secret security clearance. If he was the one who brought the documents to the center he would have been authorized to be in possession of them. It’s being reported that the documents included briefings on Ukraine and the UK which would fall under true purview of the SOS.
To Steve Witherspoon.
They follow blindly because they can see no evil, hear no evil but speak evil all the time (about someone else)
The elites need to be careful. The unwashed masses can take a lot of horse dung but eventually they get a fill of it. Then you have things like April on Lexington Green, Bastille day, the October Revolution, the Arab Spring, the Rose Revolution, The Velvet Revolution, The Prague Spring, The Hungarian Revolt, Solidarity and such. Some successful immediately and some results delayed. Unpredictable outcomes. Often disturbing and violent and though the unwashed often suffer greatly so do the Elites (if they don’t disappear entirely for a time) You can only look at smugness, entitlement, lying, the aura of untouchability for so long before the anger builds as the unwashed start to think seriously that the law no longer works for them or protects them. So what do they do next? I really don’t want to see that answer.
More reason to not trust the mainstream media, the Biden Administration, the Democrat Party, and the Justice Department. Thankfully, Garland is not on the Supreme Court.
Aren’t we tired of learning of the difference between what the right and left does when it comes to the law? As long as we have the media/education industry that we do, nothing will change. Change the environment of our nation and deal with several generations of brainwashed human flotsam and things may stand a chance of improving. Otherwise this sort of column reminds me of a weatherman standing in the rain telling me about the weather.
“there are obvious differences in the two cases. … There are clear differences in the two scandals. … there are distinctions…. there is no allegation of false statements or obstruction. … there have not been false statement or obstruction claims raised…”
It took him 3 references to differences before JT could bring himself to tell his readers what some of the key differences are: in the Biden case, there is no allegation of false statements or obstruction, whereas in the Trump case there is.
“the offense of unlawfully removing and storing classified information is the same”
I’m unaware of any case in which the DOJ charged someone solely for that. If someone is aware of such a case, I hope they’ll say. JT certainly doesn’t identify any.
Re: “those who previously took the position that knowing possession alone justifies a criminal charge,” Turley doesn’t name, quote, or link to any, and again does not name any case in which the DOJ charged that alone.
Turely is in the same boat as the rest of the media he is criticizing of being dismissive about this case. They are being dismissive because they are much more knowledgable of the facts than Turley is. He’s as clueless as the rest about the distinctions OR he is deliberately avoiding making clear distinctions because it will undermine his narrative of speculation and feeding the rage.
Turley knows this is not the same situation that Trump found himself in. Not even close. The only relevant issue is how the documents were left out there. What everyone assumes is that president Biden is the one who brought the documents to the think tank. It may not even have been his fault. A staffer could very likely have brought them over with authorization and simply forgot about them when whatever task was completed. It’s just 10 documents marked classified. It’s the lowest classification and Turley true to form deliberately hyped it by falsely characterizing it as “highly classified” despite the fact that nobody knows what they really constrained. It’s a column written on Fox.com. Obviously he’s obligated to speculate and feed the gullible nutties.
Let me translate today’s court jester’s proclamation: Biden dindu nuffin
Turley identified two of the distinctions, so he clearly isn’t clueless about them.
“he is deliberately avoiding making clear distinctions because it will undermine his narrative of speculation and feeding the rage.”
Probably. That’s routine for him.
“The only relevant issue is how the documents were left out there.”
I don’t know that it’s the only relevant issue, but it’s certainly a key one.
“It’s the lowest classification”
No, the documents include some that were classified TS/SCI. Since you sometimes read Marcy Wheeler’s posts, you might want to read https://www.emptywheel.net/2023/01/10/several-missing-details-about-the-classified-documents-at-penn-biden/
Anonymous, yes I read Marcy wheeler quite a bit. As for the TS/SCI claim I didn’t see where she got that information. She mentions sources reporting on some of the content on the documents but they only mention briefings on Ukraine and and intelligence memos including things pertaining to the UK. Also she noted that the center was run by Secretary of State Blinken who also has a serious security clearance, but no mention of TS/SCI.
The DOJ didn’t release any information about the documents or the extent of the classifies actions, I’m curious as to where she got the info on the TS/SCI being in those documents.
I can’t tell you where she got her information, but it’s easy to find other reporting on it. An example: https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/09/politics/joe-biden-classified-documents-upenn/index.html
Anonymous, thanks for the clarification.
Anonymous, the video in the link you provided only mentions Wolf Bitzer saying “similar documents”. I didn’t hear TS/SCI level documents were in that folder. I’ll keep looking for the source of Wheeler’s claim. Thanks again for the heads up.
It is entirely possible that many of the claims regarding these documents will prove false as time goes by – just as many cleams regarding Trump documents proved false.
But the discription provided so far does Fit their presence at the Biden Center for Foreign Policy.
The reporting so far is that these were TS/SCI documents regarding UK, Ukranian, Russia, Iran and China, And that they were with a closet full of other WH Papers on the same subjects from the Biden administration.
Maybe that is wrong. But it makes Sense that Joe Biden would bring to his UofP Biden Center (funded by the Chinese) office, documents focuses on his own areas of foreign policy during the Biden administration.
Regardless, contra Left wing nut spin this is much worse than MAL.
VP Biden never had unilateral declassification ability.
VP Biden never had any personal claim to Government papers from the Obama administration.
There is ZERO chance that these documents were moved to the Biden Center while Biden was VP – as the Biden Center did not exist until a year after Biden left office.
The presence of BOTH WH papers and Classified documents at the Biden center is illegal, There is absolutely no avoiding that.
And the presence of Classified documents at the Biden center is a crime. There is no avoiding that.
There Biden would have SOME of the defenses that Trump has (not all of them) were these documents found at his DE home while he was no longer in office.
There is no legitimate way these documents can be at the Biden Center.
Read the article. It specifies top secret / SCI docs.
“the offense of unlawfully removing and storing classified information is the same”
I’m unaware of any case in which the DOJ charged someone solely for that. If someone is aware of such a case, I hope they’ll say. ”
Petraeus immediately comes to mind.
Now the shoes is on the other foot, how does it feel? These types of things needs to run their due course and let the chips fall where they may. However, how is one a personal attack and the other one is lying?
I have zero idea if there is fire within all of the smoke or not, but I do see major difference in how they are reported and treated.
That is a problem.
There is a major difference in how they are reported and treated because there ARE major differences between how Trump handled it and how Biden’s lawyers handled it.
Trump spent nearly two years fighting to keep documents that did not belong to him. He was subpoenaed, and when he didn’t turn over everything as he claimed he did a warrant was issued. He was found to be in possession of the most sensitive top secret documents illegally and obstructed the investigation.
Biden’s case in contrast, his lawyers IMMEDIATELY CALLED THE AUTHORITES AND HANDED OVER THE DOCUMENTS WITHIN 24HRS. There is a very clear difference.. One involved a lot of drama and stupidity that ended up with a legal search warrant. The other was handled as it was supposed to without an issue other than a need to investigate how those documents were still there. Trump deliberately took classified documents home that did not belong him and were not his to keep. Biden’s case involved documents that were related to work AND he still had a security clearance. Trump’s clearance was revoked by Biden when he was left out of security briefings because he could not be trusted.
“There is a major difference . . .”
You are right. tThe only difference that counts in a country of men, not of laws: That Biden is a “D;” Trump an “R.”
Did Biden turn over the classified documents to proper authorities in a timely manner.. Yes.
Did Biden cry about witch hunts or scream the documents were “mine mine mine!” No.
Did Biden go on National TV and claim he could telepathically declassify any documents he wants.. No.
R’s twisting themselves into knots vainly trying to draw parallels between Biden and the former iDJiT only succeed in highlighting the difference between a mature Man for a President and a tantrum tossing toddler for one.
+100
Did Biden turn over the classified documents to proper authorities in a timely manner..
Its been 5 years. Not timely at all.
Who pays lawyers to clean out offices? Guilty people needing a fig leaf of legal cover.
I seriously doubt the lawyers were originally there in the capacity of janitors or a cleaning crew. More like as not. The office and file cabinet the documents were located at were in the process of being re purposed. Documents were discovered in the moving things around process. Lawyers were brought in upon recognition of the seriousness of the discovery and from there the lawyers did what was legal. IE: Turn over the documents to the proper authorities promptly with no fuss or muss.
Trying to suggest those documents were nefariously hidden there for the past 5 years is a fools errand and says more about you than anything negative about President Biden.
But hey, you do you. I’m not at all worried.
Trying to suggest those documents were nefariously hidden there for the past 5 years is a fools errand
Strange that is the assumption you made, not me.
According to Biden, the possession of those documents is inexcusable. But the left is very busy making excuses.
All I know is what the Democrat media reports. Lawyers discovered the SCI documents while the lawyers were cleaning out office space.
You created a fiction I have not seen reported
Unlike the Trump documents there is ZERO doubt these documents are classified.
VP’s do not have declassification authority.
Unlike Trump these documents were not at Biden’s home while he was president.
So there is no legal way they could get to the Biden Center.
There is also no one at Biden center who could legally posses or look at them
This is more similar to Clinton that Trump.
How did these documents get to the Biden Center in the first place ?
Biden left office in Jan 2017. The Biden center did not open until 2018.
It is arguable – in fact it is presumptively true with Both Trump and Biden that the documents were removed from eitehr the WH (Trump) or the National Observatory(Biden) during or at the conclusion of their public office.
It is easy to argue that is either Legitimate – the President and VP can have classified documents in their residences.
Or an inadvertant accident – documents that should not have been moved during the transition were moved accudentally.
In both cases Documents could arrive at MAL or Biden’s Delaware Home with “criminal intent” – and likely without even breaking a law – particularly with regard to Trump.
Further Ex-VP’s and Ex-Presidents retain a for life unlimited security clearance without a “need to know”. Ex-VP’s and Presidents access to classified information can only be restricted by the current president. So there is legitimate reason for Ex-P’s and VP’s to have classified materials, though they are required to keep this in a SCIF. This is one of the reasons that the Federal government fund an official govenrment office for Ex-Presidents (and I presume ex-VP’s). Ex-VP’s and Ex-Presidents can have government documents – including classified documents in those government offices and when not in use stored in a SCIF – which can be a properly secured locked closet that only an FSO and someone with sufficient security clearance can access.
So we can legitimately get highly classified documents and other government papers to either MAL or to Bidens’ Delaware Home.
But how did these documents get to the UoP Biden center ?
There is no legal way that can occur. The Biden center is NOT a government fascility. It is NOT the home office of an ex-=president or Vice president. There is no way these documents got to the Biden Center while Biden was VP.
They MUST have been moved from his Home (or from a government fascilty) to the UofP Biden Center While Joe Biden was no longer in office.
That is a violation of the espionage act.
It is also a reach to argue these documents were moved “inadvertantly” to the Biden Center – The documents themselves – TS/SCI documents on Ukraine, Russia, China, and Iran are information that would be very useful to the Biden Center – which is a foreign policy Think Tank.
While we do not know who and how many people had access to this locked closet in Biden’s office at the Biden Center, Providing Anyone other then Ex-VP Biden access would be a violation of the espionage act. And these documents mere presence at the Biden Center – as opposed to Biden’s DE home violates the espionage act.
If there is a difference in “intent” that difference favors Trump not Biden.
I do not think the documents were nefariously hidden.
It is far more likely that Like the Clinton Documents they were Deliberately moved to the Biden Center.
The documents are foreign Policy Documents – and the UofP Biden Center is a private Foreign Policy think tank – atleast partly funded by the chinese.
Just as Hillary removed documents on the MidEast to provide to Sydney Blumenthal who used the information to bolster his mid-east consulting.
The Biden Documents were transfered to the Biden Center to increase the value of the Biden Center as a Foreign Policy Think Tank.
While perfectly understandable – that is also a CRIME.
Left wing nuts constantly fixate on “intent” rather than acts, and always concoct innocent explanations for those they favor and malicious ones for those they hate.
I would further note that not only were there TS/SCI documents here – but a substantial trove of WH papers.
Unlike Presidents – who can both declassify documents at whim AND decide that WH papers are personal papers.
Vice Presidents can do NEITHER.
Not only is their no legitimate way for TS/SCI documents to get to the Biden Center, there is no legitimate way for WH Papers to get to the Biden center.
All these documents were INTENTIONALLY moved to the Biden Center – Illegally – After Biden was out of Government Office.
They were not moved there accidentally. It is BARELY arguable that TS/SCI documents were accidentally moved – along with lots of other WH papers that Biden could not legitimately have in his possession and certainly could not transfer to a private Think Tank.
Regardless the Espionage Act does not require Intent. Recklessness is sufficient.
It is arguable – even likely that Trump’s and Biden’s documents arrived at their homes legitimately. Possibly without Trump or Biden’s knowledge as a result of the GSA transition.
There is no legitimate or inadvertant what the documents got from Biden’s DE home to the Biden Center.
I am presuming that these documents were transfered innitially to Biden’s home in 2017.
That is an assumption – it may be false. But it is the ONLY assumption that does not result in even more violations of the Espionage Act.
If it turns out these documents went somewhere other than Biden’s home in 2017 – there is an additional crime.
The Vice Presidents and Ex-Vice presidents differ from Presidents and ex-presidents in several ways.
Presidents can at whim declassify anything. WH papers of a president are ultimately the Presidents Personal Papers – not the Vice Presidents.
While NARA may have custody of some of them while a private presidential library is constructed, All WH papers during a presidency are a presidents personal papers and go to his Library. This is not true of Vice Presidents.
There is no legal Claim for Ex-VP Biden to Obama Administration papers.
Ex-VP Biden not only may not have classified documents – Except possibly in his Government office in his home.
But he may not have WH documents of any kind from his tenure. Those belong to Obama, and are either in Obama’s custody or that of NARA.
+100 @ JCH