Below is my column in the Hill on how the two criminal investigations over classified documents could create an unprecedented constitutional conflict in 2024. We are likely to have two candidates with their own respective special counsels. One or both could be indicted. Either way, the election could protect the winner practically from prosecution either due to a self-pardon or an internal Justice Department rule. A vote for Biden or Trump could therefore literally prove to be a “get out of jail free” card.
Here is the column:
President Biden has declared that the criminal investigation into his possession of classified material ultimately will fizzle out because “there is no ‘there’ there.” To the contrary, there obviously is a great deal “there,” enough that a special counsel was appointed to investigate a classified documents trail from a D.C. office closet to Biden’s Delaware garage.
Although the president wants Americans to look down the road past images of classified documents next to his vintage Corvette, we may be heading into one of the most bizarre, unsettling moments in our constitutional history.
There is now a distinct possibility we will have not just two leading candidates campaigning for the presidency with their own respective special counsels in tow, but two candidates who could be indicted or close to indictment at the time of the election. That would present some novel political and constitutional questions.
A great deal already has been written about comparisons of the two cases and the obvious differences. The Justice Department’s Trump investigation includes not only accusations of mishandling classified material but also of false statements and obstruction; far more documents are involved, too. Yet enough similarities exist that Justice could weigh charges in both cases, even if only misdemeanors.
Moreover, the Biden allegations are serious in their own way. The documents in Donald Trump’s possession at Mar-a-Lago were largely housed in a locked storage room with security added at the FBI’s request; there was ’round-the-clock Secret Service protection and camera surveillance. That is not ideal — but it is better than a dozen documents scattered around a closet, garage and library in different states.
There is no question of gross mishandling in Biden’s case. There is only the question of who was responsible. If the evidence shows that Joe Biden used any of these clearly marked documents to write his book or other projects, his insistence on “inadvertent” possession will take on a more sinister meaning as an effort to deceive the public and the FBI.
Both of these investigations could easily take a year or more. The average time of a special counsel investigation of a president is over 900 days. These two investigations should take less than the average — but they are starting in 2023, with a presidential election in 2024. Trump has already announced, and Biden is expected to do so soon.
The one indictment scenario — One possible scenario that many Democrats are hoping for is that Biden is spared and Trump indicted. This option could be the most explosive with many in the country seeing a double standard.
The no indictment scenario — If the investigations of both Trump and Biden extend to August 2024, the department could follow its policy of not taking actions that might affect an election. Indicting a candidate clearly falls into that category.
The double indictment scenario — The Justice Department could also make fast work of both cases and indict both men. This option however could require a change in Justice Department policy.
This is where it gets wicked.
There has long been a debate over whether a sitting president can be indicted. While some of us believe there is no constitutional barrier to indicting a sitting president, the Justice Department has maintained that such an indictment is improper. Unless the Justice Department changed its view, it could indict Trump but might decline or delay indicting Biden. Moreover, given its policy, Justice could indicate it was holding final action on an indictment of Biden until after the election. A vote for Biden might then be seen as a way to effectively block any indictment.
Under any scenario (absent a decision to forego any charges), both candidates would face indictments or the possibility of indictment after the election. The vote literally could come down to who you want to see pardoned and who you would like to see jailed.
Even if the Justice Department elects not to indict Biden due to a lack of evidence, as opposed to a constitutional bar, it still would mean that Trump’s election could be used to negate any indictment over Mar-a-Lago. Many voters likely would view that as unequal treatment, and a self-pardon prospect could become a rallying point for many voters.
The right of a president to self-pardon is another subject of long-standing debate. Just as I believe a sitting president can be indicted, I also believe a president can pardon himself. Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution states the pardon power allows a president to “grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.” There is no language limiting who can be pardoned other than that it can only extend to federal crimes. Others disagree. However, it could prove the ultimate factor for the single-issue voter: Who do you want pardoned or prosecuted?
A couple of other potential wrinkles exist.
Trump’s election could result in a pardon, even a prospective pardon for federal crimes. However, he cannot pardon himself for state crimes. For example, Georgia’s Fulton County district attorney, Fani Willis, is investigating Trump over the 2020 election; the case has some major evidentiary and legal issues to overcome in any trial — but Trump could well be indicted.
If elected, Trump could clear the boards of any and all federal crimes, but he would face a trial in Georgia during his second term.
Biden could have his own pardon surprise. If his son, Hunter, is eventually indicted, Biden could follow the lead of President Clinton, who pardoned his own half-brother. It would be another abuse of the pardon power for personal benefit. Clinton, however, waited until the final days of his second term to act; if Biden was looking for a reason not to run, he might pardon his son and then withdraw from a reelection bid.
This may all sound like a constitutional version of the popular movie, “Everything Everywhere All at Once,” in which one finds oneself in some bizarre parallel universe.
In the movie, protagonist Alpha Waymond explains that “every rejection, every disappointment has led you here to this moment” — and that may be the case with the American electorate. Our duopoly of power has led us to a series of compromises that have brought us to this moment, and we may have to decide which of two candidates we most want to pardoned or prosecuted.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can find his updates online @JonathanTurley.
368 thoughts on “Pardon or Prosecute? The 2024 Election and the “Get Out of Jail Free” Vote”
my guess is they had this “get rid of Joe” strategy cooked up last year. But then some genius decided that they would get Trump and Joe. Yes, they will manage to get rid of Joe but Trump, dunno
Tonight on ‘The Under-CoverUp”
— On this episode we investigate the conspiring possibilities of the Upper Gastrointestinal Bowels of the Deep State, with sleuth conjecture and innuendo paramount to only the privy Few whom Rule this Country.
THE PLAYBOOK: Crypto for Candidates
This thing ‘reeks’ of wrong doing [FTX], and it’s my gut feeling that it is similar to the Iran–Contra affair,
wherein this time money needed was raised by SBF/FTX Fraud to fund DNC Candidate(s) and RINOs for Congress and related activities.
Ask yourself: How many Covert-Ops was FTX Funding? How many Other Crypto Exchanges are Funding Covert-Ops?
Remember, these Crypto Wallets are just like Swiss Bank Accounts, Identification by Numbers Only. You can track the Wallet/Account trades but the Wallet/Account Holder is Anonymous.
SBF was handling Billions in Wallets.
So if you were him, You ‘Donate’ to Party Candidates to C.Y.A. and do some ‘Work’ for the CIA, and you then have your Ass covered, even at the Judaical Bench level presumably. (Although this did not work for Jeffery Epstein)
THE FLASHBACK: The Analogous Similarities:
CIA needed to buy Arms-for-Contras to fight Sandinos (Communist in Central America) so it sold weapons to Iran and used the proceeds to fund the Operation.
The Deep State (Obama Era NSS) needed to finance a War against Donald Trump et.al. (The Republicans) so it used the SBF/FTX Ponzi Pyramid scheme to bilk proceeds ($) from the Crypto Markets to fund the Operation(s).
THE ANALYSIS: All of Hillary’s, Obama’s, Bidens’s Men (a.k.a.: The Swamp)
Ask yourself Why did: Ret. NSA James Robert Clapper Jr.? Gen. Mark Milley? Defense Secretary Mark Esper? and Others come out of the Swamp to testify against Donald Trump.
They were on Barack Obama’s NSS as was Hillary Clinton (Sec. of State).
Obviously the Operatives have to distance themselves from the Former President (Obama) and Former Sec. of State/ Candidate (Hillary Clinton), so send the Minions.
The Ukraine Hearings (Remember Vindman’s – Quid pro Quo call), the January 6th Hearings and Other Impeachments, they were all at the direction of the Obama Era NSS.
Now tell me Who[?] Who really attempted and controlled the Media and Elections?
These directives came down from the Top Leaders of the Democrat Party in one way or another.
TODAY’S TROUBLESOME PRESIDENT: “Kill two Birds with one Stone”:
‘Distract’ with a Classified Documents diversion (Don’t look at the Asset(s)-and-Case Worker(s)[Obama Era NSS]
and Make Way for the 2024 Candidate(s) [Newsome].
Now after getting caught with Their ‘Tits in the Wringer’ – It will only get better …
Stay Tuned! We’ll be right back after a word from Our Sponsor:
Depends – When the S.H.T.F. be sure to be wearing Depends Defense Shield Plus undergarments to control the ‘Leakage’, It’s the only way to stay High & Dry (Just ask Hunter & Joe Biden).
Bankman-Fried spent millions on Dem campaigns
Crypto PACs backed by Sam Bankman-Fried, Scaramucci plan last-minute ad blitz for midterm elections
Published Fri, Oct 21 20224:31 PM EDT Updated Sat, Oct 22 20224:23 PM EDT
Crypto Seeing Broad Bipartisan Support in Upcoming US Midterm Elections
What Is The Crypto Freedom PAC Planning For The Midterm Elections?
Democrats’ ‘newest megadonor’ plummets on Election Day, forced to sell crypto company to biggest rival
Sam Bankman-Fried, CEO of crypto exchange FTX, forced into bailout sale after seeing $6B in withdrawals ahead of Tuesday
Just Google: Crypto for Candidates
and peruse the page 2 and beyond.
James Clapper denies lying to Congress about NSA surveillance program
Hillary Clinton personally approved plan to share Trump-Russia allegation with the press in 2016, campaign manager says
National Security Staff (NSS)
On May 26, 2009, President Barack Obama merged the White House staff supporting the Homeland Security Council (HSC) and the National Security Council (NSC) into one National Security Staff (NSS). The HSC and NSC each continue to exist by statute as bodies supporting the President.
United States Homeland Security Council (HSC)
United States National Security Council (NSC)
P.S.: And that’s How You Do It ! Bobby Woodward-n-Bernstein.
Now what do you think about Trump’s assertions Today (Jan. 26th 2023), given the release of the Twitter Files revelations [?]
IMHO: Validated & His persecution was funded by Crypto via the Deep State NSS.
Down as Grand Jury Expires
By Katie Benner, Adam Goldman and Charlie Savage
Sept. 14, 2022
WASHINGTON — When John H. Durham was assigned by the Justice Department in 2019 to examine the origins of the investigation into the 2016 Trump campaign’s ties to Russia, President Donald J. Trump and his supporters expressed a belief that the inquiry would prove that a “deep state” conspiracy including top Obama-era officials had worked to sabotage him.
U.S. prosecutor on Durham probe joins law firm Kasowitz Benson
By Andrew Goudsward – January 9, 20232:39 PM PST
The later Article had held the Clues:
(Reuters) – Law firm Kasowitz Benson Torres said Monday that it has hired Jonathan Algor, a prosecutor formerly assigned to U.S. Special Counsel John Durham’s probe into the FBI’s 2016 investigation of possible collusion between Donald Trump’s campaign and the Russian government.
Algor, who also worked as a federal prosecutor in the Eastern District of New York, will be a partner in New York focused on white-collar defense and commercial and international litigation. …
… Algor is a U.S. Army veteran and two-time recipient of the Bronze Star Medal. He worked on investigations involving terrorism, cybercrime, foreign counterintelligence and money laundering during his tenure as a federal prosecutor, the firm said. …
(Read: At the end of this Article)
… Algor is the second member of Durham’s team to join a major law firm in New York in recent months. Andrew DeFilippis, a former federal prosecutor in Manhattan who led the Sussmann prosecution, joined Sullivan & Cromwell last year.
[Algor ” joined Sullivan & Cromwell last year. “]
Sullivan & Cromwell is the lead Counsel in the SBF-FTX Bankruptcy Case, Algor will sanitize the Crypto for Canidates “Slush Funds” [Covert-Ops Crypto Wallets] and the Judge will seal the Case.
The fundamental assumption here is that the documents are still classified. Obama’s Executive Order 13526 Section 3.5(b) states that BOTH the President and the Vice President are exempt from the normal declassification review process and puts no restrictions on the means and manner of declassification by either position. Presumably, either one could simply declare a document declassified.
US Navy vs Egan opinion declared the Executive Branch has almost unlimited power to determine who gets to see classified materials.
Judicial Watch vs Archives Judge Berman stated that the court must defer to the decisions of the Executive branch as to which documents are classified, belong to the Archives, or are considered personal documents and correspondence.
These would seem to clear BOTH Trump and Biden.
District court cases don’t serve as precedent.
They can be cited as precedent in the federal system.
Circuit Court of Appeals and SCOTUS rulings serve as precedent in the federal system, but district court decisions are not binding on other federal courts, and even Circuit Court rulings are only precedent within that circuit.
District Court decisions are citable, but not binding. I know because I’ve personally experienced this.
“but not binding. “
Rice is binding. Eat rice so you stop having diarrhea of the mouth.
District court cases don’t serve as precedent.
The better response, What part, if any, did Judge Berman get wrong?
What nonsense. Absolutely there is a pyramid of importance from the supreme court down to the lowests state court,
But state commonwealth courts in one state are frequently heavily influenced by decisions in other commonwealth courts in other states.
Nothing short of a decision by the supreme court is absolutely binding – asn even that is not binding on the Supreme court.
With specific reference to JW v NARA – it is merely the most recent of a strong of cases ALL reaching near identical conclusions.
One of the reasons that multiple district courts all reached the same conclusion is “the constitution” – duh.
Which is binding on Everyone.
Next, JW v NARA is the most recent and most authorativer decision on this issue. There is also no decision that is at odds with it anywhere – again why ? Duh ! The constitution.
It is entirely possible that shoudl this ever go to the supreme court they MIGHT tinker at the edges of what lower courts have said.
What SCOTUS is not going to do is decided “To H311 with the constitution, read the PRA litterally and broadly”
Just not happening.
Next you can rant all you want abotu “not binding” – but it is SELF EVIDENT – that NARA the WH, DOJ really think it is.
If they did not – NARA would have rushed into court against Trump – They did not. Why ? Because they KNOW they would have lost.
Finally, and most critically the odds of courts ever saying – nope JW v NARA got the law wrong and people who relied on that mad made choices are suddenly transformed into criminals – is ZERO.
You can NEVER reach beyond reasonable doubt when you have a defendant relying on Caselaw that is uncontradicted, and previously unchallenged that subsequent courts reverse.
Just not happening.
The president has the power to decide what is personal and what is not.
He may do so however he pleases within the domain of WH document AND that is unreviewable.
NARA has no power or authority to retreive documents from Ex-presidents.
And all presidents since JW v NARA are entitled to rely on that decisions until it is actually reversed.
Which is not happening – see: The constitution.
Generally you are correct. But there are differences. The constitution is the root of executive power, and the case law you cite hinged on the fact that exclusively executive powers are all vested in the president. The constitution delegates specific powers to the VP. They are not the same.
There is caselaw on declassification and the power of the VP to identify records as personal, that caselaw recognizes broad powers for the VP – but not nearly so broad as those of the president.
But most importantly – Biden is not claiming that the documents found at BC were declassified, nor that they were personal.
Trump has asserted that he declassified the documents found at MAL and that they are his personal property.
As Turley has repeatedly noted – Biden’s statements are addmissions against his own interests.
“Trump has asserted that he declassified the documents found at MAL and that they are his personal property.”
But he has not been able to prove those assertions true in court. He is still required to prove he declassified those documents and what he claims as personal.
But he has not been able to prove those assertions true in court.
None of this gets before a judge.
First the warrant gets tossed, and poof, no evidence.
Any moron can see that Trump made up the “declassification” lie on the fly. First, the NARA missed the papers, and asked for them to be returned. He drug his feet, but DID return some of them. They asked for the rest–he kept dragging his feet, so they obtained a subpoena, which his lawyers NEVER sought to quash. If the papers had been declassified, which might entitle him to have them, then the lawyers would have sought a a court order quashing the subpoena, but they didn’t. In response to the subpoena, more were returned, and his lawyer lied by claiming all had been returned. The NARA kept asking for the rest–Trump kept stonewalling–so, they had to obtain a search warrant. The lie about “declassifying” came only after the search warrant–Trump took the FBI going through his personal effects as a personal affront, so his lawyers came up with the lie that the documents had been declassified. The foregoing factual chronology is true, and is the reason why Trump won’t be able to prove his claims in a court of law.
Good luck challenging the warrant.
You can’t even bring yourself to identify the basis of the challenge.
Trump had the burden of proof when he was claiming those documents were his personal property. He was given the chance to do exactly that by the special master that he requested. Instead he chose to obfuscate and demand Judge Cannon tell judge Dearie he couldn’t do that. He didn’t want to prove his claim under oath because he knew he was lying.
He didn’t want to prove his claim under oath because he knew he was lying.
No. Trump is waiting the DoJ to declare in a criminal charge that anything is classified.
The warrant says “marked classified”. But the warrant is so general , as to trip the Constituion’s protections against “general warrants”
It’s not general. It’s quite specific.
Maybe you have read what is kept secret. Why don’t you tell us, or are you admitting that you made a claim without knowledge?
The warrant is public. Didn’t you read it when Judge Reinhardt unsealed it?
Tell us which part of the warrant shows why this case shouldn’t have gone before a judge.
A judge signed the warrant. Your demand makes no sense.
A judge signed the warrant. Your demand makes no sense.
Faking obtuseness, to hide the pedantry.
NA should have petitioned a Judge to order the release of disputed documents. In the United States, with its adversarial justice system, opposing sides present evidence to a judge, and a ruling is handed down.
But that lacks the political dirty tricks cachet to sway the low information voters.
It was overbroad because it allowed the seizure of documents and other items which were merely in the vicinity of the classified documents.
The judge disagrees with you, and the intermingling of classified with non-classified documents speaks to the lack of appropriate care for the former. In addition, the PRA isn’t limited to classified documents; unclassified government docs also needed to be returned.
Get a legal court order.
Which judge would that be ?
Do you have a cour decision stating that intermingling of classified and nonclassifed documents violates the law ?
How about actual caselaw – Judicial Watch V. NARA
“The Court will grant the motion to dismiss pursuant to Rule 12(b)(1) because plaintiff’s
claim is not redressable. NARA does not have the authority to designate materials as
“Presidential records,” NARA does not have the tapes in question, and NARA lacks any right,
duty, or means to seize control of them. In other words, there has been no showing that a remedy
would be available to redress plaintiff’s alleged injury even if the Court agreed with plaintiff’s
characterization of the materials. Since plaintiff is completely unable to identify anything the
Court could order the agency to do that the agency has any power, much less, a mandatory duty,
to do, the case must be dismissed.”
Judge Reinhardt, obviously.
And the DOJ is not NARA.
The judge disagrees with you, and the intermingling of classified with non-classified documents speaks to the lack of appropriate care for the former.
The Judge that signed the warrant? He only knows what lies the FBI told. Another reason Trump will never be charged. Then Trump has a position to challenge the Warrant. That’s how warrants generally work. The cant be challenged until the product of the search is submitted as evidence.
BUT if, as you claim the FBI saw classified documents, why did they not get that warrant at the first inkling, and get the classified documents and charge Trump with a crime?
We all know the answer. The Presidents power to declassify is absolute, and the entire case would be tossed
That is the singular reason we know the DoJ knows classified docs in only the smoke to hide a political hit job.
“Trump will never be charged” is a conjecture, not a fact. Unlike you, I don’t pretend to know things I don’t know. Maybe he’ll be charged, maybe he won’t; only time will tell.
And you’re just lying when you say “you claim the FBI saw classified documents” — other than the ones turned over — prior to the search. I never said anything like that.
Anonymous – are you suggesting that the FBI has the right to seize unclassified Presidential Records from a former President? Where is that in the PRA? The FBI is supposed to limited to investigation of crimes. If documents can be seized because they are “in the vicinity” of the legitimate subjects of the subpoena, why not allow the FBI to go through the entire house, and surrounding property, and dig up the backyard, and then jimmy his car, and repeat the search at other Trump properties? Of course, he is GUILTY of something.
“The FBI is supposed to limited to investigation of crimes. ”
The warrant identified 3 alleged crimes.
“why not allow the FBI to go through the entire house, and surrounding property, and dig up the backyard, and then jimmy his car, and repeat the search at other Trump properties?”
That would be an illegal general warrant. I think you’re smart enough to know that.
List the three crimes. Provide your arguments and supporting facts that made it impossible for the courts to rule first.
Your answer, you neither have the facts nor a good argument. You were hoping to create the argument by using an illegal search.
You prove your case, not by citing any facts, but by saying we don’t know what is behind room #3. That is disingenuous and deceitful.
Being specific does not preclude being generally.
A warrant that says – Take Everything – is specific.
It is also general.
This warrant didn’t say “take everything.”
It came close, but that is not the point.
YOU claimed something can not be both specific and general and it clearly can be.
The Warrant was an unconstitutional general warrant.
If you could not grasp that before – you should be able to now with the Biden searches.
Is there a reasons why with Trump when they found one doc they had to take everything else in the box and the two adjacent boxes ?
They had not problems with Biden only taking the classified document.
You also argued that NARA was entitled to unclassified WH papers.
Biden’s classified docs were mixed in lots of unclassified government papers. That are even more government property than Trump’s
Yet no one is taking them.
Why the double standard ?
You say Trump was uncooperative.
How is Biden cooperative ?
He knew or should have known the Docs were classified when he took them.
He knew or should have known when he moved them – multiple times.
Are you going to claim that Biden had Classified docs in his library, in his garage, in his office in a Chinese funded think tank, aparently in storage in China town in DC – and he never once saw any of these ?
That it was OK to get on his high horse on 60 minutes about Trump’s recklessness – all Trump’s documents were in presidential offices or a SCIF and all guarded by Secret Service – while Biden had docs strewn recklessly all over the place ?
FBI Searched MAL in 15 hours. It has taken 3 months so far with Biden – and this is most certainly not done. It is clear from the recently found classified doc from his time in the senate – that there are lots of other places that must now be searched – like Biden’s Udel archives.
Regardless, you claim Biden is cooperating – then why is it takening 3 months+ to search ? Why can’t he tell the FBI where things are ?
And why AFTER Biden’s lawyers seach – is the FBI finding still more – is that cooperating ?
The very best defense you have of Biden is that he is careless and demented.
Otherwise he is a reckless SOB who has used to power of government
to assure that “no one F#$ks with a Biden”.
Another one of Biden’s remarks that will come back to haunt him.
Biden, Democrats, You have weaponized government against your political enemies – and you have been caught AGAIN.
No, it didn’t say anything close to “take everything.”
At any rate, if Trump is charged, he can make that argument to the court; we’ll find out whether he does, and if so, which of us the court agrees with.
“Biden’s classified docs were mixed in lots of unclassified government papers.”
a) My claim was actually about the PRA, not about all unclassified government docs. Do you understand the difference? If not, figure it out; if so, don’t move the goalposts.
b) You haven’t presented any evidence of the classified docs being mixed with other papers that the PRA applies to, and knowing you, you won’t.
“FBI Searched MAL in 15 hours. It has taken 3 months so far with Biden”
Trump had over a year before the FBI searched MaL.
“At any rate, if Trump is charged, he can make that argument to the court;”
That is what the DOJ should have done, make the argument in court. Instead, the DOJ acted like a fascist organization and raided MAL.
You can see one side but not the other. That is your failure, but it is also the failure of wannabe fascists.
Trump had over a year before the FBI searched MaL.
Had over a year what? Trump had his personal records in his home. What would you expect him to do?
By contrast, Biden has had classified documents for over 14 years. Moved and moved some more. Easily able to see and respond to his possession of classified docs, he knows he has no power to posses. Biden has been on clock, since that very day docs were moved into his various properties, and rentals.
Trump has never been on the clock with his papers. They are his.
Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.
“But he has not been able to prove those assertions true in court. He is still required to prove he declassified those documents and what he claims as personal.”
If he wants them back he must prove that in a civil court. Which is why the Cannon case should have been allowed to continue.
But it was not, th e11th appellate did NOT decide that the case had no merits, it decided that Cannon had no civil jurisdiction over a warrant.
That was error. Regardless, the case ended without this issue being addressed.
You claim Trump has not proven. While he had posession of the Doc’s he had ZERO burden of proof – that was on DOJ/FBI/NARA and they did not even try – because they would have lost.
The Warrant makes this a Criminal case – and Again the burden of proof is on DOJ – Not Trump.
If you wanted to see if Trump can prove docs are declassified or personal – you should have allowed the case before Cannon to proceed.
That is the only place the Burden of proof MIGHT have been on Trump.
The 11th Circuit’s ruling was correct, and Trump chose not to appeal it.
It is self evident the 11th circuit was wrong BY YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS.
You repeatedly claim that Trump has not proven this or that.
The 11th circuit case was Trump’s attempt to Prove those things.
The 11th appeals did NOT say – “you failed to do so”.
It said – “You are not allowed to do so”.
That makes a lie of all your claims that Trump has not tried to prove things – which BTW are NOT his burden to prove.
But it makes obvious why the 11th appeals is constitutionally wrong.
A right that you can not go to court to protect is not a right.
Trump claimed 4th and 5th amendment rights violations.
The 11th appeals did NOT say – your rights were not infringed,
That requires an actual hearing before a trial court, which the 11th appeals did not allow.
It said you are not allowed to claim your rights were violated in civil court.
John that is a great explanation. The 11th circut denied a citizen to challenge the govt unconstitutional actions. The judges of the 11th circuit knew what the outcome would be if Trump were allowed to seek a ruling on the facts. They could not allow that to happen.
Not sure what the DoJ is going to do. But if Garland allows a SC report, the egg on Garland’s face only get worse. Garland has really screwed the pooch by Searching MaL.
Except that Biden didn’t commit any crimes. Trump did: not just stealing the documents, but filing a false affidavit and lying about declassifying them. Turley has NO credibility since he went on the Fox payroll.
“Except that Biden didn’t commit any crimes.”
With absolute certainty – given the current evidence – no.
But the probability that Biden committed an actual crime is quite high.
You shoudl actually read Turley’s analysis. The only element required to prove Joe Biden committed a crime at the moment is demonstrating Joe was aware that there were classified documents at ANY of these locations. None of these locations are a SCIF or an Ex-VP’s office.
This is one of the reasons why it is relevant if there is evidence that Biden referenced any of these docs for any book he was working on.
Proof that Biden SAW these docs subsequent to his time as VP anywhere EXCEPT in his ex-VP SCIF or office is proof of a crime.
Proof that he ordered the docs moved – and knew there were classified docs is proof of a crime.
“Trump did: not just stealing the documents, but filing a false affidavit and lying about declassifying them.”
Conversely Trump continues to maintain these docs are declassified, his property and they were all found in an expresidenitical office or SCIF.
It is not impossible that Trump actually committed a crime – but it is in fact highly unlikely.
You say he lied about declassifying them – and your proof ?
Hopefully you accept that he had the opower to do so.
The word LIE means something. It does not mean something you do not beleive to be true.
A lie is a statement by another that THEY KNOW to be true.
Trump is in very little danger. Biden is in far greater danger.
Can you explain a legal way that a classified document from Biden’s time at the senate got to his home ?
There are more legal than illegal ways for Classified docs to be at MAL.
On nearly every major news story of the past Decade – Fox has been right and the rest of the left MSM has been wrong.
Fox is far from perfect, they lean right, their accuracy is not high. But they are an order of magnitude more trustworthy on anything even slightly political than NYT, CNN or WaPo.
I wish it were otherwise. Not long ago WaPo and NYT were the most accurate reporting in the world.
Today they are worthless on political issues.
I am sure Turley would forgo Fox in a minute if CNN would give him a similar contract.
But Truley like myriads of actual civil libertarians will get rare appearances on the MSM – because they are not interested in truth if it is at odds with ideology. Much like you.
Notwithstanding Obama’s EO 13256 Section 3.5(b) .. . afaict, the constitution clearly states the president, and only the president, is responsible for national security, subject to the consent of Congress and judicial constitutional oversight.
Brian, the EO you are citing allows the VP to only declassify documents that HE classified, not any other classified docs.
That EO also allows the VP to delegate classification authority to others, and to declassify anything classified by someone he supervises.
That EO also allows the VP to delegate classification authority to others, and to declassify anything classified by someone he supervises.
Biden cannot declassify documents he admits he knows nothing about. Blames it on staff.
You’re back to stealing classified documents.
Work on your reading comprehension. I was simply correcting hullbobby’s false statement about the EO, not making a claim that Biden *had* declassified these.
Says the pedantic troll
The subject of the post is Bidens exposure to crimes concerning classified documents. So, yes your response is in relation to the Biden exposure.
Hypothetical that do not address this specific set of circumstances is meaningless.
Double meaningless, because Biden has already admitted he knows nothing about these documents and no idea how he is in possession of the documents.
By contrast, Trump has never wavered from his position that all the documents he had are Personal, and not covered by the PRA.
Trump did negotiate with the National Archives and the two reached an agreement….Until Garland decided to get a warrant and show up with a battalion of armed agents to take even more of Trumps personal papers.
My comment wasn’t posted as a reply to the column. It was posted as a reply to a false claim by hullbobby.
Again: work on your reading comprehension.
I am unable to discern an intelligent argument you might have. Do you wish to rephrase it?
Delegation would require a document.
So Anonymous, your theory is that Trump didn’t declassify his docs but that Biden had some mysterious power to delegate to ANYONE the power to declassify? Please stop, you are embarrassing yourself.
In Anonymous’ world Biden didn’t know about the docs, but he either declassified them or he delegated to the guy that services his Vette the power to declassify them. Or maybe Hunter declassified the docs.
When these guys get tired of defending Biden and his obvious corruption they will pretend that they never liked the guy. This what they now claim about Hilary. They are a joke.
“So Anonymous, your theory is that Trump didn’t declassify his docs but that Biden had some mysterious power to delegate to ANYONE the power to declassify?”
Had I wanted to say that, I would have said that. Is your reading comprehension so weak that you can’t tell the difference between that and what I actually said?!?
I don’t know whether or not Trump declassified the docs in his possession, and I don’t pretend to know. It’s also legally irrelevant to the alleged crimes.
And what part of “allows the VP to delegate classification authority to others, and to declassify anything classified by someone he supervises” is so hard for you to understand that you’d bizarrely equate it with “ANYONE”?? He doesn’t supervise the vast majority of people.
The rest of your comment is pure BS. You cannot deal truthfully with what I actually have said, so you just substitute garbage that I didn’t say and don’t believe.
Please stop, you are embarrassing yourself.
“I don’t know whether or not Trump declassified the docs in his possession, and I don’t pretend to know. “
ATS, this is the second time today you have told the truth. Congrats and thank you.
” It’s also legally irrelevant to the alleged crimes.”
The hook was the documents were classified. If they weren’t classified there was no hook and one is going to have a hard time proving they weren’t classified. That is why the left didn’t want to use the court system.
The left ended up acting like dictators and raided MAL
These would seem to clear BOTH Trump and Biden.
Biden can only declassify information he classified.
But Obama’s EO from 2009, if memory serves, says that a VP can only declassify documents which he had earlier classfied. Even if the VP documents had been “declassified”, it seems that they would still be “Presidential Records” under the broad definition used by the Archivist against Trump.
If Merrick Garland’s past history of maintaining a double standard for Democrats continues, there will be no prosecution of Joe Biden. I mean he even allowed Biden’s attorneys to do the “searching” for classified documents for heaven’s sake ! I hope I’m wrong, but I feel that Garland’s appointment of a Special Counsel is just window dressing to make it look more “official”. Thank you, Jonathan, for an excellent review of the many constitutional issues.
There will be no prosecution of Biden.
There may be a damning SC report.
There may be prosecutions of some people involved in handling the Biden docs.
It was never likely Trump was going to be prosecuted either.
This makes that an order of magnitude less likely.
The purpose of the whole Trump nonsense was political.
As things are the negative political consequences are Biden’s.
As well as damage to Garland and the FBI.
The political bias argument regarding DOJ/FBI has been reinforced.
The use of federal powers to punish political opponents and influence elections has been driven home.
Biden’s incompetence and recklessness have been amplified.
My expectation is that Biden will announce he is not running in 2024 shortly and this will mostly end.
The House will continue investigations – but the focus will shift from the Biden syndicate to the abuse of government powers by CIA/FBI/DOJ – against ordinary people and to rig elections.
“It was never likely Trump was going to be prosecuted either.
This makes that an order of magnitude less likely.
The purpose of the whole Trump nonsense was political.”
There is more evidence agains trump for indictment than Biden. Trump has obstruction and theft as possible charges. Trump’s problem was self inflicted and he kept making it worse over the course 18 months. He refused to cooperate until he was served with a subpoena and then lied afterwards which led to the subsequent search warrant. The DOJ still needed to search the rest of his properties because there were empty folders found. Trump is not volunteering to have his properties searched compared to Biden. If he is ‘innocent’ as he claims he should have on problem letting the DOJ thoroughly search the rest of his properties.
You keep making the same statements but never support them with facts.
Trump refused to accept the PRA claim to possession. The proper path, is to get the claim in front of a judge far adjudication. NOT by the use of government threat of armed violence, to steal the disputed documents.
Iowan2: Trump doesn’t get to decide the law, and the matter went in front of Judge Cannon, who got seriously benchslapped for going along with Trump’s stupid claim of right of possession and appointment of a special master. She was forced by a higher court–all Republican judges–2 of 3 were appointed by Trump–to dismiss his lawsuit. The FBI didn’t “steal” anything–they were enforcing a search warrant based on probable cause–and, they were in the right. Trump DID steal classified documents and DID lie about returning all of them. The FBI DID find more after Trump lied about returning all of them. No matter how many hours you spend watching Hannity, Tucker, Ingraham and Levin and listening to their spin, these are facts. Biden insisted that his home be searched to be sure no more documents were there. That’s what a moral person does.
Iowan2: Trump doesn’t get to decide the law, and the matter went in front of Judge Cannon
The only thing Judge Cannon was asked to do was assign a Special Master for the personal documents taken from Trump by force.
Iowan2, Trump DID put his claim in front of a judge. He demanded a special master to determine his claims. When the special master ordered trump to make a list of what he claimed to be personal Trump balked and ran to Judge Cannon for protection.
The government spent 18 months giving Trump multiple opportunities to resolve the issue quietly. It wasn’t until NARA had a subpoena issued for the documents and then the lying afterwards about turning in everything that the DOJ finally acted. After 18 months of bending over backwards trying to get documents that were not Trump’s NARA and the DOJ’s patience were gone. It says his fault it got to that point. Not the DOJ’s or NARA. Even the Supreme Court refused to play into Trump’s games on that issue.
You only know the govts claim, that may, but not likely, represent facts.
40 years ago I went through an EPA audit of paperwork as it pertained to by authority to repackage EPA labled chemicals.
One of the procedures, the auditor spent a lot of time questioning and asking for more documents not normally part of he audit.
When he left, he said we were on good terms, the audit showed full compliance.
Until 6 months later when a fine for $250,000 was delivered by FedEx.
Much more to the story, but the parallel is the govt will lie to your face and then slam your with fines and or criminal charges.
Trump was not obstructing, he was negotiating. That is not a obstruction. If NA had a problem, a suit in civil court, has always been the next step.
Iowan 2: Trump had nothing over which to “negotiate”–he was in possession of stolen documents to which he had no right. It’s like a bank robber trying to “negotiate” with the government about returning money they stole. They don’t have a leg to stand on. The NARA rightfully demanded return of the papers, and he only gave back some of them, but kept more than he returned. He forced them to get a subpoena and then a search warrant. His claim of possession was a lie–“they’re not theirs–they’re mine”. The mentally telepathic “declassification” scam was made up to convince the disciples that he wasn’t a thief, and only happened after the FBI execution of the search warrant. He KNEW better–he had lots of lawyers, one of whom lied about all of the papers being returned. Just more of his sociopathic lying and narcissism. Trump can never be wrong, and if someone forces him to do something, he tries to retaliate.
” Trump had nothing over which to “negotiate”–he was in possession of stolen documents to which he had no right. It’s like a bank robber trying o “negotiate” with the government about returning money they stole. They don’t have a leg to stand on.”
Gigi the above statement is PURE nonsense.
Trump “stole” absolutely nothing.
No one scaled the walls of the WH on Jan 21, and purloined documents.
Biden has far more risk of having “stolen” documents than Trump – VP’s have far less claims that Presidents.
That said claiming Biden “stole” documents is also a weak claim.
“The NARA rightfully demanded return of the papers, and he only gave back some of them, but kept more than he returned.”
The courts have already decided that NARA has absolutely no power or authority under the PRA or any other way to demand the return of documents. The courts have told them to “pound sand” – that is the state of the law dating back to Clinton.
You do not like the law – fine, but you are going to have to amend the constitution to get the law you want because the reason that Presidents and to a much lessor extent vice president can take whatever they want is THE COUNSTITUTION. The courts are reading the PRA in an extremely limited manner – because otherwise it si unconstitutional.
I personally do not care. But Trump and Biden are BOTH entitled to have the law applied to them in the same way that the courts have said ti works in the past – in the same way that it has been applied to Clinton and Bush and Obama.
There is no crime of “But Trump”
The claim that docs were stolen Applies clearly to Hillary – there is no circumstances at all where she has a property or ownership interest in any government documents.
It applies to a much lessor extent to Biden – as VP’s have SOME power to declare some government documents Personal.
With respect to Trump the “stolen” claim does not apply AT ALL to anything that is a WH Document. PERIOD.
And The CASELAW unequivolcally says that NARA has no power, and no authority – not only to recover the documents, but not ever to decide what is personal or presidential. There is ZERO doubt of this.
There is a reasont hat NARA did not go to court and get the court to order Trump to turn over the documents.
Because the court would have told them to “Pound Sand”
Just as there is a reason that Attorney Bray did not go to court to get an order to retrieve subpeoned documents from MAL.
Because while it is highly likely the courts would have allowed him to retrive COPIES of documents that were responsive to the subpeona.
Subpeona’s are NOT Court orders, they are NOT orders of posession. They are orders to testify or proved evidence. You can not take ownership of something by subpeona.
Had Attorney Bray tried to get a court order SEIZING Doicuments how would have run smack into the very same problem NARA has.
ZERO power or authority to do so.
The courts have been universally clear – While the Government including NARA can go to court and get an order to retrieve vital information from ex-presidents, they can not go to court to seize PROPERTY, NARA – or Bray can got to court to obtian the information that is in Trump’s posession, But not the Property. The CONTENTS of the documents are information. the Documents them selves are PROPERTY.
This gets more complex if the documents are not WH Dcouments – but so far we know next to nothing that we can actually trust about any of these documents – whether in Biden’s posession or Trump’s.
Theft is a claim about PROPERTY – and You will absolutely lose it eventually with regard to Trump.
The 11th Appeals court completely botched this sticking their nose where it did not belong.
But it is of little consequence because they also narrowed their own ruling to the domain of the search warrant.
Ultimately th matter will get relitigated on the grounds the Docs are Trump’s property – and Trump will Win.
The Caselaw is unambiguous.
I cited it atleast half a dozen times to Svelaz.
“He forced them to get a subpoena”
Please read the above – you can not seize property by subpeona.
Regardless, no one was FORCED.
If they were DOJ would have been required to Subpeona and get a Warrant for Biden.
“and then a search warrant.”
Or they could have followed the law and done nothing.
“His claim of possession was a lie–“they’re not theirs–they’re mine”.”
And yet the constitution and caselaw says they are.
“The mentally telepathic “declassification” scam was made up to convince the disciples that he wasn’t a thief”
Please use your brain – the Caselaw gives Trump claim to ownership of the documents – Classified or NOT.
This is why Ex-Presidents continue to have a SCIF, because they can continue to own WH Documents – even if they are classified.
Even Ex-VP’s typically have a SCIF – as did Biden.
Whether the documents are classified or declassiffied is an independent issue.
The Doc’s can be classified and Trump’s
Declassified and Trump’s
Classified, government property, but legally in Trump’s posession.
Declassified, Government property but legally in Trump’s possession.
Classified, Government property but not legally in Trump’s posession
Declassified, Government property but not legally in Trump’s posession.
All the same possibilities exist for Biden.
Whether they are still classified or not is a minor issue for Trump. All docs were found in his SCIF ro Ex-Presidents office – where they legally may be – whether classiffied or not, Whether Trump’s property or not.
That said if they remain clasified – which is NOT established. Then Trump is obligated to protect them – so long as he maintains his security clearance whether they are his property or not. They were in a SCIF and inside his ex-Presidential offices guarded by the Secret Service.
Classified or not, Trump’s property or not – there is no violation of the espionage Act.
Demonstrate – as YOU have previously claimed – that the MAL pool boy was running arround with them – and you have an 18 US 793(f) violation – If the docs are still classified.
Presidents can not declassify telepathically. But any act or order of a president while president that either explicitly declassifies a document – such as Trump’s TWO executive orders declassifying all Collusion Delusion documents, Or a verbal order declassifying Docs – with atleast 4 ranking WH staff have testified that Trump occasionally did would be EXPLICITLY Declassifiying.
Implicit declassification would be giving classified information to a person not cleared to have classified information.
Deliberately moving while president classified documents from a secure location to an insecure one. Ripping the clasified binders off of classified documents.
Vice presidents have SIMILAR declassification powers – but limited to only the documents THEY classified.
The presidential declassification power applies to any Classified document.
Not only is this the state of the constitution and the law, But NYT and WaPo wrote about it early in Trump’s presidency.
I can not help that you are not even familiar with left wing nut news.
“and only happened after the FBI execution of the search warrant.”
How many illegal warrants has the FBI been involved with targeting trump or his people ?
Really not a good idea to remind us all that the agents involved in this are the same agents from the same office that were running the illegal and unconstitutional collusion delusion and the illegal and unconstitutional SC investigation. Even the FISA court has invalidated those warrants.
If you want people to put faith int he FBI – do not use the same crooks as were running the collusion delusion – and FOLLOW THE LAW.
“He KNEW better–he had lots of lawyers,”
And he still does. One of whom just recently itemized in a few minues all the points I amde and more.
Neitehr Trump nor his lawyers have backed down. Trump’s claims remain:
The Docs are his property.
They are declassified.
“one of whom lied about all of the papers being returned.”
Obviously not, as there is not even a subpeona to return documents – because their can not be.
You can not take posession by subpeona.
“Just more of his sociopathic lying and narcissism.”
Trump like all of washington is a narcisist. He is obviously not a sociopath.
Nor is he a liar.
If you wish to see an actual liar – look in the mirror, or look at Biden.
“Trump can never be wrong”
He has been wrong many times.
Though far fewer than Biden.
“if someone forces him to do something, he tries to retaliate.”
The only retaliation we have seen is by Biden.
And that is exploding in his face right now.
The documents were not stolen.
“There is more evidence agains trump for indictment than Biden.”
Not even close.
Biden has limited ability to claim docs as his, and limited ability to declassify.
Worse he has already made numerous remarks that will be treated as admissions that the docs are not his, and that they are classified.
Put differently it would have been easy for DOJ to prove the Biden Docs are not Biden’s and are classified – But Biden has already ceded that – so there is no need to prove it.
At this time ALL that DOJ needs to prove for Biden to be guilty of a crime is that he was aware that Classified material was somewhere it was not allowed to be. That is why Turley is refering to books and book notes. Any evidence that Biden had knowledge there were classified docs in his home, garage or BC office – and a crime has been proven.
Trump continues to maintan that the docs are HIS and are delcassified.
In a criminal Trial DOJ – not Trump must prove that BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
That is going to be nearly impossible.
And that is not all they must prove.
DOJ must prove that The ex-presidents office and SCIF are not legal places for Classified docs to be – that is going to be very difficult.
While a garage or Biden Center are obviously illegal places for these documents.
And that is not all they must prove.
After all the above – they must prove that the documents arrived there illegally and at Trump;s direction.
And that is very nearly impossible.
As President Trump can NOT violate the espionage Act.
Trump could have ordered the docs to be dumped on Broadway – and that would be legal.
You must get an actual ACT that is after Trump was president
The Trump case is far more difficult to prosecute than the Biden one.
“Trump has obstruction”
There must be an underlying crime – you can not convict on obstruction without an underlying crime.
I would further note Federal obstruction is very specific and limited.
There is no crime of obstructing an investigation.
“and theft as possible charges.”
You keep raising that – it is stupid.
There is no possible way Trump stole docs, that is not also true of Biden.
But there are dozens of ways for Trump to legallly have documents, that would be illegal for Biden.
“Trump’s problem was self inflicted and he kept making it worse over the course 18 months. He refused to cooperate until he was served with a subpoena and then lied afterwards which led to the subsequent search warrant.”
Maintaining a claim that the documents are his and are declassified is not obstruction.
Claiming innocence is not a crime.
“The DOJ still needed to search the rest of his properties because there were empty folders found.”
You do not seem to grasp that the empty folders are harmful to DOJ – they are arguable evidence of declassification.
Regardless, if DOJ has not already searched every Trump property they are going to search – they are derilict in their duty.
I would be shocked if DOJ has any further searches planned. But you are free to hope.
“Trump is not volunteering to have his properties searched compared to Biden.”
He is not required to, regardless the statement is FALSE – NARA and FBI searched MAL twice.
I suspect that Trump’s other properties have already been searched.
“If he is ‘innocent’ as he claims he should have on problem letting the DOJ thoroughly search the rest of his properties.”
Again you assume that has not occured.
You also make this idiotic claim – that if raised in court would get an immediate mistrial – that a defendent is required to do what law enforcement wants. That is the basis of your non-obstruction obstruction claim.
Failing to kowtow to law enforcement is often dangerous, but never illegal, and never proof of guilt.
Asserting your innocent is not proof of guilt.
Nobody knows how all of this will turn out because the Fake Justice Department script is still being written.
I know more and more about less and less and eventually I’ll know everything about nothing.
Then they’ll make you a media legal “expert.”
I’m not a lawyer, but I took the LSAT once.
*I’d make a fine mediator for the president. .. only a fool would have himself as a client.
I’m not a lawyer, but I represented myself in the court of appeals twice, and won both times after lawyers told me I didn’t have a case.
You’re not Joe Biden. He knows nothing about any of this .. . didn’t even get up this morning.
*you would have been a fool to hire those lawyers.
“[Trump] cannot pardon himself for state crimes. For example, Georgia’s Fulton County district attorney, Fani Willis, is investigating Trump over the 2020 election; the case has some major evidentiary and legal issues to overcome in any trial — but Trump could well be indicted.”
That’s not the only context in which Trump may face state charges. He may still be charged for campaign finance violations in NY (one of the charges that landed his lawyer Michael Cohen in jail), due to tolling, may still face tax fraud charges in NY, perhaps there are other state investigations that are ongoing. He will also go on trial in E. Jean Carroll’s civil defamation case in April, which involves a rape allegation. There is no guarantee that Trump will even become the GOP nominee, much less be elected.
And of course, this is not the only federal crime that’s being investigated for Trump.
If there’s sufficient evidence against either Trump or Biden for any crimes, I hope they’re charged. No one should be above the law.
Trump is the most thoroughly investigated person in the US. No criminal accusations have proven true. His tax records which supposedly would lead to prosecution were illegally released to the world. They show nothing of importance.
The witch hunt continues because that is how the left maintains its political stability. President Biden is implicated in criminal activity that will be pushed under the rug. One only has to consider where Hunter Biden got his information from that led to an $83,000 monthly check. Right now, we can assume from the classified documents hidden next to the Corvette or elsewhere in Biden’s home they created the big paycheck.
The information from the laptop sounds like a Russian spy story with made-up names, a burner phone, and all sorts of ways to hide criminal activity.
ATS likes to link Trump to Biden, believing doing so lessens Biden’s guilt. It doesn’t.
How many gallons of Kool Aid have you drunk, anyway? We all heard Trump ask Raffensberger to “find” 11,780 votes, which he said is “one more than we have”–this proves he KNOWS he lost and was trying to get Raffensberger to help him cheat by misrepresenting the true vote count in Georgia, which is a felony. There were slates of fake electors who lied about his “winning” in swing states, based on the Big Lie–those, too, are felonies. He fomented an insurrection by lying about a “landslide victory” being “stolen” because he can’t accept the fact that he lost a second election. His tax records prove: 1. he’s a lousy businessman–loses millions year after year; this proves that his financial statements for purposes of obtaining loans were false; 2. he claims he “loaned” his children millions of dollars, and took this off of his taxes, instead of declaring them as gifts, which would subject him to gift tax; 3. despite having multiple properties and businesses, pays little to nothing in taxes; 4. who says the tax returns “were illegally released to the world”?.
You claim that Biden is “implicated in criminal activity”–based on what? Hannity? Ingraham? Tucker? Levin–who routinely refers to the “Biden crime family”? Biden didn’t “hide” anything–he was open and honest with the NARA, and anyone else–coming to search his home was HIS idea after HE found some documents in the PennBiden office. Biden is doing the right thing. Now, you’re making up a story about a “big paycheck” coming from “hidden documents”–that’s just your fantasy, as is your belief about what the “laptop” allegedly proves.
“How many gallons of Kool Aid have you drunk, anyway? We all heard Trump ask Raffensberger to “find” 11,780 votes,”
You have to listen more closely and stop pushing junk in your ears. You also need to find your brain. If you keep crazily around like you do, someone is going to cook you and serve you as a chicken sandwich.
Gigi – finding votes that have actually been cast is hardly the same as fabricating them. In this era of weeks of voting by mail or drop-boxes, it is not outlandish to hope that some votes have not been properly accounted for.
The whole “the election was perfect” nonsense is ludicrous.
It is pretty trivial for anyone with an IQ over dirt to figure out how to committ large scale election fraud with Mailin voting.
I might require atleast an IQ of 100 to do so without gtting caught – but not much more.
The history of US and global elections tells us that with certainty – if Fraud is possible and the election is close enough Fraud will occur.
The more complex and insecure the election is the more likely fraud is and the more likely it will be large.
If we did not have large scale outcome altering fraud in 2020, that woudl be shocking.
Regardless if we continue the messy ways we are conducting elections now – it is not a question of if, only when.
Anonymous – Even Javert’s purusit of Jean Valjean pales in comparison to your single-minded pursuit of Trump.
Again: if there’s sufficient evidence against either Trump or Biden for any crimes, I hope they’re charged. No one should be above the law.
The current question is whether Democrats are willing to sacrifice Biden to “Get Trump”
It is possible this was a deep state operation to get rid of both at the same time. Biden will fall. Trump will survive.
“Even Javert’s purusit of Jean Valjean . . .”
And his motivation was a passionate (though wrong-headed) dedication to the law. He was not motivated by a vicious desire to destroy a political opponent.
What needs to be seen here is the blinding light of The Double-Standard Factor. Whoever discovered the Classified Docs in the Penn Office either contacted the Biden Group directly or contacted the FBI which contacted the Biden Group directly.. looking for ‘handling’ direction.. and the plot was hatched to allow Biden’s own personal lawyers to ‘discover’ whatever Classified Docs Biden possessed (claiming ‘surprise’ at how they got there is simply inexcusable..as well as a lie) In this way the Biden Group could control ‘how many’ Docs were found and keep Hunter at arm’s length for all the Docs found at the Del. home where he was living… All of this: clearly Obstruction of Justice.. .that is supposed to disappear because the Biden Group says there is no ‘there’ there..
You are pointing to something that still has not been explained: what caused the clean out of the Penn office and why were lawyers doing it?
That is the question I keep asking myself: Why are $300 an hour lawyers cleaning out an office?
Unless they KNEW something was up.
You need to make that $1,300 an hour.
Which doesn’t include associate attorneys working on the case, plus paralegals, secretaries and the receptionist, who are billing the client(s) by hour. All of which, makes the actual billing rate significantly higher than the $1,300 per hour.
. All of which, makes the actual billing rate significantly higher than the $1,300 per hour.
Which all prudent people would pay for, knowing that he has never interacted with Classified Documents outside of official Govt offices. Biden paid them because…uum, shut up, he forgot why he paid them.
America is getting to feel more like a banana republic every day. Americans apparently have neither brains nor scruples, and their voting choices reflect the moral decay in this country.
How about not prosecuting either man for past actions regarding classified documents combined with new laws making the circumstances for future prosecutions unambiguous?
Miller, the laws are not ambiguous. It’s the corrupt DoJ becoming the secret police for the Democrat Party. The Russia hoax exposed them, but its been going on since Obama took office, if not before.
Trump is NOTHING but a PRA dispute. Happens with every President. Negotiation between the President and the NA of what is, or is not a Presidential Record. In the past, gentleman reached a compromise, and no one was the wiser.
President Trump went through the negotiation process, and sent the agreed to boxes
Garland decided the agreement was not good enough and issued a search warrant, rather than take the dispute to a judge to adjudicate.
Dear Prof Turley,
Surreal. .. and I’m confident you’re just scratching the surface.
I don’t think the country, nor the world, will tolerate another Trump v Biden redux. .. it doesn’t matter how you count the votes if only Trump or Biden can win.
Snowden for President 2024 ‘It’s Against The Law To Classify A Crime’
– Jurisdiction. While any U.S. court of law should be able to adjudicate president Trump’s rampant ‘poosy grabbing’ and other uncouth high crimes and misdemeanors, I believe The International Criminal Court in The Hague prosecutes those accused of war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide.
“There is now a distinct possibility we will have not just two leading candidates campaigning for the presidency with their own respective special counsels in tow, but two candidates who could be indicted or close to indictment at the time of the election. That would present some novel political and constitutional questions.”
They’re not gonna indict anybody. It’s the “High Ho Hillary Rule” at work where they were both “extremely careless” but not “grossly negligent” – the latter of which is the standard that would trigger criminal liability. That’s not a legal distinction (they’re the same legally); rather, it’s a political one coined by the worst FBI Director in our history,Jim Comey, and that’s saying something. No judge would want these cases and most would punt by saying let the voters decide. Political Question, ya know. Don’t expect your leaders to lead, your judges to judge or your prosecutors to prosecute when the politics of the day dictate against it. That’s the hallmark of a civilization in decline.
I’m afraid that raises more questions than answers.
Q. Who’s in charge around here?
A. The High Ho Hillary rule.
Could you imagine presidential debates from a federal prison?
Turley should write an article on arguably America’s greatest scandal of the 21st Century: “Covert Employment Tampering” by our national security agencies.
Although it was most publicly used against Democrats, following the January 6 Insurrection it’s highly likely Trump supporters will now be on the receiving end of these federal felonies, perpetrated by federal officials under Title 18 US Code 245, 42 US Code 1983 and the federal torture statute.
The circumstantial evidence alone should be of great interest to federal judges to investigate. Since 9/11, the government’s own records reveal there are over 1 million persons blacklisted and searched using “terrorism-authorities” but less than 1/10 of 1% have resulted in “terrorism-convictions”. Essentially a 99% failure rate. There is also strong circumstantial evidence that the 9/11 blacklists were partly composed of blacklists from as far back as the 1980’s – nothing to do with 9/11. Local governments simply uploaded suspicious persons to grab more federal tax dollars from the DOJ’s Preemption & Prevention Grants.
The federal government also has no process to be removed from these blacklists. Computer databases last forever. Without a process to correct mistakes we literally have a system to create “dossiers” on anyone or everyone.
How this would likely harm and destroy Trump supporters: if you were a farmer or truck driver that supported the Tea Party or Trump and then purchased fertilizer or diesel fuel or a legal gun – those tripwires send alerts to likely perform illegal warrantless searches in violation of 4th Amendment law.
Voters should call or write their members of Congress and tell them to outlaw and enforce “Cointelpro style Employment Tampering”. Cointelpro tactics were used by J Edgar Hoover FBI Director and one of the worst villains in American history.
The American public will not stand for this nonsense and will elect any other candidate that throws her or his hat in the ring mjust to free of Trump and Biden. Their lies (in Trump’s case his reusal to tell us why he held on to documents after telling the Justice Department he had returned them all) have disqualified them. Just as the Supreme Court wisely kept its nose out of the 2020 election on the principle that the Constitution requires the people, not the courts, to choose the POTUS, this time around two unelected political appointees in the current role of special counsel should not be in charge of our selection for POTUS. Enough already, throw both of these candidates under the bus and for good measure run them over!
JJC: Never underestimate the power of tribalism in politics.
Professor Turley, it seems to me that Hillary Clinton’s mishandling of classified documents was way worse than the two presidents. She put her classified docs online and broke the rules by using a private email account. The president at the time knew about her violation of the rules and did nothing. Our FBI said that it was not a big enough violation to warrant legal action so the Trump/Biden violations seem so minor in comparison. Why is there even a conversation about any of this with Hillary as the glaring precedent?
She put her classified docs online and broke the rules by using a private email account.
That makes it sound like ignoring a letter from the Boss.
Clinton’s wife, broke the law. The storage of classified documents is a matter of law. Classified document must be stored according to law. The law states they can only be on specific computers approved by the agencies involved. Clintons private e mail server was not approved by the State Dept. Any weaseling after tha, t is nothing but chaff.
We have to understand, Clinton’s wife did not just use a private e mail to conduct T/S communications. When she was nominated for SS, she hired someone to set up a private, stand alone E, mail server on her personal property. Any normal person could have set up their own e mail, She already had Clintion Global Initiative, email servers, but that wouldn’t work
The motivation for this is clear. A warrant for a search of her emails would have to be served on her personally. Not some Tech company.
The notion she just use a private e mail is laughable deflection.
Turley claims that Biden faces possible indictment for ‘gross mishandling’ of classified documents. That charge would be very difficult to prove because it would require prosecutors to show intent. The documents were found in one place in his home and office. They were not scattered about as it was in Trump’s case. Trump you can prove intent to obstruct with the trove of evidence in legal filings and Trump’s public claims.
As for security Biden’s home is his private home. There’s no constant traffic of people going in and out as it is at MAL. Biden has a security clearance Trump does not. Neither does Trump’s lawyers or his staff at MAL. So who handled the documents and who had access to them while they were “locked” in a room or a pool house? There are those who claim Trump’s home still has an SCIF. That can no longer be true because Biden barred Trump from getting national security briefings, MAL’s SCIF has been inactive since he left office. Trump has no reason to have classified documents in his home. His clearance has been revoked by Biden due to the fact that he cannot be trusted with government secrets. Trump refused to hand back presidential records according to the law. And holding back those documents is considered theft. It should be a no brainer for Turley to see who stands a bigger chance of being indicted. Turley just doesn’t want to upset his loyal readers with the simple truth.
Svelaz – by definition, gross negligence, which seems obvious, does not require a showing of intent. As to co-operation, that will be shown when Biden makes a full accounting of all the documents he has taken, along with an itinerary of their movements for the past six years.
Gross negligence requires proving intent. Gross negligence is intentional negligence by definition. Biden is already showing cooperation. He’s been doing it from the very start. His lawyers have been voluntarily reporting the documents and handing them over to the DOJ. Trump has done the opposite by obstructing and being deceitful with the DOJ. That is why a search warrant was issued when they found out Trump’s lawyers lied about turning over everything.
Gross negligence requires proving intent. Gross negligence is intentional negligence by definition.
Svelaz, provide the proof, or shut up. Repeating something does not make it so.
“Falling between intent to do wrongful harm and ordinary negligence, gross negligence is defined as willful, wanton, and reckless conduct affecting the life or property or another.”
Prosecutors will have to prove in court that Biden’s actions were willful, wanton, and reckless conduct in the most extreme sense. It requires evidence that his state of mind at the time was willful. That is a very hard thing to prove, especially when the documents in question may have been forgotten for almost 10 years.
Section 793 F was added specifically to remove the necessity to prove intent. Mishandling or failing to report mishandling is the offense.
In section (f) prosecutors still have to prove gross negligence occurred. Gross negligence requires that they prove it was willful and posed a grave danger that the information would be exposed. They have to prove Biden’’s state of mind at the time it occurred and that will be very difficult if not impossible.
Gross negligence does not require intent. It requires an extreme breach of a duty of care, beyond mere ordinary negligence.
That classified documents ended up in various Biden locations indicates that they were earlier in his possession in his capacity as VP or Senator. In that capacity he had a duty of care to safeguard those documents. He clearly failed to meet that duty of care when he allowed them to be removed and strewn about different insecure locations. Whether that breach was mere negligence or gross negligence is a judgment call that could vary depending on the facts that emerge. But it does not require proof of an intention on his part to remove the documents or arguably even awareness by him that they were being removed.
Comey originally had written that Clinton was grossly negligent in having classified material on her server. When someone pointed out that this would not sound good given the applicable legal standard of 18 USC 763(f) he changed the language to extremely careless. But the meaning is the same.
“Gross negligence does not require intent. It requires an extreme breach of a duty of care, beyond mere ordinary negligence.”
It requires that there’s a willful knowledge about the actions. Biden’s actions can easily be described as simple negligence instead of gross negligence. Gross negligence requires an extreme breach of duty. For there to be an extreme breach there would have to be proof that the classified documents were disseminated and be known to have been compromised by an adversary or published. Nobody knew those documents were missing. For all we know they remained in a box in the garage or office for years before they were found. There’s also the issue of the value of the information in the documents. Is the information no longer sensitive or relevant to current events? Those factors would weigh heavily in any consideration about what charges to bring.
Trump’s documents were more recent and the information clearly still had a lot of value, especially the TC/SCI documents. They moved very quickly to secure those documents meaning they were extremely valuable intelligence wise. THAT would be considered evidence of gross negligence compared to Biden’s case.
You are making stuff up. There is no need for any harm to have been caused for there to have been gross negligence in the handling of the documents. And 763(f) does not require proof of harm but only proof that revelation of the documents could damage the national defence.
“And 763(f) does not require proof of harm but only proof that revelation of the documents could damage the national defence.”
THAT is the harm. Damage to national defense IS the harm that is required to be proved in order to use the gross negligence charge.
Gross negligence still requires proof that the mishandling was willful. That is very hard to prove in court.
“1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed,”
To permit it to occur requires a prosecutor to show that the negligence was willful. Just being forgetful or a bit careless is not gross negligence. Proving gross negligence is a very high bar.
That’s all the troll is left with Daniel. Just repeat the same unsubstantiated statements.
Its nothing but a masturbatory fantasy, because none of this get in front of judge.
Does the ‘gross’ in gross negligence have anything at all to do with intent? Does it not refer to the seriousness of the ramifications/consequences of the neglect?
If I failed to take the trash to the curb… I was negligent.
If I allowed my auto insurance to lapse… that’s negligence.
If I haven’t made a mortgage payment in ten months… that’s negligence.
If I was careless with a document marked TS or higher… ???
As I understand it anyone qualifying for the simplest of clearance levels is going to have the ‘consequence’ issue hammered home in no uncertain terms.
Another example of poorly written legislation I suppose.
Prof Turley suggests this hinges upon whether Biden ‘took’ the documents in the first instance or ‘moved’ the documents over the ensuing years.
*of course, if Biden has no memory at all .. .well, as they say, you can’t get blood from a turnip.
The gravamen or essence of the crime here is having constructive or direct possession of classified material that is not secured in a proper container such as a SCIF. The notion of the offender cooperating with the authorities or trying to mislead them is relevant in terms of penalty but not for conviction. Both are apparently guilty of similar crimes. Garland most likely will be forced to throw two penalty flags, off-setting each other. The public will decide whether either becomes POTUS or whether we simply move on from this silliness and select someone else.
Edwardmahl, you are correct. Gross negligence does not require intent. It might be argued that it requires awareness of the risk involved, but that is different from intent.
There may be more going on here than just sloppy handling of these documents. Miranda Devine in today’s NYP refers to a 22-point email on the laptop that Hunter sent to Devon Archer in April 2014 about the Russia/Ukraine situation and its possible consequences, including for Burisma. She says there is nothing else comparable to it from Hunter on the laptop and speculates that it may have been based on classified documents. Hunter tells Devon to get a burner phone so they can speak the next day.
Daniel, I saw that column and the same thing jumped out at me. The language used by Hunter is obviously classified information and it helps to explain the reason Joe was busy taking the documents home with him. Hunter was using classified information to assist Burisma is strategizing which would explain his $83,000 a month “salary”.
If you want to know about the Bidens listen to Miranda Devine and read Peter Schweizer, these two have the details that the MSM will never look into. There are no WAPO Woodward and Bernsteins working today. More like the NY Time’s Walter Duranty.
Yes, Devine is excellent, and I’ve also read Schweizer.
Woodward and Bernstein of course were guided by Deep Throat Mark Felt, then Deputy Director of the FBI. In that sense they were carrying out the agenda of a deep state official.
hullbobby.. right on re: Peter Schweizer! he did the research and in his documentary on You Tube ‘Riding the Dragon’ lays out the Hunter web of deceit.. Obviously Biden used his own (uncleared) lawyers to keep Hunter safe re: all the Classified Docs at the Del. home where Hunter llived.. we shall never know the true extent of those Docs…
Svelaz: Everything you stated is a lie. Do you even realize how clownish you sound?
Prove me wrong GioCon.
“Prove me wrong GioCon.”
It is a waste of time for anyone to do so with Svelaz. He will lie and say,”“Again, you provided no documentation at all. “
Svelaz has to learn to live with his prior comments. He can’t because what is reproduced below is the rule rather than the exception when dealing with him.
Svelaz writes: “Again, you provided no documentation at all. You still haven’t. You “don’t feel obligated” because you never provided them in the first place and you can’t find it. You’re just covering for your BS claim.”
Here are a couple of locations where I mentioned the address of the FDA report. This proves you don’t know what you are talking about.
In the first one, I copied your statement, which is what is being argued about and is completely wrong,
You said: “All the current vaccines have been granted full approval. ”
Below is one of the many FDA postings I made. I believe others have posted FDA sites as well
In the second of the posts, I showed one of the reasons Pfizer might like this legal distinction.
I posted other things from the FDA with their addresses, and much of what I said was pure quotes from the FDA.
This proves you to be what everyone knows you to be. You were wrong again, and it isn’t just about Covid. You have been proven wrong repeatedly on a multiplicity of subjects where proof has been provided. You deny the truth and the proof provided even when it is on the same official papers you have posted.
S. Meyer, it’s funny you keep that broken record going. You didn’t prove anything in that conversation. There’s way more to it than what you post meaning you leave about a LOT. The only reason why you keep bringing it up is because you’re still butt hurt over how bad it was for you.
Svelaz, you lost me when you said that secret documents were strewn about Trumps residence. We know that the photo of the documents was staged by the FBI. what is closer to strewn about. Documents in a residence with every security measure known to mankind or a garage next to a corvette that Hunter Biden drove. Have you noticed that no security measures for the garage have been mentioned. As usual your bias drips from your pen.
Tit, you lost it when you lied that Svelaz “said that secret documents were strewn about Trumps residence”
Lying is one of your favorite ways of trolling.
“a residence with every security measure known to mankind”
It doesn’t even have a SCIF, much less “every security measure known to mankind”
“As usual your bias drips from your pen,” he says, looking in the mirror.
This is Svelaz’s quote: “They were not scattered about as it was in Trump’s case.” I’d say that is the same as “strewn around”
ATS, you keep lying and using deceptive statements. It’s time for you to be awarded the liar of the month.
My mistake. I searched on “strewn,” as TiT said “strewn” more than once. I did not search on “scattered.” Thanks for pointing it out. I’ll retract my statement about TiT lied in this case.
Thank you ATS. It seems you are starting to learn that honesty counts. Let us see how you progress.
Tit, I wasn’t referring to the FBI evidence photo. I was referring to the haphazard nature of where he kept and intermingled classified documents. He had more than 300 and a lot of them were in various places in his office where they were found. Some were found in a safe, others in an unlocked drawer among many White House “Trophy” mementos.
“Documents in a residence with every security measure known to mankind or a garage next to a corvette that Hunter Biden drove. Have you noticed that no security measures for the garage have been mentioned.”
Security at Mar a Lago did not meet the requirements for TS/SCI level storage. The secret service being present did not prevent unauthorized individuals from looking in the storage rooms or moving documents. His lawyers and staff did not have clearance to handle or even move the documents. Trump’s security clearance was no longer active when Biden barred Trump from getting national security briefings. Mar a Lago has too many people going in and out vs. Biden’s home. There’s no evidence that Hunter Biden had access to those documents or that he viewed them.
” relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity”
MAL is divided up into different “homes” (areas- walled off). No one goes into the private areas without permission, nor are they able to get to them. Biden’s home had visitors and once inside everything is accessible.
Those “walled off areas” do not mean they were secure from people moving the documents or accessing them. Trump had those documents moved more than once and as evidenced by documents found in his office there is NO record of who moved them and if they looked at them. Security cameras do not prevent people who are not cleared to go into to this storage rooms and there’s no log or chain of custody on who had keys to the locks, etc.
Trump could have shown the documents to anyone without ever knowing who looked at them. That is after being barred from getting national security briefings which means Biden revoked Trump’s security clearance.
Biden’s home is a much smaller compound and a lot easier to keep track of who is in there. That does not mean they looked or knew that classified documents were in the residence. Trump who loves to brag and shoot his mouth off posed a much higher risk than Biden and that was a more serious concern than Biden’s
“Trump could have shown the documents to anyone without ever knowing who looked at them. “
Try making sense.
“Biden’s home is a much smaller compound and a lot easier to keep track of who is in there.”
Apparently not based on reports. Do you have any common sense? Once someone entered the front door of the Biden mansion, what prevented them from going elsewhere? Didn’t Hunter say it was his house?
“That is after being barred from getting national security briefings which means Biden revoked Trump’s security clearance.”
Though told many times that the above didn’t have anything to do with the old papers you keep saying the same thing.
The email posted many times showing you do that all the time. You repeat things proven wrong just like you kept telling Meyer that he didn’t produce the FDA information.
Security at Mar a Lago did not meet the requirements for TS/SCI level storage.
Because there are no classified documents at MaL
“Security at Mar a Lago did not meet the requirements for TS/SCI level storage.
Because there are no classified documents at MaL”
The FBI and court documents disagree with you.
Ha! You put so much credence into ‘The FBI’ and ‘Court Documents’.
I’ve got some ocean-front property you might be interested in.
I was referring to the haphazard nature of where he kept and intermingled classified documents.
You have no idea about how documents were handled at MaL. This is the same FBI that altered an email to change the meaning from true to false.
The FBI made a statement or two, provided some photos of unknown origin. This is from an agency that does not comment on ongoing investigations. If your bullshiff detector does not go off, nothing I can do will make you understand.
For Svelaz to be sticking to this absurd line makes him either a paid partisan hack or an FBI embed. Nobody could be as obtuse, stubborn or unwilling to see the truth of Biden’s corruption without there being (paid) cause.
Hullbobby, nobody has refuted my points. You’’re welcome to to so with credible evidence or facts. Prove your case.
..someone told me just to scroll past Svelaz and the other Trolls (Anonymous.. the one from the darkside, Gigi. et al..) we’ll all be better off for it.. these Trolls aim to clutter the forum with BS so the volume of gobbledeegook turns new readers off and away…
Svelaz, it proved you to be a liar, a joke, and a waste of time. That was one of many times this happened. I kept this document so I wouldn’t have to waste so much time with a response.
You can pretend it didn’t happen but anyone can go to the links themselves and read the supporting links throughout the thread. I am simply making things easier for others.
S. Meyer, you’re known for projecting your lying and trolling on others. You’re far less credible than most.
I have quoted your lies. You have a chance to quote mine, but you can’t. I don’t lie. I might make a mistake which I will correct if notified, but you don’t seem able to show those either.
Saying another lied when faced with documented proof that you lied, only demonstrates how much you lie.
S. Meyer says, “I don’t lie.”
You just did by making that claim.
When your wife walked in on you sleeping with another woman, you said, “What woman? There is no woman here” as the woman proceeded to dress and leave.
That tactic of lying about what is in plain sight might work with a wife wanting to believe her husband, but it doesn’t work where people are not emotional and have access to your lies.
You are lying in plain sight and that is why so many call you a fool.
Svelaz, take note of how in a short period of time,
Daniel just said: “You are making stuff up.”
Or Iowan saying: “You keep making the same statements but never support them with facts.”
Independent Bob says: “Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.”
That is how you look to others and you have no defense to their arguments.
Seems to me that they both need to be prosecuted for pushing the kill shots. Along with everyone else involved.
Turely tries hard to play both sides of the coin, but he’s leaving out a lot in order to focus more on Biden. There is one clear distinction that separates Biden and Trump. One is being completely cooperative and voluntary with the DOJ. The other is being obstructive and combative. Trump has a lot of evidence against him in the obstruction charge scenarios. There’s still the problem of more missing documents from Trump since the DOJ has not search his other properties. Turley omits this while calling for the DOJ to search all of Biden’s properties.
Trump had far more classified documents in his possession and with the discovery of empty folders suggests there are more to be found. We don’t see any calls from Turley or Biden critics for the DOJ to conduct more thorough searches or even Trump volunteering to have the DOJ search his properties. The Biden administration welcomes the searches. Trump doesn’t. Trump still seems to be hiding more and that should be a concern. Trump has already shown that he can’t be trusted with classified information.
It’s pretty clear who has a better chance of being indicted. Trump. Biden has been cooperating and turning over documents without a problem. Trump has been obstructing, hiding, lying, and withholding classified documents which is a direct violation of the espionage act. Trump is not president. Biden still is. Trump is much more vulnerable to being indicted because he has no immunity and has more incriminating evidence against him than Biden. Turley minimizes that distinction by focusing more on Biden’s issue than Trump’s more serious problems.
Trump has a lot of evidence against him in the obstruction charge scenarios
The same lie the left pushed for the russia, Russia, RUSSIA, RUSSIA!!!!!
But ~2 years of Mueller produced zero obstruction. AG Barr, directed Mueller by letter, to provide recommendations or declination of criminal charges, along with is the required criminal elements and evidence of othe elements be submitted with the Special Counsel Report. That report was to be submitted redacted and ready for public release. Mueller ignored all those direct orders. Never provided a recommendation to charge obstruction, never provided evidence of the elements required to charge obstruction.
Trump has literally said the documents are his when they are clearly not. There is evidence already on record that he obstructed NARA and the DOJ from investigating if he had more than what he claimed. The raid proved he lied and intended to hide more classified documents he believed were his to keep. The Mueller investigation was severely restricted in what he could search for and Trump constantly ignored his subpoenas. In this case he was caught lying about turning over everything after NARA and the DOJ spent nearly 18 months giving Trump multiple opportunities to resolve the issue.
There is evidence already on record that he obstructed NARA and the DOJ from investigating if he had more than what he claimed.
The “evidence you claim, is nothing but an assertion of the DoJ. The very same DoJ that has repeatedly been caught lying.
This was an ongoing negotiation of the PRA.
Instead of getting the conflict in front of a judge, like has happened in the past, Garland issued a phony search warrant. This is a civil, not criminal dispute.
Maybe Biden should pardon himself, Hunter, his other family members and Trump. He is defiantly in a pickle with his tangled web to deceive us. That could clear the decks for new deceitfulness but honestness, is not ever likely.
After what happened in the mid term election, I think Joe Biden will get re-elected. Can’t see a Republican beating this guy. I’ve never seen a nation of people vote against their own self interest as I did last November.
Most likely scenario is that the public will finally see that these two charlatans both deserve to be in jail and will nominate neither in 2024.
Wiseoldlawyer (better than a Wideoldlawyer), it would be great to see them both get beaten for their respective nominations, but it will be tough to beat Trump because there wil be one Trump and 10 non-Trumps. DeSantis is the only hope and we don’t know if he will run.
As for Biden, he may opt out, but I can’t think of one Democrat that would be acceptable to me. Name one Democrat on the national level who has been critical of the border situation…you can’t. Inflation will come down, crime policy will be readjusted, the Russia-Ukraine war will end, but we will have about 10-15 million illegals living here forever. 10-15 miilion people whose first act here was a felony, who speak no English, who have no skills and who will not be able to assimilate. This is how China got Joe Biden to weaken the country and the left has paralyzed the Democrats into acquiescing to the inane open border policy.
My only hope is that recently Mayor Adams of NY and even CA governor Newsom have read the tealeaves and have been critical of the border situation. They aren’t national figures (yet) but it bodes well that maybe Biden having a 17% favorable rating on the border is seeping through to the wannabe president class.
The main reason Trump got elected in 2016 was due to his border policy, NOBODY likes the open border and yet the Democrats are jamming this down our throats. Ask your friends, your neighbors, your co-workers, NOBODY likes the open border and yet here we are?????