Pardon or Prosecute? The 2024 Election and the “Get Out of Jail Free” Vote

Below is my column in the Hill on how the two criminal investigations over classified documents could create an unprecedented constitutional conflict in 2024. We are likely to have two candidates with their own respective special counsels. One or both could be indicted. Either way, the election could protect the winner practically from prosecution either due to a self-pardon or an internal Justice Department rule. A vote for Biden or Trump could therefore literally prove to be a “get out of jail free” card.

Here is the column:

President Biden has declared that the criminal investigation into his possession of classified material ultimately will fizzle out because “there is no ‘there’ there.” To the contrary, there obviously is a great deal “there,” enough that a special counsel was appointed to investigate a classified documents trail from a D.C. office closet to Biden’s Delaware garage.

Although the president wants Americans to look down the road past images of classified documents next to his vintage Corvette, we may be heading into one of the most bizarre, unsettling moments in our constitutional history.

There is now a distinct possibility we will have not just two leading candidates campaigning for the presidency with their own respective special counsels in tow, but two candidates who could be indicted or close to indictment at the time of the election. That would present some novel political and constitutional questions.

A great deal already has been written about comparisons of the two cases and the obvious differences. The Justice Department’s Trump investigation includes not only accusations of mishandling classified material but also of false statements and obstruction; far more documents are involved, too. Yet enough similarities exist that Justice could weigh charges in both cases, even if only misdemeanors.

Moreover, the Biden allegations are serious in their own way. The documents in Donald Trump’s possession at Mar-a-Lago were largely housed in a locked storage room with security added at the FBI’s request; there was ’round-the-clock Secret Service protection and camera surveillance. That is not ideal — but it is better than a dozen documents scattered around a closet, garage and library in different states.

There is no question of gross mishandling in Biden’s case. There is only the question of who was responsible. If the evidence shows that Joe Biden used any of these clearly marked documents to write his book or other projects, his insistence on “inadvertent” possession will take on a more sinister meaning as an effort to deceive the public and the FBI.

Both of these investigations could easily take a year or more. The average time of a special counsel investigation of a president is over 900 days. These two investigations should take less than the average — but they are starting in 2023, with a presidential election in 2024. Trump has already announced, and Biden is expected to do so soon.

The one indictment scenario — One possible scenario that many Democrats are hoping for is that Biden is spared and Trump indicted. This option could be the most explosive with many in the country seeing a double standard.

The no indictment scenario — If the investigations of both Trump and Biden extend to August 2024, the department could follow its policy of not taking actions that might affect an election. Indicting a candidate clearly falls into that category.

The double indictment scenario — The Justice Department could also make fast work of both cases and indict both men. This option however could require a change in Justice Department policy.

This is where it gets wicked.

There has long been a debate over whether a sitting president can be indicted. While some of us believe there is no constitutional barrier to indicting a sitting president, the Justice Department has maintained that such an indictment is improper. Unless the Justice Department changed its view, it could indict Trump but might decline or delay indicting Biden. Moreover, given its policy, Justice could indicate it was holding final action on an indictment of Biden until after the election. A vote for Biden might then be seen as a way to effectively block any indictment.

Under any scenario (absent a decision to forego any charges), both candidates would face indictments or the possibility of indictment after the election. The vote literally could come down to who you want to see pardoned and who you would like to see jailed.

Even if the Justice Department elects not to indict Biden due to a lack of evidence, as opposed to a constitutional bar, it still would mean that Trump’s election could be used to negate any indictment over Mar-a-Lago. Many voters likely would view that as unequal treatment, and a self-pardon prospect could become a rallying point for many voters.

The right of a president to self-pardon is another subject of long-standing debate. Just as I believe a sitting president can be indicted, I also believe a president can pardon himself. Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution states the pardon power allows a president to “grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.” There is no language limiting who can be pardoned other than that it can only extend to federal crimes. Others disagree. However, it could prove the ultimate factor for the single-issue voter: Who do you want pardoned or prosecuted?

A couple of other potential wrinkles exist.

Trump’s election could result in a pardon, even a prospective pardon for federal crimes. However, he cannot pardon himself for state crimes. For example, Georgia’s Fulton County district attorney, Fani Willis, is investigating Trump over the 2020 election; the case has some major evidentiary and legal issues to overcome in any trial — but Trump could well be indicted.

If elected, Trump could clear the boards of any and all federal crimes, but he would face a trial in Georgia during his second term.

Biden could have his own pardon surprise. If his son, Hunter, is eventually indicted, Biden could follow the lead of President Clinton, who pardoned his own half-brother. It would be another abuse of the pardon power for personal benefit. Clinton, however, waited until the final days of his second term to act; if Biden was looking for a reason not to run, he might pardon his son and then withdraw from a reelection bid.

This may all sound like a constitutional version of the popular movie, “Everything Everywhere All at Once,” in which one finds oneself in some bizarre parallel universe.

In the movie, protagonist Alpha Waymond explains that “every rejection, every disappointment has led you here to this moment” — and that may be the case with the American electorate. Our duopoly of power has led us to a series of compromises that have brought us to this moment, and we may have to decide which of two candidates we most want to pardoned or prosecuted.

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can find his updates online @JonathanTurley.

368 thoughts on “Pardon or Prosecute? The 2024 Election and the “Get Out of Jail Free” Vote”

  1. Turley wrote: “we may have to decide which of two candidates we most want to pardoned or prosecuted.”

    Well that will certainly motivate the sheeple to vote.
    My personal belief has been that Biden’s classified revelations were designed as a get-out-of-jail-free card for Trump.
    But I can see how leaving it up to the voters to decide is a much better continuation of this kayfab wrestling match that has been going on since 2016.
    Turley should get some copyright residuals for coming up with the script if it is used.

    1. @jinn,
      Biden stole the docs before Trump entered office.
      Trump’s docs were known to National Archives.

      Need more information about the docs.
      And then lets see how they correspond to Hunter’s Biz.

      There’s more.
      Like Trump’s locked rooms were inside MAL. Secured and policed.
      Hunter had access to Joe’s garage, along w inviting Chinese nationals with ties to government spent time at the house while Hunter was doing drugs.

      So now you have the risk that the docs were copied by them.
      While that’s speculation on my part… its got a probability higher than 0 and probably not negligible.


      1. Ian Michael Gumby wrote something (which I care little to read or comprehend)

        Thank you for trying to get me sucked into and absorbed by the narrative as you apparently already have been.
        I’m sorry to inform you, but I never liked soap operas
        this soap opera is not well written and has a plot that doesn’t even make a lot of sense.

        As you say the plot goes that Biden stole documents many many years ago
        and now we suddenly hear about those documents found next to old Joe’s corvette.
        That story is about as ridiculous as the magic bullet found in the JFK assassination case.
        But at least back in 1963 at least a few said -‘ hey this plot doesn’t hold water.’
        Today people will believe any story no matter how badly written.

  2. Oh, my! Thank you sooooooooooo much!

    I’ll treasure your citation forever.

    You just had the legislative branch usurp the power of the separate and equal executive branch.

    You just gave an unknown “regulatory” entity the power of the President of the United States.

    The president needs no other authority than the Constitution to preside over the executive branch.

    What in the —- are you talking about, thinking about?

    6 CFR § 7.20 – Classification and declassification authority – IS ENTIRELY ILLICIT, ILLEGITIMATE AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

    Roe vs. Wade was constitutional, until it wasn’t – problem is it never was in the Constitution – it’s a matter of State legislation.

    Roberts correctly found the ACA unconstitutional but reversed himself at the last minute out of personal, political and ideological beliefs.

    Please cite for me the Constitution, wherein secession is denied or precluded.

    Go all the way back and cite the Constitution for Lincoln’s denial of fully constitution secession – correct Lincoln’s entire “Reign of Terror” as the Supreme Court corrected America on Abortion – extrapolate America forward sans “Crazy Abe’s” entire “Reign of Terror and we have the constitutional America of its Founders.

    The singular American failure has been and is the Supreme Court.

  3. Let’s have an ice bucket challenge: How long will it be before Gigi, Anonymous or Svelaz post a comment without using the magic word Trump?

    Hey Anonymous and Svelaz, how does it feel to be aligned with Gigi? That is your group…and it’s certainly something else.

      1. LOL, if the discussion is about Biden and Hunters access to classified documents. What do you do? Bring up Trump.

  4. Fiat Laws, and money, are the foundation of the United States of America.
    FIAT “Let it be done”, from ‘fiery’ to be made, come into being.
    In today’s parlance it is what I say it is, that ‘IS’ if you can define ‘IS’.

  5. How does a senator or Vice President make enough money on his salary to have “homes” and nice homes at that in the metro areas of the East Coast? Have significant investment portfolios?

    Isn’t it interesting how politicians beat the investing odds? Also interesting, in this age where so few read books, that they make so much on their book deals. The really good one is delayed gratification. They make a “normal” salary while in office but once they are out, (wink wink) the consultancy offers pour in, especially those of foreign nations who are seeking inside information. They want the good contacts. Once the revolving door starts turning, then suddenly, just like that, their wealth explodes. Oh, don’t forget sending your children into some backwater country that is off the radar to make all sorts of good deals for their family.

    These folks should be ashamed of themselves, better yet punished. Much of this activity would land the rank and file citizen in prison. They are not. Somewhere along the way, they made they made the Faustian bargain and their conscience’s are seared.

    We are in a race to the bottom.

    1. Influence peddling and money laundering.

      “Career” politicians focus on their careers.

      “Career” politicians have grown the sick, corrupt, communist government into a colossal, sick, corrupt, communist abomination.

      Presidents et al. were supposed to succeed in the private sector, “serve” a limited term in a small government, and return to the private sector.

      Obama never had a job but he is a filthy rich retired “community organizer”; how’d that happen?

      It was the duty of the Supreme Court to stop the onset of communism in 1860 – secession was fully constitutional (slavery must have been terminated by other, constitutional means).

      It was the duty of Congress to impeach corrupt judges and justices.

      There has been no fundamental law enforcement since 1860.

  6. I suspect the feebs need to look in Peking if they really want to find most of the documents The Biden Gang took.

  7. Excellent article but does any of this really matter anymore? Regardless of who the candidates are or will be, the Democrat Party has any “election” they want to win well in hand. We are now VZ and every Democrat is Maduro. Universally despised but always a winner.

    1. Wait! Someone noticed?

      And elected democrats shred the Constitution and force republicans to morph into liberals (CA one-party communist dictatorship – reparations, $5M down, $95K annually thereafter).

      “If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.”

      Americans didn’t stand for the literal clear meaning and intent of the Constitution.

      Americans didn’t stand for the restricted vote (by State legislatures per Constitution) – every dependent parasite, foreign and domestic, in the world votes on America’s present and future.

      Americans didn’t stand for fully constitutional secession (slavery must have been terminated by other, constitutional means) which led to Lincoln’s “Reign of Terror,” extant to this day.

      Americans couldn’t “keep” their republic.

      They were eaten alive by communists.

      It was the duty of the Supreme Court to stop the onset of communism in 1860 – secession was fully constitutional (slavery must have been terminated by other, constitutional means).

      It was the duty of Congress to impeach corrupt judges and justices (corrupt Roberts read the Constitution, found the ACA unconstitutional, then last-minute switched his vote based on emotion, politics and ideology.

      There has been no fundamental law enforcement since 1860.

  8. Formet FBI agent who led investigation into Trump rusdia probe has beeb arrested for ties with Russian oligark. As FDR once said, it takes a thief to catch a thief. Only nothing stuck to Trump.

    1. The former FBI agent, Charles McGonigal, did not “lead investigation into Trump rusdia probe.”

      1. From CNBC headline:

        Former top FBI counterintelligence agent Charles McGonigal charged with violating Russia sanctions.

        It reminds me of how the Democrats tried to hide Russian spies in the US sending our secrets to them toward the end of WW2 and throughout the cold war. The left are turncoats.

  9. OT

    Rumor has it that Sotomayor was the leaker.

    The textual character of the leak has her “signature.”

    She has radical, extremist, anti-American tendencies and derides the court as “conservative,” whereas the American Founders and Framers were, and their Constitution is, conservative.

    “The first Hispanic Justice on the Supreme Court”

    – Smithsonian

    Note: She is not American, she is Hispanic.

    No legitimate investigation of the Roe leak has been conducted.

    The singular American failure has been and continues to be the Supreme Court.

    The Supreme Court began the incremental implementation of the principles of communism in America, by Karl Marx through Abraham Lincoln, when it initially failed to find no denial of secession in the Constitution and when it failed to find secession fully constitutional, the very secession which the Founders themselves carried out and accomplished against Britain.


    The Supreme Court is thoroughly contaminated, corrupt and completely off the U.S. Constitution.

    Rumor has it that Roberts was going to correctly find Obamacare unconstitutional but described it as a “tax” for political purposes at the last minute to the chagrin of many Justices.

    Roberts is irredeemably political, anti-American and distinctly not dispassionate and impartial.

    The Founders are rolling over in their graves at the course of the country and the vile corruption of the judicial branch and the putrefied Supreme Court.

    “…courts…must…declare all acts contrary to the manifest tenor of the Constitution void.”

    “…men…do…what their powers do not authorize, [and] what they forbid.”

    “[A] limited Constitution … can be preserved in practice no other way than through the medium of courts of justice, whose duty it must be to declare all acts contrary to the manifest tenor of the Constitution void. Without this, all the reservations of particular rights or privileges would amount to nothing … To deny this would be to affirm … that men acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid.”

    – Alexander Hamilton

  10. I think what could happen is they indict Trump rather quickly, by early Spring of 2023 so he can be tried before 2024. Then the Democrats force Biden to resign and KH pardons Biden. The Vice Presidency is left vacant until Jan 20 2025 because nobody nominated by KH will get a House majority. The 2024 contest is a 4 way race between Trump, Liz Cheney, Kamala Harris, and Joe Manchin, all win at least a few states, and ends up going to the House for resolution.

    1. Andrew P – I have been game-playing this situation in my mind. I’m sure Democrats are strategizing the best route out this mess for them, and the DOJ is likely to follow their wishes. Biden’s liability is so clear that it is possible they will let him plead to a misdemeanor, without any punishment to him or his family, IF he agrees to immediately depart his office. Then they could turn to Trump and say: “Look, we let Biden off the hook on the condition that he quit his office. We have the same offer for you and your family and associates if you agree to quit your run for this office. If this gambit happens, the DOJ will look like they are even-handed, while accomplishing two Demo goals: getting rid of Biden; and putting immense pressure on Trump to quit the race. The Never-Trumpers will squeal: Trump won’t help the country put this ugly mess behind us.

      1. Did the Biden documents suddenly appear, or were they forced out by those in the deep state? Is this a two-for? Get rid of Biden and Trump at the same time?

        I am not saying this is what happened. It is one of the possibilities. If it was a random disclosure by accident, then don’t be surprised if the deep state doesn’t make the best of it.

        1. Several left wing nut media outlets had several very high profile Democrats expressing deep concenr about Biden’s conduct.

          Svelaz and Gigi and ATS may hang on past the bitter end, but the rats are fleeing the sinking ship.

          The Biden Document scandal grows worse by the day.

          The spin is failing.
          People are realinging that in so many ways What Biden did is OBVIOUSLY worse.

          The hypocracy and santimoniousness does not help.
          The difference in handling does not help.
          The coverup does not help.

          There is blood in the water and the sharks are circling.

          And it will be democrats eating one of their own.

          1. “There is blood in the water and the sharks are circling. And it will be democrats eating one of their own.”

            Louis XV1 starring Joe Biden
            Marie Antoinette

            “Long live the French Revolution style of blood letting.” __Anonymous Rex

    2. Cheney and/or Harris?

      My daddy promised me an electric bus???

      Ya know, that is precisely the condition of America today.

      Hysteria and incoherence.

      I think you’re on to something.

      But it damn sure is NOT what the Founders and Framers intended, wrote and established.



      You couldn’t.

  11. In other legal news in our crazy world, Alec Baldwin, charged with manslaughter, is back on social media with a questionable (sexualized) caption to a family photo involving his wife and son; Prince Andrew is trying to clear his name after Maxwell’s remarks about that photo; FBI agent who led Trump/Russia probe charged with ties to Russian oligarch in violation of U.S. sanctions; and illegal human smuggling continues apace not only at the Mexican border but with 400 Hatians found by the Coast Guard in a boat near the Bahamas. There’s more but that’s enough for now.

    1. Former FBI agent McGonigal, who was charged in connection with Russian sanctions violations and money laundering violations, is not the “FBI agent who led Trump/Russia probe.”

      Here’s his indictment:

      In other news:
      “Bigo” Barnett, “who sat at a desk in Pelosi’s suite on Jan. 6, was convicted of obstruction, civil disorder, and disorderly conduct in the Capitol w a dangerous weapon (a Hike N Strike walking stick/stun weapon combo)” (quoting reporter Kyle Cheney). Also convicted on theft of government property (an item from the desk in Pelosi’s office). He says he’ll appeal, though it’s not clear on what grounds. He complains that the DC jury wasn’t a jury of his peers … but chose to commit crimes in DC, so he gets a DC jury.

      Apparently the jurors have also reached a verdict in the second Oath Keepers seditious conspiracy trial, but I haven’t seen reporting yet on what the verdict is.

      1. All four Oath Keeper defendants in the second trial — Ed Vallejo, Roberto Minuta, Joseph Hackett and David Moerschel — have been found guilty of seditious conspiracy.

        1. You may be interested in learning the Gen Milley classified information surrounding Jan 6 that is exculpatory to Jan 6 defendents. This information shows the Government predicted violence from leftists groups like antifa. That evidence was not public and was intentionally hidden from defendants to use in their defense

          Here’s Gen. Milley’s candid statement about what he did:

          The document—I classified the document at the beginning of this process by telling my staff to gather up all the documents, freeze-frame everything, notes, everything and, you know, classify it. And we actually classified it at a pretty high level, and we put it on JWICS, the top secret stuff. It’s not that the substance is classified. It was[.] I wanted to make sure that this stuff was only going to go [to] people who appropriately needed to see it, like yourselves. We’ll take care of that. We can get this stuff properly processed and unclassified so that you can have it … for whatever you need to do.

          In short, Milley overclassified those records to keep them from leaking—to make sure that the Pentagon and those investigating Jan. 6 would control the story.

          1. You should learn to use quotation marks when you’re quoting.

            Some in the government may have predicted violence from the left, but it didn’t occur. I considered traveling to DC to counterprotest, but didn’t go specifically because Mayor Bowser asked protesters on the left to stay home.

            Any exculpatory evidence should be turned over to defendants, and this is another example of why the J6 Committee’s investigation was legit: they need to pass a law penalizing people who act contrary to Obama’s EO that “In no case shall information be classified in order to prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of national security.”

          1. None of us, except zealots, should be proud that ordinary Americans are convicted of trying to overthrow the government, and then sentenced to many years in prison, when their motive, in most cases, was to protest the way in which the politicial system has been rigged in various ways by the Democratic Party and their allies and underlings.

            1. Some “ordinary Americans” tried to prevent the peaceful transfer of power via Congress’s certification of the Electoral College vote, and no one should be proud of them. They broke the law. Some of them have even been convicted of seditious conspiracy.

              I know the difference between legal and illegal protests. I bet they do to. I constrain my own actions so that they’re within the bounds of the law when I protest. They chose not to.

              1. The transfer of power is anything but peaceful when democrats break the law near constantly and in many ways during our elections. The criminal transfer of power should never be peaceful. Claiming it wasn’t peaceful is also a sick democrat joke.

              2. They did not try to prevent a peaceful transfer. That is not true. If the J6s wanted to they might have been able to overwhelm the Capitol police. They wanted to use every legal option. The prosecution of the J6s is not comparable to what happened to other groups. The prosecution was and is tyranical.

                Look at how the left acted throughout the nation, at the Supreme Court, at Lafayette Park, etc. You can only close your eyes to those things if you are of a dictatorial mindset.

                The Capitol police murdered Ashli Babbitt. Byrd was then put at Andrews Airbase. Did you ever think of why?

                1. “They did not try to prevent a peaceful transfer.”

                  Even if they did – that duck the issue.

                  The entire reasoning of the left is circular.

                  Lets assume that on J5th it was found that 1M frudulent ballots were cast for Biden in the 6 swing states.

                  Does the fact that states have certified and courts have refused to intervene mean that Congress is obligated to bless the election ?

                  Of course not.

                  Or lets assume that Biden legitimately wins the election, and on J5 he murders Jill Biden on national TV.

                  Is Congress obligated to bless the election ?

                  Of course not.

                  The constitutional power of Congress to diverge from the results of the election is both indisputable, required and only to be rarely used.

                  Regardless that power exists, and it is thereofe perfectly legitimate for protestors to petition congress to use that power – even if it is a long shot.

                  Isn’t it the left that has constantly chanted “no justice, no peace”.

              3. Their sentences are disproportional. Of course those at the DOJ let rioters from the left riot and attack a Supreme Court Judge. That is the type of unequal justice we are seeing.

            2. when their motive, in most cases, was to protest the way in which the politicial system has been rigged in various ways ….

              Stealing the Speaker’s podium, sitting in the Speaker’s office with one’s feet on the desk, breaking, smashing, vandalizing, using destructive means to force entry into any building, never find a Federal bldg, are not examples of was to protest the way..

              Antifa /BLM use the same excuse for their reign of terrorism in 2020 through today, e.g. Atlanta ANTIFA terrorism last weekend.

              There is no sympathy for Americans who should be working full time jobs, supporting their families financially and through their example their loved ones, being meticulous with their health and mindful of their financial obligations, if they throw these to the wind and take a day off from their obligations to do what ANTIFA BLM has done. Two sides of the same coin.

              I have been protesting by showing those in my circle of influence how to behave like an adult. The Americans that participated in the assault of the US Capitol should face the full brunt of the criminal justice system, as should ANTIFA BLM.

              However our country is beyond repair since repairing it would Americans to look inwardly and fix their own brokenness and how they contribute to our metastatic society.

  12. More Turley slop that I didn’t bother to read word for word because I don’t need to. It’s obvious that today’s Fox assignment is a pathetic attempt to equate Biden’s cooperation in discovering and returning classified documents with Trump’s overtly criminal behavior in intentionally STEALING classified documents because the pig thought having them makes him look “cool”, his retusal to return them upon request, his partial cooperation with a subpoena, his lawyer filing a false affidavit by lying about returning all of them, forcing the NARA to obtain a search warrant, and then fundraising over his deliberate, criminal conduct. Turley still won’t address Trump and his lawyer getting hit with about a $1 million sanction for filing a frivolous lawsuit against Hillary Clinton for cheating Trump out of bragging rights for winning the popular vote–something that only happened in his sick mind. Another question I have is this: why didn’t the NARA “miss” the papers found at Biden’s home–could it be that they were formally classified but have since been declassified, because some of them date back to when he was a Senator?

    1. Gigi – You imply that “Biden’s cooperation in discovering and returning classified documents” absolves him of criminal liabillty. Not so, First, it is not true that he acted quickly or that he voluntarily returned all classified documents. More to the point, it is illogical to say that Biden “discovered” them. Legally, he was charged with knowing where they were for the entire six year period he controlled them. If you “know” where something is, you cannot “discover” it.

    2. Trump cooperated and let the fbi secure the documents. He was disputing the claims of the government in court, as is his right.

      This narrative is clownish even by progressives standards

          1. You are correct: the two situations are in NO way comparable. After intentionally stealing the papers, which he confessed made him look “cool”, Trump’s stolen documents were kept in a basement room secured with a padlock, a pool locker secured with a padlock, and lying around in his office, all at MAL, to which all sorts of people had access for parties, fundraisers, weddings, etc, plus dozens of employees, permanent (like cleaning people) and temporary (like florists who deliver flowers for weddings, bakers who deliver cakes and other delivery people, chefs, dressmakers, hairdressers, etc.). Anyone coming to MAL had potential access to the papers. Trump refused to return them upon request, forced a subpoena to which his lawyer filed a false affidavit swearing all were returned, and a search warrant over which Trump fundraised. Biden immediately and fully cooperated. There’s no evidence he was aware that he had the papers, but once he discovered them, he did all possible to get them returned. The two situations are in no way comparable.

        1. Wrong process for a free people with a judiciary. Perhaps you think we live in a dictatorship, though under Biden you might be correct.

    1. Clinton was the first black president.

      Obama was the first female president.

      Hillary wanted to be the first rake president.

      DeSantis wants to be the first latspanic or hispantin president.

  13. Even if Biden were to self pardon himself and pardon Hunter… that doesn’t solve his problems.
    He could still be impeached. The pardon removes the chance of criminal charges, but impeachment isn’t criminal but political. Impeach him, he can’t run in 2024.

    Or rather to be correct, House impeaches, Senate votes on guilt so it would mean that both impeached and found guilty in the Senate.

    They would have to charge him.
    He could still run unless he was found guilty prior to the election.
    But Trump could fail in the primary.

    The reality is that this clearly shows Joe and Hunter involved in illegal activities.
    The mishandling of classified information after Joe was VP or even when he was VP puts him in the crosshair under the Espionage Act.


  14. Please cite the Constitution for any authority of Congress over classification, declassification or archiving of “classified” materiel.

    “Classified” material is a product of the activity of the President and executive branch.

    The legislative branch has no constitutional authority over the executive branch and has no power to usurp the power of the executive branch.

    The branches of government are separate and equal, no act of the legislative branch has any force or weight over the executive branch.

    No legislation by Congress regarding classified material of the executive branch is constitutional.

    The judicial branch has the power to declare acts of the legislative and executive branches unconstitutional through Judicial Review.

    Donald Trump was the President and Commander-In-Chief and held sole authority over classified material.

    Joe Biden was a Senator and Vice President and held no authority over classified material.

    President Donald Trump held the sole power to classify, declassify and archive “classified” material of the executive branch.

    Joe Biden acted high criminally and statutorily criminally when he removed and retained classified material.

      1. Oh, my! Thank you sooooooooooo much!

        I’ll treasure your citation forever.

        You just had the legislative branch usurp the power of the separate and equal executive branch.

        You just gave an unknown “regulatory” entity the power of the President of the United States.

        The president needs no other authority than the Constitution to preside over the executive branch.

        What in the —- are you talking about, thinking about?

        6 CFR § 7.20 – Classification and declassification authority – IS ENTIRELY ILLICIT, ILLEGITIMATE AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

        Roe vs. Wade was constitutional, until it wasn’t – problem is it never was in the Constitution – it’s a matter of State legislation.

        Roberts correctly found the ACA unconstitutional but reversed himself at the last minute out of personal, political and ideological beliefs.

        Please cite for me the Constitution, wherein secession is denied or precluded.

        Go all the way back and cite the Constitution for Lincoln’s denial of fully constitution secession – correct Lincoln’s entire “Reign of Terror” as the Supreme Court corrected America on Abortion – extrapolate America forward sans “Crazy Abe’s” entire “Reign of Terror and we have the constitutional America of its Founders.

        The singular American failure has been and is the Supreme Court.

        1. George,
          Don’t get your panities in a bunch.

          All executive power flows from the president – including classification and declassification authority.
          Congress has the power to constrain the delegated powers of the president in agencies that Congress creates and funds.
          But not within an executive domain that is exclusive to Article II of the constitution – such as the White House.

          1. Thanks so much, Einstein, hon.

            I’m not asking.

            Please continue to read, however, I appreciate the patronage.

            And do get that all up in there, nice and tight, k?

  15. That we have come to this point, and I 100% blame the likes of the Clintons and the Obamas and their billionaire handlers, makes me weep for my country. That said, I will continue to do everything that is actually within my power to dethrone them, be it dollars or votes. The fact that Hollywood lost $500 billion due to their woke, leftist idiocy this year says a lot. A whole lot. That is an insane amount of money. Do not listen to the lies, and do the right thing anyway. Would be surprised personally, and I may be very wrong, that either Biden or Trump will be serious candidates in 2024. I think that time has passed, and heaven help us with what the leftist globalists throw at us next. if we do not speak up we are already lost. disavow yourselves of whatever you used to consider ‘normal’. It no longer applies, and it is going to be a SERIOUS battle to bring sanity and *real* equity back.

    1. James,
      I agree that Biden and Trump’s time have passed.
      DeSantis or Youngkin seem at this time to be the best GOP candidates.
      Newsom for the Democrats.
      But the fields for both parties were large and wide in 2016. Could see it again in 2024.

      ‘Normal.” I seem to recall a certain party saying they would bring back ‘normal,’ and the adults back in the room.
      There is nothing ‘normal,’ about $9 for a dozen eggs. Nothing normal about playing WWIII/nuclear chicken.
      The adults appear to be more of the duck and cover, than in the room.

        1. A match-up with someone who has not even declared his or her candidacy does not mean much. (I realize that Trump has not formally declared, but he has the name recognition of a former President and has made it clear that he is running.) When DeSantis declares, and gets the support of other Republicans, his popularity will rise. If he wins an early primary, he will become the front runner. In early 1976, Jimmy Carter stood at about 3% in the polls.

      1. “I agree that Biden and Trump’s time have passed.”

        Upstate, when the time comes the GOP nominee will be selected whether it be Trump, DeSantis or someone else. No matter who that is, it would be insanity to pick Biden or another leftist candidate.

        The left wants the right to fight between Trump and DeSantis. Some on the right are doing so which bolsters the left. Not dealing with the issue until the proper time makes the left expend resources fighting against Trump without laying a glove on DeSantis or anyone else. That makes your preferred candidate, who you push the lever for, stronger in the primary and even stronger in the national elections.

        We don’t have much say in the matter, so I will let the left keep spending money knocking Trump. The objective is to get rid of Biden and those that think like him.

  16. It blows my mind that a constitutional expert doesn’t understand the electoral process established in Article 2 Section 1 and the 12th amendment of the Constitution of the United States, and also does not understand Hamilton’s explanation provided in Federalist #68.

    News flash: You cannot declare your candidacy, win a parties nomination, choose a running mate, run for and win a States Electoral College Votes winner takes all by winning popular competitive partisan elections, and win the Presidency! Every candidate for the Presidency and Vice Presidency must be identified by an elector and be on the list of persons who received votes of electors and how many votes they received! Once the lists from each State are opened and compiled, then the only candidates that will be considered for the Presidency and Vice Presidency must be in the top 5 persons on the aggregate list, Article 2 Section 1, or the top 3 for President and the top 2 for the Vice President on their respective aggregate lists, 12th Amendment, to then be considered by the States for the States to choose a person by vote, 1 vote per State, and a majority of all the States is necessary to the choice.

    Now if you don’t recognize that what I wrote above comes directly from the Constitution of the United States, then that is the problem we face today. Because the only purpose of the electors is to make a list from their respective states, certify that everyone on that list meet the requirements established in Article 2 Section 1 of the Constitution of the United States, and transmit their State’s list to the seat of government directed to the President of the Senate. Then the States make the choice by vote, 1 vote per State, and a majority of all the States is necessary to the choice, and you can’t get any more democratic than that, and it’s a consensus choice of all the people and all the States, not a choice of party nominees by a plurality of voters who actually participate by voting, but of the most qualified persons in the country, as determined by the representatives of the people in their collective capacity, the electors!

    The electors make the ranked list, the states make the choice. I’ll say it again for anyone who still does not understand, the electors make the ranked list of the most qualified and suitable candidates, then the States make the choice from the top candidates on that aggregate list, and a majority of all the States is necessary to the choice.

    Now that we understand how to choose the President and Vice President, we need to talk about the roles and responsibilities of those government officials, because both only preside, they do not participate in decision making, and they definitely do not lead or govern!

    You genius’s system is coming apart at the seams, so much for Western and American Democracy, which isn’t democracy at all, at best it’s authoritarian cloaked in oligarchy, but it definitely isn’t any democratic or republican form of government, and a Republican Form of Government is required by Article 4 Section 4 of the Constitution of the United States, so you better get to work on your definitions, because you cannot justify what we are doing today complies with that directive if you don’t know what constitutes a democratic and republican form of government!

    The President and Vice President have no justification for having access to sensitive or confidential documents, much less take them to their offices or homes!

    1. Restricted-vote republic – that is what the Founders established.

      A restricted-vote republic under the dominion of the literal Constitution and Bill of Rights.

      Democracy, from Greece to Rome to the United States, always restricted the vote as in a republic.

      America added a brilliant Constitution that maximized freedom and severely limited and restricted government.

      Over time, voters through State legislatures, expanded the vote to the detriment of the country.

      Voters began voting in earnest for free stuff and the military/industrial complex got their hands in, obtaining massive amounts of military free stuff.

      The key, however, is the failure of the Supreme Court to support the literal, clear, meaning and intent of the Constitution, creating the vast, communist, American, welfare state.

      The inflection point emerged when the Supreme Court failed to immediately strike down “Crazy Abe” Lincoln’s denial of the very secession the Founders conducted against Britain.



      1 b(1): a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law

      1. Just because you can search the internet for a definition doesn’t make your comment fact! In fact, what is a “restricted vote republic”, it’s not a simple or compound republic, which are the only 2 republican forms of government, and neither restricts the vote, they actually expand the vote to include everyone through a representation of the people, because a democracy requires the participation of everyone, and as the population grows, it is impossible to assemble and operate a democracy, only discrete democracies can can operate in large population societies, and those democracies are assemblies of districts and each district has equal suffrage. That requires that there is no disparity between the districts, that’s why our discrete democracy was the first in history to assemble dissimilar districts as equals, but we had disparity between the districts in population and wealth, which required normalization using a common factor, the population of each district as a proportion of the aggregate population of the resulting Union. This can only be accomplished by the republican principle of per capita apportionment based upon a numeration, and forms an exact representation of the population, only smaller, “The People in their Collective Capacity” assembled as the most numerous legislative branch.

        When the most numerous legislative branch is assembled in a homogeneous district, that forms a simple republic, when districts join to form a larger republic, especially if there is disparity between the districts, that forms a compound republic, a simple republic can be assembled in a unicameral legislature, however a compound republic must be assembled in a bicameral legislature where the most numerous branch is assembled by the republican principle, and the equal branch is assembled as a discrete democracy, the most numerous legislative branch proposes, forms, and determines the question, and the equal branch concurs with the determination, this forms an iterative decision making system which requires the concurrence of the people in their collective capacity followed by the concurrence of the districts in their collective capacity. This is a collective governing system and as such has no individual leaders, lawmakers, or decision makers, and there also are no parties, as each district is a party to the agreement which forms the compound republic.

        For further under if this dynamic of governing systems, and the difference between democratic and republican forms of government, see Federalist #’s 9 & 10, “The Union as a Safeguard Against Domestic Faction and Insurrection”, Hamilton and Madison respectively, Federalist 62-66, “The Senate”, Madison, Jay, and Hamilton respectively, Federalist #’s 52-58, “The House of Representatives”, Madison, Federalist #67-77, “The Executive Departments, Hamilton, then you can go to Federalist #51, “ The Structure of the Government Must Furnish the Proper Checks and Balances Between the Different Departments”, Madison, because you will not understand his arguments for the legislative assembly must necessarily be the predominant governing institution and because of this power they separated the legislature into two coequal branches, but they also separated the government into two independent and simultaneously functioning governments assembled in congress.

        Searching the internet will not give you the answers of what constitutes a democracy or a republic, as they give definitions that are the opinions of the people of that time, when what is necessary is laws of assembly which are similar to the laws of mathematics and physics which cannot be changed no matter the passage of time or opinions.

  17. My gold and silver, jewelry, and valuable coins. My documents with sensitive information such as tax returns and medical records. Any firearms I may own. Who needs a safe? I just scatter them on the floor of my garage next to my old Honda Civic. But hey man, no worries, the garage is locked.

    1. Come on, man, it’s not like the documents, or the Stingray, was parked out on the street for the common buggers and theeves. No regrets. There’s no there there here.

      *otoh, over there .. .”Lavrov warns that the war between Russia and the West is no longer «hybrid» but a «near-real» conflict”

      1. No, not parked on street for common theives but in a place where an admitted drug addict lived, partied, entertained friends who were druggies and dealers at this place. This drug addict is suspected of selling influence to foreign countries so leaving classified govt documents around in open where he could easily read MIGHT tempt some druggies into selling them for drug money!! Now isn’t this a novel thought?!

      2. the war between Russia and the West is no longer «hybrid» but a «near-real» conflict.

        Yeah nuclear war and all but, but, but the real danger to the survival of the world is misinformation, dontcha know?

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