While Canada eviscerates the right to free speech and association, some are apparently holding firm on the privacy rights of accused felons to warn homeowners not to post videos of thefts.
In Quebec, the police are now warning citizens not to post their doorbell videos of package thieves because they are, in the words of the spokesmen, “presumed innocent.”
Notably, these are scenes captured in public and posted by homeowners who had packages stolen from their doorsteps.
For critics, it is a continuation of misplaced priorities and policies on crime including the statement of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau that “you can’t use a gun for self-protection in Canada. It’s not a right that you have..”
It is true that you can be sued for defamation. However, that ordinarily requires fault. The police are arguing that conduct filmed on your property and visible from the street is protected by privacy even if the person is guilty of the crime.
If you use an image for commercial benefits, photos in public can pose risks. In 1998 the Supreme Court of Canada upheld the decision awarding $2000 to Pascale Claude Aubry against Éditions Vice-Versa for publishing a photo of her sitting on public steps without her knowledge. However, the court stressed that it was sold for commercial gain and had no newsworthy purpose.
Of course, deterring citizens from posting these images has a direct benefit for the police. These videos go viral and highlight the lack of enforcement and deterrence. The question is whether this is about the privacy interests of the thieves or the political interests of the police. We have seen police charge citizens for years for filming them in public. Those cases have largely been rejected.
Neighbors often shared descriptions and videos of local crime. The police department is now suggesting that such images could now get them into hot water. Oh Canada.
As a dual Canadian and USA citizen, and having lived in the USA for 25 years, Canada has been on a 1-way descent for my entire life. Canda is lost.
Under Trudeau, Canada is a fully fascist state. Canadians are not allowed to broadcast this. Vote differently, people. Stand up for yourselves. Dynasties die when you kill them (and that is a metaphor, not a prescription). Find your spines and be free people, the worst thing you ever did was go hand in hand with Britain and by extension, the globalist agenda. Nobody can fix this but you, and the same is true of us. At least we are still permitted to voice dissent without being body checked and then arrested for it. If you do not see the inherent logic here, I do not know what else to say. Balls and spine. You need those in life, both of them.
I cannot believe people actually believe this.
You may not like Trudeau, but he isn’t Mussolini. Yikes.
America needs better history teachers…
And you need to wake the f up
Correct Trudeau is not musolini. Musollini was more competent. and Certainly would not have done anything this stupid.
Regardless fascism is
“Everything inside the state
nothing outside the state
nothing against the state. ”
Il Duce
Fits Trudeau. Fits most of the woke left.
Every time some one mentions the name Musollini, the first thing that comes to my mind is El Duce hanging upside down in Milan in 1945. 🙂
Well I suppose there could be an up side to repeating history.
Meh, that’s just Quebec being Quebec. A bunch of Frenchies who just want to do things ass-backwards. Trust me, Quebec doesn’t represent Canada… how many times have they tried to leave Canada?
Tabernac!
Gorfs.
No they won’t !!! A person who is photographed committing a crime (Becomes a person of interest) similar to a Celebrity or Entertainer and forfeits their Privacy !!!!
This is too funny.
The crook is on *your* property.
You have the right to post the video and the crook has no expectation of privacy. Even as a ‘John Doe’.
The presumption of innocent is a legal doctrine for the courts to show that the prosecution must prove guilt.
Not in the court of public opinion.
I wonder what would happen if someone went up on Trudeau’s porch and mooned him on his door cam.
Would the perp have the rights to privacy?
-G
I miss Sergeant Preston of the Yukon. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
Increasingly, it seems, we have a problem of the public sector not doing its core functions, esp in urban areas. Teachers don’t teach English, police officers refuse to investigate crime, prosecutors refuse to prosecute crimes, judges refuse to punish crime, some petty officials take the phones off the hook to avoid answering calls, many do not even show up to work or perform any work when they do show up. Civil service rules make it difficult to fire them and powerful unions protect them from control. Oh, and their compensation increases. Who invented this racket?
If a perp’s privacy right and the presumption of innocence are that strong, how can police ever investigate a crime?
Instead of fixing the problem, why not just go after the victim? So much more fun!
Just post a waiver on your front porch: this porch is under camera surveillance; by entering this viewspace, you consent to the use of your image to the extent necessary to protect the residents and their property.
“Oh Canada: Police Warn that Posting Images of Thieves May Violate Their Privacy Rights”
I wonder how many politicians are happy about that?
It bears noting that during the last election, a member of the Liberal Party (which is the current government) was caught on a door cam removing his opponent’s campaign material. He was elected to Parliament and was ultimately found to have contravened the Elections Act. It bears noting that this was in Alberta, not Quebec, and that there is no evidence that the federal government asked the cops in Quebec to convey this message (constitutionally, the feds have no authority to do so, and Quebec does not play well with federal intervention in provincial jurisdiction). Still, the optics are quite bad. And, even in Canada, truth is a defense to defamation.
It’s a legal and logical nightmare. How can it logically be against the law to post video of a person’s public conduct, especially IF you don’t accuse the person of being a “thief.”
The only standard of law that we are to go by in order to avoid getting into legal trouble, as far as we know, is this police officer’s comment that there is a presumption of innocence in Canada. Using that as the legal metric, wouldn’t it be the case that you haven’t broken any laws if you post unadulterated video with the comment that you would like to identify this person so that the police could investigate the circumstances? Include a universal caveat that it’s up to the police and the courts to determine what if any charges to bring, and that the person who took your package is presumed to be innocent.
Defamation is a civil claim, not a criminal claim.
recording your property is not defamation
Professor, it would be great to see a comparison of guns rights in the US v in Canada as a development of the Trudeau comments you mention. Thanks!
I haven’t caught any thieves on video, but, if I do, I won’t hesitate to post the video. I don’t live in Canada, but I expect police in the US will soon adopt the same policy.
Professor Turley,
You write: “The police are arguing that conduct filmed on your property and visible from the street is protected by privacy even if the person is guilty of the crime.”‘
That is not what the article you posted said. Do you have any other support for that dubious claim?
The article only warns Quebecois that, because Canada has a presumption of innocence, posting a picture could be a violation of private life. This, of course, would only be true in the event that the alleged porch pirate was not convicted.
There are plenty of reasons why this might be the case. The alleged porch pirate could have his case dismissed due to a procedural issue with the case, for example.
All of this is true in the US, as well. This seems to be a big nothingburger.
Additionally, this has nothing to do with Trudeau. This was a provincial police force. Would you blame Biden for the actions of Texas police?
Why continue to spread misinformation?
Really poor post.
Your claims are strange.
You do not have a right to privacy in public. While that is likely the law and constitution in Canada and the US more importantly it is just a fact driven by reality.
You can not create rights out of thin air. They have to actually work and not make life impossible or horibly difficult.
Further the presumption of innocence is with regard to GOVERNMENT.
There is no requirement that the victims of a crime must presume their perpitrators are innocent.
Even with respect to Govenrment – the presumption of innocence does not preclude the prosecution and police from using evidence of guilt.
This whole claim is logically absurd garbage. Take any aspect of it and try to apply it outside the porch and it falls apart.
The Police here are literally arguing that evidence of a crime is a violation of the criminals rights.
Pretty much everything you just wrote is incorrect.
If the alleged porch pirate is not convicted, he absolutely can pursue a civil claim against the homeowner, provided the other elements of the claim are met (i.e., the homeowner posts the video with the caption, THIEF).
Online videos falsely portraying someone are routinely the subject of defamation claims. If you don’t know what defamation is, try reading this summary: https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/defamation
Privacy (or a lack thereof) is completely irrelevant.
Sure — in PA squatters can take over your house and you have no recourse; across the country, thieves can steal and we are to look the other way; teachers can teach their own versions of our country’s founding; and lawyers can twist the Constitution to their political will. The list goes on and on. Are we to bend to the will of those who have only hate and personal gain as their moral compass? What will happen next? This is a boiling pot that will erupt and that is the most frightening part of this story.
Just playing the Devils Advocate….. While I totally agree with the article, here’s a thought….. With the viciousness of the social media culture, what’s to stop some nasty, vindictive person from posting a fake picture of a theft just to get back at some hated target?
Now, officially a police state.
Yes, we are Alice and we have gone down the rabbit hole. We had laughed at the primitives with their superstitions but look at us now – the once product of logic and reason, now held captive by woke religious fanaticism far more potent to disaster than any witch hunt of centuries ago. Are we in peril of losing that title homo sapien
They crossed the Rubicon a long time ago. Alas, O Canada
@whig
Indeed. It’s sad. But it’s another case of dynasty. They can stand up anytime they like. Protect our 1st and 2nd until the end of time, that is all these other nations do not have and all that prevents us from becoming them.